 All right, well, welcome to the hearing of the local historic district commission. We seek to aid property owners in the town and preserving and protecting the distinctive characteristics and architecture of buildings in places significant to our history. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023 this will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so by a zoom or by telephone. Okay, so the first item that we have on our agenda. I believe is to talk about. 4749 fearing street. Is Chester Mitchell here. No, I don't see anyone in the attendees right now that would be here for this project. We probably have enough information. Any way to go on. Has everybody seen the changes to the here's Bruce good. Yeah, I can share my screen so we can look at the. So here's the existing conditions for 47. To 49 fearing and so they're they'd like to replace these steps and there are some questions at the previous hearing, you know, what. What they would actually look like how much should they cover here and so. The. What, what the builder provided was. You know plan saying that it looks similar to this. You know, and they won't go all the way right I'll just go from railing to to ballard. Six feet wide. Come out, you know, three or four steps, and then they'll cover the brick. This brick with a similar existing. Yeah, so it's like just actually looks off it. It's just like the railing, but. And they submitted some. You know, additional information that this is the system they'd be using. So it's a tracks railing system and tracks decking. This is probably a better picture of actually what it would look like. Can I ask a question. Can you go back to the previous image. The existing conditions image or. Yeah, I guess that was it because you said something about. Yeah, you said the brickwork. You said replacing it with something that looks similar to the vertical material that's right there now. Right. So if you can see the cursor right there, just continue this over. They, you know, to pass this end to the. This area. Yeah. What is that stuff? Do you know. This right here. It's a solid material. Usually you can see by the ventilation it's designed to allow air to pass through without insects passing through. Right. So it's instead of using say. Something that's more open that you're using this to cover to wrap the porch. I mean, it's been like this. But stuff on the other side looks different. Yeah. I think it's actually this stuff and then here was solid. I mean, my guess is at one point right there is a different kind of stairway here. They didn't, they didn't. They just didn't clean it up when they put this in. I mean, it looks like it's a big improvement over what there's, it's going to look much better. Right. It doesn't seem like they're changing anything other than just the stairs, right? So they're not going to touch the railings on the porch or anything or the columns just adding a new stairs as shown here. And what's under the stairs there? Will that be more of the stuff? So, you know, the new stairs are going to come off from this column and here coming off straight, you know, they'll remove all of this, all of this here. And then they'll continue this trim all the way over to me right here. Oh, do you mean under the stairs here? Yep. That's what I was asking you about. Yeah. I mean, they, the way I'm understanding it'd be the same, but we could, you know, the commission could condition that, that it, you know, it be something similar or, you know, different. I mean, in the images that are shown, you know, sometimes it's solid. And sometimes it's this. It's right. It's the, this type of material. So if we wanted to not, you know, be this, we could, we should say that. I mean, to me, this is probably the most accurate example of what it would look like in terms of the railing and the risers and everything. Kelly has got another question, which is the use of tracks in the local historic districts. This is my first one of these meetings. So do you typically approve tracks? Yeah, it has been approved. I mean, the visibility of the tracks will be minimal. I mean, it'll just be on the treads. It's not. It's not on the, the, the uprights or wood railing. The railings are going to be a composite material. So, you know, synthetic material. It says steps and rail. So that probably is a fixed system. I mean, it's right. It's a whole thing is a track system. So I think, you know, this is right. This is from like their catalog. So when you look at this, the two things that stand out, if you want to be fussy, and I'm not sure whether we do, but you can see the top rail is a handrail. It's got a, it's got a groove under it. So it's a, and the bottom rail is is kind of a two by four on flat. Then if we go to the original condition or the existing, you can see that the, the rail on the top here of the balustrade is not a handrail thing. It's simply a flat square section two by four on flat. And then if you go down to the bottom, you can see the two by four here is vertical and not horizontal. I think I don't know whether we want to fuss with this and ask them to put the two by four of the track system vertically rather than horizontally is the system probably is not well suited to that. This is a wood piece here and it's probably fitted and it's probably quite good wood, you know, from an age when you can buy that and without paying a arm and a leg on the one hand or killing a spotted owl or something like that on the other. So maybe we just accept that the system will not exactly match this, but that the spacing of the balustrade, for example, their square balustrade balusters these vertical elements are called balusters. We could just ask that the baluster spacing be be the equivalent to the spacing so this is wider here. But it doesn't have to be wider it could be it could be equivalent or we could just say, you know, it's close enough and and and it and it's okay. I'm, I'm, I would, I would myself I would say, let them use the standard treks handrail profile and let them use the the bottom rail horizontally instead of vertically, but space the balusters to match the existing. I like, I like that suggestion. I think the wide spacing of the balusters looks strange to me. Next to these close spacing ones up on the porch itself. The other issue that would come up if this this railing is probably not grippable for stairs it's it's probably too wide it just comes up with inspectors all the time. For the handrail where treks, it like will be the right width to be grippable. I think you're right, Nicole. That's why I would ease up on the. That's that's why I said what I said. Steve. Yeah, I agree with everything you call. And I will say, I don't, I think we should just lay this again until he comes in, because we could approve it and he'll, we'll get what we're suggesting will get lost between the lines and we'll put it up and then we'll like say it's fine the way it is so. And I also think it's a bad practice. For people not to show up and to listen to our concerns and have it communicated second hand. So I would move I moved that we delay this again until the contractor actually, you know, we've had people, you know, convene with us from their cars, you know, so this is not. It's not that onerous to show up for 10 minutes, you know, to give us a presentation and to listen to what we have to say. So I move that we delay this once again. We have a second. Second. Sorry, I was going to say we can't we can't delay it we have to deny it. And what does that mean if we deny it. They have to reapply. Then they should reapply. I'm not sure it's going to change the plans at all just delay the project. Well, what I'm saying is you can, you know, make you're going to tell them that the handrail should be narrow and the structure be less but. How is that enforceable and I mean, the guy can't even show up twice in a row for five for 10 minutes. My feeling is he's going to put up the kit. And then we're, you know, we're going to say that's fine. And if that's fine and we should say that's fine but we have additional conditions I think we should be able to communicate with the contractor directly so he can't say that he didn't understand because he wasn't here. I think the old those conditions if you wanted the spacing that become a condition of the certificate and that'd be enforceable as part of the building permit. So it's not as if they could, you know, deviate from that. And that that's the way, you know, so that's the way I would, if you're voting even what Bruce was saying about the bottom rail if you wanted to be a vertical orientation and not. Not horizontal, say like this, those are things that become enforceable as conditions of the certificate so. You know, it wouldn't get lost in translation if those became conditions same with what you'd want to have happen underneath the stairs. This area so underneath the trim board is it similar is showing different. You know screening here so would you want to say it's a you know the same material to come around here and wrap under the stairs so those are the pieces of the conditions I would, whether the contractors here or not that's what I'd recommend as having be part of the conditions. Bruce. I guess what I what I hear Steve saying, or feeling maybe is that the person is doing this isn't here and hasn't bothered to come twice. And the question before us could then become or the way I would interpret Steve's motion is that we are denying it, because the fellow hasn't had the grace to to come. So I guess, and then other extenuating circumstances here I mean, usually either an owner or the contractor is very often the owner. But here we've had we've not seen the owner, nor the contractor is there some reason why this is different, and that we should not get to Jones by it. Or should we say you