 Even not OS at all. All right, so I've been told that you should never start a presentation by saying your name and the name of your session, your title. That you should try to do something, say something, to grab ahold of the audience. Don't worry, I'm not going to physically grab. I've been told that that's not what I supposed to do. But something that gets your attention. So do you feel grabbed? I'm not going to do a little quiz later on after the session, and anybody can tell me who said this gets a drink from me. Yeah, everybody's going to try to Google that, right? Well, there we go. I didn't start with my name. So there we go. So hi, everybody. Thank you so much for coming. My name is Ronnie Rios. I'm a senior consulting engineer at FileMaker. Today's session is called The 10-Hour Project. And I think before we get started, I wanted to say not what the session is about, but really what it's not about. So I want to do some clarifications here. The first thing is this is not about saying that FileMaker is not good for large projects. This is not about saying that FileMaker is only good for small projects. It's not about saying that we're only focusing on citizen developers and that the professional developer is not important to us. If you went to the keynote and the FBA keynotes as well, that's completely the opposite. And this actually, the session is really about that, about the professional developer and what can be done in really short cycle development engagements. What can be done really with that? And FileMaker being an extremely well-suited tool for that type of methodology of creating something, doing something very, very small, starting very small with something useful and valuable for the customer and also to the developer and then iterating and creating and expanding that in order to meet all the needs that the customer really wants instead of doing one large lump sum of everything. So I'm supposed to start talking to you about who I am and establishing credibility on that stuff. So I'll just put that on the screen. That's supposed to tell you that I know what I'm talking about, but it doesn't really matter. On the personal level, yo hablo español. De hecho hablo mejor el español que el inglés. And I love coffee and roller coasters. Really, really. So if you're trying to find me and you can't find me here around, I'm probably in a coffee shop or screaming like a little boy on a roller coaster here in Vegas. So there you go. So I want to start with two quotes that I just kind of grabbed my attention a few months ago. These two quotes, and these are from real customers. And I think that they tell a story. There's something behind it. And they're really powerful. They come from real customers who have engaged with professional developers and were amazed by what they received, what came back in a very, very short amount of time. So let me tell you a little bit about how this session got inspired, or what inspired me to do this. Well, last year, with the concept that FileMaker is it's an amazing platform for creating solutions and a very short amount of time. FileMaker really is a rapid development platform. And we believe in that. We believe that people can get a lot out of the platform in a very short amount of time. But a lot of people are not used to the development process. They're not professional developers, and they need to engage with professional developers, but they don't understand what that process looks like. So we went out and we are holding on by Apple. So we took that partnership with Apple and went to Apple retail stores and partnered up with them. And came up with this. It's called the Idea to iPad campaign. And what we did is that we talked to Apple retail, talked to their business team. They got in touch with some select customers, got them all in a room, and we got some of our FBA Platinum members sit down with those customers and talk. Look at their needs. Look at what they want to accomplish. And really, if the customer development was the right choice for them. And these FBAs volunteer 10 hours of their work talking with these customers and doing consulting work for them for 10 hours. And at the end of this, these engagement ones, they repair them up. They delivered something to them. And it was really powerful to see the reaction of these customers when they saw finally their ideas, their visions materialized on a device, on an iPad and see things that actually worked and reacted and really did what they thought. Something that they probably wrote down in a napkin once, but was really there on this functioning. So we took it a step further, and we created the Idea to iPad bundle. And this is really amazing. This is the first time we've ever done it. We partnered with Apple and created SQ, one SQ, sold only exclusively at Apple retail stores that bundled several things together. One of them had all the software that customers needed to get started with their ideas, right? Include everything they needed, the license for Fomica Server, Fomica Pro, and Fomica Pro Advance. But also, we put some skin in the game in addition to that, we put one of our employees to help them, to hand-hold them through this entire process that we're about to embark them and call them the Customer Success Manager. And along with that, we also had FBA partners who put 10 hours of consulting work towards these customers. And at the end of these 10 hours, they would deliver something to the customer. We could call it whatever you want, mock up a prototype, a functioning prototype, but that translated once again the vision that these customers had in their heads and put it here on a device. So this is deliverable, and all of this for $2,000. So the customers had some skin in the game, they got some skin in the game, they put something down, and they got something at the end. And I have to tell you, the results were just really amazing. I was just really amazed at the result that we saw, the reaction of customers as they saw things come alive for them. And a lot of these, there were just mock-ups, things that just showed what they were thinking about in prototypes. But what really struck me was that some of these deliverables actually worked, and I don't mean like they were the finished product that you would expect, but they worked. Customers could take it back to their office, plug it in, and use it. Instantly, have value returned out of that. And I thought, well, that's amazing. How can somebody deliver something usable in 10 hours? So what I did was that, I made a few calls. I was unbelievable. So I talked with a lot of the FBA partners out in the community, and these are just some of them. I couldn't fit all of them, there's not enough space. And I asked them questions. A lot of them are here in the audience and they won't let me lie. I asked them, what's this going on? How is this possibly delivering these projects in 10 hours, something that's usable, something that delivers value to the customer right away? And then I was surprised to hear that. A lot of them said, yeah, that's the way we work. That's the way we work. We do that. We deliver something. It's usable. This customer gets to the office, plugs it in, and we'll help them with that. And then we start adding more stuff to that. And along several years, a long time, several years, we've got customers that have been with us for five years. And there's a story going around from one of the FBAs that he's built seven digits to one customer over five years, and he's very small chunks of hours. So this got me thinking, well, this has got to be something new. So I went out and tried to describe this and tried to define this, and found out that this is not limited to the FileMaker community. It's really a concept that's going on way beyond and the entire development community, beyond the FileMaker. These are things, these are concepts that IBM is trying to teach their development community to do, to get something small working under the hands of the customer and iterate and continue working on it to add more things to it. So I tried to define that. I tried to say, well, what do we call that? How do we describe this thing and put it into words? So I asked, there are these calls, I started asking them, well, what do you call that? When you're talking to the customer, what do you call it? What is it? And I heard the same, you know, we've got the same usual suspects, right? I got her mock-up come up. The problem with the mock-up, right, if you hear the word mock-up and tell that to a customer, the customer immediately thinks, well, this is something that doesn't work, right? This is a demo. This is to show me something, an idea, a concept, and we're going to throw this away when we're done. So that didn't fall into what I was looking for, what I was proceeding, what was happening here in the community. I heard of prototype to be thrown around, right, and working prototype, and functioning prototype, and things like that. But again, the problem with saying