 People are going to find that out very soon. Well, you know, there's another thing, too. I've had over the last 20 years so many cameras on me. Oh, Lord. I'm at the point where it's okay to have another camera. That's good. Yeah, so you're actually cool with it. Well, that's nice. I've had cameras in extremely invasive that can be done to me anymore. This is exactly what I was thinking about. It is? Nightshade presents Dr. Burish Blame for Lakintah fire. Oh, lovely. George Knapp here. Oh, lovely. Reporting from Lakintah. Right. Beautiful. Okay. What we're doing, I'm very pleased to be with Dan Burish. Yeah, I'm just going to use myself. Well, actually, I would like you to sort of give a brief introduction to who you are and what you're known for. Maybe you'd like to be known for? Aside from cantankerous activities and disobeying certain authority structures. Oh, well, I'm a microbiologist, a retired one now. Continuing somewhat the practice involved in a very unusual project called Lotus. I am a 20 year retiree from Majestic. First having been brought in in 1986 under the auspices of the committee of the majority. And specifically working for the Majestic 12 assigned to Project Aquarius. I suppose I'm more known for meeting a J-Rod and working at S4. Aside from that, I don't really know what I'm known for. Aside from irritating a bunch of people on the web that don't want to hear about me. Okay, so you worked for Majestic and you were basically, I mean, in brief. And I know there's a really long history as to how you ended. Right, Lotus was an accessory project. It wasn't. It was funded because everything that I was doing at the time was being funded, ultimately, by them. But it was an accessory project. It wasn't something of a critical nature for the Majestic or as I believed for a long time. However, the principle of the Lotus ultimately ended up being a rather earth-shaking item for the participants at the T9 conference a couple of years ago. What is the T9 conference? During the course of speaking with extraterrestrials and our interactions with them from the 1950s onward, there have been a series of treaties established between we and they. They meaning the future human intelligence time travelers. And there have been, as a consequence of our relationship with them, there have been more than one treaty system in place. During the last of one of those treaty negotiations and signing times, I had the privilege of being in the presence of the negotiators at the conference, which was held in the state of New Mexico. And there were how many aliens present at that time? There were two, four, six, and a few strollers behind the curtains. So we had a few... I'm sorry, what was that reference? They're unable to cope for long periods of time in our atmosphere, our present atmosphere. They've adapted, if you will, to the atmospheres of their particular future timeline. And as a consequence, coming here would be oppressive to them existing in our standard temperature and our pressure. So they have been provided a unique sealed off pressurized systems that they would be moved around in by their attendants, basically in a segue type transport system, where you can push it and it will actually move forward very easily, maneuver it. I see. So that's what you meant by stroller system? Right. And so they were encapsulated in their strollers in their positions as negotiators for their time. And... Are you saying that these aliens that were present at this conference, that happened what, this year, last year? A couple years ago. In which they discussed, I'm assuming it was the lowest... Between 2003 and 2004. I'm sorry? Between 2003 and 2004. Okay. And they discussed the Lotus project? It was brought up and, in fact, as part of the negotiations, the P plus 45,000 group of J-Rods wanted the codes for the Lotus principle added into the treaty negotiations so that they could use it in their own attempts to ameliorate their particular neuropathies. Wow. So they saw the value. They saw the value right away. They saw a potential value for it and they wanted to use it for that purpose. It was my argument that it should not be used for a particular purpose, that this is moreover part of a natural system, which has been put in place by whatever God did, one would want to, Dain as being the creator of the universe, as part of a natural system and not to be controllable by humankind. Or by alien kind? Well, they're humans. They're human lineage. Okay, you consider them humans. They're humans. Okay. The human beings, albeit different from what we would expect to see as a human being. But then again, if we look in the history, the presently accepted history of the evolution of humankind, if one were to walk into a conference held by Neanderthals, one would be taken aback. Well, in the same way, one may be taken aback by walking into a conference with these gentlemen. Okay. So, you've got two kinds of aliens and people that are watching this, some people may have no idea about the T2, the two timelines. Probably not. We actually had three kinds of extraterrestrials, human lineage extraterrestrials present. Two kinds of P plus 45,000 years from now, we were to translate over to timeline two difficult subjects, aren't they? Two representatives from that time, two representatives from P plus 52,000 years ahead, J-Rodds, both of which generally have the anatomical configuration of what would be in ufology called grays or aliens. And two representatives from P plus 52,000 Orion's, who would generally, I guess in ufological circles, I guess one could say, would be called Nordics or Tals. Okay. Who actually look more human-like but have larger eyes, very blue eyes, blondish hair, et cetera. I see. And, okay, well, of course I've got many questions on the score. So do I. But, and for people listening, we would also like to know were there any reptilians present? No, not per se. Okay, good. What I've come to understand and it's generally held, I think I could say it's generally held within our society, that the notion of a reptilian is a misnomer. And I'm not saying that to apply a negative connotation to the stories that individuals have brought forward, probably mostly forthrightly, but that when you view or observe what would be called a gray, what I would call a J-Rodd, the particular ready configuration of their skin, the changes of the suitoruferous glandular structure of their skin, can make them appear during exacerbations of the illness, very reptilian in appearance, and also possibly praying mantis type in appearance. They're also suffering from a cocaine-like syndrome, which makes them lurch forward. So they appear very praying mantis-like. So I think that possibly many of the accounts which have forthrightly come from individuals whom have actually been abducted by the P-45s have maybe been interpreted as being reptilian in appearance because of their skin structure, but they're not really reptiles. Now I'm not saying, I'm trying to be inclusive here, that there are things in the mind of man and in the glorious universe of God that I don't know, that there's a possibility that individuals have encountered alien species not to my reference. Given the fact, I mean, gosh, I've had to accept the fact that there are human beings that many years ahead of us on another timeline co-existing in reality. How hard would it be for me to accept that there are other extraterrestrials of non-human lineage, of which I've only been briefed about one, which is an extra-dimensional species whom have referenced other extraterrestrial species that I know nothing about? How hard is it for me to accept that after I've been in the presence of a human lineage extraterrestrial? I don't have a problem with that, but at the same time, I don't have evidence to support it either. Reptilian in that, if one were under stress and one had no previous reference to their biology, their pathophysiology, their particular problems, one could reasonably expect out of a group of people experiencing them that more than 50% of the group could probably say that there were reptilian in appearance. That's interesting. So their appearance morphs to some degree into more of a reptilian under stress, is what you're saying? I'm saying that people could interpret them that way, reasonably be expected to interpret them that way if they do not have a scientific grounding into what they're looking at. I'm trying to be inclusive of reports of individuals that have no reason to have come forward and say things that they've said for other than the fact that they've experienced something. I'm trying to understand or maybe help people to understand why they may have interpreted it as well, these