 Thank you everyone for coming to the first ever Libre Graphics track here at scale How many of you have ever read a good gimp tutorial on the internet? Awesome, then the man standing here probably needs no introduction at all Gimp team member Pat David it's gonna talk to us about why the gimp team clearly hates all of you Apparently I did need an introduction Hi, I'm Pat David. How's everybody's afternoon going? Not so bad. I'm glad to see so many faces out here This is the inaugural inaugural Libre graphics track here at scale So I hope we've had some good presentation so far for you guys today mine is from the gimp team and was specifically titled to get you in the room and It's why so many of you gimp users that are out there Are there very many gimp users out there now show a hands who does use gimp? Ish. Yeah, all right Photoshop Get out That's right Full disclosure. I don't think I've ever really opened it Try to think through it last night. I don't know that I have why the gimp team Obviously hates you which is something as and I've been a member that I'm Pat David That's me by the way anybody ever been to meet the gimp org no Ralph Steinort He wrote much tutorials really super nice German guy set up video podcast for years on how to do fun gimp stuff He took this photo of me in a rat-scaler in in Leipzig, Germany at Libre graphics in 2014 I'm a member of the gimp team now, and I guess I have been for a few years, I guess Five six seven years something along those lines if you've been to everybody been to the website www.gimp.org Okay, that was that's mine. I made that for the team most recently And that's kind of the thing that I've been doing for them. I don't really develop For the project so I'm going to be covering a couple of things that are important to me as a photographer But I may not know the complete and utter details of so I will do my best to answer any questions, but I may defer To somebody else with more knowledge than me, right So we don't hate you in fact if you've ever spent any time around the gimp developers themselves and the team They're actually a ridiculously gracious and kind bunch of people. They're super nice. They're super accepting nobody cares who you are other than that you be nice to others and try to help if you can and It's it's quite pervasive among the team in general of trying to be helpful And I'll talk about who those team members are a little bit later because it's it's sad how few of them there really are But why do people have that perception? I think Ryan did a fantastic job in his presentation a moment ago Just before mine that I'm sure everybody was here for right good covering why we have some of the issues we have with users and Their perceptions of free software and being able to use it for tasks that are important And I think there's a few different reasons particularly for the gimp project One of those is that the user interface and user experience overall for using the software is not as polished as we'd like This isn't because we hate you That's what everyone thinks I Think I've heard the user the UI called hostile to users on multiple occasions And it's a very fun word to use when describing software, but you know it We want to do Cool things we want to do great widgets. We want to do better user interaction and Experience with the software for conducting tasks, but again, I'll show you it in a little while at the very end of this You're gonna realize that literally there are six people Working at night after their full-time job And that's mostly it for the gimp crew And it's a ridiculous amount of downloads and user base to have to be supported by six people after work Trying to hack and answer questions. We are ridiculously understaffed So we want to do these cool UI UX things that are asked of us a lot We really want to we just don't have the manpower or time yet I'll talk about that a little bit later too and part of that problem that people have about gimp being hostile is that a Lot of the workflows in proprietary software are slick Right Anybody want adjustment layers in gimp? Anyone know what they are anyone not know kind of what I mean when I say adjustment layers I'm happy to talk about them if I make a change to any layer in the stack in gimp or Photoshop Maybe I put a curve Maybe a little tone curve to it and then I might have ten or other image layers above that that all reflect against it In some way if I want to go back and change that tone curve on that tenth layer at the bottom of the stack an Adjustment layer let's me go back to that and change that curve as it exists and all the changes will bubble up through the image Stack to your final image, and if you've ever done any advanced image processing you want that Right, we don't have it at the moment in gimp, but you really want that So that's a great example of where you look at a workflow in proprietary software like adjustment layers to say that Is the smart solution to the problem and then you look at the two people that work Three nights a week two hours after they get off work and say why don't you do that? All right part of the other perception is and Again, I've only been with the team for maybe six. I guess about six or so years now is that communication with the team is often not Easy right most of the devs are only accessible in the IRC chat room You can go to our bugzilla, but bugzilla hurts to use sometimes It's not the most intuitive thing to use and the discussions that go back and forth are often cumbersome So it's hard to casually report a bug or feature request and to articulate it without having to use what seems to users to be Archaic methods of communication right we're working on