prototype, the prototype is something that you do to test a concept, right, to see if something really worked. If it would work that way, we'll test a process and see if that works. And if it doesn't, then we'll scrap that and we'll do something else. And again, this wasn't exactly what I was observing, right, and what developers were telling me was happening. The other term I heard, which is really interesting, and I've been talking with several of the FBAs, and yesterday Marty from Gearbox, I don't know if you see her, we're talking about this and got into the same concept of the minimal viable product, right? And this is a really interesting concept, which has been used in the last few years, made famous by certain concepts like the Lean startup and things like that, agile methodologies, that I also have an issue with their definition. Now, the most reliable definition, if you will, is this one, right, by one of the proponents and one of the guys who really made this concept famous. The thing behind the MVP, the core concept of it, is really to deliver something with the minimum amount of features that allows you, as a product developer, to validate the knowledge, the concept from the customer. The idea of it, the purpose is to learn from the customer and see if your idea has any wheels, it has legs, right? The thing is that the MVP can be something, you know, could be a software piece, but it could also be something that you just jot down on an app and showed it to somebody and say, hey, would this work, do you get excited by this? They say no, then there's your answer. But in the world of software development, MVP has come to mean something else, is I am going to develop something. I'm going to put something together that has the minimum requirements that the customer will be, that's enough for the customer. The customer is to be happy enough to work with this, would start off with this, and it should take me the least amount of time. And that was OK, but then again, it goes back to what the customer feels OK with, right? Customers can give me a laundry list and I'm going to try to meet those and try to figure out which is the least amount of those things that I can put together to give to the customer and the time frame. It should be short, but there's no limitation there. But then again, this wasn't exactly what I was observing, what people were telling me. So in talking with a lot of the developers and FBAs out there, this is the characteristics of the things that I'm starting to see. These projects, these solutions that are being delivered, are very narrowly focused. They have either one or very few purposes, maybe one function, maybe one feature, they're really, really focused on one thing, maybe one business need. The other thing is that they are usable. They deliver a benefit to the customer immediately. Customer can get back to the office, plug it in and start using it and get value out of it right away. And the last thing is that they are developed very rapidly at low cost, but at a decent quality, at a quality that the developer feels that it's up to their names, deliver something with quality. So I tried to put a name behind this whole thing, so I didn't know what to name it, so I just called it a 10 hour project, because we had come from that idea to iPad and as anybody in the IT world, we love acronyms, so I tried to distill it to something. Some of them, obviously, work better than others. Yeah, I couldn't do it. But John Matthewsson from QLogix said, Ronnie, just describe it. Don't name it. Don't label it. That's his mom who was describing it. Don't label it. And it's absolutely right. I'll try to describe it. So my description, the best one I found was this. It's the most valuable solution that you can deliver in the shortest amount of time. And I didn't say 10 hours. I didn't say you can deliver in 10 hours, because although I call this a 10 hour project, for some people it's not 10 hours. It's 15, it's 20, it's 25, it's 30. And quite honestly, the 10 to 30 hour project doesn't sound sexy as a session title. So I called it that. But the idea really is to go back and deliver something that you can get done in a very short amount of time, delivers its quality. You're proud of giving back to the customer and that they get value out of it. They can start using it. And then you're going to go back to that and add more to that. They're going to say, well, we need more. This is not the end. This is not the end product. We're going to go back and we're going to build upon that. That is going to be the starting point for what we want in the future. So would you like to see some of those, as I saw? I want to show you some of the things that our FBA are building in 10 hours. Everything you're about to see was done in around 10 hours. So Scott Howard was a really great success story with one of the customers from the Idea to iPad campaign. Really amazing. This law firm had been collecting over 10 years of spreadsheets, and they didn't know what to do with it. They needed to get data out of it. And if you go around looking for tools to extract that, it's really hard, believe it or not. And they've got resources and they tried, trust me. And so Scott came into the picture. And the customer came into one of the events of the Apple Store, immediately fell in love with the tool and said, you know what? This tool just might be what we're looking for. So $2,000 later and 10 hours later, Scott Howard delivered this to them. It takes all of their information from years and years of spreadsheet to help them analyze. And this is all billing information. This is what the lawyers, the billing hours of the lawyers, and the customers, what they've paid, and all that information that has valuable information in them, but it's almost impossible to get out, to extract that and make meaningful decisions out of it. Remember one of those quotes I said at the beginning? He was one of them. They had tried to build something like this and spent thousands and thousands of dollars and were unable to do something that really worked until this. This went on to, they went on to purchase over 50 iPads, thousands of dollars in comical licensing, yay. And Scott Howard got hired for additional 100 hours. But this was usable in day one. I guess this one, this is from SmallCo, another law firm, so I'll keep with the theme there for a second, in 10 hours, and honestly they told me that this took 10 hours because the clock you see there is in JavaScript and they wrote it from scratch. So they could have done it in less. And the idea here is really to help those customers, those lawyers, keep track of their time while they're working on those cases. But it feeds, it interacts directly with their back end solutions that they already have. So usable, driving value right away. And obviously they're getting hired for additional work after this. QLogic, this is a really nice inspection system and John Matthews himself did. This is really, really nice. Again, inspections, we've seen this a million times and everything, but he went above and beyond and created, made this a completely extensible inspection system. So they can create their own inspections. They don't have to go back to John and say, hey, we got this new type of form, this new inspection. Can you go ahead and create this for us? They can go ahead and build it themselves. And on top of that, he built them a dashboard that's completely dynamic. They can choose which inspector they want to see, the work they want to see, and it builds these charts, all built in FileMaker, no plugins or anything, in around 10 hours. Completely usable day one. And obviously they came back, once again, to hire for more. They're adding more features to this entire, to this project. DB Services did this really, this nice solution here for a landscaping company. And I want Japan to see at the top, there's all these tabs up there. None of them work except for the one you're on. There's a clear vision of where the customer wants to go. This is what we want to build out. That's fine. But what do you want to start with? We need to manage our customers and the contact and our communication with them. So this allows them to manage all their customers. And also, they can put in all their work, every message with photo, really, really nice, so they can keep track of all the conversations with their customers. Again, usable from day one. I suppose it's really a great, amazing work with this. And we've done a really great success story with this one. So KaiaFit is a high-end fitness center. It has, I want to say, about 50 locations, mostly in the west of the country. And they got, in every one of these jams, if you will, I've been told that when you sign up for a jam, I have no idea about that. But if you sign up for a jam, you have to fill out some paperwork. There's some contact and release forms. And what happens is, all of these things, all of these in all these locations, all these forms, had to be sent back to corporate to be