 We can get started with all the December 6th regular select board meeting to order. We're waiting. Brad Town should be here shortly. John Clinton won't be available, but we do have Flo Smith and Dave Sawyer with us virtually. For additions and changes to the agenda, we have Washington County Union Supervisory district ballot discussion and decision on letter. Jonathan Goddard should be here. And number two, highway department truck RFP discussion. So do we have Jonathan Goddard on here? What do you know about the letter events? What I know is it's been sent out to all five board members counties for the union school district. This regards to all five towns have to agree to mail ballots. And the school is requesting that in this letter. Hello. Hello. Hi. I'm not sure if I was on the call with the microphone open. My name is Kathleen and it's okay to make a quick public comment. This is from Kathleen, by the way. She sent the center for the board members. Anybody's interested? I'm sure the gentleman in the back was in order. So just I wanted to mention the item that the handout that I sent, if I were there in person, I would have been happier to see all of your faces, whether even if it was on, you know, a video. But I live in Berlin and I'm intimidated by politics in general. But now that we find ourselves here, I just wanted to give some of what I've gathered for the last year of information in regards to these products that we've been using. We've been using the masks and the injections and the testing. All three items are emergency use authorized items. And there's two sections there that show you the governing requirements from the FDA, the federal law for these products. And without going into it too much, if you just read the highlighted items, you'll see for healthcare providers and those who've taken any of these products to use for medical reasons in the last 20 months, there's always the right to refuse. And to go into it further is another day's task. I just wanted you to see that for yourself. And also, as you consider the most effective way to keep each other safe, vaccinated and unvaccinated people, to look at all these therapeutics that are actually available, and very affordable. So that was just the other section there. Okay. So it's the information to be given to anyone to be able to. And I can give you reference points. I wanted to make it simpler, not a lot of citations. It was hard for me to actually get the graphics together, believe it or not. But I just wanted to put it on the record that these are guidelines that are supposed to be followed and that you can empower yourself. Now that we're at this very local level of decision making, we can empower ourselves with the guidelines themselves. And I could go further. I just know I have to keep it simple. We have very little time to share some of this stuff right now. Can I have a suggestion? Is she for against masks? I can't tell for what she's just said. I am saying that masks are not effective medically, that they do not do what they've been purported to do as we've addressed this very complicated media saturated information that we've received. And that masks are not, your nasal passages themselves will produce hydrogen peroxide that will do its job when you breathe air in your nostrils. I can give you the citations and the medical information to show you that. That is more effective than a mask on your face. This is the way we should be handling a problem such as COVID. We should be looking at the therapeutics that have always been there and not thinking that a mask will protect you just as it wouldn't protect someone in a bio weapons lab. It might keep you your spit from going into the open cavity in a surgical procedure and that's important, but it won't stop a bio weapon from being passed amongst one another. So it just doesn't. Thank you. I just wish I, you know, this 20 months has made us realize there are a lot of decision makers at your level that I never got to meet, but I just felt like I needed to make a quick statement at least. And who am I talking to right now? Justin Lawrence and everybody else in the room. Yeah, just to make sure that I could at least, you know, say hi to you later and know who I said hi to for a moment. But and then everybody else is like nine or 10 people, I guess. But yeah, I think that covers it, you know, what's on that paper and anybody who wants to reach out to me later, please do. I look forward to being able to share more later. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comment? All right, guess we'll get back to that ballot discussion. The letters in the package there, an outline of what the board has sent out to all the five town participants about flight boards, asking for a scholarship for each of the boards to approve, which they need to have in order to be able to mail out the school ballots this year. Didn't we mail out our ballots in that last year? Does anybody remember? I think we did. When I, when I can say just for a little bit of background information, I know Rosemary has talked to Middlesex town clerk and they are not in favor and I don't know why. I didn't ask why they were not in favor. And Rosemary is not a big fan of it either. She's not in favor of the ballots as well. So we did it last year. We did it last minute. I remember last year as well. I'm here for it last year. Why wouldn't, why wouldn't they, Ms. Curious, like why are they going to do this now and they need our permission to mail? Apparently. The only thing with that is, is that anybody who wants to get a mail-in ballot, all that you guys do is call the town clerk. Right. I don't see, I don't see putting out the expense of mailing out to everybody. The statute changed this year. Last year, they did not have to have all pass degree. And last year, we weren't doing any in-person meetings. And so I think it's just kind of a scurry make it happen. I'm not a proponent of mailing to all. Because as Brad just said, not only can people call and request a ballot, they can email, they can stop by and they do. And we, this isn't the reason I'm not a proponent of it, but it's worth noting it's not like you're suddenly going to see everybody voting just because they were sent to ballot. And so personally, my feeling is that if you're going to take the time to vote, you ought to have a little skin in the game. And that if you really want to vote and you really have some knowledge on any of the topics being voted on, that you should be able to make a phone call or send an email or drop by in order to do so. It takes a long time to step all those ballots. By the way, not just the cost of the post, it's a long personnel time to do it. So the towns have to do it, not to supervise anything else on that. I guess since we don't get emotional, we'll just move on. The flow won't make a motion. All right. Real quick on that one, it was about a $700, $700, $800 difference in the proposals that we had from Charlie Boyce and Allegiance, which was formerly Clarks. My recommendation, I think Tim's recommendation is for it to be all with the lower bid, which is Clarks. Because in addition to that, Clarks was able to give us a firm commitment on when they can deliver the product where Charlie Boyce does not have a guarantee of when they're going to have their product yet, their truck. That was a big difference as well. They couldn't give a delivery date where Clarks has one reserved right now. They're down to two left, like what they have reserved for us with a date. Allegiance, they bought out Clark and J&B, so they're almost 40 years old now. So chances are they're in regard to you better. Maybe next year. I mean, not for trucks, but for, yeah. They get them, yeah, so they get a bigger pool to pick out of, yeah, pirates and stuff now. So like, this was saying, yeah, we went, it was two months ago that we came and talked about this pirate and everything else, and we went and did it, reached out to Cheldon trucks, Clarks Alliance and Charlie Boyce. Cheldon's are pretty much above the 2024. Clarks themselves took it upon themselves. So international only is going to build so many trucks for 2022. And so is it when they all are in, Freightliner's doing the same thing. When I talked to them, when we started this, they had Freightliner had minimum openings left. And Clarks had none, but they put nine trucks in their own name. You know, they kind of know who's coming up for placements. They had one that we could get our name on. So we went through the process and this is the result. So by signing, signing that commitment letter, it guarantees us a chassis. And then what it does is it's written in there that if for some reason it doesn't pass through now meeting, we're not held to buy the truck. And this truck was scheduled to, wasn't it? The 223.128 was, was that the number we had before? 