 Okay so hello, good afternoon and welcome. Can you hear me right? So thank you all of you for being here. I'm Azucena Bello and I'm very honored to be moderating this event, Next Generation of Climate Leaders. And I am here thanks to the IYNC which is the International Youth Nuclear Congress and I'm representing both Nuclear for Climate Initiative and Jóvenes Nucleares, the Spanish young generation in nuclear. So those three are examples of youth-driven initiatives that are very engaged and committed to explain and like disseminate about the role of nuclear as part of our solution for climate change. But today you're going to hear climate leaders who are championing efforts to overcome our climate challenges. Each of them brings a unique perspective with fascinated backgrounds and insight for the next generations looking to join this work. But before we bring up the first speaker today, Huah Liu, who is the Deputy Director General for the Technical Cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency, is here today to share his thoughts on this important topic. So please, Huah. Thank you very much. Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, let me begin by welcoming you to the IEA Atom for Climate Pavilion here at COP28. It's a pleasure to open this session on the Next Generation of Climate Leaders who will help to shape the future of our planet. The IEA leveraged the power of science and technology to address climate change on a global scale. In addition to climate mitigation, the IEA also played a role in supporting countries to monitor and adapt climate change through nuclear application. Cutting-edge science, research and technologies help countries to adapt climate change in multiple areas such as food production system, water resources, marine ecosystem, urban and industry infrastructure, and effective early monitoring warning system. Last week at COP28, IEA Director General Rafa Grossi gained the support of dozens of member states for nuclear powers key role in helping communities to transition away from fossil fuel and achieve their climate goal and energy security. Based on the latest country date, the IEA project, that nuclear power generation will more than double by 2050. Roughly 20 countries recently pledged to work toward the aspirational goal of tripling their nuclear capacity by 2050. This ambition goal will only serve to increase projection for overall nuclear power generation. To support this expansion, the qualified workforce in the nuclear field will need to grow from the suppliers, to the operators, to the regulators, to the commissioning experts and the waste management. The IEA support use through capacity building in nuclear science and technology, particularly through the IEA technical cooperation program, which implement many of these activities. The IEA offer many opportunities for young professionals including training workshop and the fellowship program. The IEA Marie Curie fellowship program support the female student to complete the master degree program in the nuclear field and the possibility to competent as an internship in IEA. The program intend to increase the number of women in the nuclear field. By investing in the next generation nuclear specialist, we can prepare for the next generation of nuclear power. These early career professionals will be instrumental in driving change. I'm looking forward to hearing the young generation's perspective on the challenges and opportunities in the nuclear sector in the future and also in this event. Thank you very much. So thank you very much Huwa for sharing your thoughts. To kick off today's conversation we will hear from Dr. Catherine Hough, assistant secretary of the Office of Nuclear Energy with the United States Department of Energy. But before that she was a professor at the University of Illinois Urbana Champagne where she led advanced reactors in fuel cycles research group. Welcome Dr. Hough. Oh excellent. Well thank you so much. Fear not. I am not the youth. I aged out of youth at least two years ago. I'm 37. I was recently the youth though and I care a great deal about the youth and so I'm really pleased to be here among the youth. So thank you for having me. I'll try not to do the thing that old people do and talk too much. I think I have a few thoughts though. Here we are as you probably recall on the anniversary of President Eisenhower's Adams for Peace speech that was December 8th 1953 and in the UN General Assembly he marshaled the fear and horror of nuclear weapons atomic weapons facing the entire planet to get the UN to stand up the IAEA right and he really marshaled that fear. It launched domestic and international initiatives not just the IAEA but you know it resulted in what would be you know robust peaceful nuclear power in the United States. As we celebrate it I think we're really in a space where you know his prescient thoughts on what nuclear power could do are just as real today as they were then. If you've listened to the speech recently it could be said today you know he was very prescient he suggested experts should be mobilized to apply that atomic energy to the needs of agriculture and medicine and other peaceful activities to provide abundant electrical energy and that he thought that mobilizing American experts would be required. It would mean refocusing the work of the national laboratories that had been stood up for the production of weapons and the investment of those 1940s activities in the Manhattan Project would need to be re-leveraged towards more peaceful ends and he had this incredible confidence and scientific ingenuity in part because that that activity was not done by ancient people it was done by the youth. Yes there were a few key leaders and physics positions but the average age of the people building the A-bomb and then occupying the national laboratories at their dawn and then deploying nuclear power whether it was in the Navy nuclear reactors program or the brand new sets of reactors that were spurred by it