 I will implement programs that will cater to the youths, save the state from self-centered politicians and, of course, build a better Lagos. This is the word, or these are the words I beg your pardon, of Fransjá Dohahti, governorship candidate of the African Democratic Congress in Lagos. Tonight, through this process, plans for Lagos State and preparations for 20 terms from the elections. This is Post-Politics. I am Mary Annabelle. The gubernatorial candidate of the African Democratic Congress ADC Lagos State, Fransjá Dohahti, has promised to implement programs that will cater for the youths and save the state from self-centered political class. He made the promise during the unveiling of the former Lagos magistrate, Rosemary Guiwa-Armo, as his running mate for the 2023 governorship election. He described Guiwa-Armo's emergence as a clear preference for integrity, equity and justice in leadership and governance. And joining us tonight is Fransjá Dohahti. He is the governorship candidate of the ADC in Lagos. It's good to have you join us in the studio. How's your name pronounced, Dohahti or Dohahti? Well, in Lagos we actually pronounce it Dohahti. Dohahti. Okay. I learned something really. Let's cut through the chase. I'm sure that many people have interviewed you and asked you several questions like this. Why do you want to be governor of Lagos? Well, I, like many others, recognize that Lagos is operating far below its potential. Many of us grow up in a Lagos that we remember fondly, a Lagos that in many ways, you know, represents something that we actually need to aspire to get back to and then move beyond. It is clear that we have suffered from the failure of leadership in Lagos. It is very clear. And this is not evidence from Fransjá Dohahti. It is evidence that we see from independent assessors of cities like Lagos. So recently there was an Economist Intelligence Unit report that comes out annually that ranks cities in terms of their development on a global scale. And they ranked 172 cities. And Lagos was ranked 171 out of 172, last but one. And what does it measure? It measures cities and ranks them by those factors that affect the standards and quality of life of the citizens. So infrastructure, health, education, culture and environment and stability. And when they measured all of these things and then presented a report card for Lagos, Lagos came 171 out of 172. This is after 25 years of being ruled by one, essentially one ruling party. So if you rule a state for 25 years and you get a report card at the end of 25 years saying that out of the 172 cities across the world that we looked at, you came 171. I think it's a clear testament to the failure of leadership. And do you think that you can bring that turnaround that the, in quote, one party has not been able to? Yes. How do you intend to do this? So absolutely. And if you look at it at the root of this difference between where we are and where we ought to be, is the fact that the leadership of Lagos has generally not acted in the interest of the average citizen. How so? What we have seen is more of a self-serving government, a government that has made Lagos work for a few rather than for the many. It's a government that has increased inequality as opposed to a government that should be reducing inequalities and ensuring that nobody gets left behind. We have seen an increasing situation in which the needs of the leaders and those that are close to the leaders are put paramount. And we see that even in terms of the resources that the leaders of the state have historically accumulated for themselves. And I think this is, I'm not saying anything that anybody does not know in Lagos. And I think it is evident that for that to change, people like us, and it's not just me, is others also who feel they have something to contribute, who have a background of a track record of leading with integrity, who feel they have the character and the competence, step up to the plate and say, you know what, it's time to contest for the public office because it is the occupant of the public office that must address the needs of the people. We need people in those seats who understand that those seats are a sacred trust for the benefit of the people. And it's not something to be utilized for a narrow interest, not something to be utilized for yourself or people that are close to you. It is something that is vested in you for the benefit of the people. We need people who have the character of leadership because leadership has a character. A lot of politicians wax very lyrical when they want to run for office, when they're trying to get to our votes. They tell us all the right things. In fact, I realize that manifestos are not even written by these politicians. People are paid to write these manifestos. So it sounds all fine and dandy. But then when you sit on that seat, things begin to change. So why should League Oceans trust you? What's the background and what's your antecedence? What have you done that people can hold on to and say, well, we can put our trust, even if that's of a mustard seed in you, to give you this opportunity to vote or rather to run for this office? It's a good question. I come to this with 30 years of experience in the private sector. I have led organizations. I have led three companies as managing director and CEO, of which were national companies employing hundreds of