223.128 is the quote from Allegiance, Clarks. How much is it to put the body in? That's delivered to you. More than seven. Right, we're out of work. Yeah, we're out of work. And that doesn't take into account any treatment down there as well. What's that? Less? Any treatment down there? Yes. And then what I'm going to do is get to the truck. Move to, do I have the chair signed for the truck? Second. Any discussion? Favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Thank you. The back creators will thank you. All right. Rick D'Angeles, Good Samaritan Haven. Yeah. I believe Mr. D'Angeles is online with us now. Good evening. Hi. Sorry, I'm not, I didn't make the effort to come to your meeting tonight. That's, I think one consequence of COVID is I've gotten lazier about going out in the evening. But I, I want to introduce also Carl Hilton Van Ostahl, who's, he's on the screen now somewhere. And Carl is one of the officers of our board of directors. And I, I wanted him to be here tonight and to also show you that it's not just Rick D'Angeles that represents Good Samaritan Haven. There's a whole team of us that are involved. So, yeah. So I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner regarding your proposal with, for an agreement with Good Sam for the Twin City property. I needed the time to really carefully review it and, and consult with our board of directors and our attorney. And so our, our response to that is that, you know, it is our intention, intention to pay our full property taxes as long as we possibly can. However, we're just not able to sign an agreement which would permanently eliminate our right for a full or a partial exemption. You know, this is something that we're eligible for under state law as a charity. As we see it, if we, if we did that, that would be a cross purposes with our, our charitable purposes. But I would like to offer you something in response. And that is that we'd like to suggest that we meet with you annually to report on the project and discuss any excessive impacts on town services and also discuss our ability to pay the taxes in the coming year. And this is one way that we can, you know, keep this at the forefront and be open and transparent with you about your legitimate interest in how we do with, with that property. Well, Rick, I think, I think what sparked this letter was the comments that were made through the process when you were meeting with the board. And so I actually asked for this letter to be drafted. The reason I asked for it was in the entire time that you were talking with the board, you told us that you had no, you would not be asking for any tax reduction of any kind and that you were going to, you were going to do that and, you know, basically say you're just going to be a great partner for the town. And I have no doubts that you're going to be a good partner with the town. I just, I could see that maybe there would be some reluctance to sign the letter. And I was curious, curious why that would be simply because through our entire conversation and discussions with the board, that's, that's what you told us you would be doing. So it's not necessarily, you don't want to, you're not willing to sign anything binding that says you guys will follow through with what you said publicly. Well, I, I, I, I believe that I said that we, we would pay property taxes. I never said that I would sign our way or write to, to apply for an exemption if we needed one. I, we never, I don't recall discussing that in any of the meetings. So like I say, I mean, we never had a discussion about actually signing this, but I figured based on what you were saying in the meeting that this wouldn't be an issue. So I wanted to, I thought do what was right by the town. So what are you proposing that every year we get together? Is there some way we can document that, make sure that happens? Because what I'm concerned about is as time goes on, this thing may fall to the background and it might not be in the forefront. Maybe there's a change in the board. Maybe you're not there anymore. I want to make sure that we both are good partners for each other and that we can make sure that we're doing the best by our community. I, I, Justin, I totally get it. And, and you have a legitimate interest. The town has an interest. And I'm willing to, well, I, I want to see what the proposal is, but I am offering to meet with you annually about this time of year. And you deserve to know how the project is doing. And, and it's, I think it's a worthwhile thing to talk about. Is there an impact on your services that's excessive? And finally, I'm willing to discuss that as well every year, our ability to pay the taxes. And it is our intention. We've already started to pay the taxes this year. And I'm quite confident that we can do it next year as well. But I'm just not comfortable with permanently signing away that right. Oh, that's bad. I mean, even if he signs it, the state statute, yeah, so I can, I can draft something. Okay. I'll fulfill that. Well, Vince, I mean, those were both parties to look at. Yeah. Vince, Vince will draft something up for most of us to look at. I just want to make sure it's something we have that we're, we're constantly, we're on top of once a year. And I would appreciate your participation in that. Yes, your thing that Carl, this is Carl. I could speak on behalf of the board. I'm currently the vice chair of the board and in line to be the chair as a board of the good spirit and haven in about a year's time. And we can certainly put something on our annual schedule as a board where we would have, whether it's an executive director or a member of the board come and speak with the, with the select board. Anything else you gentlemen would like to share? I don't have anything else. I don't need it. Get that right out of the way. Thank you, Paul. All right. Point Ridge, uh, road curb cut permit doing Michelle Baker. Go here. That's what I thought. There's a, there's a letter in your package from Mr. Provost as well, discussing some of the details around this. I've talked to Tom also a little bit about this. One of the things that, uh, that is a recommendation basically for an engineering design. We have done this entrance, um, that they want a lot. There's, there's just a lot going on there. Um, Jim's about to take a look at it as well. I wasn't about to design the new board. Oh, that's correct. We're not, but that was a neighbor. Yeah, let's, let's let Vince finish up and then we'll have to give me a moment. Okay. So that was, again, Jim's about to look at it as well. There's just, there's a lot going on there. Um, there's some feedback from, you know, other members of the neighborhood. Like I said, the letter in the package there, I think to just the recommendation is to, to to make it happen and move it forward. The best way for everyone to speak about what you saw down there from everything affecting that, that interest as well. That's a lot to be taken into consideration, um, for that entrance. Not that it's, it can't be done. It can be. But there's, there's water issues. There's other lines through there as well. Tim, you want to tell what you saw at the site? So yeah, I went down and visited there last week. Go ahead and stop, look. Um, we got at least three different services between there's a there's a sewer manhole directly in the middle. I believe to your entrance. Not sure why that would have been placed there if that was a right away. That's here, say there, but so there's a sewer manhole right there. There's a water shut off. There's a culvert that crosses Point Ridge. So there's storm water runoff there also. There's a ditch that runs directly down the side there and I'm sure at one point it was probably straight and since over the years it's kind of neandered its way through people's other properties. And so when we talked about it, they kind of thought that getting an engineered design to kind of I don't know, help. I think it would help you be able to get your access easier and faster and then have everybody held their count responsible. Like somebody can't tell you because they don't want water being turned on to their property. It's your right away. It's not actually right away. It's property. Yeah, it's a property. Yes. The manhole is right there culvert crosses and then this stream runs down through here and kind of turns now goes out into here. So I don't really know outside of our right away. I don't know if all those changes occurred. No, and like I said, outside of our right away, I'm not sure. I mean, we don't have any jurisdiction on what happens out there. It's just what will happen in our right away. Well, they're going to have to pave around or at least the manhole riser is going to be added into that driveway and if I don't know if you have any intentions on paving a driveway at some point or if it's just going to be a gravel driveway. I don't want to go out and play immediate and just put it on the market and sell it. Yeah. I'd like to have a trip, but as part of that. Yeah. Water line is actually the access for my law. Is that the curb sausage out there is for your law? That's what that is. So there that'll, you know, I mean, that would disappear. It would be to be sure or whatever. Well, they added on this patient of you building. And the sewer and all they're talking about, that's in the street. It's on the other side. It's in that grass area that they're mowing over the pavement curb. I shouldn't be there. I'd say three feet. I think there's another sewer manhole further downstream actually on our lot to probably use. It might be. I'm not sure where the lines run down there. It could be that the line runs out that way. Maybe it might turn to run behind the residents. I think we would hear a lot and not try to tie into an off goal. Yeah. It's just the concern with Tom sees the utilities was the town's accessibility of the manhole after the driveway was put in like dirt. There's always going to be a manhole on the driveway. So if anything like we've done before is maybe you might, might be a stipulation that you pave 10 feet off the road to pave in the manhole. So it wasn't, it doesn't erode with gravel or anything. The manhole is always just going to be flush with the pavement type deal. So if they have the access that they just cover off to get into it. And that stipulation is good enough to put the manhole? Yeah. I think if it had an apron on it, that would that would alleviate the the catch, the manhole. And if the water shut off his curb stop, that's going to get all tied into taking care of them. And like I said, I'm not sure exactly where the property lines run. The biggest concern for our end of it is that that itch where the water drains away from because the water runs down if you're looking up the road, the water comes down the rain inside of the road and then crosses just below his property where this is right here. And that's the ditch that runs down through. And what's the what's the slope here? Is it just pretty gradual to get back there? And then it's either me left off while it goes uphill with the salt with