afterwards were quite young they were in their 20s there are excellent pictures of like the B reactor out at Hanford and everyone looks like they're 22 and I think that is one reason why we got so much done in that period. Today we certainly face a different existential threat it's not atomic weapons that we should leverage to marshal all of the energy that we have before us it is the climate crisis unquestionably my parents generation were gravely concerned about atomic weapons my generation and everyone younger than me mostly you all are much more concerned about as Greta Turnberg would put it our house being on fire all this argument discussion about whether it's cost effective to put that fire out is a little exhausting I think for those of us who will have to live in that house on fire you know as we think about the future here I will say President Eisenhower often wrangled with this balance between the expenses of war and the investments you could make in a more prosperous future re-leveraging the national laboratories was costly changing the direction of young people working on you know more dangerous things was costly and actually in April of 1953 earlier in that year he gave a different speech called the chance for speech and in it he said something that I'll leave you with when we think about what it costs to fight climate change and how we must do it even if it's costly he said every gun that is made every warship that is launched every rocket fired signifies in the final sense a theft oh excuse me a theft from those who hunger and are not fed from those who are cold and are not clothed this world in arms is not spending money alone it is spending the sweat of its laborers the genius of its scientists and the hopes of its children so when we think about intergenerational equity when we think about the cost of climate change the existential threat facing us I hope we can use that thought to marshal all of our resources especially money and attention and time to save the hopes for children so thank you not that you're all children you're quite quite adult thanks thank you doctor have it's great to hear from your work being done in the United States that will tap the future generations and that suffered next up we are going to hear from Grace Tank who has crowned Miss America 2023 she's a nuclear and engineering student at the University of Wisconsin Madison and is working to change the perceptions of nuclear energy she sees this work as essential for aspiring youth especially girls to explore STEM and seeks a career in this field so welcome Grace thank you so much I just leaned over to dr. Huff and I said I still feel like a kid sometimes and I'm 21 years old I know way too much about taxes for 21 years old though so I it's my first cop here and it has been three days three jam packed full constant moving days and it's been incredible I've spent a lot of time with people in the nuclear industry this year and a lot of people outside of the nuclear industry this year but this is one of the first conferences where everybody in this area cares about climate but aren't necessarily exposed to nuclear right or maybe they're not fully in support of nuclear and one of the common themes I've found in conversations with these people that care about climate and they want to take action is that we all feel this existential dread from most climate activists and environmentalists and I was hearing stories about some of the young advocates advocates that went to the Baraka nuclear power plant nearby and it was incredible they brought a journalist with them and the journalist said these nuclear stories are the best stories ever to come out of cop because it represents hope and I really want to share some of my experiences and this time from being Miss America of when I've seen that hope firsthand you know I prior to Miss America I was just a lowly co-op at one of the the companies in America working on 12 different nuclear power plants across the country and I started remotely so I didn't get to know my co-workers I didn't get to know the people around me and I remember driving down to a nuclear power plant because they offered a tour at the Bradwood nuclear generating station so a five-hour drive away from my small town in Wisconsin keep that in mind and it was July I was giving up a good lake day for this all right I was upset but it's okay so five hours driving down there I have no idea what I'm walking into I don't even know what my boss looks like even after working with them for a year engineers don't turn on their cameras on teams calls I can tell you that much I'm driving down and I remember driving through Illinois Illinois is a pretty boring state to drive through if I'm being honest a couple of windmills but lots of corn and I remember seeing the cooling towers come over the very very small hill that there was and all of a sudden I started shaking and I couldn't figure out why I knew I wasn't afraid of it I knew I wasn't worried in any capacity I realized it was just genuine excitement and awe because I had seen that hope I watched that hope unfold in front of me as I drive a little bit more carefully because I was like oh my god this is so cool and I kept driving closer to the Bradwood power plant but what is that hope within nuclear what I've learned in the past year is it's not the science it's not the awesome plumes of water vapor coming out of the cooling towers it's the people it is the teams of people working together making these decisions calling each other out on flaws on errors and being open and honest and promoting a questioning attitude that's what gives me hope and that's what nuclear brings to an event just like COP 28 we don't just bring awesome science we don't just bring literally the cure to saving the world and curing cancer nothing else in the climate sector can say that except us which is let's go all right but nobody else can say that we build the teams we build a culture of acceptance and a culture of working together throughout my