that. I promise and I'll talk about that a little bit later, too And this is probably the single biggest reason people think that we hate them and it's because we're not photoshop Right And I don't have anything to say to that We're not photoshop if you dig through the history of the project you'll find a quote from 20 years ago That says we were originally trying to clone some of the features in photoshop from 20 years ago That hasn't really been the gimp's position for 19 and a half years Right, but we're not and again those adjustment layers are good examples Photoshop certainly serves as an example when you have lots and lots of money and Lots and lots of developers and UI experts and UX experts you can come up with these great workflows It's specifically meet some particular person's needs and that's great It'll serve as a great example for that But it's not a target for us as Ryan pointed out earlier if we're looking for parody we're always behind the curve We're not really looking for parody Right, but we do Acknowledge that there are quite a few things that would make a lot of our users happier if we could do it and What we see are things like different levels of frustration amongst the users I've broken them down into roughly what I think are roughly three general areas of frustration one You need to do a thing But it's a different button or a command name and it annoys you if you're an advanced user You know better than this, but imagine a brand-new user that just wants to sharpen a picture You know that maybe I don't know what it is in photo Is it like a sharpen filter in Photoshop you just say image sharpen or something like this So there's like an image sharpen that we kind of have that in GIMP not as much It's not very good either. There's better ones that are not called image sharpen right on sharp mask wavelet, etc So people get frustrated. It's a different button than what they're accustomed to or it's a different workflow or process This one's a lot more painful It can be done the thing you want can be done But you're gonna have to go around a different path to get there and at some point you get mad and say this shit I can't do this. I didn't I shouldn't have to do this No, okay, I might concede that that's a different conversation But the reality is you can do what you need to it just requires you to get there in a different path right and Then this is actually the nastiest of the levels of frustration for users when it just plain can't be done straight up and there's a few things that That that that's a truth unfortunate right and It also makes it problematic from the GIMP team when they try to help folks out because our user base is huge Blender is a 3d compositing and modeling and animation software It happens to have some image and video compositing capabilities as well as part of their pipeline, right? Inkscape is a vector image a vector editing software, right? GIMP covers digital artists photographers animators Skechers people that want to make banners for their form signatures a Huge gamut of folks and unfortunately the number of those users in each one if it's a real Mundane task we have a huge number of people and I want to put a funny text over my images and make a meme It's a lot of those people really using GIMP as part of a professional level photographic workflow Not as many people right But it's a huge span of people and so things that are important to you as a Digital texture artists for 3d modeling are very different than ones for me as a photographer Did I say I was a photographer earlier at all? I might not have I'm a photographer generally That's how I would self-identify I guess Right and part of Somewhere in there Appreciate that Other frustrations that folks have is an apparent lack of progress. It doesn't help that it's been Seven years since a major release of GIMP. I think it's somewhere in that neighborhood. I think might be six 2012 was 2.8 point. Oh, we talked about that the other night. That's right That's gonna change this actually has already started changing in the project I'll talk about that at the very end But this is a frustration for users when they look and see 2.8 and 2.8's been sitting around since 2012 the feeling is that there's a lack of progress in the project or that it's dead or that we hate you But there's not we actually have had quite a bit of interesting progress if you haven't had a chance to track it sit back I'm about to spend the next 30 slides showing that to you Some of them are neat though and there's a lot more photos in what you're seeing up till now, right? So a quick preview of what you can expect in 2.10 so that you know We're pretty far along the 2.9 developer series in GIMP right now. We're looking at a 2.10 release probably when it's done and There's a lot of features in 2.9 especially and it's stable enough for daily use especially for me I think a lot of photographers use it. No problem for Three years now something like this right so what are we looking at in the 2.10 preview? Which you'll be seeing soon when it's done a lot more customization of the user interface the icon themes are gonna be separate from the UI There'll be new icon themes, especially for high DPI work And all kinds of new theming for what it looks like. That's what GIMP looks like now It's very different than you might have been used to in 2.8 in the past now, right? This is one of the dark themes, but and that's actually a photograph of mine that I Nice that Alex put that on there. That's a symbolic icon theme that you're seeing on the left over there now, right? It looks more professional because it's dark gray not light gray Hey, guess what we do high-bit depth color anyone