filed away. And all those paperwork, guess what? They're getting lost. And if you lose one of those release forms, the risk that's involved there for the company is huge. So they decided, we've got to move away from this. We've got to centralize the information. We've got to put it digital. Let's move away from paper and we want to go mobile. So they went to the Apple Store and they said, look, this is what we want to do. Put us on an iPad. Gone to here into the IDID iPad. Bundle got paired up here with iSolutions. And in 10 hours, they took the entire paper-based process of signing up those customers into this. So this is the process now. The customers come in. They're given an iPad. They put all their information. That's the form, the release of liability. Capture their signature. Make sure that they are. They're OK with everything and up and running. Completely mitigated a lot of the risks that involved here in Kaifit. Done in 10 hours. That's powerful. Obviously, they came back and they loved this whole thing and they bought a bunch of iPad. They actually moved up to iPad Pros. iPad Pros just came out during that time and said, no. We want to go to iPad Pros and they talked to Chris and said, look, we want you to work. We want more work. We want to expand this. And since then, it's expanded way more beyond this. They've added a lot more features. It's continuously growing. It's very, very successful. This is full city consulting. Another great success story is from one of those idea to iPads. Customer comes in, goes into Maybrothers Landscaping. This organization, this company does two things. They do snow removal, right? Applying. And they also have a landscaping side of the business. They're in Milford, Pennsylvania. There you go, thanks. They come into the Rockway Apple Store and they saw one of our presentations and said, yep, sign us up. So this organization has six, seven, eight trucks that they use to go. The customers are under contract. What they do is they go out whenever there's a storm or what they call it, one of these weather events they call it. That's the technical term. And once one of those happens, they take out their trucks and they go out and they plow. But the problem was, like a lot of our customers who are getting started, it's all paper-based. So every single one of their truck drivers takes one of these forms out with them and has to, with a pen, knock down which customers that they just serviced. And then when all this stuff comes back to the office, gets put into this nice little table over here, which then needs to take all that information and put into their billing system. To make it matters worse, two brothers own this company and operate them. One of them, Ted, was really the operations guy. He's also an airline pilot. So he's gone two or three days out of the week. So when he comes back every two or three days, he's got a pile of paper waiting for them and they have not been able to bill anything because he's not back yet. So I'd like to show you what these guys did. Want to see it? Awesome. All right. Meh. So we come in over here and now all of these drivers have an iPad with LTE connected. They're wirelessly connected to the central office. They have the file maker server there. So all of the information is live. So when they come in here and there's a new storm, a new weather event, they get a list of all the customers that are under contract. And the idea is you'll notice that here on the side is that the status is new. The idea is that all these will end up being completed by the end of this weather event. So I can take any one of these. I'll go into here. This customer can see all the information, all the work that we've done for them on time over here. Since they're always connected, and let's say I'm a new driver, I can see their location. Get driving directions if I need to as well. And so it's really good. Especially if I'm a new driver, this is going to help me a lot. But even more, I think this is cooler. Especially if I'm a new driver. Get a sitemap. This is the location of this customer that I'm supposed to plow, that I'm supposed to service. This is awesome. I don't want to plow the wrong parking lot, right? This is not what we're contracted. So this gives them a good overview of where they're supposed to work. This is really nice. But once I got over here, I'll go ahead and, let's see, we'll start here a new, let's say, went over here to Milford Methodist Church. And we're going to start. I'm a truck driver. I got there. And let's say the weather here is that there's snowing today. I'm going to plow. And we're also going to salt. The site right now has a bunch of snow. I'm going to use a truck and a tool cat. And I'm going to use about three tons of salt. There's about six inches of snow. And currently the temperature is about 23 degrees. And I start. I'm going to get on my truck. Should I do the sound effects? I'm going to get on my truck and start plowing. So mind you, we got six, seven other guys who are doing the same thing. They're going to do all of these customers. And at the end, I've finished all of my plowing and everything and I'm done. But I know that there's going to be more snow. We're going to have to come back in a few hours and plow once again. So instead of stopping this, all I'll do is I'll pause this. I'll go over here, go back. And I can see over here, not just me, but everybody in my team sees that we've worked on it. But it might need some more work. So two hours later, one of my buddies comes back, opens up the truck and says, oh, you know what? We have to plow again. But now there's some sleet over here. I'm going to do some plowing, I'm going to do some salt. Right now there's slush here all over the place. I'm just going to use the truck this time. And I only need one ton. There's only about two inches. And the temperature right now is about 30 degrees. And I'll start. I'm going to get on my truck and I'll burn and do all this stuff. And I plow this whole thing. And once I'm done, the weatherman says there's nothing else we're clear. This weather pattern is done. I will stop. Job is completed. Then go back over here and see it completed. At the end of the storm or the weather, the idea that everybody here is going to be completed. And the back end of this, they got all the information required to pull into their billing system. So Todd now can bill from anywhere in the world, wherever he is, whichever city he happens to be at that time. Their productivity has skyrocketed. They've described this as not being a tactical advantage. This is a strategic advantage for them. Everybody else has been paper based in their industry, where they are, right? Completely usable. Again, in around 10 hours. So you see a little bit of what can be done in 10 hours and they won't let me lie. So the question really comes into, well, why in the world would you want to do something in 10 hours really, right? Why would I want to cram all this work that I can easily take a lot more and tell the customers it's going to be 50 hours or something like that and spend a little bit better? Why should I cut the project into pieces? Well, there's a lot of benefits. So in talking with a lot of the FBAs, I heard a lot of stuff, right? So the first thing I heard was, this helps introduce the customer into the development process. No surprise. I mean, you probably see this a lot of times. You go with the customer, the customer has never been in a development process in a custom development process. They don't know what that's like and it's intimidating for a lot of people to get into that process. They don't understand what's going to happen. They don't know what it is to work with a consultant. So bringing this down into something that's a lot smaller, a lot more manageable, 10, 15, 20 hours makes them much more manageable for them and helps them introduce it into that process. How many of you have gone to customer meeting and say, well, we're gonna do this and the very next question is, okay, so what happens next? What do we do? What are we gonna deliver stuff? So there's a lot of fear because it's a huge unknown for the customer. The other great thing about this is that you get to learn from the customer how they work and who they are and what their values are immediately. How many times have you been in a large project and been with a customer and you said, had I known how this customer worked before, I probably would have not taken this project, right? This is a great way for you to get into that project, into getting to know that customer with a very low amount of risk and this helps you build the relationship. Both of you are gonna learn from each other. I used to tell my customers when I was doing consulting, this is marriage, we're getting married. This is going for the long run and our first meeting is where was this date? We're going to figure out whether we like each other because we're gonna be in this for a very long time and why not do this with something that's a