know yes this this is the first time in seven years that I've been here but nobody has bothered to show up twice in a row or even once in a row. So we could say, you know, you're not going to get approval if you don't show up. But I've never, I haven't, we haven't, we haven't crossed that bridge before. Yeah, I'm not sure that's actually part of the bylaw. You know, so we, I think it's happened once or twice before for a project where someone hasn't. I don't know if it's the contractor is not equipped to attend by zoom or is not doesn't know how to join the meeting. I think it was like the fourth time. Something like that. Yeah, but, you know, the, you know, it's, yeah, it's interesting. You don't know if it's the contractor is not equipped to attend by zoom or is not doesn't know how to join the meeting. It's just he's a builder, but it's been communicated a few times I know that there are some some contract contractors doing work actually in the local historic districts now that don't, you know, they still submit paper copies and you can see the plans it's hand drawn they don't, you know, they don't have a smartphone, and they don't, you know, they don't submit electronic applications we enter into the system for them. Yeah, I think this is the same type of contractor. Sorry. I think this is a relatively small project and the contractor probably did not see this as, you know, a major thing that he was putting forward. If we are, if we specify what we want in our response. And he's required to follow that. I'm not sure I see a reason for not allowing this to go forward at this point. I agree with Nancy. I agree. I think this is such an improvement to what there is and this contractor probably thought this is so straightforward. And it's kind of no brainer so I'm not sure I guess we send a message that it's not important to show up but I does one message go to the next contractor. If there are those contractors out there that are still sketching things by hand I kind of, and they think this is straightforward. I have understanding for it because I think it's pretty straightforward too. I mean I had no problem with that I just just whether my feeling is that what will happen. Look, I can live with it because I didn't even notice what Bruce was pointing out. But my feeling is if we just okay if he's just going to use the kit and then it's going to be a theta complete which I'm fine with because because it is an improvement. But if we do want to have those changes and we do feel like those are important. I don't think it should be communicated second hand. So I mean I'm easy either way I just, you know, like I said I didn't even notice what Bruce was pointing out or Nicole was pointing out. But I do feel like that's going to go by the wayside, if we don't talk to them directly. I have a question if we do approve it with the conditions that were specified by Bruce, and the contractor goes ahead and puts it in as the kit is shown, you know what was given to us. Then Nate what happens then I mean we could say you didn't follow the conditions and ask them to change it. Yep. Yes, yeah. I mean what I my notes have you know I was actually going to recommend one more thing but for, you know, things that could discuss as you know the baluster spacing the vertical bottom rail, the screening under the stairs and then the kind of caps on the post you know do we want them to match this or is you know how you know how detailed we want it you know is it okay to have something like this that is slightly different than than this and so to me those are the few elements that we could condition approval with. See, it seems to me that what's there now seems like it certainly wasn't the original and it seems like it was a repair job up to maybe the last 20 30 years. So I feel like the kid is really an improvement to that. And I don't know whether it makes sense to ask them to match something that was kind of a put together thing of the last 30 years and not proper historical restoration. My guess is that the baluster illustrate on the porch is close to original if not original. I don't think so. I don't know. But it's also funny that the the porch doesn't. I looked I was by the building this afternoon and and looking at it would seem that you would put a very broad porch between the two posts, and the having tears come down and have it the sides of it one on a vertical post and the other on the, you know that that's short post. It's just kind of a funny thing also it because I don't know why because of the two front doors it's not symmetrical. So, I mean, I think that the whatever the kid is and some modifications to that seem like such a great improvement. There's another one next door that is a similar situation where they've made the stairs come down as part of the post, which is part of the railing as opposed to the vertical columns. There is a motion and it's been seconded right so I guess if we at some point have to take a vote on that motion to continue and then. Or it could be withdrawn. That's what I was going to say we have a motion seconded and we need to either vote on it or or or have it withdrawn. I mean since I made the motion I'm happy to withdraw. Well, if, if, if, if, if, if the motion is being withdrawn, I'll, I'll propose. I'll propose a that we issue a certificate of appropriateness with the usual findings that it's consistent with sections. Eight point whatever and eight point whatever in the and and compatible with the district with the following conditions. And the conditions that I would suggest would be that that the simply that we that the that the that the treks baluster spacings. That the treks baluster section and spacing section being the with the plan profile that it's in five quarter by five quarter whatever that the section and spacing of the balusters match that of the existing porch. The motion that call mentioned I would know that's the motion. And then I'm, I guess I'm, well, I'll. So I'm not putting a couple of other things in there. And, and, and need I was thinking that keeping the, the caps the way they were because those caps are outside and exposed to the weather whereas the one on the porches is is not so much. I think that the general caps to shed the waters is probably a good idea. And as Nicole pointed out, I think it was Nicole, the, the, the inclined rails, having the grip section is probably a good idea. And I think that the, probably the track system that the material requires that it be a horizontal rather than vertical, I think there might be a durability problem enforcing the the way in which you'd have to attach the balusters to the bottom rail would be with angled nails to work okay and would but with the treks I'm sure they're screwing up from the bottom into the. So I think that the, that the section that they have is probably consistent and necessary with the material they're using. So I would make the single condition that the, or maybe there's another condition, the single condition as I said that the section and spacing of the balusters match that of the porch existing porch and that the triangular infill under the stair match the the infill of the existing porch. So second for that motion. Second. Okay, Karen. Yeah, I'm when you, when you say that you want the tracks in spacing equal to those very narrow, unusually narrow ones on the back. Is that something that's going to be really hard for them to do because you've seen the ones going upstairs with the balusters so close together I'm not sure I have it's it might be really hard for them to do that I'm just wondering. I don't think so. I've built porches like that before many times actually in various places over many years and I wouldn't, you know, you do a pilot hold you put trim screws in I, I don't think it would be difficult. I think it would look a lot better. Personally, better. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. For example, probably fabricate the thing. You know, on a horizontal plane on a on a table and then install the whole thing. I wouldn't try and piece it together in place. Is there more discussion before we vote. Okay. Well, let's start with Bruce. Hi. Steve. Hi. Nicole. Hi. Karen. Hi. Elizabeth. Hi. Rita. Hi. And I agree also so those are the conditions that we would like on the certificate. Nate. Sure. All right. So then we can move to our next item, which is 100 104 North prospect. This is integrity development to construct an 18 by 25 foot addition to their rear Southwest corner. Including utilities, lighting and associated improvements. If there's anyone from integrity here, you could raise your hand and provide a presentation. We're going to, and it will make you a panelist. And Nicole as well. Just trying to open my video here. Hello. I believe. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Yeah, thanks for having me. Nicole, who's from our office is sitting in as well. I don't know if she can unmute. Yeah, there you are. Hi. And I know the homeowners here as well, just kind of observing. So. So yeah, this is a addition to a structure that we built finishing in 2018. The original structure was a. Coldham Hartman projects that we've been on and got so finished in 2018. It is, as far as aesthetics go, it's a match to the structure that we built. It's a wood painted bar and board siding with what was called integrity, but now just Marvin. I'm going to go through the date windows with a four over one grill. I don't actually believe there's any exterior lighting on this. The roof to match. Same pitch to match. It is intended as an aging in place. Addition. That was schematically drawn on the plans back in 2017, I believe, whenever it went through town approvals process. So this is the building of that structure. Trying to stick with everything as closely as possible to what was intended back in 2018. Only notable differences are a slight footprint change. I think it is slightly deeper from Nicole was it north to south but not quite as deep from east to west. I think it was just to accommodate the interior something and within a foot or so in either direction though. I'm afraid I don't remember off the top. I didn't draw the original. Yeah, I mean I could look that up I forget but it's within a foot or so in either direction and smaller than the original footprint. I think within the. The setback of what's required there we do have to disassemble a small section of retaining wall in order to get the excavator in there and to maintain a flat space for like a lawn mower to access the other section of the yard because it is slightly built into a hill. Aside from that I guess I'm open to any questions. I think I was going to walk through it quickly. If you don't mind I'll just share the screen. And right so what's being proposed if this is visible for everyone is this back piece here. So let's go to the next page. When you know there's this addition off the off the corner here when it was originally approved this edition was just moved to be in the middle of this building and so previously the commission approved it up on this location. The difference also being that this one right now has a, the original edition had just a shed roof and this one has, you know, a peaked roof to match what's being built. So, you know, as, as integrity said the, you know, the look and feel of the building is to match what was already, you know, the newer edition from 18. In terms of window siding roof and trim and everything so this is just, you know, here's from the back way to look like with a soap roof and windows. And I think I apologize about that I. Yeah, I think it was on the on the south side it was in alignment with the building and it went forward north and looking at the Berkshire design so. Right, so here, yeah, I think this shows up nicely in terms of what it will look like. It's, you know, it's it is slightly visible so you know it's set back from North Prospect Street and it could be visible from North Prospect, even maybe McClellan depending on time of year but it, you know, it's not as if it's on the street. Bruce. You said that this was a Coleman Hartman. That's better because I would have had to made some comment. I saw you and my mind went right just to call them. And the second was I had no recollection of it and I thought this is this is disturbing but that is as very helpful. Okay, so the second question is, is there a site plan. I mean, that is because I hear we've got all building plans but I don't see a site plan at least not in the packet that I could find so but you mentioned Berkshire design the moment. Is it easy enough to pull that up. All right, I might be able to share it. Yeah, Nicola. You can share as panelists. I'll stop my share just to allow. Do we not have one in part of the package. I didn't see one. Neither did I. But then I often miss things so. Yeah. Sorry, it was uploaded as part of the building permit maybe it didn't make its way over to historic but I can pull it up. I can just figure out how to use zoom real quick. So it was part of the building permit. I'm not doing that. I have to say it looks nice. So, can riddle did the original and integrity is fully responsible for the design of this current. Do I understand correctly. Yes. Okay, it looks nice. That's my personal opinion. So that's as far as it goes. Thank you. I can share a screen now quickly. Yeah. Well, you're probably quicker out of the name. I have a pull up and I'm not sharing it. Is this the site plan? No, we've got a stamped one from July. Okay. Just I guess just so mean this is nice for the commission and everyone just, you know, here's North Prospect Street. You know, here's where the addition is going back here. Okay. And so, you know, it's not, it's not on the street necessarily or it'll be, you know, if you walk it, you can see it. From the sidewalk, you'll be able to see, you know, see this, but it's not too visible. I do have the Berkshire design one that pulled up and I could share that if that's helpful, because a little bit more feedback as far as, you know, where there are trees, etc. Sure, that'd be great. It's disabled on my end. Is that something that we can allow? No, interesting. Yeah. Yes, I can. Can you try it now? Okay, no, no, I can. Thank you. Okay. All right, completely everyone can see that now. The original structure, which is 100, which is in the bottom of the southeast corner of the plot here. Although you can see it, I suppose, going down from Halleck, their main access is from Pease. And so you do have a house right across the way in the corner of Halleck and North Prospect, and then there's a pretty large tree that they don't show right between those two. You can actually sort of see the canopy, I believe, coming out of the corner of what they're marking as like 94, 96, two and a half story wood frame. So there's a canopy there in a tree which does, in a big way, shade what you could see from Halleck Street of this structure. And then there's the dashed lines off the southwest corner of 102 to 104, which is the proposed addition. Right. So I was going to just annotate this quickly. So for the commissioners in the public, this is the addition back here. There's this existing house here. Yep. And here's the street. So, you know, there is a structure in front of it. And so, right. And then Pease Place is private, so there's not any consideration in terms of the view from Pease Place. It's really just from, you know, the visibility from the public way. Right. Yes, we've had a couple of projects on Pease before, which is, so I'm not sure maybe they weren't actually on Pease. Or they're visible from other public ways. So, yes, yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, they were. Okay, well that's, that's helpful. And so it is very discreet and not that that could, that's enough of the site plan from my point of view. Are there other comments from the committee? I was by there this afternoon and you can barely see the addition as it is, let alone the addition. I'm not the addition that that structure in the back. So the addition I think would even be less visible. Any other thoughts? Do I have a motion to issue a certificate? I'll do that if you like, or maybe someone else would like to because, yeah, I went to, I'll keep quiet. I was going to stop your sharing just so I don't know if we need that. I'll motion to give a certificate. As described. As described. Do I have a second? Thank you. Do we have more discussion? All right, let's move to vote. Greta. Yes. Elizabeth. Yes. Karen. Yes. Nicole. Yes. Steve. Bruce. Yes. And I also agree. So we have approved your certificate. Thank you for your time. Thank you for coming in for explaining this to us. That was very helpful to us. All right. Thanks. Thank you. That brings us to review and vote on the second 90 day extension for Amherst media certificate of appropriateness. Nate, do you have things you want to tell us about that? We've just gotten some updated information from them. Yeah, I was, it looks like they're here, but the they have applied for a building permit. But the way the rules work is that work has to commence within, you know, say the certificate period. And so, you know, I'd recommend granting a second 90 day extension. Just so that there is no, I mean, I guess that's the commission's decision, but they have submitted a building permit. They just have to get through the process and have that be issued. But the 90 day extension does expire in like three or four days. And so essentially the certificate would then expire. And so a second 90 day would just continue that on. Steve. You're on mute. Steve, you're on mute. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So does that mean they're ready to break ground? Well, I think the next item on the agenda is for them to present some, some of their submittals materials, some materials, some middles and there's a few changes to the plans and they could answer that. We could pull, I'll pull the men actually right now. If anyone's here for Amherst media, you could raise your hand. And we can make you a panelist. While that's happening, Nate, is there a reason to make this two separate motions? Also, there is. There is. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So I emailed with Nancy and this. So I think the first order of business is really this request for a second 90 day extension. And the second point of discussion topic on the agenda is review of, you know, possible changes to the building and the submittals. And so there's really just two separate items to discuss and vote on. Okay. Well, I'll move that. We grant us a second 90 day extension to the previously issued certificate of appropriateness. So the project on whatever it is on high street. I second discussion. Main street. Is there a limit of how many extensions we give or is that just up to us? Yeah, there's no limits up to the commission. So I think, you know, in this case, they have, you know, they are trying to move things forward. It could be right that. An applicant. You know, a year goes by and then you might issue an extension or two. And really there's no. Advancement to the plans, right? They don't come back to speak to town or something. And then the recommendation might be to not issue an extension. So yeah, I mean, it's kind of a case by case, but. Thank you. Other questions. Well, let's move to a vote then on the extension. Elizabeth. Hi. Hi. Rita. Yes. Hi, Nicole. Yes. Yeah. Bruce. Yes. Yes. And I agree too. So they, we have granted them then the extension and let's move to the second part of this name. Sure. Chris, you're here as he's, he's the architect with Amherst media. I don't know if you want to walk