time as Miss America I have traveled two hundred ten thousand miles or so I have to double check on the numbers since traveling to Dubai I was at 25 hour travel day so I think that added a lot more but it's been incredible because I'm working with people from kindergartners to politicians to nursing home residents to army members literally anybody and everybody with different backgrounds and the amount of people that reach out and say hey Grace I had never really considered a career in nuclear before I had never even thought about supporting nuclear before having a simple conversation with you about the teams of people and about what nuclear science has to offer that's the impact that we have in this industry the science is awesome but the people are even better and it's time we spotlight that and we're seeing that here at COP with so many young strong advocates because we're here and we're very loud and proud and incredibly blessed to work with awesome people just like Dr. Huff and I say that in full sincerity I knew I knew Dr. Huff okay side story sorry I knew Dr. Huff I well it was interesting because I remember I go to the University of Wisconsin Madison which you did your PhD right yeah PhD at Madison and the University invited Dr. Huff back and she gave a talk and I remember sitting there and I was I was I don't even think I was Miss Wisconsin at the point I was just another student right I was like this woman is so cool and the thing that's awesome though is she took the time to have a conversation with me afterwards just I don't even remember what it was about I think I was asking about like nuclear waste on some island and I don't know because I was like I need to Google a hard question for this woman right I have to impress her and it's truly incredible because it's the mentorship and this intergenerational cooperation that is making all of the difference we have that in the nuclear industry we have that hope and I'm so thankful and honored to be a representative of it and I hope to continue doing so in the future I do have to head out early thank you so much everybody for having me here it is truly truly incredible I appreciate it thank you so much Grace thank you for sharing your story and the way that you share it so next we are going to hear from Shaz Hoke who works for the OECD nuclear energy agency with her background in nuclear engineering and experience in both Lucid Catalyst and Frazier Nash consultancy she's a significant contributor to the EU policy field and she's also pursuing a doctoral degree in the science and technology of fusion energy at the University of Oxford welcome Shaz thanks so much I have no idea how I'm going to follow Miss America and Doctor Hub but I hope you don't mind me reading my remarks I needed to work in climate from the moment I learned about global warming at school the problem seems so simple and easy to solve when I was that age just stop burning fossil fuels but I quickly learned that that was not so simple we had to find something to replace them with the wind doesn't blow enough everywhere in the sun sadly doesn't shine all the time and back then energy from neither could be stored in the way that we needed it as at scale so I was very lucky to also learn about nuclear energy at school again things felt a lot simpler back then and it was clear to me that nuclear energy was the source the energy source that we needed clean reliable powerful efficient I just had to spend all my time trying to figure out why the world hadn't used it to solve the quite climate crisis yet and how I could help it simply didn't make sense to me at the time why not at first I thought it could be a technical problem maybe it wasn't powerful enough or maybe there were there was another nuclear technology which could help like fusion so I decided to become a nuclear engineer and apply myself that way I worked hard trying to gain skills that I thought I needed to help figure out that miraculous technical solution to climate change after all everyone does say that nuclear fusion is the Holy Grail of all energy that path led me through fusion through fission to fusion through being an engineer to being a scientist I wound my way through and discovered so many things along the way the biggest thing for me was that the technology seemed to already be there we knew how to harness energy from nuclear reactions the things we couldn't do we already had pathways to figuring out I even learned that nuclear could decarbonize beyond electricity working alongside renewables to help make things to help make things like steel and hydrogen so what was the problem then why still didn't we have clean energy everywhere and no more climate change as a teen I oversimplified things but as an adult I find myself over complicating them I wondered again what I could do to make a difference to apply myself to the challenge to find the biggest barrier and figure out how to break it down that changed my direction to international nuclear policy now I work now I look beyond technical technological capability to see what kinds of things the world can do to ensure that nuclear is harnessed along with all climate solutions quickly urgently safely efficiently reliably to really make a difference right now this is where I think I can make a difference throughout my career I'm always trying to find trying very hard to find a fast effective way to make a difference it just it just doesn't feel like we have time for anything else today I have hope because I can see things in the climate space which I didn't at the start of my journey collaboration cooperation and cultivation collaboration between countries and organizations to get things done like here at COP cooperation of different industries to try to find solutions together and cultivation of exciting new ideas that come out of all of that like developing small modular reactors to produce hydrogen the world is finally waking up to the fact that we must work together to solve this thing and we're going to need to throw