the siren that picture. Got you. But you know, I mean, that's way out of our way. Our biggest concern is we don't know about drainage ditch. So all about somehow. Well, I mean, right now the drainage ditch is on this property over there. Yeah, it turns, I think it's washed out a little bit. It turns when you get closer down there. You're in here? Yeah, you can kind of see where it comes back. It's hard because the gravel is all three feet high down here. It turns right here and kind of comes back into where. So what you have to do is put a culvert in there. But again, it's not. Out of our. Yeah, it's out of our. Well, we've got, I mean, the DRB has approved the curb cut, right? We just are proving working in the right way at point in time. So I would assume that anything that needed to be done should have been addressed in that process for issues like that. We didn't approve it. We recommend it. Wow. Right. Okay. Well, thank you. I'd recommend it. Well, I mean, we can still approve it with stipulations. So, like I said, as far as my concern is, it's good where it is. You know what I mean? There's plenty of site visibility, everything else. The only maybe stipulation is is you need to pay the apron to around that manhole. I'm not sure. Like I said, if you said that you think there's another one down into your lot a little bit farther, I believe there is. I think there's a sewer line that runs through that property. Yeah. My my guessing is, is probably the one that runs along the street picks up everything on the right hand side. And then there's probably a line on your house or over on your, your side of the houses where they run into because some of them houses are lower than the street versus somewhere higher than the street. So there's probably a line, probably a line that comes out of that goes down and behind those residents below your house. So, yeah. So, you know, just the fact of having an apron so that manhole can't be eroded or disturbed. Because the big thing is, is if it's just dirt, you know, you sell a lot. It's a dirt and it gets eroded and somebody goes in there with a plow and catches a manhole, pops a manhole off and builds a snowstorm. So if I'm not going to have to try to remedy that problem. I'm going to get first. Short apron now. I'm vibrate construction. Yeah. That works for me. Everything else is all down, isn't in our purvey anyway. No. Everything goes downhill there. Move to approve the permit for the curb cut for Mr. Baker with the stipulation that he puts in a apron around the manhole. Okay, so I got an apron. Around the manhole. I would say up to the town right away. What's that about 10 feet off the road? Do you remember what it was then? We just did some other stuff that I don't remember. Well, that was a collar sack. I don't because that was a collar sack. I don't know if that was the let's let's just say put a five foot apron around the manhole manhole. Can I get a second? Second it. Alright, any discussion? Mr. Chairman, I'd like to comment if I may. Yeah, go ahead. I'm David Provost. I'm the president of the Partridge Farms Area Association. And I can send you a letter that we had sent to the development review board earlier about the concerns with the property and development of that property. As we said before, when I sent that by email, we have no objection per se to the curb cut. That is the only access to Mr. Baker's property. That is his property. So we're we can't object to we can't make it impossible for him to gain access to his property. But we do have guidelines for development of the property and we're going to be very concerned about the impact on both the two neighbors there and on the drainage and sewer systems and the wetlands that we believe are in that property. And by the way, our guidelines do require a paved driveway anyhow. So that will be part of the things that we'll be looking at should anybody choose to develop that property. But otherwise our concerns are laid out in that letter and we will also be approaching the state DEC to have a wetlands assessment and that will be independent. Okay. Thank you. Any further discussion? Those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. Otter Creek in contact with Chinupon Fisher Road, Culver. What's the report's information? Otter Creek did provide its year folder timeline of events as well. Let's talk about it. Yeah, some of the some of the questions we had at our last meeting were it was just how how I know that there was a miscalculation based on the example. It was a design was done based on understood bearing values. Yeah, I think it's what you're referring to. And I think the board was seeking some clarification on how that happened and some additional information because we're at an expense that we didn't originally laid obvious. Sure. My name is Glen Roby. I'm with Contact. Okay, Glen, nice to meet you. I'm Justin. And I'm Craig Julep with Otter Creek Engineering in place of Robert Clarke who's on vacation. Did you want to run through timeline or some other explanation or did you want me to Sure. Well, I first I guess I wanted to just make sure to see if anybody if the board had the opportunity to review the timeline and any specific questions within the timeline. I just wanted to make sure before we get started. I am not the project manager for the project Robert Clarke is, but he's on vacation. So he asked me to come in, come in instead. And part of the reason for this synopsis was for the board, but for my own edification kind of how how we got to this point. My general understanding of how we got here was the town's overarching goal and need to have the road open with a final solution to the problem by the end of the calendar year. With that in mind, the recommendation was to split the project essentially the two separate contracts where the town would direct purchase the structure from contact while also simultaneously going out to bids to do the earthwork abortion hiring the boys to actually install the structure. Due to the schedule. The project proceeded during concept with conceptual phase information. And during the process, it was identified that the wrong bearing capacity was used to size the footing associated with this would have had it been caught initially as would have been included project costs that all bidders would have bid on. Unfortunately, due to the accelerated timelines associated with projects and the need and want to get the project done on time. These are some of the risks that are involved. Luckily, for all parties involved this cop before was constructed. So there was no rework that needed to be done. But there was a change size of the thing that was necessary to make sure that the design was compliant with the underlying soils. And so that the structure was constructed properly. That initial cost I believe was somewhere in the neighborhood of $46,000. We negotiated out with the boys to provide that service on an hourly contract rather than a lump sum amount. I believe that total came to just over $36,000 related to that project. So I fully understand the town's concern with incurring additional costs that they weren't anticipating. I would note that the cost was always there. It just wasn't known at the time of fitting. And I think the only loss that the town suffered was not having that part of a competitive bidder portion of a project rather than having a contractor who was already under contract and thus was the sole person who could provide an estimate for that service. I will note that it appears that that money is within the 5% contingency recommended by Outer Creek when the bids were opened. Industry standard for construction projects, especially with federally funded projects, which I know this one is not, 5% contingency is industry standard to carry related overall project costs. So that's my general understanding of how we got to here. And I guess I'm here tonight just to answer any four questions or any other questions related to the circumstances. Are there any other things that you can foresee coming up that will even with a 5% contingency? My general understanding is that there may be some additional construction related costs for resident work. I believe the project is not fully complete is my understanding at this point where the road is open, but there's still some putting water right now. Oh, are they okay? So waterline and another utility I believe to go over the structure. I was by the site today just to jump in and then we worked on that waterline. I believe they had three days of utility work based on a call I had with people this on Friday. So by Wednesday I believe I was going to be completed and but they are back filled up over the structure. And so my understanding is from a construction to always contract costs. No, there's no more anticipated additional costs associated with that, whether or not there are additional services from Otter Creek. I will leave that to Robert when he returns and he can discuss that with the board. I don't believe there are of any significance that I am aware of, but I won't speak to that because they don't have full amount of where we are with construction related to that or the budgets associated with our contracts with the town. And so contact, I'm just trying to simplify this. So you guys had Bill design your stand based on the footings that Otter Creek and then based. It's a collaborative effort. I'll explain that to me later. Sure. So at various iterations, different percent, complete plans and survey information is provided. They provide criteria such as waterway opening, grades, fill heights and all these go into selecting the structure that's most appropriate for the site. So we went through that process with them saying at a preliminary level until we get to the point where few folks have already committed to the structure itself. And the bids have been received for the earthwork. And I just see that was something that was unforeseen there. Post bid. And I'll also say