lot smaller, a lot short span and doesn't have a lot of risk. So this brings to the next benefit. You minimize the risk, right? Like Adam Anderson told me this, 10 hours doesn't give us a lot of rope to hang ourselves. Totally true, right? You're not putting a lot on the line in 10 hours and neither is the customer. So you can both learn about each other, learn about the process, learn about how each other's work without risking too much into that. The other thing is, and I heard this from several developers and Chris Epileid was telling me about this and Todd Weller is that, wow, we've learned a lot about what a developer can do in this platform in a short amount of time. When you're put against the clock, right, and you put the pressure is on, wow, did we learn, right? Because we take it for granted. It was like, no, this is gonna take 50 hours or it won't take 30, 40 hours, whatever. But we don't stop to realize that this platform has really been built to get things done quickly. And it's amazing where you can get done in 10 hours when the pressure is on you and to deliver those things. So your developers can learn a lot from the platform and what can be actually delivered, what can be done in a very short amount of time if you get them into the exercise of doing that, right? That's the only way you've got to exercise that. And Todd Weller told me, these are a lot of fun, right? Especially you've been working a lot on these large projects that you're over and over, you've been working for these for months or years. It's great to step out of that for a while, 10 hours, it's not gonna take me long. And at the end, I'll be happy, it'll be done. I saw something else completing the process, we learned something, let's move on. So they can be a lot of fun for the developer and sometimes I know that our work gets a little, gets a little monotonous. These can help a lot with that and not become too bored with the whole thing. Now these are all really great benefits, but I'm gonna put the greedy hat on right now. The most common reasons, however, to take this approach that I heard had to do with money, right? These are two things, the two main reasons you might wanna take this approach, number one, it helps you sell more. It helps in the sales process. How so? Kevin Hammond, I'm totally stealing this phrase from him, he said, him and his team has internalized this, this concept of land and expand. The idea is that we're gonna get the customer a win, get in the organization, we'll have the platform installed and then we can move on to more projects. We'll add more to this existing one, we'll get more projects, it's gonna be a lot easier. The conversation, once you've got a win, once the platform is installed, oh, we all know that, right? That second conversation is so much easier. You don't have to explain everything, everything is installed, you want a new project, you got FileMaker Server installed, oh yeah, no problem, right? So it's so much easier to sell additional projects and additional hours with the customer, they're already happy and they already have the platform, they already adopted. And then it also helps you, once you've got this figured out, how to create, how to deliver very small projects, well, no project is too small or too big, right? The scales, so how many, one of the developers who I cannot say is their name told me, well, for years, we were whale hunters. If the customer didn't come with us with 100, 200 hours, sorry, no, we won't do it, I'll recommend somebody else for you. And then by talking with other, with other FBA members, they said, well, you know what? Maybe we should take smaller projects, or maybe we should start smaller with these projects instead of giving them a very huge estimate. So they've went back and they've been calling their customers over the past five years, the ones that they told no for so many years and already have built and converted some of those customers back, right? So no customer, no project is too small, once you learn to deliver something in a very short amount of time, or break those big projects into small bite sizes that the customer can handle. And the other part is that, that helps you with money, not directly, but maybe indirectly, has to do with marketing. So the other great reason to take very small projects or break it down and do an initial delivery, the very small, is that these can help you with marketing materials, right? You wanna have demos, you wanna have screenshots of the great work that you've done. So these are great projects for you to do that. But also it built to brand advocates, right? If you, one of these customers, you deliver this and they're happy, oh my God, they will swear up and down for you. I want one of the, Matt Pricciotti was telling me he was working with one of these, with a customer and he spent only two hours with his customer. Two hours, that's it. And he thinks, I'm never gonna see that person again. But I did it in two hours, it was exactly what they needed. But guess what, if somebody ever asked that person about custom development, it's like, I need an app, guess who that person is going to refer? And if six, one, maybe a year down the road, or two years on the road, if they need something else, who do you think they're gonna go back to? Right? It's not even a matter of who, they're gonna absolutely go back to the God of Wind, the God of Trust relationship, it's already been built, right? So they got somebody who's advocating for the brand. If you wanna know a little bit more about those, there's actually two sessions tomorrow that are gonna dive deep into these two concepts. You got creating marketing content. It's tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. This is really nice, this is gonna be focused on taking screenshots and things like that, all those materials and making them look good so that you can present them and use them for, right, use them for your website and using for social media and things like that. And then the next one, distributing marketing content, which is really about taking, making your customers work for you, right? Have them advocate for you and talk about you so they can refer more traffic towards your organization. So now that you're all convinced that this is really good to do, there comes a question then, how do you do it, right? And it's so easy and why isn't everybody doing it? And that's a great question. It's actually not easy. So everybody told me here, it's really not the easiest thing to do, especially if you're used to really large projects and looking at everything really big, trying to narrow on something very small is really hard. The same process you have for 100 hours does not necessarily scale down to 10 or 15, right? You can't use the same mold for a cake than to do a cupcake, it doesn't work. So I asked everybody, everybody who I was talking to, well, those who have been successful with it, well, what's your process? What's the secret sauce? What do you do? So I got four things that everybody, some of them were a little bit, were in agreement, but these are the four things that everybody agreed on. And I thought these were amazing. I thought this is worth sharing. So the first thing that they told me is that you need a specific process, right? One size does not fit all. You can't take the exact same thing that you've been doing for years for these large whales and then try to hook up a small fish, it doesn't work. So one of the things in this process is that you need to accommodate for very small, very minimum management. You cannot have two, three people managing the development process when there's so few hours that it doesn't work. So you're gonna look at things like, if you wanna read up on these things, look at the agile methodologies and scrum management for work, this describes as a whole way of being able to manage small projects iteratively with very minimum intervention. And then these projects need to be designed for iterative work, right? These, what you're gonna build is gonna be the starting point, right? The building block, the brick of the wall that you're going to build. I totally stole that from Aaron. This is the starting point and it's gonna be usable, right? But it's not the end result. You need to have that, know that you're gonna be building on this. So you need to develop it so that everything else can connect later on. Then you need to sign the right person. And this is so, I heard this so many times, doing a small project this way or shrinking it down and delivering a 10-hour project, this is not for the beginner, right? This is not for the first-time user. This is not for a junior developer. This is for a senior. You need somebody who requires a very minimum oversight, who can take care of the quality, who can do the testing himself, him or herself, who knows about user-centered design and some user interface design, who knows it has a good eye for these things and can absolutely work under pressure, right? That being said, many of the