things in this way. However, they may have actually come into contact with something which wasn't fully reptilian in appearance. I don't know. I'm trying to be honest but at the same time tell people because apparently it's happened to me that it's okay that they were abducted and that it's happened. Okay, apparently what has happened to you? Well, in 1973 I was playing in a park in Southern California in May Boyer Park and this is going to probably come out in one or more of the versions of the debriefing with me. I was playing baseball with my grandpa in the park and I was having him throw me a ball so I could catch it over my shoulder. I was trying to run away at the same time that he would throw the ball so I could try to catch the ball like Willie Mays's famous catches. During one of these throws of the ball I remember looking up toward the sun because it was high in the sky at the time. It was summertime and glancing away because the sun was blinding me looking down toward the grass which was very bright green at the time and then seeing a flash where the grass appeared to turn black. I appeared, from my perspective I was covered in a shadow. The shadow reminded me of a triangular bat kite that I had played with my grandfather over the riverbed nearby and that's the way I basically was able to describe it at the time. I was nine at the time. Then I remember a flash. Immediately there's a disjoint memory of this. It's not contiguous. Where I saw my grandfather sitting over by a tree several yards away from me and the sun had clearly moved in its aspect to me so time had clearly passed. The earth had moved and time had passed at least several hours had passed. He was very shook up. I ran over to him and asked him what happened and he didn't want to talk about it and he said, you're okay now, you're okay now and he wanted to go home. So he walked me home immediately over the overpass over Del Ammo Boulevard and we went home. This precipitated a major domestic upset between my grandparents and my mom and dad. Ultimately this domestic upset resulted in my grandparents moving out and around that same time I was having unusual dreams and in the dream I would wake up. Do I think that there were probably dreams now? No, but I would wake up and I would walk from my bedroom through the restroom which connected between my bedroom and a small laundry area that went to a doorway off the north side of our house. And to the right of that laundry area there was a closet. That's the closet where my grandpa put his work jacket and his work boots. He worked at gaffers and saplers as an enamel dipper dipping pieces in enamel for manually for things like appliances, stoves, etc. And he would come home every day just covered in enamel dots all over his jacket and his boots and I would open the door to that closet and that's all I can remember from the dream. But I knew that I was meeting somebody called Harry. He was a little friend and I know that it's knowledge that I met a little friend there but I have no visual memory of what Harry looked like. It was finally because I finally told my mom and dad about it and it was finally rationalized because I was still watching Sesame Street at the time. That was Oscar the Grouch and that's the way my mom put it. She said, you're thinking about Oscar the Grouch because he looks furry and hairy and from that time on as the dreams continued I then remember seeing Oscar the Grouch in my dream but not in the closet in the restroom but I remember just seeing a picture of Oscar the Grouch so I felt very calm about it after that. I accepted it as a boy. So you were abducted in something that you don't remember the details of. Is that the actual experience? I told you what the actual memory of it from my boyhood is it. Now I remember possibly and I'm not sure over the years whether this was confabulation or not because I was a boy at the time I think I remember seeing a tall person like if you take a movie frame like one frame like a flash of a still picture like an iconic memory almost of a tall person standing next to him at the tree. Next to your grandfather? My grandpa. He refused until the day he passed to discuss what happened. He would become extremely agitated and John and Dodie for certain who had many conversations with him and maybe even John would This is your father and mother? Yeah. They're my mom and dad that I grew up with I've learned certain things about my family since then that are really neither here nor there having to do with who is actually biological father biological mother and things like that but they were my mom and dad they're my mom and dad they're the mom and dad that I remember growing up with But they are not MJ-1 No. MJ-1 somehow this this abduction occur your experience seem to have resulted in you becoming or being viewed as the son of MJ-1 Is that correct? What happened is this I also learned of what happened to me from Kaela the J-Rod that I met at S-4 he showed me from his perspective what had happened to me in 1973 I saw myself being pulled by my chest upward off the surface of the park I saw my grandfather going like this and basically panicking crying because he wasn't able my grandpa was very protective of me and he wasn't able to protect me and now I understand God bless him why he was so upset One person in his whole life that he knew that he would protect that he loved that much to protect he couldn't at that moment and I understand why he was so upset but the J-Rod showed me what happened to me that I was picked up and that I was laid down on a table in some sort of a craft and that this craft was a generally chevron shaped almost triangular shaped craft and I was laid down next to a series of young people one of which was in fact the son of the former MJ-1 something went wrong during the course of my time on board the craft when samples were being taken of me for their studies and the son of the former MJ-1 died during that time they put some sort of equipment on me it almost looked like EEG type neural net if you will receivers probes electrodes if you will on me and they were trying to save desperately trying to save and I could see the movement of the J-Rods around this other boy and I know what he looked like and all of that in the eyes of Kyla they were trying to save him and he ultimately passed during that time apparently they were trying with whatever technology that they employ to save the boy by storing him that Kyla was with the P-45s at the time these were P-45s thousands of J-Rods and they looked at us as no more than containers or cylinders almost almost like beakers full of material of electromagnetic material and so they were trying to save store his his energy if you will right Marcia suggested the word vessels right they were trying to store him for a while I guess in me now my memory of myself at the time was a rather dull boy that liked to play baseball and with G-I-JOs and things like that the record of me at the time was that I had an okay acuity in science that's what the elementary school teachers were saying I don't remember having acuity like that in science but I had this joint in my own story of myself because of this because after I was put down back in the park over the course of the next couple of years there were changes in me but then again there should have been because I was growing up but there was a substantive intellectual change where I was no longer interested in those same things of my youth was that maturation probably some of it was it a change as a result of what was done with me on board the craft the majestic thinks so thinks that it had something to do with that other boy because that other boy was known as very bright in the sciences and all of a sudden true enough I got a hankering for Erlenmeyer flasks and boiling flasks and microscopes that I had never had before and I've possessed ever since on some level the MJ1 son that was on the craft next to you that possibly received a sole transfer from is the MJ group had to be cognizant of what was going on they knew that that had happened and they knew during the time he's admitted to me that they knew that that had happened but in other words was this so you were chosen in a sense I believe that I was the only evident I don't know I don't know the evidence that I have was that I was hearing about the sampling program was that I was picked up as a random population sample the son of a blue collar worker and just the son of my family was a total blue collar but there are a lot of coincidences that suggest that people were moved into a place to later teach me that happened before 1973 can I put my finger on that and say oh yeah they knew what was going