 Thank you very much for accepting my talk, for coming here. Also thank you very much for giving me the cable internet. I asked for it, but there is only cable, there is no socket to put it in here. So it will be maybe a bit slower than I expected and maybe I even have to show to you a bit less of what I intended. Okay, if you can imagine from the title of my work, subtitle of my work talk description and the images that are running there now, I'm going to talk about the early World Wide Web. And I have a lot to show, to share with you and I'm a bit afraid that there will be not enough time and then for the conclusion. So let me please make some statements right now. So what I'm... and the last drop. So final originally final statements. What I am going to show to you now has nothing to do with nostalgia. I am not showing to you out of the nostalgia. And I really believe that making web pages is one of the most conscious activities, medium specific conscious activities that computer users can do in this world. And also there is making a web page where historically you learn how things work. You write the code historically. Also making a web page meant to answer some existential questions. So it was let's say also a philosophical exercise in philosophy because you had to answer questions. Actually, who am I? What do I have to say to the world? And it's a bit what should my page be about? And this is a bit more than to answer the question of today like what are you doing today or who is on this photo? Of course you also can't underestimate such questions. Well, so you had to answer existential questions and if you find out that you don't actually have anything to say to this world about yourself, about anything, you can't even make a hate Backstreet Boy page or fan Backstreet Boy page, then you can still be a note in the network. So you can create a web page with the links to other web pages. So I'm going to talk now about the time that when web pages were made like this, like when users thought that they are responsible for providing links to search engines and not vice versa. And it's also time when users were opening source codes of other users' web pages and making their own. And this is how they learn and were making a worldwide web bigger, bigger and bigger. And this is, yeah, it's very important to keep this activity alive in order to resist the algorithmic communication and self-representation that we have today. And I also should mention that I'm very happy, in fact, about today's situation online because I see that there is already a second wave of interest to the early web. The first one was, let's say, six, seven years ago when there was interest to animate, it gives to under construction science, to all the visuals and, yeah, so, star backgrounds, so, to the aesthetics. And today we fortunately have initiatives where the fact of making the web page, the concept and the structure are put in front. I mean such initiatives as Neocities.org as Tilde Club and as Superglue it. The projects that motivate to go away from the timeline and to make your own web pages and to link to the web pages. I'm also somebody who, if you maybe remember my talk last year, I'm somebody who fights for the right of the users and insists that such category as computer users should exist, shouldn't disappear from the language and users should be educated about their noble role. And that's why, no, not that's why, sorry, I also want to mention that last year when Julian Assange said system administrators of the world unite, it was quite an excluding appeal. And this year, Applebaum actually corrected it and said that, yeah, community should unite. And I think that also this appeal should be extended even more and these are computer users who should unite. But for this, computer users again should be educated and remember that using something, it is a means active position. Being computer user means to bring system in action. And this is something what, yeah, it had to be revoked that we have to come back to this 30 years ago old ideas. Well, and that's why I'm showing to you what I'm showing to you now because if we talk about the users and power of the users, we can't skip these pages in the history of the internet, of the web and of the computer users. So having now said that, let me please greet you properly. Okay, what you've just seen now, it is a trailer for a longer film which is called Skywriting. And this film features the web pages from the JCCIS archive that uses this well-complained on the top of it. There, what you see just now here, some of them, the whole interface would look like this. So they're part of the huge database we have at this moment. And we are myself and Dragon Espen sheet, former computer musician, one part of Bodenständig 2000 band. He's also a net artist and he is at this moment a digital conservator in Rhysome, New York. We together are JCCIS Research Institute and we make one terabyte of kilobyte H project. Keep it alive. We have a stamp. And all this, I should say now, this is a bit like the end of the story because it is, what, it is 2014. And when I started, I would like now to go a bit back in time to go to 1995, when I started to work with the World Wide Web and it looked like this or like that. This is also a snapshot from that time. Yeah, and I started to make things at that time that I wanted to look quite different from this bright, loud and dynamic in another sense of the World Wide Web. So I created the projects that were different and it was already the end of the 90s. Or let's say, yeah, it was the end of the 90s when I started to teach internet design and net art. And