people I spoke with told me that this also can be used for junior developers to help them bring them up the ranks. This is an amazing experience for junior developers to learn other ways, looking at things in a completely different way and seeing what is really possible with the platform. That being said, you're gonna go over. You put a junior developer there, you're probably gonna have another person, right, watching over their shoulder and is gonna go over the time-allowment. There's no over that. But that's the cost you're gonna pay for training this junior developer and bringing that person up the ranks. The other thing is, this process needs to have a set timeframe. I say 10 hours, right? But it can be 15, 20, whatever it is that you want, short amount of time, but choose one and stick with it is what I got, right? If it's 20 hours for you, then fine. But make sure then that going forward, your process is on here for 20 hours so that you can take on any $20 product or any 20 hour slot and use the exact same process. Don't go over the place. Don't start with 10, go to 15, 20, then go back to 10. It doesn't really help you. The second point then has to do then with planning on the project level. And every single project, there's gonna be some planning that needs to be done. The first thing has to do with you need to know exactly why you're going into this project. And we saw that there's a lot of benefits and some other really good reasons when it comes with money, right? So you need to know why you're doing the project, right? Today it can be for sales, tomorrow it can be for marketing and this other project can be just for the learning experience, whatever it is. But for each individual project, know exactly why you're going into it. And the reason is that later on, a lot of the decisions are gonna be based on what the motive is for this particular project. So be clear on why you're getting into this. The other thing is that you really need to understand, even though you're doing something very, very small, you need to understand the big picture. You need to know where the customer wants to go. Understand what all the needs are, where they want to get to, what's point A, what's point B. Even though we're gonna start with small slices, right? We need to have a very, very clear picture of where we're going. And this works on both sides. The customer needs to understand that even though we're delivering something that's usable, this is not the end, this is just the beginning. And we're going to get somewhere, we're gonna get to all of it at the end, but it's gonna take a while. This is obvious, right? The scope has to be just right. And we've all been to the meeting, customer would say, what is it that you want to do? And they give us a laundry list of all these things that they want to do, this huge wish list that this, yep, this is all I wanted, this is, I was in a dream, I woke up and this is all the stuff that I saw in my dream. This is what I want you to build. Yeah, and I want it tomorrow and it's gonna be cheap. With these, and even in a large project, this is a problem, scope creep is a problem, but when you're dealing with a very small time frame, it's imperative it's clear. So what I've heard so far in the best practices is, let's say that your time is 10 hours and the customer comes back and says, okay, these are the things, these are the 20 things that I want to do. So, well, that looks amazing, that looks great. That's gonna take 23 hours. So why don't we talk about what we can get accomplished in 10? Let's start choosing, let's start making, let's try organizing these and prioritizing these and let's see what's the most important thing for you. What's the one thing that you need to get done now? Well, I'll come back and they'll give you a list of 20 things instead of 23. These are all important, but you need to help them out, figure out what that order is going to be. And even though they tell you, these are my top three, these are what we can fit in 10 hours, right? Do you tell them this we can fit in 10 hours? It's your job to realize that maybe you know, need number seven needs to be done first for number one to be accomplished, right? Because we as a consultant, as developers, we know what's really required in order to deliver something. So even though they say this is my number one thing, but number seven down here needs to be done first. It's like, you know what, I love it, we're gonna do that, we're definitely gonna do that, but this needs to be done first and this is what we're gonna deliver. And then take that scope and try to fit it and decide which one of those things, how many of those things you can fit in the time slot that you've already established it's gonna be, 10, 15, 20 hours or whatever it's gonna be. So once you've decided to scope for the project, then expectations is the most important thing. This has to be the number one fallout reason for any of these projects. Clear expectations and this on both sides. This is not just customer, you know, and not having clear expectations, but also from the side of the consultant, right? Customers need to understand very, very clearly what's gonna be delivered and what's not gonna be delivered is almost as important if not more, right? This is what we're gonna deliver, it's gonna be usable, it's gonna have value, but there's gonna be more stuff. This is not the end, this is what we're getting in the first, and you also need the expectation of what their responsibility is gonna be and how we're gonna move on later on after that. So that brings it here to next steps. The ones who are most successful in using this type of methodology were very clear to their customers what the next steps were when they delivered. Kevin Hammond told me, I never walk into that first meeting without a proposal or outlining what the next steps is gonna be. I think it's brilliant, of course, right? Again, a lot of these people don't know, they've never done this before, they don't know what to expect. We need to help them out in that process. They need to understand, okay, this is what we deliver first, but this is not the end, we're gonna start. This is what's gonna come next. Remember that list that we had? All the 20 things that we left out? All right, let's go through that list once again. Let's see what we can fit in the next iteration. Help out with that. And trust me, most of the time, you're gonna come out of that meeting with more work going on to the next cycle. The third thing then has to do was the tools. You need the right tools. The first one of those things has to do with the platform. So give yourselves a hand of applause. You got the right platform. Congratulations. I asked everybody, I called. Do you think, in your opinion, do you think you could do this in another platform? Can you deliver this if you're working in another platform? And this is what their opinion, right? A lot of these FBAs have been working with other platforms as well and they manage multiple platforms and told me, no, flat out. Every single one of them told me, no. There's no other platform I know that I can do something so quickly, so powerful, and deliver with so many different options than FileMaker. I was like, yes, I'm in the right place. That's awesome. So you got that down. Congratulations. Now, here's the second part. You've been hearing for years at DevCon, right? To reuse stuff. To lay out your tools to make things, to be more efficient, to get things done, get things better. So we're talking about, for example, themes, right? We introduced themes in FileMaker 12. This is the reason why, right? Themes are a huge time saver. And I don't care if you use the FileMaker built in themes or you built your own. That's fine, but themes are a must if you're gonna do short cycle development. There's no time to develop something new. Themes take time, right? Making things look good take time. So you need to leverage themes. Again, it doesn't matter if the built-in ones, it doesn't matter if you're gonna build your own, but use them and abuse themes. The other thing has to do with layout. And I don't talk about just creating form and list view. It's about the entire layout, right? What does a form view, what does a form layout look like? Where are you gonna put the fields and containers and portals and things like that? Having predefined layouts, things that you can reuse is amazing. And if you want to build your own, I know Yana's having this great session on the grid and everything, and that goes back to that, right? Having those things, those layouts, those different patterns, if you will, of placing objects on the layout are a huge time saver. And this is where you can really leverage those things. The other thing, and the obvious things, right? We've heard this a million times, scripts and functions that you use all the time. This is where you can really exploit those things. Concepts like modular file maker and things like that, this is where they really shine. I'm not talking