 Rachel, I'm so sorry. I think if you're talking, you're muted. That is amazing, because the first thing I said was, wow, we all entered into the space of silence. OK, so welcome again into the incredibly meta experience of day two of the PAL summit. How extraordinary. What else I said while I was muted by our technology was that I am so excited we could enter the space with a breath. This morning, we had an affinity space on fatigue and rest. And if you were not able to attend, I hope you were finding something restful. If you have not rested yet today, I hope you find a space for breath, even if it was in the moment of that mute. I would also like to welcome our collaborators in the session today. It is staff and specifically company management staff are part of this group from the Public Theater, who has been our faithful partner and sponsor to make this summit possible. So I'd like to thank everyone for coming into this space for this dialogue today. I have community agreements that I'm going to be sharing with everyone. But first, I would like to pass the space over to Timania, who is going to start us off with our land acknowledgment. And Rachel, if you are able, if you wouldn't mind dropping it into the chat. Absolutely. I will also actually share it on the screen, Timania, as well. Great. Thank you. I am coming to you from the land of the Lene Lenape, people whose historical territory includes the places cologne newly known as Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Long Island, and the Lower Hudson Valley. For more than 10,000 years, the Lenape people have been stewards of these lands, as well as the River of Human Beings or the Delaware River. Over the past 250 years, many of the Lenape people were forcibly removed from their ancestral lands and dispersed throughout the country, though some families remain. These families continue the traditions of their ancestors to this day. The violence that removed the Lenape people from their homeland is a powerful part of the history of Pennsylvania. And we acknowledge that in this moment, that we work and we live on these very lands. This is the story of our entire country. We encourage you to learn about the lands where you live and work, and the history of the people who lived there before colonization, many of whom still live there today, though they are often starved of the very resources they protected for so long, including access to housing, sustainable food practices, safety, clean water, and the land where they once lived with their families. This information was provided in part by www.leneape-nation.org. Thank you. Thank you so much. And now I would like to share our community agreements. And I will also share them in the chat as well. In the PAL space, as a session participant, you commit with us to welcome all caregiving responsibilities and realities in the background or foreground of any meetups, phone calls, and exchanges, and embrace your life in our pursuit of productive and supportive practices. As a session participant, you commit with us to creating a transgender and non-binary affirming space, all language that includes but is not limited to mother, parent, dad, caregiver, et cetera, applies to any individual who identifies with them in that term. As a session participant, you commit with PAL to creating spaces rooted in justice and anti-racism in our structures, practices, policies, principles, and producing. As a session participant, you commit with us to creating space and supportive spaces for disability access and inclusion in all access needs present in the space. I would also like to share one other bit of agreement, and this is particularly because we are in a virtual space, and we're sharing digitally, that we prioritize safety over civility. So if at any point in the session you feel unsafe, please speak up for your own safety using your voice, the chat, or even private messaging me or a colleague if that feels most supportive, whether it's Zoom bombing or aggressions that may be micro to the outside but are not micro for your experience, we will honor your experience and engage immediately. So feel free to reach out to a colleague or anyone with PAL in their name privately, and we are happy to engage for your safety. I dropped that in the chat as well, wonderful. And now it is my absolute pleasure to welcome everyone to a conversation I have been wanting to have for a very long time in a more public way, which is the conversation of caregiving and company management. And there is a beautiful presentation prepared, and I would love to pass the space over to Garlia who is the producing director of PAL, but also a producer at the public theater. And so wearing multiple hats as usual and caregiving in the space today. Garlia, it's my pleasure for you to fill the space with your group and the work that you've done. Welcome. Oh, thank you, Rachel. This is exciting. And I, although I presented yesterday, it's like it's a little nerve-wracking, I think, because this is about something, you know, the different. I've got my colleagues here. And so we have spent some time really thinking about the conversation that started over the summer and just thinking about what that means at the public. And so we're going to share this of that, I can introduce ourselves to you and just kind of, okay, we have an overview. So I'm going to share the screen again. And shout