 Hello everyone, welcome to Mind Pump. In the first half of this episode, we talk about why it's important to get your blood tested, even if you're young and feel great. Why kids today are less likely to engage in risky behavior as well as other topics. In the second half of the show, we coach four live callers on questions such as, I'm cutting, but I'm still getting stronger. How is this even possible? I have limited time to train, so if I have to choose between sleep and priming, what should I prioritize? I'm getting gassed out because of the short rest periods in phase three of MAPS anabolic. What do you suggest I do to improve? And how can I focus on building my shoulders, going through the short MAPS 15 minutes workouts? Finally, we're posting more and more clips every day to our Mind Pump Clips channel. We've upped our frequency. And if you wanna get more information about losing fat, building muscle, or any other topic you want in an easy to search and easy to share format, go to Mind Pump Clips right here on YouTube. All right, enjoy the show. Most people get blood work when there's a problem, but there may actually be more value in getting blood work when you feel great. This gives you a baseline so you know what feeling good looks like with your blood work. Then if something goes wrong, you get a blood test, you can compare the two because there is a great individual variance from person to person when it comes to things like hormones in particular. Very logical. I love that advice. I mentioned on an earlier podcast that was something that Katrina's mom recommended to all of her kids. And at first I didn't think that was that important. I figured like, oh, if I feel bad, then I'll go check on my hormones then the doctors will tell me if it's good or bad. And obviously through my journey of hormone replacement therapy and watching my blood work, I'll say that what I learned was that there's such a huge range of what is considered normal or okay that you could waver from being at the top end of okay, move all the way down to the bottom end of okay. And a general practitioner will go, oh, you're fine. You know, you're not in any danger in this range, but you may be suffering from these symptoms of feeling terrible. Like, oh, I just don't have energy. I don't have the drive I used to have. Like my libido is down, but then I go get my blood work and the doctor says I'm okay. So then you're like, what the fuck? But had I known that I run at this level on the high end of normal, and I'm now at the low end of normal, which by the way could be a 50% reduction. Like you can't tell me that that's not a significant difference. And knowing that would be huge. Yeah, and what it does, it gives them, it would give them an accurate reference point because otherwise the reference point is based off of, yeah, a general sample. So they've actually done studies on this on, for example, on testosterone. And they found that, and the study was actually to see how much testosterone levels affect things like strength and muscle growth. So that was actual study was kind of cool. And what they found was that, and these were all men within a healthy range, okay? So it wasn't like they took people super low, super high. I was like, okay, we're all within a range of each other. But what they found was that the testosterone levels didn't have an impact on the muscle growth and strength. It was the androgen receptor density. Meaning, one person could have 30% lower testosterone levels, but because they have more androgen receptors, their testosterone is actually having exerting more of an effect. So what does this mean? Well, it means that if you don't have yourself as a reference point, then the best you could do is start to play around and start to guess. Well, I kind of feel good, I kind of don't. Like what's going on? This can also be true with nutrients. Like vitamin D levels, magnesium. If you look at any lab that you get from your doctor, whether it's nutrient levels, inflammatory markers, blood lipids, whatever, it's gonna have a range that's gonna say, here's what is considered normal, but that's so general. I think it's far more valuable to have a reference range of when you feel good. So if you feel great, now you have a snapshot of that. Then if something goes wrong, rather than going off this general lab, you can say, when I felt great, here's where I was. And this means also, by the way, because people sometimes think more is better, not necessarily, like more testosterone might not be better. More thyroid may not be better, even if it's all within range. More vitamin D levels may not be better. So you could go to the doctor and be like, man, I feel terrible. Doctors like, okay, let's do some tests. Then you compare it to your reference and you may actually be like, wow, I'm within range, but my magnesium's so high compared to how it was before and everything else seems similar. Maybe it's too much. You know, I had a client once that she was suffering, I'll never forget this. She was getting like these kind of neuropathic issues. She was like fingers tingling and all this other stuff. And she had done red and she talked to her doctor and they're like, oh, your vitamin B levels might be too low. So she was like supplementing, supplementing, supplementing. Finally, she found this other doctor who says, you're taking too much vitamin B or Bs and that might be what's causing it. She brought it down and then she found that she was okay. Now, had she had a reference, she might have been able to go and see, oh, it's so much higher than what it was when I felt good. So there's such a difference because it's not just nutrients, it's uptake of nutrients, it's cofactors, it's receptors that hormones attach to. It's also the ratio of hormones. For example, you may have high testosterone, estrogen may be in range, but the ratio of estrogen to testosterone is no longer ideal for you. So now you feel like you actually have low testosterone and in fact it's just the ratio. So having a reference is so valuable. I wish I had a reference when I was younger. I think that's a big misconception. The general public is like, if they see a deficiency, and one thing, especially with hormones, because it's so complex in terms of being able to get them all to be in perfect unison and balance, that just raising one if it's deficient is gonna like solve all the problems when in fact they also have to kind of figure out how the other ones interact with them. And then make sure it's the right dose and maybe it's bringing up a different hormone they didn't even consider. This is what's happening too with my wife. So it's like, it's interesting to see how they're being able to kind of manipulate it so it gets back to the optimal balance. Yeah, and so what happens is if you don't have a reference for yourself, then what they end up doing is they end up using this general reference and then it's a game of how do you feel, wait three more weeks? How do you feel, wait another 90 days? Let's try this, let's try that. When if you had a reference, you could very easily show your doctor, your practitioner and the doctor could be like, oh, let's try and match those, those levels that you had when you felt great. And now it's like the guesswork is gone. Now you've saved yourself, because I know like even a hormone like thyroid, which if you had to supplement with a hormone, thyroid is pretty good. I'm gonna say this for lack of better term, it's an easy fix, not easy, but it's an easy fix. But I know people who've had to go on thyroid and it's like a year process. But getting the dose right is a long process. Totally, totally long process. Well, isn't that one of the things that Courtney has been battling with, right? Yeah, she's been battling that and dipping to testosterone. And then two, finally figuring out she's a little bit estrogen dominant. And so it's like all those factors combined, they have to find, cause it took like a good year and a half or so just for the thyroid medication to really take effect and like find that right sweet spot. Well, I'm even on my third hormone clinic, by the time it's taking me this long of adjusting the days, the dosage, to monitoring the blood work every three to six months to really kind of like fine tune exactly where I think I feel the best. You know, it's cool about you bringing this up. And I know we haven't announced this on the podcast yet and we're not due to officially announce it, but to kind of forecast what's coming for the audience, which is really cool. And I love that we're doing this because our partners transcend with the hormone therapy is gonna start giving four free blood work for our audience a month. So that'll be one of the, when you hear us talk about, this is not one of those times, but since you brought this up, you reminded me of that. You will announce it when we get back. Yeah, this is something that we officially negotiated in the contract this year for our audience is that just straight four blood panels, basically free for our audience. And we'll figure out how we'll gather that or figure who the winner is every single month, but it's something that we wanna do consistently every month for the audience. Yeah, if you want more information on for yourself, you just go to mphormones.com and then we have experts on there that can work with you. But I wish I had a baseline for myself because otherwise you're going off of, like to give an example, another example, and I'll use just because this one I know the most about, right? By no means an expert in hormones or nutrients. I have some knowledge, but by no means I'm an expert, but just with testosterone, for example, let's say you go on testosterone replacement therapy because you've exhausted all the natural methods of trying to raise testosterone, whatever, and you're just in this place where you're like, okay, I'm gonna use exogenous testosterone. The process by which your body produces testosterone also produces other hormones, other pro hormones, DHEA, Pregnenolone, you have estrogen balance with it, estradiol, this free testosterone. So it's way more complex than just, here you go, here's your testosterone, let's raise it. And initially maybe, oh my God, I feel great. And after a few months or six months, you're like, well, I don't know if I'm feeling so good. And then they got to go back and look at all these other things. So when you have a baseline, oh my God, the value, it would be so great. I wish I could do that. I wish I could have gone to someone and said, oh, here's what it was when I felt pretty damn good. And then they're like, oh, cool. Now we have partners. Let's use some levers and get us back to that optimal balance. Well, think about it. Think about how individual your workouts are, like how your workouts, the most effective workouts you can do need to be individualized to you. Think about your diet, right? Think about your lifestyle. Now when we're talking about blood levels of hormones and, you know, nutrients and inflammatory marker, all that stuff, like it gets even more, it gets even more crazy and more individualized. So you could have two people and have their panels look identical and one of them can feel great and the other person can feel terrible. And then you're either, you're gonna play this game of, all right, well, let's mess with some stuff, wait a month, mess with some more stuff, wait a month. And yeah, it's kind of a long drawn out process. So. Aren't testosterone supplements one of the most profitable or the most sold supplements on the market? Not most sold, but definitely one of the most profitable. The margins on them are pretty. Is that true? Yeah. And for the most part too, they're kind of a waste of money, you know? Yeah, some of them work, but they work when you have low testosterone, like really low testosterone. And then there's also kind of this, like limited span of effect. So let's say you take a supplement like Ashwagandha or Tom Catalee, both of which have been shown to raise testosterone. Do you- It's a shelf to that. Yeah, do you continue to see and feel the effects a year after taking them? In my experience, no. In my experience, you don't. My experience, it's like 60, 90 days. And then after that, you kind of don't get the same effect anymore. And then you got to go off and then go back on type of deal. But I can definitely see the value of them in combination with things like lifestyle factors and other things. So I don't think they're not valuable, but the other thing too, is there's so many products out there that will improve the symptoms of low testosterone, but not actually raised testosterone. So like there was a very popular supplement back in the day for testosterone raising. It was called Tribulus Terrestris. That was the name of it. And it was always sold as a test booster. It doesn't raise testosterone, but what it does is it increases libido. So guys would take