employees nationally, managing assets in the hundreds of billions. So I have a rich record that people can go to. And those companies are still there. They are still running. So people can go and and essentially verify. So I have a verifiable record of leading with integrity and occupying positions of power. You know, they say that if you want to test a man's character, do not give him adversity, give him power. A lot of the time what happens is when people occupy positions that they don't have a lifelong preparation for. We see that unravel when they occupy those seats. This is not leadership. It's something that has been a lifelong experience for me. And I think that I'm very clear as to why I'm seeking public office. I had a very successful career in private sector, which I left to come and do this because as a legation, I think that Legos, having had a generation of leadership under one entity, could have been so much more. And I think that Legos can actually go from third world status to first world status in the span of a generation, given the things that we are endowed with. If we have the right leadership and the commitment to make it happen, I think it can happen. You're one man. And I mean, of course, I'm here to bring out all the answers from you. You're one person. As much as you say to us today that you have had great background, a great background in the private sector, it's totally different, a different ball game when you come to the public sector. I mean, managing a business is all great, but then managing a state is a big deal. And let's take, for example, President Buhari came and he said, oh, he had the best interest at heart. He wanted to change Nigeria. Can we really say that any change has happened between then and now, knowing that he's one person? And you're one man. How do you intend to break the establishment if you're able to? How do you think that you can change those things in hopefully four or eight years? So I think that, first of all, the idea that the public sector is this whole very different place from the private sector in terms of leadership, I think is overblown. And I think that that is part of the problem. I think that if you come to the public sector thinking that things cannot be done right in the public sector or there's a way they do things in the public sector, you will get that outcome. A lot depends on what you as a leader bring to, and it's not different from coming to an organization. You set a tone and the tone that is set at the top has a way of permeating through the organization. I think leaders need to come into public office with that mindset, not with the idea that we will conform to the way things are done in the public sector, but that we will bring the best of leadership attributes, the best of expectations in terms of integrity, in terms of the way in which people fulfill their responsibilities, in terms of the way in which people are held to account. All of those things which we know to work, where you have organizations of people, you create the right incentives, you create the right rewards, you create consequences for wrong behavior and you insist and you insist and you push those changes through. Government, as you've noted, is not a one-man show and obviously we're not going to run a one-man show, we're coming in with a government and there's a cabinet, but it's very important who is at the top because the person at the top not only sets the tone but also determines the kind of people that they surround themselves with. If your objective is to do a good job and to do a good job for the citizens, that is what you will solve for. You will look for people to surround you, to work with you, to assist you, to deliver that mandate. Who are of a like mind? Because that is what you are solving for. If, on the other hand, you're solving for something else, if you're coming there to feather your nest or to further the interest of the people who facilitated your coming to power, then the people you surround yourself will reflect that objective. You may want people around you who are very loyal to you, who will not talk back to you. So leadership tenets are ingrained, they are learned, some are intrinsic. But if you bring them to an organization, whether it's a private sector organization or a public sector organization, you can get the right results. And I think that that is what is lacking. It's not the case that we've lacked intelligent people in government. It's not the case that we've lacked intelligent people in government. We have Nigerians. Nigerians are very smart. Even those who have negative intentions are also smart. But how do we end up having the worst of us? I'm using the word loosely here, leading the best of us. Because you just alluded to the fact that we have very intelligent people. How come that we do not have those very intelligent people come to bear when it comes to leadership in the public sector? So I mean, failure of leadership is not only a lack of intelligence. It's also a lack of the will to do the right thing. So you may be intelligent, but you may not have the will to do the right thing. You may be intelligent in the wrong direction. There's positive entrepreneurship, there's negative entrepreneurship. So part of it is about the intention. But I think your question is a larger one and there are other dimensions to it. And it's part of the reason why