 Pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Act of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner by emailing stevemccarthie at mccarthies at amherstma.gov that's M-C-C-A-R-T-H-Y-S at amherstma.gov. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship and despite best efforts, we will post on the Amherst website an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. And with that done, we'll call the meeting to order at 5.03 PM. Oh, here comes Doug, great. And take a roll call. Dylan. Here. Gaston. Here. Doug. Here. And I'm here. So we're four here and one absent. And next thing on the agenda is public comment. Is there anyone here for public comment? That's general public comment unrelated to anything on the agenda. And if you have that kind of comment, just hit the raise hand button on your computer and Steve will let you in. And I don't see anybody with public comment. So we'll go on to our next agenda item, which is licenses, special short-term alcohol serving licenses. And the first one is actually the only one is SST-23-17, Benson Hyde, Oxbow Wines LLC, April 22nd at 1 to 5 PM, 113 Coles Road on the long. Have we done this before Steve? I don't believe this is a new application. Oh, it's new. Okay. But it looked like something else. And there's a Benson Hyde welcome. And would you like to introduce the license or give us a little bit of explanation? Sure. So more or less, this is an event to help support the International Language Institute, which is based in Northampton. And we are doing sort of a wine festival. We have the opportunity to have 19 winemakers from Italy. We're visiting. And sort of a connection with the importer is actually busing them all out from Boston. And so, yeah. So it's more or less the events we're selling. We, you know, do you want the plans of how we plan to execute it? Yeah, that would be great. I'm sorry. If you could just walk us through, yeah. So yeah, we'd be hosting it at the space in between where provisions is and the Cole's offices. There's sort of a lawn there. It's where, I don't know if any of you guys were involved when Light Up the Night did their event, which we were part of that event, but it's in that same exact space, which has sort of backed up to a fence. And then we would fence off along the street side of that, which is Cole's Road. Okay. And there'd be an entrance to get in. We would, we will, it's a 21 and over, so people will be ID'd and we have bracelets for people as they enter. We're planning to hire a police officer for the day to help be out front and just be around for any contingencies and just to give an, just a, you know, a presence there. And then we will give tickets. So basically the ticket to get in will include tickets that to taste at the table of the different winemakers. So you can have a ticket to taste with each winemaker. The plan is there's gonna be, we also have a VIP hour where they're gonna be sort of slightly more expensive lines open and it's really limited in the number of tickets so that people can have a much more sort of intimate experience with the winemakers. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of things here. So please feel free to fire some questions at me. Okay, great. Thank you so much. Does anyone have any questions? Gaston. Yes, hi, thank you. So with these licenses, one of the few but significant restrictions is that it's either paid by the drink or if there's anything like an open bar it's a private guest list. And I just wanna understand exactly how the, you also can't have the kind of pay and then all you can drink. And so I just wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about how it works after you pay, whatever you pay for either the standard or the premium room. Yeah, so that generates a list of names. So basically in order to, people basically sign up and it generates a list. And so in order to get in, people have to be on that list. And then the ticket gets you a certain number of tickets that you can use to taste at the table. Okay. So you basically are limited by the number of tickets in the plan that you purchase. Exactly. How much you can drink after that. Exactly. Okay, so I mean it's basically just a different way of having a cash bar. Yeah. Okay, thank you. All right. Any other questions about this? Yeah, Doug? If I may, I think, excuse me. I mean, first of all, it sounds like a lovely event. I'm not even a, I'm not a drinker, but I'm sure. I may not tell my wife because I could be in trouble if I have her go, she'll enjoy it too much. But nonetheless, I think that's the intention is to sort of share these regions of Italy with the community. So it sounds like a marvelous event. It sounds like that generally you've got a pretty good handle on folks. So it's kind of a, being 21 and over is helpful. I think the police officer idea is a good one as well to just in case, you know, because there is traffic along Coles Road and the parking lots and whatnot. So to have somebody that's kind of keeping an eye out for that is helpful as well. And I guess the question I have is just, you know, is just to make sure I'm understanding fully is that the tickets are all sold in advance and then no one will be