it and be like, oh my God, it's working. My testosterone's going up. It's like, no, you're just, you're getting horny. It's more horny. Yeah. You know? Well, I mean, that's what I experienced. For the listeners that have been listening for a long time, they may recall when I went through that process of trying to naturally raise my testosterone for, it was over a year. I mean, we were doing everything. Yeah. And you had me on all kinds of supplements, all the ones that you listed. And I remember that the initial feeling of like, oh bro, I think I'm feeling better. Like, and feeling like I was on the mend. And then feeling it kind of plateau and then kind of dip back down again. And yet I was still consistent with it and being like, oh man, that sucked. Like I felt a little bit better from it. But then after that, it kind of felt like it, like in it, and it really was maybe a couple months. It didn't last very long. Exactly. That feeling of it was getting better. And then of course, when I went, did the blood work, what I saw was it really hadn't moved the needle at all. Once I hit my mid-30s, obviously this is all hindsight, right? So it's clear now, but it wasn't so clear then. Once I hit my mid-30s, I was cycling supplements like that so often because I would feel so terrible. Now looking back and obviously realizing that I had like kind of permanently negatively affected my hormones because of some of the actions I took in my early 20s, which by the way, now the studies that show that if you take hormones in your late teens, early 20s, the odds that you'll have, that you'll struggle with low testosterone in your 40s is high. Yeah, it's really high. I mean, that's what I attribute mine to. I mean, I've openly talked about my steroid use in my early 20s and not only using it, but then using it so inappropriately, not knowing what the hell I'm doing and thinking that I was invincible then and then paying for it when I hit 30. And that's about when I felt it was 30. So I had done it in my early 20s and that off and on through my mid-20s and it wasn't until I hit 30 did I really start to feel. And you know what sucks about that? And I'm gonna be really honest, right? Because I went that route too, and I've talked about this in the early 2000s, they had all these over-the-counter designer steroids and so I think I felt better about it. It was the same thing though. And had you told me then, hey, if you do this, I mean, high chance you're gonna have to go onto testosterone replacement therapy in 20 years, I probably would have been like, all right, I'm gonna keep going. Oh, I will. You know what I mean? I don't know if I'm gonna stop. Oh, I knew the risks that I was taking. I knew, people ask that too a lot, right? So I've been asked that and I don't regret it. It's also given me the opportunity to communicate it because I'm not the only person that's done something stupid like that. And so I feel it's given me the opportunity and we have a platform that I can share my story and tell people to be cautious and be smart. But I don't regret it. And I know that if 40-year-old Wiser Me came back and tried to talk to 20-year-old Me. Even if it was you. Even if you appeared. Oh my God, it's me in the future. Yeah, it's like, all right, cool, bro. See you in 20 years. You look all right. Yeah, you look cool. You're doing fine. Yeah, you look like you're all right. You're doing all right. Today's giveaway is MAPS Split. This is a bodybuilder style MAPS program, advanced bodybuilder style MAPS program. Here's how you can win free access. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. Do all those things and if you win, we'll let you know in the comment section that you got free access to MAPS Split. Also, we have this huge sale going on right now. We created three workout bundles. So this is multiple workout programs. Each one giving you up to nine months of planned workouts. Nine months of exercise programming, perfectly scaled for three different types of people. Each one of them is discounted by $300 or more. So huge savings. Here's what the three bundles are. We have the new to weightlifting bundle. Great for those of you that are getting started. We have the body transformation bundle. This is great for those of you who are intermediate to advanced. And then we have the advanced bundle, the New Year Extreme Intensity Bundle. If you want to learn more or sign up, just click on the link at the top of the description below to do that. All right, here comes the show. How funny is that? Justin, your kids are getting to the teenage years. I have two kids, one at the beginning, teenage years, one that's deep in them. And you just realize how, and I think back to when I was that age, and I'd say up until my mid-20s. It's funny too, because research shows how the brain develops. It doesn't fully develop until you're like 25. When I think back, there's- That's a fact. You could not have told me. You could not have convinced me. I thought I knew. Like for sure, I know what I'm doing. I know what I'm talking about. So to be in that place now as a dad, how frustrating that is to be like- And they're so confident. You know nothing. Yeah. But yeah, that's just one of those things. And that's why it's so critical as they're growing up and they're getting exposed to all these things- Especially now. That could affect their overall development and stay with them. A long-lasting effect through the later years. It's like you gotta be conscious of all these things. I also, it also makes me think about, now you guys are ahead of me, all three of you are ahead of me with age, with kids and stuff. But that always makes me go to like, I can't, it's gonna be interesting when I'm faced with these types of situations and conversations with my son. Because, and I already see that. I already see so much of myself in him. It's gonna be hard to be actually mad. Because I mean, and I don't know if like you guys, but so when I see like a dad get really pissed off about his kid doing something, I'm just like, he's you asshole. You know, it's like, how can you be that mad? Like how can you be that mad? I'll tell you when you get mad. When you see them, when you see them- You see them mad at yourself too. You know, like you do get mad at yourself. Right. But I mean, so that's how I feel like I would be, I'd be more like that. Right. Oh damn it, that's a shitty ass trade of mine. You know what it is? You know what it is though? It's half of what I've experienced. I was talking to a friend of mine who's an expert, right, with, she works with teenagers quite a bit. And she said two things that like, I was like, oh yes, you're right. She said, number one, teenagers have this remarkable ability to know where your line is and to go across it. Right? So like, my line is way different than my parents' line. Like way different. Like if one of my kids was like, hey, I want to try, you know, pop, you know, or I want to drink at a party. Like that would have been my parents would have lost their mind. Oh yeah. So my line is like, okay. So I, so your kids will know, and this is like, and she told me that she goes, this is actually a part of- It's programmed in us, right? Yes. Evolutionary line. So they'll know what your line is, however far it is. And they'll go to that and pass it. So that's number one. And then number two- Okay, so to that point. So whatever your line is, bro. As well, to that point then is that, as a dad is the smart strategy to pretend like your line is much lower. You know what I'm saying? So like when my son does- Pot, what? How dare you? You know what I'm saying? But inside I'm like, ah, whatever. So maybe that's the move is to pretend your line is- Yeah, like way above that. Yeah. Well, it's funny we're talking about this cause I wasn't sure whether or not I was gonna bring it up on the show because it's like, you know, people like probably have different ideas whether or not this is like socially acceptable or not. But like, I mean, I've told you guys like I'll let like my kids like take a little sip of alcohol every now and then. So we were in Scotland and we went to this bar cause we were like waiting in between time before we had to kind of go to this different location where the tour guide was taking us and everybody's going to the bathroom and all this. And we're like there and we're like ordering a Scotch. And so one of the kids that was with us like dipped her finger in like her mom's Scotch and like drink was like, blah. You know, like had that reaction. I thought it was pretty funny. And so I brought Ethan over and to try mine. And then he, he tried to play it off like he was all like, you know, cool guys. Cause, you know, the other girl too. And by the way, she's like a little cutie and like she's about his age. And so he's like trying to, yeah. So he's like trying to impress her like the whole trip was pretty hilarious. But so he takes a sip and then he's like, yeah. Like pretends everything's okay. He's like, blah. I'm like, yes. Like that's the exact response I wanted. You know, like it's, that's such a taboo thing. Now that my grandpa, like, I mean, I had to smoke a whole cigar with him to where, to the point where I was sick. Yeah. My mom did the same thing with cigarettes with me. He just wanted to do that. So you know what? I bet it kept you away from cigars. I'd never touch like cigarettes, cigars. Like it's all way later. But you know what? The strategies in the back, back in the day were to traumatize a shit. Your kids, I swear to God, dude, everything. Okay, so even like, you know, like all those, what do you call them? Like fables and stuff. It's always about like, you're gonna die. Like all the, the shit out of the kids, if they leave and they go into the woods, they're gonna be eaten by some witch. So I was taught, I was, I was literally talking about this with a friend of mine. And I said, you know what? It makes sense though, because back then you had six kids. You couldn't pay attention to all of them because you had to go wash clothes by hand and go like make food and like dad is out, you know, you know, breaking rocks. So you're like, how do I keep these kids like safe? You scared the fuck, you traumatized them. You scared the living hell out of them. You just traumatized them. That was always the go-to. Bro, read the stories. Like all the Vikings the same thing. They have like stories about like, they're all like that. Lullabies where they would talk about throwing them in the crevice of a glacier. Hunts on the Gretel. Like the woman's fattening up the little children so she can eat them. That's the stories. And we've actually, it's horrifying. Oh, it's terrible. You know, ringing around the rosy, it's about the bubonic plague. Yeah. Yeah, she's about the black death. Yeah. You know, talking about kids, you just reminded me and Doug got to experience a little bit of this up in Truckee. You have, bro, you have to make an effort to get with Jason and his family just so you can hang out with his little daughter. Oh, great. Is she him? Bro, she is so him. She is a little female. Is that karma? It is, it is so, and it's so funny to watch him have to like navigate it and discipline her and like keep her. And it's like the whole time he's got these three daughters and they're all amazing. And the one though is like demands his constant attention and constantly having to corral her and so with that. And you can see it in him like the frustration and the pride at the same time. Like frustrated that he's constantly having to do this but also like the pride like, oh my God, she has told me. I mean, when she, I hadn't seen, I haven't seen her in a long time. How does she know? What'd you say, 10? Maybe yeah, 10 or 12, I'm not sure. Oh, now it's getting good then. Oh, bro. Now it's getting good. So I walk, she walks in and I hadn't even seen her yet. And I come and I'm still learning each of the daughters, which ones, which and everything like that, right? That we've only been around each other that much since they have all grown up. And so I come walking around. She comes out of the laundry room and she like steps right in front of me. She goes, so you're Adam. You're Adam. Just kind of smaller. She's like, so you're a little bit bigger than I thought you were. And then I just kind of say hi to her dad. I walk around and she does it again. Like later on, she cuts me off in the kitchen. She goes, we got a problem, bro? No. Like literally this is like my experience of like really hanging out with her for the first time. Like, oh, she's, and she just cuts right into conversations. Which is a problem. Oh, she is so. So she has this charisma. Oh, she's got the, I mean, the whole time she was hanging out with the older teenagers. She was, I mean, Brie and Max who are, you know, much older than she is. She wasn't even interested in the young kids or what anybody else was doing. She was hanging out with the