in everything that we have at it my journey has made me think about future generations who will work in climate I see people being less scared of going off the beaten track for their careers and trying new things as new technologies or career paths create new options I see an urgency people have trying to make a difference people in the previous generation barely thought of climate change people in my generation followed climate careers with the idea that they could make a difference as you can probably tell I just chose a good idea and ran with it at full speed I see the next generation entering the climate sector out of hope just like Grace said I hope hope that they can do anything at all to stop or mitigate its effects hope that they can become fast enough become effective fast enough for net zero hope that they can make big big changes and have impacts that they can actually see in their lives because of this drive from hope I can see the next generation being the ones who are capable of actually solving this crisis and living with all the wonderful new innovations the ones who are operating the SMRs that we build the ones who are carbon capture experts or running industries in algae biofuels if you're interested in a career in climate my biggest advice is to focus on your passion if you're desperate to do something to solve climate the climate challenge find that desperation within you and let it guide you towards a pathway that you feel passionate about you will find meaning meaningful work in this space your climate career may be frustrating at times as solutions that you work on don't work or aren't moving fast enough you will need to be flexible with your expectations of where you will end up it may be very different to where you think that is now but ultimately know that you will find yourselves to be useful and do meaningful things to affect change I'm going to end with my boss's favorite quotes that she loves telling me all the time she's a really big Lord of the Rings fan insisted that I said this when Frodo said I wish it I wish it need not have happened in my time Gandalf replied to him so do I and so do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide all we have to decide is what to do and what to do with the time that is given to us thank you so much it is great to hear from what's top of mind of those leading policy work because it's really connects with the advocacy of the young people so to close out our speakers I am excited to bring up Ricky Ruff who is sorry revolutionizing the fashion industry he is motivated by the UN as a sustainability development goals and strives to create a multilateral approach to solving our imminent decarbonization requirements Ricky is the founder and managing director of Global Nuclear Concept and he began his fashion career in New York with Ralph Lauren and he also traveled across the world with the Middle East, Europe, Asia, with Global Nuclear Concepts so welcome Ricky thank you very much so obviously having to follow all of these amazing presentations having to bring up the rear I'm going to have to bring it home strong right so Dr. Huff we don't go back but in the future I would say the near future we're going to look back and say you know remember that time when so I just want to first of all say how honored I am to be here COP 28 international atomic energy agency the Adams for climate pavilion this is all such an honor and I'm so happy to share my project with you all and I'm so happy to share some progress on that project with you all and I'm so happy to just bring some enthusiasm via my industry to climate and to nuclear and to just really applaud the efforts of everyone working in the nuclear space to drive nuclear forward and really be that solution so I just want to get started with the UN SDGs that is really the foundation of everything that I do in this space and I was first exposed to them in Switzerland during my master's program and so the one that really sticks out especially at the moment is goal 17 and that is partnerships to achieve the goals so I've spoke before publicly quite in depth about how it is so incredible that we have a consolidated list of 17 targets to focus on that could really change and save the world right but partnership to sell important because to me the idea of multilateralism is one of the key factors in really driving a lot of the progress to actually deploy no nuclear forward right so I'm an industrialist at heart I still work in the industry I started working in the industry I love the scale and magnitude of making things I love factories I love production I'm very much an industrialist at heart but that diverges a little bit from what it means to care about the planet and what it means to preserve the planet and what it means to be sustainable but as this industrialist I think it is incumbent upon us to acknowledge the fact that as economic activity increases as economic dynamism increases so in step does energy use so going forward our energy use as a global group of people is not declining it is increasing and that's not necessarily a bad thing as long as that energy is carbon free so interstage left nuclear so I first started my project just because I saw this convergence of fashion manufacturing which is my background and expertise and professional experience with this newfound understanding of advanced vision technologies so I just want to walk you through quickly a few of the initiatives that I'm working on and some of the progress and again I hope to galvanize not only everyone in this room not only everyone at this conference not only everyone that cares about climate but everyone in the world that participates in fashion which is all of us because we all have one close I really want to galvanize all of us to understand the impact of this initiative so to kind of give the problem a scope it's not something that's indomitable but it's something that is of quite great magnitude this climate crisis is one that is not going to be solved overnight