out to Liza for this fantastic title of what we're calling care, taking care to the day takers. And I'm just going to go to kind of who we are and pass it off to Heather. Actually, I'm going to pass it off to Liza. Liza's going to take this. Hey. So thank you so much. Again, my name is Liza. My pronouns are she, her. I'm a company manager at the public, but some more of that soon. But basically this is a conversation as we were so beautifully introduced earlier around the intersection of company management and artist caretaking amongst parents and caregivers. So we are a collective of company management of folks from our affinity groups, our caretaker affinity group, and the multitudes of identities that exist within those groups. So everyone on this slide, please feel free, introduce yourselves. Hello, everyone. I am Heather Fickler, my pronouns are she, her. And I am a company manager at the public. So I work very closely with Liza and with all of these other beautiful humans on this list. So yeah, let's see. Hi, I'm Christina Hogue. I actually work in development at the public theater, but I am in the leadership of the parents and caretakers affinity group at the public and get to work with all these lovely people. I will also note I'm also a parent to two lovely boys in Brooklyn. And we did an intro, but I'm a Garlia, pal, public, Blackboard, Harlem nine, there's some others, some others there. And pronouns she, her, and a parent to two children. I'm Emily, I'm with Public Works at the public. I'm parent to one child who's about to go to school. So you're probably gonna see her for a second. And I'm also one of the leaders of the parents and caretakers affinity group. Asha pronouns she, her. I am the artistic programs associate. I also help curate anti-racism sessions for all staff at the public. I am co-facilitator of the BIPOC affinity group. And I'm not a parent, but I am a caretaker for my mother. And again, I'm Liza Whitmer. I am one of the company managers at the public. My pronouns are she, her. And I am not a caretaker of anyone in my personal life, but of many in my professional life. And that is how I am coming to this space. Keep having trouble with the unmute as I present. So we wanted to know about how you intersect with, with this space. And maybe that's something that you can, we can give you a few moments to put in the chat. If you intersect as a parent, a caregiver of non-child, a professional caregiver, someone who provides support via an institution or other. And it would be great to know who you are and who we have here in this space. And I'll give you a few moments to do that. You can hear my son is watching YouTube in the background. To give you a few more moments to everyone who's here. So let us know how you show up in this space. And as people continue to fill the chat with how they intersect with care taking, I also want to invite you to share what you hope to gain from this conversation as well. Lisa, it's not too late to join the path of company management. We will be happy to have you. Garlia, I see you're talking, but I think you're muted. You know, one day we're gonna figure this out. I'm gonna switch to the next slide. And then so we can, but please still continue to share what you hope to gain from this conversation and how you enter, intersect with care taking. Alrighty, so what are we doing today? What are we hoping to sort of accomplish? So we're gonna start with an overview of what the public has been working on. And then we will give everyone a little bit of time on their own to brainstorm some individual ideal needs as caregivers. And then we'll go into breakout rooms. We are a group of about 21. So I think we might do maybe two breakout groups of about 10 of us. And we'll have a chance in those sort of small groups to share, connect, brainstorm with each other. And then we will come back together as a full group to sort of share out some things that we've heard, some things that we've learned, what we might be taking away. And so that is just a little bit of an agenda that we've got for you as we move forward within this time period. Alrighty, what have we been working on? And I will kick this off and I just encourage my colleagues to please feel free to jump in as we go. Feel free to add and interrupt and all of those things. But I'm gonna kick this off. So we, Pal, I believe over the summer did a session with the public. I was on furlough at that time. So I wasn't a part of that. But as soon as I got back from furlough, Liza was like, we have to connect with Pal. It was incredible. We need to find a way as company managers to have a deeper conversation with them. And so we did that recently, we went back in August. We met with Rachel and had an incredible conversation. We took furious notes and Rachel so graciously answered all of our questions and gave us, we walked away with so many things to think about. And we are so, so grateful for that. And these are just sort of some of the things that we walked away with, that we are thinking about, that we are remitting on. A big one is a caregiving budget. And that encapsulates a lot of things. We're working with our Caretaker Infinity Space and through the other connections that we have with the department or the organization, particularly with our finance team of how we can institute an actual caretaking budget. So what does that look like? Is there a