teenagers the whole time. God has a way of. Mouthing off to them and everything. Like, she's like, she's so funny. That's hilarious. Yeah. The other thing that I learned about teenagers is that their brain, because of the way it's structured, is incapable of comprehending that they may perhaps feel completely different five years from now or a year from now and how they feel now. It's like they're all in Adderall. Yeah, dude. And how? All the confidence and none of the life experience yet. And then the other part of it that is, so they can't even, so for you to try and tell them like, you know, this might be a bad decision in five years or maybe whatever, like they can't even process that. And then to make it worse, however they feel now is how they think that they've always felt. So she gave me an example and I thought, oh my God, this is so true. So like, let's say. Is that because of their timeline? Because it's their brain structure. Right, right. And then what I mean by that though is like, because they've only been on earth for 15 years and only in five of that is like this, you know, young adulthood version of that, which seems like, I mean, that's one third of their life. So it's like a lifetime to them. No, it's literally this, Adam. And this is the part that tripped me out because I thought the same thing. It's exactly what I said. I said, oh, it's because they've only been on earth. She goes, no. Their brain is literally structured different. They don't have the capability. She goes, so for example, when you have a kid and they like a food, they love it, they eat it. And then all of a sudden you bring it out and they're like, I don't like this. And you go, what do you mean? You liked it before? No, I never liked it. If you've ever had that experience, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And you think that they're bullshitting you. You're like, get the hell out of here. So it was like two days ago, you were eating the hell out of this. They literally believe that how they feel now is how they've always felt and how they're always gonna feel. So talk about how frustrating that is. Well, the other thing that's frustrating is that, and I know some parents are really good about teaching their kids to respect elders, but you don't, at that age, and because I remember, you can't even fathom how much value there is in talking to a 50-year-old when you're 50. You have zero idea. Yeah, you have zero concept. You think they're stupid. Right, you think they are. You think they're old and they don't get it because, and you don't realize how much wisdom you gain in a decade. I mean, just think of ourselves where we're at 40-something years old and 50-something years old when you go, thinking of yourself 10 years ago, how much wisdom you gain. So different. Yeah, so different. And so if you had that perspective as a 15-year-old, you'd have a whole different attitude about every time, every chance you got to speak to somebody who was 40, 50, 60 years old because you go like, man, as smart as I think I am right now at 15, this guy or girl has four more decades on them than me. I just wanna hear what they have to say, which you don't think like that at all. I told my oldest exactly. I said, do you know what the difference is between like a kid who's maybe up to like 20-something and like when you're in your late 30s and 40s, you know what the difference is? This is the big difference. Once you hit the older ages or middle age, you know you don't know. You now realize, I don't know anything and I'm gonna know a lot more in 10 years. That's the biggest difference. But when you're that age, you think you know. Do you think it's even harder for like a kid like your son or you two who's like smarter than the average kid? Totally. So it's like you're even more blinded by it and you already perceive yourself as like, yeah, he's talking about most people, not me. I have 100%. Because I'm well read, I know more than this. I can have intelligent conversations with 30-year-olds already. So you already- I was so full of knowledge that I thought I had all the wisdom. That's 100%. That was me for the longest time. That's your boy. You know when I started to realize it, when I was in my late 20s and then I would train older clients and then they would start to like talk to me about certain things and I started to realize like, oh my God, like that's some serious wisdom. I didn't know that. Wow, that's incredible. I really appreciated it. But in my early 20s, I was like, oh, here comes, you know, Mrs. So-and-So and she's gonna tell me the same stories and I'm gonna work her out, you know, train her. I mean too, it's a big cultural thing on top. Because there are some cultures that do a better job with that in terms of like integrating old people- 100%. Old cultures. Yes. I think we do a terrible job of that in America. But yeah, I think if we did pay homage and did look up to our elders and had them like included a lot more, that's the other thing that you see a lot too in like these tech companies and they're always getting rid of like older people and like, you know, not keeping them around to like balance this drive that all these young people have, I think, to know over there. It's because we are a consumer-based, productivity-based culture and youth is amazing. Eroding wisdom. Yes, so youth is amazing for productivity, right? You can work your butt off, you can produce, you can be innovative because you tend to think differently, right? So you tend to be less set in whatever ways. You just kind of like look at things differently and you consume. Like you're not gonna sell, like try to come out with a product that you're gonna sell to 60-year-olds or versus 16-year-olds, right? Like which one's gonna go viral? You know, there's a good movie that actually covers, did you guys ever see the movie with, I think it's Sandra Bullock and it's definitely Robert DeNiro. Did you see that one, Doug? I didn't. So she is like a young entrepreneur who built this multi-million-dollar internet company selling clothes and he is a retired ex-CEO whose board his wife died and he has nothing to do and so he's like, I'll get a job for the hell of it and he applies to be like her assistant and of course there's this like, oh my God, this guy's a fossil. He's older, like by four times. He's like breaking down every year. The intern. Yes. Oh, I've never seen it. It's a good movie. Oh my God, I saw it a long time ago. Yeah, it's actually a real, it's not Sandra Bullock, it's someone else, huh? Anne Hathaway. Yeah, so it's been a long time since I've seen it but it's worth a watch. If you've never watched it, would you say? The other Brudette. Rob's so terrible at that. Katrina's so better about that. Like, oh, did you see so much? You'll never forget Robert DeNiro though. Yeah, I do remember him. I love all the gangster movies, that's why. That's why I say it. But yeah, if you haven't watched that movie, especially around this conversation that we're having, it's a lot of that is played out and it's a good comedy. Oh, I remember it so and the funny thing is too with your parents, when you're real little, they're gods. Then you get older, they're idiots. Then you get older and even older and have your own kids and they're gods again. Now I look to my parents like, like, oh my God, you're so like, give me advice. Like, I need to talk to you or whatever. But when I was a teenager or early 20s, like, oh my old fashioned parents don't know anything. Yeah. They don't understand. So funny, it's so funny. Speaking of which, just read an interesting study. I love your guys', I guess opinion on this, right? So a study come out showing that, they've been already showing this. In fact, you brought up a book on this, Adam, a little while ago. So this is a new study. They're calling it the great decline in adolescent risky behavior. And what they're finding is that adolescent risky behaviors have declined markedly in high income countries. It's between 1999 and 2019. So less alcohol, less smoking, less risky sex, drugs, crime. So on those ends, adolescents seem to be doing, I don't know if you want to say better, but definitely less risky behavior. So I want to know what you guys' opinion is on this. And effectively scared the shit out of me. So I, first of all, the book I reference, and if you like information. Igen, right? Yes, Igen. So if you like stuff like you're, and I think it's Jean Torre or something like that, something like that, is there, I think the author, if you, the whole book is just nothing but studies like this. And I thought it was really, I can't remember the conclusion that the author came to around this, but I believe, and I don't know if I believe that because it's what I read or it's just what the conclusion I came to is that, I think that it's because of how much information that a young person can gather around something. You could literally Google right now, what are my statistics if I get married before the age of 21? And it pop up, how likely you are to get divorced or how easy is it for me to contract an STD if I have this many partners? Like you can Google that type of information and instantly be told. And I just think that there is a more awareness around the dangers, the pitfalls. You bombarded them with the world's problems. Right. Like we didn't grow up with like all the political problems and like, you know, what's happening overseas and like everything like around the world right now could be just popped up in their feed and they could like stress out. So that's my, what's your... I have a different theory. So I'll be reading about this because this is actually something that people are talking about right now. And I read some interesting articles and again, I'd love your guys opinion on this. So the theory that I have is that it may be a side effect of some negative things that are happening with teenagers and adolescents. In other words, kids are more lonely. They're not meeting with each other as much. They're not getting the driver's license as young as we used to. They're not hanging out as much. They're staying at home more. Parents are helicopter parents more. Yes. And then we're isolated. So there's a good and a bad to it. So kids are more anxious. So at the same time as they're having this reduced risky behavior. They're coddled. They're also more depressed, more anxious and more lonely. And the, if you look at all the studies on this one article I read, talked about like all the growth periods of as you're growing up. And one of the things that is like a hallmark of being a teenager is going out and testing boundaries. So it's like a toddler. Toddlers are the same thing. Except toddlers boundaries are like this. Teenagers boundaries are like this. If you go out into the world and mom's not watching you, you don't have your phone connected to them. They can't watch your location. You're not at home on your computer. You're out with your friends all the time. Like we were, like when we went out, nobody knew what the hell we were doing. We just had to be home at a certain time. You're going to engage in more and more of these risky behaviors, which is negative. But then the positive is you're not as depressed, not as anxious, not as lonely. So it's this, it's like, it's almost like we think we fix one thing when in reality we cause other problems. So it's kind of weird. Yeah, it's interesting. I was just watching, I don't know if you guys have watched this yet, but I think it's called like Class Action Park and it's on HBO. But it goes over this park that's in New Jersey that was like the most dangerous like amusement park, water park that they ever made. And some guy made it like everything that was like engineered was like super fast and like sketchy and they knew that there was risk that people were getting injured like left and right, but they fucking loved it. And they were feeding them alcohol and kids were just talking trash to each other. Like there was this one like Tarzan Swing where it's like freezing water below. And like it was really way too high and like people would try and do all these like crazy moves off of it. They'd flash each other, you know, like, take their pants off and like, yeah. You should watch it. Does it exist still? No. No, no, no, no. I mean, again, Class Action Park, like they had tons of losses I think towards the end of it. I didn't even get to the end of it, but it was just funny because it brought you back because it was like in that era of like the 90s where you'd see like on MTV. It was like the MTV era where you had spring breakers and like so everybody would go there. And it was like, they'd all get hyped about it because like there was that thrill that you could really get injured. Yeah, so I mean, I think everybody's right. I mean, I definitely don't think any of the things that we speculate is contributing to it is not. I think they're all contributing