through. I'll get things pulled up actually so we can share the screen. And so, let's see. So, you know, Amherst media is, they returned previously. To review a few changes is. Making, but I guess it's a few years ago. And according to the certificate, the commission. Can review the changes to determine if they're. In keeping with the certificate or if they're substantial enough to. Require a new hearing. And then part of the certificate also asked that Amherst media returned to the commission to review. Specific information before building permit is issued. So. You know, what the say window trim and. Specifications for the shingles and windows would be. And so that's what they're here to do today. You know, right now at this discussion. And I sent an email. This afternoon. You know, there, I had. Found that they're on the, one of the plans look like there could be some vents. You know, louvers on the exterior of the facade that weren't on the plans. And it was determined that those won't actually. Be necessary. So there's already louver shown on the plans that were approved. Yeah. So that was really the changes where what we're noted before is just the selection of a gutter profile. And then the change to windows. On the front facing main street. Would you like me to present? Sure. Okay. Good. My voice. You hear my voice, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the main change was the fact that. The original south central pediment. The ground plan that had three single double hog windows. And one of them falls right in a closet. And so what we did was to. Basically. Make what are called mold when you put two double hunks together. It's called a mold window. And the east and west ends of the south elevation to have that. So we just created two more in the middle. That leave the very central part of the. Central pediment elevation. As clabberts so that we could have a double set in each room. But not in the closet. That's the only change. The other. Well. Do I want to go with the second change? Let me just share my screen. My screen. Quickly. Yeah. So it would help to see this. Yeah. So what was approved. This is visible was. In this. You know, so here are the double hunks on the east and west, but in this central. Pediment that was described, there's three. Three individual windows. And what's being proposed is. You know, it's highlighted here now as two double hung windows. No. The eight, the round window. I don't know how it got erased, but there's supposed to be a round window above that. Right. It's in my drawing and it's also in the cover. So I just got a. Yeah. And I think it was just light enough that I didn't get. Scanned well, but right. So the really, I mean. What I highlighted what would, would have been what is the change? Yeah. Yeah. Do you have my drawing that I sent with the full set? It might look better. I do have the full set. I just have to scroll. Through the architectural. Yeah. Scroll through and find it. Those are all structural. There we go. Yeah. Actually, why don't we stay on these color. So you can see in the central image there. Well, yeah. The middle image. There's a pair. There's a mold or a pair. Double hung on each end what East and West. So now it'll be. East and West plus two more in the middle. And then if you go to the elevation, which is four pages away. So you have to blow it up. And here we are right there. Yeah. There. So it'll be one, two, three, four mold sets. As the only change to avoid the window in the closet. Yeah. So basically just the changes that where we had three single windows, we now have two pairs. Yes, correct. Do I have questions from the committee or comment? I have a question. About the, the look of it. I was thinking that I don't know anything about your closet, but that the three. Sort of looked very symmetrical, you know, in keeping with the neoclassical design. But I, one, I'm not sure about the double, the two doubles and the general appearance of that. Does anyone have a, else have a thought on that? Because that is your main facade, right? That is the main thing that's like front and center. Right. Correct. It doesn't, I didn't find it significantly different, I guess. I can see what you're saying. I think others with the, but it's, it's with, with the overall complexity of the building, it doesn't seem to me to be unreasonably at odds with the general intention or the general presentation. But, you know, I'm. Chris, when you were thinking, considering this, did you have another option? Did, did something else come to mind besides two doubles? There really wasn't another opt. I mean, you could come up with other options, but this seemed to be the only way to avoid the window in the middle of the, of the wall where it would put it in the closet. I think having pairs of double hunks is in keeping with the other, you know, the two ends of the building, which blanket. So you basically have a rhythm of four mold double hunks. And so it just seemed more appropriate. Can we see how it was before? It was right. Yeah, right there. Yeah, I see the problem, but it does look less symmetrical. It is kind of strange. I mean, it's the symmetry is this, it's still, it's still symmetrical. We haven't changed the symmetry is, it's the design, but we haven't made it asymmetrical. It's still symmetrical. It may be symmetrical, but it's a completely different aesthetic feeling. Yes, but I think, I don't think it's our job to, I mean, I'm thinking about how would I have felt if the original had have had two paired double hunks instead of three singles. And I, I don't, I don't think at the time I would have cared one way or the other. So I'm basically thinking about how I would have thought, Golly, four years ago when we last looked at this seriously. I think you, we have to give you the possibility of not having the window in the closet. That's for sure. If you, can you move those double hunn windows a little bit more to this center? I don't know, somehow it's, I agree. I think that's possible. So in other words, maybe what's, what's going on in our mind is that the amount of clabbered space is too big between the windows. So in closer together, then there'd be more of a balance of clabbered clabbered panels. Or maybe bigger windows. Well, the same size, I think is more appropriate. But yeah, I like, I like that idea because with a little round window at the top and moving in together, then maybe that first facade somehow just as that is going to look more balanced. Yeah, you know, I agree with you. And when I drew it, it, it, I kind of like, it's not centered in the room so they were brought together, but it probably should come together a little bit more. I don't want to make that a condition. And, but to define it, I would say, probably no more than 12 inches for each one to come for the center. Can I, can I ask what is probably a really stupid question. What's wrong. I have windows that go into my closet. Why can't there be like a window in the closet, just the shape. Is there a reason why you can't have a window in the closet? Well, according to Jim, let's go the director, he said that it would make it very difficult for what's going on in that room with equipment. And it makes, and the storage is already limited, so it makes the closet smaller. And it also makes it difficult for the setup of their computers and, and desks. So it was not, he did not want to, he was, he did not want to see that happen. So I just had a quick question in this plan, it shows that there's the clock. It's like there's like an elbow by the window in the middle here but not necessarily a closet is that is this floor plan changed I guess I'm the closet. The closet is bigger. It would be better. Okay. But you could block out the window. I mean, that's a common thing so that it doesn't function as a window from the inside but it provides you with the symmetry on the outside, or the look then your classical look on the outside. You do, you do want light on the inside to you want this to be a nice space to be, you know, working in, we have to sort of consider that this has to be a really wonderful working space inside and to have a window that's just blacked out is a shame. I think as much light as you can get into a building is what I think is great. Yeah, I think blocked out windows are, they look like a mistake because they are a mistake. The only time that I've seen them where has any kind of appropriateness is like you'll see on the side of a building where a staircase crosses over a window. Still that window with clappards, because the staircase would be there. But it doesn't. You know, I don't think it's a preferred design direction. It was common 300 years ago in England when they had window taxes. They would paint a window on because it wasn't taxed. But I don't think where we've evolved since then. And then just a quick question right now looks like the spacing from the window to the, you know, exterior edge is similar to what's over on the other side. Yeah, that might just be, you know, I don't know how accurate that is so you know I just want to make sure that if we bring these to toward the center that we're not throwing off you know these other proportions right. Right. So I'm saying like this distance, you know, this distance, this distance and this distance are they, I'm not sure they're equal right now. But I think you get to choose the currently the the spacing is more consistent with the one on the, on the west side, which is to say the left side, but what Chris, what Tristan and others are suggesting I think is it more likely matches the one on the side. Right side. Yeah, I think bringing them slightly together, you know, six to 12 inches more, which would reduce them center wall by, you know, a foot to two feet, which is be, you know, significant amount I wouldn't think you'd