to happen to me and that I was going to be picked up I can't say that because I wouldn't be honest but I get the feeling as though Marcia has held up two letters to me LG for looking glass oh I see I see I'm sitting here in the presence of an individual that actually knows more of the truth and cannot tell me for whatever reason more of the truth about what's happened to me than I know she's just held up the word the letters LG for looking glass she's indicating to me that they knew and looking glass is the ability to look into the future so what you're suggesting is that MJ MJ12 was using looking glass perhaps saw that the son that the first son of MJ1 was going to die and planned to groom you to carry on in his place it's possible I've been told by them that did Jay Rogers excuse me but the hints have been forthcoming that that is the reality involved because I mean even and I don't know for certain that he was ever read into the program God bless him Jim my mentor Dr. Jim Reynolds he was moved into places that almost set him up perfectly for Dodie's call my mom's call that day to talk with him at Long Beach Memorial Hospital and she has since admitted she admitted to Marcy that she received a sum of money there are some not good things here and I still love them both for everything that they've done for me but yet there's an incompatibility now because I'm still the eight or nine year old boy in their eyes that they are willing to try to take sovereignty away from it produces an incompatibility in the relationship what we're trying to find out though is how did you hook up with MJ1 after that the first time that I saw him was at the back of the meeting room at the Marcy Page Museum when I was a member of the Los Angeles Microscopical Society how old were you 13 14 it was a few years after I started becoming really interested in all of the beakers and the microscopes and things like that where I was introduced to Jim Reynolds at Long Beach Memorial Medical Center Jim Reynolds then introduced my mom and myself who was then an associate professor of protozoology as I understand at the University of Southern California he was also the head of DHOS Optical a microscope salesman who then put me in contact with the Los Angeles Microscopical Society at the George C. Page Museum with whom he was associated as a member as a senior member in fact at the time during the course of my association with the L.A. Micro Society I saw the former M.J.1 walking the back doorway I sat at the back right of the room which was where my spot kind of was and I noticed him just standing back there and he kind of just blended in with the crowd that was kind of coming and going and he looked at me and I looked at him because he was laying a little too long of a gaze on me and I was paranoid as it was I was scared to death just being around these bright people these were accomplished scientists Zane Price was one of them who was the head of the Electron Micro Lab at UCLA I mean these were accomplished people and I noticed he laid this gaze on me from the back of the room and he took his lighter and he lit it was a Zippo lighter and it had a United States Navy seal on it and he just popped it and lit it and closed it up and walked out the back door I had no idea who this dude was scared to ask anybody because I didn't want to look stupid I was a geeky team later on I found out that he just wanted to introduce himself to me early on he wanted to see where I was and his association was already established because of the son Michael and all of that business from 73 this was like 1975 1976 right in that general time frame so okay that's my first meeting with him but I didn't really meet with him at the time he showed himself to me I understand and you have since developed a relationship with him such that there is affection there and he does consider you his son he treats me very son like yes but would you also say that it's his he regards you as his son literally I mean he must be conscious of the shift or the transfer that took place he knows what happened on board we had long discussions about this okay in fact during the short well we had an entire night discussion about it one night you know I'm trying to do the right things by everybody and that's the only reason why to be honest my debriefing must come out to the public to the extent that the authentic truthful message of what I've seen comes out and that concerns the extraterrestrial issue but the rest of it my losing my knees out at May Boyer Park and falling at the base of the tree where my grandpa was that's not required but for people to know that it's not bullshit as messed up as they are honestly when I saw Bill Hamilton's segment interview with you you're talking about your relationship with Jayrod and how you communicated with him telepathically that struck me as incredibly real and from that point on I was very interested in what you had to say because I said this man this man really experienced this this is not this is not bullshit this is the real thing so if you could reiterate kind of how you started working with Jayrod he was working with me before I ever knew it of course he was on board as I understand may have no memory of him directly but as I understand it in 73 he had traveled to 73 and then this is even what I said to Jeff Rentson on the phone I said my god if this doesn't boggle I mean it boggles my mind when you think about paradoxes to start with that he traveled to 73 I was picked up and then he subsequently traveled back to the 53 time frame and there was a crash which means that he was held at S4 in 1973 at the time that I was playing baseball with my grandpa and that he was also on board of the craft impinging into our time lifting me up prosaically I mean it sounds crazy but you know it's a paradox I guess I mean but I actually came into direct contact with him at the end of 1993 started in 94 there is something wrong with him during the entirety of my experience around him he appeared the best that I can describe as off shifted almost like I mean he was physical I felt him through the glove there was matter there with me but almost like he was a ghost he didn't belong he did not belong where he was yet when he would communicate when he would do the entrainment they thump you it's almost acoustically they thump you until they finally come into contact with the brain level ways where they can begin communicating and it comes in waves it's almost like plucks of dolphin it comes in waves and then you feel yourself pulled in the entrainment is occurring the perception is being pulled into his eyes very unwieldy feeling but then they entrain bringing you down to relax relaxed almost to a theta state like an 8 hertz theta state where you're almost like drowsy and they tell you they're not going to hurt you he did that he actually said that he would not harm me when he stepped forward on me when we were doing the old brides dance as we nicknamed it where I was supposed to step forward to him almost like taking a brides step up the aisle and then he did the thing back to me almost jokingly but it was so unwieldy because he broke the protocol it's like everything that had been established of trust at that moment it went to hell and I got so afraid there was an animal response in me at that moment a very very human animalistic response of getting me the hell out of here and I stepped backward and fell backward onto my back and that is really what I perceived myself as doing I said to Jeff I said felt like I was a cockroach lying on my back in there and he walked up onto me and I heard them yelling fire the repress they were going to entomess him they were going to hurt him so that he wouldn't hurt me and I was trying to yell no and I'm not even sure to this day if I really yelled no or if it was just in my mind the stress was that bad at the moment and he walked literally walked up onto me and sat on my chest he didn't knock me over I mean there was like Ron or a couple other people said oh you know he knocked you over he was too weak to knock me over even if he wasn't given his size he couldn't have knocked me over and how tall was he? just a little over three feet hunched down almost four feet if he was to be extended out lengthwise if he would be lying on his back and extended out lengthwise but the malady the pathologies under which he was suffering caused him to have weakness change of gait, change of stance where most of the time he was extremely hunched over forward and he really couldn't stand up straight when he would walk he would wobble and kind of shuffle so he got on your chest he walked onto your chest or sat on your chest he was actually sitting on my