about it, and be careful with this too. I'm not talking about having complete frameworks and things like that, because although there's a place for that, you wanna be careful with not delivering something too big and blow out the expectations of the customer, right? If you've got a framework that you normally use and it has all these cool things like navigation and authentication and all these fun stuff, and you deliver that in 10 hours, guess what? Customers are gonna think that every 10 hours you're gonna deliver something like that, right? There's no way around it, and it doesn't matter how well you explain to them, that's what you're gonna do. But reuse, right? You have a lot of scripts that you probably use all the time, custom functions that you've built and you've reused over and over and over that you know they tried and true. This is the moment, right? This is the time when you wanna use those things. Which then comes if you can put all these things together that you got starter solutions. And again, there's two ways in this. You can use the FileMaker built-in starter solutions. They're a great way to start out projects and deliver something really quick. I know Adam uses them at Full City, they use them a lot. And a couple of others that I spoke with use starter solutions a lot. It's a great way to get things started and FileMaker 15 has four really great new starter solutions that are simplified versions of for existing ones, they're great. Use them, really, really use them. But if you don't like those, create your own. Why not, right? You've got all the tools, you've had all that stuff, put it all together, create your own starter solutions. And a lot of the FBAs I spoke with are using those. I know Matt Navarro told me that he's got his own starter solution. A couple of other guys were telling me the same thing. Again, this is not a framework. We're not talking about framework. We're talking about a file that has the themes that we normally use or the theme that I normally use, custom functions, scripts, layout, some sample layouts that I use so I can get started very, very quickly. And the fourth one is, build something freaking awesome. Please, you have to wow the customer. And this goes back into the world we're living in, right? Customers are used to really nice looking apps, right? How many of you have a smartphone in your pocket right now? Really, and the ones that's like 80% of the ones and the ones who are too lazy to raise your hand. That's fine. And we all have smartphones. We're all used to these things called apps, right? That eight, 10 years ago did not exist. We're used to looking at these small little things that look amazing and that work and they're easy to use. So you have to, unfortunately or unfortunately, the bar has been raised, right? We have to meet those expectations. That's what the customers are expecting now. So we need to start learning about user-centered design. And we've been hearing at DevCon and we've been ringing that over and over again. This is extremely important. The user is a center of that. You're not the most important thing, it's the user. And it needs to be easy to use and needs to be very, very well thought of because you need to know how the user's gonna use this. And make sure that it's easy to use. The other thing, it's gotta look awesome. It's gotta look great. And I'm not talking, you don't have to go out and become a graphic designer, but there's things you can learn, right? There's master classes. Albert is out there, it's thinking you're there. You can learn a lot of these things. And this is why a senior developer makes more sense when these projects, right? You got somebody who's experienced in delivering this type of look and feel. Make it look nice, right? Don't align things, don't put things here and there. Don't deliver the mad salad thing again, okay? We're beyond that in FileMaker 15, I think, right? The other thing is, and this is something that I think in the software development we've been losing as of late. And it's the concept of surprise and delight. Customers want to be swept off their feet. We all do, right? You download that app and you're, it looks really amazing, but there's a small little feature that's one little thing that makes, it's a really dumb thing, but you're like, oh, that's nice, I'm glad that they put that there, right? The extra cup holder in the car and things like that. These small little things that you were not expecting but they're useful and they speak directly to you, right? And Chris Ippolight has this, I totally stole this from him. He calls them hero features, right? It's those things in FileMaker that cost us very, very little but the customer things that we spent hours doing, right? That are just really amazing deliver a lot of stuff. I'm talking about barcode scanning and the signature capture and things like that that are just truly amazing to deliver a lot of value but cost us so little to do. And don't, by the way, I'm not saying put those things in just to put them in, right? They got, they need, there needs to be a purpose behind it, right? They have to be purpose driven. If not, then they don't put a signature cap just because you want to put a signature caption that looks cool, put it there because the customer really is going to need it. It's going to use it. So recapping here. These are the four things, right? So again, you're going to need a process. Management has to be very, very minimal. You need to plan for iterative work so you're going to keep on working. There's going to be several cycles to build the project but you're going to start very small. You need to choose the right person and you're going to have to make that decision. You want somebody who's senior, you want somebody who's junior and want them to learn how to do this. Set the timeframe. Know what that's going to look like and what works for you. For every single project, make sure you understand why you're getting into it. What your mode is, what your reasons are, what you want to get out of this. But understand what the big picture is. Know you're planning a tree but you need to be able to look at the forest and how that tree comes along and fits inside of that forest. The scope is extremely important. You need to define that and make sure that it fits correctly and within the project. Expectations need to be crystal clear. This is the number one fallout for every single project I saw. Expectations need to be clear on both sides of the table. Make sure that you make it very clear what the next steps is at every single iteration, especially the first one. Customers need to know what's going to happen next and what the next steps are going to be. The tools, you got the right platform. Once again, congratulations. But also remember to reuse the tools that you've accumulated over the years and built the new ones if you need so as well. User-centered design, we cannot say this enough. This is really about the user, not about you. It has to look good and remember to surprise and delight your customers. They want to be. They want to be swept off their feet. So, recap. We're talking here really about taking a big thing and breaking it down to something very, very small that's useful, that delivers value and it's minimum risk and deliver it in a very short amount of time. There's a lot of benefits with this but obviously it helps you with the sales process. It can help you with marketing and so, so, so much more. Probably some of the things that I have not thought about. Remember to deliver this. It's process, planning, the tools, remember to wow your customers. They really, really want to be wowed in every single step. Good? All right, so with that, I will open it up for questions. If there is any. Adam? Sure. When I put to the microphone so that everybody back home can. By the way, this is being recorded. I've been told it's gonna go on to our YouTube. Oh, in that case. That'd be awesome. So you guys might all become famous. Maybe not like the champ that scrunches behind falls off the tree, but. So I wanna underscore something you said. Yeah. And I wanna add a little bit of spin to it. So we have a person starting on Monday when I get back. We plan on using these 10 hour projects. They're integrated as part of the training process. We're gonna put that person through to get them on board. So can't say enough about that. I think that's really important. They'll work with me or one of our other developers to kind of guide through that process. So I just think it's in a 10 hour project there's so much rich stuff that can be brought out that a new file maker developer can learn from just like I did back when I was building 10 hour projects. The second piece is something you didn't mention which is that there's a lot of Zen in this 10 hour project. And when you have developers and I'm sure none of us here are guilty of this that have been doing this for a long time and tend to come up with all really creative ways of constructs and frameworks and