we are where we are, which is that the political process historically in Nigeria has not been friendly to people who may want to come with that agenda of positive change. And if you look at it historically, you will see for example that there's been a preponderance of candidates who have one office coming from two of the political parties. And the process of emerging through those parties often is such that by the time those candidates emerge, that process, a lot of the time has involved certain compromises and has robbed them of the agency to make it to bring a change agenda by the time they get there. Often we see Godfatherism in some of these parties and you will see the case where even the sitting governor is not a principal, is an agent in the sense that someone put him there and he cout ous to that person and we've seen it. One of the things that was very clear to me when we came into this race was that we're not going to pursue this agenda on the platform of either of those two preponderant parties because we felt that we wanted to come through, contest for the office, make an appeal to the people of Lagos, win their votes and their trust and get there not compromised with a free hand to bring what is needed to improve the lives of the people. I really wanted to leave this for later but since you brought it up, let's go there. I mean I'm sure that I'm not the first to ask you why the ADC, but you've given us a reason that you didn't want to go to. But then what's the structure of the ADC in Lagos? I mean because some people, I spoke to people who said oh it's a three-horse race, some say it's a two-horse race but then it's these parties and the others for when these conversations are being had. What are the chances that the ADC could even rise to be part of the horse race in the first instance? We don't have to rise to be part of it, we're already part of the horse race already. So let's interrogate that. Many will look at Lagos and let's talk about Lagos specifically because I'm on the agenda of Lagos. Many will look at Lagos and see Lagos as an APC state. It's been ruled by APC or its antecedent entities for 25 years. What is going to make that change? Which is a shade of the question that you're asking. What we say is that you have to question this narrative of dominance. Why do I say that? The present governor of Lagos, Lagos was elected with 700,000 votes. That's all. Lagos as a 2019 had 6.5 million voters. So for every one person who showed up in the poll, in total by the way there were only a million votes, he got 700, all the others got 200. Now what that tells you is that for every one person that showed up, five people stayed away, one to five. So it tells you that it's a narrow minority actually that elected the so-called ruling party. And that what has happened is more a case of people staying away, being apathetic, voting with their feet away from the process because they do not believe in the process, et cetera. Yet those who showed up voted for the ruling party. Many of those who showed up voted for the ruling party for a number of reasons which we can delve into. But if you look at it critically, and you consider 2023 in relation to 2019, one of the things that you see is that there is much greater voter engagement in 2023. We see a lot more fervor, a lot more interest by voters in getting, in being a part of the process, getting registered, et cetera. I'm sure you see it. I have seen it. People lining up coming back days and days to get their voter cards. People are resolute that they're going to be involved in this process. There are a number of reasons for that. But remember a number of things have happened between 2019 and today. We've had answers, we've had so-and-so, okay. I mean people are really at their wit's end. People are fed up. Rich are fed up, poor are fed up, middle class are fed up, old are fed up, younger are fed up, middle-aged are fed up. So people... How does the ADC buy into that? So people want to participate. Now, most of the folks who are coming out to register to line up because they're dissatisfied with the Stato school are not coming and lining up for two days to get their PVDC, only to come and vote for the ruling party. That is our contention. Our contention is that 2023 is going to be very different. 2023 is going to be very different. And so if you come to 2023 thinking that there is an immutable, unchangeable way in which elections happen in Lagos state, I think people will be very surprised. But you see again, just as you see, I have spoken to a few governorship candidates and they're also all banking on the fact that, oh, well, everybody's happy now. Everybody wants to vote. Everybody wants to participate. But then you have to be able to map your crowd. So what are you doing to buy a big chunk? And I'm using the word buy loosely because I mean, how do you get... Exactly. How do you get the attention of those people? Because we have the SDP, we have the Labour Party, we have the PDP, we have the APC, and then there's you. So of course, you have to look at... As much as you see people open to new ideas and new political parties, it's not just you who are... No, and it should not be. It should be a contest. And that's part of what we are doing. We're having the conversation today. People are assessing me as they are listening to me. And people are very, very clear that in 