abdomen area moving forward with his hands onto my chest was he so he was communicating at that moment that he wasn't going to hurt you? yes he said I won't hurt you be any he called me be any and that goes to Beanie he broke English up very strangely um and you've heard this in your head I'm assuming I heard it in my head it wasn't out loud no I heard it in my head no voice but clearly not coming from me um you know the sound of yourself when you talk to yourself it's the same sound except it's the wrong linguistics it's the wrong wording you could tell it's not you and initially when that happens too there is a from my perspective initially when it was happening there was a very panicky feeling but of course that initially happened when I was part of the B unit team when Steven was still going in to the clean sphere he looked at me through the clean sphere and spoke to me and said I remember and hello to me meaning he the person who it was you call what is his name again the J. Rod looked at you Kaela looked at you when you when Steve was in the clean sphere with him he turned around and looked at you and he turned around and looked at me I was part of the B unit team to start with in fact that was going to be my actual occupation in there was assisting the chief scientist and going into the clean sphere until he identified me as somebody I guess special to him Kaela and he wanted me to be the person to go in there that's why I was promoted ultimately to the working group leader in there because I didn't have the background did not have the seniority in place but that's why the promotion happened well a lot of promotions happen in the world I think but to go back to where the Peter principle so he went on to your chest he told you he wasn't going to hurt you did they actually zap him then or did they I don't believe so because I would have felt he began to entrain me immediately and strongly and he asked me the in Keflins the endorphins were going big time they entrain on several levels and they're able to relax you by actually flooding you with natural opiates and your runner's high so what happened after that I'm assuming you got to the high that you receive as you're going through natural death process yeah when you naturally kick out the opi you know what happened after that after that I began to sink away from what was going on in the clean spear and with a panic that was going on over the radios because I heard them we had two separate units and a unit and a B unit on the radio there were like separate radio frequencies and I could push the button and talk independently but they were stepping over each other screaming saying get a secondary unit ready to get me out of there again to pull me out and you can't just step in there that quickly they've got to suit somebody up bring them in and you knew before you were going in there that the J-Rod we were trained that they were a threat so that we were not supposed to communicate privately with them or anything like that that we had a certain job to do and we were to get it done and that was the scientific job of removing samples and then the studying of the samples for the back engineering these were the reversing chemicals the idea was to reverse an illness that he and his people have the 52 the 52s and what we were trying to do initially jumping off onto the biology a little bit what we were trying to do is we were trying to actually strip the exterior cytoplasm offering the cells and produce cells which would be independently functioning then to understand those cells biochemically genetically so that those cells could then be re-added as a graft into the J-Rod to attempt to ameliorate the neuropathy that's what one of the stated goals was easier said than done we were told though that if something would go wrong in there there would be no immediate fix you weren't a million miles away but you were several thousand when you were inside there so you were very alone even though you had radio communication it was essentially being isolated on the space shuttle if you will and not that easily easy to get you home because they had to do all of the repressurization of the gantry bring somebody new in then get you out then get you detox the cleansing the decontamination and then get you out of there then get you out of the suit then give you medical treatment so we're talking a couple hours so if something goes wrong in there and they were potentially able to harm you because of the entrainment you're dead and that's you accepted before you ever accepted going in there but to a large part it wasn't it wasn't bravado on our part saying it's no big thing but you had to accept that just to work inside the facility you knew that if there was a contamination if the alarms started going off the old joke was get a straight back chair and lean way over and kiss your goodbye it was over because if the alarms started going off you were sealed into the facility and they were going to pump the gas in and fire the fuel air device boom that's what the explosive valves were for the so called escape tunnels for you to get out in case there was an emergency those were blow off vents so they could blow off and explode the facility blow off out of the the papoose range and keep the remainder of the facility intact so but your experience with the J-Rod and the other ones you've met has basically were you afraid for your life at any time? I was afraid for my life when he stepped toward me absolutely at that moment but it was a very transient it was an ephemeral moment how did you it passed off very quickly because biochemistry helped me calm down when he trained me how did you feel though in your interactions with him in other words do you feel that you didn't remember knowing him in the original meeting in the spaceship right but he remembered clearly he remembered so did you feel that you actually developed a friendship with this being and that it grew over time or did you feel that it was instantly there? that's a good question I'll say that I felt a kinship to him all along from the time that he first looked over at me and that may have been a consequence of me being picked up in the park that may have been my trust in what he was saying to me grew over time does that remember asking you that specifically asking you that my trust grew over there was an instant kinship there with him and I think that may have started because of the pickup in 73 I think but I'm trying to surmise it there was a pickup of the jovial nature of our friendship over time certainly because I've got kind of a strange sense of humor and he was able to be friends with that kind of same weird sense of humor where he would look over at me he would tell me that what his behavior was because I couldn't tell when he was happy or when he was sad because of physical characteristics that easily you can tell fairly quickly with a human being from now if they're happy if they're smiling at you but I couldn't tell if that was pain or what it was on his face until he specifically informed me that's his smile that's his laugh as that grew my relationship with him grew I became more attuned to his physical responses as well and I think that picked our friendship up as well because I'm more associating with another human being with physical reactions as well in the communication and they were less so so that was difficult that was very difficult until I became attuned where I became more relaxed what his physical responses were when I knew he was laughing after that then that got me into trouble with the folks in the facility because I reacted naturally to his physical responses and so I would smile or whatever over at him I would say what is transpiring between you two I hear it come over the radio sometimes I would out and out lie to them and say nothing because I was afraid I did I had a fear of losing his friendship too because I wanted to learn more from him and so I was willing and these are the same people that will point a gun at me with very little compunction against it I was willing to befriend him too because he was a captive there as I was feeling too a captive within majestic because I had been brought into a program that I had no clue before what I was being brought into so I felt kind of trespassed against too so you had a camaraderie in that sense we were both prisoners in our own right did you think that he had the ability to protect you no in fact it was if anything it was the other way around I was covering for him and a lot of his anger he had anger in him too and pain and anger as a result of pain from the samples being removed I was covering for him by not telling them of the anger because then they