lump sum of money that caretakers, and that's inclusive not only of our staff, but also our artists that they have access to? And is it membership to probably babysitters? Is it providing financial support for babysitters? Is it, that money can sort of be used how people need it, I think? And so we're in the early stages of figuring out what actually having a caretaking budget looks like. I don't know if anybody else on the team wants to sort of jump in on that one? Yeah, I mean, I think, so something I think about, and was the fact that I've shared before with the Pal community community, and I think a lot of people know, but I received the first black mother artist care, I gave her support from Pal. And so that was the first time I had ever interacted with a budget line or any funds for care, for giving, and so to think about that as something that could happen right before I started at the public was certainly something that I thought, oh, how do we talk about this more? And I remember at the first Pal summit, which was at the public in per person back in the old days, was this conversation around how to create space in the budget and even two, three, a year years ago, just knowing that, oh, this is a thing people are starting to think about, and how can we make this more formal? So I definitely, producing my roles a lot of line producer at the public, we work very closely with the company management, so we definitely have these conversations. So I'm like, how do we, just thinking about like how can this happen? So yeah. I will say also something that I shared with Rachel in our original conversation, I think that this is a vulnerable thing to say, but I think it's an important part of the conversation, personally, when I started having these conversations and it intersecting as a budget manager, as well as a caretaker and a person who navigates artist negotiations all the time, a fear that I was really having was, how do I know that people won't just take advantage of a line like this? How do I know that people won't come in and just say, like, well, they're getting money, I need money too. And how do I actually stem that wave, that perceived wave of need? And I sat with that for a while. And I really, I think a part of this work and an important part of this work is really understanding that we need to trust people when they ask for what they need. And as an arts administrator and as a person who is very invested in making strides towards genuine caretaking and what that looks like, part of this is really understanding that we need to trust our colleagues and we need to trust for people when they ask for things and that you step, and you will learn and it's a learning curve, right? And you try a thing and you find out that, actually, we allotted way too much money or actually not enough money. And then we know for next year and these things do not have to be perfect when you roll them out. And that is a lesson that I was very grateful to kind of learn on this journey. So if there are any other arts admin folks out here that are also in this headspace, this is something that I was very grateful for in this particular arena. And could I just jump in really quickly? Just to add to that, just the idea that when you were speaking to that fear that you had, that that's just helping to see that if that does come up, how are we not taking care of other people in other ways that this conversation helps us to think about even beyond like, I know we're thinking about caretakers and parents, but we did have this conversation just centering humanity. You know what I mean? So when those things come up, it's like, oh wow. We need to create a space for this group of people who are dealing with this. So conversations like this allow us to highlight where we may be missing in other areas and not be aware of it. Absolutely. Thank you all for jumping in and adding on. Moving on to caregiving space. So we already have lactation rooms at the public. We have two spaces, so we have one for each space. And where we're at right now is just how we can make them better, how we can sort of streamline the use of those spaces. And part of that is bringing our HR team into those conversations, really making sure that the organization has a clear understanding of the use of these rooms and making sure that they're also supplied with what people may need, many fridges. And Garlia came up with the beautiful idea of artwork on the walls that are kid-friendly or potentially toys to keep kids entertained and sort of ways to make, because the lactation rooms can feel sort of cold and sterile. So how do we make them feel a little warmer and more inviting? And in addition to that, we're also trying to figure out family rooms or spaces in our building where caregivers can meet their kids or where caregivers of non-children can have their family members be. And in full transparency right now, COVID is making this actually really difficult, particularly because of kids, because kids are not quite yet fully vaccinated. The public is, we are struggling with actually providing that space on site. So we're working with our health and safety team to sort of figure out what options there might be. But ideally, we hope that there will eventually be these spaces at the public that we can offer to our artists and our caregivers for a place they can, to meet a being or even just meet a