this was when I realized that actually pages that I was trying to forget in my work that I tried to distance from what I wanted to be different, they just disappear from the web. It was around 2000 when it became completely clear that the amateur culture, the early culture of the web is removed from the web. And since that time I started to make works that are actually celebrating this early web culture. Just some examples, but to show this one I have to go to the virtual machine, to Windows, and even to start an explorer. This work is from 2004 and it only made from the found gifts, gifts from the free collections of gifts. And there would be more and more revealed. And another important thing at that time was for Dragon and Me was that this work is for the browser and it also not only celebrates animated gifts, but it also celebrates browser and scroll bar. You know, it's 2004, but the war on scroll bar already started at that time. Now it's almost the end, but we still sometimes can see it. Now I have to wait for the right bit. The work is called gravity. Okay, what's that? Yeah, now I can close the virtual machine and come back to my system. The work from the same time, which goes in the same direction, is called midnight. And there we wanted to bring back the navigation elements from the early web that were at this moment substituted by one omnipresent slide bar, which we know from Google Maps. It's again almost 10 years old project, so at that time slide bar looked like this. So you can't really, it's not functional, but when you start to use it, you reveal all these tiny graphics that early web users created, stole, found, whatever, because they didn't like what interface designers were providing. They didn't believe in back and forward buttons of the browser, and they wanted to have their own structure of their own navigation. Let's put it like this. Yeah, so after many, many years of appropriating and bringing to the, in front of the early web culture, I decided to become a GIF model myself, so I wanted to give back to the community. I wanted, it's 2005, and I wanted to be used on the web pages, believing that people were still making their web pages. This small window here is my showroom of that time, so I showed to you here that I am a perfect loop and that I will look good on every background. So use me on the web pages. And this is, I have this, a lot of my deeds documented, and there is a YouTube channel here where I document where I finally found myself, on what pages I was used, and it's very satisfying. Yeah, this is, and if we talk about the history, please remember that this is what animated GIF is. It is used not to be posted somewhere. It's not to be, to make a loop of your favorite film. The role was to be, to appear on another web page. And when you would make your own GIF, you would make it in a way that others would be able to use it. Just a moment, if we're still by, I'll teleport it, it's in connection. Yeah, I will go here, shortly, this is where all my projects could be found. And yeah, I'm making the timelines also of animated GIFs, so they're following the history. This, maybe anybody here ever used this lady on their web page. She is a bit strange, yeah? This, you can't really move legs like this. But maybe this was the reason why it was used on so, so many web pages around 1996. And then here, what we have here is the next period in the history. It's around 2004, 2006. Then GIFs became much, much bigger, glittering and static. This was the main thing, yeah? And this is already my space stuff. This is the period then GIFs started new wave of the interest. They were very aesthetically pleasing, perfect loops at that moment, but it would never be transparency, because it would be, at this time it's already about just showing GIFs to each other, not using them on the web pages. And this is very specific for today's moment, the GIF which has this moment of, it's not perfect loop, yeah? It starts again and again. And on one hand, maybe it comes from, no, actually the idea that it doesn't matter at this moment. It's just a trend at this particular time. There is also an alternative history. I can show to you here. This is my idol, maybe you know her, and this is again, this is around 2004. This is having your favorite film moments looped. Yeah, and this is something, what we have now, something important, so-called GIFs with sound. Everything what I do is of course very subjective, yeah? You can make your own timelines, but you can also spread mine. So I will continue, but to show to you, so what was happening before one terabyte project. This is our effort to recreate Facebook, Google+, and YouTube, as if they were made in 2000, as if they were made in 1997 and not in 2004. This is YouTube. There is also Pinterest. And yeah, so it was, you know, now I say exactly about 1997, because it's important for me to also to emphasize it right now that we can't just talk about the 90s as some web style. Every year, almost every half a year, there was something different happening. And for example, 1997, it's appearance of Netscape communicator, and this is when you could already, this was already the beginning of something what would end up as social networks and such hosting services. So web as for applications, not for the web pages. Yeah, and talking about the styles. When I showed you screenshots like this, yeah? This, like that, something like this again, here. You would say, yeah, exactly. This is the classic appearance of the web of the 90s. But here I want to confront you with my timeline of the design styles of that time and to tell you that usually we only see this vernacular