2023, they're not about voting about parties only. They're very interested in who the candidates are. They want to look at the candidates, they want to hear them, they want to look into their eyes, and they want to make the judgment as to who do they think is going to act in their interest. It's not about coming and spewing manifestos. We've heard that before. Who do they believe has the character? Who do they believe has the track record? Who do they believe has the sincerity to act in their interest? So this is the case that we are making. And we're saying to Nigerians that, look, 2023 is in their hands. And people just need to understand that it is in their hands. And I think increasingly they are. And ultimately, we will make our case to the people, and the people will make their judgment and will make their choice. What I can tell you is that these folks who are coming out, who haven't come out in previous elections, they are not coming out to exercise that mandate frivolously. Most of them are thinking carefully about who they want to vote for. Hmm. Let's go into your blueprint and what you want to do for Lagos. What do you think is most expedient for you to take on if you were to resume office as governor, if you were opportunity to be governor of Lagos State? What would be the first things that you would address? Okay. So there are a few things. The first is the reform of the government sector. We think there's a need for a lot of reform there. First of all, we think civil servants need to be better paid. So when we come in, we want to increase the salaries of civil servants as part of a program of getting those salaries to a reasonable level, to give them a reasonable level. What would you consider reasonable here? Well, you know, I mean, I know that Lagos has a great revenue base, but how do you intend to do that? Because even the federal government has come up to say that they are going to increase salaries across the board for the civil servants to somewhat measure or rather stay hand in hand side by side with the realities of today. But then there are states who would hear this and say, well, we also want our money to be increased, but they do not have the same capacity as Lagos. That's exactly the point. So in Lagos, we should not be sitting around with civil servants, government workers that are not paid a living wage because the state has the means and the resources to improve the compensation of its workers. Now, you see Lagos state's budget in this year, 2022, is 1.7 trillion. That is the budget of several states combined. Lagos has the means to do a lot more than it is doing. If you look at the proportion of the budget that is represented by personnel cost of government workers, it is very feasible to do what I'm saying, right, because it's a relatively small component of the whole piece. You see what I mean? So we'll come in, we will do an increase when we come in and then we'll have a program over a couple of years of trying to get those salaries commensurate so that people earn a decent wage. And then we will insist that people serve the people with integrity accountable and are transparent in what they do. And then we will set in the rewards and we will also put in the consequences. We will ensure that people operate according to codes of conduct, which by the way exist. It's not as if we're going to write any new rules, of course, they are there. We're just insisting that people commit to them and essentially abide by them, right? So for example, the fact that you cannot, you should not, if you're sitting in a seat, be using that seat to benefit yourself, giving a contract to a company that is close to you or that is yours, is in the codes. It's called conflict of interest, right? We will ensure that people abide by those things. And we will insist and we who are the top most levels of government will hold ourselves to the same standards. Part of the reason why people who checks you, whoever checks the civil service and we will have well, they work for you. No, no, they are independent entities. They are independent in an organization. You are the CEO. You are not above the law because they are audit departments. They are compliance departments. They are risk departments. They are surveillance departments. Do you understand? So if you set the right systems in place, it's a function of who is at the top. It's a function of who is at the top. So that's one, government reform, right? So pay people well, insist. And by the way, this thing about paying people well, you may be surprised to find that your actual revenue may go up. So it's not a zero sum game, right? Because part of what happens when you don't pay people well is that they find other ways of supplementing their income. And a lot of the time, those things that they do rob government of revenue. You see what I mean? And take that money away into private pockets. So it's not a zero sum game. It may actually not even cost as much as you think it. It may actually even increase revenues. So that's government reform. It's foundational. As part of that, by the way, I have to tell you that one of the things I will do away with almost immediately is this practice of having people, private organization, collect government revenue and then keep a piece of it. So in Lagos State, for example, we have an entity that does that, collects tax revenues on behalf of the government