 another death that also occurred as well. And Breanna says it correctly, this spiritual death. What do you all think God meant when he said that they died? And if we believe Breanna that they died spiritually, I believe so also, how do we take this spiritual death to be? I take it as a separation, as the fact that they are now separated spiritually from God. Because notice what's gonna be cut off from them is the one thing that's giving them life. So there's a spiritual separation also now. What is it actually that's going on with the trees and with the things they were eating? We don't know. The Bible doesn't give us a lot of information. There's people that have given this speculation with the tree of life and so forth. We really don't know. But we all would agree that being dead spiritually means that you are separated from God. A wall of separation was put up because of sin. And the desire to wanna do wrong is gonna be even more prevalent. It was even there in the garden, but they could have just by obeying and resisting the devil. They could have afforded that, but now that same desire has been passed on through all of us. Nothing physiologically changed in mankind. Nothing, nothing changed in mankind. Nothing morally changed in mankind. But now there's some sort of separation between them and God as well as the garden, which by the way, they no longer have access to. Why am I bringing this up? Because in the debate that I had, the question was brought up about us being dead. That while we were dead in our trespasses and sins, well, I take it that that didn't mean we were unable to do anything, that we were just dead separately. Just like the product of the son where he says that he was dead, now he is alive. And the only difference is he was separated from his father, now he's alive by being back with the father. But that's what I equate as dead. Why? I do not think that God is standing there asking us to do something knowing for what we can't do it. I don't think he's saying, obey me, worship me, serve me, knowing we can't. I don't think that God is being a big bully. And I'm saying this this way, you ever seen someone a big kid holding up a ball over a little kid and telling him to jump knowing for what a little kid can't jump that high? I don't think God is telling us to do something knowing for what we can't. I believe that he wants us to do it. I believe that we can do it. I just believe that we will not do it. During the fifth century of the Christian era, a new controversy arose that shook the church. It started when the premier theologian of the time, Aurelius Augustine, also known as St. Augustine of Hippo wrote a simple prayer that began to circulate throughout Christendom. Lord, give what thou commandest and command what thou wilt. A British monk by the name of Pelagius vehemently disagreed with the prayer. He declared that God would never give a command unless man was capable of his own free will and ability to accomplish it. He further maintained that man was not overcome by sin to the point where he could do nothing to satisfy God. Tracing his ideas back to their logical beginning, Pelagius went on to assert that no one was contaminated by the fall, nor were they born in sin. But a baby instead was Tabularosa, Latin for a blank sheet of paper and was therefore perfectly capable of obeying and pleasing God. If you think about it, Augustine's prayer sounds innocent enough. Lord, give what thou commandest and command what thou wilt. What was Augustine asking of God? Augustine was recognizing that all of life is grace, that we live, we breathe, we do what we do because God enables us to be that way and to live that way. So by acknowledging our utter dependence upon God, he asks for the grace and then acknowledges you command whatever you will. Give the grace to do what you command. You've commanded us to worship. Lord, grant us the ability to worship. You've commanded us to pray. Grant us the ability to pray. You've commanded us to evangelize. Grant us the ability to evangelize. And every real Christian at his best moment would acknowledge the rightness of both of those requests because when we pray, we're asking God to do for us what we can't do for ourselves. God command what you will and give what you command. In other words, we're dependent upon the grace you give us to accomplish in us your own commands. As the church continued into the Middle Ages and the Bishop of Rome became the so-called, quote, visible head of the church, end quote, these Pelagianizing tendencies metastasized and like a cancer began to spread. By the time we reached the Reformation, Rome was teaching that man saved himself by cooperating with the grace of God, a position known as semi-Pelagianism. That along came the mediating view of the semi-Pelagians that said man is neither dead nor well. In this life, man is born sick. Now, if man is born well, as Pelagius said, all he needs is a little guidance, a little moral guidance in his life to stay upon the path. If man is sick, then he needs the help of a physician. And if he will cooperate with his physician, then he and the physician can affect his cure. Adam, excuse me, Augustine said that man today is born dead in trespasses and sin. He needs to be resurrected, that we are totally incapable of doing. So the practical result is if you are a Pelagian, all you need is a teacher. If you are a semi-Pelagian, all you need is a little help of a physician. If you are an Augustinian, as I am, and most all of the historic Orthodox Church has been, then you will realize that man needs to be resurrected from the dead, and that salvation furthermore is entirely of grace. Semi-Pelagianism is a modification of the doctrinal teaching of Pelagius. It is a synergistic, rather than a monogistic approach to redemption. It basically teaches that man and God are cooperating together in order to accomplish redemption. Welcome everyone to the BCV channel. I am your host, Pastor Seco Woods. Please do the following. Please like, subscribe, share, hit the notification bell at the bottom of this video. That way whenever I go live, post any content. If you wanted to first to view it, please also, if you'd like to support this ministry, financially you can do so. We definitely appreciate that for those who have been doing it. Appreciate your support, your tangible gifts of love. You can do so by clicking any of the donation links below at the bottom of this video. We definitely appreciate that. Also, BCV merchandise, you can also click the link below as well. Moderators, please, if you don't mind, you can periodically put up the donation links and information for those who may be interested in doing so as well. As you heard in the beginning portions of this montage of videos, of course, I'm actually doing a recap of the debate that I had last week with Brother Corey Minor regarding wrong on salvation. That was the title of the debate. You can find it on my channel. You can find it on Brother Corey's channel. We basically did a simulcast. Unfortunately, the stream had interrupted close to near the second, around the second hour of our time together. So the full video in its entirety is also located on my channel, BCV channel as well. This is a recap. I wanted to share my thoughts regarding the discussion that we had there with some things that I wanted to unpack a little bit more. This is not an attack. This is not an attack. This is not a jab against my brother Corey. I love him with the love of the Lord. We just differ on this issue. I believe this issue is important. And after just mulling over and thinking through some things and actually watching the replay of the video and hearing what my brother said regarding the spiritual condition of man, I'm convinced. I just believe that based on his own testimony, not mine, that he embraces the semi-Pelagian view. I know that he detests labels, but there's no other way I can identify that. It is a form of semi-Pelagianism if not semi-Pelagianism altogether. And the reason why I shared that segment and that portion of Brother Corey's response in his statement is because I wanted you to hear from out of his own mouth, from his own words, the position that he holds. He believes that man is not spiritually dead in the sense that he is dead in trespasses and sins, that he is unable or unable to come to Christ on his own. He believes that man can come to God, but they won't. Those were his exact words. What the Bible says differently, man can't come to Christ on their own and they won't come to Christ on their own until or unless God sovereignly draws them, changes their heart and gives them the ability to do so. That is scripture. And so what I want to do is I want to unpack some more of these statements, unpack some more of what we had discussed a little bit. I probably won't be taking any cam-ups today. Maybe in the future, I probably will. And so I want to just let people know that upfront, but if you have questions and if you have any commentators you would like to add, first and foremost, thank you again for those who have been sharing their thoughts about the last week's debate, I do appreciate that. Both good and bad, both positive and negative and that's fine, thank you nonetheless. But if you would like to leave a comment, if you'd like to reach out to me with any questions, you can do that. I wanted to also make a public shout out, if this brother is watching this live, I want to reach out to him again and let him know, brother AS had reached out to me on another live and you had sent an email, but I was not able to pull that email from spam. For some reason, I was able to see it but when I got ready to retrieve it and to get your information and to respond back, I could not find the email. So brother AS, I believe that was your initials. If you're watching this, please email me back, give me your information, your contact number and I will do my best to reach back out to you and correspond to you as well. So hopefully you're watching this so hopefully you will watch this in the near future after this string. Lily, thank you so much sister for the super chat. Brother Provers, thank you so much for the super chat. I do appreciate that, thank you. All right, so let's get started. Again, I just wanted to put this information out. I don't want it to be anywhere where people thinking it's a battle between two brothers. I know that brother Corey