that we went through some fairly herculean efforts as far as supporting both the town as well as the schedule that you saw important. And just to point out a couple of things. We purchased reinforcing mesh that needs to be used in fabrication of these art units. We didn't get it from the lowest cost mesh provider. We got it from the one that would get us there most quickly. We went on a dedicated load to get the mesh there. We set up not just one form, mobilized and set up one to cast things. We did two, which was once again to meet the town schedule. And there are some other things that come along the way that our site tech arrived, drove on a Sunday on his own time to be there first on Monday morning when we understood the set was to occur. And the set wasn't starting until Tuesday morning. So we certainly don't look for anything from that standpoint. I know I was there helping out for four days on site, which was a benefit to Du Bois construction, rigging precasts. So I guess I don't say any of these things for Pat on the back or acknowledgement just to convey the fact that contact understood that timeliness was important. And we did everything that we could to put that in the best light that we could. So just want to provide some context. Just going to say, hey, when we put it out and we're getting our pricing, everybody knew we was aware of our timeline. I mean, obviously, obviously, we're going to time and material and any construction materials and things like that that are on site here in a state form. Mike, I just really for my knowledge and the board's knowledge of town's knowledge, I just wanted to know if there was any one particular party that let us down or who was it? That I think is part of the risk. So all things being equal. If the town's goal and the primary goal was not to have the road open with a primary, with a finished solution that didn't require further work down the road, we would not normally recommend this process in doing this. There is a lot of risk when a town has to purchase something and give it to somebody else to install it. But Robert felt that I agreed with him at the time that the only way that your schedule was going to be met was to do that in this manner. In doing so, the town has multiple contracts with multiple parties instead of one or possibly two contracts, one with a contractor and one with their consultant. So anytime you add more, more people within the mix. I guess I would say the the error that was made was in trying to meet the schedule. It was not anything that was a omission of anything or anything that was done to cut corners or anything. It was just a process and how quickly it was moving and that the number of entities that were involved was part of the reason we brought in a geotechnical engineer, which is actually the entity that caught the error. They had to deal with Otter Creek and then Contex and then bring the boys into the conversation. So all of those conversations get ultimately a little bit more complicated. I guess I would say that everybody shares a little bit in how that got to that point. I guess what I would say in the long run is that the project and it's a hard way to think about it when you're talking about extra money. But if you look at when you open vids and with a project contingency, you do still have a project that is under the total project cost and has met your construction schedule in the middle of a pandemic. So I would say that it's a lot ideal but it is what it is to a certain degree. Right, so we said all parties have a new voice that's not much to do with the goal. I would say Du Bois had something to do with the fact that they stepped up to the plate and didn't wait for all the paperwork to be in place before they proceeded for it. They understood that the town had a goal and a schedule and they took some risk on their end not having all paperwork in place before they've received it. And then have an understanding is what I've heard. So moving forward as our advisors you would advise against rushing the process like that again. I've only recommended this one other time and it was in a similar situation where the schedule was the primary goal and everything else was dictated by that. That's the only time that I would recommend this because of these sources. There's a lot more unknowns. The more the more people you add to a conversation, the more unknowns come along with those conversations. I did reach the project goal as far as schedule goes which is what everybody was working towards through this process. So, you know, in context, certainly from my standpoint, you're certain hopeful that this will be a positive experience even though there's a failure that wasn't anticipated. I was waiting for you to say a lot of free folks. I appreciate you guys coming. Thank you. Are you saying that by Wednesday that'll be open? I can't speak to the contractor's schedule. Utility work was supposed to be done Wednesday. It's what I heard. Construction is construction. So what gets done is what I know it gets done. What would you expect next week? This is, we're just preaching as arch desires. Say that we have any knowledge of construction schedule. Right, I've talked to Potter Creek prior to this and I'm also talking to Mr. Lamberton as well as far as an opening ceremony for that basically. It looks like it's going to be probably sometime between the 15th and the 18th. Because before Christmas, that's the goal and it looks like they're going to make it right now. Again, I hope by the end of this week, we'll have it a little closer. So, thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you all. All right, next we have fire department raw survey, the discussion. I think it's important to note that flow has flow is now the fire department liaison. She has passion for it and it fit into her schedule better and I appreciate her doing that. I know she'll hopefully spend a lot of time with the fire department helping. You want to start this conversation flow or do you want me to pick on Joe or what? No, I'll go ahead and start and I appreciate that, Justin, for explaining because I wasn't sure that everyone realized that I was as the late. I wanted to make sure that folks knew that it wasn't a conflict of interest. Can everyone hear me? Okay. Okay, very good. So, at one point I will shut off my video only because I'm going to be looking at a lot of documentation but I'll turn it back on in a little while. I know I have about 25 minutes to speak. I'll probably speak about 10 and leave it open for questions as well as discussion from folks on the fire department. I have had a chance to meet with folks on the fire department and a week-lingit, et cetera, but also to go over the raw data and just what the fire department is doing to make adjustments, improvements, succession planning, and the future quite honestly. So I'm going to touch on quite a bit of that tonight. I would just ask that all questions be held until I'm finished only because that allows me to concentrate and then we can touch on all questions at the end. And I do welcome the fire department to pitch in there because who knows it better than they do. Raw data, which I assume all the board has had a chance to review. We received it quite some time ago and we did have some questions where we wanted more of an expansion on what folks had responded, how many people had responded. We knew at that time that there was less than 100. And I believe that I had commented in terms of I would have really liked to see a wider spectrum of residents who responded. But for right now, what we have is what we have. I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty of what folks said and we can all look at that. Suffice it to say that there's room for improvement. The fire department realizes that and they've really taken great strides to get in that direction. And I commend them wholeheartedly. So I'm going to shut off my view right now only because it's easier for me than looking at myself while I'm talking. So basically in terms of the raw data, there were about 79 folks that responded roughly. There's quite a few various sheets on that which makes it a little difficult to print it out and share it with everyone. But the information is there for anyone who wants to review it that hasn't had a chance to. They broke it down into various categories and included visualizations. Included in that are all the responses that folks made. There were about 70 residents that responded. Six of them were renters, 22 were landlords. There were eight business owners. About 11 people were workers and four residents. Now the best way I can explain the raw data is sort of what I touched on earlier that there was discussion around the call volume times, you know, response times, etc. And just room for improvement. The best way I can boil down what I'm seeing and what can be done is I think there's more room for the town becoming involved with the volunteer fire department and I believe that the fire department is open to that as well. So I think that's a bigger, broader discussion that we can have as we move forward. Just want to look at a couple things and then I'll expand a little bit more. The fire department in conjunction with the raw data, there was discussion about response times and people going out. The fire department right now is looking at a way that they can actually have two people go out when there's a tone. They're also looking at a weekend staffing. They have a per diem process right now. And as an aside to that, they really would like to have two responders in the station both on Saturday and Sunday. And those weekend hours would be used to perform maintenance tasks, admin duties, various training as well as responding to calls. They'd like to see the weekend staff paid per diem and paying weekend staff per diem and not using the stipend would increase the actual stipend point value. So the fire department personnel can better explain the stipend point