admitted unless they've got a ticket, essentially. So you can't like bring your 10 year old kid because you wanted to bring your 10 year old kid. They just won't be allowed to be there along with someone who bought a purchase a ticket so that someone can't come to not participate in the wine drinking but be inside the rope as it were. Correct. Okay, great. Thank you. Great. Any other questions regarding this application? If not, is there a motion to approve SST-23? May I just point out, I see Mr. Talman with a hand up. I don't know if that's... Mr. Talman? Yeah, I just wanted to make sure something was clear on that. Currently are planning to sell tickets at the door. So to the last question, yes, you still would not be allowed in without a ticket but we were planning to have those at the door. I just want to make sure that that was clear. If it's effectively a cash bar, that's not a problem. Yeah, I don't think it makes a difference. If it was an open bar, like taste whatever wine you wanted, then it would be an issue. I'm curious. So I've been to the light up the night event a number of times, which sort of seemed like that a pay to get in and then have a tasting. How are those permanent? And have we approved that recently as a commission? Oh yeah, sorry. I guess I was... You guys may not be familiar with that. Sorry about that. I mean, I think when we... I don't think we've had to decide about those, but if we have, I think we would want to know what the limits are, but we have Gabrielle with a hand up. Maybe she can help us here. Yeah, Gabrielle. Letting her in. Okay. Good suggestion a couple of meetings ago to promote people to panelists so they can talk, so they can use video if they want. So I am trying that, but it takes a little bit longer to people in. Gabrielle may have to click something to accept, I'm not sure, but I will allow her to talk the old fashioned way either way and nope, here she comes back. Hey Gabrielle. Okay. Sorry about that. I don't know what just happened. Hi. Light up the night, just because I've attended several times. There's one. Plus to there, Gabrielle. That's the only thing. We lost two. We believe is legal under that. I don't know. Can you hear me now? Yes, we missed most of that there, Gabrielle. Yeah, we did. We missed it. Okay. Sorry. I just wanted to clarify that light up the night just because I've attended is a cash bar for any real drinks. And they do have a very small tasting section as other small events do where it is a half or one ounce pour and it's a very small taste and tasting fall under a different like sub category. Yes. A full cocktail is a very different thing or a full glass of wine. That's helpful. Thank you so much. Yep. Yep. Thanks Gabrielle. Sorry. Okay. Any other questions? If not, is there a motion to approve SST-23-17? So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thanks Dylan. Any discussion? Any further discussion? If not, we'll take a vote Gaston. Aye. Doug. Aye. Dylan. Aye. And I vote aye. That is four to zero with one absent. The license is approved. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Appreciate your time. Good luck with your event. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Next we have four temporary outdoor dining applications. Amherst coffee, monkey bar, fresh side and Lavera cruzano. And we did these last year, right Steve? This is just a repeat. Yes. So this is, there was the ABCC advisory just a little while ago that came out that said the takeout cocktails and the temporary outdoor dining, meaning in this case, approved on a more short-term basis so that the full alteration of premises would be extended for another year. So since the ones we did last year were only approved for a year, these are all back exactly as they were just for this next year. And we did receive applications from three of them. But however, Bistro 63 did not get an application in on time. We put them on the agenda because we thought we would, but they didn't get it in yet. So that one, it's not ready. Okay. So we're just approving the three Amherst coffee. All right. Is anybody here for these? Or would these are just? We just believe Gabrielle was going to speak on that. Oh, okay. Gabrielle, thanks. Go ahead. So we are bringing the park with back, just waiting for our building permit. And then the city's government type will rebuild them. They will go in the exact same locations that they were in last year. The bid will hold the town as additional insured and all four of the businesses, if approved, will have an additional insured on the parklets as they did last year as well. I think that they are very well received, respected and enjoyed. And I think that they do make downtown a lot prettier and a lot more vibrant. Okay. Great. Thank you. Any questions for Gabrielle about these? If not, is there a motion to approve the three temporary outdoor dining applications? Amherst coffee, fresh side and lavera cruzano. So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Oh, sorry, second. Oh, sorry. Reading the agenda over here. Not paying attention to the agenda in progress. All right, thanks Dylan. Any further discussion or questions? If not, we'll take a vote. Doug. Aye. Dylan. Aye. Gaston. Aye. And