web as a dominant style of that time and forget about something what I called profdoctor, that was before this crazy amateur web, before something what was called JVC is 96 after in design circles. And also the designers period that started in 1997, the first attempts. And this profdoctor, it is an important phenomena. So it's, let's say 1993, the first web browser, it's Mosaic, and these are pages that were made usually at the universities. And this profdoctor thing, this is, it comes from, it was my trick to show it to the students. Also, like around 10 years ago this trick worked. If I would type in search engine profdoctor, it would deliver to me many pages that were made around 93, or that still look like in 1993. Yeah, because it's very difficult to catch this content. And it's also, it's time before way back machine, before internet archive. Now it is just, it's very actual page. It's my favorite profdoctor, just shown in the Mosaic browser. Important thing about this period also, the attitude to the design. The idea that it's not me who is designing the web page for everybody else, but it is me who is just providing everything as a default. And I then as end user, I decide how all the internet should look for me. So I decide what is my link colors for everything, what is color of the text, what is color of the background. So these are some pages that follow this profdoctor style, and these are also pages of profdoctors. And this is this look. This is the classic look. And then the work started, you can also see how things were developing. You see here is the background edit. So one step away from semantics, from the markup style to the wildness, that then in the end brings us to the situation that also astrophysics start to make pages like this. And then this armature vernacular web starts to form, and then we don't have to follow any more pages of academics, but we can go back to Jerry City's and enjoy it there. So this look of the 1996. Welcome all hackers. What's important to remember about Jerry City's when we talk about it, that it was a place that you were not supposed to go, actually. And at that time I also, if somebody would send to me a link to Jerry City's, I wouldn't dare to try it, because it was supposed that there is nothing valuable there at all. And I have all these books about web design tips of that time. And imagine none of these books uses Jerry City's even as a bad example. There is only one. Once it appears in web pages that suck. Of course maybe you know, but imagine only one example from the Jerry City's. Though today we see Jerry City's as an essence of everything what could go wrong with the web design. So it's a very special place, but too shortly the history, it was founded in 1995. In 1994 it became usable and very popular around 1995-96. Yahoo bought it in 1999 in the moment that when it was the third most visited web page on the web after AOL and Yahoo itself. And in 2009 Yahoo killed Jerry City's. The screenshot what you see here now, it comes from 1999. It's when Yahoo bought Jerry City's. It's half a year later. Then Yahoo introduced their terms of services and then finally users noticed that things changed. And there was this paragraph 8 where Yahoo said that all your pictures belong to us. And there was a lot of angry pages and a lot of people left at that moment in Jerry City's. So in 2009 Yahoo closed Jerry City's because it's already 2009. Almost everybody is on Facebook and Yahoo didn't know what to do with this at all. And then Archive Team made a great effort and in this half a year what Yahoo gave to the users to rescue their files, Archive Team actually grabbed as much as possible of the Jerry City's. And they released it as a torrent, one terabyte torrent. That's why our project is called one terabyte of kilobyte age. On the 31st of October 2010, so one year later when it was made, we started to download it. It took us several months of course to download it because there was only one cedar and it is one terabyte. Then there were months of rebuilding the city, the cities, the neighborhoods because all this one terabyte, it was not just Jerry City's sketch you can open all this and enjoy. But this is what TARS made by many, many different people. You had to put them together. You have to fight the sim link cancer. You have to also deal with a lot of problems with upper keys, low keys. So in the end, it's of course an effort of Dragon mostly, in the end we got now 395 profiles of the early web pages. Nobody knows how much is it of what was actually there ever. There is no statistics and Yahoo has no idea about anything of course. Apart from just having these screenshots at our archive, there is a beautiful, or how Dragon calls it, it is in the city's screenshot factory. I will not explain to you now how it works, but you already have seen what comes in the end. There is a snapshot of the web page that appears in the browser that is adequate for that particular moment of time. There is then these screenshots because we want to feed the internet with its history as much as possible. It comes to Tumblr. Every 20 minutes there is a new screenshot from our archive. So they are now at this moment. Everybody can enjoy it. But screenshots are only screenshots of course. It is amazing, a very rich content, but you can imagine when you look at this page something is missing of course. In fact it should look like this. But to make a video snapshot of the page it is a different size of the file. It is a much longer time you need for this. So the Tumblr is at this moment is feed only with the static screenshots. We have still material for 12 more years to