wanted high-bit depth color and knew what it was 1632 bit and actually 64 bit fits files. That's an astronomy thing that the NASA JPL folks needed So we do 16 and 32 bit integer and float For the images the internal pipeline is 16 bit float. I want to say I Think the internal pipeline to gaggle the 16 bit float We can read and write 16 bit pings 16 and 32 bit tiffs Photoshop files to the psds and then EXR extended range files for HDR imaging and things like that, right? And we have full linear and perceptual tone response curves For when you're working The gamma perceptual is the gamma corrected one. That's the one you've been used to linear is the one that's right Did anyone see the video quite a while back about why color mixing is wrong in digital art? And you see that like you have like a gradient of red and a gradient of green and where they overlap It should not be black, but it does get dark. That's what happens in a perceptual gamma corrected mode But in linear mode the math is actually correct, right? So it's that that thing has been fixed in GIMP. So if anyone points you to that YouTube video It's been fixed in 2.9 for a while We have a full set of color management now for the entire workflow inside of GIMP these screenshots will be in Cyrillic because I stole them from Alexander Prokodin if anyone knows him. He's the other GIMP PR writer for Libre Graphics World and I was too lazy to go rebuild his screenshots. So Russian interface, but you get the idea, right? That if you can't read Russian, come on. These are all the new color management So we have full sets of color management through little CMS 2 at the moment And it's actually going to be switched to Babel for faster color management transforms 80 GIGL based filters anyone know what GIGL is? GIGL is the back end for GIMP now all of the filters and image manipulation pipeline passes through the GIGL system all the way down, right? This is a system from Rhythm and Hughes at FX Studio that had started creating it years and years and years ago, but ended up open sourcing it. Pippin, Oven Coloss is the one that manages the GIGL pipeline now GIGL's this GIGL is the thing that's going to give you adjustment layers Because in GIGL itself everything is non-destructive. That's the thing that's going to give us non-destructive adjustment layers in three-point something, right? Full on-canvas previews anyone ever do a blur of an image you have to settle the parameters in GIMP and then hit apply and the wait while it blurs an image Right now as you move those sliders in the blur dialog it will blur the image in the background for you and you know Having those 80 different filters in GIGL mean that we can do some cool things These are this is actually the Mantua tone mapping operator being applied to an EXR image and get basically I'm tone mapping a high dynamic range image right from within GIMP using a pretty standard tone mapping operator right split previews So you can actually split and see what the effect of the filter is on one side versus what the original was This is this is working right now on canvas previews a full set of improved tools for people that like to do uniform transform Tool, you know, you just can randomly skew and warp and stretch and Perspective stretch your canvas. Those are all fast and available on the canvas right now I can actually and by the way, I know these are all screenshots. I'm gonna work through these fast I can't but anyone wants to see any of these. I actually have it on my GIMP Locally, I can certainly show it to you. It's those are very slick the warp transform. That would have been eye warp in the past This is something that you know high-fashion photographers love pinch move Make the waist a little smaller make the shoulders a little broader make the muscles look a little bigger That's the tool that's all done through GIGL now right on the and foreground select If anyone ever had to do a foreground select previously, it sucked The Madden alpha matting operator for doing fine selects Basically, I have a photo of a person standing against some trees in the background I want to cut them out of the tree image the new foreground select tools will do a much better job of selecting all those fine hairs or Leaves or what have you for objects that you want to remove from the image canvas rotation and flipping painting with different blend modes so for artists that like to paint and sketch you can actually rotate the canvas now in any arbitrary angle of rotation while you sketch We have a fully integrated search now. This was a result of a project from about two years ago One of the things I liked about blender was I wanted to go add an object in blender I could just hit a key and start typing what I think that object is like a light and I could get Directly from a drop-down menu what that object is to add we have that now in GIMP So if you're looking for a command you could literally type forward slash and start typing Unsharp and your unsharp mask will come up right away. You can select it begin working Correct. It's very nice quick fast and easy method for getting at some of these filters Oh, it's another photo of mine and so full customization and usability a Lot of enhancements to the widgets of that you're going to be interacting with in a daily basis If you haven't tried 2.9 I highly recommend this is all stuff That's been in 2.9 for years already a couple of years at least most of it With gaggle we were able to fully parallelize a lot of the processing filters So we sped up a lot of stuff that's thread safe for reading and writing and we're working on parallelizing the compositing of the layer masks in the stack Right now we don't so