and keeps a piece of it. We will remove that because government has a whole internal revenue service. We will come back because we need to talk about, I'm sure you're talking about Alphabetta. Yes, I'm talking about Alphabetta. We'll talk more about it. Well, we're still in the studio live with the ADC governorship candidate here in Lagos State. I hope I got it right this time. We're getting closer. We'll be right back after this break. Stay with us. It's so plus politics and we are discussing, of course, 2023 elections and the governorship race in Lagos State. Our guest is the ADC governorship candidate in the State, for sure. Well, I got it right this time. Now, before we went on that book, we were talking about Alphabetta. What exactly is it that Alphabetta is doing that does not sit right with Lagos State? Well, I mean, it doesn't sit right with me and with us. We believe that the state, a principal activity of the state is the collection of its revenue. It's a principal activity of the state and we have a whole state internal revenue service that's devoted to that effort. Now, I see no reason why we should have a private sector entity essentially being contracted to do that work and then keeping a share of those revenues, right? Because it's the people's money. It's the people's money. Who owns that entity? Who are the beneficiaries of that entity? Where is that money that is being withheld? In whose pockets is it ending up? It's the people's money. Right? So we should unwind it, empower the state internal revenue service, pay them well and let them do their work and then we put in the rewards and the consequences and we hold people to account. If they do a good job, we reward them. If they do a bad job, they have consequences. If they steal money, we prosecute them. We will run the state as a state should be run. It's not a private sector entity. So we will unwind it. We will unwind it. It's simple. And if there are legal processes that we have to go, I'm not saying we'll come in and not abide by the law or what have you, we will go through whatever legal processes are required to unwind it and we'll unwind it for the benefit of the negotiations. Can I talk a little bit more about, because you asked me about that program. I talked on government reform and then you helped me then. To alphabetize it. Let's talk about other reforms that you would bring. So a few things. One is infrastructure and under infrastructure you talk about you talk about transport, talk about power. Let's talk about roads first. So roads and transport infrastructure in Lagos, as you know, is a very sore point for Lagosians. Lagosians spend hours in traffic. Lagos has one of the highest commute times in the world. There's a report that says that the Lagosians spend half of their lives in traffic. It's a lot of time. And you know, it's not just the time and the inconvenience, there are health consequences when you have traffic of the nature that we do. It affects air quality. It affects people quality of life. If people drop in there, you may not know why they're dropping dead. But some of this has something to do with it. The problem in Lagos, I think, is that there's a few things. One, there's too much focus on the road infrastructure at the expense of rail and water, which could be valid options for transportation. Lagos is blessed because we're a coastal city, so we're on the Atlantic. But it's not just that. We have the lagoon, which also runs almost land-wise across the state. So that is also a veritable blessing that we can use to move people. If you have boats that go to Coridu and back. So you have boats that go to Coridu, but those are little boats run by private sector entities. Many people don't feel comfortable going in those boats. Many people don't. Others do, but what we need to do is to raise that service to a robust mainstream form of transportation. So that if you take certain key routes, for example, if you took to Coridu to Victoria Island, where a lot of people make that commute daily, and you had a robust ferry service with decent vessels that people felt comfortable going on, you would decongest a lot of traffic just by doing that. I lived in a coastal city in a developed economy, and it was very like Lagos actually. And in my office, some people came by road, some people came by ferry, some people came by rail. And it wasn't a function of how your social economic status. It's a function of what was convenient for you based on where you lived. It's what I mean. So we need to do more in terms of this water. But and then on rail, before I come to road, because you know, road is also important. And on rail, we have to interrogate what this government has been doing on rail for 15 years. We have to interrogate it. Why is it taking 15 years to build one axis of travel? Why? Other countries have done this, they've moved on. It's the whole thing appears to be straddled in secrecy. We don't understand what the transparency, what the accountability is associated with it. Why is it taking so long? Let's know. And if we're not doing it right, who is doing it? Why are they not doing it? What consequences have emerged as a result of they're not doing it? And so on and so forth. That's real. But let me also say that a big part of our problem is that on the roads that we do have, there's too much disorder, chaos, indiscipline on the roads. Yes, we