 Welcome to a watershed moment, the community media program that celebrates the rivers and connected lands forming the natural circulatory system of our region. The health of these watersheds is intricately tied to that of the humans who live here and affect them. So we invite you to come along as we explore the natural landscape, observe the wildlife, and share the beauty minutes away from our homes and daily commutes. This series will introduce you to the organizations and to the passionate volunteers, organizers, recreationists, athletes, and scientists who work tirelessly to sustain and improve these watersheds. Welcome to the program. I'm Charlotte Pierce, your host joined by Robert Kearns. Robert is the Charles River Watershed Association's climate resilience specialist. Today we're discussing the association's advocacy efforts to remove dams and restore the natural ecology along the Charles River. Like many rivers across New England and beyond, the Charles carries the physical vestiges of our early industrial development, like dams. Now Robert, welcome to the program. Thanks for coming in. Thank you so much for having me today. Can you speak to why dams were created on the Charles River and why some are no longer necessary today? Yes. Thank you, Charlotte. There's a lot of dams on the Charles River, about a dozen on the May and Seminole River. And in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, there's over 3,000 dams that are currently not doing anything, not in any use. And a lot of these are historic mill dams, old factory dams that powered the Industrial Revolution. We know that the Charles River was sort of the start of the Industrial Revolution before going over to the Merrimack River and the mills there. So there's a lot of history of Industrial Revolution and mills and dams in the Commonwealth. And so these dams aren't doing anything. Are they holding back runoff, erosion, do they help with that? So there's different classification of dams and to note there are some dams on the Charles River that do flood control measures and in the watershed, and there's also dams that help store water for water supply. But the ones that us at the Charles River Watershed are focusing on removing are ones that are not having any current use and they're actually really degrading the water quality and impacting a lot of wildlife. Okay. So fish migrations and things like that, bird habitat, nesting, things like that. So why and how does the Charles River Watershed Association advocate for dam removal? What's the process? Do you get some opposition to that or is like do people kind of wonder why you're doing it? Yeah. So how we look at it is a lot of the times we have dams that they're aging and they're going to disrepair and communities are looking at either repairing them or looking at opportunities to remove them. So for example, there was a situation in the town of Nadek where a lot of the viewers may be familiar with the South Nadek Dam. It's really an iconic place and Nadek, they had a situation where that dam was built in the 30s and it really doesn't have any current use other than sort of the recreational views of looking at the impoundment in the spillway. However, the dam structure, there's a bunch of trees that are on top of the earth in portion of the dam which are actually a safety hazard if they fall over and topple and the water goes through. So there's a community conversation going around, you know, whether to remove the trees and restore the dam or take out the spillway and let the water go through. So what we look at advocacy, we look at instances when there's opportunities to look at dam repair and we say, hey, is there a conversation, can we have a conversation? Is there an opportunity to remove this dam? And in that case, a concerned resident actually let us know about this. So as the viewers, you can look at it in your community, if there's a specific dam that's going into repair, ask the question, is this dam doing anything and let your local watershed organization know about it? Was that the one where, I saw it on the news, there was like a big green storm, like huge, like one of these huge green storms we have now, you know, with climate change. You know, it looked like it was about to break or something. I don't know if that was the one, but there was one recently that happened. Yeah, I don't think that was that one. Maybe the Wall Tham, Moody Street Dam, back in 2010, had an instance that there was concerned of dam failure and back in 2008, there was a big concern about a dam in Taunton, which they eventually removed that had a similar problem. Right. Now, I know as a climate resilience specialist, you actually know a lot about the species, the fish and bird species that inhabit the watershed. Can you explain why, like, how these dams affect the migratory fish? And I guess eels are not a fish, right? Or are they fish? They are fish. They are fish. But they're a special kind of fish. How the dams affect that and what removing might, how that might enhance the migration and breeding? Yeah. So when I think of dams, a great analogy I've heard and I like to say is that, you know, think of the river like a circulatory system in your body. So it's moving water, it's moving blood, it's moving organisms through the system and these dams are acting like plaque in your ottery. It's like a heart attack on a river and rivers like the Charles River don't have an emergency room where you can take them so we need to be actually looking at removing these structures that are really not having any use to help free the flow of the river because when you're blocking that, it's backing up water and that's doing number one, heating the water up, which is lowering the dissolved oxygen, which is so important for your fish and aquatic species, as well as, you know, impacting that water quality. So there's that aspect and additionally, you know, they're blocking the passage of the migratory fish. So in the Charles River, we have a few species of migratory fish. We have river herring, which migrate from the ocean into the rivers to spawn. Additionally, we have shad, which do that as well. Is that the alewife? Is that also called shad? They're different. So