value, but that's what they've been following for quite some time. They'd like to have four hour shifts approximately. And some of what I'm discussing right now is down the road, I realize. They are looking at a potential for a bunk in program. They have Norwich University students right now that are coming on board. And that's very exciting. As of last week, there were three, soon to be four. And can everybody still hear me okay? Okay, very good. So another topic is the lowering of the response time. They want to see quicker response to calls. And a lot of that would come with the weekend staffing in a bunk in program. That's a step at reducing the response times. And I'm in favor of that as well. I'm a huge proponent of that. They're looking at planning for the future and looking to increase the capital replacement fund to be better prepared for the purchase of fire apparatus. And before I finish, I have other things I'm going to discuss. But one thing I do want to mention is that when I met with Joe Staub last week, both Joe and I were presented with an actual quote for equipment, both for the corner station and the Riverton fire station. It's a significant amount that is needed for the equipment, but at the same time, the equipment, the radios, and all of the apparatus that goes along with it, as well as the installation of antennas, low loss cables, mass, and transports, etc. There's quite a bit that is necessary to really bring their equipment up and the radios are hugely, hugely important. And that quote for the upcoming budget would be between 31,000, just the TAD over 31,000 actually, to the range of 36,000, because it doesn't fully include all of the costs of the antenna mounts and the mass, etc., but it does include $7,500, which is everything surrounding the installation. So basically, as an overview to everything I'm going to describe tonight, I just want to emphasize that I'm really impressed with the fire department. I think Berlin as a town can be extremely impressed with what we have and how they work very diligently on a small budget. The budget does need to increase. There's no doubts about it. Last year as a select board, we kept the budget down and we did real well there, but I think we need to be very open-minded going forward in terms of making sure that we spread as far as we can spread and help the fire department. And I would say that even if I wasn't the liaison, you had said earlier that I'm passionate about it. I am. I think we need to invest in our town. There's been so many things that we've looked at to help the fire department, one of which is we've had many discussions about maybe bringing on paying of bills. Joe and I did discuss that last week, and that's not something that has to happen immediately by no means. They have a good process in place right now, but it's something to just be aware of in terms of a future discussion. Okay, now I'm just flipping through some other information, so bear with me. The last time the portable radios were in the budget, I believe it was through Burlington Communications, and that was in the calendar year 2005. Also, if I'm getting it right and Joe correct me, Engine 3 has an old radio, and I just need confirmation of which engine that is, whether that's a newer truck. But if I remember, based on our discussion, that correlates with the reason as well, why the radios are so necessary. It's just you've got to get everything up to speed there. Flo, is this a good time for me to chime in? Yes, go ahead and chime in, Joe. There's more information I'll share, but please do. That's great. I think just for clarification on the radios, when you're talking about back in 2005, that was the base radios. Base radios, okay, very good. And so the quote that you just shared is for the replacement of the base radios. And I did say when I was looking for quotes to include Riverton Station, which Riverton Station is not necessarily part of the EOC, shooting the stars on this. Okay, but the base radio at Fort Corner Station is, and it is quite old and getting upgraded. And then where else? So the portable radio or the radio in Engine 3, Engine 3 is the newest frontline engine, and it does have a used radio in it. That is currently in this year's budget, but I can also tell you that we have placed it in order almost six months ago, and our radios will not be in-house until probably March at best. So we will be placing another order fairly quick. Thank you, Joe. That was a good overview, and I appreciate it, because like I said, you had tremendous detail there. I'm looking at some of the other notes that we wanted to address, and I do also thank you for all your time last week. And before I go forward, I also want to say that over the last few months, I've been very cognizant of the changes and additions and upgrades you made to the website. I know you've brought on additional people on the fire department, and I commend that. I'm real excited about the Norwich Cadets being there to assist, and I'm sure the folks in the town will be as well. So I know it's on the cusp in terms of you looking at a bunking program, but the best way I can describe that is the Berlin Volunteer Fire Department has had the Norwich University students, as well as some local members needing a place to stay during transition periods. And Joe can speak later to this, but it's a great idea to integrate the needs of the town and at the same time be responsive to what we can do to also assist those that are assisting us. And with the website, I want to come in Ryan Barr, because I think he did a fantastic job with the website, and it's a huge step in my mind, you know, toward going forward. And although I can't speak to every single person tonight, I am very impressed with the fire department, and we are very fortunate to have you all on board. Saying that, I want to acknowledge that I think you folks are very short staffed, and that's why it's imperative to me that we need to take a closer look at everything to include how the town can assist you more. And we can discuss this at a future board meeting for sure, because I know it's a lot of information to bring forward. You know, the raw data itself, I think that that's the crux of all these other topics. You know, you basically put out the survey, and you ask for responses, and then it's important to listen to what the responses were in context to how can we do better as a whole. And the world is changing. We've got COVID-19. We're going to be expanding as a town. We've got the town center. We're going to have more and higher expectations. And that's as much as I'm going to say right now. I want to allow time for everyone to say or ask questions. And then we can go further and answer additional or talk about anything else. And we can also talk about things at a future staff meeting as well. Board meeting, I should say. Thank you. Keith, do you have anything you'd like to add to that? Flo did a good job giving a nice overview. Joe and Flo spent a lot of time in the last couple of weeks getting Flo up to speed with a lot of what we're planning on for the future. A couple of things I'd like to add to is when she was talking about the base radios and that the cost there is a portion of that is our intention is to increase the capability of the town's emergency management board when they have to operate EOCs in the town because they operate out of our station. So it's kind of dual purpose there. The per DM, right now we pay a stipend annually. We don't have any per DM shifts running yet. This is something Joe and I are looking at and we're working on including in the next budget cycle. And we plan on, like Flo said, starting it on weekends, but that's a first step. Our ultimate goal is to expand it to during the week so we can have better daytime coverage when we need it the most. And yeah, right now we're answering our calls. We don't have calls unanswered. Yes, they have some longer times. And as we found out when we did the studies, the reason is traveling from our homes to the station. After that, once we get into the station, the times are pretty much in line with a normal department's response and getting to a call. It's just the travel times because we're so spread out. Yeah. And I think I'll turn it over to Joe if he wants to add anything more. Thank you, Keith. Well, do you have anything, Joe, or are you good? No, not necessarily. The Bunken program is a fairly new topic that we've been talking about. And we're moving forward to accommodate that as soon as we can. Like I said, we do have some Norwich cadets that, for various reasons, aren't able to travel home, but they are required to leave campus at times. So this would be a great place for them to come stay, not necessarily they're not getting paid to do so. In my mind, they're getting accommodations, but they would be required to do certain tasks and also respond, which they're wired for that. So I do see this getting expanded during the day. And Keith did say, or during the week, he did say that no calls are going unanswered and we kind of really focus on the Monday through Friday. I will tell you, if you're looking at that data, your number of responders are less, but your response time are less as well. So you're getting to the call quicker. And it's not necessarily because somebody is actually stationed, but they're up and about and more readily available. And Keith touched on the EOC as well as discussion last week about when our emergency director comes on board, after folks have expressed interest, where that individual would work out of primarily. And I can see that right through the fire department. I think it would be very beneficial for them as well. And I'm just looking at some other notes here, and then I'll wrap it up and leave it open-ended for any questions that folks have. And also for the fire department folks to chime in as well. I think the biggest thing that I can just broach tonight so that it can be on the table for future discussion