would have followed an operant conditioning protocol that had been set in against him to penalize him so I was actually protecting him so who's a human being for Christ's sake if you get stuck with a needle enough times you get perturbed and when you're being treated like crap on top of it prisoners are prisoners in what way was he treated like crap if he wouldn't respond as they told him they would fire a repressed valve and change the pressurization in the clean sphere causing mild to moderate intumescence a change of pressure in his skin because he was of lesser density physical density as in weight per volume the reason why I'm clarifying that is I've heard a lot of new AG comments about fourth density I don't know about all of that as in weight per volume density he was less dense physically than we were his bone structure was less dense than we were so when they would fire the repressed valve or they would intumesce him it would cause him great pain and I was screaming no and I think, you know, at the time that he stepped up onto me I think they thought the better of it at the moment because he was clearly in training me at that moment so if they would have fired the pressurization at that point I would have felt the pain that he was feeling he could kill me, I don't know you developed a from what I understand you developed the ability to actually feel his pain well it wasn't even developed it was immediate the thing which was developed and I'm not sure it may have actually been some sort of a neurological habituation I'm not certain of that but the thing which was developed was the inability to disentrain to break off from him even when you left the cleans sphere in other words, regardless of where you were within a certain range within, you know, like a 15 meter range from him for example, right now right now, could you feel his pain? if you wanted you to feel it, could you? no, I don't believe so I don't believe that they're capable I mean, you know, we're talking now we're talking time difference his lack of physical existence in our reality and even if we're talking no time difference we're talking about a linear distance of how far between here and reticulum good god he's back at reticulum now as far as I'm aware as far as I'm aware my stomach is growling I must be getting hungry as far as I'm aware that's where he returned to that's the best information I have and frankly from the time that when it happened in 2003 they don't even want to discuss the matter with me because it's a real sore point I didn't know I was not supposed to you pushed him through a time I pushed him into the target units into the gray patch between the posts and that was the end at the end of your relationship with him? that was the end of it, it's the last time I saw him it was the end of their relationship with him too, which is why they're so pissed off why were you motivated to push him into it? he asked me to he told me you wanted to go home you wanted to see his son so I did so he was a prisoner but we were in a position I'm thinking this was in Egypt somehow you guys were taken to Egypt yeah I was flown there and so was he yeah but over a different transport he was already present by the time of my arrival there was a communication protocol going on he was communicating something I was never really told all I was told was that there was a problem with his communication and they wanted me to be there to bring him to relax or whatever to facilitate the discussion and so they wanted me basically there as a as an idol of the theater as an idol of the theater they wanted me present they wanted me there as a ruse of kinship with him and the kinship was no ruse and that's something that they misinterpreted over these years that I have more of a kinship with a present day human versus him and to me although he was offset although he appeared different that he didn't belong he's still a human being and a human is a human is a human to me so I had a true friendship with him there was a true affection there between the two because he was showing me things from his childhood and I was showing him things from mine and we were actually enjoying each other's experience of each other a friendship it was a true friendship and I don't really think that majestic ever regarded it that way they feel themselves so damn superior or that we're superior to them and maybe it's a reaction I don't know maybe I'm rationalizing it that it's a reaction to the p45's feeling that we're inferior the so-called rogue's feeling of us maybe it's some sort of a railing against that or a reaction against that that they develop the attitude I don't know but I know that I wasn't superior to him and he wasn't superior to me much brighter but we're still just human beings and just because somebody is brighter than somebody else it doesn't mean they're superior I'm just trying to figure out why in Egypt he was there and obviously doing some work with them he was there as part of a communication program that they had ongoing after our program well way after almost a decade well I mean it had ended in 96 and we had some more briefings in 97 but that was about it so you're saying that this happened recently that you pushed him into the Stargate industry and I could tell from the relationship with him that he was being honest with me now again there have been those that have criticized and said well look this guy is 52,000 years along an evolutionary line which does not necessarily make him smarter but certainly not better the pathology but that he had the ability if he was a human being to lie and we talked with each other about lying and Majestic never knew that but he told me about things which would be happening in the future inconsequential generally inconsequential things and then there were some very consequential items but some generally inconsequential things that happened subsequent which told me not only was he from the future that he had access to future material because nobody could have predicted conversations but that he was being honest with me as well I could feel his heart and that's all we can really do you know they turn it into a joke on coast to coast the coast to coast AM challenge with Bill Burns and George Norrie will you step up to the plate and take this polygraph exam now because polygraph doesn't work if a polygraph worked we wouldn't need juries we judge other people other human beings by their honesty by empirical data and evidence as well but by their spirit as well and the spirit that I judged him by was what I was feeling from him from his heart from his mind and I judged him by his relationship with his child by how he regarded his mother by all of these things that we choose to regard in the human family to make decisions about each other the same things these common things were still present there were very uncommon aspects to their society to the negating of emotion and the negating of personal names out in society but still being carried within families there was a common theme to the human family which was still extant in his time and I used that as part of my prudent discernment of him or God I hope it was that he was a good human being so you assisted him in going through the Stargate I pushed the Segway type transport set on the stroller they looked like bell jars almost over the top of Segway type strollers where you could almost waist height where the bar was where you could push it in whatever direction and it took very little effort to move it and he asked me to go home so you pushed him and what happened to you when you pushed him I pushed forward then the next feeling was a feeling of numbness for a brief moment I thought I really screwed up maybe killed myself or whatever because I literally felt numb everywhere then I remember a flash of gray and then I was seated coughing on a block about 20-30 meters away maybe and I had people rushing up to me still over dramatically actually cocking an automatic firearm at me screaming at me and I was grabbed, picked up from the block and taken over and said you're under arrest I had committed a violation of the protocols I was being threatened with weapons to my head what did he say to you or you a spy they were just acting paranoid I wasn't a spy I just shoved him into the star gate and he went bye bye and that's essentially what happened how did majestic react after that to you very angry very angry including the people with whom I'm the closest save the one present very angry toward me and how does majestic act when it's angry I mean I guess this gets back to haven't you been tortured isn't this right I wouldn't I don't call it torture aside from the fact that I've been falsely