but the good news is that the size of the problem is not bigger than the size of all of our collective initiatives and efforts to solve that problem right so in the apparel industry in the footwear industry there's over 1.7 billion tons of carbon emitted annually in fact 8 to 10 percent of all carbon emissions globally come from the manufacturer of footwear and apparel so that's quite a large number for just one group of companies one industry so it's I felt it incumbent upon me to really just show leadership and provide what I think is the solution to solve manufacturing in the fashion industry so the first initiative I'll walk you through it's about really changing the perspective and changing the overall perception of nuclear energy in the minds of the public because as the regulatory frameworks progress to a point where we can deploy our nuclear technology around the world also the public's perception has to evolve at the exact same pace those two things are both required to deploy nuclear at such a scale that it can make a difference so the first of these initiatives and I've talked about these before but I think it's important in this forum that I explain just a little bit further so the first it's an initiative called shaping the message and it's basically out allowing the most important voices in the nuclear industry to align on what our outward facing message to the general public should be the second of my initiatives is a Jeffersonian style salon style industry meetup so I'm bringing together stakeholders decision makers from the nuclear industry as well as from the fashion industry so we can have an informal requirements analysis so that both divergent fields can come together and have a conversation about what the other side needs and begin to scope out the scale of those solutions the third is a pop-up museum that I'm unveiling at fashion weeks around the globe New York Paris Milan London any global city that has a fashion week will in my view in my dream world be a host to one of my pop-up museums where nuclear reactor technologies can be showcased and nuclear reactor companies can really showcase their their latest advanced vision technologies and solutions so that's that's the project side I've got two other global projects that are working on the deployment of micro nuclear reactors the first is in Turkey in northwestern Erdina it's a new facility that's being built there and it's my goal for them to utilize nuclear power for all of the operations that take place at this new world-class fashion facility the next is in Nepal I spent a lot of time in Nepal in the past and I've kind of gushed about what a beautiful place it is and how I think we should preserve the Torah and how just the perspective of the people there is also a guiding light for a sustainable attitude but in those upper mountainous regions of the Himalayas there is no energy grid but there are so many people that live there that deserve electricity so it makes an off-grid micro nuclear reactor solution perfect to lift those people out of energy poverty but also to power their world-class sub-12 micron cashmere factories so there's another thing that's coming as well and I just wanted to shine a little bit of a light on my first nuclear powered fashion carbon offset so that is enabling a mechanism to help to finance these deployments of all these reactors around the world so to kind of close and wrap all of this up and put like kind of a bow on everything that I've thrown at you so far I just want to talk about how important it is to understand fashion as an on-ramp for nuclear power it is not exactly an easy technology to understand and I know firsthand because I am approaching it from somewhat of a pedestrian I don't have a phd in nuclear fission or reactor technologies but I feel like I understand it enough to utilize it as what I would consider a silver bullet panacea solution to our climate problems so again I just want to close with the notion that this is such a democratic issue and everyone can participate and this is something that you'll hear much more from me about in the coming times thank you so much for your attention and this is an awesome conference and let's really galvanize it and keep this momentum going so thank you so much so now we have time for some questions if the audience has any please raise your hands and we can give you the mic or in the meantime if someone gathers it after my homework we've done our homework and I have some questions for you too so yeah I heard the announcement about the commitment to triple a nuclear energy production capacity by I think it was 2050 question is is that the best the industry and the government can do or is that the best agreement and commitment you could achieve at this this form from the US government's perspective we got there from working backwards from net zero by 2050 our assessment and this is nicely detailed in a number of reports but most notably the lift off reports to commercialization we estimate that depending on how much how many renewables we're able to deploy we'll need between 550 and 770 additional clean firm gigawatts in the united states of those clean firm gigawatts you're going to have hydropower you're going to have long-duration energy storage etc but you're also going to have to have at least another 100 to 200 gigawatts within that 550 to 770 one to 200 gigawatts of new nuclear in the US which would triple capacity in the US calculations all over the world are pretty similar at least in those 22 plus countries that's the estimation of what we need now it's not necessarily an estimation of the best we can do it's not even an estimation of what we believe is possible it's what it's an estimation of what we believe is needed does that help I was like you you could answer this question too I mean the I'm not entirely familiar with the report in itself but the NEA has been saying for years according to my director general um to triple nuclear capacity by 2050 is necessary so we also have