methods. You don't have room for that in the 10 hour engagement. So it's Zen in the art of file maker, right? You're really forced to bring it down to the bare minimum. And I think that's been a really good, I've used that as a teaching pattern in my organization to say to people, yeah, just keep it simple, right? There's no room for gold plating. There's no room for bronze plating in this kind of environment. And at the end you have something with no, what does a man of our call him Scruff or something like that. He says, yeah, there's no unusable part there, right? Using a framework really can hinder you here at this point. Starting from scratch, most of the time you're gonna have to start from scratch with the exception of some of the tools you have. But yeah, there is a send portion to that to start it completely from scratch, something brand new. And keep it simple. And I think there's also a, there's a, stupid, thank you. I think there's also a certain satisfaction at the end, right? When you're doing one of these projects and you start this completely from scratch with no additional help. And you're like, wow, this is really cool. I did this from scratch and the customer is happy and there's value there. I found that there's a really great gratification there. Albert? So Ronnie, you're talking about delight as the last element of the wow, and that's perfect, you know? And the way we frame it is we talk about the narcissist effect, right? They wanna look into the mirror and they wanna see themselves and they wanna love what they see. And so these guys here, they function as mirrors, okay? Mirror, mirror on the wall. They look into it, they wanna see themselves in it. So what you're aiming for is that your, that first app is a mirror-like reflection where they look in and they see themselves. They see a glint of recognition. And if they do see themselves in that, that means that you listened well enough to hear who they were and their soul. Absolutely, thanks Albert. Great. Hey Mark. I got a comment and a question. Quick show of hands. FBAs in the room? So that's more than half. Awesome. So last night we saw a little line of text on the screen that I know was probably under development and such, but it was sort of a different way to position sort of the platform. Just another piece of text, but I think you should throw this one at the top out there. Whether that's to attract developers or whether that's to attract in-house IT groups, probably to provide solutions, I think that articulates a lot of what the platform has to offer. And I know that you probably came up with that yourself, but that's a marketing line right there that's pretty solid. Thank you. The other is, I'm just wondering, obviously the bundle from the idea to iPad comes with marketing, it comes with software and some subsidy size funds for the FBA. But it's really a loss leader, the way we look at it. And so obviously if you're doing this yourself, you have the option to say, you know I'm gonna do 10 hours of our normal rate and that's still a pretty inexpensive project. But I've got this good, fast, cheap triangle on my wall that I look at all the time and I often use it to explain to customers why we're really good and fast. And we're not cheap. And whether that's because the quality we put in or our experience or whatever, this seems to violate that concept and say you can get all three. So I'm curious if you've got any pushback about the idea that this is sort of like that impossible combination and am I just misunderstanding? Cause I'm worried about even at a regularality rate giving a client an impression or maybe I just need to learn a new way of thinking about it that you can have your cake and eat it too. Yeah, so this is nothing that I've created or come up or came up with. This is stuff that's happening now, right? These are, people here in the room are developing and delivering like this. It requires, again, it's not easy and a lot of them have struggled to get to that point and some of them that I spoke with are in that process. But they've learned, some of these have learned that there is a way of delivering something in a very short amount of time that you feel proud of and that the customer can take away and it is valuable and it's usable right off the bat. Again, this is not, the idea is that you're not delivering something that's completely done. It's not completely finished, right? This is the first step of a long journey that we're gonna take together, right? The customer, you're still gonna have, this is not, and by the way, this is not saying that you should not go after those whales, right? I'm not saying don't be a well hunter, don't look for those large, more whales. Yeah, but like Adam says, I have a hook in one hand and a harpoon in the other, that's fine, it's good. But the idea is that I'm presented with this very large problem. Instead of me trying to tackle this entire problem, which is very hard and very stressful, let's break it down to the smallest thing that we can do that's gonna deliver value to the customer that we can deliver to and that we're proud of at the end. And there's a complete mindset and there's something, yeah, I can't put that there in words, but there's also a philosophical part of that, that you have to believe in that you can do that, right? And that you want to be able to do that and want that customer to take that next step and be happy and other things. And yes, there's money involved with that, but there is a way of doing that. And again, this is not new. I'm not inventing anything and this is not new to the Fomac or Platform either. We go out there and other development platforms are preaching the exact same thing and they're doing it and they're doing it in platforms that take a lot longer than us. So I'm not telling you to adopt this, but I just want to, I thought it was valuable for everybody to know that a lot of your peers are doing this and it seems to work. Not only that, I can't mention their name because they told me that if I do, all of you are gonna try to have them pay for all your drinks, but they told me that they're shifting their customer base from very large projects which most of the, usually most of their projects were large projects to smaller, iterative work. And they're completely shifting that and because they learned that by tweaking their process but becoming very good at that, their small engagements or their short cycles have become more profitable than the large one lump sum kind of projects. So it's doable. People are doing it. We just have to figure it out, right? And it's gonna be different for everybody. I hope I answered your question, Mark. So how many of these 10 hour projects have been done by FBAs? You mean the idea of iPads one? Yes. Bill? About a hundred. About a hundred. What's the conversion rate? So I don't have the full number on those but I can tell you from some of them what's your conversion rate? How many have you done? 15. Yeah. And you converted 95% into larger projects. Into more work. Sure. Yeah. What's the overall, I mean, you might be really good at this. I'm saying what's the overall conversion rate? I don't know. But once again, not everybody is successful at it. I'm not saying it's easy either. It's not easy. And maybe it doesn't even work with your organization. It's completely possible, right? But I was talking with Chris Ippolite as well. He's done 16 of them. His team has done 16 of them. They got a nearly 100% rate of additional work. So some people are doing it. They're being successful at it. That's all the case I'm trying to make, right? The people are doing it, it's possible because they are doing it. And there's a way to make more money or be more successful and get more additional work by treating it that way. I totally agree with that. I'm just saying I'm looking at the landscaping company. The business need was so blatantly obvious. Why did you need the 10 hour project? What benefit other than you killing yourself on a 10 hour project? I mean, you're telling me you couldn't have sold that without the 10 hour project? I mean, sure. Yeah, sure. There's something that baffling your mind still. I can see it. Well, no, because I was in, what's his name? The pigeonhole yourself guy. His session was 100% 180 from this one. 100% 180. So what I'm asking is, he's the successful software consultant. You work for FileMaker. Who should I believe is my question. Don't believe me. Don't believe me. No, and this is why I said in the beginning, this, everything I'm telling you was not, I didn't come up with that. This comes from all my conversation with FBA members, some of them who are sitting right here right now and are doing this and being successful. I know, we have a lot of questions. I'm just, I'm playing devil's advocate because I'm hearing this rosy, rosy picture that you're paying. And I'm saying, where's the guy who did 10 hours of work, didn't get the client and he missed out because he wasn't responding to a client that was gonna be real. So what I'm saying is, you painted a really rosy picture here today. You didn't paint a balanced picture. And so I'm trying to say, is what's the balance to this? How many don't convert? How many 10 hours did I waste? Especially in like the idea to iPad at low my normal rate. How many hours of planning did I put into a 10 hour development project? Because I hear 10 hours. There's no way you spent 10 hours on that because there was sales and planning. 