want to do it more than that. Maybe we just say match the, the clabbered spacing on the eastern side rather than the western side. That way, that way we could, that's an easy way of expressing it and you could probably tell us from the dimension plans. Whether that was a foot because it looks like it might be about a foot. Okay, that sounds good. I think if you bring those, if you lessen that a clever space in the middle to and move them more to the center. Actually, it'll look better with that whole facade of windows next to it to I think it'll be just an aesthetic improvement. You know, I think somehow the eye doesn't necessarily to be beautiful it doesn't necessarily have to have symmetry as we know from, you know, Greeks, sometimes not being symmetrical has more aesthetic value. So, yeah, I would, I would approve it. Just as you said, to bring them more close together and and as you design it you'll, I think you'll get a good feel for what's going to really look nice. Do I have a motion to approve this with those windows moved closer to each other. I think this is another he has more changes. Steve has has had his hand up I just want to make sure. That was from earlier comment. Steve, Steve, Steve hasn't meant to lower his hand. My mistake, sorry. Nate were there other changes that we need to be talking about first. I'll just. I'm sorry I'm just gonna scroll. So I had also noted in the mechanical plans they showed that there could be, you know, event here on this side and then event facing Gray Street and not maybe making use of these louvers that were shown on the plans. And the email today, what the email today was, you know, from Tris was saying no that the they can use these louvers that were shown here so they don't have to put a new one facing Main Street or facing Gray Street. And so, I think the only other change that was noted was the profile of the gutters. You know, which is. There also was Nate the bathroom vent. The bathroom vent. You could remove. There's one approved on the front we could get rid of that and put it in the roof or in the soffit. And so that's a. Yeah, see that shows it in the roof. And it could go into the soffit. Right. And so here's the. Right vent there and then what is shown is on the plans we're looking at earlier were better. Yeah, so here's, you know, there's already event shown up in the soffit. And so it could just be that it follows, you know, is located somewhere along that band and not on the roof. I think if we got rid of it completely on the band, so you don't see it at all, would be better to come out the soffit or on the roof. Oh, the software. Right. Okay. If you want to come out the soffit. Yes, I agree. I think it. It looks awkward on that. Yeah, I don't know what the term would be. Yeah. Yep. Other comments. Do we have a motion. And then hold on just as we're talking about it. Sorry, there's a lot of information here for materials. Just just so that we're. Everyone can see what we've, what they've. There's a PDF I put together with a series of specs. It was. Yeah, there's just so many, so much information here. Let me. This isn't it. Sorry, here it is. Yes. Okay, so starting on this one here. This is shows the elevation. And then the colors. It notes the railing. Okay, this, this was a request for the railing so that the railing is the same as approved. But it would be in a dark sort of a gray color. And the sign was also mentioned in that that's not changed that's shown there. And I thought maybe to use the background color similar to the upper part the freeze up above. So it contrasts more with the stones of the sign. And then what else if you switch to the next image. Okay, there's the roof shingle proposed. It's a it's a regular asphalt shingle. They color it to create a shadow effect so it looks like a thicker slate. It's kind of like just gives more texture and feeling to the roof rather than just a solid gray coat of paint. That's what we propose. And then the next. Okay, this is this is good here. This talks about the gutter all this shows if you look in the bottom left you'll see the crown gutter a K type of gutter is a fake crown gutter. That's a mitered corner, but on the right it's cut off blunt and you can see up above you can see what a blunt cut off crown gutter looks like. I personally hate them. They're fake. They're inappropriate. They're everywhere. And so what I'm proposing is a real crown would and then a round gutter hanging below it. I know when I did the preservation of his Thorpe North Hampton Parsons house that had a crown and then it had a wooden gutter hanging below. It's kind of an oval was kind of it was made out of wood but but so anyway, and I checked in perfectly round galvanized or painted gutters are the most appropriate for historic buildings. So this doesn't show what we're proposing at this just showed the difference between a mitered K type gutter on the left and then the unfortunate looking chopped off and crown. I don't want to use and and Gillins drawings he had it very rough sketches and it was not clear whether. I don't think he was mattering the crown gutters so our drawings are going to show the the or they do show the crown molding and around gutter hanging below. And in the detail of the door, the main front door, which is all glass, it's in the elevations the same. Today I sent a color photograph which was missing in this set, but it looks exactly like the elevation. And then the windows are also Marvin. Double hung single one over one double hung windows. We're going to be using a single hung window, because a single on window looks identical to a double hung. It's just that it's more environmentally efficient. And the only reason you don't want single hung windows is when there are an upper stories, it's harder to clean the window, but on the ground level. The problem cleaning is much better to go with the efficient single home. But again looks just like the elevation and that that's a single on detail. And that's the inside of it. I think that's the end of the sheet. Yeah, oh that's okay. And you did show that separate one was a door. Yeah, I mean the door so the door is shown here. It's like he said it's never it hasn't changed is just that they provided you know an image of what it would look like. And you did show the gutters and one one of these plan sets I guess I just need to say one that starts out with the color image. But that's set if you go further in. Well to the elevation being okay no details there we go. Yes I hear there it is. Yeah, so it's a round gutter hung below a true crown. Oops. Sorry I zoomed in there we go. There you go. Elizabeth. I have a few questions so the gutter is four inches. Correct. I think on most historic buildings now they're recommending six inches. I don't know what it's like for new construction. That's four inch radius should be eight inch in diameter. So the 18 or seven inches is what you've got on the bottom there. Yeah. I guess I guess I'm asking is given more frequent rainstorms and all and you know need to move the water away from the building if you think that's sufficient. Yeah I think it is a number of downspouts that would affect the ability to not overflow. If I can interrupt you I think that when we're talking about heavy rains. If you have really heavy rains it's not the size of the gutter, at least from a capacity point of view it's the how far up from the building it comes because if you get a torrential rain it will probably run past the... Well I'm not sure about that. I don't know what I'm talking about. In a metal roof you'd be correct it would slide off but I think in a textured shingle roof it would run slower. Another thing which I think is a good idea in any gutter system is to leave the end cap off. What happens is if you get leaves filling your downspout then the water can run right out the end like a scupper and it'll blow those leaves out. The end cap in it so if the water that's coming to the downspout it comes to the downspout before it gets to the end cap. It's just a comment. Advice to prevent clogging of drains. Probably outside our province it might be something that other... I mean maybe the conservation commission who don't actually have an interest in this parcel so I guess not them but I think that's beyond our purview. But interesting to hear nonetheless. Yes, yes absolutely. I had a question about the colors and how you chose those. They weren't specified. There's stone walls, stone sign, the slate gray roof. I just thought versions of earthy stone color was appropriate. Rather than bringing in some other hue. I mean during the hearing they mentioned gray tones or light tones. I mean the district doesn't actually regulate color. I guess we could have recommendations but it couldn't be a condition or anything. Are we ready for a motion to... I guess the motion would be that the changes as presented are acceptable and not determined to... are determined to be de minimis or approved and determined to be de minimis. If we're not generating. But I think if we just say that they're de minimis that's all we need to say, right? Right, I think we could add to it that the submittals are also in accordance with the certificate or... Right, so for instance if the roof all of a sudden the roof shingle where we maybe we just fold it all in is also de minimis, right? Or something but if we thought that the submittal was inappropriate we could comment on that now. Do we need to mention the closing the gap between those two double hung windows? Yes. Do we have a second for that motion? I second. Thank you. And this motion before we move to the... Bruce? Just a question for Nate. You have a motion... I mean what I... What I moved was hardly... Hardly literal. And I didn't actually say the... That was a condition so... But we do. Do you... Are you comfortable with the way in which the motion has been expressed that involves the... The de minimisness of the change that the... That the... That the... The changes that the change to the window configuration as proposed is acceptable on condition that the... Spacing is adjusted according as discussed. And I think that's... And I think that the submittals are in accordance with the certificate. So I think the motion... Those three things. Yeah, the motion can be amended for that. I'd be comfortable with that. Yeah. Okay. So that will therefore be my motion. And I... Whoever seconded it is that... Is that... Okay. We seem to be okay. Any more commentary before we move to the vote? Okay. Elizabeth? Aye. Karen? Aye. Pita? Aye. Nicole? Yes. Steve? Yes. Bruce? Yep. And I also vote yes. So we are granting you a certificate of appropriateness with de minimis changes, and we will be moving those two double hungs a little bit closer together. Yeah, just to clarify, I know certificate, but we'll just have a meeting summary. It'll be attached to the certificate. And so then that'll be sent out. Okay. Thank you very much, Trish, for coming to the meeting and explaining all of these things. So clearly to all of us. Thanks, Trish. The things you submitted beforehand. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good to see you, Trish. You're looking great. Hey, I'm into an 80 in a couple of days, so. I got to hang in there. They say, our guys never retire, right? You didn't retire. Look what you're doing. I'm just being a copter again. I'm building habitat houses. Good. Good for you. Thank. This brings us to the discussion of East amers as a potential historic district. And I think Steve wanted to talk about the drop box as part of this. Nate, can you pull that up? I know that people are sick of me talking about Dropbox, but I think you'll see once you pull it up why it's gonna be very useful. Steve, I wanna thank you for all your work in making it possible for us to use this Dropbox. Oh yeah, no, actually that's the first thing I should report is that at Nate's suggestion I actually contacted the Department of Open Meetings and they made a ruling that it was okay to use Dropbox. So that's why we can use Dropbox. Now, Nate, can you scroll down this 92 files that I've been working on? Oh my gosh. So anyway, this is what I've been doing for the past month or so. If you go to Form B template at the bottom, I'm just gonna explain what a Form B is. So anyway, these are inventory forms and most of them, they exist already for these properties but most of them haven't been done in 50 years and they're handwritten. So what I've done in the past month is I've been going one by one and retyping what was handwritten and then also adding what was in the National Registry inventory application. So Nate, if you go to 664 Main Street, I'll show you a complete, okay, it's fine, it's fine. Just go to 664 Main Street. I did all of them, so I created sheets for all. So anyway, this is, Nate, if you can scroll down, this is like a somewhat completed one. There's a picture and then you keep going down and it has information, historic name. Go back up a little bit, Nate, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, so I typed all this over again. So you see it has like the style, the historic name, the use, if there's been any alterations, if you scroll down a little bit, now you'll see. Can actually, Nate, I wanted to ask you about that. I went by the Comfy Stevens house and it's actually just in fair condition and I know that they got CPA money. Have they used that money yet to do whatever they're supposed to do? They've done some work on the roof, but the rest hasn't. And so there's been, they actually haven't fully accepted the CPA monies yet. So some discussions internally, I guess, with the condominium association. Yeah, okay. Anyway, if you scroll down a little bit more, you'll see that then there's an architectural section, description. This is, then you go down and there's a historic narrative and then one keep going and then a bibliography. So, okay, so now that's what they should look like except at the top, if you go back to the top, Nate, you'll see that they're supposed to be a map there. So we need to do this for approximately 40 properties. Some of them are pretty much done. Nate, if you go to 695, so this is like what a lot of them are like, you know, it just doesn't look like, so you don't think I did so much work. This is what probably 10 or 15 of them are, there's nothing there. So keep going down. Okay, so now I'm going to 675 Main Street, please. Now, Nate, this is why I took pictures of every single property and I try to insert, put the picture here and no matter what I do, it's sideways. So I'm gonna ask you if you can insert the pictures because I don't know how to do it. That's fine. The pictures there and also the maps. What's amazing is for about 10 of the properties, somebody hired some architects. Was it the Pioneer Valley Authority that did it? Or if you keep going down, and these are amazing. I mean, look at all that on the bottom. And there's about five or six of these that are pretty much done. They were done by Ruth, by Jeffrey Melish, and Gabrielle Janello, TTL Architects in September 2014. I don't know who hired them. Yeah, the town did. So we had received a grant from Mass Historic and the Inventory Outbuildings in certain buildings. And so, they're actually an architecture firm. I think they're out of Portland, Maine. They did a great job for however. I wish we could hire them, but that's gonna lead me to next one. So anyway, so what I'm gonna make is now that I've transcribed, some of these are almost done. There's probably five or six that are almost done. There's probably, there's a lot of architectural description in the National Inventory thing, so I've been retyping those on. So they're all in different various stages of completion. I'm gonna do a spreadsheet showing what's been done. I recruited a master's student in architecture from UMass, who, Colleen Tully, who finally said that she would devote one to two hours a week. And she said, I sent her a list and she said she would do the architectural descriptions. So hopefully that will pan out. The big problem is going to be the historical significant section. And I wanna show you something I've got. Elizabeth, you'll get, I got a, can you see this? Everyone? Elizabeth, I bought myself my own carpenter and warhouse. Oh, okay. I've got it too, yeah. Yeah, anyway, so what we need, and Elizabeth, this is where I'm hopefully leaning on you, I just don't have the skills. I mean, I'm gonna go to the carpenter and warhouse and cross-index. Like for instance, there's one house, General Mattoon, who is a Civil War hero. I mean, an evolutionary war hero. Revolution, yeah. So I got his, I cut and pasted his Wikipedia entry and all that stuff. And I'll go through carpenter and warhouse, but we need to divvy up the properties and do the historical significance sections. Now, what I could do is, you know, I was thinking about applying for a CPA grant and trying to pay like someone like Eddie Startup to do it. But the thing is, we wouldn't get that money until next July 1st. So the question is, and the CPA grant application, which I'm happy to do, is due next month. Should I go ahead and do it? Or do you think we can do the historical significance ourselves for these 30-some property, or probably 20 properties? I realize it's a delay, but I think it would be important to have somebody, I just know Eddie Startup by reputation, is because it's not just individual houses you're looking at, you're looking at the whole way that community was settled. Well, actually, that stuff's already been done. If you look at the National Inventory, Yeah, that's true. Yeah, they have a, in fact, I would use that as the introduction for our application, because it basically says why they chose these 40-some properties, it gives a history, it's pretty comprehensive. So in terms of the macro thing, I actually think that we have that done is the actual individual houses that need to be done. Does anyone feel want to take a whack at some of these houses? Or should we wait and just do the best we can and see if we can get it cramped and hire someone down the line, or I need some guidance on that? I agree. I was wondering whether, I mean, I'm not quite sure what historical significance means. And I guess I wonder whether people who write these things really know whether it would just do it from their personal point of view. I mean, it seems to be a somewhat subjective, somewhat, I'm saying. But I mean, we can... So anyway, what I was thinking is that, Steve, since you've done so much of this, it would seem that a grant for to engage somebody like Hetty, I'm not sure, or Greg Farmer is a fellow that I've used a lot in the past for historic work. But I'm not sure. Yes, I guess. But some kind of architectural historian. If we could get somebody who would be willing to comment on thinking, since you've done all this work, you could more or less set the exhibits up around the room. If we had a room with a lot of pinboards up and you put the 30 buildings up and we look at the whole thing together. And there's a small group of people with a consultant and so forth. Whether we could do it, whether it could be done that way or does this really involve just a book research and just looking at each building and then diving into some kind of a... I don't know how it's done. I'm sorry to interrupt. What happened last time is we had a great staff. We had Maureen Adams. We had Ed Wilford, who I've tried to contact, but he kind of disappeared. He's like the town historian and Susanna Thaving. And they did, I transcribed, I did the same thing for like about 150 of these houses. And then they would go on. Well, the great thing