imprisoned that's torture I was put at S4 in level 3 and basically told that's where you are for now level 3 meaning what's it a cell it was one of the rooms one of the small suites if you will which were originally put in there's 12 of them in this trident there's a three groups of four and they were put in bay unit 1 over to the left it was essentially it contained all the amenities I could ask for food got anything I wanted except I couldn't leave there was no free I consider that torture the other items are acts of unkindness and acts of unkindness from majestic can arrange from everything from psychological unkindness being rude to you to being threatening to being physically harmful and I have been beaten I have been slapped I have been physically restrained meaning handcuffed and beaten and slapped I have been put under lights well I had friends doing that to me but I had put under intense lights while being handcuffed as an interrogated I have been told to shut my mouth to the point where two people grabbed me one shoved me down on the floor of a garage and the other one stomped on and broke my hand so and these were the members of majestic that carried out these attacks and it was any hires not the J members these are operatives operatives as in security personnel I see not the one through twelve none of them have laid an unkind hand on me ever great affection if anything out of them but they were under orders one can show great affection to a pet these okay so you were viewed as a pet by some of them but you were also mistreated on their orders I'm not saying I was viewed as a pet I'm saying I don't know what they're truly carrying in their hearts in their minds and so there exists a possibility that affection can be granted either honestly or disingenuously it can be granted person to person on the same level or as an act of condescending well let's back up a tiny bit majestic she brought up the name Tenet tenet cool a bit I just started talking here too much George Tenet was a former director of central intelligence for the United States of America now we're moving on okay so but what you were saying about majestic has got me interested that's okay you're basically saying that majestic is operating as independent of the government is that correct or are they operating under yes and no they were set independent of direct presidential authority as far back as the late 40s however there's more than one individual who sets who has set as a member of the 12 who are intimately involved with the United States government to include its highest levels okay and so those people were actually okay it's time to put the tap dancing shoes on okay those people were actually ordering you to be as a result let's say of this you know sort of overstepping the line pushing Jayrod into the Stargate they were ordering you to be sequestered to be beaten or harmed in some way by the time that happened all the beatings happened prior to that by the time that happened there was basically they didn't know what to do with me it took everybody so by surprise me too what I did they didn't know what to do and so they really didn't I mean you know I got hauled around there at the site for a while and I got hauled back here to the US but I was basically after that just don't go home they didn't know what to do so is this why you've been released from majestic is because of this incident no it was coming near the end of my time my usefulness basically anyway aside from being a almost an elder statesman with because I've been around for like 20 years my physical condition has gotten worse not well physically so I would not be of any use inside of a laboratory why is there I understand that there's been some kind of adjournment and now there's a new body and it's not going to be comprised of the same people as the old body so why why have they changed what's the motivation there's a switch over between two secret societies going on one is handing reins over to the other and it has been long plant however it's not been long known by me but it's been long, long plant probably decades I'm certain it has to have been for decades so majestic is ruled by a secret society is what you're saying well majestic has been the most famous next to probably the Freemasons secret society of itself and there are many of the Freemasons who inhabit the majestic as a consequence of their relationships the two things are happening at the same time and so their philosophies then the philosophies of these associated secret societies like the Scottish right and the York right are then imparted into the secret society known as the majestic so what's the quarrel between you bring who you are to wherever you are sure but what's the quarrel between say the majestic society or group and the Illuminati that is a real good and it's the best question to be asked even more importantly than the differences between the J-Rocks because this impacts us I think now many members of the upper echelon and I don't mean the hard working people who work on construction sites for God's sakes but many people who are in the upper echelon of the Masonic movement both York and Scottish right have accepted a philosophy which is Luciferian in context in history many of the people who are not directly then involved with the majestic who are also associated with that Luciferian philosophy have rubbed up against each other for decades probably even longer so somewhere along the line in history there was a schism between those individuals who have accepted a Luciferian history Luciferian philosophy mixed with other secret society people who have not that ended up in the majestic and people who have accepted a Luciferian most like a different denomination if you will accepted a Luciferian philosophy who are not associated with the majestic in other words we've got dirty coins on both sides okay and when you say a Luciferian philosophy meaning a materialistic and for lack of a better term the actual European illuminati satanic philosophy where they've given their lives, their families their sacred honor to this satanic thought of creating a world order under the person that they consider the true god which would be a Luciferian figure now these people have also separating them from the dirty coins in the majestic side these people have also been accepting of the influence of the p45 roaks who want to justify their own history by our demise of moving from timeline one over to timeline two a catastrophe and so the differences between the majestic group some of which there have been these Luciferians mixed in and the true illuminati group they're not even really true illuminati I mean that's a word that comes back meaning enlightened ones and these people are not enlightened they're simply under the influence of a false light that the differences between the two then have raised itself to ranker even though they share much in common with each other however on the majestic side you have a lot of god fearing people too a lot and I'm not talking about specifically here the twelve I'm talking about the lion people the people that we've worked with good people good people to the bone to the soul who want nothing but good for the world so basically what you're talking about is there seems to be an alliance between for lack of a better word the so called illuminati group that is satanic followers and the P45 what you call the P45 and the majestic group which even though it has some members from the illuminati basically is siding with the P52s yeah I wouldn't really call them some I would say that they they are free masons who have accepted the luciferian influence in other words I personally disagree with it the luciferian influence but are still acting as good people for the benefit of humanity exactly and then there are some that I have interacted with who are involved with the so called true illuminati in Europe that are god fearing people too there's dirty coins and there's polished coins on both sides however however the dirty coins make up the vast majority of the group on the European illuminati side okay so what is now let's get to the timelines and explain just briefly since this gets over into the future in 2012 the P45s meaning they are from the future 45,000 years ahead of 45,000 years ahead on a separate timeline than what we are presently on a timeline that we could transition over to from where we are now so if we are to accept that we transition god forbid from timeline one to timeline two they would be considered 45,000 years and 52,000 years respectively ahead of us the individuals who dumped near Roswell, New Mexico back in the 40s were approximately 24,000 years ahead of us in timeline