feed the Tumblr. But you maybe already know Yahoo Bot Tumblr. We don't know how much time we still have. Or what should we, maybe archive team should already grab the Tumblr with everything we are posting there. What is the chronology? We started with the oldest updated screenshot. So this one is the first one in our archive. It only means that it is the first one in our archive. It says a lot about the history. But from what was rescued? This page was the oldest. So it was updated in 1995, last updated in 1995. And this is how we go further in the history. So at this moment on Tumblr, we are in August 1999. And it's already dot com. If you remember such or use such dirty words. But an interesting thing with the way with GeoCities that you can see how time sort of was frozen there. It's 99, but on GeoCities it's always 96. This is the amazing thing about it. But this screenshot is from 1995. And here I can for the first time maybe mention this, what was in subtitle of my talk. You see that this page is made for something different as 800 to 600. At this moment we make screenshots for 800-600. But this one is obviously for 640 to 480. Just because of the size of the lines. What else do we know here? What are the historically important moments? The Kelvin picture of Kelvin. You know when you look at GeoCities, you can think that it was filled with the fence of Kelvin and Hobbits. But it's not really like this. The thing is that GeoCities provided the clip art. There were a lot of flags that you were supposed to use on this place to represent particular country, Germany, Russia or whatever. And there was a spoke from Star Trek. And there was Kelvin. So if you didn't scan your own picture yet, you would probably use the Kelvin. But it is a very early web pages. But still there is a mess of Kelvin's in the GeoCities archive. Yeah, another background. But you see he is here. And the structure is still there. What is quite a touching moment, I would say here, what I was mentioning before. This comes from the template. Links to the other sites on the web. It was there from the very beginning. It's sort of, of course, you could remove it. But it also, you were motivated to fill it. So web page without links to other pages. It's sort of a useless thing. Wait a moment. Yeah. What I wanted to say. Here again, this page, maybe it's not so clear. But it's again, it's made for 640. And what was significant for that time, you could see a lot that people were still talking about the cyberspace. Not about not so much welcome to my web page, not welcome to my electronic office, but welcome to my corner of cyberspace or welcome to my cybercom. There was 94, 95. These are still time that people refer to this place as place somewhere else. And they make it for 640 without giving other opportunities. This is already from later. Yeah, these choices that designers had to make and users had to make for themselves. Or here you can even more later, but and come screens are getting bigger. And there is this choice, but it was not there at that moment. But what you can see, yeah, this is now where you can see it in a classic way, right? This is 640. And this is what we see now. And when I open this page now on my screen, I see the gentleman like an infinity of the gentleman in outer space. Or here, yeah. Yeah, maybe you can't see it here, but it's the same. It is the picture that didn't have to be dialed. Yeah, the known motif, but also it's adjusted for 640. This one is very beautiful. All the cockpit to fly with this web page to the cyberspace is built here. Looked terrible already around 96. Or not terrible, but maybe, yeah. In fact, it's how it had to grow. But the original plan was that it's like this. Media sound is of course in background. That's why I make with my mobile phone, I make the videos of these websites and there is my channel on Vine. So you can enjoy it there as well. Yeah, and just think please that this, yeah, what is here, maybe you can see it. Hello, cyber visitor is said there. So, and this is, yeah, this is still the time that you refer to cyberspace. And this is actually not because you are noob and you don't know how cyberspace looks. But because it's time when cyberspace got its look for everybody. And this look was the outer space background with underlying words on it. If it's Netscape, these words were in blue. And this was the, yeah, when John Perry Barlow was writing his declaration of independence of cyberspace, the cyberspace looked like this. And this is important to remember, yeah, such things, not to underestimate. Till this time, I almost only showed to you the screenshot in Made in Netscape. And it was a difficult moment for us earlier this year when we had to switch to Explorer. Because it was, yeah, Netscape is of course was more, you know, it was more attracting more attention and it looked like really like the past. Yeah, because Explorer, yeah, here it looks like an old Explorer but everybody knows that it's still there. It is an actual thing. But Netscape was very pleasant to look at. But we couldn't ignore any more that in 1999, actually there was almost no Netscape. And with the page what I showed to you now, this is the first, the web page that was last updated on 18th of March 1999. That's why it's the day of release of Explorer 5. And this is when we changed and now stream screenshots in Explorer, unfortunately. But in the archive you can always see in both. By the way about archive, I didn't mention. This is what I see. I use the one terabyte as my interface to the archive. If I would go now with Chrome. So here I don't have an add-on. Here I don't have proxy. I would see what