I vote aye. That is four to zero with one absent. Those have been renewed or they've been approved. Thank you, Gabrielle. Thank you everyone. Have a great week. Thank you too. Bye. Okay. Next up are the, oh, this is interesting. Amendments to lunch cart food truck applications. LCFT-1 roosters roaming cantina change of hours. So Steve, do you want to introduce this one? Or do we have people here? Yeah, I will introduce it. We do have Amanda O'Connor here. So this is kind of interesting. Yeah, with the new food truck regulations, there was the provision for food trucks to apply. You know, by default, they get eight to eight, but they could apply for later hours. Roosters roaming cantina is a new food truck that are new to Amherst anyway that came in this year and they've been experimenting around Kendrick Park and they have found that the hours don't quite match up with the demand. And they'd like to explore some more late night service. I will let them give more details on that. But I did run the application by the police chief and fire department and none of them had any concerns with it. Okay, great. Thank you. Ms. O'Connor, welcome. Hi. Thank you for having me. So we made it to Amherst a couple of times. Obviously, you know, with the weather being the weather, you know, it's very hard with food truck during the winter months. It is something that we do do. We have had a very, very good welcoming from the people of Amherst. We have basically been parking over at Kendrick Park and we are getting a lot of notice and a lot of repeat customers already. What we are getting a lot of though are a lot of the younger college-aged kids who are heading out later in the evening to go do their things, whatever it be, going to the bars, hanging out, meeting up with friends and all that type of stuff. And they're stopping in and they're asking how long we're going to be there until. And, you know, obviously the answer is eight o'clock, you know, and they're like, oh, we wish you were here later. We wish you were here later. So we're looking to see if there's a possibility that we could get in and stay in during the later hours to be able to accommodate people that are requesting a lot of that. One of the things that I had mentioned to Steve is that we do have two of those inverter generators. They are the very quietest that you can buy. So they are, I don't want to say noiseless, but they really aren't disruptive to anybody at all, even if you're standing within five feet of them. So I know that that would be one of the big issues that people would have is if we have a generator that's cranking, you know, late until the night and that type of stuff. So we do have the ability to be pretty quiet over there. So, yeah. Okay. And yeah, that's also unpromising. So you want to go, you're applying to be open till one. Is that right? Are we just talking about this right now? Well, we would like to do it. So basically in my letter, like I had said, you know, the food truck season is coming up and we do travel around and we do go to distilleries and wineries and breweries. So we wouldn't be in Amherst every single day. We wouldn't be in Amherst every single day. We are basically trying to get there at least twice a week and set up like so that people know our designated times and dates that we're going to be there. One of the things that we're interested in doing is possibly being there earlier in the day from like 11 to 6 and then, you know, kind of like closing up and, you know, going down. Like I said, Omar has a house in Amherst so we could go park it, you know, in the driveway for a couple hours and then come back, you know, and serve again a little bit later in the evening, you know, as it's warranted. Or if we find all the businesses later on at night, because this is so new and we haven't been there, we really are just trying to get everybody happy. You know, us, the town, the people, everybody. So we're still just trying things out. But yeah, one o'clock. The only thing I do want to say about that is if we do close at one o'clock, we'll probably be there for about 20 to 25 minutes after the 1am, just cleaning up. It takes about 20 minutes to shut down and all that. Okay, great. Thanks. Does anyone have any questions from Ms. O'Connor? Yes, Dylan? I mean, first, I'll say you had me a change of hours. I've been pulling in. I live right off of Kendrick. And I've been looking for the truck, but when I come in late, I don't see you. Yeah. And that's the other thing that's been hard to, it's hard to promote. I've been on the town of Amherst Facebook page. So we're trying to get, we have a couple young kids that a family that live in Amherst. So we're going to send them around with some flyers and that type of stuff. So hopefully we can start getting in there more regularly. The other thing I would consider, though, is bars are really getting out at 1am. And if you're closing up shop at 1am, I mean, would you folks want to be open later than 1am? Would this board, do we have any objection? Or do we support that in Kendrick Park? What are your thoughts as the truck? And then what are our thoughts as the board? One of the things that we love is if we have a line, we