but for filters you add a block of Gaussian blur Colorize hue shifts what have you it's all fully parallelized now on canvas gradients editing You see all the pickpoints there are actually gradient points if you're creating gradients You can actually there's a live update. So as I move the Anchors around it'll it'll pull the gradient around for me right on the canvas preview while I'm working Because of the new blend fun framework that we recently got into we have many more than normal compositing modes that we would have expected There's 10 new blending modes pass through linear light Burning vivid lights pin light anyone know any of these exclusion If you don't you will these have been in some other imaging software for a long time But now we've got a pretty complete list of Blending modes color labels and layer attributes. So this is actually the new this is actually a new layer Dialogue now so we have full tagging color tagging for layer creation So you can tag layers by color or name and then the different kinds of blending modes The legacy ones are still there of course and then all of the new ones as well We have some improved Photoshop file support now. We can do things like full pass through Support on large and complex Photoshop files. I don't remember who it is. It's working on that But they keep working on it. So we can having a much better import for Photoshop Coming from Photoshop Kind of writing to it, but that's a different story now We have a full set of raw importing now in the past we do you uf raw And they will remember using uf raw back in the day importing a raw file in the game uf raw hasn't really been updated Now you can use dark table or raw therapy Table there be wonderful projects when you go to open a raw file directly from GIMP you get a this is this window that you're seeing Here is actually dark table So you get a full dark table instance fired up to make your adjustments modify your raw file get it all going it's a bring it on in and We're not far at the moment from having that imported raw image be Cashed in a way that you could go back to the raw file modify it some more and it'll replace the stack in the later for you Right, which is very very nice because I have a back-and-forth workflow. This is similar for those of you that don't know This is a similar thing from Adobe camera raw to Photoshop, right because Photoshop doesn't open raw files. You knew that right? You knew that right Photoshop doesn't actually open raw files. It's camera raw Full set of metadata IPTC XMP GPS and DICOM metadata the DICOM metadata stuff for image medical image processing, but full metadata support reading and writing now, right? The CIE lab Anyone know what these are CIA lab CIA LCH, right? So we're doing a full set of lab and LCH support now Well, what's cool though is is that you can decompose and recompose to any of the lab and LCH plus you can extract any of the Channels fuzzy select some of the tools now can begin to use LCH color modes when they're doing their selection Before you were clamped to sRGB as viewed now with the gaggle change and L battle changes We can do that LCH can now be used instead of HSV and color selection tools And some of the blend modes can be based on L if this is not if this is all great to you I'm happy to tell you more about it offline. I have to put everyone asleep What's that? Booth 2 13 tomorrow. I'm sure we're got inkscape and gimp in the same booth. That's where I'll be come talking to me about it So what happened is is that in the past couple of years? We've had a couple of crowdfunding Efforts by a two pretty heavy-duty developers in the project you can always donate to the game project But these guys are looking to support themselves fully through their crowdfunding efforts So even Coloss, which is better known as Pippin In the mailing lists and an IRC. He's the main guy responsible for gaggle one of the only is all the debarcy Ross the other guy that's arrayed it's doing the other It's really like two guys that are working on all of the core of camp at the bottom of everything But his latest bit of efforts have been working on multi-threading for gaggle to improve the speed quite a bit He's got a g-cut video editor and gaggle gaggle is kind of a node-based Graph of image processing you saw it if you're here this morning with Tom's nodes for laid out this similar idea He actually uses gaggle if I were if I recall correctly those were gaggle nodes as well So this is the same thing that's running gimp on the back end And then John Page Paj Is working on animation in gimp Zemarmot and I have a link to that later But a lot of his bug fixing in gimp and gaggle has been over the last year has been found phenomenal one out of five Commits in the whole year last year was entirely him for bug fixes and enhancements in gaggle and gimp There's no longer going to be years between major stable releases We're going to be releasing on a much shorter cycle and we'll be maintaining the stable and development branches in unison Where it makes sense. So if there's features or bug fixes that were available in dev We're not going to just throw away the last stable release Those will get backported the last stable release as we move forward Unless it's something that would require a complete re-gutting of that last table release and we'll wait for the Next point release and we're starting to write these docs as soon as possible a Lot of bug fixes are coming up in 2.10 along with all those features that we saw including things with like XCF Delta's and the gimp motion the XCF Delta's it'll make smaller XCF files right now They're huge huge files, especially in 16-bit or 32-bit integer or float the