you see. And here I have seen this actual page. For me, GeoCities is up. I go online to go offline. Yeah, thank you. There is something that can be of interest for you. There are also copies, but they're not as full as ours. You can access through our... There is also always a URL. So when you know the URL, you can go to... You can check this URL on GeoCities, on O-Cities and GeoCities. They also have copies. So not so structured as ours, and a lot of things are missing, but still this is where you can see a lot of the past. There was something about Farny here, about these elements, what I wanted to show to make a bridge from here. Maybe anybody used in this room ever used this bar in the web page. Somebody ever seen it? So to show you some pages, I tag these pages in our archive nightmare after this page, because it is also my personal nightmare. They are all ruins with these web pages, and they come from the certain period from 1997, and this is when Intel tried to make the template for making web pages. They tried to make the side builder, and they introduced these crazy elements, these bars and dripping, how it's called, and people were trying to make something out of it, but it never worked, and then there was already Yahoo, and Yahoo introduced their own side builder, and this is how it all went. So when I go to the archive, I also see the elements, like this duff, but you probably know the welcome skull used on so many welcome pages to invite you to enter. So it's also possible in the archive, it's possible not only to tag pages, but to tag elements of the pages. A lot of beautiful stuff. It's really overwhelming. This is, by the way, here what you see now, it is the most used graphic on GeoCities. Maybe I would better have to announce it on Valentine's Day. Yeah, but I just said it now. So after the counter and after the logo of GeoCities, this is the most used graphic. In fact, this is not so important for us, these statistics, and we are very careful not to go with the big data approach to all this, and try to make everything with our own eyes. Sometimes I'm happy to be able to involve my students. For example, this is our P-Man research, what we just finished. It's not such a famous graphic, but there are almost 800 of them on the GeoCities. Here is, with all his glory. And the great thing about this graphic is that it was always used in connection with another graphic. So this is how people were showing the disagreement or disgust about something or somebody. And, yeah, sort of a dislike button, you can also say. And finally, we could find out all this, we have more than 700 results of what users were peeing on. Yeah, what did they hate? And, yeah, they're politicians, they're handsome, of course. There are a lot of sport teams and sports symbolics. Surprisingly, I thought that it would be GeoCities, that would be the most people on the thing, but it is Ford, yeah? Whatever you can. Yeah, there is now an installation we built out of it. We made him prominent and put all this on the monitor here, and it can be, yeah, very relieving in the end of the day, too. Yeah, to get another role as a researcher. Coming now, most closer to the end, I would like to say, yeah, what else were looking for? What images or particular images were used for? What was the tendencies? Not so much who made the image or how often they were used. And also the elements of the choices what early web makers had to make and the end users had to make. For example, here there is this thing, you can decide to go high-fi or low-fi. So not resolution, but high-fi and low-fi. And this high-fi, it is something for the future. Low-fi, there is a content here about this band. But this high-fi on the page that was last updated in 1996 means that somebody believes that in some weeks maybe that it will be possible to have videos there, to listen to the music. And it is prepared for it, but nothing happens. So this is the choice. I remember myself even leaving this choice to something for the future. Okay, not possible now, but in some weeks. Another greatest choice what we all had to make at this time and to say frames or no frames. And there is a culture around this and hate graphics and love graphics and how they all appear. And if you can see here, okay, now you have a choice. The choices we could make at that time and we gladly made. Something else what I am very careful about and tried to make something meaningful out of it are the messages where people promise that soon there will be something. It is quite, you know, it's a little bit or very difficult thing because you know that these are dead pages. But you all the time get, still now in 1999, you get this promise just wait for two weeks or next week or as soon as school starts the opposite, soon school will be over and I will have time. So this sometimes it's a prominent bold message. Sometimes it's more narrative and this is another great thing that people really narrate and tell the stories and explain why they make pages and why it's not good yet and how everything will change when they get scanner. And at the same time there is another wave of messages where people say no more. There will be no page. And these processes they go in the parallel to each other in the opposite direction. Sometimes there is a reason given why somebody is not updating the page anymore. Mostly these are very optimistic in fact pages where people say that because we got a new domain, because we got a new location, we moved, there is new life starts. Also the tragedy here is that it's almost never that you would follow this link and there would be something. They also don't exist