to it. I think the bigger question would be, which is contributing to it the most, right? I mean, to me, it's like all those things would obviously play a role in that. It's like, which one is the- It could, but I think about it like the social stigma and fear around getting like pregnant, for example, was really strong back in the day. And that didn't prevent teenagers and kids from doing certain things. It was stronger than it is now. The teen mom show did the most. Yeah, I mean, before birth control existed, like that was a real deal. Like, oh, shit, you're pregnant. We'll now guess what. So it's not those statistics that I think that deters them. I think it's things like how less likely they are to make more money, how much more likely they are to have a divorce and have their parents. Like I think it's all those things that they're researching going like less about, oh, it's risky to have a kid. But all the things that are attacking them and have a kid, but all the things that are attached to that. We were talking about teenagers. Do you think they're logical in that sense? It's not so much, it's a logical thing as much as it is I can Google it in two seconds and get a feedback on it. Yeah, you still want to experience it. Like, I don't know, man, when I was a teenager, like you could have told me how dangerous some of the shit I did was all day long. Okay, here's the deal. You're right. But I was out there and no one was watching me. My parents could have said that to me, but if I went and found the information for myself, I would come to my own conclusion. Totally different at 15. So if dad tells me, don't get pregnant or don't get a girl pregnant at 17 because this and this might happen, I'm gonna go, oh, whatever. But if I go, if I searched it on my own and it goes, oh, these are the, and it's an outside piece of information that I'm receiving, not from my parents, I'm more likely to listen to it and maybe adhere to it. Maybe, I don't know. I mean, I hear what you're saying. I don't know. So because with human behavior, if you pull one lever, other things get affected. It's never, oh, just do this thing. And we're totally cool. So what we did is we pulled the lever of... We just made them depressed and anxious instead. What we did is we pulled the safety lever. Safety, home with me, watching you constantly. And then we don't realize that now that changes how they are able to develop. And the side effect may be depression, anxiety, fear, that kind of shit. So I don't know, man. It's really weird. We didn't like drivers, people getting driver's licenses. Did that go down? Decline, right? And all that. They talk about that too, though, right? Like, and there's actually a real logical reason why that is. And again, I don't think anyone's wrong here. I think all the things that you guys would speculate is contributing, but the ability to just Uber. I mean, we have grown adult friends that are in their 40s that don't even own cars that are millionaires because the access, how easy it is to use Uber and the logic by that. Oh, I don't have to pay insurance for that. I don't have a car payment for that. It comes and gets me wherever I want. I can still text and talk to people while it's driving. That's a big one. It is a big one. So it's just stay at home and text and get on your computer. Do you remember when we were kids, how if you wanted to hang out with your friends but not be around them, the only way you could do it was get on the phone. But the challenge was, if you're on the phone, mom or dad's gonna pick up the other line, wanna make a phone call, it's super limited. So you're at home bored as shit. TV isn't what it is now. TV, you had like so many channels and there wasn't like wall-to-wall entertainment. Do you remember having the- You had to make plans at like a park and like meet up. Do you remember having the super long phone cord so you could go in here and close the door and it's like attached to the kitchen? Totally. Remember three-way calling? Was it party line or whatever? Mom, I want a party line. Yeah. That's sad. I know. It's pretty wild stuff. Mitch is one of our partners right now. We haven't mentioned one of our partners. Oh, well, you know, let's talk about Paleo Valley because they're the chocolate bone broth that I keep telling everybody about, how it tastes. Is that flying off their shell? Yeah, it's still the hell out of it. Awesome, I'm sure. How it's the best tasting protein I've ever had in my entire life? Everybody agrees. It is literally, I don't know what they did do. That's the feedback on. It's the first protein drink of my life ever that I actually drink. I would drink because I like the taste. You add it to like macadamia nut milk, almond milk or whatever. Oh my God. Well, their beefs kept me going, man. It kept me surviving when I was traveling though. That's such a convenient thing. Cause like, dude, all you got is carbs. Like carbs, carbs, carbs for like just something to pick up and grab. You know, like you never know. I didn't know what kind of like meal situation I was going to have. So I just packed the shit. Oh, did you really? Yeah, my suitcase full of those things. That's become a staple now for Max. I told you guys that's been one of the challenges is getting him like a protein source at school because they don't have a microwave. And so it's like. All right. So like, chop up the beef jerky and give it to him in a little sandwich bag. Which one does he eat with flavor? He'll eat whatever I have. I mean, I'm not the whole opinion. No, I won't give him the whole opinion. Although he will. So Max will have jalapenos. Really? Yeah, he will. And I was like, you know what? Let him try. I mean, he'll find out if he doesn't like it or not. I'll have like jalapeno chips, which are really got a kick to him. And he'll see me and he'll come over and he'll have a cold. But you know what? He self-regulates. So I know it's like a little spicy for him, but he hasn't like, it doesn't give him the shits. It hasn't like freaked out or cried or what that. So I figured that's a way to keep a release from eating what I'm eating. So. So. It's spicy. A little Tabasco. No, so I'm too spicy. Like, well, we get pistachios, right? And we get two bags, one's original and these are all shelled. And the other one's like chili, whatever flavor. So I'll pull out the chili flavor ones. He's like, but I can have one. I'm like, it's spicy. And then I'll like kind of put one on his tongue. And that's it. Now anytime I say something spicy. That's such a dad hack. You have to learn like what the kids won't eat. You know, I start like really buying that, you know, in bulk. It's hilarious. Yeah, anyway. So did you guys hear that NASA, I think in, I want to pull it up. I believe in 2028 is going to be launching a asteroid hunting. Yeah, 2028, an asteroid hunting spacecraft is going to launch in 2028. Asteroid hunting? Yes. So I mean, what is it going to go and find and then shoot them and blow them up? No, just identify them. Oh, okay. So, so here's the challenge. Asteroids that come within 30 million miles of Earth. I want there's a title, dude. The asteroid hunters. Yeah, that's an actual. That sounds like a show. Wait, hold on. I think that's an actual. I bet it comes with a cool jacket. Yeah, like you got to have a mullet. Cool patches on it. Like blades. Yeah. So, so asteroids that come within 30 million miles of Earth are called near Earth objects. And if one of them is wider than 460 feet and they hit the planet, it could flatten the city. And if they get within a certain distance, they've calculated that none of our current technology would be able to deflect it with enough time. So if it gets even within a certain, you know, it's far, we could blast it with our technology. It's still going to probably hit Earth. So what they're trying to do is identify as many as possible within that range so that if something does come in with that range. What we got to do is assemble a team of the world's best drillers and shoot them up into space. I think there's a movie about this. And they all get on the meteor and they drill. You know, I watched this video that kind of broke down like the theories that people comment theories for like stopping asteroids. And they said, yeah, you got a huge asteroid headed for Earth. And if it's within a certain distance and you're like, oh, let's go blow it up with a nuke. Well, now you've just turned one rock into 20 rocks early, it's like a shotgun blast. Rain, death. Good job. All right, everybody, we're totally effed. Do you guys think that NASA would tell us if there was no? Do you think the government would tell us if they knew inevitably we're effed? No, I don't. I do not. Because you know why? They'd wait to like, you know, an hour before. Why? I see what we do. I don't even know if they would. I think they'd be more concerned about the chaos and the death from the chaos that would potentially happen if we knew that was happening. I don't think we would get warmed. I really don't. Do you think we would get warmed? I'd be alarmed seeing a bunch of like spaceships just taken off left and right, you know, and they're not telling us. I guess the bigger question would be, would it leak out? Because I don't think they would come out and announce it. But maybe they had family members. Right, you have somebody who's working in that in that department, right? And you're sure shit, not going to not tell your family, right? You're like, they're like, OK, just top secret. Don't say anything. You're over there texting your wife, right? Top secret. All good times. Get the kids, pack the bags. I think it depends on the estimation, because if they're like, OK, it's going to take out a city and we have two weeks, then maybe they'll tell everybody. But they're like, OK, well, the Western Hemisphere of Earth is screwed, then what are we going to do? And I can say anything. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. That would suck. That would suck. Do you think those really deep bunkers that are over and like Wyoming and stuff that all those millionaires have, do you think that would be protected? Oh, the nuke protector. Yeah, I think they would sort of have less of a gun. None of the meteor slams right on them. Well, yeah, not if they hit a direct hit, but you know. Or the meteor could hit Yellowstone, set off the super volcano, and now we're really. That's always a potential. Dude, I thought about this when I was on Iceland. It was like all active volcanoes, like everywhere. The whole place. They could just go anytime. And they were just so chill. Is it like that? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. But that stupid show on Netflix, what was it called? What the fuck? Yeah. I couldn't finish it. With the, it was in New Zealand. Terrifying. Dude, it was a volcano. Oh, Katrina was watching it. That was a true story. Yeah, steam just burned the hell out of her. You got video, like there's video. I was actually nervous about that. Oh, it was terrible. And the story, like they're grabbing on to each other and their skin's like, ripping just flesh off. It's terrible. All right, let's change topics real quick. We got to bring up the chairbender. I showed you guys her video. That was a great video, man. It's an old video, apparently. Yeah, it happened in September, but for some reason it's going viral right now. It's made the news. And of course, everyone's talking about it, so it's getting millions of views now. Bro, on Twitter, they were like, never challenge a white girl that works to a fight that works at the Waffle House. That's a tough lady. That's a tough. That's a bad bitch right there. Bro, she was. When she grabbed that chick and she's like, you know, right across, uppercut, right. And then they called her the chairbender because she got chairs thrown. And she literally deflected them like she was like, man, it was hilarious. Like a kung fu movie. Her interview afterwards. So she did a video explaining. I tried to watch it. It was long. I couldn't get all the way through it. It was like she talked on the on there. As you would imagine, like that's what you would imagine she would sound like. Oh, yeah. When she went to throw the second chair, I was sitting there going, throw the second one. Throw the second one. I'll catch it just like the fucking first. Come on, let's go. Hitting her vape pin while she's talking. Telling the story. I know. You're a real classic. Speaking of which, there's this page that I follow. I'm not going to give them a shout out because I don't think it's a. I have someone else to shout out. But anyway, they show all these like fight challenges where people off the streets, walk into martial arts schools or boxing gyms and challenge the trainers. The dojo and like, oh, you got to be the dumbest person on earth. Yes, apparently that happens every now and then. Or you're looking to get beat up, you know, it's so