our analysis that says it comes to the same conclusion yeah thank you very much I'm Samir from Ghana my question I think would go to you um is it Richie Ricky rough Ricky great how do you situate your um I don't know what you should call it uh plan with what we face in Africa where we know that it's not a policy issue it's a money problem we want a reactor we know we need a reactor if you take Ghana we've been going through all the phases they've told us but we know it's a money problem now if you go tell someone that I need to make the policy in a way that the vendor the country that is going to accept the the reactor to kind of like agree some of us will look at you and go like hey what's going on here we know it's a money problem so can you situate it in our context and then also to you yeah I did some studies on smr's but then this year I went for a conference and it looks like the push is for smr's now in one breath we are talking about smr's now from the analysis you gave you you're talking gigawatts of energy if you're going to use smr's that's like building a million of them so how do we what's the dichotomy when is what needed can I take the first part of that please what an in-depth question there's a lot of pieces to that so let's let's break it down and take it step by step so I just want to speak to your region and your country right so a part of deploying reactors in in my sense is to be able to hit those you and sdgs and to lift people that are currently experiencing energy poverty that's over 13 of the globe at the moment does not have access to electricity appalling in 2023 that that's still the case so although I'm planning to deploy these nuclear reactors on the micro side at factories between 10 and 300 megawatts gigawatts megawatts it's it's really about using that latent energy as well for those factory communities because in the developing world where many of the fashion products are produced they're quite energy insecure but the reactor won't only provide electricity for the factory and the manufacturing it provides electricity for the people that live at the factory and live in those surrounding areas so that's the first piece of it the regulatory framework for deployment is actually quite a headwood and I've experienced so many conversations with governments around the world where that is kind of the hesitation on their side and also the United States we are actually the gold standard in um safety and in terms of just having one two three agreements and our our standards are quite supreme around the world so our deployment could face some headwinds based on that sensibility however I've also found with conversations with um nuclear reactor manufacturers the export of technology is also um that headwind complicates those conversations quite a bit and the last piece of that I can speak to is the financing piece so if we look at ppas and the supply chain of advanced vision that's really where we need the most innovation and that's where also fashions provided a great example Henry Ford actually did at first with the assembly line but if you um leverage economies of scale we can really drive those prices down and we can drive we can decrease the speed that it takes to get a reactor actually deployed on any scale so that again that could solve some of the financial issues there but there's a lot of business models out there and I'll quote okla with one of them but the ability to purchase the power itself rather than purchasing the full reactor all at once by itself could solve that financing issue and that's something we're looking at quite a bit into to deploy those as soon as possible fantastic yeah let me go back to the financing issue I think the models we've seen them or at least they come and explain them but the bottom line is if you are dealing with a country like Mali where electrification is just 19 percent and the GDP is way too small and what what I hear from the economists is the the guys cannot pay for the electricity given what it entails to build it so someone has to give I don't know but in the theory can be said if they can't produce it and then they can sell it at the rate at which for instance the people in in France can afford it they can pay the prices we are talking about but why is it when we come to Africa if you say Africa should pay maybe five cents for power and the GDP or the economic indicators show that they cannot afford it then that thing will be blown out of the window even if we explain it anyhow so why is it that we can't find a solution around this I'm not saying give it for free but then we find a way of using let me give an example I know for instance in Ghana in the 1960s when we're building or we wanted the first hydro power we're only five million the US that helped us knew that we didn't need a thousand and thousand two hundred megawatts of energy but what they did was to build industries that will pay for the reactor that hydro power and I think in a way it worked but today you don't hear things like that and I don't know what you think but then how is it that we are not situating it around stuff like that so that it makes sense we don't just look at the fact that inflation in Ghana is maybe 40 percent and therefore they can't pay electricity in the next 10 years or we want the Ghanaian to pay the same amount as the guy in UK when the standard of living is not the same so what do we do around that kind of I think that's that's really what I'm troubled with thank you I just wanted to respond to that question with maybe a segue maybe back to Dr. Huff about the tripling nuclear by 2050 joint declaration that was announced last Saturday within it there was reference to the World Bank and the fact that the World Bank excludes nuclear from its from its financing and the US along with 24 other countries at the moment I think and growing I believe called in that statement for the World Bank to reconsider that and to try and release this development funding which is designed to develop the global the