want to serve them. So I mean, if people were getting out at 1 o'clock and they did want us to stay there, if we could be there till 2 o'clock, that's the thing is like, we just don't really know. Without having had that opportunity yet to do that, I mean, I would prefer if we could stay. I just didn't know what to write on the application or the letter because we haven't had the opportunity to do all that. If we could do it 2 o'clock, and then if we're done by 130, we could close up at 130. I mean, we don't have to be there either. So if that would work better for everybody, then yeah, it's definitely something that we could do. Yeah, Steve, didn't you say that Rob Mora had some insight into this and then he said there was one restaurant that, and isn't Antonio's open till 10? Yeah, so originally when we were discussing, I was discussing this with Amanda over email, they were thinking about applying for 2 o'clock. And I did bring this up to Rob Mora. He is the only note and this wasn't really him saying, no, it's not possible or advising you not to approve it, but his only thing he thought would be good to share with the board was that under the new zoning bylaw section for restaurants, they are required to close at 1 a.m. And so every restaurant that's been around before that is not subject to those regulations. I believe Antonio's is regularly open past that. But he just wanted to pass that along for the board to consider that doesn't mean he thinks that it shouldn't be approved. Maybe that means there's more demand for food trucks after one. He just thought it would be something to consider. Okay, thanks, Gaston. Yeah, thank you. That's very helpful information. I mean, my reaction to that comment about restaurants having to close is that that's why there's a necessity. And this commission's kind of one of our policy commitments is to try to keep food available where there's drinking. And so I think that observation about the time that other restaurants close is only more reason for the truck to be able to be open. That's one point. Number two, if the issue is that restaurants want to be open later and this inspires them to make the case for it, then I think they should make the case for it. I think, and I appreciate very much, Ms. O'Connor, that you're wanting to cooperate here with us and find the right way to do it. And so I mean, my only thought is that this is a new experiment. And so we just need to, from my point of view, need to be open to hearing neighbors tell us that they've got some issue like this and that we can invite you back to think it through. Yeah, for sure. That sounds great. Like I said, we really want to make it work there too. We really want to be open and available to this committee and everybody. We want to hear the good. We want to hear the bad. We want to know what people want. So that's why we started this food truck so that we could give everybody what we love and share it with everybody. And it just seems like the demand right now just seems to be a little bit more late at night. And like I said, when the summer comes and the weather is a little bit better and the kids are playing at the park, like it may be different and they may want us during the day too. And we're available to do both of those. So. Okay, Doug. Yeah, I think the thing I think about is yeah, the summer hours, summer and school year are very, very different animals than Amherst and, you know, you can talk to the bar owners in town or the restaurant owners in town and the struggles they have in those pretty more businesses for those summer months because it's so quiet in town. But nonetheless, many of them do well as there. They just do better when the school's in town. There's a lot more people in town. So that's the thing I think about. I mean, I appreciate that you mentioned the noise and the fact that you've got the really quiet generators. That's really helpful because then we'll be keeping Dillon up past that time. But I think the other thing I think about and some of this is not entirely your burden to bear, but I think it's a good neighbor thing to do is that a lot of these folks are going to be on foot and they're going to be walking to campus, from campus to campus. So the two things that I think about is how they choose to go through the neighborhoods in and around the campus and the trash that they may be carrying with them or not carrying with them. So I would suggest that any and all reminders to be respectful of which houses they're walking by and how respectful they are from a noise and civility standpoint. But also I think if they're taking stuff and kind of going to go, it's like be mindful of your trash and either throw it away here because we've got receptacles for you to do that. But also it's like, hey, if you don't, make sure to put it, just don't toss it into a yard. We don't want that around town and it's a good neighbor thing that you can do, I think to help. That's just more advice and recommendations for you guys that I think will build goodwill with the folks that live in and around where you guys are working. Sure. And one of the things that we can do right now is we do like to go and we do have styrofoam containers. Unfortunately, it