babysitter or to have a snack with your kids on a break or what sort of, what these spaces can really look like. Yeah, I think that's it about space. I am also, I'm just being cautious of time. So I'm just gonna move on through these next couple of points. Also, of course, talking about caregivers of adults of non-children, I think that our, speaking personally, I think my instinct when I think about caregiving is to naturally think about parents first because that's what I hear about so frequently. And what we are also trying to do is really remind ourselves that there are so many levels of caregiving and it requires a vast need of access points. And so while we don't have all the answers at all, making sure that we are remaining open-minded for what that bucket of caregiving actually means and it expands so much, so much further than parents. Cross-department discussions, we're really leaning on our colleagues as well, particularly, you know, company managers at Liza and I, we are not caregivers in our personal lives. And so we really rely on people who are to, you know, offer support. We ask questions, we, as we mentioned, we're working with our caretaking affinity space to be like, what are you working on as staff members and how can you make sure that we are in alignment for what we are providing for our artists because we don't want to give access, give our artists access to something that our own staff members don't have access to. So really making sure that we are working together to make sure that we're all trying to sort of help and support each other. And then the last big thing is communication. This is new, these are new systems and because we don't have all the answers, all we can do is ask and to be transparent with our caregivers, to ask them what they need, you know, what is, you know, if someone comes to me and says, I need money for a babysitter, okay, tell me how much that is because I don't know, I don't know what it typically costs for a babysitter. So tell me how much you need and let me figure out what I can do. We have welcome packets where we are trying to lay out as much of this caregiving information as we possibly can that we get to all of our artists. The other thing is just encouraging the questions because something else that we have learned is caregivers don't tend to ask, I have found, we sort of find out after the fact, or we find out, Garlia, I actually hear a lot from Garlia. Garlia very frequently be like, oh, did you know that this person has parenting caregiving needs? And I'm like, no, I didn't. And so just finding ways at every single intercept, whether that's at the first rehearsal where we're talking to everybody or in welcome emails or on the first day of tech, just consistently reminding people, we have these services and let us know what we need because we can't provide something if we don't know that it's needed. Always, Garlia is always scoping out parents. She's very good at it. But yeah, communication and transparency, I think is the biggest thing that's gonna really help us develop these systems as we move forward in our caregiving practices. I know I moved very quickly, but I would love if anybody else wants to jump in and add more. Just to support, Heather, what you were saying about encouraging the questions, something that we have been specifically, the very real and true reasons that often caretakers have felt unable to speak up about their needs is because their needs have been stigmatized and because they have not been traditionally honored or it's not a thing that people feel like they're allowed to ask for. So as we are adding more comprehensive caregiving with traditionally stigmatized needs, such as mental health, we are finding that explicit, not just saying, we're here for your needs, but explicitly saying, we have mental health practitioners available to you. Here are the very specific services that they can offer. And then, very similar, as Heather's saying, as we're adding this in, we are figuring out exactly how to name the services that might be available to caretakers that we're finding that as explicit as we can be, the more explicit that we can be with the services, the more comfortable people may or may not feel. And of course, we also recognize that this is centuries of undoing of stigma. This is a tremendous amount of undoing of stigma. And so we know it's not gonna happen overnight, but it is already moving, which is really nice. We've already had conversations about caretaking needs that have not happened before, so it's slow, but the expliciteness is useful in these regards. I also just wanted to share, to just build off of that, that this is such a great moment to reconsider things because we're not in the inertia of how we've always done things. And in the past, there's never been an opportunity to have a conversation about a family room at the public, because space was at such a premium. Right now, we're reimagining how we use the whole building in every way. And so this conversation can kind of dovetail into that. And it just makes me wonder if many organizations might be experiencing that kind of overall change that creates space for things to be different. I just moved maybe prematurely, but do we want it? Okay. So we want to really start having this kind of conversation with you, and so I want to invite you to take... We're going to change this from 10 minutes to