had shared his thoughts and he has been doing subsequent videos as a result of the live debate that we had. And of course he has his position and I have mine and of course you all have yours. And as Christians we're to be brands we're to test all things and hold fast that which is true. And this live is no different as any other live stream should be. So what I want to do is I want to play a clip so I'm going to give responses to it. Hope you all have packed the lunch. I'm going to give commentary, I'm going to try my best to try my best to keep it under two hours. But so I'm just going to give the information, let you the viewer be the judge of it and then we'll keep it going. But for the sake of review, let's play brother Corey's statement regarding what he believes and his definition of what spiritual death means. But there was another death that also occurred as well and Breonna says it correctly, this spiritual death. What do you all think God meant when he said that they died? And if we believe Breonna that they died spiritually I believe so also how do we take this spiritual death to be I take it as a separation, as the fact that they are now separated spiritually from God. Because notice what's going to be cut off from them is the one thing that's giving them life. So there's a spiritual separation also now. What is it actually that's going on with the trees and with the things they were eating? We don't know. The Bible didn't give us a lot of information. There's people that have given this speculation with the tree of life and so forth. We really don't know. But we all would agree that being dead spiritually means that you are separated from God. A wall of separation was put up because of sin. And the desire to want to do wrong is going to be even more prevalent. It was even there in the garden, but they could have just by obeying and resisting the devil. They could have afforded that, but now that same desire has been passed on through all of us. Nothing physiologically changed in mankind. Nothing. Nothing changed in mankind. Nothing morally changed in mankind. But now there's some sort of separation between them and God as well as the garden, which by the way, they no longer have access to. Why am I bringing this up? Because in the debate that I had, the question was brought up about us being dead. That while we were dead in our trespasses and sins, while I take it that mean we were unable to do anything, that we were just dead separately. Just like the prodigal son where he says that he was dead, now he is alive. And the only difference is he was separated from his father. Now he's alive by being back with the father. But that's what I equate as dead. Why? I do not think that God is standing there asking us to do something knowing for what we can't do it. I don't think he's saying, obey me, worship me, serve me, knowing we can't. I don't think that God is being a big bully. I'm saying this way. You ever seen someone a big kid holding up a ball over a little kid and telling him to jump, knowing for what little kid can't jump that high? I don't think God is telling us to do something knowing for what we can't. I believe that he wants us to do it. I believe that we can do it. I just believe that we will not do it. Huh? What? Now again, those were brother Corey's words. He has fully given his position regarding the spiritual condition of man. Brother Corey said that he does not believe that God will tell us to do something knowing that we don't have the ability to do it. Well, you mean like what? Giving us the 10 commandments? You mean like commanding us to repent? You mean those things, brother? Because those are exactly what God has done. And he did it for a reason. And we're going to find out what those reasons were. So let's look at the text. Matthew chapter 19, we're going to start at verse, I'm sorry, it's black out there quick. Matthew chapter 19 verse 16, we'll go to verse 16. Of Matthew chapter 19, Matthew 19 verse 16. The text reads this. And someone came to him saying, teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life? And he said to him, why are you asking me about what is good? There is only one who is good. But if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments. Verse 18, then he said, that is the rich young ruler. Then he said, which ones? And Jesus said, you shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness. Honor your father and mother and you shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to him, all these things I have kept. What am I still lacking? Verse 21, Jesus said to him, if you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor. And you will have treasure in heaven and come, follow me. But the young man heard this statement. But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property. And Jesus said to his disciples, truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Again, I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, then who can be saved? And looking at them, Jesus said to them, with people, this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible. Mark chapter one, verse 15, God says it's impossible for man to enter into the kingdom of God on his own. It's impossible. Verse 15 of Mark one, the time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe the gospel. God does tell man to do things that he's unable to do. And it is for a reason, he tells them to repent. He gives them the 10 commandments. He tells us to be holy, would it be like our Father, our heavenly Father, would it be perfect? Jesus says, just as our heavenly Father is perfect. Can we do that on our own? No, we cannot, but let's continue. Galatians chapter three, verse 24, here's the reason why God is perfect. Here's the reason why God gives us these quote unquote impossible commands for a reason. Galatians chapter three, verse 24, therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ so that we may be justified by faith. The law, the moral law of God was given to us to become a tutor and instructor to lead us to Christ, not run us away, but to lead us to Christ. So how can I do this? Lord, it's impossible. I know that's why you need to come to me. That's why you need to accept my son. John chapter six, in verse 44, no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day. Notice Jesus gives a universal negative. No one can, not just will, no one can. They are unable, they have the inability, they're not able to come to Christ unless the Father who sent him draws them. If he doesn't draw, they will not come. If he doesn't draw, they cannot come. And interesting, this word, Hikuo, it means to draw or drag by force. And I know that's a hard term for some of us to accept, but listen to me. If you were in a fire and you couldn't get out in a fireman or a rescuer, what to drag you out by force? I guarantee you, you wouldn't be mad. Even if you got scraped and bruised a little bit, had some abrasions and a little bit of cuts on you, getting out of that glass window because your life is spared. So interestingly, Jesus says, no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And it's the same word that is used when he has, when Jesus and the disciples go fishing and they draw and they pull the net of fish into the boat. It's the same word that they're pulling, they're dragging, they're lifting it up by force. But notice, Jesus says they can't come. And now that they cannot come, they won't come. John chapter five, verse 40. And you are unwilling to come to me so that you may have life. And why are they unwilling to come to him? Why they can't come? Anyone who has not been born from above, born by the Spirit of God, been called by God, summoned by God is because Jesus says that they're not his sheep. Verse 26 of John chapter 10. But you do not believe because you are not my sheep. Those who are not God's sheep, Christ's sheep, that have not been born from above, they have not been sealed by the Holy Spirit of God, they can't come, they won't come because they're dead. They refuse to. Psalm 14, verse two and three. The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if there are any who understand who seek after God. And what was God's finding? They have all turned aside. Together they have become corrupt. There is no one who does good, not even one. Not even one. God said there's none of us, none, none. Yeah, and this word, all is all, it's everyone, every single person, yes, because God is looking, he is dealing with the humanity and scope of mankind since the fall. Man is corrupt, man is wicked, man is estranged from God. So when my brother said that God won't tell, he does not believe that God will tell man to do something. The Bible doesn't teach that. God tells man to do the impossible to make them come to God, to be able to do what is impossible to do. This is why Jesus told the disciples, with men it is impossible. It is impossible for them to enter into the kingdom of God on their own. But with God, all things are possible. That's why. And God didn't know he's not a bully. And I know that's not what my brother meant. He was using it as an example, I know. But they cannot come because they are spiritually dead. And they're not, as I was talking to a brother the other day, need to be reawakened. No, they're not taking a nap. They're dead. They're dead. And if you're dead, being awakened ain't gonna do it. You must be resurrected, you must be made alive first before you can ever receive any type of stimulation. Any type of knowledge or understanding of anything. You must be born again. You must be made alive from above. Man's condition is not sick. Man's condition is not sleep. Man's condition is dead. At birth we were all DOA, dead on arrival. Physically moving, but spiritually dead. We are unable, unable to come to God on our own. That is what the Bible says. That is what the Bible teaches. Ephesians chapter two, let's look there. Another text that my brother and I were contesting against. Ephesians two, one through five. Brother Cory does not believe that the word dead means dead. He just means it means separated. Separated, well, so you're conflating spatial departure. You're conflating what the prodigal son, him being dead, separated from his father spatially. But what God says we are in our spiritual condition, we're dead in trespasses and sins, spatially and spiritually we are dead. No serve former sinner, he did