have some roads that are bad. Many roads that are bad not contributes to the problem. But there's a great deal of indiscipline. But we have traffic workshops. We have LASMA. We have the police traffic officials also. So again, you have to ask yourself that what is the actions of these officials? Are they acting fully in the public interest? Are they reasonably compensated? Are they there to make people do the right thing? Or are they there to find people who are not doing the right thing and then get a gratification for it? Which we see a lot of the time. Again, I'm not telling people anything that they don't know, that they don't experience. But LASMA officials signed a contract. They were given a job. They know what that LASMA means. That's the job that they were given. Now, what they do as opposed to what they should be doing is what we're bringing to question here. But I don't think there's a question as to them knowing what their job should be. See, all government workers know what their job should be. Exactly. Whether they do it or not is a function of the incentives you give them, the rewards you put and the consequences that you bring. And then other things like training and those kinds of things. Those are the things that determine whether people do what is expected of them or not. Nigerians, you see, it's a function of the context you set for people is the way they will behave. So a lot of the time people talk about Nigerians who they are disciplined here. But the minute they go to London or New York, they are like the most disciplined people. They conform. They obey the rules. They do well. Because the system reinforces that behavior. And so we have to create the right systems from leadership through to systems, through to processes, through to rewards and consequences that will then drive the right behaviors. The other thing about the road infrastructure is that there are some actors on our roads. So some of the towns, some of the union workers, road transport union workers who are a menace on the roads, right? Now the job of any self-respecting government should be to curb the activities of those entities to the extent that they are detrimental to the interests of its citizens, right? One of the reasons we have a problem is that we do not see government, the current government taking the role that it ought to do in covering some of these entities. And we would argue that part of the reason why that is is because government and some of these unions are in bed with one another. And the unions facilitate the process of government coming to power. How exactly do you mean? Can you clearly state this? So these unions tend to be, these unions tend to be very active in the political, in the political realm, and the leadership of some of these NURTW tends to be very active in the political realm. They tend to be utilized, right, by some of these mainstream politicians in their political activities, in driving and driving voter behavior, right, intimidation, right? They are used, right? And this, you know, so that, that almost like incestuous relationship between the unions, right, and the government in power is such that you can almost think about some of these entities as being part of the power structure within the state. You see what I mean? And if they are part of the power structure within the state, then the government is beholden to them, right? So some of the actions that it should normally take to curb excesses, it would not be in a position, or would not be, or would be unwilling to take. Now, we are saying that that should not be, we are saying, so we are saying that we are saying that a government that is elected on the backs of the people, right, the five out of six that we talked about, if two of them come out and say, you know what, we're going to select our leaders based on, and we're going to vote for them in mass willingly of our own volition, right, because these are the people that we think should govern us, right? As a government, when you come to power on that platform, right, you have only one mandate, and that's the mandate of the people. You see what I mean? So any interest that is inimical to the interest of the people, you are in a position to deal with. How do you deal? It's the how I'm interested in, because you know in Lagos, we have the homoniles, we have the agbers, we have the NURGW, we saw the drama that happened earlier this year, I think also last year, fighting the infighting within themselves and who's going to be king and who's not going to be. How do you go about it? Because that's, I guess that's what Lagosians would be more interested in. How do you deal with it? We want to know the how. Well, so I mean, what you have to realise is that any behaviour that is contrary to, that is disorderly conduct, any behaviour that creates a health hazard or safety hazard on the roads, there are already existing laws against some of these things. So it's a function of enforcing the laws that we already have. Right? And government just needs to ensure that we enforce those laws and we prosecute those that we find to be falling afoul of the laws. By the way, you know, union activity is fine, right? There's nothing wrong with union activity, right? But sometimes what you see is that even the leadership of the unions are sometimes exploitative of their own memberships, right? So even the transport workers