alewife are like the tea station in Cambridge. That is a type of river herring. So this alewife and blueback herring. Both of them are in the Charles River. They're also in the Mystic and a lot of the other water rivers in the Commonwealth. So they get blocked coming upstream when there's a dam. And people may ask, you know, what about fish ladders? Yeah, I remember the ones on the Mystic. You know, they used to have the herring, but now it's kind of going through. Yeah, so there is a fish ladder on one of the dams, which I think we'll talk a little bit more about, which is Watertown Dam, which is the first dam upstream of the harbor after the locks. And that fish ladder does not pass the shad. It does pass some of the herring, but it doesn't pass any shad, the female shad especially. And it's also rainbow smelt, which is another fish. And they can't really do fish ladders either. So those are species that have sort of been removed from the food chain upstream by these dams and by the stopping. And they want to go up there to spawn. And they know, which is kind of amazing, they know which river to go up and where they want to spawn. And they have this sort of internal guiding navigation system to find it. You know, it's the coolest thing, it's just the coolest. So if the dams were removed, would they just know to go on up the river? Yes, yeah, they would know. You don't have to take one and sort of babysit it up the river. No. Plunk it in the water. Yeah, right. Interesting. Wow. The other thing about fish ladders is even the ones that say like the ones that pass the herring, they congregate the fish in one location, which makes them susceptible to predation. So a lot of the birds or poachers can go in there and they just find them all at once, and that's not the best thing. And it doesn't do the water quality benefits of reducing the temperature as you want more dissolved oxygen, as well as the impacts for all the other things with respect to water quality. So a lot of habitat for spawning has been lost. And is that, do you have any other observations on that? There was one, the NADIC dam that you were talking about. Removing the dam would reconnect a total of like 25 miles of river? Yes. Yeah, so the spawning habitat. Yeah, and NADIC's a particular interest, because right now the fish can't get all the way up to that location. But historically we've found records of back in the 1700s where there was a law in the state legislature that said that allowed the town of NADIC to regulate shad and alewife fishing. So we know that the fish have gotten historically all the way past NADIC. It's like a detective story. Yeah, it's really cool. We know that they were there. And I think some of the communities don't have that connection that some of the downstream communities have with the fish. But just given that history really helps push the envelope on the conversation. And it gives you a place to start when you're talking about the historical justification for removing them. And how about any other observations on the water quality? And the uses of the river. I'm a rower, so is this going to change the river that I row on? Will I have less water to use, or does it have any effect on that? That's a good question. And with respect to paddling, a lot of these dams, like Watertown Dam, are low-head dams where you can't see the dam from upstream sometimes. So they're kind of dangerous if you're in a paddle situation and you don't know that it's there. And you could go over it and sort of tumble into this drowning machine. We stop at Watertown Square going upstream, so we're not really allowed to go any further. Yeah, so they're kind of dangerous in that aspect. But with that situation, they're running river dams, so all the water that comes in is going out of it with respect to the river. So nothing is really held back in a big reservoir? No, not for those dams. The flood control dams, they do hold back. So like Moody Street would. And how would removing them improve the plant life in the botanical environment? Yes, that's a good question. So removing the dam, behind a lot of these impoundments, there's invasive plants. So you've got the water chestnuts, for example. And they are really noxious and blocking the light. Recreational use too. Also the oxygenation, right? Yep, yep. And by removing the dams, you actually can get the flow in. And that actually helps reduce the infestation of the water chestnuts and other invasive species. So that's one thing. Another thing is all of the impoundment area, the mill pond, so to say, behind the dam, that as the water level would recede a little bit, and some of the native seed bank would come back, and native plants would be back and have a more of an area between the river and say the parkland, DCR owns, for a buffer for impacts from water quality. Is there any way we can take the poison ivy out from that? Is that a native plant? I believe so, it is. It shouldn't be. I'm definitely allergic to it. I fell off the dock, the rowing club the other day, and I just got a bad case of it. But once in a while, the goats come down and eat the poison ivy down. You mentioned your specialty, climate resilience. The dams are susceptible to failure with climate change. How does that kind of work briefly? Can you explain how that, like the storm we just had. It might be normal, it might not, but if we have a lot of them, how does that help? Yes. So in Massachusetts and New England and the Northeast, we're projected to have stronger storms with climate change, but specifically more rainfall. So we're going to have impacts of more inland flooding. So we're really concerned about that, impacting our defunct dams that are really going into disrepair. So like we were talking about earlier, we have concerns of dam breach where the water could go topple over a dam and potentially erode around it and have a huge dam failure. Additionally, the high winds like we had the past few days could topple trees, and if the water went through that area, it could help erode the earth in parts of some dams like Watertown Dam or it's a major concern for South Natick. So we're concerned about impacts of stronger storms on these really aging structures. Yes, it's kind