is basically having us as a select board give consideration about merging the fire department with the town of Berlin. The fire department is open and receptive to that in many ways. I don't have all of the data in terms of who's for it or may need more information, but I think it's a good time to be very open about that going forward. And just to have it out there so that we can have the full discussion in terms of whether we bring this before the town residents this March. And I think quite honestly, this is something we've been discussing for some time, and then we're looking at the raw data, et cetera. And I just appreciate everyone taking the time tonight to be open-minded and look at all of this together. Thank you. Thanks, Flo, for diving in deep. I know sometimes we run short on time, and I know you do a thorough, thorough job with that. So I appreciate it. I think we're starting to get a better understanding of the fire department. So then, as a feedback, I didn't know what your needs are as we're growing. That's the biggest piece as we, whether it's in our zoning process or anything all the way around, you guys are crucial at all. Very much so. And they're very dedicated and responsive, and we're very fortunate. I guess there's one last thing I'd like to share. If I'm not ready to share the budget, you'll have the budget presented at your next select board meeting. It has to go through the corporation to improve first. But if you are looking to, we're looking to increase the capital replacement fund. And this is mainly, we think of that as fire apparatus, but it's more than that. It's also, we put a new roof on the Riverton station just two years ago. It's any large expenditure. Right. And we're, we can't, what I would like to do is move forward with a weekend per diem chefs. And that's going to cost something. So we are looking at an increase to the budget for this. So we were based on all the conversation we had. We really looking at having a question at time meeting regarding the fire department in the town. Potentially. I know that needs to happen in about a month's time, right? In order to do so. Well, I don't think it's anything that, Stefan, I don't know if it would be any official decision or whatever. I don't know where we're at. Honestly, I mean, we had talked about, talked about it, but I don't think there's any way the town would be ready to make that exact decision or the fire department in a month's time frame. Well, I was going to say, just to have it on a warning, if it's a public question being asked on it. I think it would be more of a, more of a, almost like a time gathering data, right? Or where, what were you thinking? I don't know. If you want, if you're ready. I personally was thinking, I know it now, but I know it's a discussion that's been out there. And I think that the time is ripe, given the world we live in right now, the shortage of volunteers, the fact that the fire department is looking at all kinds of ways to be more responsive and productive, et cetera. And just quite honestly, stay afloat. Times are tough. And I think we really should push this forward to the extent that we can. I do like your idea, Justin, about having a community meeting. But if we can get this on the ballot. Well, I think that would be on the ballot. Unless I just understand what you're asking, it's a public question and therefore it would be on the floor. Yes, that's what I mean. All the funding questions go on the ballot. Correct. Yes. I do understand what you're saying, Corinne. Thank you. Okay. Well, I think we would have to, I defer to you, Flo, but the enthusiasm on that one and Joe with the fire department to make it happen, if that's what most parties want to have happen for this year. Well, you can just put it down as a non binding question. Does anyone have any questions that they haven't had a chance to address? Brad, did you hear what Brad said? I did not. Just put it down on the for the town meeting as a non binding question. Very well. Thank you, Brad. It's an option. And then the fire department, if they have a month or so, or they got to March to get what they envisioned for it, have their discussion at town meeting. That's wonderful. I think it's a wise move in my opinion. And I think it will bring everything toward a healthy fire department, which overall benefits the entire town and all residents. Okay. Anything else? Thank you, Flo. We were looking for some clarification, right? Any contract? Well, I'm going to ask to go home on a hand as far as we can see if I can get some additional details. Yep. If you remember, one of the people that I references that I called with regards to them said they were busy. Well, apparently they're busy because I called them a couple of times and they haven't got back, been able to get back to me with the information yet. Have a good time. They're busy. That's good for them. But my recommendation is to stay with the Challenger Cameron and land back. Again, the response that I've had with the two individuals that I've been working with since we're working with the paralegals. I'm working with a couple of their attorneys over there. Okay. And they've been very responsive and very good. And they've been referring to the previous attorney from their firm that has retired as well for the background information. So it helps it go a little bit better. So my recommendation is going to be to go to continue with them. No, we haven't dropped you the letter yet because we didn't know where we were going. So I can put something together for whatever you feel. Whatever the board feels is a reasonable contract. What was the old contract? I don't know. But I know that we've had these people since 1989, I believe. I can't believe we haven't passed along those records. I couldn't get my hands on the old contract. So I don't know what it was. I don't know if we had one. I don't ever receive it. Well, we don't have one anymore. Whatever it was, it has expired. But look at this, please, if you're making the recommendation, you know, we can entertain a motion or something to do like a one year, two year, three year, four year, five year. But you've got to have some sort of time in this contract. Or you can get a hold of Cusick or one of them there and just see if they have a record of it. I can't. I haven't asked that question to them yet. Yeah. And then it doesn't matter what an old contract was. Just for a timeline. But I would almost think it must, the last time annually, the last time the board did anything, I think it was, it was, I want to say it was five years ago or better. Oh, thank you. They're almost half convenient. If you had a hand, a one year contract, they increased their records. We put it out there. Well, the only thing there is if you have a five year contract, you lock the rates in. As long as they're good. You should have them. So, so we can entertain a motion that we would accept it as long as we can do that for a five year contract. I'm more than if that was the case. I think you're going to have on the agenda for, I think you're going to have to see when the RFP went out, you didn't take it. There was no mention of, it didn't specify a contract term from the RFP. So, if they're, if they expect it to be a five year contract, a three year contract or a one year contract will change. Usually they do some sort of a step arrangement. That's what we do under the same rate. I guess you're going to have to get it clarified. Yeah, clarify what the terms were. That was a valid point, Brad. If they were, if I could get a five year at these rates, if they were basing their this RFP on a five year contract, well, more time. But I mean, like, I mean, it looked like what we do with some of our contracts with two with extensions. Yeah. So, yeah, I'll go with them for a five year at these rates and the option to negotiate. If my hand gets back to you, I'll send the same one. Thank you, Ben. All right. Colonel Parton has asked to be on the agenda, but he's unable to attend. It was a potential mask mandate enforcement by a municipality discussion. So he's not scheduled for the next agenda. Rec committee requests for a 5k budget and to spend $600 for face rank goals. Typically, what do they typically have for a budget of $5,000? For what? Well, how much is that? No, they usually have like a thousand or $1,200. Normally, what the town's been paying for is just a swim license. We've got Tim Shea, the chairman of the board. Hey, Tim. Hello. So, thanks for doing that. Yeah. So we have our, yes, we have our budget requests. We're just getting started as a rec committee and looking to run more programs than what's been done. Obviously, we're starting to take over from the conservation committee. And so looking to have a $5,000 request and that's looking to do more youth and adult programs. So we would have some expenses to start these up, which would include uniforms, respiratory fees, field maintenance and any equipment needed. We're also looking to update the signage on the recreation facilities and any ice rink maintenance that we need to keep that facility up and running at a safe level. So the other thing we're looking to do is potentially do some subsidy for swim programs and ski programs for Berlin youth as well. So not sure if we'll use the full extent as we're just getting going here in the last several months, but looking to have some money to be able to promote those programs. And then separately tonight, looking to ask to release some funds to replace the basically non-existent hockey goals that need to be replaced at the rink for this upcoming season. Well, Rick, I'm just just maybe a silly question, but we don't have the rec facilities over technically at Maryland Elementary School anymore. So exactly what used to be the fields. It's all part of the supervisors. So I'm curious what rec facilities we have other than the hockey rink out here that would need referees or anything like that potentially. What were your thoughts