file size balloons out quite a bit Gimp 3.0 much later It'll be a complete port to GTK 3 assuming we don't go to 4 But that's a conversation that people far smarter than I have to have first Of all the new features from 2.10 will be there and there'll be some a bunch of refactoring and a bunch of API Deplication as we move forward kind of just sloughing off some old cruft to move into the future And we can't keep being beholden to a lot of really old things The dark developers on this list Mitch, Jean, Elle, Thomas, Manny, Oven and Debarshi Ray Those are the main guys like I said earlier that literally go to work all day come home And then hack on gimp for a few hours in the evening before they go to sleep This is all the gimp developers we have mostly Let that sink in because everyone in this room raised your hand when I asked you if you used gimp Right and I bet you we could go out in the hallway and find a lot more people to do it So we try but we're extremely resource constrained at the moment The bottom three Michael Schumacher, Alex, Prokodin and myself Do administration of the project PR outreach, I write tutorials. Maybe you might have seen one or two of them Manage the website and what have you but that's all we have for the most part There's some drive-by contributors But if you work on an open-source project, you'll learn that drive-by contributors are great for the few minutes that they're involved Then they're gone and someone has to take over managing those patches that they might have dumped in your lap Right, which is an increased workload on the few people you do have left, which means they have less time to do more things for you Oven Coloss is on a patreon Currently trying to fund himself Jean Pages. This is a mark one of the frames from Zamarmot his film Also has one as well or he and Ariane Han are working on it So all the features that you just saw were literally done by roughly those six people on that other slide And a reason that you waited six years since the last full release of the software It's because there are only six guys doing it in the evenings to give you all the features that we've seen so far So really my main crux here today besides telling you that we don't hate you. We do love you Here's all the cool stuff. We've done lately is to ask you to get involved and to help us get to 3.0 and beyond With those new features now, are there many developers in the room that that might consider hacking at game? Raise your hand if you're a developer in some way And would you consider it? Joining that project more importantly everyone that doesn't have their hand up when I asked that can still contribute a lot because if you Had meant if you'd noticed Ryan's comments earlier of one of the first pillars in his comment was to make them aware Make people aware that there's a thing here with free software that you can use I need this help code is only one line out of everything we need in this project that we need help with constantly I need tutorials Right, it could be the greatest piece of software in the world if someone can't figure out how it makes sense to them to use To help them do something cool. They're not going to bother with it I need to help evangelize that you can do something cool in some way with it, right and and So I need help with documentation This is easy documentation is easy How does how does unsharp mask work go look at it figure it out? In a few nights you could write, you know half a page that would explain in the manual how unsharp mash it work That's a contribution. We could absolutely use tutorials. How did you do this cool thing? Matt Lee was up here with his all of his material for his open movie and one of the questions was You know if you gave me the blender file that along with all of the raw video file I could maybe figure out why you might have made decisions to do things a certain way a K. A. It will help me to figure out why and how you did a thing That's the essence of of writing tutorials and documentation to be quite honest evangelize and showcase works That was something that Ryan also said show off those good things Right if you have a great piece of art, even if you don't think so post it tell people hey I used him to make this Right. I had I had a Where'd she go there? I Used him to make this I did use him to make that that's a screenshot from my workstation Show people that get out there and show them that they don't know that Right because most people's impression is oh, I can make a again. I can make a mean That's what gimp's good for not good for professional work, whatever that means Support other people that are using it That should be a no-brainer Someone has a question try to help them and if you can't if you can't point them to where they can Like the community which I try to help take care of We have a few places for this and at the very least some feedback Hey, did it work? Did it not? Why not be clear? Tell us why we'll do our best. We care We want to do that We come back and say these features are available We need people to test them take five minutes and try to beat it up if it crashes let us know Right, we can't do this in a vacuum. This is any any open source project by the way This is not just gimp, but good solid feedback that makes sense and is targeted helps developers far more than you can imagine Far more than you think if you're not a developer Then if you're a developer you say when I could really use people to test this and give me some feedback and bug reporting so That's a couple of thanks. Thank you guys for putting up with me My voice gets monotonous when I start talking for a long time and it puts some people to sleep. I apologize I'll