dumb. Like, why would you even, why would you there was this? I saw one this morning where it's this, this dude challenge off the street, challenge day, like a Keohokushin black belt and karate to a fight. And I mean, after the first kick, you're like, oh, this is not going to go good. And he did like this flashy spin kick and knocked the guy completely out. Like, why do they do that? It was like a video game combo he put together. And then like finish him with this roundhouse to the face. Not to completely shift gears, but I'm going to anyways, because I was, I actually wanted to ask you, you had sent a text over, I think it was last night or maybe it was even this morning about layoffs again. I hadn't read that yet. Who is it? Maybe pull that up. Amazon. Oh, it's Amazon. Yeah. Amazon is they already had a big wave already. Didn't Amazon and Salesforce, right? Yeah. Oh, Salesforce too, huh? I think that was the Amazon and Salesforce was in the text. You saw the, you saw Facebook with the big fines, right? Started off the 400 million, 400 million European Union. Because now what was it about? Because they were using some privacy, some privacy fines. It was based off of like people's time using, what was like the amount of time they were like, like scrolling. And so like they pinpointed, went to like target them with ads. Yeah. Amazon will lay off more than 18,000 workers. Wow. 18,000 at what percentage? And to me, it doesn't matter what percentage. It's a lot of workers. Yeah. That's a lot. And then there's a lot in Amazon though. And Salesforce is cutting 10% of the workforce. So this is like, you know, we're starting to see the beginning of this. Yeah, it is the beginning. It's the very beginning. It's just going to get worse. No, everybody, everybody, I mean, about six months ago, there was denial for, I don't know, say 50% of the economists that we were heading into a nasty recession. Now it's a hundred percent. I mean, most people that, you know... It's inevitable, isn't it? Well, technically, we were already in one. Technically, but we've changed that definition. So you think they'll change the... Go back to Webster and rewrite a definition. Oh, they'll just change the name. We understand. This is a slow growth phase. Oh, wow. God, they have 1.4 million. How weird would that be? Just think about it for a second. Imagine how bad we think we are already with being able to spend time with all of our employees. Like we openly admit that we need to be better about that. We're not good at it. Then we have 1.4 million. Yeah, we have like 20 employees. 1.4, you'll never meet half of us. No, impossible. Ever. No. That's so crazy to think that. You know what's suck about that? Is imagine running a company like that and then finding out that a huge segment of your... Hate you or something? Or just was treated like shit or something happened. Yeah. And you're like, you weren't even aware. But you know it's on you, right? Because you run the company. But you had no idea. Did any of you... Speaking of that, did any of you listen to that interview I saw Joe Rogan posting about who is like a guy who goes in there and like looks at the conditions of like a lot of these? Oh, no, I didn't. What was it? Oh, I didn't watch it. Did you know the name of it? Oh, you guys want... Maybe pull up his Instagram because he posted it saying that like... About the conditions of what? Like, like he was this guy, like this is what he does. He goes in and investigates big companies like Amazon about the work conditions, the pay, all those things like that. And you know, Joe posted about it maybe a week ago saying that it was like one of the more enlightening conversations he's ever had. So I just thought, I mean, you guys are bigger Joe Rogan listeners than I am. I thought for sure you would have listened to it already. Yeah, I was listening to one... It was on my list to actually ask you about because I thought, oh, Justin will have listened to it. I'll probably listen to it now. Oh, there's his name right there. Siddharth Kharra. Is that it, Doug? Oh, I don't know. That's Andrew. Thank you, Andrew. Siddharth Kharra was the guy he interviewed. You know what episode, does it say the episode number on there? 1914. Now, I do... Is this the same guy? He said 1914. We passed, Joe. Yeah, we passed Joe. Oh, wow. So that's listeners, we passed him. It's hard to out talk us. I wish we could pass his income. Yeah. We got five more thousand episodes to be as good as he was five years ago. Is this the same guy that was talking about the lithium mines? That's a different guy. Okay. Did you see that one? I saw clips. I didn't see the holes. So he was talking about how these companies are like, oh, yeah, we don't have any humans mining this stuff. This is all done by machines. And he went in there with a hidden camera. Oh, same guy, I think. It is. It's called Cobalt Red. That's it. How the blood of the Congo powers our lives. That's the one. Oh, so it is the same guy. It is. That's the interview. It's Cobalt. That's what it was, not lithium. So he went in and with a hidden camera, took pictures. And this is like, and they're not supposed to be using humans to mine. That's the one where it's like just littered with people just digging. Yes. Oh my God. I didn't see that. This is what's actually happening. Dude. That's fucked up. That is fucked. Yeah. I mean, I thought for sure you guys had listened to it. So I'll have to go listen to it then. I'll check it out. I mean, I've, you know, being completely honest, I don't think I've ever listened to an entire Joe Rogan episode. It's all this three hours. That's why. Isn't that crazy? They're long. They are. But I mean, I mean, obviously continuing on the drive back. Is that what you do? Yeah. Yeah. I just see you come here and then go back and then you're almost done. Yeah, pretty much. Did you guys see, boy, it's just terrible. I mean, I guess it's good marketing for Tesla, but it's a terrible situation. Did you guys hear what happened with that guy that tried to kill himself and his family in the Tesla? That was here. Was it? That was by Justin. No. You didn't hear? Yes. I didn't know the location. No way. It was? Yes. That was a crazy story, though. Right? Wasn't it over here, Andrew? I don't know. Yeah. Gio was talking about it yesterday at work. Here, I pull it. And he said it was on. It was on. It started out as like. It was on 17, I think. Pasadena. Oh, it was Pasadena. Oh, I thought it was over here. So he took trip off this, right? He's got, he's in his car with his wife. It's a doctor. Him, his wife and two kids. He drives the Tesla off a 250 foot cliff. And lives. Everybody survived. Everybody survived. And now he's amazing. And now he's being charged, right? Of course. Wow. I can't believe they survived. Yes. So that's why I said it's like bad, you know. I guess it's crazy bad. Well, they tried. Wasn't it initially that the news came out and then it was like trying to use that as like kind of blasting Tesla and like making them look bad? Why would it blast Tesla? Well, I know. They survived. Now that they survived, right? I don't think so. Our cars are so safe. Well, there's a special place in hell for somebody like that, dude. I think that's just awful. Terrible. Did you guys see the new law that just got passed in Tennessee? What? You just reminded me of this. Oh. Did you see this? About, OK, so if you're a drunk driver. That's right. If a drunk driver kills somebody and that person is a parent, you are now liable for child support. Oh, I agree with that. I know. I thought that was like, what a cool law. I mean, shitty situation. But I mean, what a way to, I mean, because you don't know whatever. I mean, I never thought of it like that. How much you take away, you know, from families like that. Yeah, 100%. Now, the only problem with that is you're going to, how, what use is it, because you're going to go to jail, you ain't going to earn shit. So how would you be able to? You will when you get out, I guess. Unless, I guess, you have money. Maybe if you already have money, then you'll. Well, how long do you normally go to jail? How long does someone actually go to jail, though? I think it's considered murder. If you're intoxicated and you crash into someone and you kill them. So I think you go for a little while. Look that up, Doug, because I bet you something like that, because I think they still get away with it being, it's not intentional. So I don't know the levels of, you know, first-degree, second-degree, man slaughter. Like, I don't know, like how. And then you know that whatever they get sentenced, they could easily get out and 50, you know, 50% less time if they're on good behavior and do so at that. So I bet you they're not in there as long as you think they are. Well, I mean. Something that's, you know, quote unquote, accidental. If it's your first time. Yes. It might be a few years. Or maybe you're one of my friends that happened to you. Okay. California is four, six or 10 years. Okay. So 10 at the most. And you could be killed in multiple people. So you could end up serving five, bro. So you're back making money within five years. Yeah, but now you're in jail. You're a felon. You come out. The kid is already now older, maybe an adult. So do you still pay? Like, you know what I mean? Like I wonder how useful, it would be useful if you already had money, I guess. If you already had money and then they could take some and give it to the kid. I mean, yeah, obviously it would be more useful. But I mean, I still think it's a good law. So do I. Yeah. I mean, I think it's just one more thing that's going to deter you from doing something like that. Totally agree with it. All right. So we're supposed to mention LMNT. I want to say this. This is to moms out there who are breastfeeding. Very valuable for breastfeeding moms. Very valuable. I remember when they recommended it to us when Jessica was breastfeeding Aurelius to increase her milk production. It made a big difference. And now she's using it. It made a huge difference for us too. Yeah. Katrina, I remember when she first started doing it, she was like, oh, my God, she could feel. She could feel the difference instantly by increasing it. But I mean, it's a significant amount that you're bumping up. So if you're at all deprived in that area. And I know it's the sodium. The sodium helps you retain more water so that you now can produce more. Which is at the same thing. Hydrates you better. So the old, the old like hacks is like, like even like beer, like the wheat and beer is supposed to help help that. Yeah, I think that there's they make, they make these low like lactating crackers or something like they call them. I forget what they're called. Yeah, there's product. There's compound snacks. I think they're called galactogogs. But I mean, okay. So my question, my question, Sal, my question, Sal, is, is, is it the same thing that's in those that really caught, that are getting the same benefits that. No. Oh, it's different. Yeah. So multiple factors. Yeah. So if you talk to like a lactation specialist, they'll say, if you're not producing enough milk, step one, two and three is to drink more water. That by far will make the biggest difference. Then, then you can look at things like galactogs, which are compounds that can increase milk production. And they make those like, Is that real or is that a Star Wars character? Sounds like Transformers. I think it's a Star Wars character. I know, it sounds funny though. Is that what he thinks? No, you can look at it. He's making words up just to test us right now. No, galactogs. The vendors of the universe. What movie was that? Was it The Troopers? The Super Troopers? Were they like insert the word? Like, are the meow, like the cat when he's like, we should do stuff like to each other. Chicken part. No, it's real, watch. It is a galactog, a substance that increases milk supply. There it is. Look at you guys. I remember the most random. It's so funny because I have the perfect memory for podcast. This was, it's a useful, it's a useless memory in real life. Podcasting, so useful. Brilliant. Yeah. Let's, I want to give a shout out to humanprogress.org. This is a website that posts like breakthroughs and good news. And basically it's a great way to offset all the negative crap that's out there. So when you go on there, you can read how less people are illiterate than ever before. More people are fed. We've eradicated this disease. We've come closer to a cure for cancer. It'll, it'll, it posts all these breakthroughs in science, economics, in education. It's a great positive website and it's all data driven. Remember it's dot real positive news. This is actually, I'm glad you shared this one because this is one multiple times when I've got like a negative Nancy friend or somebody who's always referencing like negative bad news. I'm just like, bro, or doom and gloom, right? I'm like, go look