 Thanks for staying with us. It's still the breakfast on PLOS TV Africa right now, like I promised, we are being joined by Professor Chris Wokobia, Jr., the convener of Country Fest. We were supposed to have him a lot earlier than now, but due to some unforeseen circumstances, we're bringing him up now. But the headlines will never grow old because there are things that we're still concerned about, and he's here to talk with us on some of these headlines as well. Good morning and welcome to the program, Professor. Good morning. Good morning. It's my pleasure to be on with you. We sincerely apologize for the little confusion we had earlier on. I was wondering whether I was the Hitch or the Hitch Allah Ainah. Okay, so let's start with a worrisome thing, but which is also on a lighter note if you ask me. One of your neighbors, I'm talking about a resident of Abuja, who happened to be a former governor of Kogi State. He was whisked away yesterday when he was supposed to be arrested by the EFCC. I'm talking about Kogi State ex-governor. So police, that's on the punch newspaper. Police men, Kogi governor foiled EFCC attempt to arrest Yahya Bello. I'd like to hear your comments on that. I listened to all the guys try to address the issues. And then I think that there are a few things that the EFCC must change with respect to their programmatic. Maybe in the course of what happened yesterday, they finally talked about it, which is go get a warrant of arrest if they want to take him out or take him to custody. You know, the point is that what happened yesterday was very messy, was untoward. And I think that like nobody is above the law, nobody should be abrasive, nobody should be, should handle the law without some decorum and sense of decency. To block the whole street, you have neighbors, you have people who would otherwise go to work or people who were coming back from work. I think that the whole thing was, the shenanigans was wrong. I do sincerely believe that proper invitation should be sent to the former governor of Kogi State and the warrant of arrest that they have gotten should be executed with all sense of decency and decorum. That's the way to go. The tendency of the EFCC for dramatology for less proper conduct in execution of their jobs is lampunable. I think also that what is important is that the former governor of Kogi State should once invited go under the invitation and answer to the cases before, put before him. All right, so staying in politics, there's a small headline at the bottom that says APC drugs cannot judge before NJC over Gandhi Day's suspension. And now we know all that has been happening in the APC. In fact, there's the PDP one and there's the APC, there's Labour Party. There's a lot of rockers happening in all of these political parties and these are supposed to be people who are to lead in Nigeria forward. And we don't know why that's happening. But I want to get your take on this one, the fact that APC drugs cannot judge before NJC over Gandhi Day's suspension. Let me say very importantly, because that's in line with your question, that when people become largely uncomfortable with the nuances of leadership, they begin to ask questions. And like an ad form in the soil, it begins to burrow, it begins to make shifts, you know, that's why there's conflict and crisis if you like. And the APC presently, there is conflict and crisis if you like, the PDP, and we're trying to resolve the conflict and the crisis in the Labour Party. It's natural. People are asking for an era of responsible and responsive leadership. People are getting uncomfortable and impatient with failure and leadership. People are asking for due process and decency in the public space. And then with respect to the actions due to taking up the judge with NJC, there's nothing wrong with asking that any judge that you suspect has done something on towards should be investigated. I think it is the right thing to do. If you suspect that at some point maybe money have changed hands, maybe someone has done something on towards, you can petition and ask that the right thing be done. Okay, so moving over to the Guardian. The Guardian leads with poor funding model. POSITI stole $3.2 billion Eastern Rail project three years after. Now, the project was flagged off in March 2021 for delivery in 2023. It is to be funded by 85% foreign loan, 15% federal government counterpart contribution, and a $3.2 billion project has been stalled by funding. Now, what do you think of this? There's even the removal of old tracks without a definite plan for their replacements and that worries the residents. What do you think about all of this? The fact that we say yes, we want to create or build this infrastructure, but then you see years come by and it's not being done. Now, we also have the coastal highway that is to happen this year and hopefully it will be delivered in the next eight years. So if we're seeing a rail project not even being delivered into three years, this is another, an extra year. What happens to that project as well or what happens to all of the projects that we're saying we want to have in Nigeria and we just don't know, there's no definite plan on how we to be executed at the time for delivery as well. Roma, I feel you're concerned and let me say that until something proactive, until something effective, until something efficient and effectively done with respect to our contracting protocol, something like what you've explained will continue. I pray and wish that leadership will understand that congruent with the realities of an ever-increasing, ever-improving world is the fact that people do not just fund projects like we're doing here. There is corruption. There is less than a title, our contracting protocol and I'm saying this very seriously. In the new world, people are trying to joint venture partnerships with established companies that can fund this and then they build them, operate and hand over to government