five, to really brainstorm and think about your needs. So if you are a parent or a care, you've got to give her what are your ideal goals and dreams around care, taking in your institution, how did care... So that's one question. And the next one, to think about how did care take an impact your work experience over the last 18 months? And then another thing to think about is if you provide support for caregivers, what support do you want from your institution? So just take about five amendment minutes here, and then we're going to go into breakout rooms and I'm going to assign them. We will have a PAL rep in each of the two rooms and a company manager and then a parent or caretaker from the public. So that's how the rooms will be made up. And so we're looking forward to having this conversation with you and then we'll come back and for the rest of the time, we will have a discussion in this room with all of us and streamed as well. So for anyone who is also watching online, if you are not in the Zoom, we will be back after the brainstorm to share and be in the space with you as well. I'd also like to raise up that our language here because we are coming from the point of view of an institution is kind of institution focused, but if you are an artist or an administrator that does not intersect in an institutional way traditionally, I personally am also super curious to hear about how these needs apply outside of traditional institutional structures. And so if that applies to you, feel free to, please include that experience in this brainstorming. So we're gonna break out in just like two more minutes while you continue to brainstorm and then I will throw you into two rooms. Okay, I have everything else all set. So hold on to your Zoom screens and you're gonna head into a room now. Arlia, can you let us know how long we'll be in rooms, please? Yes, we will be in rooms for, I said until 12, 30. We'll be in rooms until 12, 30. Okay, here we go. For anyone who's watching this either on our Facebook page or just streaming on HowlRound, we're taking a breakout session that's gonna be a couple of minutes. The group will be returning back at 12, 30. And Gali, are there any maybe questions that the people that are tuning in can think about during this time? Yes, thank you. So I just shared on the screen what we'll be doing in the breakout rooms which is introducing ourselves, sharing our needs, goals and hopes and then brainstorming with each other for additional ideas. Perfect, thank you, Gali. I just wanna welcome everybody back. I know that we're kind of coming in and I hope I did not cut anyone off. I really was trying to do it in the most mindful way but sometimes closing up breakout rooms is not a very peaceful process. So I apologize if anyone was cut off. And I think we are all now back. And so we've just concluded, we've just had this discussion for everyone that is streaming. We just had this discussion. And I'm gonna end this shared screen so we can all really share our space with each other for the last like 22 minutes or so that we have to get together to really talk about what we heard, what we're learning, what we're taking away and just more questions that we have. I also think that everyone might need to be spotlight once again because that probably didn't went away. So I will spotlight. Barley, can I ask, are you asking the whole session to share? Anyone who comes on to speak? We're all showing our camera so it's great. Rachel, yes, I think were you asking if we're inviting anybody to speak? Yeah, we would love to. Anyone who feels comfortable, who wants to sort of feedback things they're hearing, they learn. Yeah, we just sort of want to be able to open up the floor to anyone who wants to share. Heather, were you speaking? Cause you're on mute. Oh, you're on mute. I didn't hear you. When? Oh, now I've heard you. We heard you. It was me cause I turned it down because when I was popping it out of rooms I had to be on Zoom somewhere else. Anyway, you don't need to know all of it. I have five computer savings, fine. Okay, so I'm going to pass it back off to Heather. Thank you, Rachel. Yeah, we just want to open the floor. No one obviously is required to speak up but we would just sort of love to hear from people what you heard in these breakout rooms, what you're learning, what you're maybe taking away. Things you maybe want to expand on. And sort of in these last 20 minutes, see if we can have a little bit of a sort of roundtable discussion and brainstorm session on how we can better support our caretakers in this industry. So I have a question. It's really interesting because Liza shared with us some of the things that they do maybe on the first day of rehearsal to make people associated with the production aware of what the public can offer. And then there was discussion earlier about making sure that the full-time staff also can benefit from the same support systems, which is important. How do you use offer mental health support? I mean, caregiving support, you talk about the budget, right? And maybe it's a reimbursement thing. But, and I know it's a work in progress, but it's really interesting that that got thrown in there because I think it's incredibly important, but also incredibly complicated. Our mental health support specifically? Is that what the question is? What are our mental health support? How we provide mental health support? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we actually work with two women who they are the clinicians of the diaspora. And we adore them. Clinicians of the what? Of the diaspora. Oh, okay. Yeah. And they are both mental health practitioners. And we, on the first day of rehearsal, we say, you know, we know that this work can bring up a lot of things. And if there are things that are happening that you feel are impacting your ability to show up and do your job to the best of your ability, let us know. And we can bring in therapists, we can bring in mental health support. And the public pays for that. And we do make it clear that this is not to supplement your own personal therapy, but also recognize that this work is challenging and this work can bring things up and we should be able to support that in the best way that we can. So we adore them. They are wonderful humans. We're very grateful to have found them. So yeah. The organization that they funded, Clinisher, or that they founded, Clinicians of the Diaspora, is another way that they kind of intersect. Their goal is to connect clients with clinicians of in multiple areas with clinicians of the global majority. So there are oftentimes, we often find that our actors are connecting with them and talking with them and they, you know, make recommendations of different kinds of clinicians that they might be looking for that might be more able to provide the personal background experience that would make somebody who does not feel traditionally comfortable in spaces, in medical spaces. Thank you. Super interesting. Thank you. I would say for staff as well, we do have self-care days, which I think is something people are using for mental health reasons or for other reasons. But if you're feeling overwhelmed, right now I believe we have still two a month and they expire at the end of the month but you get two every month. And that's in addition to PTO days and sick days and vacation. We also encourage our artists to use the Actors Fund as well. And the Actors Fund is accessible to anyone who considers themselves an artist. You don't have to be an actor, you don't have to be a designer. You don't really need to explain yourself, honestly. But if you work in this field, you can use the Actors Fund. And they, it's not just mental health. They have a very, very wide range of resources for artists to access. I had a reason to buy it as an artist. Yeah, because I just want to echo that because I really get to engage in these spaces as an artist. So thank you for that breakout space to be able to talk about that. And just it's so affirming to hear the echoes of how and one of the session participants brought this up and I just want to echo it but the invisibility factor of this burden is like so much of that artistic death. And so just to know, like I know that you, part of the conversation we had at first is like, well, how much is enough, et cetera. But just to know that there's a community inside your organization who cares to know and who is engaging with those questions makes the burden visible and alleviates it. And I'm speaking as an artist. Yeah, it's just so much heavier by yourself. So yeah, I just wanted to uplift that as one of the things brought up in the room and just to encourage everyone who's even thinking about tackling any of these pieces, the perfectionism of like, we have to do it all at once is like, no, just let us know that you care and you're gonna be there. And it's like the perfect first step even as collaborators and colleagues. Rachel, I'm wondering if there's anything that we can do that just thank you for that vulnerable statement and that truth. And I'm wondering if there's anything that we can do in addition to connect our company is to the caregiver affinity group. So they know that there are more people that they can ask questions to that are outside of the company, that are outside of company management that they can ask culture questions to things like that. That's really useful. Yeah, it's actually the thing that first popped in my mind with the prompt in the space. So when I traveled to these random cities in the country to make a beautiful place, I have three months to make friends. And so forget about guessing who else is a caregiver who understands. And I said, the most supportive times have been when I've entered a professional space knowing who the other caregivers are because then I automatically know where the safe spaces are even to articulate what my needs are for that area. And I always get welcome packets with like recommended restaurants and like where to go shopping. And I'm like, you know what I would love? It's like, who's the contact person for your caregiver affinity spacing? Can I come? And can we have lunch? Like that is free 99. And it just builds relationship and creates safe spaces radically through affinity. And so yeah, that's just my ask. I would also say just as we're talking, this is just at the forefront of my mind. It's just that the transparency piece just feels very important back to like, the encouraging questions, but just considering that everybody is approaching caretaking from different capacities and not everyone one feels like they're a caretaker. Like I recently had to step into this understanding that I am one given on my mom dealing with health complications and how I'm supporting her. And so sometimes even just