try to vary it here in the last like five minutes just to write it out on a high note at the very least A thanks to Alex Prokodin who I stole almost this entire set of Images and user interface slides that are all in Russian. Just yeah Michael Schumacher if you don't know him this guy's he's got the heart of a saint because he's on the front lines every day dealing with people that are mad way mad more more angry than you guys are about gimp He's and he's always nice and he's always kind and he's always reasonable. I've never seen the guy lose his patience ever It's amazing especially for the crap a lot of people put him through and then the rest of the gimp team that I did not mention There are other people that do small contributions over the years and we carry around legacy members Vila Pat see Simon buddy that's been here since you know in almost the full 20 years that You know had some small commits every here now and then and help out where they can I'm Pat David are there any questions Feedback and bug reporting how? What's the best way right now bugzilla and there's an address for it on the website. It sucks We're moving to get lab with the rest of known Yeah, so you'll have a much much better user interface for Interacting with the developers with features and bug requests Yes, absolutely now I'm buggy back. You can still give that on git lab Or on bugzilla if you want to IRC or reach out to any if you can pat david at at gimp.org That would be and I'll let the team know they love hearing good things Or bad things as long as it helps them make things better so about 20 years ago there was a lot of alignment between GTK and gimp How close is everybody still as far as that goes? I mean back then it was you know the same the exact same people were working on both yeah ex full-time Yeah, is that still a thing or is it sort of separated? Yeah, it's weird to everyone knows what gtk stands for right? Everyone knows it gtk stands for I mean so gtk and gnome and gimp It's the gimp tool, right? It was basically they Peter Hated that we didn't have UI to deal with and built gtk originally so that none Because at least if there is I haven't seen it with the gtk team Okay, so the interaction between us on a daily basis gtk folks is not that much Usually because we spent a lot of our time like right now the main thing holding back to 2.10 release and a lot of cool Things that you're seeing is getting gaggle finished So we need to pour all these things to gaggle gaggle has nothing to do with gtk Whatsoever and the widgets that you're seeing are more or less standardized at the moment from the cool kit We're using so no not as much as I'd probably like to be involved in but that's just what I've seen from Oh you had a question I can repeat it if you just want to tell me it. Yes Gimp.org slash tutorials Yes some shameless self-promotion Pixls pixels dot us us It's a photography community specifically But we've got a lot of the dark table devs are there the raw therapy devs are there the digit cam devs are there That's a whole bunch of all the if it's photography related Somebody from one of the teams is hanging around there doing something So if you have questions we have a lot of users that have a lot of experience from a photographic standpoint If you need to build a flyer we might not be able to help But if you come in there and ask about flyers as part of the gimp team I'm gonna tell you specifically hey ask over here. They'll might have a better answer for you So we have a lot of cross pollination so But gimp.org slash tutorials should be your reference. I've been trying to update that by the way There were there were some tutorials on there from no kidding 20 years ago, and there's there was 50 tutorials I had to blow away because I couldn't track down the authors anymore to get clearance to release them is because the new Gimp website is entirely CC by SA on all the content So we're not publishing on the site unless it's a free to use and reuse And I couldn't get clearance from a lot of old tutorials, so I had to mark those separately and move them off so We've made some headway or some new stuff there I do yes if you go to the tutorial gimp.org slash tutorials at the very bottom of that list is a legacy tutorials link And when you go there, you'll see all the old legacy tutorials I would love if anyone wanted to go and grab an old tutorial and then redo it and freely license it for me with new Images and new text. Yeah, that would that would absolutely help Yes, is anything on open collective or any kind of bounty program anywhere? We had that I Feel like we had tried that for what was that for? Yes, we had tried that it I got about half funded and then petered out So only half the work was ever done, but nothing else has been put on open collective yet We don't really have a cohesive plan at the moment for how to move forward for funding to maybe move into more Accelerated development we would like to be able to reach a point where we get at least one full-time dev and one full-time administrator Right someone to drive the boat basically and coordinate our efforts. We're trying and we're not far from that at the moment But we just have not gotten there just yet But if you want to donate gimp.org slash donating is always Basically write a check to the gnome foundation and just say it's for gimp in the memo field and we'll get it or come help even better Right just spend a little extra time helping us triage bugs or you know sort some things What do you think you still think it paints you I'm sorry See still think it paints you maybe maybe a little less Maybe you understand if we try but sometimes you piss us off. I Have a question