of like a slow-moving, not disaster, but potential disaster. Because you take one rainstorm, but you add five rainstorms of a similar magnitude and you've got a problem happening. We have a few more minutes left. I have a few more questions. We're wondering how many people are in this watershed? What's the population that inhabits this watershed? Do you have that information? I don't have it on the top of my head, but it's a huge population because you've got the city of Boston, you've got Cambridge, as well as it goes all the way up to Hopkinson. A lot of people don't know. It's like the Boston Marathon, the transfer goes from Hopkinson to Boston, but at Meander's a lot of the way. Yeah, your director, Emily Norton, mentioned that one time. She said, do you know where it starts? Yes. That's pretty amazing. People don't know. They just drive the roads and they don't necessarily know where the watershed starts and stops. So you have maybe a million and a half, two million people, maybe that are commuters or inhabitants of this watershed. So there's some potential advocates there. Yes, yep. And can you kind of detail in the last 10 minutes or so what people can do, where they can volunteer or advocate for the health of the watershed? Yes, yes. So we're launching a river advocate program this fall. So folks can check out our website crwa.org to get involved. And we'll be having trainings for folks in the watershed to learn about how to be an effective advocate for policies surrounding climate resilience. Additionally, like I said previously, it'd be important to, if people see dams in their community or have concerns about them, or your community is going through a process of looking at your structures to make sure that your watershed organization like CRWA is involved and can help guide and give advice on how to proceed. Right. And I know that some of the boat houses like mine are community rowing. Many of the rowers are advocates and they are actively involved. They go to the city council meetings. They go to the, you know, they write articles. And there's a lot of vested interest really in maintaining the health of the river there, yeah. And how's it, I mean, as far as the government, dealing with the government, how does that work? And is that a smooth process or is there a pretty good awareness of what needs to be done with the watershed? With respect to dams? Dams or, yeah, you know, like when you go to advocate to remove a dam, you know, there's people that might not want to do that. Yeah. I mean, does the state government, are they kind of aware and involved? Yeah, that's a good question. So I would say that specifically for dam removal, Massachusetts is really ahead of the curve and really advocating for dam removal. There's an organization or an agency called the Division of Ecological Restoration. They're a big partner for CRWA and other watershed organizations to help, you know, do the technical assistance and finances to remove the dams. With respect to other state agencies, we're having some pushback specifically with DCR, the Department of Conservation Recreation, on removing water town dams specifically. So we're, you know, doing some scheming and thinking of ways to help put more pressure on. Stratatizing. Yeah, scheming, strategizing. Stratatizing, whatever. Yeah. And, you know, we want to help advocate for that, because that's really the first dam that's got to come out to help get the fish further up to eventually self-native. They can get pretty far. There's ladders at Watertown Dam, obviously. Movie Street Dam has a ladder. It's not the best I hear, so you'd eventually want to get that fixed. And then there's a couple more dams, and they can get all the way up pretty much to Route 9, but the dam's there sort of in the Newton area, Upper Newton Falls, the Silk Mill Dam, and the Circular Dam don't have ladders. So no fish can get past there, which is unfortunate. But, you know, we're going to advocate sort of starting from the bottom and working this way up. That makes sense, yeah. Well, you know, a lot of people at my club are really, you know, working for that. And so we've talked about this a little bit, but the, you know, people kind of get nostalgic for the historical, you know, the aesthetic, you know, the dams, you know, the waterfall, you know, the spillway, they kind of like that. Is that, will that change the river? Will it make it more, I mean, I guess, river's not boring to me, but some people like to go to a dam and see water flowing down. No, and that's really true. I mean, I think the number one thing that comes into my head is South Natic Dam. It's a really iconic place. People have their wedding photos there. It's really sentimental value for people. And, you know, I feel for people where they have this sort of attachment to the structure. So, you know, they're going through a whole community process surrounding that. But one of the things that I like to say with respect to that dam is that in all dams is that a lot of the time they're built on natural changes in elevation. So there's likely going to be some riffles there, some rocks. And also, when they remove the dams, they can put in some boulders to really have a structure in places where the water flows. You still have that sound of the rushing water, see riffles and see moving water. So that's something that can be taken into consideration when these projects are done. Got it, yeah. Well, that's something to consider. You know, I know that every time there's a change, you know, people flip out a little bit, or some people do, you know, they kind of are afraid to remove things. But do you feel like this process is achievable? And like, what's the time frame for sort of like every few years one? Or do you have a sense of how successful it's going to be in the next 10, 15, 20 years? I would say that it's a slow process. You know, we have, like I said, about a little bit more than a dozen dams on the main stem of the river. So the work is going to continue. There's a lot of, like, fact finding that has to go into removing a dam. You've got to look at the sediments. You've got to look at, you know, historic structures and that sort of thing. So in permitting, so it's going to