global south and deploy a just transition so Dr. Huff do you know a little bit more about that yeah it's critically important that the World Bank consider a reevaluation of what drives their mission they have a more climate-focused policy than they have in the past and I think we as funders of the World Bank we are a collection of countries that want to see it you know reconsider now it will need to expand its capability in terms of due diligence they don't have a staff built up to do due diligence on giant multi-billion dollar nuclear projects but I think we would really like to see them begin to consider that what it takes is a vote of the World Bank governors and whatnot and I think you know if you took that vote today it might go better than it has in the past but I would really support moving forward with great speed because it's going to take them a while to get stood up and get the capacity for that due diligence stood up you asked this question about well how are we going to build you know how are we going to triple if it's SMRs because it's so many of them and you're right you know we're in the space of if you want many hundreds of gigawatts probably around what 800 new gigawatts worldwide if you're going to triple global capacity you know 200 in the US we're talking about like 30 to 40 reactors a year for the next 25 years across the globe right if you're talking about gigawatt scale reactors you're talking about SMRs now you're talking about 90 to 120 SMRs a year for the next 25 years it's a crazy number so yeah I think it's going to be a mixture of gigawatt scale plants and the majority probably of those gigawatts will be provided by a small number of you know gigawatt scale plants but that same number of SMRs will also be needed to fill out the rest and in fact there will probably even microreactors filling out about 100 200 300 megawatts of that you know in a in specific applications so it'll be a mixture hopefully if we do it right I also just I don't mean to go so deep into this but it's so constructive because the question that you're asking is actually a very good one and it really does beg the question of how and that's really that one of the themes of this cop is there is a promise there is you know a commitment but really how and what have we done and what are we going to do and what can we do those are all quite valid questions but the what you're really getting at is is the economics of this and it's really a baseline economics question so personally I don't believe in subsidies and I don't believe subsidies are the solution I don't believe hand outs are the solution I don't believe the world bank giving money is going to really solve it for me it's always about value creation and it is about the GDP and it is about exports so for example my project in Nepal I'm helping them participate in the global economy because they have something to trade so the cashmere that they produce they're literally I'm helping them and hoping that I could make some really big orders in the near term but to sell that to European fashion brands to sell their product in exchange for payment for that PPA like literally it's trade it's global trade and there's really in my opinion no substitute for value creation and global trade and that's how the economics of this and how finance and how capitalism can actually really work in concert with those SDGs and we can enlarge the pie and let the tide raise all the boats you've heard me say that before I'm saying it now I'll be saying it again but that's really the solution for me is trade and capitalism and really using both sectors and that public private partnership together to enlarge the pie and raise all the boats that that's what we have to do I think also just on the smr point we you quoted Henry Ford I might move that a little forward and quote Alfred Sloane from generators I think afterwards he came up with the slogan a car for every person purpose which I think aptly describes what we're trying to do what the industry is trying to do with smrs and not just fill the electricity decarbonisation gap but also apply this new technology to things like in the fashion industry to industries like the fashion industry but use the heat use the really really good high quality constant high temperature heat to to decarbonise hydrogen for example and decarbonise steel production and other things so don't just look at it as we're pushing everyone's pushing for nuclear to just replace electricity it's something that it's a technology that's developing very quickly at the moment and there's a lot of innovation happening and it's likely to be really useful for many many different sectors across the board absolutely thank you you have a question let's go ahead okay does anyone else has any other question can I just comment again on that last point just sorry sorry to go back to that but again countries in this gentleman's position countries like this do deserve to have an industrial revolution in the same way that we've had in the rich world but in order to industrialize it is about that trade but if we are to consider a carbon market and if we were to consider the financing that carbon offsetting can provide I think that is also a very direct solution to to solving some of the financial concerns I just want to double stop that because ultimately as an academic I'm compelled to say what you've just described is the internalization of externalities into the macroeconomic system and if you do that subsidies are less needed you know if you can fully achieve full like externality internalization of all the impacts on society of any particular item and you incorporate it into the price then subsidies shouldn't be needed and free markets don't work unless you do that thing first and we're not doing it with carbon anyway I just want to say you're right I told you we're going to be friends we see bffs now way back have another question from yeah thank you for for this very interesting debate I am from the voices of nuclear in France