on the roads, the commercial workers on the road, the commercial transport workers, you see that a lot of the time, they also are victims of this process, right? If you talk to them, they will tell you that there's a process by which they are required essentially to make payments, right? Daily, right? Which are not insignificant payments, right? And a lot of them, if you talk to them, are groaning under these things and they view them as, they view them as themselves and they are in fact victims. But the legacy government has come up recently to say that they had, that there's no payment of whatsoever because there was a report that made to the news that they were being told to act to pay certain monies and support to raise monies for the candidates of the APC, I beg your pardon, in the state. And the government of legacy states has come out to say that that's not true. Well, I'm not talking about that. They have debunked that. No, I'm not talking about raising money for elections. I'm not saying that they are out there to raise money. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm saying that everyone who operates a commercial vehicle in Lagos is daily, daily accosted by a victim of the unions and the leadership and the titles of the unions. And even people who own commercial buses will tell you that the amount of money that they have to pay for each day that their bus is on the road is almost extortionary. And this should not be. Okay. Okay. Let's move away from that. Let's talk about youths. You spoke earlier on about the ensars. It was because young people were tired of being brutalized or wrongly profiled by policemen. So it started as let's put an end to bad policing. And then, of course, let's put an end to bad governance. And then we saw what happened October 2020. Now young people are pushing for a useful leader. They want a young governor. They want a young leader, someone who would understand the plight of young people. Can we say that your government would be open to empowering young people and creating that environment for things to go in their way? I think that the answer to that is certainly, you see, if you are paying attention, obviously, you know that there are more youths in our population than any other bracket. In fact, our median age in Nigeria is probably somewhere around 17 or 18, right? That tells you that half of the population is actually below that age. So you cannot ignore that the youth, right? Because the youth are, they are central. They are a future. They are actually an energy and a vast and viable resource. But there are many nations that are aging and they are dealing with the opposite problem that we have, right? They are looking for ways, you know, they are trying to manage their societies because they have too many old people. So we have actually what is an asset, but we cannot get the benefit of it or it will not be an asset if we don't treat it like an asset, if we don't treat these youth in a way that allows us to harness and fulfill the full potential of these youth, right? So giving them the right opportunities and ensuring that we give them the right education, which is one of our other planks of our policy. Talking about education, there was a research that showed that less and less people enrolling in public schools, this dwindling number of people, and of course that shows that the level of education is somewhat low or abysmal. What will you do in that regard to, you know, bring back the love for public schools? Yeah, so in education there are a few things. People vote away from the public educational system, as you've just said, because they don't have confidence in it. They don't have trust in it. Even people who can't really afford to send their kids to private schools do everything that they can to put the kids in private schools because they don't trust the public schools. A similar thing is true by the way of the health, the primary health care facilities that we have in the public sector. But we think a few things are needed. One is that the curriculum itself needs to be reviewed, okay, and this needs to be an ongoing process, but we need to bring the curriculum constantly into the modern world to ensure that we're raising and training children that are well-capacitated for the environment in which they find themselves. They will find themselves, okay. Secondly, we cannot run away from teacher quality and teacher quality issues. And there are lots of very good teachers in our public schools, but we also know that there are a number of bad eggs. We also know that a number of teachers who have no business being around our kids and teaching our kids. And we have to do something about that and address teacher quality. We also have to increase vocational options within the schools because not everybody is suited for a desk job or will find a desk job or is gifted for a desk job or even wants one. There are people who are gifted to work in all sorts of other ways. And we have to expand the range of vocational options that are available that our kids can tap into. And we have to tie this to our other policies such as our policies around supporting small and medium-scale businesses and the ease of doing business because those small businesses are the ones that ultimately end up employing two, three and four people in a commercial city like Lagos. That is where the bulk of