anymore. Yeah, there are a lot of hate messages and at the same time a lot of very happy and beginning of the new life or somebody is moving to Angel Fire and thinks that now things will be great. Or tripod, yeah, of course. They offer not 11 megabytes but 20 megabytes. I am moving to tripod. So things like this. We are at this moment we are two people who are mostly doing this but finally we were also joined by Chinese researcher of Chinese digital folklore and he is now going through the Chinese web pages. So pages in Chinese language. This is important for us. We for sure need somebody who would go into Spanish and Portuguese web pages. We are in general interested to open the interface for those who want to research this content to publish their ideas. And now, for example, yeah, there are a lot of things, a lot of fan pages, a lot of hate pages. There are genealogy pages, cleanse, yeah, this is very important. So the content which it wouldn't be right that a person, one person or even two people just go through this. And for example, we shouldn't forget, yeah, as J.C. Hertz wrote surfing on the internet in 1994, actually before Geocities, that the net isn't just a scientific research tool, it's an outlet for gorgeous women trapped in the bodies of male computer programmers. And one should say that Geocities was really an outlet for cross dresses, especially the West Hollywood neighborhood. Yeah, Geocities were about neighborhoods. And there are pages that we really, a lot of them, quite in a good state. We think what to do with them because they have to be analyzed, they don't have to be exposed, but it should be somebody with experience in queer culture and also experience in early web culture to analyze them and to make sense out of it. I show to you this page now because if you would scroll down there, you would see that there is a message left on this page to the future generation. So this page was supposed to be shown to you. So if you have an ideas how you could contribute to Geocities archive to one terabyte of kilobyte age research, we would be happy to listen to you to listen to you. Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks for the great talk. I founded myself very interesting and very animatic. And we have plenty of time for questions and I already see there is one from the Signal Agile. Do I have audio here? So are you aware of pages which are not in these archives and did you cooperate with other archive efforts to get the most complete set? Can you even estimate how many pages are missing? No, we can't estimate how many pages are missing. Yeah, no, we can't. There is a lot of attempt to merge them. It's in the state that I can't say how many. So you can't give a percentage? No, we can't say, but we were very curious ourselves but we didn't find the answer to this question. So next microphone, please. I'm going to need therapy after this and there's a reason for that. I had to look up in my old resume. I was the chief network engineer for the parent company of Geocities and I spent many an hour both originally in Beverly Hills which is why there was a connection to West Hollywood and then when they moved to Santa Monica. So I've just got a couple of things I'll share with you. The systems were horrible. So that's the first thing to keep in mind. Sun Solaris, the first thing I did was put HTTP 1.4 pre-forking web server on there if you can think back to what happened before that. To get these bits out to the rest of the world was an absolute fight. Geocities was growing. We were rack and stacking some Sun 10s then Sun 20s and finally bigger machines during 96. We blew out 100 megs of FIDI connection out of Barnett in the Stanford University Colo which is where the servers were and this was just a continuous fight. The users were coming in in the mid-96. We had to make database changes and the light but I'm blown away by what you've done and I'm so sad that I'm saying here going I mean I know people to contact but there's no hope that anybody's got an archive from back then. Just nothing. I don't think anybody from the founders or from the original engineers has got like a copy of original stuff anymore but you just brought this all back. But can you bring to us back this moment in 1999 then Yahoo bought her? No, because I was looking at the dates and this is very finite. This was 96 for me, only 96. Wow, the best year for everybody. Next question please. Yes, thank you for your amazing talk and your amazing work and please continue to do so. I was wondering are you also looking at saving all those bits of crappy JavaScript code that ran on the back of all these pages in order to make blink work and all that stuff? Richard Stallman sent you here to ask me about it. We tried to grab as much as possible. I was now so shocked when you said JavaScript. But what was your, if scripts are included or if templates are... Yeah, are you saving them, stacking them up because I really believe that's part of that culture as well where you try to make stuff moving or whatever, blinking, crazy colors. There is not so much actually made with JavaScript though. Yeah, they're appearing more and more things but this is stored. If it was on the web page, it is stored. Or what do you mean? You mean Java probably? No, I definitely mean JavaScript. I'm just looking back at the time when I, and I guess a lot of people here started learning computer science basically like you said, the first steps into programming. And for me it was because I made this basic website. I don't even know where I hosted it and step by step you want more and more and that's how you find out. So I was wondering if there's