at this. And I always forget it's dot org and not a dot com. So humanprogress.org is the, is the website. Hey, what's up everybody? You got to check out Organify. They make organic plant-based supplements for performance, health and wellness. One of my favorite products is peak power. This is effectively a pre-workout supplement that doesn't make you feel like garbage or crap. You actually get this smooth euphoric feeling. So it's got caffeine, but it also has other ingredients, botanical plant-based ingredients that balance it out to make it longer lasting, to make you feel good, to not give you anxiety, not hurt your stomach. It feels incredible. It's one of my favorite products of theirs. They have lots of other stuff though to check out. So go to their site and get a discount with our code. Go to organifi.com. That's organifi.com forward slash mind pump. Then use the code mind pump for 20% off. All right, here comes the show. Our first caller is Marvin from Delaware. Marvin, what's happening? How can we help you? Wow, nothing much, guys. I don't know why I'm like fanboying right now. This is pretty awesome to be talking to you guys. So thank you for having me on. Just a real quick background. This is in the military for about seven years. Been working out off and on for about 10 years, but probably the last two years have been kind of serious. I found you guys in about June of last year and started to really take control of my life because of you guys. So I thank you guys for that. But straight into my question, and so I'm someone who I'm 5'11", I'm about 2.45 right now. And I decided because of you guys to reverse diet all the way up to like 4,000, 4,200 calories. And shit, that was kind of hard to be honest. I did that for like four months. And I actually saw great results. I got hella strong. I was doing power lift at the time. But my main question kind of focuses on the cutting aspect. So in the last phase of power lift, I was about three weeks into a cut. And this was the last phase as people know, or if you don't know, you kind of go for your maxes almost 90% at least. And I was way stronger than I anticipated when I was doing it. I was, I had never benched 315 in my life and boom, I did it. Hit about 520 on deadlift and about 425 on squat. So like I was hella strong. But my question mainly is around the whole cutting and the strength part because in the past I've cut before, well, I didn't cut correctly before. I was definitely a person who went kind of extreme before. And I would feel like complete shit. I was super weak and I honestly didn't know what I was doing back then. But yeah, this time around, I was, it was crazy. I felt, I still felt like the effects of the cuts, like as far as like, oh man, I'm feeling kind of hungry. And I'm feeling a little sluggish, but when I was in the gym, I was like, I felt like a fucking beast. And I just kind of just more curious to anything as to why. This is, we're going to have to clip this for commercial because I mean, this is a perfect example of when you do it right. I mean, you actually got to see strength gains even in a cut, which is incredible. But that's just a testament of you putting the work in of doing it right. Getting your calories up to a very healthy place for you out building some really good muscle. And that just goes to show, I mean, had you stayed in a bulk, you probably would have PR'd even harder. That's what I was going to say. You hit PR's in spite of the cut because of the reverse diet leading up to it. And good programming. And very good programming. Good workout programming makes it tremendous, tremendous. I mean, you could go in a bulk and have bad workout programming get weak, you know. So this is not uncommon when things are done right. Plus the cut you were in was only three weeks. So with good workout programming and you had a good reverse diet, I mean, you're still going to see strength gains many times in a cut, especially in the beginning stages of a cut. Now, if you were on a cut for 12 weeks or longer, then I would suspect that you wouldn't see strength gains. But to Adam's point, had you stayed in a bulk, you would hit more or higher numbers than you did in the cut. So the fact that you hit those numbers in a cut, it's just goes, it's a testament to the workout programming. Really, it's in the fact that you did it. And the reverse dieting. I mean, you did a great job. I mean, I think that that's the takeaway here is like, fuck yeah, bro. Like this is, this is what you want to see. Party on. This is a, this is a great, and then, I mean, I would run the cut for a while and then I'd go back to kind of a mini bulk and depending on what your goals are. So if you're more strength focused, I would run a smaller cut, get back in the bulk and then keep pushing the strength. If you want to lean out right now, and that's more of a focus, then I'd cut for a while, interrupt it with a little mini bulk and then go back to the cut. But I mean, what you're feeling and where you're at right now is a testament of training properly and eating properly. And that's, it's awesome, dude. I mean, it's a great place to be. Totally. Oh, no, I appreciate it, guys. Like, I mean, truly, I know I said thank you in the beginning, but like, I was, I was one of those guys who was a, who was always afraid of the scale going up. And like, basically, I was just afraid of being fat, if I'm just being straightforward. And because of you guys, I decided to like take a chance per se or whatever and just start increasing my calories. And yeah, the, not only the difference in the gym, but just the, my role as a husband and everything. Like, I felt like I was just more present in everything, feeding myself and actually doing it all right. So I really attest like a lot of that to you guys. And like, I couldn't be more appreciative. So yeah, you guys are awesome. Yeah, it's great. Now you're in a cut and you're probably eating something close to 3000 calories, which is, which is amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm currently, because of you guys also, I'm, I'm in like this week, I'm like in a mini, like a mini bulk, mini main maintenance stage, I guess, because, yeah, I've been in it for like about probably five, four or five weeks. And I thought like, oh, well, this is kind of, this is kind of sucking a little bit. I know it's, I didn't know it's 3000, which is still kind of nice, but it's still kind of sucked and I wanted to eat more. So I said, yeah, I'm just going to take this one week off to kind of eat a little bit more and kind of throw my body a little curveball to keep it going, but then jump back into it. But I love that. Yeah. You guys are appreciated guys. You're doing it the right way, trusting the process. And you're going to get to, you're going to get to your goals and you're going to feel good while you're doing it. So yeah, Mark, I'm going to have Doug. You're not in our private forum, are you? Um, so, uh, to, to, um, to be on, yes, I am. Oh, okay. But to be honest, I have, uh, I have slaved away a lot of money at you guys already. I have, uh, I'm in the forum. I have probably five or six programs. Uh, so I'm not, you know, if you guys do like hand me something around, I'll be grateful. But truly, I just wanted to like just gain some knowledge and just, just talk to you guys. So, um, yeah, I'm all in there. I'm like a big fan boy. Marvin, pick a program you don't have. I'm going to send you something. Let's go. What, what don't you have to you? I mean, it's so funny. You guys always talk about like anabolic and like, um, soon like less volume will eventually be better depending on where you are. So that's the only one I don't have. I think is anabolic. Wow. Well, we'll send it right over to you. We'll send it over there. I appreciate it guys. And make sure you keep us posted, uh, in the forum, right? We were in there on a regular basis. So tag us and keep us posted on your, on your journey. Because I love, I love hearing stuff like this. It's so awesome to hear where you're at and you're doing great, man. Appreciate it guys. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you, man. I mean, that's, uh, that's, that's what happens. You know, trust in the process. I've had that happen where I've gone into a cut in the first couple of weeks. I still hit some PRs after about five, six weeks. Obviously it doesn't tend to happen, but it's like, that's what I know. Like, oh, this is, this is everything. I'm doing everything right. Well, really feeding his body, you know, for that and leading up to it. And leading up to it. I had to make it. It's an example of when somebody, even with some experience, is off on their programming and is off on their nutrition. And then you align both of them at the same time and you get to see something awesome like that. It's like, he said it right away. In my, in the past, I cut way too hard. He was starving his, his body in the past. I don't know exactly what his programming, what we're going to assume it wasn't as dialed as probably the maps programming is. And so programming off a tiny bit, also starving yourself nutritionally and some of that. You feed yourself properly, get in some solid programming. And guess what? Even in a cut, when you should be seeing a decline in strength, he still saw strength increase, which is awesome, man. Our next caller is Aaron from California. Aaron, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, how's it going today? Good, good, man. Good. I just wanted to say, you know, as always, I appreciate all the information you guys put out there. And I'm about a month behind on, on the podcast right now on Spotify. And so literally just yesterday, Sal, you announced your baby daughter. So congratulations on that. That's amazing. Well, you still haven't caught up to Justin's sex chains then, have you? Yeah. Yeah, that's the whole process. Not quite, not quite. I'm looking forward to that one. Yeah, yeah, it's coming up. It just happens. So yeah, my main question here is, you know, everybody has a super busy schedule. I wake up at 5.30 in the morning to work out. And from, you know, kind of the minute I wake up until I get home at, you know, 5.30 and then make dinner and hang out with the wife and the daughter and everything. I, you know, I'm busy from 5.30 in the morning to 8.15 at night. And so my main question for you is, with only about 45 minutes or so to work out in the morning, I hear you guys always talk about sleep and priming. And so I'm wondering if I should kind of wake up a little earlier and try to prime before my workout if that would be more beneficial for me, or if the sleep that I'm getting, you know, is kind of more beneficial for me at that point as well. I have two alternatives for you, two solutions. One, if it's either or, and that's it, that's the only, like the options we have. Sleep is more important. Yeah, sleep can be more important. That being said, you can actually get some of the benefits of priming the day before. So you can actually, that night, when you put your kids down or whatever, do 10 to 15 minutes of mobility priming and you'll still get some benefits to your ability to connect to muscles. There's also another alternative. And I honestly would actually put this back on you as a client. I'd ask you, I said, well, Erin, what's more important to you right now? Like, so if you came to me and you were complaining about joint pain a lot and my low back is bothering me, and a lot of things that I know are crippling you are your lack of mobility and addressing priming and addressing mobility exercises. And I'm hearing that from you. I'm gonna throw you on a program like Map 15 and I'm gonna add 20 to 30 minutes of programming of mobility work in there instead. But if you've come to me and you're like, Adam, I feel pretty good, but I know you guys talk about the benefits of priming and I wanna get the benefits of that. I might go, well, it's, if you're not noticing anything that's hindering you and you're getting great workouts, I would prioritize sleep and I'm not gonna be so worried about you missing some of your priming sessions. So it really depends on how you feel at that time. And that doesn't mean that you can't weave in and out of it. So let's say, because I have this, I have weeks where I do feel, oh, low back is tight and my shoulders are bothering me and I just really haven't been addressing mobility. That's where I might transition to kind of a Map 15 routine, but I do 20, 30 minutes of mobility work because I know my body needs it. It's talking to me. And there might be other times where I've been, I'm squatting deep, I've got good mobility, I don't feel stiff, I feel good. And so I'm priming and doing mobility work less and I'm focused more on driving strength. And so there's, even though we create these programs with this rigidity of like, oh, follow it to a T, here's where the flexibility of kind of having