employment will come from. And the vocational training in the public schools also needs to support that activity. Well, time is not our friend. I would have continued this conversation. But lastly, just in a sentence, I need you to answer me. Recently there's been some drama coming from the national. The national chairman has ousted your national presidential candidate. The presidential candidate and the national working committee are saying that, well, your national chairman has been there for 17 years. Again, there always is a trickling down effect for whatever happens at the national. What do you stand on this particular issue? My stand and I stand in Lagos is that these are constitutional issues and they need to be dealt with. Ultimately, some of the parties are already in court and the court will make rulings on the matter. So some of this may even be subjudiced. But it's important to note that political parties are like families. In fact, they're very large families. And there's no large family in which you will not have, from time to time, disagreements. And so, yes, we have a disagreement. And people need to work out and there will be different views and different perspectives around it. But the important thing is that there is a process that people are going through to resolve that. It may be contentious, but ultimately we'll get to the solution. Well, Funcho Darti is the governorship candidate of the ADC in Lagos State and he's been speaking to us about his ambition to be governor. Well, we will say thank you again for being here. We wish you the best of luck. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you all for being part of the conversation. Before we leave tonight, I would like to leave you with some of the highlights of the week. In case you missed it, I am Mary Anna Kun. We'll see you on Monday, talking for development. Any kind of false information in the media I think is just trying to fulfill its own personal ego. But technically, there is nothing of that being done at the Labour Party. We are preparing for our campaign organisation and at the same time making sure that we get down to the grass roots to coordinate our affair because the Nigerian people are already showing so much love for us and we are grateful for the love that they show to us. But Anna Kun refused to recognise a candidate whose primary they did not witness except the court otherwise direct. So what you see going on is not a loophole in the law, it's politicians trying to flex the law subjected to different judicial interpretation until it gets to the Supreme Court where there will be a final judicial punishment. That is what is going on We have less persons who are in the gray area. You saw what happened during the registration process. You saw a turn up of a lot of persons. These were first time persons who were registering. These were people who were going to change their PVCs. These were persons who were going there to complain. These were first time persons who were coming to register for the first time. So a lot of persons are interested. A lot of persons who want to ensure that they vote. Let me tell you the truth. I have not voted. Ever. We mentioned where are the roads in Lagos. These are just reality. Go to the interland. Go around Lagos. What you just need is few hours of rest and you will have me be able to move around Lagos. Recently a video is going viral regarding the experience of people around in the juleki look of me. Precisely how we are here. They say consistently over the years they will be having this challenge that whenever there is a little rain there will be too much good luck within that exit. And it's not limited to them. Come around now. Just as we speak now, move around Lagos that you see. And you see the challenge. You see the terrible state of infrastructure in Lagos state. Now Jando is bringing a human face to governance. He is a Lugosian and he knows the state like the back of his hands. And so we are going to correct right from this scratch the deficiency that we have observed in the area of governance is a major concern to Jando. And number one principally is that even the governor of the state will not take decision on his own. He needs a second level of approval. That is the best thing to correct. No matter how good a governor could be as long as he is from APC he will be unable to perform because there is a power behind the scenes and every obnoxious law that does not care whether people perish as long as you want to govern will be reviewed. That is clear. It is clear. Negotiations need governments with human face. The Andorff government will not hesitate to take decisions to make sure that the state runs properly. But it will also accommodate the people because it is in government for the people. It is the government of the people. And so as much as we ensure order and the legal egalitarianism we will also ensure there is empathy. Empathy and that is what the Oulu government lacks. That is what this government lacks. You will just shut down a market just because some few individuals violate government regulations. Not minding that there are thousands of people whose livelihood is attached to what they make daily from the market. That is that is wicked. That is insensitive. And look go and check the number of people who are found capable of these offenses belongs to the downsording members of the public.