not keep all the 10 commandments. He was a coveter. He coveted his money. He hoarded his money. He did not keep all the 10 commandments. No, he did not, sir. Shouldn't have answered that question, but I could not help but answer it. And that's why he left because he could not. Look at the text, it's in the text, sir. The rich and young ruler could not do anything apart from the spirit's work. Thus why the disciple says, if it's hard for this rich man to get in, then who can be saved? Why would Jesus, well, you know what? It's not impossible. All they need to do is drum up enough will. No, no. Jesus said, with man, it is impossible. With man, it's not gonna happen. But with God, all things are possible with him and only with him. Ephesians chapter two, verse one, you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience, among them we too, all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging in the desires of the flesh and of the mind and were by nature, children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, verse four, don't you love that? But God, being rich in mercy because of his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead, not separated, not just separated, no, no, no. Even when we were dead and our transgressions made us alive, notice. You see that there? He made us alive. Eris active indicative, this is what God did. We could not do it. God had to make us alive. God had to resurrect this dead soul and make the life come back to us again. We're dead. We're in sleep. We weren't just separated. He says, even when we were dead, yes, neck cross means dead. And this is why when we had that conversation and we had that debate, I asked Corey to define what he meant by the term dead. Remember that? I asked him. And here's what he said. Most of what you said, I agree with. I don't think that there's a person on the planet that can attribute their salvation to them, to themselves. The issue is, and maybe it has to do a lot with the word dead. When we say dead in our trespasses and sins. Romans six says that we are dead to sin. Does that mean? Made alive and made alive to righteousness. Hold on, hold on. The word dead means, if dead means inability to respond, that's certainly not what the word dead means in Romans six. Couldn't be. The context, but the context Corey determines the passage. You know that, bro. You're saying the context of terms that dead means ability. I'm saying dead means separated. I'm saying that we accept. Does that not take the term in the passage? That's not what it says. I'm asking, does that not context determine the term in the interpretation? It absolutely does. So let's go to the text. Which text? Which one? The one that you cited. You want to go to Ephesians two first. You want to go to John six. We can go to Ephesians two. We can go to Ephesians two. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you formally walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. So that word dead means inability. Are you asking me? Are you making a statement? No, I'm asking you. I'm asking, does the word dead here? It means unable to respond. Why does it mean that? Well, let's look at the definition of it. The word dead is the Greek word for neck cross, which means dead, of course. Let's look at the definition of it. Definition, neck rock, right? I'm putting up on mine as well too. I agree with the definition of it. You have different clauses though, Corey. You have different clauses, right? Okay. You have different clauses. Figuratively, I'm reading from Zodiacis. Figuratively, those dead to Christ and his gospel meaning spiritually dead. Also, metaphorically, in opposition to the life of the gospel, example of persons dead to Christ and his gospel, and thus exposed to punishment, spiritually dead. Oh, and guess what it has in here as a reference, Ephesians chapter two. Okay. But you missed the point you haven't said, you haven't answered the question though. I didn't answer the question. This clearly is a metaphor, right? Of course it is. Does it? In opposition to the gospel. Here's the point though. Wait a second. Wait a second. It's like, oh, dead, but even in your discussion, even in what you just read, it does not say that that person is unable. So Corey, then you're giving man more credit than what? No, no. You're giving the word dead more credit than it. How are you adding more to the word dead? Okay, so let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that there are some people who choose to be saved and some who don't? Again. Just just to know. Do you believe that there are some people who deserve to be saved and those who don't? Seiko, I'll say it again. There are a bunch of people who have chose or who have placed their faith momentarily in Christ, but it was not the same as what the Bible describes. Yeah, and it wasn't genuine faith then, bro. It's not genuine faith. Seiko, what is it? You got first job, chapter two, verse nine. Hold on. Wait a second. Maybe you're missing on my point. I never said that people who choose momentarily are saved. That's not what I'm saying. I never called that genuine faith. I never said that. That's what I'm talking about, Corey. I'm talking about saving faith. I'm talking about if a person is born again, they won't fall away. They won't turn away. Okay, wait a second. To be in a state of continual believing, that requires, according to John 3, according to Jesus, that requires a person's heart to be regenerated. I agree with that. That's not my point. Again, ultimately, everybody that is saved. Everybody that is saved. Everybody who is saved is saved as a result of the work of the spirit in them. That does not mean that a person could not make a professional faith, but it not be genuine. They really believe that Jesus died for them and they chose to place a temporary faith, but then walked away. Again, according to the parable of the sowers, these are people. These are people. These are people, according to Jesus, who believed and Jesus literally uses the word believe. I'm not disagreeing with you on that, Corey. Now, get out of the four soils, Corey, which one was genuine? Out of the four soils. We don't have to argue that. We don't have to argue. Seiko, this is the point, because I think sometimes you guys get into the point where I'm rushing to it. I never said that the belief that anybody can have saving faith apart from a generation. I never said that. I never said that. I said that anybody can believe but only those with saving faith, that's a part of regeneration. I've done multiple videos and discussions on how a person is regenerated, John 3 Ezekiel, Jeremiah and so forth, Hosea. I've covered this at nauseam. I'm not saying that saving faith, for us especially, happens apart from the Holy Spirit. That's not what I've ever, I've never said that. I said that mankind has the ability to believe just simply, will not, especially the kind of belief that we're talking about. The belief that's temporal, the belief that's momentary, the belief that's mental ascension, man can do that. How do we know if that same kind of faith, that mental ascension, that faith that the person who's not saved versus the person who truly is saved, how do we know the difference? Well, the difference is they're enduring, they're continual believing. The person who has that mental ascent like Jesus talked about, they believed. Or like Simon the Sorcerer, who believed. Or Nineveh, who believed. Or the Jews in Ezekiel, I'm sorry, in Exodus believed. That kind of faith preceded heart regeneration of the Spirit. It did. We don't have a passage saying that somebody was regenerated by the Holy Spirit prior to John. We don't have that, or prior to the cross. We don't have any Old Testament saying where it's told. Now, were they, if it is, if they were, the Bible doesn't say so. And the Bible doesn't say that they could not believe. The Bible says that their faith was different though. It's clear their faith was different. Their faith needed the belief in these other offerings and sacrifices. Ours is on the one that Christ gave. I say it ultimately, it shakes out the same way. If a person can believe or is unable to believe. It works out the same way because everybody can, but nobody will. That's where God steps in and then doesn't work in a person's heart. Do you hear this? I mean, it's a lot. It really sounds like word salad, but I'm just letting my brother say what he's actually trying to say because what he's actually saying is what he has already said before. That he believes that man has the ability to believe in Christ. He has the ability. The Bible does not say that. The Bible does not give us a temporal belief in Christ. Either we believe or we don't. And that does pass over time, whether or not it is genuine, but anyone who genuinely believes will stay believing, but there is no one who genuinely believes and then they stop believing because now that puts eternal security and also the power of God on display. In a negative sense. In a negative sense. So, our brother Corey clearly said that he believes that man has the ability to believe in Christ, but they won't. Is that what the scripture says? Because actually, actually, Corey makes it clear what his struggle is regarding man's inability. My only issue is that, and it may very well be that man is unable to respond. I told you, and that's the whole point. That's his whole issue. He said his whole issue is man's inability to respond. So that means deep down inside, he has a hard time accepting the fact that man does not have the capability, the power to believe on their own unless or until God makes them alive to believe. And see, that's where the confusion comes because the Bible says, apart from Christ, we can do nothing and that includes believing. That includes believing. We can't get around that. And even though my brother has a hard time accepting that, even though my brother has a hard time taking that truth in for himself, it does not negate the fact of man's spiritual condition. That man is dead, he's dead and trespasses in sins. There is nothing that man can do to save himself. Why? Because he is dead. Y'all want to see a dead body? Yeah, I feel like a dog died. He's straight. That's how they smell it for a while. I wonder why I take the leave of song or pick a look. Eh, don't you know this is a dead body? Yeah, I know that shit. Yeah. And although we know man is dead, do we really want to believe that he's dead or do we make excuses for man's condition? Because at the end of the day, it does not matter how you try to nice up a dead person, how you try to make the dead man actually not appear dead. Man is dead. You can try to coddle him, you can try to make his condition seem less dead than what it really is. No, he is dead. And there's nothing you can do to help him. Only God can help him. You're going down, let's go. Come on, bro. We gotta go, man. I can't leave. You ain't gotta leave her, bro. Cause she's already gone. Yeah. You can stay with them all you want. You can try to talk to them. You can try to reason with them all you want until or unless God makes that person alive, they will not come. Let's go, let's go. Come on, man. We can't leave him like this. It's not right, all right. It's not right. Hey, she read that motherfucker dead. He did. Yeah, let's go. Yeah. No matter the situation. Some people realize it, but there are some of us even in the body of Christ, we don't accept it. And we can listen. We can try to pour out a little liquor for our dead homies, libations, all of that stuff. You can even serenade them. It won't matter. They're not coming back. And for some of us, hey, you can call their name, you can scream, you can holler, you can snob, you can do all that. You can keep telling them to come on, come on back, come on back. Please don't leave me, don't leave me, don't leave me. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. They're dead. Yeah. That's the reality. They can walk the aisle. They can pray to prayer. You can touch and agree that they become undead until or unless God saves the human soul. Until or unless he calls man out of that dead state, they will not come. Yes, walking around, breath in their lungs, but they're DOA. They're DOA because that is exactly what God says. He does not say that they're just separated. Man is dead in trespasses and sins until God resurrects that dead soul. I believe that man apart from the saving grace and work and power of God cannot save himself. Even on his best day, he cannot. Even if he wanted to, he could not because his nature has been, his nature has been tainted with sin. It has been through and through with sin. It does not mean he's going to do everything that he could do, but it does mean that since Adam failed in the Garden of Genesis 3, that Adam being our federal head, Romans 512, we all sin because we were in Adam. And until or unless God invades the human soul. And until or unless God makes man alive to respond to divine stimuli, then he would never respond because he is dead. If we're going to say what man is and if we look at the autopsy of man spiritually speaking, but God uses in his word, he gives us physical examples on how man is apart from the saving grace of God. He's dead in trespasses and sins. He's hostile to the things of God. He's a hater of God. He's a slave to sin and foreign to righteousness. He cannot do anything good, not even when I'm talking about from a salvific standpoint. Yes, a sinner can walk a person across the street, but that is not going to pass when it comes time to stand before a thrice holy God and give an account for the deeds that they have done in his body. That has nothing to do with God choosing to save him because of any good thing that he may have done humanly speaking. It has everything to do with what did he do with his son? And if he rejects, if he rejects the free gift of salvation is because his nature has not been changed. And if his nature has not been changed, then his will has not been changed because the will is in concert with what man's nature is and man's nature is corrupt. Man's nature is foreign to the things of God. And until again, or unless God saves that soul, man will only do what's in his nature and that is sin. I don't know if that is something that all of you all agree with, but I'm just giving you what the Word of God says. And in fact, that is exactly what the Word of God says. If we're not careful, if we're not careful, even those of us who are born again and those of us who are fellow believers and you may hold to Arminianism or Doctrines of Grace, i.e. Calvinism, this is again, this is not me attacking my brother. This is me responding to some of the things that we had discussed and recapping on some discussions and topics that we had because I wanted to flesh this out a little bit more because I do believe that there is, there are a lot of people that hold to semi-Pelagianism really thinking that they don't, but actually they do. Again, for my brother to say that he believes that man can, when God says that he can't, that says what God's Word is, is not true. And I know my brother's not saying that God is a liar, but we make God to be a liar when God says, you and I can do nothing apart from him, we can do nothing and that nothing also includes belief. If we do not agree that man's spiritual condition is not just separated, a spiritual separation, but also that we are spiritually dead unable to come to him, John 644, then what do we do? Because that's exactly what the Word of God says. And what other great example do we have in scripture than John? The story of Lazarus. John chapter 11, verse 25, Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live even if he dies. Verse 26, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this? Notice what Jesus is asking these women. Is that I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will never die even if he lives. And everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Those who die, he says will live. Those who live will never die. He covers both bases. Verse 38, we know the story, but we gotta go there. Verse 38, Jesus again being deeply moved within came to the tomb. Now it was a cave and a stone was lying against it. Jesus said, did he say remove the stone to Lazarus? He could have. I'm gonna wait on Lazarus to remove the stone because he's not really dead. He has the power to remove that stone. No, Jesus said, remove the stone. Martha, the sister of the deceased said to him, Lord, by this time there will be a stench for he has been dead four days. And we all know the story because customarily people believe that if they arose or they resurrected on the third day pretty much that that was not an actual death. Jesus waited four days to kill the swoon theory and any other humanistic theory that would try to concoct and deny the power of God resurrecting the dead. Verse 40 says this. Jesus said to her, did I not say to you that if you believe you will see the glory of God? So they remove the stone, not Lazarus, they did. Lazarus didn't have the power to do that. Then Jesus raised his eyes and said, Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but because of the people standing around, I said it so that they may believe that you sent me. When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice. Lazarus, come forth. What did the Lazarus say? I ain't coming out of there. Did Lazarus say, no, I'm gonna exercise my free will and come out when I'm ready? No, the text says verse 44. The man who had died, that is Lazarus, had come forth bound hand and foot with wrappings and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, notice Lazarus couldn't even untie and unbind himself. He had to be unbound. The text says verse 44, unbind him and let him go. That's what Jesus did to us. We are Lazarus and oh, by the way, oh, by the way, this is particular redemption here as well. Jesus didn't just say, come forth. He called Lazarus by name. He called his name specifically, personally and he came. He came at the sound of the Resurrector himself. He came forth and you and I, when God calls our name, we will come. We're going to come. It won't be no kicking and screaming. No, no, no, no. We will come because God said to come. He didn't make a pluralistic come forth. Could have, could have. We know what would have happened with that, right? But no, he called Lazarus. There were other people that were dead, but he specifically called Lazarus to come forth. But unfortunately, but unfortunately, I know that due to the pride of man's ability, this is a hard thing. This is hard for some people to accept, even our brother Corey. My only issue is that, and it may very well be that man is unable to respond. So I just wanted to cover that part, but also in our discussion, we were discussing about Old Testament saints. Old Testament saints were Old Testament saints regenerated. We had a pretty lengthy discussion regarding that. And I don't believe that we cleared up what we held to, well, no, I don't believe we agreed rather on what we clearly believe the Bible teaches, but I want to unpack that a little bit more. Is there a such passage in the Old Testament that tells me that we were, or anyone, not we, but they were regenerated? Is there a such passage in the Old Testament where anyone who believed, they believed as a result of being regenerated first? We don't have that. I believe we do have that. I believe we do have that. I do believe that we have record of Old Testament saints being regenerated. In fact, as I was preparing to do this live, the Holy Spirit gave me a verse description that I have not heard many people, and I'm not saying that they haven't. I just have not heard it. There's a text that I wanna use as my springboard to address why I believe that Old Testament saints were regenerated without quote unquote the actual word being used. Simply offer one verse description then I'll unpack some more. Second Peter chapter one verse 20 and 21. Peter writes this, but know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation. Verse 21, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. Do y'all see that? That's the doctrine of inspiration. That's the doctrine of inspiration. That's the doctrine of inspiration. That's the doctrine of inspiration. That's the doctrine of inspiration, ladies and gentlemen. What do we do with that? Holy men, the Bible said, wrote and spoke from God. Holy men spoke from God. I mean, there's no other way of making that clearer than what it is. Second Peter chapter one verse 21, verse 20 and 21 rather, it says, holy men spoke from God. Oh, I'm not done, Cory. I'm not done. How do you define the doctrine of inspiration? That's the question. If God says holy men spoke from God, was Moses, was Moses holy? Was Moses regenerated? Was Moses, was Daniel? Were the prophets? Were they holy men? Did they speak for God? So let's go further. Romans chapter four. Romans chapter four. What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, according to the flesh has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about. But not before God. For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. So how does a person believe and yet they're not born again and they're not being credited as righteousness? Because in order for a person to believe, they must be born again. They must be regenerated. They believed what God said by faith. How do we know this? Verse four. Now to one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. I guess faith doesn't believe, doesn't mean faith. And righteousness does not mean righteousness, I guess. Verse six. Just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man whom God credits righteousness apart from works. Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man who sinned the Lord would not take into account. Is this blessing then on the circumcised or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it credited? While he was circumcised or uncircumcised? Now while circumcised, but while uncircumcised, and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of righteousness. I guess righteousness doesn't mean righteousness. He received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised. Why? So that he might be the father of all who believe. He didn't say all in the world, did he? Did he say every single person? He said, no, no, no. That he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised that righteousness might be credited to them. And the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but also who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham, which he had while uncircumcised. For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified. For the law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there is no violation. For this reason, it is by faith in accordance that it may be in accordance, it was by faith in order that it may be in accordance with grace so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. As it is written, a father of many nations have I made you and the presence of him, he believed, even God who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. That has nothing to do with word of faith, ladies and gentlemen. He's talking about God that calls those things that be not as though they were. In hope against hope, he believed so that he might become a father of many nations according to that which had been spoken. So shall your descendants be. When I'll be coming week in faith, he contemplated his own body now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old and the deadness of Sarah's womb. Yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief, but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God and being fully assured that what God had promised, he was able to perform. Therefore, it was also credited to him as righteousness. Now, not for his sake only was it credited that it was credited to him, but for our sake also to whom it will be credited as those who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He who was delivered over because of our transgressions and was raised because of our justification. Now, I know Brother Corwin, you had cited and said that Psalm 51 verse 10 is not speaking about regeneration. Okay, no problem, but I'm gonna cite it nonetheless because David says, created me a clean heart of God and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Now, we do understand and know that the spirit did not come upon or come in and dwell Old Testament saints during that time, because we know he says, he in verse 11, do not take your Holy Spirit from me. We got that. However, and I say a big however, we were looking at what Christ did. They were looking at what Christ was going to do by faith. And nonetheless, on both sides of the Old Testament and New Testament, it is by faith one believes. And how does one believe unless they had been made alive or born from above or have been given the ability to believe? Whether we want to say it or not, Old Testament saints were saints by faith, just like you and I are saints by faith. The sign of the circumcision is a picture of what God did with the heart. He removed the heart of stone and made it a heart of flesh. That's what he did. Why would David ask for a clean heart if he did not know what a clean heart means? He says, created me a clean heart of God and renew a steadfast spirit within me. John chapter three, verse one through 10. And there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him. Jesus answered and said to him, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Unless, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Verse four, verse four, Nicodemus said to him, how can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he? Jesus answered, truly, truly, I say unto you, unless one is born of the water, of the water rather than the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. And that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, you must be born again. Verse eight, the wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from or where and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the spirit. Nicodemus said to him, how can these things be? Jesus answered and said to him, verse 10, are you a teacher of Israel? And do not understand these things? Why would Jesus say that to Nicodemus? If the regeneration and rebirth of the spirit of God is something that Nicodemus should have known, why was he unaware of this? And why did Jesus tried and rebuked this man and check him answer because he should have known what the prophets had spoke. He should have read Ezekiel. He should have understood what the prophets had said about the heart being changed, giving a new heart. He should have known that. That is why Jesus is speaking this way. And oh, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, Paul refers to Abraham and Romans four, right? But there's another text we need to read that we're missing. Hebrews chapter 11, bear with me, ladies and gentlemen. Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it, the men of old gained approval. By faith, we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible by faith, able, offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained a testimony that he was righteous. I guess my question and my point is, is how does God say I'm righteous if I'm not regenerated? Is it a possibility that you can only be righteous by being made alive even in the old covenant, even under the Old Testament? Is that a possibility? I don't see God calling anybody righteous. That's not righteous. Whose heart has not been changed. I just don't see that. He says, by faith, Abraham offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained a testimony that he was righteous. God testifying about his gifts and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks by faith. Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death and he was not found because God took him up, for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up, he was pleasing to God. And why do I say Abraham's heart was regenerated because God said he was righteous? That's why. That's why, bro. That's why I say it. That's why I say it. The Bible, I mean, Jesus says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, Corey, right? Isn't that what the Bible says? Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God? That was just spirit of spirit. Why are they called saints if they're not born again, if they're not made alive? Somehow, verse six, and without faith it is impossible to please him, for he who comes to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him. By faith, verse seven, by faith, Noah being warned by God about things not yet seen in reverence, prepared an ark for the salvation of his household by which he have condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness, which is according to faith. Nah, bro, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not Ishajeet in the text. You telling, you telling your people that man can believe apart from the saving work of God is Ishajeet in the text. Well, let me finish. By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance and he went out not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise and as in a foreign land dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise. Well, he was looking for the city which has foundations whose architect and builder is God. By faith, even Sarah received, excuse me, by faith even Sarah herself received the ability to conceive even beyond the proper time of life since she considered him faithful who had promised. Therefore, there was born even of one man and him as good as dead at that as many descendants as the stars of heaven and number and innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore. All these died in faith. All these died in faith without receiving the promises and having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own and indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they would have had opportunity to return. But as it is, they desire a better country that is a heavenly one, a heavenly one. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God for he has prepared a city for them. By faith Abraham when he was tested offered up Isaac and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son. It was he to whom it was said and Isaac your descendant shall be called. He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead from which he also received him back as a type. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau even regarding things to come. By faith Jacob as he was dying blessed each of the sons of Joseph and worship leaning on the top of his staff. By faith Joseph when he was dying made mention of the exodus of his sons of Israel and gave orders concerning his bones. By faith Moses, here you go sis. By faith Moses when he was born was hidden for three months by his parents because they saw he was a beautiful child and they were not afraid of the king's edict. By faith Moses when he had grown up refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter choosing rather to endure ill treatment with the people of God them to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin considering the reproach of Christ greater riches. Wait a minute. So he saw Christ before Christ came to this earth with the text say. Hebrews 1126 considering the reproach of Christ's greater riches than the treasures of Egypt for he was looking to the reward. By faith he left Egypt not fearing the wrath of the king for he endured the great riches of the kingdom. He endured as seeing him who is unseen. By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch him. Touch them excuse me. By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land and the Egyptians when they attempted it were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. By faith Rahab the Harlem, Moabite. That's Gentile. Did not perish along with those who were disobedient after she had welcomed the spies in peace. And what more shall I say for time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah of David and Samuel and the prophets who by faith conquered kingdoms perform acts of righteousness, obtain promises, shut the mouths of lions, quench the power of fire, escape the edge of the sword. From weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection. Here's the flip side. And others were tortured, not accepting their release so that they might obtain a better resurrection. And others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sown in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword, they went about in sheepskins and goat skins being destitute, afflicted, ill treated, men of whom the world was not worthy, wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. All of these having gained approval through their faith did not receive what was promised. Why? Verse 40, because God had provided something better for us so that apart from us, they would not be made perfect. Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to you, Romans chapter four, like I mentioned earlier, Paul referencing Abraham, that was in the Old Testament. The Rite of Hebrews, and we call the Hall of Faith, references Old Testament saints. That's in the Old Testament. David, Psalm 51, that's in the Old Testament. And Nicodemus, who we call Nic at night, and John three, that's still Old Testament even though it's a New Testament book, it was in the Old Testament, under the law, all of them under the law, under the Old Covenant. And the Bible says that their faith was credited to them as righteousness. Here's my question. How do you get saving faith? Who gives it to you? I'll wait. Who gives it to you? Does it come from God? Why are they called saints? So it can be later called aintes? I'm just asking. Here's my question, Corey, million dollar question, sir. You said yes, but not one of those passages state that they were given a new heart. Here's my question, Corey. Why would they call righteous? Why would they call saints? And if we're saying, if you're looking for, if you're looking for a specific word, regeneration, then we owe Marcus Rogers an apology because Trinity ain't in the Bible. Hypostatic union ain't in the Bible. Omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence is not in the Bible. It's not in the Bible. But we hold to these concepts with our very life. So if we're gonna give, if we're gonna give Marcus Rogers the business because he's denying the Trinity because he says the word Trinity ain't in the Bible. He says that and we call him a false teacher for denying a core tenant of the Christian faith. What do we say to people then who believe or take or teach that you have the ability apart from the spirit's work to come to God because you don't believe that God would tell you to do something just to tell you to do it. And I just gave you several texts to show you that God tells men to be holy. He tells men to repent. He tells men to turn from their wicked ways. He tells them to do that and he appeals. And he tells Israel, why would you die? Turn to me and live. It's like God is giving Israel the cheat codes. He tells them, number one, like I said in Galatians 3, 24, the law became our schoolmaster, our tutor to lead us to Christ. God knows that we cannot do this on our own. We have to have him do it or it would never be done. The disciples were, you wanna say that one of the disciples were generated, all except Judas, when did it become saved? So God just basically called these people his sheep. He just calls them his sheep without them being his sheep. I know Acts two, they were filled with the Holy Spirit and they spoke in tongues. They were filled. That's what the text says. What does it say that they were in dwelt? Does Luke record in Acts two that they were in dwelt with the Spirit or that they were filled with the Spirit? I'll let you answer that question on your next live. Let me read this commentary if y'all don't mind. Because my whole point is I want you to understand that all of what I read to you all was under the old covenant. No, no, no, Judas is not in heaven. Matter of fact, Jesus says that he was called the son of perdition. Excuse me, read John 17. Judas is not written, his name is not written in the book of life. No, I agree, I agree, Nealyn. He had to be regenerated. We don't, I would say the concept is there. We don't see it especially said, but there's a lot of things we don't see explicitly said but we see the concepts, we see the teachings throughout scriptures. Again, we hold the terms because terms give us a better understanding of what a certain doctrine or teaching may state. I mean, why call them Old Testament saints if they're not saints? Just saying. And again, my question is, what do we do with 2 Peter 1, 20 to 21? The Bible says, holy men spoke from God, period. That's the doctrine of inspiration. The Holy Spirit of God gave these men the ability to speak and to say what they'll say of the Lord. That's what the word of God says. I'm not gonna give man any more credit than what God gives him in their salvation and that's nothing. Now you guys can give God, you guys can give God the back seat in your salvation. I'd rather give him all the glory because apart from him, I can't do anything. I couldn't say myself, couldn't say myself at all. Yes, Deborah is there from Judges. Yes, she's there. There's no reason for me to say that she's not. But let me continue on an hour and 20 minutes into the live. But I wanna read another passage here. Actually, a commentary. Matthew Henry says this, the objection which Nicodemus still made, how can these things be? Christ's explication of the doctrine of the necessity of regeneration. It should seem made it never to clear to him. The corruption of nature, which makes it necessary and the way of the spirit, which makes it practical, are as much mysteries to him as the thing itself, though he had in general own Christ, a divine teacher, yet he was unwilling to receive his teachings when they did not agree with the notions he had imbibed. Thus many profess to admit the doctrine of Christ in general and yet will neither believe the truths of Christianity nor submit to the laws of it further than they please. Christ should be their teacher, provided they may choose the lesson. Now here, Nicodemus owns himself ignorant of Christ's meaning. After all, how can these things be? There are things I do not understand. My capacity would not reach them. Thus the things of the spirit of God are foolishness to the natural man. He's not only estranged from them and therefore they are dark to him but prejudiced against them and therefore they are foolishness to him. Because this doctrine was unintelligible to him, so he was pleased to make of it, he questions the truth of it as if because it was a paradox to him, it was a chimera in itself. Many have such an opinion of their own capacity as to think that they cannot be proved which they cannot believe. By wisdom, they knew not Christ. The reproof which Christ gave him for his dullness and ignorance, although a master in Israel, a didascolasa teacher, a tutor, one who sits in Moses' chair and yet not only unacquainted with the doctrine of regeneration but incapable of understanding it, this word is a reproof to those who undertake to teach others and yet are ignorant and unskillful in the word of righteousness themselves, to those that spend their time in learning and teaching notions and ceremonies and religion, niceties and criticisms in the scripture and neglect that which is practical and tends to reform the heart and life. Two emphatic words and the reproof are very emphatic. Two words right in the reproof are very emphatic. First, the place where his lot was cast in Israel where there was such great plenty of the means of knowledge where divine revelation was. He might have learned this out of the Old Testament. Secondly, the things he was thus ignorant in, these things, these necessary things, they're great things, these divine things had he never read. Psalm 50 verse five, verse 10, gather my golly ones to me, those who have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Ezekiel 1831 cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit for why will you die? Oh, house of Israel, 3625 then I will sprinkle clean water on you and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Yes, it's all future. And Jesus says Nicodemus should have known that. That's the point. That is the point. But another thing we had discussed is well, Corey and I, we had debated and disagreed on what's limited atonement or particular redemption or definite atonement. Did Christ die for a particular group, a definite group of people from all tribes, tongues, peoples and nations or did he die for every single person? I hold to the latter. I mean, I hold to the farmer, excuse me, instead of the latter. I hold to the fact that God sent Christ to die and to redeem a people from all tribes, tongues, peoples and nations. He chose and his election secured the salvation of those who were repented and believed and he gave his life, he said for the sheep, not for everyone in the world. Tough to say it, but that's what the Bible teaches. So one of the verses that we were reading from was 2 Corinthians chapter five, I believe. 