on that? I'm just curious because I think that Maryland does lack some some youth sports and community involvement and things like that, but that's some of the other places to do. And I really think it's great that you guys are working towards that. I'm just curious what you're envisioning because I don't know what it is. Yeah. So we're envisioning someone emulating what the East Montpelier community has done. The elementary schools do have an athletic director, but we found that they're just trying to manage five different communities. So we're looking to run the programs through the town basically, which is what East Montpelier does so that we can offer more programs and not be limited with what the athletic director wants to offer for the communities. Have you talked to the school board about using their facilities? We have talked to, we haven't talked to the school board. We have talked to the principal over there and they're certainly open to letting us use their facilities for some of the programs that we're looking. Soccer, baseball, we want to also, when we can, when it's safe, do some basketball and volleyball programs. Well, that would have to be, obviously, $5,000 for next year's budget. Correct. And what do we have in the rec budget? The reserve, I have to go look at it and I don't think to do that. Yeah, I think we're around $2,000 in the reserve, as I recall. So the rec committee got divorced from the, what's the budget in the conservation committee? I don't know, they'll get along with me. Well, I was thinking, that's what I'm thinking. I'm like, what do you think? I remember going to some money sooner. Well, I mean, I don't, I wonder, when do you need this funding? If you were going to start this, I think it's great that we're going to do some sports, athletics. Yeah, we would likely be looking to start until spring of 2022, just knowing that what we're looking at with COVID and such for winter activities. I'm just thinking that's because that's still this budget and not our next budget too. So correct. So the rec board does have a reserve of 6,500 from FY 21, and I don't know what we spent in FY 20. The rec board has 6,500. Conservation is different. So we have $6,500. They still have that as well. And FY 21, I don't know if I spent anything in FY 22. Thank you, Diane. Yeah, I don't think at this point we haven't spent, we haven't spent too much. I know we've got some signage that we're developing and such, but as I said, we haven't really gotten off the ground with too many programs. So that'll help. That's some good starter money. I think we've got 6,500 in reserves right now. Yep. And so I think one of the things that the board would look at as well would be our budget for our rec committee and our conservation committee. Since that was previously a joint effort, maybe looking at that when we go into our budget season. But do you think 6,500 in reserve you would be able to accomplish what you're trying to do until our next budget? Yes, I think we could certainly, I don't think that would limit us too much knowing that we can carry that money over. So that should be, that should be good to carry us until the following fiscal year. What's the conservation commission? Let's see, conservation. 49,000. Yeah, into equity. That 49,000, that doesn't include the monies for the bike path, right? No, bike path is separate. Bike path's another 37,000. Okay. And that would now be the direct development, right? They're all separate. They're all separate. The bike path can only be spent for, yeah. Yeah, bike path has to be separate. Okay, right. That was dedicated, right? I want to hire you all here for the conservation commission, you work for the planning commission. Conservation commission gets the money from having trees long or something. They did. Oh, okay, yeah. That's good to say. There's a reason to that money. Well, there was quite a bit in there before. We didn't get that much. Well, they don't spend it, I mean, they don't spend much. Well, do they stay, I mean, because they do, when they buy things, they fundraise, or do they use? They use that money. Or in Basma. I mean, unless it's big, you know, for trying to conserve land or something, right? Yeah, well, that's what the reserve is for. Okay. So, I mean, I guess what they're looking for right now is a motion to approve the purchase of the ice, the rent, the goals for 600. 600. And that 5K will be brought up in the budget conversation. I mean, I didn't see him. No, I looked up there, I didn't see him. Hey, Joe, I can hear you. Make a motion to approve the 500, 600 dollars for the ice, ice ring goals. Second. Any discussion? Those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Aye. I know Dave's gone. Thank you very much. Yep. And thank you. We thank you. We good to, we good to see that activity. All right. Uh, next up, budget review. Sorry about that. We're running later than I thought. So, just kick this off real quick for the budget review. I've been just in control of it. So, you've got a pretty extensive package for you that breaks it down. Diane's summary is in there as well. And there's that. It's in the addendum. And there's three other addendums there that give you more detailed information. For the addendum one is the, as of November 23rd to 24th, the, what we spent today, this fiscal year as a comparison to use. And then there is the survey compensation as well as an addendum. So, you can look at what the LCT survey has for salaries, for other towns that participated in the survey as well, or the same jobs that we have. The work point itself is a bit of a detailed breakdown from Diane's numbers, basically, that we have. And that we put together for the budget that takes you through page by page, each one. So the first page is, as it says, wages and insurance and benefits compensations. And then it takes you through the next several pages, takes you through the revenue summary, details, and then expense through summary and details following that. So we decided to present, you know, a full, complete budget proposal first go around instead of my understanding of that, it's been kind of done in bits and pieces. So my recommendation is, you know, we maybe go through it at a high level this evening. And then, sorry, but homework for the board, this is kind of reverse. To look at it in detail, I'll put it on the next agenda again. For further discussion, for questions, for comments, as you see fit. That's my recommendation. I'll be quiet. I'll have a look and I'll answer the questions. You want to go through the whole thing tonight? I have a chance to pick the numbers. I'll look at it and give you a minute back here. So I can tell you, right, if you look at the first page of the wages, it shows you what they currently are for this year, 2022. And then what the proposed 2023 is, which represents a 2%. Yeah, 2% for non-union and 3% for union. So again, total wage difference last year in this year is 63,931. And part of that is in FY22, when we were doing the budget then, we did not have a new town administrator. We did not have a new police chief. So it's not. So if you're looking at that, you think it was more than 2%. Yes, from the budget, because we did not anticipate the changes. And obviously the rates were increased. If you want to see the details of the administrative wages, you go to page 10. There's a sheet in there that breaks it down. What the town clerk was and proposed, the treasurer, right through all the positions. Okay, cool. That'll give you those details. Your recommendation is that the board takes time to review this. There's a lot of information here and a lot of detail. I just, I think it would be best. No, but I think we'll get it. Let's move on to the next couple of board meetings, maybe to talk through it in detail and answer your questions because I'm sure that'll be separate. Okay. One thing I did want to bring up, or a couple of things I wanted to bring up is the VMware's rate. They're anticipating that we'll go up. Right now it's 6.25. They're anticipating go up to 6.75. Okay, that's the anticipation. The board, their boards have to vote on that every year. So I might not have the final answer, but that's kind of what I based my stuff on. And I did get, from the leaks of cities and towns, I did get the new rates for workers comp and our general insurance. And it went up by 16%. On our workers comp? Yeah. Wow. I wonder why that was. How far is it going down? We had lost. Yeah, that's right. We had to go through that workers comp case. I forgot the cases. Yeah. Significant. So anyways, I think what I will do is send the board that detail as well. But that's all worked into that now. Yeah. The one thing that I'd like to point out as well. I'm based 27 on the capital budget. I have done a good job this year paying off debt. As a result of that, we put, we talked a little bit about putting into the capital budget, right? And we dropped money for equipment, like the trucks and things, so that we don't have to borrow money. That's in the budget this year proposal. But with the debt reduction that she's going to finish out this fiscal year, the capital budget actually went down by about $34,000. But I was adding an additional $300,000 in there for the additional future purchases. Right. And you'll see it in the line. Savings. We're going to try to start the savings. That's what we're showing now. That's approved. No. We would have that. And then we'd be reserving that money and then building on that. So that buying in this vehicle is not going to be. You don't have to take out a loan. Right. It's time to buy every year. We have the funds to buy the equipment. Well, it's going to be greater, right? That's great. Thank you, Diana. It will be. I'm going to get that. Just wanted to point out that that's pretty significant, really. And the timing was right with that debt being paid off. So it doesn't, it's not a huge hit to the budget as the. And then when we're looking for an ATV or