two and that was a mission return and earth to earth time travel we are on timeline one I am assuming you are saying and we are headed for 2012 and theoretically a catastrophe that may or may not happen right around now and this catastrophe has got anything to do with Planet X there is the most honest answer I can provide you I know a lot of lore about a rogue planet coming in however the material that I've actually seen on a repetitive crossing if you will of earth with catastrophic influences happens not only because of a matter of physics of rogue and I don't mean this toward like J-Rod but rogue crossings near earth asteroids or comets what I have heard is that to precipitate the catastrophe there would be as we pass into the plane of Milky Way some sort of energetic burst through the plane of the galaxy by virtue of wormholes that are traveling that travel through the plane of the galaxy from the center of the galaxy to be depicted in ancient lore called the Serpent Rope even of the the ancients and that the Serpent Rope would return at the time of the end of the Mayan calendar revealing and there are several perspectives as to what it will reveal but that during this same time the history of the J-Rod's record that this burst will cause a disruption in the sun and that concomitantly with energetic bursts from the sun and from the wormholes which would be passing through our planet that there would be a disaster provoked by virtue of these time travel devices the Stargate devices and the time viewing devices the looking glass devices spontaneously turning on and directing an inappropriate amount of energy into the crust of the earth precipitating a geophysical disaster this geophysical disaster in accordance with the history of the J-Rod's the Iran's record that over 4 billion 157 million die over a several year period by virtue of a geophysical shift in the crust so this is what is trying to be is trying to be prevented is this right yes very true and how is it going to be prevented by the disabling and the destruction of such technology that we will naturally then pass through this serpent ropes the bursts will occur whatever that means I don't know I haven't physically seen it but the bursts will occur and there would be an imparting of energy to our planet that will gradually naturally cause changes in the human species in the life of our planet and that these changes would be positive changes to our people and I frankly think that it's already happening there's a rise worldwide and I don't think it's just given the size of the population increase but there is a rise in very spiritual talented people there is a rise in savants the indigo children it's definitely from what I've seen from reading about them a real phenomena these children are of a new time and I think they're of the time one timeline time we're seeing I think in these children these great kids an expression of what we will be in our own future our next kind of step ahead not looking millions of years ahead but our next step ahead and it's a wonderful rise in consciousness that I think will precipitate an extra renaissance for our people I see it happening the numbers that we received before the looking glass was shut down dismantled was that there would be a 19% probability with an 85% confidence that the disaster would occur that there would be a transition from timeline one to timeline two but that then means that there is an 81% chance and so the individuals who want to carry the negative are convinced that it's going to occur are not presenting the facts the facts are this is the material that we have available that we know so what you're saying is the Illuminati to get back to that thread is basically the side that believes that the transition is going to occur from one timeline to the other not only do they believe that it will occur they want to provoke it but how does it benefit them to provoke it why should they want to be P-45s they don't the living ones don't they're looking at the P-45s as a means to an end for them they're not going to live that long they're just going to live a normal human life and die so they want the control for themselves the fact that the P-45s that's how immoral these people are the fact that the P-45s to at their stage in their own development have a disaster which justifies their own history is being used as a means to an end by the Illuminati who would like to see that the population is called so that they can gain greater control don't care they just want for themselves there are really human beings that don't care or that care that little so what you're saying is the Illuminati want the catastrophe to occur so that a certain number, three quarters as the number I've heard of the humanity dies history reads about a little over two thirds that's what the history of the J-Rod actually read alright two thirds and then what? they've still had to live through earth changes and cataclysms right? but these people are also the ones who have their positions in the safety zones underground facilities etc and so they are presumed it is not known for certain that they are presumed to actually then be the progenitors if you will of the people who become the J-Rods understand but in a sense there is a thought that in a sense the P-45s side of humanity is possibly becomes almost soulless they become repressed they still have their same souls because even after 7000 more years of development I could see the soul and as you see the heart of another human being I could see the soul in Caela so it didn't come back but Caela was not a P-45 but that just means that he was 7000 years along the T-2 timeline from when the P-45s he used to be or his people used to be a P-45 and a P-46, 47, 48 yes so the soul didn't go away and then come back, it's been there but then you know what look, you can say that some people are soulless the Nazis how much soul did they have when they threw my grandpa onto a car how much soul did they have we know what they had a human soul as black as apparently what it was or as covered over in their demented brains but I still pray for them that they've even them that they've made a hole with God but they still had their souls even though it was repressed so like manner the P-45s have a soul okay well then what okay you've talked about the P-52 Orion's and the P-52 J-Rod's am I right okay what causes the split because the Orion's I'm thinking are the blonde Nordics they're the ones that prefer to stay out of the safety zones when it happens they are the survivors who do not go underground are these good is this a good division of humanity I mean the P-52 Orion Nordics I don't consider any division of humanity good I consider them the more positive of the two because I consider the positive aspects of humanity to be the spiritual aspects so you're saying the Nordic line is spiritual extremely okay so how does the Nordic line I mean you say they stay out they actually move off from earth first the J-Rod's or the precursors to the J-Rod's stay on earth for a great deal of time well after 24,000 years from the time of the transition like 24,000 years from now or 24 or so thousand years ahead of us when they crashed in Roswell in 1947 those were 24s they stay the Orion's move off first to the place after the re-establishment of the society on the surface of the earth technology is refurbished et cetera they move off to the place where the ark is held which is where our nearest body the moon where on it I'm not going to say okay because I'm having to defend against the possibility of timeline one transitioning over to timeline two in a manner different than I've been told and I'm not going to be the person who ends off the wrong information so okay but you're saying the Nordics are going to get off earth if the catastrophe happens or regardless they leave after after the catastrophe happens presumably several thousand years after it happens several thousand years I was getting the impression you were talking about that were going on spaceships or something they move off to the moon several thousand years via spacecraft they get to the place where the ark was held and they re-establish a new community from there they move to Mars from Mars to Orion talking a lot of time here the face on Mars is this are we looking at something that was left behind by the Nordics so we're looking forward we're looking forward to our future when we're looking at the ruins we're looking at a paradox of their ruins which they left on another planet in our future in our possible future okay well to come back to this she's actually got the best command of this information of anyone in the public with whom I've spoken I