so I am already convinced by my nuclear what you said just a few question very short question for all of you because we are talking about the pathway to 2050 so in 30 years this is really long road to to go what is for you the main risk of nuclear industry just your opinion in this so each of you if you can answer please thanks well in 30 years I'm not going to be that old so that's a world I can imagine and that's a world that I can absolutely see like showing leadership towards so one of the the main risks that we do have to focus is just ensuring that nuclear is deployed in a way that's equitable among all 195 countries in the world in action I think I'm really really scared that we lose this motivation that we seem to have or this momentum and motivation that we seem to have gained in the last couple years when it comes to nuclear for me it's not about nuclear really it's about climate change I think we will get that we're all a cop but nuclear seems like you heard my story seems to me like a pretty big piece of the jigsaw puzzle and if we can't get our act together and sort things out if we can't deploy if we can't meet the tripling by 2050 we can't find if we can't all work together really really fast and really well and I don't know if we're gonna make it to 2050 at least in a nice way at least in the way that we can imagine a beautiful future with clean fashion etc so yeah just losing this kind of momentum that's what I'm really scared of I couldn't agree more you know I focused my initial remarks in part on I hope you got the message spending dollars on the future and investments rather than spending them on war and foolish other things the quality and importance of investment in climate is the danger that I see between us and potential inaction what you're saying is exactly right inaction is the danger and in particular financial inaction is the danger I see most readily I don't see that we have technical challenges I don't even see that we have a rate problem we've built nuclear reactors quite quickly in the past and we did a fine job at multiple countries including France but it takes investment and there's not a great deal of patient capital lying around and I think part of that is because people aren't as motivated to save the world as the youth is and must be okay yeah we have time for one more question you talked about the investment you know we're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of current investment but when we look at the the last serious existential you know challenge to certain nations world war two the united states spent upwards of one third of its GDP on that war effort that would translate today to the order of seven trillion dollars a year there's a lot of capacity there just awaiting leadership to motivate our nation our nations to invest properly how do we get there well you may know from that history that we hid those expenditures from the majority of congress so during the execution of the manhattan project the spending on the manhattan project was not the congress was primarily not privy to what they were doing with it and had no oversight on it in the united states this is very different than the situation we face in terms of congressional spending today i'm not suggesting that we hide the way we're spending climate money on climate today from congress but i am saying they didn't have a role then that they do now they were told this is a secret war effort and you will spend this money and they they weren't told what it was what they were doing the vast majority of congress had no idea and i think we'd need leadership from a much bigger group of people to move this kind of money in the future the bipartisan infrastructure law and the inflation reduction act are on the order of 1.7 trillion dollars worth of investment in a very real sense and that is as far as we could push it this last year but we're gonna have to keep doing that over and over again to hit the numbers we need i don't know sorry i answered that but you guys could also answer it no you did great that was yeah so we need to wrap up now so as uh the conclusions well is it working yeah thank you so gravestank says uh that nuclear stories are the one that represent hope that it is the people not the science the ones the ones that gives her hope okay and she led by example by sharing her own story and how having a simple conversation can make a real impact but it wasn't the only story shared today dr half also shared how the forts and the innovation and research in the military field turned into the robust and peaceful nuclear power that we have today and how this effort in the 1940s was run by young people she also told us another story that we need to understand climate crisis as a threat because our house is burning and we need to think about what a what the costs of climate change are chas also share her story about how she became an engineer and then then how she moved to nuclear policy how as we adults tend to over complicate things and how she identifies hope in collaboration cooperation and cultivation ideas such as as a mars for example and ricky also led by example by sharing his story and his plans she wanted to bring enthusiasm to the climate in nuclear sector and how the multilateralism is the key to achieve this sustainable sdgs sustainable development goals and she also he also led by example by sharing his plans how to align a face and message how to bring together stakeholders from both the industry nuclear industry and the fashion industry and make them bring synergies to deploy micro reactors for closed facilities to create like pop-up museums so that anyone is can understand nuclear and utilize it so we need to wrap up here but i would like to thank you all for being here today i mean the speakers and the audience you are leading incredible work in the climate space and it's very encouraging to hear from those who are really driving climate solutions and inspiring the next generation of climate leaders so thank you very much