is the way that we do, but when we go to food truck festivals and stuff like that, we do them all in the boats. So it would be something that we could totally consider is if the college kids after hours are looking to eat it, that we could just do it in the boat. At least it's a paper boat and it's a lot more eco-friendly instead of the styrofoam. We could make sure that we just serve them that way instead of the typical, like when somebody calls in a to-go and in a bag to go that way. So we totally, and we can put up signs in the trash, reminding them to be ever vigilant on keeping our parks clean. So for sure, we could do that. Thanks. Thanks, Gaston. And can you, during the day you've been parking on the neighborhood side of Kendrick, is that right? I'm not familiar with the direction side, but if you're coming up from the lights by Amherst College on the left side. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate it, Doug, your point. And I mean, now I'm just brainstorming. So I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I wonder if there's any way that for those late nights, the 8 p.m. to 1 in the morning or whatever it is, it would it be an option for the truck to be on the other side of the park? Precisely for Doug's point that then students would walk home through the rotary, well, perhaps rather than in the neighborhood. I don't know. I don't know if this is at all worth considering or an option. Dylan? Yeah, I mean, I actually think it's a great point. It might even make sense to, I think from everyone's perspective, to maybe even be on that side or even be just in a parking spot, maybe kind of outside of spoke a little bit, because I think one, you're going to get people now don't have to cross that road at night. It's going to be way closer to where I think you're going to get most of your foot traffic there. People are much more likely to congregate there rather than grab their things and leave. So it might be able to help deal with trash safety and improve business as well. Because, you know, do I walk across Kendrick or do I walk up the street to Antonio's? Or do I go to the food cart that's right there? Like I mean, couple drinks in, it is right there. So I think it could benefit everybody to have the food truck move away from Kendrick Park for the later hours. Oh, so you mean like flush up against the sidewalk, like in one of those parking spaces. So have we authorized that? Or we can do that, right? So in the regulations, we just took them, the locations as was in the select road. And the west side of Kendrick Park was noted as a location. Nothing over where we're discussing is. I mean, that's something somebody could request as a special location. And I might suggest a praise street parking lot because at least it's kind of closed than actually on North Pleasant Street. That's a great idea. But that would be something for the board to consider in the future. A praise street parking lot. Okay. I guess I wonder if what we can do this evening is request that Ms. O'Connor follow this up with Steven and Rob Mora. But I think that Dylan's point is extremely, I mean, valuable. It's almost, the better your food is and the more people hanging out at the spoke or other establishments in town are the more dangerous it is to cross there where there's no crosswalk. And so I think it would be really a good idea and extremely good for your business given that the spoke encourages people to bring food in from outside. Yeah, we had spoken to both the spoke and Garcia as to see if they would let us on come in and park in their parking lots. But that did not go over quite as we had hoped. So I don't want to say that they were negative about it or anything, but they just kind of like, oh, we'll get back to you. And then that was just that was just it. So yeah, I would note the zoning is challenging for businesses trying to do those things in their parking lot because usually that has to be approved. It's not in the special permit. So it is a challenge to permit something like that. Okay, so number one, we need to figure out a good parking space for the hours that you are interested in. And Steve, can she kind of work with you and Rob or follow up? So just to clarify your request. So if they wanted to request a special space, I think we had a special provision for that where they would put out the sign and everything. Yes. And they haven't made that request for today anyway. So that would be something I think that would have to be approved by the board after that notice. And I think the hearing was supposed to be posted and the sign, the board could certainly put it on. We have our upcoming agenda's item. We could certainly put on exploring the locations again, the pre-approved locations because they wouldn't have to go through that trouble. And I do believe the late hours can be restricted to specific locations. But right now, roosters is just this allowed in the normal default locations. And the board could choose to allow them to be open late in all possible locations, which would be the west side of Kendrick Park there across from Lavera-Cruzana and up at Sweetser Park or just in that particular location. But we probably would need a