something like that, okay, does the board, does the board know that? Yeah, they were listening for the emergency vehicle for things like Irish Owl or even trail maintenance or whatever to be shared without everybody in the town. Yeah, I'm surprised we don't have one. Some things wanting to leave it at his house for somebody. I'm using my own now. I still really don't have a take home car. So there are any additional positions put in there? There is a position in there as well. One full time has been accounted for. And then if there was to be an additional person off of the utilities board, they're the ones that have to decide that. Okay, that would have to be part of their budget. I mean, we could force it on them and say, look, you need to do something. However, they're the ones that determine in their own budget. Probably I need to look at that. Yep. Yes. Any other questions for Diane or I on the budget at this point? No, I think we'll go through that. We'll go through that. And then maybe we'll have a discussion on the other options for the potential staffing positions as well. Can we include that in our next public discussion? Sure, we do a little bit of research and see what that looks like. Well, I've been keeping track of my time. I have this is the last week of that four-week cycle. Yep. And then Vince will have homework. Vince will have all that data for us. Excellent. It's just about done. Awesome. Okay. Yeah, I think that's, we're getting something there. And if anybody has questions, you can email me as well. I'm happy to try to answer that. Thank you. Okay. Approval of license permits, vouchers, and applications. Let me read that. Sure. Okay. Okay. Payroll of warrant 22-10 for payroll from November 7th, 2021 to November 20th, 2021, paid on November 24th, 2021. And the amount of $47,175.33. Payroll of warrant 22-11 for payroll from November 21st, 2021 to December 4th, 2021, paid on December 8th, 2021, and the amount of $58,914.21. Payable warrant 22-10 for checks 21595 to 21641 in the amount of $554,625.23. November 2021, reconcile. Thanks, Davis, for the general fund and sewer water division. Payable warrant 22-9, check health from the 1115 meeting to contact energy engineering. Check number 21575 for 203,9365. Can I get a second? Second. Any discussion? Those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Approval of minutes from November 15th, 2021. I make the motion to approve the minutes of the November 15th, 2021 meeting. Second. Any discussion? Those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries. Round table, I just want to give Carl a quick second. He's not going to talk like you. Carl, are you there? It's here. He's muted. I am here, yes. Hi, Justin. So we missed you on the agenda, but I wanted to give you a quick minute and round table to just say what you want to be on the agenda for, and then you'll be on it for the next meeting. Okay. Now I apologize for missing my cue on the agenda, but I guess what I wanted, the agenda item says mask mandate. That's actually not specifically what I was wanting to talk about. I'm more interested in something a little bigger than that from my perspective. So I wrote a potential ballot item, and I wanted to get the select board's thoughts and even guidance on how to get an item like I'm about to read to you on the ballot. I'll just read it to you, and then I'll explain what my justification is. Carl, hold on a minute. We have the utmost authority on it here saying that ballot items are financial items. The other one's any item like that. And I apologize if I didn't give you that information. An item like you're about to read would actually be a floor discussion. Okay. Okay. So I'll read it anyway, and then you can give me your guidance and ideas. Here's the text. Shall the town of Berlin in an effort to prevent and eliminate discrimination based on medical status and individual medical choices, prohibit and prevent mandatory medical procedures or use of any form of medical status document, digital passport, or other form of medical identifier as a condition of employment, entry into public or commercial spaces or participation in public events or groups by any business, company, corporation, governmental or educational entity within the town of Berlin, regardless of county, state or federal mandates, requirements, dictates or policy recommendations from this day forward. So that's the text of what I guess I would like to be either a floor discussion or a referendum or an item on the town meeting. So okay. Karim wants to make a comment. Carl, that's so long and complicated. Even I'm not clear what exactly you're asking. Okay. So if you had the text in front of you, it might be more clear. But what I'm basically saying to some outsize it is that we won't have a vaccine passport in the town of Berlin. And the town of Berlin as an entity will not support or allow it in the people of Berlin. And I'm looking at New York City right now who is actually going into private entities and they are pushing a vaccine mandate right now and a vaccine passport. And I gotta say straight out, this is not to protest or be against the vaccine specifically. What it is about is a medical identifier, a card or a biometric chip or tattoo or anything that can basically relegate individual liberty to a conditional privilege. And that's something I think is very dangerous to a free republic. And I know this is probably a mile high look at what's going on, but it's happening in other countries right now. It's happening in some of the larger cities that have government leadership that is more likely to impose its will on its citizens. We're going to give you some time on our next meeting as well. I'm going to give you a quick intro there. Thank you. So I would love to hear if they're good. Maybe simplify a little so we understand it better because I can see that maybe if you have something that we have to give out or whatever, because there is some confusion on the intent there. But we look forward to having you in our next meeting for sure. Okay, great. What is that? So I can pencil it in, Justin. 21st. 20th. Or 20th? Yeah. 20th. Okay, and I bet Corinne's there now too. But what is in the meantime, I mean, when he only has two weeks, if he does want to get, what can we advise him on the process of putting something, getting something on the floor? I believe it's kind of similar to getting it on the ballot as far as if it can be by select or approval or by petition. And then how many signatures would he need if it was by petition? A hundred? Yeah, actually, I think it's a little over a hundred right now. Yeah, do you get that, Kyle? Yeah, I love the specific number and any advice you can give me on specifically what I need and when I need it by would be great. If you give Rosemary a call in the morning, she can tell you that right off. Although remember it's a moving target. Let's hope we get a lot more people registered to vote in the next month. The number would go up. So you'll want some extras when you go to do that. Ben's also said he'll make sure you get some info, okay? Now that he's got the right email address, it's not kicking back. Thanks. What do you have in else for round table? Can I ask a question? Nothing to do with what we're talking about. Did anything end up happening as far as getting as EMD? It's on the next agenda. Yeah, yeah, we need to do two quick things. Sorry. Received an email from a gentleman by the name of Clark Amidon and he is a fishing enthusiast and also he's not a resident but he pointed out to us that and sent some photos that are it's in your package as well with regards to the very city station down on 302 potentially looking some frosty woods into the river. There was concern over the quantity and how this happened, how long it's been going on and thanks. Long story short, I called the very city manager at a long discussion with him about that. He was well aware of it. Mr. Amidon had also talked to them as well and and some others in the public works department and things. They did have a pump failure down there. They did replace that pump with a larger pump and they are in the process of going out to RFP to actually rebuild that pump station down there on 302. So it's his basic position was there's really it was from his perspective it was a minor indirect discharge with minimal impact. Is that pump station in Berlin or is it in Berry? We don't have lines in Berlin. I think it's over the line but the flow comes into Berlin and that was his concern. Right because he was fishing on the Berlin side but that flow coming in apparently. We don't really have much jurisdiction on this. The letter's in there with a little more detail about what he wrote but I did talk to the very city manager and he was well aware and they took action. The state had been involved. They responded in time. Did their due diligence. But again if you hear anything or anybody says anything about it, it's important that you be aware. Thank you. The last thing I have is a question. I had a gentleman contact the office that is interested in purchasing town property that orders his land up off from the Belknap Road. There's 18 we have a 17.5 18 acre parcel up there that orders his property at the end of Belknap Road that he would be interesting in purchasing from the town if they're interested in selling it. Do you have an offer? He has not. He first wanted to know if the board was interested. Well from there. Almost have to go through the conservation but they're the ones that manage it. But we don't really usually, not unless it was to pick up another track or something. I would have him all the way out to the conservation. I'll speak to the conservation committee as well and ask them their position. Thank you. No, those are my only two. Yeah, we're there. Entertaining motion for contract. Move to adjourn. It looks like we're moving into the executive session. Discussion. Go to the favor say aye. Aye. Aye. We're in executive session.