about Dropbox is everyone can go on at their own pace and do their own section. You guys all have access to that file now that you can just go on it whenever you want. So we basically, at the end, we hired a grad student, the MuMass, and he wrote the significant section, but the actual individual research for the houses was done by volunteers. And most of it is done, it's so tedious. They go to like the Fort House in Northampton and you literally see a record of who owned the house at the beginning and you look at the deed and Ed Wilford's a master at this. There's only little leaded coatings, which are really obscure. And then you can start the research and see the people who actually own the houses and what they did. So that, it's really tedious. And I was hoping that Elizabeth would want here to do some of it because she's had such a, I mean, you've done this so much in your past. I mean, not to do all of it, but divvy it up. But are we, or we can wait, it's all in place now. I'd say it's about one third done and get a, get a grant for $7,500 and hire someone like Hedy who, this is like second nature for her. I just hate to ask her to do it for nothing. I'm trying. No, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I was gonna just quickly, I was gonna share a screen, yes. So Steve's right. Some of it's, you know, you're doing like a title chain all the way back. So you can see the bibliography here. And then, you know, doing like searching through tax records, you know, property search. And then things, whether it's old maps or, you know, US census or town data. So town records have been scanned. So, you know, if you find that the house was owned or built by someone, then it's like, you know, researching that a little bit to determine, you know, how do you tie it all together? So it often reads like a, you know, chronological history, especially during say the period of significance. And then, you know, what, you know, where the families or builders or what was the house associated with any events or movements, you know, whether it was, you know. So the architectural description, right? I mean, that's great. See if you found someone, you know, that can just be, you know, someone who's adept at that can write that without having to know the history of the house. But then it's this historical narrative. I was in this grad student, Pauline, who's really nice. She said that she would do it. And I gave her, I gave her all the houses that needed architectural description on Main Street. There's some more on South East Street and North East Street, you know, which if maybe, I know Bruce is overextended, but if Bruce ever wanted to do a couple of them, you know, do them at your leisure, you know, one a week would make a huge, they only have to be a paragraph or two and one a week would make a huge dent. But like I said, you can go on Dropbox now and you can, you know, at your leisure, type in the thing yourself. I have a code if you go back, you can go back to the Conky Stevens house, which is 664 Main Street. And I have a rough code. The thing is, Steve, when I was in architecture school in Melbourne, we had a very intensive period in my fourth year where the whole, we all were taught this as far as their history and architecture, Victorian architecture and Edwardian architecture of the Melbourne was concerned and all the sources and all this kind of stuff. But it's different here. And so I kind of know what it feels like to do this work, but I also know that I'm out of my depth here because I haven't been trained to function here the way I have been to function in Australia. So I could choose to train myself, but that's the problem. I'm not sure whether I would have time to do that. You can do whatever you, because we have Dropbox now and you can do that at your leisure, you know, hopefully Colleen, you know, will be able to do this. And I've literally interviewed four other architects trying to get them to do it. And she's the only one that would say that would do it. Well, I hope so. I mean, I just don't feel it's, well, what I'm good at these days is a number of things actually, but I don't include this in the list of things that I'm good at. So that's the problem. And I don't know, I mean, I'd love to be able to do it and because I'm an architect, you think that I'm able to do it, but I was not trained here, you see. Right, you're the housewife. Look, I'm not putting any pressure on you. What I'm saying is right now it's up and running. There's a form B that's been created for every property, there's pictures. Actually it's a resource. The handbook is up there too. The National Registry is up there in both PDF and Word document form. Well, let me have a look at it and see. I mean, maybe it's not as complicated or as involved as I'm thinking it is. Okay. All right, Elizabeth. Yeah, I'm sorry. I would think a way to approach it would be to have a, if we can, a kind of a workshop where we can start to share the resources and explain what each of them is good for and how to proceed to other ones. Like for example, architectural style is just one small piece, but then you want to research the people. You want to use all those other types of online sources for that. And you probably have city directories and all that kind of stuff. So I don't know who the current person in the Jones special collections is right now, but that would be a great place to start because their resources are really amazing for understanding the people. And then I would think too, yes, that historical background of how the village was created of East Amherst, but there are layers after that. And each layer, their neighborhoods, it's a living thing. And so I would think to try to make the case that this is an important bona fide historic district that you want to work and talk about how it's changed over time and how it's functioned over time. So I think that's important to do all of it. So I think we should just get started with that kind of thing. And I think what generally happens is questions pop up. Things happen, things happen part of our discussion and just makes it much richer. So if we could work together like that. We did that in your, I mean, I went to your exhibit the other day and the way you documented the different areas of Northampton was amazing. So you could do the same thing for this little neighborhood. That only took a year and a half. Yeah, well, anyway, there's no race to do this. What I'm saying is we now have the infrastructure to get it up and running. And I'm gonna do, I'm gonna start going through Moorhouse. Carpenter Moorhouse seems to be the resource that people quote. So I'm gonna start going through the houses and just jotting down notes. But I urge you guys to like, just look at these different points. You know, like I said, some of them are almost done. Some of them are pretty much done. The ones that the architects that were hired by the town, those are done. They just need the maps and some more photographs. But they're all in different stages. So I just urge everyone to take a look and start to do what they can. At least until our next meeting. Yeah, and remember Carpenter Moorhouse is one source. I mean, it's very good, but and often quoted and sometimes the often quoted ones are just often quoted and may not be the best. So. Okay, I defer to your expertise, ladies. All right, that's my report. Well, Steve, thank you from all of us for this tremendous amount of work. It really set the stage for all of the next work that we're all gonna have to participate in. And we can think about, yeah, how to go about that. So I think I'm gonna go ahead and fill out the CPA application, even though it's a year from now, you know, what do you guys think? Should I just go? And I guess we could, we don't use it. We could always return the money. Is that right? Yeah, I think declining money would be a better position than wanting money. Okay, then that's gonna be my next thing. I'm gonna fill out the CPA application. A meeting is still going on. I think it'll run another 10. I think that's a good idea. And let's see where we get from there. I'm gonna, once I get past my COVID, try to talk to some people at Amherst College who are also involved in interesting Amherst history. So I can see if I can find anybody who we could interest in participating. Before I actually steal the floor, does everyone know how to access to get to the Dropbox account now and do? Should I also, I could send an email out again. Is that? Yeah, I think it's already being sent out. So I'm just looking at my Dropbox and I think I have East Amherst. And when I look at East Amherst, it's under the East Amherst files. So if you look on that, there's 92 files. Yep, Bellamy. Okay, great. I mean, I will say, I think the head of special collections has been vacant, that position at the library for a bit. So that is a little bit of a gap in terms of that knowledge. So I think we still can use special collections, but if someone's really familiar with it, it'll just be faster. They could really help us direct us where to go and what resources to use. So I think special collections has a lot. Things are online. I know that when the architects did it back in 14, Steve, they had accounts with Ancestry.com or different websites to be able to look into things. So I don't know if the library has access to those, but that makes doing the research a lot easier if you can access certain websites. All right, Bruce. What I know, I think I know about Dropbox is that I don't know what the size of the accumulated files in that Dropbox are, Steve. But if they're big, it may be that I have a purchased account for Dropbox and so that means I can access quite a large body of data. But if folks that don't have that may be limited. I know, for example, when I was with the NACF which uses