mentioning it when you're not prompted from the individual can help somebody even realize, oh, I do have that need that I didn't even think I could ask about. And then also considering back to that everyone's coming from a different place is that considering like, you know, race is a factor as well. And as a black woman, like I mean, well, I wouldn't, but there may be a case where, you know, walk into a space and not wanna advocate and say like, I have this because you're already considering other things that might be a barrier for entry. And so if it's already on the table, then that can eliminate anybody kind of feeling like they have to shrink for reasons other than just being a caregiver. I was really struck in our space by the question of artists, especially freelance artists feeling and becoming invisible to theaters after they become caretakers, like they become less considered almost like they left town kind of. And I was just thinking about how do we have this conversation with our casting teams and our new work development teams and try to kind of really embed in that, they have a kind of particular gatekeeping power for freelance artists and how do we really help them understand where we all might have unconscious bias when somebody disappears for six months because they're on parental leave, but then they really are still an artist, you know? And so that was just something that was on my mind. I came late, so apologies, but I'm enjoying, I'm really with you on this discussion about invisibility and caregiving and how this can mutually exist in this space. And I think it does, you know, there is something to bringing this into the development process because as a writer coming into this, early in my career, being told that write what you know, but if I write my experiences as a mother, that makes me be seen as less than serious about my career. So yeah, just affirming and making a safe space to talk about this and making it come from the work itself is I think really important. So something that we also talked about was the loss of talent that comes with people leaving the industry because they're caregivers and the money just not being enough and then not being worth it in so many ways. And this is just a personal reflection, but, you know, being a parent is something that I hope to be in the near future. And it's hard for me to, I'm a company manager and it's hard for me to not get jaded at moments knowing that, you know, I'm trying to stay motivated to keep doing the work and to keep, you know, pursuing these goals and not getting jaded and thinking, there's not gonna be a space for me here. Like when I'm ready, I'm gonna have to leave the industry. So that's been a barrier for me in getting the work done. So I'm really, I'm just reflecting on that and the loss of talent that comes from people who have to leave our industry all the time and just wanting to stick around to make sure that there's change made so we don't have to keep doing that. Anyway, just reflecting. Thank you. Or Amanda, oh, go ahead. I just had a follow-up, I was gonna say Amanda or the choice that then people are making, which is like, maybe I don't have children, you know, which I've heard friends say, like my, you know, I don't wanna lose this career and so that's gonna put something else off too. And I just had this like reaction of like, why are we like having to like be told of like keep something a secret. It's just like, you know, hush, hush about your life, the way you would share many other things. It's really odd to me. Like what is that, what does that have to do with anything? Like if the work is being done and actually being informed and more filled out because your life has other dimensions to it, especially from around performance and art history and art, I think it's so strange. I had such a like reaction, like what is this that we're telling people like don't talk about that? Like the way you could just talk about what you did over the weekend, I could say my kids are cute or did something funny. Like I'm here, I'm here working. Like what is this weird side of me that I have to sort of keep hidden anyway? Well, and if you don't mind me jumping back in, I'm thinking about this in terms of my partner and my partner is a writer and actor and male identifying and I mentioned that to say that. I feel like as a woman, my instinct is, I want to be a parent and I'm gonna figure that out. However that's gonna be, that's my personal thing, not as a woman. What I'm getting at though is him, he's kind of in this institution been trained to think like, oh, well, if I'm going to be a parent, that's gonna have to be after I've made my career. And like that's not even, it's a conversation we have often of like, okay, well, is one of us gonna have to sacrifice? Are we both gonna have to sacrifice because this industry isn't made for us to be able to do that right now? But also, I just, I'm trying to think of the intersections here and not just as someone who is able to, someone who will carry a child one day, but also just for all of us as future parents, like how has the industry kind of trained us to keep that invisible? And how can we continue, name it so we can kill it? Yes, how can we continue to communicate this out? And throughout our community, say like, no, this is okay, we have to stand together to make these changes. Andra. I see Susan has her hand