any place to go and look back at the stuff. No, you can go back as always by the way back machine. But for this you have to know where to go. This is the trouble with Java cities. Yeah, but a lot of these builders and the scripts they are there. And sometimes I film something and they show something online and it is actually something very advanced. One could think that you only can make it with HTML5 but then it appears that this was just how things were made in 96 also with some lines of code. Thank you. So there's another question from the internet. So have you thought about the whole right to be forgotten issue regarding your archive page? Every... I look at 72, minimum at 72 old pages a day. And it's always... Every time if I want to publish something or to go deeper or to reveal something what is behind 800 to 600 I am thinking twice about it. And of course it is always this... Yeah, but there should be something to remember. I see my role in this project or we see our role as somebody who now will repair and stack as much as possible. You have as much as possible and these other questions they should be the second. Otherwise we don't know what to forget. There would be nothing to forget if there is nothing left. I can go on. There's no other question. So do you have anyone looking at the audio content of the archives? So the midis and all the way files or the embedded sounds in the pages? This is what is all this... My Vine channel. I started on Vine, the GeoCities tag because what we... Yeah, it's not there. Not really working. But yeah, we miss midi sound very much. So what's the most popular midi sound? The most popular midi sound. Now it's not from the statistics, but what I notice this is a theme from X-Files. Of course, yeah. It appears on science fiction web pages. It appears in West Hollywood on children web pages. It's everywhere. Are there any other questions? Yeah, I have a question. Are you interested in people donating the old web pages because I'm like a data hoarder and I saved everything I ever did on the Internet. And so maybe others did too and would send you the various crappy starts of the Internet. Yes, please. So it's offline, but you saved it. Yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, and this is the GeoCities web page? I guess tripod. Yeah, this is precious. This tripod is such a mess. Yeah, and with GeoCities there is still luck, but with a tripod you wouldn't know what to do with it. And maybe you know more recent case, Hives. Yeah, Hives, it's a social network in Holland. Yeah, that was last year it was closed and their users only got two weeks to rescue their files. And there are 25 terabytes of data. That was saved. But how to make sense out of it, nobody knows yet. But they are, yeah, at Internet Archive they are stored. Another question from the Internet. So do you know anything about the popularity of CGI and friends? So yeah, basically, common gateway interface, so not computer graphics. I don't really understand that. So how many pages use CGI code, for example, for a counter or something? Oh, the counter. Now I don't have statistics. It's easy to find out, actually. But it is, let's say it's almost everywhere and there is always, by GeoCities, by Yahoo, there was always one pixel beacon that was always there. And starting from Yahoo Times, the counter was, by default, there. Some removed it, some did not. But we have a developer here. Next, microphone three, please. Yeah, okay, so at the beginning of the talk you talked about this professionalization of the web and that GeoCities don't exist anymore. So do you think we should bring back this amateur web creation again? You talked about GeoCities, like a new project that brings back GeoCities. What is your thought about the current state of amateur web creation? Is it bad? And you also talk about this, that we use Facebook instead. It's not really a creative, engaging activity. So what is the alternative? How do we bring back this amateur age of the web? It is developing in two ways, actually. You can see one about the aesthetics, let's say so-called low digital aesthetics. So these are people just having fun with graphics, having fun with templates given to them. Do you know blingy.com? Yeah. Yeah, but maybe not many know here, blingy.com. This is where you can make animated graphics. You can make them glitter. You can apply a lot of stamps on it and then use them in comments or anywhere. Interestingly, I mentioned it. Usually it's mentioned as the most bad taste thing you can do. But I observed this service for many, many years and it's amazing how it develops in a very transparent one. You always can see who made what stamp, who contributed with what to the system. You can see the layers and use the layers of everything. It's almost like opening in former times a source code of the page and being able to make your own page. But this is, of course, all used to create some cheesy, glittering graphics. So maybe the down part of it. And the last note. But I mentioned Neocities. They don't try to make Geocities. They just call themselves like this. They want to distance from this style. But they wanted people to make web pages without templates. And also I mentioned till the club. And till the meaning that you get there. You're the user on the system. You get the till in front of your name. But not only. Again, you can make your pages without templates there. And you are motivated to make webbrings. So to link to each other. And this is quite, I would say, quite a precious thing to start to do again. Yeah. Thanks. Good. So we ran out of time. Thanks for everybody for listening. Thank you very much.