take a few years, probably five or 10. But it's really starting at the advocacy level and getting that decision to say, okay, we're going to take out this dam. That's really the hard and the first step. And once you get that, it'll take some time, but you can work with it and the state's really helping out. Are there sometimes, does there have to be a referendum or some kind of vote in a town to do that? Yeah, so it depends on the structure. So some of the dams are privately owned and those dams, the dam owner has the ultimate decision. In the case of South Natick, that's the town. So they have set up a committee that's going to vote and make a recommendation to the select board who have the ultimate decision. And they're taking input right now. So people are listening in Natick. They can contact the committee. For a lot of the dams, especially like Watertown, it's owned by the state DCR, Department of Conservation and Recreation. And that's sort of more opaque where they're a public agency, but they have to serve the public, but we have to still advocate to them to remove the structure. So it's interesting. I just had a couple more questions. What about the changes, if you remove the dam, how does that change the flow? And does it affect the sediments and what might be in those sediments, I imagine, over decades and centuries? Maybe there's been some stuff that's just sitting there. Will that affect the water quality? Yeah, that's a great question. And as a part of a process of removing a dam, the applicant and the dam owner will do studies to test the sediment behind the dam. So they'll see if there's any contamination from oil or any industrial pollution like PCBs. And that's something that they have to look into. And specifically, they'll say they find oil or other contamination behind the dam. They'll have to develop a sediment management plan to help make sure that that sediment doesn't get released downstream and impact the water quality in the river. And sometimes they have to remove sediment and properly dispose of it if it's of a concern. But the way I see it is it's better to remove that sediment in a proper manner than have a situation where there's a dam failure and that just gets blown out. Yeah, it just gets flushed out. Because we have to stop rowing sometimes because a sewage overflow has come in and we have red flags and stuff like that. So that could be another factor. One other thing I'd like to mention about sediments is there is a benefit to having proper sediments and proper river bottom for fish species specifically. So the dams are really blocking the sediment. So when there's clean sediment, you want that to naturally flow downstream to help replenish our beaches and our coastline. So they're really blocking the sediments too, not only the fish but that stuff. So it's dropping out before it goes to where it should be going. Yes, so by removing the dam you'll allow that natural sediment to replenish downstream and eventually get to the ocean. Is there any, like I know, I have to confess that I've gotten out of my boat and my phone has fallen into the river. So I feel really bad about that but I know I'm not the only one. Yes, yep. Is there a lot of stuff down there like around the, that's fallen off of boats and docks and things like that? That's detrimental or is that just sitting in the sediment and not doing anything? Yeah, I would say... Will they dredge it? You know, would they dredge it? Yeah, I would say that would probably be site specific. Yeah, okay. And that's part of the sediment management plan whether they would dredge some parts or what have you. There's definitely, you know, CRWA understands that there is contaminated sediments in parts of the river that we're looking at. When we talk about I-90 project, we're really concerned about that because they want to put the road in the river and they want to put a bike path and the pedestrian path in the river and that we're really concerned about them disturbing those PCBs in that area right downtown and by BU. Yeah, that's crazy. I don't really understand that thing completely but I'd like to do another episode on that. And just talk about that whole project because it affects a lot of people, commuters, you know, residents, fish, wildlife, river, everything. Rowers, boaters, yeah. I mean, yeah, I need to understand it better. Yes. And the other thing we were going to ask you is about the cost and who bears that cost and how does that play out in the dam removal? Yes, and that's a great question. And, you know, these old structures, these mill dams, you know, over 100 years old, a lot of them, or, you know, that's a big, you know, feat to help repair 3,000 of those that aren't doing anything in the state. Right, yeah. So if they need repair, they need repair or you can take them out and that's a cost. So the cost of repairing it is a lot of times more expensive than removing it. And that's a cost that you have to keep doing every 10 years, every 20 years on a structure that's not providing flood control, not providing any drinking water storage. So it's really a bad investment to sink money in to repair something that's not going to have any benefit for the public or for the private dam owner. So it's a lot of funds to actually from the state to remove the dam. So it's really a win-win for the dam owner and for the general public to not have to pay to fix these aging structures that aren't doing anything. That's a very important thing. You use that money to enhance the environment or, you know, kids' educational programs or something. Yes. But yeah, okay, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in today and thank the many others on our team that helped plan this show. Our goal with this program is to help amplify this information and all of the amazing work being done for these watersheds. You can learn how you can offer direct support to the Charles River Watershed Association by visiting crwa.org and watch the other episodes in this series at ACMI.tv or on the ACMI public channel. And we're always looking for volunteers here on a watershed moment. To get involved with this show, just email info at ACMI.tv. I'm Charlotte Pierce and this has been a watershed moment.