up, go ahead. Yeah, hi. So this is kind of a 180 from where we've been going, but we have welcome packets. I'm sorry, Susan, she, her, I'm the associate general manager at Northern Stage in White River Junction, Vermont. And so we have welcome packets for our guest artists and yes, Rachel, love, you're like, great, I know where to shop and know where to eat food, but where can I find the closest pediatrician if I need it or those kinds of things? And so when I said White River Junction, Vermont, I'm sure many of you went, I don't know where that is. And we are a pretty rural community and we often use that as an excuse to not provide resources to be completely frank because they can be really hard to find because of where we are, we don't have those big city resources. So I would just love to hear any advice on kind of finding those resources, the keys are in the room. And so if anyone has any like national databases of places that you can look up or if you are in similar situations or communities kind of what paths you have found, similar even pre-COVID daycare was a huge issue just in our community in general and now like in COVID, it's even worse. So yeah, not using it as an excuse but trying to find those places and where they exist and good resources so we can put that information in our welcome packets. I love that, Susan. And also something else I remember Rachel telling us when we first met with her is not only about spaces on site where caregivers can meet their children or the people that are taking care of but places in the neighborhood as well. And so, Susan, I actually know White River quite well and that one square mile block. And so are there businesses that you can talk to, what sort of space like the public is right near a Starbucks? So can the parents meet their kids at the Starbucks or are there businesses you can talk to that can potentially be spaces where caregivers can also meet their, the people they take care of? I think I'm really taken by the power of community and so making those visible, making the community of parents and caregivers around as visible as possible, even if it's just in the welcome packet, it's listing. Like here are a couple of people you can reach out to because I think we tend to, because of the need, because it's really needed, we have those little communities. That's why you get the little like Facebook groups of wherever you live with the parents group or your school group or you and I see, we create these little bubbles that we are our safe spaces but we feel like we sort of have to keep those under those safe spaces and it doesn't get to come into work and affinity groups have really started to find a space but really making that visible for the whole staff and making that visible for the staff that is there permanently. I have the benefit that I'm a permanent employee so I get to work with Emily and Gurley and like regularly in the affinity space but also there are people like actors and artists and override that will be coming in in a temporary space but like that they know that that exists even if they show up one time to one meeting because I think that only improves my perspective is that I wanna hear what their experience is like and I don't get to hear it right now because I'm siloed away from that. So they feel lonely over there. I only can think about the space that I know. It's just the power of us community being together and as much as making those connections and I wrote down the Rachel your safe space radically through affinity like I'm fully absorbing all of that right now. I feel like we could do an entire summit on this and I think we knew that when we started and I'm looking up and we literally have one minute to go but maybe just if anybody has any one last thing to say before we oh and Rachel has a resources list to share. So I'm gonna hand it back over to Rachel and the rest of the PayPal team. I am half of a lot of things. You are fully, fully all of those things truly. First I wanna start by saying thank you so much to our collaborators in this space, the public theater for sponsoring the summit but also creating a dream come true of a conversation on company management and caretaking and for your generosity and your investment in what the potential can be and for the breakouts. I thank everyone for attending and sharing so generously. I am sharing a list of links and resources in the chat. I will also be sending out an email today with a Google doc with these resource lists on it just like this conversation. They're building blocks for application. So there is a session tomorrow. It's an ask me anything. Anyone's welcome to join if you have questions on these and I wanna pass it now onto Adriana who closes out our spaces beautifully. But once again, thank you so much for this conversation where we could be transparent and collaborative on solutions. Thank you so much Rachel for that and for everyone joining us for this session. Right now we're going to take a little break between sessions so everyone is welcome to turn off their cameras or to do a stretch break, get something to drink while we prepare for the next session. And I will stop the streaming for anyone that's watching on Facebook Live and on HowlRound. I'll stop the streaming and then I'll start it again in about five minutes. Thank you everyone. Next session is on fundraising if that's helpful. Thank you.