after some years. That's what happens all over the world. So when people begin to tell you about funding, the art of funding, low funding, you know that some people have signed up papers, collected 30%, 40%. Zogo talked about 10% tasks in 1966. Now it's 100% tasks. Nobody cares about country. Nobody cares about infrastructure and equipment. Nobody cares about due process. Nobody cares about decency. I think that going forward, we must tell government and leadership to effectively deploy and employ what happens all over the world. If you want to build a rail in Nigeria, for instance, and you have money and you bid for the contract, bring in the funds, build the rail, run it for 10, 15, 20 years depending on the agreement and then hand it over to government. People will pay, as they pay the toll, as they pay for their tickets, the contractor gets part of his payment and over a period of 10, 15, 20 years, he gets fully paid and hands over the project. So I think that the problem with our country, look at the second Niger bridge. It took almost 15 years. What are we talking about? Look at the Lagos Ibarone express road. It's taking almost 20 years. Now that we're talking about the east-west road and several other coastal roads, you know that until the contracting protocol, until the order of investments in contracts and infrastructures change, until there is decency, transparency and due process and all of this, we will continue to have stories like, oh, there's a diet of funding, oh, we can't continue to fund. The second Niger bridge was funded about three, four times. They blew rail in Lagos several times. The red rail in Lagos several times. The Ibarone Lagos express road several times. And those who have been involved and engaged in the licensing, nobody's been called to order. You know, I think that the time has come for us to begin to insist in the minimums due process, decency and transparency in the contracting and contractor protocols involving governments in the private sector. Okay. As we wind down, let's just take this one. I'm concerned about what really is the place of the title of government, which is the local government, where states can decide what to do to the local government, give them the money they think they deserve and keep the rest. And then now we hear this story on daily trust. It is that local government chairman, councilors, decry removal plot as Kaduna assembly trims tenor. We've seen that the local governments now are having like a three-year tenor instead of the four that it started with. And if the Kaduna state government or assembly is trimming those three years, I wonder what, how many years they will have now, maybe two years and all that. Why does the state have so much power over the supposedly independent local government, local government? Yamgu, let me say clearly that until we begin to think about how to make Nigeria work, the local government will continue to suffer. And the third tier of government will lose its life on essence. You know, naturally and across the world, every federation, every federalism, devolves power from top to bottom, and vice versa. Particularly with respect to revenue, it comes from the bottom top, you know. But unfortunately where you run a unitary system and call it a federalism, where you run a pseudo-federalism, state governments will continue to stifle and cause the local governments to a trophy. But what we must do, and that is why so many of us are calling for devolution of power, trophy scoffed realism, and restructuring of the Nigerian enterprise, if you were to have what we had in the first republic, where wealth comes from, bottom top, where the federating units are the ones who contribute for the running of the center, you find out that the local government is relevant, and you find out that development will start from bottom top. You find out that those who control the resources will be held responsible for what they do. But unfortunately, you know, like you noted, the state governments are beginning to stifle and squeeze life out of local government because as it were, our pseudo-federalism makes the federal government an almighty arm, and then the state governments are both beggarly appendages of the center every month, and they go to Abuja for federal allocation, and the local government is at the mercy of both the state government and the federal government. But until the right thing is done, our search for development will be like the wait for Godot. Until the right thing is done, the local governments will continue to suffer. I think that the time has come for the National Assembly, for those who pretend a political amphitheater to think about how truly our call for development will begin from the local governments, where healthcare, where primary and secondary education should devolve to the local governments, where inter-state, inter-local government's roads, where roads are the rural level and roads are the local government level are managed by the local governments, where resources come from the local government. Whatever wealth you have, you pay to the state government 50%, and for the running of local government and the state government, 30% to the federal government and 20% to a dedicated poll. Until that is done, our search for development, for growth, for prosperity will be distant. That's sad. All right. Well, this is where we have to wrap it up here. We want to say thank you for joining us. We apologize once again, and we just want to say thank you for sharing your valuable contributions. Thank you so much. The pleasure, my woman. God bless you, God bless Nigeria. God bless you too. All right. We've been speaking with Professor Chris Mostafa Wonkobiah. He's a convener, country-first movement, and we've just been taking headlines, making stories, rather, making headlines in our national dailies. We'll go on a short break, and when we return, we'll be looking at our next hot topic. Thank you for joining us.