know thank you that's very sweet thing to say it's honest thank you we've got I'm getting another question here from our small audience and I must say that Bill Ryan is Bill Ryan, I'll be Ryan Bill Ryan is also sitting with me and listening to this amazing information and asking some good questions when we're looking at Mars now the question is this the question the question of the day is that what is going to happen what is going to happen when the transition occurs and we either continue on one or God forbid number two happens we're worried about Mars we will have much more important things to worry about at that moment let's say God willing and I think we will remain on timeline one what's going to happen with our imagery of Mars I think we'll probably remember taking images of these anomalous structures and there have been some anomalous structures imaged on the moon as well so I think we're probably going to remember that at least I think so if we don't it's not going to matter now is it so what you're saying is we're going to go back to the idea that there is no face on Mars or there will be a face on Mars and it will be presented to us at that moment is something different maybe the bricks will turn to rocks and we will get there and we will get there and find out that all of these beautiful ruins including the scorpion if you don't think it's a scorpion tell me what it is okay I'll show you the images from Star City on the top of this pyramid if it's not a scorpion tell me what it is but perhaps we're going to get there and we're going to find out that all of this presumed architecture being by virtue of the geometry that we're attempting to apply to these images is nothing more than rocks that we've never been there because at that moment because we had not transited over to timeline 2 that we have never visited there until we finally put quote-unquote man on Mars but there's a profound paradox here what it is because what I hear you saying is that we're looking through telescopes where we're receiving light in present time with a few minutes difference that's being reflected off objects on the surface of Mars but we're actually looking at a possible future that's right there are impacts into our timeline now which have occurred this is the information that I received not only from Kaela but also from the material within majestic there are impacts into our reality now our timeline now by virtue of the amount of time travel which has occurred every time they have gone back in time they have caused small paradoxes which have built up as our reality that we now perceive in other words there is actual Newtonian superimposing and that is a frightening thing to me so it's almost like putting money in the bank though every time they come from the P-45s in a sense their timeline becomes as creating a larger heap of manure well okay emphasis appreciated however nonetheless it is like a deposit towards the actual occurrence happening I mean I don't know they are agents of change in a sense they are agents of change as all human beings are agents of change but I don't know whether there is a cause effect whether there's a nexus between cause and effect having to do with their amount of time travel and the superimposition which is going on in our reality and the disaster itself I think that the disaster itself that I've read and heard is a direct consequence of the technological aspect of bringing too much energy toward us in a non-natural manner okay well basically you're saying there's two timelines I mean I'm sure you're aware of the work of physicists now that are saying look if you can have two timelines you can have two million well don't we really have three or four I'm discussing 24,000 I'm discussing 45,000 52,000 in present day how many timelines are that because these people moved ahead linearly in their timeline just because we want to call it timeline two doesn't mean that there are other effects or superimposings which are occurring on different realities during even their own timelines I mean there's a sense at which what you're talking about is not so much that the p45s for example timeline won't exist as it will actually separate from our reality and become more like a parallel reality instead of an intersecting one from what I understand the people who were just prior which would be us according to their history to the people who were just after exist as a straight vector of time so in other words God forbid the catastrophe occur it will just appear as tomorrow the catastrophe occurs etc etc and we move forward and changes start occurring in the earth there is a disaster there is a loss of huge life etc we won't probably feel anything change aside from the fact that we'll all be running scared for our lives aside from that I have no explanation okay you're saying if the catastrophe occurs but if it doesn't occur there's still the element in which we have been visited by a timeline in which really does exist in a sense and how do you un-make something which has been made that's kind of I mean it's more of a philosophical question I don't know and all I can do is defer to the creator on that issue because all we do is perturb what has told you that this is true all of the above plus information directly from Majestic I think why is Majestic in a place to know that this actually happens or doesn't happen in other words you've got you've got the looking glass technology that they use and you use and you're instrumental in discovering were you in no no no this is an original technology which was derived from ancient cylinder seals by people from our future who provided it to us meaning the roads of P-45s we wouldn't have this lovely that's right we wouldn't have this lovely technology if it wasn't planted in our past for us to use now the entirety of the technology must either be disabled or destroyed in other words to un-make the technology until at least after we pass through this time period there is no way from the deceit the conceit the avarice and the greed that I have been around over the last 20 years amongst the good side of these two dirty coins there is no way that they're not going to start this equipment back up again if it's usable after this of course they're going to come on I mean they've got this it's like a magic box to try to see into the future what they're going to do with our future with with regard to that I've got no clue I have no power over it and I have no clue okay so this looking glass technology comes from cylinder seals originally yes how? originally it was a series of instructions for accessing the wormholes which naturally pass in the hyperspace which we find ourselves and from there they worked on the technology they built the equipment from the instructions after building the equipment from the instructions they began to tweak it and find different things out about it one of the things that they found is that they could actually use it as a peering portal like a peering glass if you will to see different aspects of not only the future but the past are these Sumerian Sumerian I would say that they slightly predate Sumerian timeframe but that some of the information which came down from cylinder seals that slightly predated the Sumerian timeframe were then recopied in Sumerian seals as well and those cylinder seals oh yes and those cylinder seals to the best of my knowledge have all been obtained from Iraq some of them from Iraq yes some of them from Egypt some of them from Egypt some of them from other countries where they were being stored and and I really don't want to get my country in too many problems here and you've got go ahead for a second I want to reiterate the rogue P-45s jumped back seated this technology because that's what they wanted to do was to seed the seed the land to help facilitate the catastrophe because by placing this technology available they knew that it would be utilized and as long as we as people oh my god they wanted to go back and seed the technology because they felt that as people we would be unable to break ourselves away from using that technology how is it that this technology is being utilized now and isn't if you're talking about a wormhole isn't it the same thing as a Stargate essentially yes the technology is not being utilized now but if we find it we take it who's we? because you have warring factions you've got the Illuminati on one hand you've got the Majestic on another we as the United States as part of the UN NATO I don't really want to comment too much about NATO and who's controlling the NATO alliance at this point isn't it a fact that the Illuminati would be stealing back I mean if they want it to happen they're objective