all of them and how I would mold and change them based off my client and their feedback. What, go ahead. So it's definitely the latter of the two that you just kind of laid out there. I have pretty good mobility as it is. I don't really have much pain when I'm lifting on a daily basis. I just kind of thought that I never really focus on that. I never focus on mobility. And honestly, like just being so busy throughout the days and the weeks, it's tough. I followed anabolic and performance and it's just tough to get those trigger days, those mobility days in on, you know, basically every day. So I just never really have done that. So yeah, I just wanted to kind of add it in and see what benefits I could get on kind of the strength level there because that's really, really my focus. I do really want to get stronger. Yeah, this is where I would like to recommend map symmetry in terms of like how it like specifically addresses any kind of underlying issue in terms of mobility and really strengthens a lot of support around the joints just naturally going through this unilateral training and also it has kind of built in workouts where you're doing isometrics and you're doing types of mobility that, you know, you're going to be able to kind of go through that entire program, get to the end to where we do like a five by five and see what kind of result that produces at the end. So I love that. And by the way, what you just gave me as feedback would also change how I recommend too. So because you said that it's something you've never really focused on, I might as your, if I was your trainer go, hey, let's actually scale back to map 15 and put a lot of emphasis on mobility. So since I'm limited with time, right? So you're telling me I've got this much time to work with in the morning, I might scale your weight training back and I might increase the amount of mobility just so I could show you how you might feel if you were actually consistent with it for say, you know, three or four weeks and then hear back from you like, hey, what do you notice? Because what you may notice is you scale back on the weight training, increase the mobility and you got stronger and you feel better and you go, oh, shit, bro, I didn't know I was missing or maybe you don't. Maybe you feel a little bit better mobility. Why maybe you feel a little bit better, but you don't feel much stronger and you liked training more than you liked the mobility side. But because you told me that I've never really been consistent with it, I actually, as your coach or trainer, might go, I want to make you do that for a while or I might make you do what Justin said, which take you through a program, which it's programmed in there so I can then show you the benefits of, hey, if you actually incorporated this a little more, even though you think you're fine or you don't really need it that much, look at how much it's benefiting you and let you see the difference. And so- Yeah, there's nothing wrong with experimenting just to see, you know, how your body reacts and how you feel. Yeah, honestly, both of what you guys said kind of makes sense there and I'll take that advice for sure, but, you know, Adam, to your point, the 15 minutes of working out, I've been an athlete all my life, the 15 minutes of working out and then spending the rest of the time on mobility and I always hear you guys talk about it with, you know, people on that. It's just, it's tough to do, you know, it's a tough mindset to get yourself into to only, you know, lift heavy, lift, you know, the waves there for the 15 minutes. Which by the way, Aaron, I know you've probably heard me say is normally what we need to do, you know, the stuff that we are most resistant to or we tend not to want to do tends to be the things that our body needs the most. And so for that reason, you know, if I was coaching you, I would at least make you go through a small period of time to just see, because I could be completely off. I could make you do that and you come back and you go like, Adam- Three weeks won't hurt. Right, yeah, Adam, I don't like it. Because that matters too, right? Even if you felt a little bit better, but you don't like it and you hate it and you're not going to stick with it, I also wouldn't force you as a coach, but I would go, hey, give me three weeks, man. Give me three weeks of like doing what I'm telling you to do, even though you kind of don't like it, and then give me the feedback on your strength, on your energy, how you feel, all those things. And if you see all positive benefits, then you're probably going to sell yourself on the idea of doing more of it. If you're kind of like, I don't really care. I don't really notice a big difference. I miss my hard hour training session. I'm not going to force you to do that. I'm going to say, hey, man, your consistency is more important to me than me telling you you need to do a little bit more ability. But I would at least want you to experiment with you and at least get you to go towards that thing that you're probably resistant to, just to see if you're missing something you don't realize you're missing. Cool. I can, yeah, I can totally give that a shot. And just in what you had said about symmetry, that I really like that as well, because, you know, I was always doing, I've worked out for a long time now and I have done squats and dead lifts and, you know, all the main lifts there. And after starting your program after doing anabolic and performance, I have already with just those programs noticed kind of surrounding muscles and supporting muscles getting stronger. And I used to hurt my shoulder a lot and it's been relatively solid recently since doing those workouts. So hearing that you're saying that symmetry is even more so that is very intriguing. I think I'll definitely, I'll try both of them. I'll give yours a month shot and 15 minute workouts. And then maybe I'll have the symmetry after that. We'll send symmetry over to you. So you got that. So Doug, we'll send it on. Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it. You got it, man. All right, Aaron. Thanks for falling in. Keep it up, man. All right, guys. Take it easy. No problem. Yeah, usually the either or questions have another option, right? It doesn't always, I didn't have to be either or. But if it's either or the answer, I would say it would be sleep for most people. Yeah. But in his particular case, I mean, we had lots of different opportunities for him to try and see, because what's it going to hurt? Three weeks of testing out, training less, doing more mobility. Worst case scenario, you come out of it and go, yeah, it wasn't worth it for me. Yeah. But I think it would be. I think he would do it and he'd be like, wow. I love questions like this because it allows us to keep asking more and like. Find what the root of it is. Right. And my answer would started to change as I heard more information from him and realized like, oh, okay. So you have this athletic background. You love to get after it. You only have a small window. You hear us talk about the benefits of mobility, but then you realize you're going to have to sacrifice some of that. Totally. Hard training. It feels like it's a waste of time. That's definitely a psychological barrier to overcome. Totally. And again, I would only make him do that for a short enough period of time that I'm not forcing him to be consistent with it for a long time that we can at least measure how you feel from it. And if I can't sell you on it in that three to four weeks on how it's improving your life and improving your performance. Fine. Then fine. Then go back to how you're doing because at the end of the day, the consistency is you consistently training the way you've been training is better than you inconsistently training the way I want you to train just because I think you need more mobility in your life. So, but I at least would want to show you that because more often than not, someone does that and they go, oh my God, I'm doing less lifting. And then evaluate. Yeah, I see more results and I feel better and my squats better, my dead list better, and I'm stronger. And then they go like, oh, shit, that's what I was missing. And so I'd at least want him to experiment with that. Next caller is Micah from Indiana. What up, Micah? How's it going? Hey guys, how you doing? Good, amazing. All right, good to hear. So I'll go ahead and give you a little bit of backstory here and give you some context. So last year, I did a whole lot of just split training before I found the show. And then I heard you guys talking about full body training. And so you sold me on that idea. And I went ahead, got anabolic eight weeks in. Absolutely love it. I started doing the muscle pump and it's not too much of a problem because I've done like 15 reps before. But what I found was the 30 second rest breaks were absolutely killing me. I mean, I've come from, you know, doing one minute to all the way up to three minute rest breaks, just talking to people, you know, like more powerlifting style stuff. And so for me, like 30 seconds, just doesn't feel like I can fully recover before the next set. So what I'm wondering is, should I just really focus on like dropping the weight, like way below what I'm used to doing or is it worth doubling the rest periods to kind of focus on adding more weight? No, first option. Yeah. Reduce the intensity and go lighter. Use the weight. Yeah, because the point of that phase is strength stamina is the pump. You're going to have to go way lighter than you think. You could also incorporate cardio to help you with this too. So a lot of times this happens when I, I mean, when I fall off and I haven't been training consistently any sort of cardio at all, and then I go to short rest periods and I'm like, gas. And that's because I have no cardio endurance at all. So you could, you could one, lighten the load up and stick with it and then allow your body to adapt and get good at it. It will, it'll eventually catch up. Or you could start to introduce some days or some bouts of cardio, like hit training in there and watch how that benefits your sets. You'll see that you'll get better at those sets just because you've started to incorporate some, that's the drawback of never doing any cardio. Then, and this is also why we're not anti-cardio. I mean, here's an example of where I would recommend somebody add some cardio in there if you don't want to have to reduce weight. I can totally relate to this too, by the way. Like this is one of those where I started working with Adam actually and like was taking me through some of these like hypertrophy style workouts with like cutting the rest periods. And it was an ego check because, you know, I just want to lift the heavy weights and to reduce it down. I had to go pretty substantially lower than I thought I could do within that rep range and then breaking that up with like a shorter rest period. So it is one of those transitional things. Like you'll get better at it the more you practice it. But if you haven't been incorporating that style of training, the whole intent is based around that. So stick with that. Yeah. When I do face, like a phase three style like this, the first week is terrible. It's by the end of the second week, I start to feel like I'm getting it a little bit. But just to give an example, let's say at the end of phase two, I'm doing sets of squats for 10 reps with 315. And then I go into phase three where I'm doing sets of 15 and there's 30 second rest. I'm down to like 155, like half, like half the weight that I normally would. And the first set doesn't feel that hard. The second set, oh my gosh, this is getting really hard. By the third set, I'm like, oh crap, like this, I think I'm going to pass out. So that's what you got to consider that when you do your sets that I got to be able to do this the third time as well. Because the first set will feel kind of easy with the amount of weight that you should be using that's appropriate for this style of training. So you got to go much lighter than you are now. Otherwise, you're going to find that you just can't get through it. Okay. Awesome. And since I'm not used to that style of training, would you suggest maybe doing more like four or five weeks instead of just the three weeks of the phase three? You can. That's not bad. That's not a bad decision at all. You can. I never do because I hate it. I like it. To that point though, I like that. I mean, I like that attitude of recognizing that, man, I'm like really bad at this. I haven't done this. I don't do this enough. Therefore, I'm going to make myself stick in this a week or two longer than it's asking me to. So I do get good. I like that. That's a good attitude versus what most people do, which is I'm going to spend an extra week or two in the shit that I'm good at and that they do a lot of, which they get less benefits from, where you'll get more benefits from sticking