10 hours total, sales. I know, yeah. Sales, planning, setting expectations, reviewing with the client. Yeah, oh yeah. 10 hours total. Yep. Sure. Yeah, yeah, cause there's customers where it's never gonna happen. They're gonna be like, I want everything. I want it 10 hours. And you're like, it's not gonna work. That's not your customer. That's not your customer. But I'm just saying, so what you're saying is you've, the reason they convert so well is because if it's not gonna convert, you're steering them away from the product. Here's what I'm saying. That's what you just said. As you said, if they're not a good fit for an idea to iPad, you steer them away from it. Well, I get that. What I'm saying is the 95% conversion rate isn't true because they came in for an idea to iPad, you steered them away. So all the ones that they were right for, 95%. Well, I'm sorry, what was your name again? Nick. Nick? Yeah. Nick, I want to make a clear distinction here, right? The idea iPad is one thing. I get that, and you can do this as well. But maybe others don't. So the idea iPad is one thing, right? It's a campaign, it's a skew that we sell that bundles several things together. And we do, the FBAs are gonna deliver 10 hours of consulting and there's something not. And they don't get their normal pay rate, their normal rate, they're not billing that. Their benefit besides doing the project is they're getting a qualified customer, right? This is a customer who's putting down $2,000, right? Who's coming, who's seen Phomac or see what it can do and is gonna go into this process, probably had never been to that before. So there's additional value that it goes beyond to what we're talking here today. What I'm saying is, even if you're outside of the idea of the iPad and you got a customer who comes in and tells you, this is what I want and this is gonna be probably 200 hours. Start small. Start small. Okay. That's it. And again, this is not for everybody. It's not easy, but a lot of people here in this room, are they doing it or are they going to do it? Sure. Yeah, so. Okay, I just wanted to ask something. No, no, and I appreciate it. I just wanna ask the questions I was asking and I was listening. I appreciate it. Yes, you were there. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Anyone else? Matt? Ronnie, I love you and you said it very clearly. This is not easy. It's a senior developer. If you have a junior developer on the job, it's gonna take oversight. I think he said it really, really clearly that this is not the easiest thing to do. But it's a learning experience. It could be a learning experience for all of our teams to give it a try. To do it. It's constraint that inspires really good design. Okay, and the kind of stuff that Marty Thomason did and Michael Helping and all that kind of stuff, that's the kind of constraints that produce really beautiful stuff. And I'd invite you to give it a try to go ahead and try and do something really tight. Our stuff had one layout. And the client didn't come and say, there's only one layout here. They said, wow, we're gonna save about 100,000 euros in one year when we do this. Value. Thank you, Albert. I'm gonna grab your bracelet. Ha ha ha ha. Hi, Matt. Hi, I love the point of the Jonathan Stark approach, which is pigeonhole yourself. And I actually wanna kind of bring it up for a second because I don't think this is diametrically opposed to that. I think that the two can both exist. And that I think also to your point, Ronnie, like this is the start, we definitely use this approach. The early win and the getting the customer excited. So they'll come to you with a big project and you can say, let me find one tiny part that I can deliver by Thursday and do it. And then they're like, wow, I'm hooked. That's the hook fully in the fish. Reel them in. And it works so much, not only for the customers, well really for art, not only for my advantage as a solution provider, but really for the customer's advantage. Because now that engages not just the one person who's the decision maker, but they're showing that to their whole team. And that gets a whole lot of other, there's just a lot of other things that come along with this. So anyway, the other part about the Jonathan Stark, I think that the huge, the benefit there is getting that discussion going because I have had a lot of arguments with Jonathan about his approach. And I think that through a lot of discussion about that, there's a lot of other good things that can come from like taking his ideas and melding them on because he's been away from FileMaker for a long time. But I think that the huge success that he's had, I think has a lot of benefit in this as well. And maybe I don't know how exactly it's gonna apply to this, but I think that's my point. There was, I think it's gonna be a good discussion. Thank you, Matt. Thanks. I just have a question, is somebody that's looking to commit to be a FileMaker Business Alliance member and all that. Is this idea to iPad only available to Platinum level members or is this something that I can use in an effort to get my business going? Great question. I don't know if I'm the right person to answer that. Am I built? At what point and where can I get updates on that? We will keep you updated. No, we'll work on that. In fact, we'll work on that. Awesome. One last thing because I have to show you something before you leave. This is like one of those superhero movies. If you stay after the credits, you get something. One added small benefit and a story. So I've been in our interviewing process for candidates to work at Full City. We have not, we've shown screenshots and we've talked a little bit about the platform but with this most recent hire, this was a person who did not come with a FileMaker background. They had a computer science background. They had a long list of things that they could do that are acronyms that I don't understand. And in our second interview, I pulled out the solution that you showed. And I said, so I said, just gave him a quick tour. I said, what do you think was involved in developing this given your background? He had done some objective C work and he said no less than 100 hours, possibly as much as 200. And when I told him that at that point what he had seen was about it was 17 hours, he was, I gotta learn more about this. So I think it's a really, it's an interesting recruiting tool as well. Thank you, that's awesome. Awesome, all right, so these are the credits. There will be updates. I will post all of these slides for your enjoyment. Thank you. Please remember to send in your evaluations. Please, please, please, we rely on this to make DevCon a much better experience every year. And I'll give some seconds so that the recording stops. So what I want to share with you, last thing is got a little treat for you. So I heard during the keynote that we got the developer challenge, the public developer challenge is really amazing. And it's going to, a lot of people have volunteered for this. We've got about like 30-something teams working all of them volunteering their work to deliver something usable, right? Something that they can start using, something that's valuable to the great organizations. And all the teams are hard at work right now. They have to deliver tomorrow morning, right? To be judged and see which one gets, we're gonna pick one for each one of these organizations. They'll be crowned winners. I got a sneak peek for you of the work that they've been doing for these last few days. This is completely exclusive, nobody else can close the door and you guys, just because you stayed here and get all the feedback. So I want to show you some of the great work that these guys and girls have been doing in only a few days. Mind you, they've been doing this under free time during DevCon, most of it, just really on top. So with that, this is team number 11. Just some of the screens, two screens. Their name is four empty coffee cups. I love that name. That's what I need. And this is for foster kinship. This is team 32 for NPHY, really nice. Team 33 also for the same organization. Oh, it's really nice. I love the Mr. T, that's awesome. That's the way to do it. And I got here for the team number 23, shared their green shops. I love their name. Look at their name here at the bottom, that's awesome. You're working for the center. This is really nice. Again, it's a few hours, right? In free time while attending DevCon sessions. That's awesome. Well, with that, again, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you.