Dropbox, I separated the NACF files into one file which is where all of the bulk data and everything's reposes. And then I have a current folder which is what I share on Dropbox. So that people who don't have purchased accounts who are just using the pre-account can access it because I only put the minutes for the current year, for example, in there and things like that. So I don't know what the, so I guess my long-winded point here is, well, no, that doesn't matter. My experience is that us as individuals will be limited what we can access if we are using the free, the available app, so to speak. So if you can't get in or if you can't see something, it could be due to the fact that you haven't purchased the larger entitlement. So I mean, I have, yeah, right now, I mean, this is a two gig account that this folder's in is only 178 mags are used. So, you know, there's much of this is still unused. So I think that, you know, if it seems like we're reaching the capacity of the online folder, I can manage that with IT, I could try to figure that out. So I think right now we have plenty of capacity on the online storage to keep uploading information. Yeah, no, like I said, we use this for the north, for the Lincoln North Prospect Sunset one, which was over 200 properties and everybody could access it and we didn't have any problems with capacity. Okay, sounds like my concern is smooth. Good, I'm glad about that. Okay. I also have a meeting I'm supposed to be at about 10 minutes ago. I'm just wondering, I called them and said, I'm gonna be a little late, but how much more do we have to go? We have one other item that would be useful to try to move along on if we can. And that's the amending the bylaw to include the review of parking lots and other structures. Do you want to move to that at this point? Or is that too big a conversation? It could be too big. I don't have much to share. I just wanna go back to Steve. Would you, you know, I think I would like the commission to vote, to like, you know, authorize Steve and say staff and the chair to write the CPA proposal. We have a dollar amount, maybe up to 15,000. I mean, I don't know what you're thinking, Steve, but we could... Last time we did it for 5,000 and I would do it for 7,500, I think. A lot of this is done in the meantime. I'll move that the authorized limit be 10,000. And everything else you said, Nate, that Steve and staff be authorized to, on behalf of the commission, to make a, prepare a CPA application. Should we condition that it is, we review it before it's submitted or are we comfortable just authorizing Steve and you to submit it on our behalf? I'm probably comfortable on the latter. The... How soon do you have to submit it? The proposals are due September 30th. And so I'm thinking we'd probably have a meeting in September, just as far as the next, one of the next orders of business, there is an application or two that will be submitted soon. So we'd have to meet, it could be later in the last third or fourth week of September, but we could have a, I think there's still time then for the commission to review it. I downloaded, on the Dropbox is the application, the blank application for the CPA grant and I will start filling it out and you can actually access it and look at what I'm writing and edit it or make suggestions with that as he leaves. Okay. I've submitted a lot of CPA applications, not so much for this sort of thing, but generally speaking, so I can, we can talk Steve if you choose. Okay. I'm going to start this week. Yeah. Because I'm going away next week, okay. Do we have a second for that? For Bruce's... Hi, second. Thank you, Nicole. Any other discussion before we vote? Okay, Bruce. Hi. Steve. Yes. Nicole. Yes. Karen. Yes. Elizabeth. Yes. Greta. And I also approve it. So you have our approval and our thanks for moving forward on this application. Yes, Steve. Very well done. Thank you very much. Thank you. Nate, can we have a brief conversation about the parking lots, adding the parking lots to the bylaw? Yeah, we were talking about this previously and I haven't, there hasn't been any necessarily changes, but I think that we can regulate the parking, we can't regulate the use, so we just have to be careful with that. I put in other structures. For instance, the way we define the bylaw right now, we define a structure as, you know, it can be other than a building, it can be these things, and then we exempt any structure that's at grade. And so one thing that we see often is like retention areas that have overflow pipes or other HVAC or other, sometimes kind of, you know, if it's utilities associated with the building, we consider a part of the building, but there can be standalone utilities and other things that could be considered a structure, say like overflow pipes or drainage structures. So, you know, even like holding tanks or things. And so my thought is, if we were gonna change the bylaw, we include parking, and then we also define structure to also be, you know, drainage or utility structures. Right now we're doing that because it's, I'd like to just, you know, have some clarifications in the bylaw. So, you know, that's all when I added that. I think, you know, what we're seeing more say on the planning board, for instance, is everyone's going all electric. They're trying to do storm water management all on site. And so we're just seeing different types of, what would be considered structure in the local historic district bylaw as happening. And so I just wanted to add some words in there just to clarify that. So it's not, you know, so future staff understands what we're doing. And it's also helpful for applicants to know that too. And then, you know, once we have some language, we can review it at the next meeting and figure out how to move that forward as a actual, and I was gonna say that town councils, the town attorney was also looking at the general bylaw. This is part of the general bylaws. And there's one section of the bylaw that I think we need to replace as well. And so we're just gonna wrap it all up into it. And I think there's a section of the bylaw that says that members are mandated. This is kind of funny. To stay on the commission after their terms expired until a new member has been appointed. And I actually don't think we can do that. I don't think we can say that. And so we... And of course, that's for sure. It's a pretty interesting idea. I think you can say encouraged. I know, I think we say actually required to remain on the commission. And so we have to change that. So anyways, I was gonna have these few changes be all kind of folded it together and sometime later this year. Okay, thank you for looking into that. Oh, great. Thanks for pursuing it. Yeah. All right. Do we have any unanticipated items? Public comment? There's one member of the public still here. Hilda, oh yeah, your hand is raised. All right, Hilda. Hilda, am I talking? Yep, this number of the public would like to be able to get the packets when you guys get it if it's possible because I had a hard time following up when you weren't showing anything on the screen. So can you add me to the list tonight? Sure, yeah. I mean, we put everything online. So it's also an online... I didn't find it. I looked for it. I didn't find it. All right. I can do that. Thank you. Okay. Shall we establish a next meeting date? Sure. I was looking at the week of September 18th. If that is good for folks. I'll be in Europe. But the problem with that is that Karen has already established a rather group of track record for attendance from anywhere on the planet. And I'm not sure I'm... Good. I'm not sure I'm up for that. We'll see. But anyway... I tried it once. I would not recommend it. So I might just miss the next meeting. I haven't missed a meeting since... Well, the one I forgot. No, that was somebody else's meeting, I think. I don't know. I'm pretty regular. So maybe I might get a missed one. So when is this September 18th? Is that what you're saying? Well, I'd recommend it that week or the following week. I don't know. I guess it's dependent on the availability of the commissioners. Yeah, on Monday the 18th, I've got to do a kid pickup. I don't normally do the Monday pickup. So that's going to be like smack in the middle of the meeting. I won't be available until about 315-330. Okay. What about the 25th? Is that better for everyone? For me? Yeah. That can't do it. No, that's Yom Kippur. Oh, is it? Yeah. Yeah, I was trying to turn on all my calendars. Yeah, I can't do it either. Would we try the 19th? Tuesday the 19th? I mean, I'm... Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, Tuesday the 19th I can do. I can do it. All right, that looks like it's good. So Tuesday the 19th at 3. Great. And will these meetings always be on Zoom? Yeah, I think for the foreseeable future, we're not going to go to hybrid format. That's really complicated. And so there may be some... The town manager's office may be putting out some information in the fall. But for now, for the next few months, it's over Zoom. Can I leave for my late appointment? Is that OK? You can just... I move that we adjourn. I second. Yep. Karin? Yes. Elizabeth? Yes. Rita? Yes. Steve? Yes. Nicole? Yes. OK, thank you, everyone, for coming. And especially Steve, for all of your work. Yeah, thank you, Steve. Thank you, Nancy. You know, it's actually exciting because we can actually get this one done. You know, it would be a big thing for the town. Deserves to happen. And I think the town will be happy, will do it. So it's really exciting, at least for me. So anyway. Yeah, thanks, Steve. OK, so I'll send the Dropbox email link out again just so it's on top of the inbox, so. Yeah, great. OK, thank you, Nate, for all your support. Oh, thanks. Thank you. Take care, everyone. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.