in the stuff that you don't like and that you're not good at. So I love that attitude and I would totally encourage that. But it's gnarly. It's a gnarly feeling. It's what it's like. I'd much rather lift the weight that I feel like's going to crush me than do reps where I feel like I'm going to pass out. You know, it's just, it does suck. It's hard. Same here. Well, good deal, man. Do you have any other questions? No, just wanted to say to appreciate all the stuff that you guys talk about, especially, you know, the kind of bringing awareness to the mental health and spiritual aspects of working out and how that all bridges together, that's something that I think a lot of people should talk about more. So it's really awesome. Excellent. I appreciate that. Let me send you a program. Do you have mass performance? Yeah, performance and aesthetic. Oh yeah. So you have the RGB bundle. All right. Then we'll send you a map symmetry. I think that'll be the next one that you can get some value from. Okay. Yeah, sure. Thanks. No problem, Micah. Thanks for calling in. Yep. See you guys. The switch from high reps, low rest period to heavy weight and long rest period, I love that. The switch from heavy weights, long rest periods to short rest periods and high reps sucks. Well, you know why that is brutal. It's just so brutal. Well, none of us are endurance guys. None of us are, you know, if you were an endurance guy and a cardio guy, it would be the opposite. Sure, you don't love that. Yeah, you love that because it's your, that's which, by the way, I love the kid's attitude. I love the idea that he recognizes, he sucks at it. Because of that, thinks he should stay in there another week or two, which is the opposite of what the average person would do. The average person would be like, fuck this, I'm out of this. Oh, I did the three weeks, I'm out. Yeah, get me back to the stuff I really like, or cutting it short, going like, oh, they only do two weeks of it, then they move back to what they love to do, which is a very common habit of people that train themselves. And, you know, his attitude, he'll get more benefits. More impractices, the better he'll get. Absolutely. Totally. Our next caller is Sebastian from Nova Scotia. Sebastian, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Not much. How are you guys? I'm doing great. What a cute baby. Yes. I tried to make her happy sitting down, but she wants to be part of this. So, yeah, first of all, I want to say congrats to you, Sal, on Delilah. Thank you. She's absolutely beautiful. It's all right. But that's all right. Yeah, I've been following you guys for quite some time and really appreciate what you do. So thank you for that. Thank you. And the last time I was asking you a question, you guys hooked me up with Maps 15 and I've been doing the advanced program. And I'm here to ask some questions about it. OK. So in phase two, I noticed there's no shoulder exercises. And that's kind of one of the parts of my body that I like to stay consistent on, because I don't know. I guess I'm self-conscious, but I want to grow my shoulders. So I just like to do a bit of a focus on it. So there's something I could add into phase two to keep my shoulders kind of stimulated. Or I know there you have the reverse flies or whatever in there. So is that enough? So it is, if you consider the first phase and the third phase. So and also that you're doing compound lifts, like rows and bench press. I was just going to say, so Maps 15 is not a, although you're working out body parts, right? You are training body parts. Not a body sculpting program. It's not a body part program. It's a movement program. So without getting too deep in the weeds here, you can generally, this is very general, OK? So very, very general breakdown I'm going to give you. But you can generally look at workout programs, strength training workout programs as either body part focused or movement focused. So to give you kind of two extreme examples, powerlifting routine, movement focused, OK? Body building routine, body part focused. Both of them have value. Both of them have a lot of value. Now, when we're considering writing a program where you're only going to work out 20 minutes a day, you're going to get much more value focusing on movements than you are going to be focusing on just body parts. Otherwise, what it would look like a 20 minute a day or 15 minute a day body part focused workout would look like a single body part a day, you know, for like two exercises. So it'd be this really weird body part split routine. You wouldn't get enough volume or frequency. It just wouldn't give you much for the time being spent in the gym or in your garage or whatever. But maps 15, we knew, OK, we have limited amount of time. We need to maximize the person's results. And in that context, movement focused is more valuable. Focusing on movements is going to give you better results. So in phase two, you do do the rear flies, but you are doing horizontal presses, like bench presses, whatever. So you're and then phase one and phase three incorporates more, you know, if you want to look at it from a body part perspective, you know, shoulder direct shoulder work. But as you go through the program, you'll see, I mean, it just it does train the whole body is what you're focusing on. Now, that being said, OK, they're here. This is also where there's room for modification and adding to or taking away from some of our programs. So to Sal's point, if we were to if we had only 20 minutes, this is how we would comprise these exercises. This gives everybody the biggest bang for their buck. Right. For overall body sculpting, overall strength building. Systemic effect of all muscles. So like if I only had that much time, I would follow it to a tee. Now, let's say you have days where you can be in there for 30 minutes or you have some a little 10 minute window, some other time in the day. Like and you really you have an area like your shoulders that you want to put extra energy towards. That's how I would do it. I'd say, hey, when you got an extra five, 10 minutes later on the day, go get some shoulder presses or some lateral raises. Or if, you know, you got that day, instead of only 20 minutes, you got 30 to 40 minutes. Add some shoulder presses into the workout because you have something very specific that you you want to focus on while doing this. I would incorporate them like that. But if you only had 15 to 20 minutes, I would follow the program as laid out because I think it's the biggest bang for the buck. But that doesn't mean that I couldn't find ways to modify it for somebody who has a very specific goal like you're saying. Sebastian, we lost the camera there for a second. Yeah. My video just died on me. We won't start back up, but I'm still here. So you heard everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. Okay. So does that make sense? I mean, so you can totally modify that, how you feel best as far as adding some more shoulder work in there. If you feel like they're not getting enough tension. And by the way, this is something for me too. So like shoulders are an area I like to focus on. I notice when my shoulders are developed, it just makes my entire upper body look better to me. And because I tend to be aesthetic driven, I care about that. So even when I run through our Maps 20 protocol, I might add more shoulder stuff into it. But that also extends the program sometimes longer than 20 minutes. And the goal for us was keeping it down to that 15 to 20 minutes. Therefore, certain things we would have to sacrifice. And a basic lateral raise is going to get sacrificed when I only have a certain amount of time with a client. Okay. So you do have a dumbbell presses there on two of the days. So if I substituted overhead presses instead of the bench. Yeah, you're fine. Like dumbbell bench presses. That's cool. Totally fine. Do them standing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then other questions with that. There are only three week phases. Would there be a benefit to extending those phases? Because I really like the program. Like I work shift work and I have four kids. So it's just awesome being able to duck out into the garage 20 minutes, bang out of work out and back to family life, right? You cycle through it. Phase one, phase two, phase three, back to phase one. Or add a week. Or add a week. Either one's fine. You can add a week into there. You just want to be careful. Most of the research is what? Three to six weeks is where the optimal time is. We lean towards the three just so you're constantly kind of changing and moving through that. If you did four or five, I think you would be fine. So you could extend the phases or do what Sal said, which is run through it. And then just run through it again. That's how I would do it. Yeah. Either one. Okay. And is there like, I'd like to do maps for performance. That's, I bought it. I'm kind of would like to do it. Is there any way to do that? Being a shift worker and not having like what I do is one week I work two days and then the other work, the other week I work four or five days. So is there a way to do one week, do like the functional workouts and then next week focus on mobility and just alternate like that without work? Yeah. I mean, you can do, you could definitely, and this is when, you know, individual lifestyle and variance makes a big difference. You could definitely work out more when you can and work out less when you can. There's nothing wrong with that, especially if you have some experience training your body and you know how to do that without really compromising the programming. So you can definitely do that. All right. That'll make sense. So I think that's all the questions I have for you guys. I'm glad you're enjoying maps 15 though. A lot of people don't realize. Oh man, absolute. Like I was worried about it because I was going from, you know, working out three times a week hour workouts and I'm going to that it's daily, but the wife's happy with it. She doesn't mind me ducking out for 15, 20 minutes to the garage. So it's just so convenient and the results are really good as well. Like I feel like I'm kind of doing a bulk right now and I feel like I'm filling out my shirts a little better and I absolutely love it. So thank you so much. It works. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Sebastian. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. You got it. Yeah, I mean, that's how we all felt when we did, when we were experimenting with the program. Like I didn't expect to make strength gains. Yeah, you just felt like it was a pure sacrifice, but when you start getting into it, it's actually one of those things that blows your mind. Like more energy and a lot of times you get those results that you weren't getting. It does. And again, you know, and this is important for people to understand when you're doing a movement focused workout, the focus of the workout is on the movement, not necessarily feeling the body parts and the muscles and squeeze and pump and all that stuff versus body part focused workouts where you're not really necessarily concerned with the movement aside from good form. You're trying to feel the target muscles. Both have value. They both have value. Beneficial. That's it. You want to run a cycle of both. I'm glad we got this question because I'm sure there's people that have purchased the program that were probably wondering the same question. And it's just like, listen, if someone came to me and said, hey, Adam, I have a bodybuilding competition next or in a few months, what programs should I run? I would regardless of their time. I wouldn't say math 15 is the ideal program for them. But if someone said, I only have 15 to 20 minutes, how do I get the biggest bang for my buck? That's the program. That's it. And you're not going to see certain exercises in there because they take up time and don't give us as much return as other ones. And so we had to make that decision as we are programming like, hey, sure, I would selfishly because I like shoulder work, love to throw this in here. But then I'm missing out on a row. Oh, man, we got to put a row in right there. Or, oh, hey, I would love to do these because I love these exercises, a hamstring curl, but oh my God, then we sacrifice a barbell. Back squat, of course not. You know what I'm saying? So those decisions have to be made. You're going to have to sacrifice certain movements if we're limited to time. And that was written to give you the biggest bang for your buck in the shortest amount of time. Totally. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump. Justin, Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump. Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. Today, we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work part. Yeah, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because of the form and technique.