2 Corinthians five, verse 14 and 15 and I'm gonna put it up on the screen for you all to see it as well too. 2 Corinthians chapter five and verse 15, let's go here. For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this that one died for all, therefore all died and he died for all so that they who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who died and rose again on their behalf. Brother Corey and I differ on the word all. He believes that Christ died for every single person, not just for the Jews. And we also cited 1 John 2 too. I believe according to the context and text when John the apostle was talking to Jewish believers in his letter, he was saying that Christ is not only the perpetuation for ours only, Jewish believers but all, all who believe, all who believe, the whole world who believes, not every single person. Because again, if Christ died for everyone then no one goes to hell because Christ's death secured the payment that was exacted of him by God. And if Christ does not intercede and pray for everyone, John 17.9, then why are we saying that Christ died for everyone? He says in John 17.9, I do not pray for the world but for those whom you gave me, for they are yours and they are mine. That's what Jesus said, I don't pray for the world. So if he doesn't pray for the world, why are we saying that he died for the world, for every single person in the world? Again, the word all is where the contention comes between my brother and I, and it's all love, it's no beef. That Christ died on Calvary's cross is fact. This one commentator writes that he died for all is gospel but how do we explain the two terms for and all? First, let's take the preposition for the Greek word hyper four is hyper. It occurs in John 11.50 where the high priest Caiaphas suggests to the Sanhedrin that he would rather see one man die for the people than to see the whole nation perish. The preposition hyper with reference to Christ's death means substitution as for example, in the words of the institution of the Lord's Supper. This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many. Notice not every single person which is poured out for many. Christ gave his body for his followers and see, I'm sorry, he suffered and died for sinners and he laid down his life for his own. And the statement Christ died for our sins, the term hyper conveys the meaning that Jesus is both our representative and substitute. Christ represents us by pleading our case before the father and he is our substitute by taking our place and being the bearer of our sins. Similarly, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. When the preposition hyper occurs in the context of Christ's death, it signifies substitution. Hence, the fact that Christ lifted the curse from humanity through his death is indeed summary of the gospel. Next, the adjective all occurs twice in this verse and once in verse 15. Does Paul have in mind that Christ died for every human being? Or is he referencing to every believer? We can say that the atoning death of Christ is sufficient for all people but efficient for all three believers. Christ elected Judas as scarier to be one of the 12 disciples, yet he calls him a devil and describes him as the one doomed for destruction or doomed to destruction. Only those who appropriate Christ's death and faith are included in the word all. We must examine therefore the usage of the word first in Paul's epistles and then in verses 14 and 15. Therefore, or thereafter, we can fully appreciate the meaning of this passage. The use of all in Paul's letters does not always mean universality. The apostle refuted the Corinthian motto, all things are permissible in the context of sexual immorality and a food offered to idols. And Paul's statement for all things are yours appears in this discussion about earthly and heavenly wisdom. As always, the context determines the sense of a given expression. Like I mentioned to brother Corey in our debate. If we look closely at the wording of verses 14 and 15, we notice that the expression all is modified by three persons or qualities. The governing love of Christ, the pronoun us and those who live for him. Christ died for all who believe in him for faith is an essential element in the believer's redemption. To all true believers, Christ extends his redeeming love. Although the pronoun us often refers to Paul and his coworkers, here it is broad enough to embrace all Christ's followers. In addition, this text must be explained in harmony with similar passages. Only those who have true faith in Christ Jesus receive eternal life, are reconciled to God and are justified. Those who have died with Christ are recipients of eternal life. They are the ones who are united with him in his death and resurrection and are alive to God. And that's the point. That is the point of 1 John, I mean, excuse me, of 2 Corinthians 5, 14 and 15, and even also 1 John 2 too. Yes, Christ's death could pay for the sins of every single human being, but that is not the purpose for where Christ came and why he died. He said he came for his sheep. He came to redeem a people for his own possession. Matthew 121, thou shalt call his name Jesus for it is he who will save his people from their sins. The good shepherd gives his life for the sheep. He didn't say he'd give his life for every single person in the world. He says for his sheep. All does not always mean all. The context determines what all always means. But I already know some of you used to have issue with that rendering. And I get that. This is not a jab against anybody. I'm just sharing my position in what I believe the Bible teaches. Are you saying that Christ died for his elect and only his elect? Yeah, that's what I believe. I believe that's what the Bible says. We didn't have a chance to go into 2 Peter chapter 3 verse 9, but I wanna share this video with you. And let me just say this before I even, before I present it. It's about nine minutes and some change, give or take. It's so somewhat lengthy if you will. But I want to help you understand this. That this resource that I'm about to present to you, I would encourage you to get it. It is from the Ministry Word Pictures, Mark Keeler. There are a bunch, a plethora of resources that that ministry has on their website. I believe you can go to www.CrossTV.com, www.CrossTV.com and just have fun. I mean, enjoy yourself in the riches of the truth that this ministry presents. I remember having tapes and VHS tapes strung across the shelf of my living room and my wife can attest to that. This was one of the ministries that the Lord used to bless me and my wife when we were searching for a church home and looking to dig deep into the Word of God and it was a blessing. And let me say this as well. Yes, I would affirm what my brother said. He's a great Bible teacher. He loves the Lord. We just disagree on that. I hope he will say the same about me. But we all sit through a glass dimly. We don't all get everything right. The things I may not always get right. But nonetheless, this is just something that me and my brother disagree on. And we as family can disagree. I'm not gonna call this brother a false teacher. I'm not gonna tell people not to support him. I'm not gonna do that. I believe that we differ on this issue soteriologically because this is a position that we hold different stances on. But we have love and respect for each other. We can get it in, but that's still my brother. And hopefully by God's grace, he considers me as that as well too. But without any further ado on the playlist video, this is an exposition of 2 Peter chapter three, verse nine. Get your Bibles. If you haven't marked it, you probably will be marking it after this. Let's go. And about the elect. Some still try to insist that, well, maybe Peter was talking to his dear friends, the elect, but he's telling them that he doesn't desire that any should perish. Any means any. Okay, well, let's check into that as well. Just to be triple sure of our position. Let's begin by doing an actual word study in the original language, using a typical word study Bible software. And let's read 2 Peter 3 9 again. This time in the King James version, as it appears in the Bible word study software, verse nine reads, quote, the Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some men count slackness, but his long suffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, end quote. Now, let me draw your attention to three critical words. First the word some, the Lord is not slack concerning his promise as some men count slackness. When we click on that word some, we discover that it is reference number 5100, or tis in the Greek. And it's no surprise that the definition reads as follows. Definition number one, a certain, a certain one. And definition number two, some, some time or a while. So the verse could just as accurately be translated, the Lord is not slack concerning his promise as certain ones count slackness. But what does surprise many people who have never checked is this. When we click on the word any, the Lord is not willing that any should perish. It turns out to be the very same Greek word. Greek word number 5100, that was translated some only 12 words earlier in the same verse. So again, it would be just as accurate to translate the verse, the Lord is not willing that certain ones should perish. Unless there be any doubting Thomases that are still clinging to the last shreds of hope and mistranslating second Peter 3.9 as speaking of all men everywhere, let's check the word that is translated all in verse nine. The Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. And when we do, here's what we find. It is the Greek word pause, which is defined as follows. Definition number one, individually, each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything. In definition number two, collectively. And this is the key to a sum of all types and are universally accepted and universally respected. And I might add our universally used Greek lexicon does something else that's very interesting. Knowing the problems that can arise when people look at English translations and don't fully consider the subtle but very important differences in the original Greek. The author of the Greek lexicon makes a point of stating outright in the Greek definition itself that we need to understand that all or pause in the Greek does not usually mean all, like we might use the phrase in English. In fact, it rarely does. And so strong, the Greek expert actually does something to help us understand what's going on here. He quotes a series of actual Bible verses and then asks the obvious question. And he says, and I quote, the whole world has gone after him. Did all the world go after Christ? Then went all Judea and were baptized of him in Jordan. Was all Judea or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? And how about you are of God, little children, and the whole world lieth in the wicked one. Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words world and all says strong are used in some seven or eight senses in scripture. And it is very rarely that all means all persons taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed, quote, some of all sorts, in quote, or in other words, some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile only. So I ask you honestly, can there be any doubt who God is talking to and about in 2 Peter chapter three? Of course not. It is his elect. And not one of God's elect will perish, just like scripture says. All that the Father gives me will come to me. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by the power of your name. The name you gave me so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that scripture would be fulfilled. So every last one of them, every last one of God's elect will come to repentance just like second Peter chapter three, verse nine states. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. Man, listen, I don't know about you all, but every time I watch that video, it just does something to me. It takes me back. It really does. Because I remember when I first saw that video, I mean, imagine watching this on VHS where you have to rewind it back. We have to rewind it back. Now they have it on DVD, I believe. Ebony period, I don't know if they have it on some other type of stream or they have it on some type of thumb drive or something like that or even online, but nonetheless, man, listen, if that has piqued your interest, do not go to bed before checking out that website. Again, I'll try to put it in the description below the video here. It is crosstv.com, but that series that you saw, it is called The Sovereignty of God. That's the series. I believe it came when I first bought it back in the early 2000s. I think it was, how many tapes was it there? I think it was about, man, at least 10 to 15 VHS tapes that it had, but you would do yourself a disservice if you don't get it. Yeah, see, my wife, look, I'm telling y'all, this thing takes us back. This thing, we know how that ministry had ministered to us and helped us to have a greater appreciation and understanding. And listen, we were, I mean, spiritually, physically, financially, we were in bad shape. We really were, I mean, from a human standpoint. I mean, we were struggling, man. And I remember just getting that, I invested in that ministry because we didn't have a church home to go to. And the one that we went to, we had to leave because of doctrinal issues. And so this was just, it was water to a thirsty soul. My goal is to hopefully have the CEO and founder of this ministry on my broadcast because I want to publicly give that brother his flowers and to publicly thank him and to bless God and praise God for using a ministry like CrosTV, i.e. Word Pictures was the network that they were airing their content on. But their videos and stuff are still available. You can go to CrosTV.com. I'm not getting paid for this, but I believe in supporting ministries like this because it would change. If you are teachable, it's 16. Okay, see, it's 16. I knew it had to be 15, it was 16 VHS tapes. It was 16 VHS tapes and that was just for the sovereignty of God. I also bought a workman Unashamed or is it called Unashamed Workman? Which one is it? Which one is it, Ebony? I think it's called the Workman Unashamed. I think that's what it's called. Well, it could be Unashamed Workman because it's been so long since I had it. But yes, so again, just go to the website and check it out. Again, you would definitely be blessed. You would definitely be blessed. Dammit, you can testify too, huh? You can testify too, huh? But I'm telling y'all, again, and y'all said, how many of y'all said this was your first time? Let me scroll through the comments before I wrap this up because I had asked the question, how many of you have seen this for the first time? And then I believe Tyra, you said this was your first time. Proverbs, you said it was your first time. Shonda, I believe you said it was your first time. Monica, your first time. Dino, you said it was your first time. Steve, you said you used to get notifications from him? Man, yeah. Again, I'm just telling y'all, this is... Yeah, and if you can't afford to get the videos, that brother Mopup said they have it on YouTube, that particular video. I know there's some people who have also shared it on their channels, but it's definitely... If you can get your own copies, to keep your own copy, you would definitely have a good investment and make a good investment. Yeah, workmen approved by God, that's what it's called. A workmen approved by God, it was that series here and also the sovereignty of God series that nailed it for us. I mean, it really was. So, but again, I know there's some of you that believe and again, think that God owe us that if he doesn't save everybody or gives everybody the opportunity to be saved, then that makes him unfair. I'm just gonna say this, I'm gonna close out the live with this last video. Again, I'm just gonna say this to all of you, thank you for watching. Don't go anywhere, I'm just making my exit right now because this last one here is gonna be it for me. But again, thank you for those who have watched it and those who have been here on this live, we definitely appreciate it. But if you wanna support the ministry, again, you can do that through the donation link information below and also support other ministries as well who are out here doing the work of the Lord. Again, Smart Christian, Dinah Reviews, Cure for the Soul, Sister Christina, she has her channel, there are plenty of others. That Christian fam, Chelsea's Live Line, there are many ministries that are out here that God is using to serve in the ministry to the body of Christ. It's not just one of us and one monkey don't stop no show. So, just wanna encourage those of you to continue to support ministries like that. But again, for those of you who still have issue with this and those of you who think that God is obligated to save or obligated to give everybody the chance to be saved and if he doesn't, that makes him unfair, I'm just gonna close out with this and let this be the mic drop moment. When I was a young college teacher, I had the task of teaching 250 freshmen in a college, introduction to the Old Testament. And on the first day of class, I had to give out the assignments and I had to be very careful about what the requirements were because they'll twist them any way they can to get out from them. And I said, look, we have just a few little term papers here, three to five pages or two to four pages with short little papers. I said, four of them. If you don't turn them in on time, you get an F for the assignment unless you're confined to the infirmary or a death in the immediate family, you had to spell out a lot from them. So does everybody understand? Oh yes, we agree. The first one's due September the 30th. September the 30th, 225 students diligently came forward with their term papers. 25 of the students were standing there shivering and shaking in fear. And they said, oh, Dr. Sproul, we didn't get our papers done. We didn't budget our time. We didn't make the transition from high school to college. Please, give us a chidon, give us an F. Let us have a couple of days extension. I said, okay. I said, I'll let you have it this time but don't let it happen again. Now remember now, next month I want those papers here in time. October 30th came, 200 students came with their term papers. 50 of them don't have their term papers. So where's your term papers? They said, oh, professor. Everybody's term papers were due this week and this week was homecoming and we were busy with floats and all that stuff but please give us one more chance. And I said, okay, I'll give you a two day extension. And you know what happened? They began to sing spontaneously. We love you, Prof. Sproul. Oh yes, we do. I was the most popular professor on campus until November the 30th. November the 30th, 150 students came with their term papers. The other 100 walked in like they were going down the street for a loaf of bread. They were casual, relaxed, came in. I said, Johnson. He said, yes, sir. I said, where's your term paper? He said, hey, hey, Prof, you know? Don't worry about it. I'll have it for you in a couple of days. And I took out the black book. I said, Johnson. He said, yes. I said, F, Ewalt, where's your paper? I don't have it, sir. I said, F, Cunningham, F. About that time, somebody in the back of the room shouted out, you can guess what they shouted, what? That's not there. Patrick. Did you say that? And he said, yes. I said, that's not fair. And he said, right, I said, do I recall that you didn't turn your paper in on time the last time? And he said, that's right. I said, okay, if you want justice, you're gonna get justice. And I wrote F for both. I said, anybody else? Anybody else want justice? Ladies and gentlemen, we need to understand the difference between justice and mercy. The minute you think that God owes you mercy, a bell should go off in your brain that warns you and tells you that you're no longer thinking about mercy. For by definition, mercy is voluntary. God is never obligated to be merciful to a rebellious creature. He doesn't owe you mercy. As he has said, I will have mercy. Upon whom I will have mercy. And I'll close with this. A holy God is both just and merciful, never unjust. There is never an occasion in any page of sacred scripture where God ever, ever punishes an innocent person. God simply doesn't know how to be unjust. I thank him every night that he does know how to be non-just because mercy is non-justice, but it is not injustice. And so I'll leave you with this. When you say your prayers, don't ever ask God to give you justice. He might do it. And if God were to deal with us according to justice, we would perish as swiftly as Nadab and Abihu and Uzzah and Ananias in Sephora in the New Testament. But we live beloved by grace, by his mercy. And let's never forget it. Thank you for sharing this night. God bless you. Good night.