Pat. Yes, I really want to try two dot nine dot nine Is there some new fangled packaging format like an app image that I can get from somewhere no By the way, if you do want to try a development build which I highly recommend when you go to the download page for gimp now Give dot org slash downloads There is now a link at the top that says this is all for stable gimp, which is ancient Click here. You go to the development section you can get the development builds and we have an app image and Us a flat pack what some other fancy new word that's everyone likes snap hear that one a lot Do we have a snap? I'm not gonna mention maybe we don't But you can go get the development version now, which is the sexy fancy, you know, you don't look at my cat But this sexy fancy version right here. This is available right now for everybody Windows OS X or just about any flavor if you don't want to build it yourself. There is an app image and a flat pack And actually I'm you what did I get last night? You got I got the flat pack you got and Andrea's app image. That's right. Yeah I believe his name on github is a Ferrero Nine something something Andreas Ferrero It's wild the people you meet an open source. I met him in at LGM one year He's packaging gimp Development version along with a bunch of plugins and things like that his full-time job is this he's a PhD scientist at CERN All right, man. You must have some time blowing holes in the universe Who we don't hate you and we're trying the problem is that the product the project's not dead We're not even on life support We're happily trucking along and honestly if nothing changes We got ten people that are gonna be happily trucking along still trying to make a cool image editor with cool features If you rely on it or think you'd like to see it do other cool stuff come and join us Even if you just hop into the IRC room and hang out Right. It doesn't take much a lot of us doing a little bit ends up with a really awesome thing Which is how we got here now with him a lot of people put a lot of a little bit of time in all through the years And we've ended up with a really neat product. I think so far or at least neat project any other questions. Come on Yes, so if you come in writes you can write in the gaggle language to do filters So if you're looking to add filters to the project for us You can work within Pippin's gaggle framework to write those filters, right? Yeah, kind of but I mean you can also extend it with scripting like script food Which is a tiny scheme you could do Python if you wanted to I'm more of a script food person because that's what I cut My teeth on a long time ago scripting again, but you could use Python as well and yeah Well, we've actually talked about redoing the interface in JavaScript or typescript whatever the name I don't know. I can't keep up. I'm too old But there's other things you can do like I can't stress that enough if you can't code come and hang out write me write me If to maybe write me 500 words about some feature that you like That's it a blog post for us every little tiny bit helps right Take a photo when you thought it came out cool share it with me Let me know I'll send it to me personally a pad david at gimp.org I'll make sure it gets out to the proper channels and people see it and get credit for it And we start priming his engine of there's cool things you can do just take a little bit of effort to try it And maybe be positive. Don't be mean We have enough of that already any other questions. What do you think I? Want you to leave thinking we don't hate you does anyone still think it paints you I'll come sit on your lap and you do Spend 10 minutes doing support for us on any platform. I feel like we have a particularly interesting Group of users. Yeah Yeah But come help me Then if you can just make five other people not think that we hate them. I call that a win. I Call it a win and I'm looking at a room with I don't know how many people are in here And nobody's lynched me yet Nobody's asking about changing the name That's the thing I'm probably the most impressed about Yeah Yeah, it's no fun here. Look use my photo. It helps it puts it in better context. Yeah Any other questions from anybody feel free or anything at all? No He's asked Yeah, he's asking me the project gimp shop if it's keeping up with what we're doing Holy mackerel Anyone know what gimp shop is? That's right The original author of gimp shop lost the domain a Squatter bought it and filled it full of malware. Do not go to gimp shop. Don't even bother to look it up Just just don't No, he's and he's since tried and that he tried for like a year to get it fixed He just couldn't and he finally said I'm sorry So our current stances don't go anywhere near it. No the application binary should be considered Poisoned at this point Yeah, I wouldn't trust it at all and they can they bank on our name We don't really have a trademark in the name We haven't quite figured out how we want to do that yet So it's hard for us to enforce those kinds of things through any kind of trademark policy or something like that Despite repeated calls to the free software foundation about how they manage their canoe, but yes Yes, or just you know, somebody that can spend 50 hours to help us with some trademark and Questions, you know, how we should how we should manage that Anything else Go try 2.9 if you haven't look my emails right there at David at gimp.org You can write me directly if you want if you have a question, you can write me directly I'll answer every question you get. It's it better if you ask it on pixels dot us though I don't have a pixels dot us slide But go to pixels dot us and it's a little bit better