further, either an alteration of regulations or for them to make the special location request to be anywhere else. Okay. So yeah, Dylan? I was going to say, well, while we kind of do the bureaucratic wrangling on how to get the food truck where I think we might all like it, how would we feel about approving a change of hours for a temporary amount of time until we can get that settled? Because I mean, maybe they open up 2 a.m. right where they are currently and everything works out great and this is all kind of a moot point for, you know, we see lots of litter and issues and we realize the need for it. I think it would work. And then not waste valuable time because we only got so many weeks here before the end of the semester. I don't have an initial problem with it. I just was wondering with, I mean, it would be great to have it open that light. If we needed neighborhood feedback before we did that. I mean, is that something we were talking about earlier? Gaston, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to try to construct a motion that does what Dylan was suggesting and something like if we approve this request for six weeks in the current location or in any location, I guess, then we give ourselves maybe four weeks to schedule another meeting to get ahead of that, having decided which route we want to take on adding a location if it seems important to do so. So we could just schedule a check-in, basically, in two or four weeks. What does everybody think of that? I would lean more towards to Dylan, Doug. Giving a thumbs up, I like that idea. I would say a check-in is fine. I think that the critical question is that, will that give Amanda enough time to sort of, because they're only coming a couple of days a week, it's like, do we get enough data to understand what's going on, right? And if she has a sense of what the market's like and that we may need a little more time for her to sort of see how this plays out. I mean, I think that's a good question. Because the first week or so, people discover she's open later after the fact. There'll be a little bit of time for discovery. So it may take us four weeks to have a sense of, is this gaining ground in a way that is constructive or destructive either way. I think it's going to take us a little while. So we want to give them an opportunity to have some success. That would be my feedback there, is that I think a check-in is a good idea. I think we don't want to hamstring them to have success and, you know, right. So I think, I think UMass commencement is what May 14th this year. Is that right? It's a little bit later. I think it may be even later than that. I think it's a little more real day. I could be wrong. Oh, is it? Is it that late this year? I haven't looked it up. I should know this. I'm trying to, I don't see our food truck regulations on the home page, our home page. I will email them all to you, or I can even pull them up on the screen if you'd like. You could maybe pull them up on the screen. I just want to see what the, what the time frames were for the posting and neighborhood response. Commencement weekend is May 26th and to May 28th, but yes, I'll. Oh, wow. Okay. I was going to say, I just looked that up 26th. So here is the section in question. Okay. So 10 days before the meeting. Yeah. So we could basically, Doug's point is important about having experience so we can maybe give three weeks of experience to, or maybe come back in four weeks, figure out what, if the location should change, what it should be, planning for that then six weeks from now, which is still before the UMass commencement to approve the location. So that from the four week check-in, deciding about a new location, the sign can go up the next day and then we're ready to go two weeks from then. So that's at the May 4th meeting is the check-in. That's four weeks from now. Because it would be good to be in the location that's going to work for you by the commencement. So the students get to know it and especially because of the crowds. Right. Okay. Does that sound good to everybody? Dylan? Doug? I like it. Yeah. I'm nodding my head though. We're not in the Brady Bunch mode. So Gaston, can you put together some kind of motion that encompasses all of that? Okay. Motion to approve the new hours to go to 2 a.m. for six weeks from now. Planning to have a check-in meeting in four weeks to assess what seems to be the best location for the late night. Sounds great. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Doug. Any further discussion? If not, we'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is 4-0 with one absent. The change of hours and all the other stuff has been approved. Okay, great. Thank you guys. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming in. Yeah, look forward to seeing you. Great. And I will see you all hopefully and see you on May 4th. Yep. Wonderful. Thank you. The new hours expire on the 18th of May and the chair can be on the 4th. May 18th. All right. Wonderful. Thank you guys so much. You have a great rest of your evening. You too. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. All right. So we are... Okay. Well, that'll be interesting to see how it goes. We can try to guarantee the success by going there. Yes, we all have to go there. Okay. I'm almost walking distance from work. Actually, I am walking distance from work. It's a little bit of a hike, but not bad. Has anybody been there yet? I had once. It was pretty good. Oh, was it? Okay. What did you have? I think I got a variety of the different tacos they had. And it was definitely a good lunch. Oh, good. I've passed it twice after eating dinner and seen it. And it's like, well, maybe not. Oh, yeah. Okay. So next thing is D, new looker license applications. And well, we can do D and E because these are just going to be continued until the next meeting. Is that right, Steve? Yeah. So unfortunately, Mr. O'Rourke had a conflict tonight. He did not aware of his coach's high school sports game and they had a high school sports team. They had an important game today. So he wasn't able to make it today. So they requested a continuance until April 20th. Okay. So we're going to do both of these. All right. Is there a motion to continue the new looker license application for the Spoke LLC doing business as Spoke Live on Prey Street from today, April 6th to April 20th? I believe we would need a time certain for that too. So at five o'clock, is that what you mean? Yes. Okay. At five o'clock. Okay. Thank you, Dylan. And thank you, Doug. We'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is four to zero with one absent. But the hearing is continued until April 20th. And the next one is the change of looker license manager application. And is there a motion to continue the hearing for the change of looker license manager application for the Spoke LLC doing business as the Spoke 35 East Pleasant Street from April 6th until April 20th? Same time, Steve? Or five minutes later? We could do that at the same time. We'll support the legal requirements, I think. At five o'clock. Bill moved. Thank you, Dylan. It's a thank you, Doug. Take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. Four to zero with one absent. That hearing is continuing until April 20th. I thought since I wasn't at the last meeting, I thought it best if I didn't make the motion. Okay. So, you know. Right. Much more motion. Just got to make it easy for Steve when he finally does those minutes. Right. Copy and paste comes in very much handy. Okay. So, the next one is Farmer Wine, the application to sell at Farmer's Market, Stony Brook Cider. And this is... The applicant here, I will allow him to talk. Oh, my gosh. Didn't realize he'd been in the room. Okay. Not anymore. Hi, Mr. Lamontane. Thank you so much for coming. And would you like to introduce your application? Mike, we just need you to unmute there. There we go. There we go. Hi, welcome. Thank you. Hi. Yes, I've been selling my hard cider at the Amherst Farmer's Market for six years now. And I'd like to continue. I'm also a member of the Amherst Farmer's Market Committee. And I know all of the ways to check IDs and spot phony ones. And I'm just here to see if I can get another year out of it. Great. Great. Thank you. Any questions? Gaston? Thank you. I just want to double check the time that you're looking for, 7.30 a.m. to 1.30 p.m. Is that right? That's correct. Okay. All right. Very good. That aligns with the farmer market hours, right? They are. Yeah. Okay. For me, do people want cider at 7.00 a.m.? No. I was going to say, jump start your day a little bit there. Most of the people that come in at 7.30, and we usually have a line, but they're all over 50. And most of them are on medications. None don't allow them to drink cider. That's okay. I bring a Kindle. Okay. And then I read till about 10 o'clock, and then I sell my cider. All right. Sounds great. Is there a motion to approve the license for Stony Brook Cider? So moved. Thank you. The second. Thank you, Dillon. Any further discussion? No. We'll take a vote. Dillon? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is 4-0 with one absent. The license is approved. Thank you so much for coming in. And great to read on your Kindle. Okay. Where are we? BLC. Oh, okay. Renewal of Common Victuaries Licenses. So, and these are just left over. Right, Steve? Yeah, we've been going a bit more carefully this year in cross-checking the food license applications with Common Vix. And we've found a few that never quite made it over to OpenGov, so. Okay, great. So, we have two Dunkin Donuts and House of Teriyaki. Is there a motion? I don't think, does anyone have any questions about these? No. If not, is there a motion to approve the Common Vix for Dunkin Donuts and House of Teriyaki? So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thanks, Dillon. We'll take a vote. Dillon? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is 4-0 with one absent. Those are approved. Okay, so discussion topics. And I don't know how much we want to get into this one. Dillon, you have to go at six. Is that right? No. Oh, you don't. No, we don't. I actually, you have to go at six. Okay. So we will, and I know you worked on this a bit, Gaston. So the residential rental property by-law Mandy Joe Henneke couldn't be here tonight, but she did send along the most current regulations and the most recent draft of the by-law. And she asked for our input specifically with the hearing, the appeals process, which I think she took from ZBA because we don't have a formal one as far as I know. And then the fines, which I think they have, and I think the appeals process is listed under the regulation that she sent. And then the fine is under the by-law. And I think it's $300. I was looking at it the other day. So... Well, Steve, I wonder if you might just share in the... Let me see what the title of the document is. The regulations, CRC working, the one that starts with that because that shows the new section at the end in blue line. So it pops out and we can actually, the other one has the text as well, but we can look at it together. The regulations for general by-law? Yeah. Yeah. At the very end of that document is the section on appeals. And I mean, I think we could read it together. And where's the fine? Is that a PDF? It's under... No, it's under... You should have gotten the by-law. I think it's in there. Let me see. Okay. General residential by-law. $300, you're correct, by the way. Yeah, $300. Okay. My recollection from when Mandy visited us is that it was really hard to identify a likely case that would actually come to us. Right. And that our being available for appeals is almost a deterrent. I mean, I think that would be my comment would be to... We've kind of put her on the spot with that question, but it would be to ask her if she could identify two or three of the kinds of possible appeals she thinks we would get. Right. So I'm sorry, you're saying we're not... We don't think we're going to get appeals because we just don't think there's going to be a lot of enforcement or just when it is enforced, nobody's going to appeal to us. So the property owner is denied a residential rental permit. They appeal to us. Like on what grounds would we be able to find that there was an erroneous denial? And if it's based on a technical reason, Steve, can you try to see if you can help me out reconstructing my memory of this, that if it's based on Rob Mora's team's assessment that there's an issue, we're not really in a position to review the judgment that pertains to the denial or revocation. Well, yeah, I mean, I suppose you could review the judgment. I can't really think of many examples where a denial would, I mean, even a core occur or be appealed. I mean, maybe there'd be a, you know, the only example I can think of is maybe there's something that's disputed if there was, you know, oh, this is a two family back in 1950, and it still should be or, you know, but we don't think it is. Maybe I can't imagine too many circumstances like that. I can imagine maybe suspensions or revocations being appealed if they say the violations were, you know, not true violations or something. But I guess it really, I mean, if it's an appeal, maybe that is something that needs a little bit more clarification if it's a complete de novo second hearing of the facts or if it's more of a procedural review. Yeah, I mean, I'm still very, I'm still hazy on it. I'm still not clear what kind of appeal comes to us that we're in a good position to rule against the town, which is what we'd be asked to do. Yeah, I think, oh, sorry, go ahead, Doug. Oh, I was just going to say, the only thing I can think about is if there was, and again, I think this perspective, what Steve was saying is that unless the denial is, they have to apply each year, so it would be a renewal, really a denial of renewal. But more revocation or suspension, and that would be based on sort of evidence, are we going to rehear the evidence? Because there was dispute about it, and it felt as though the, because memory serves, again, remind me if I'm incorrect, a lot of those will be based on code inspection by building commissioner, fire, et cetera. I think it's very rare that we would think that would be some sort of judgment that they made incorrectly. I think the other thing is if it's a suspension until repaired, that could be, you know, and whether or not there's, or if it's a suspension that extends beyond the length of time for repair, if that's even a possibility. So like, if they said, oh, you didn't meet fire code, we're going to suspend you for six months, but it only takes a month to get it fixed, you know, do you have to, you know, they can appeal for reinstatement because there's five months where they're losing revenue. That's, that I'm literally making this up as I go. That's the only case I can kind of think of all about my head. That would be legitimate for us to review. It's like, is this punitive in a way that's unintentional or inappropriate? But I don't know if there's any of those cases that will ever happen. Maybe a thing where it's the revocation or the denial or suspension are going to be, you know, for the entirety of the rest of that license year, right? In other words, if you get, you know, if you get revoked, is it until the next cycle of renewal? So that's a, and I don't, I just, I haven't had a chance to review to see if there's nuance there. Right. Yeah, I mean, I go ahead, Gaston. I was going to say, I believe, excuse me, but I'll just get this out quickly. I believe most of the times you'd see a suspension or something like that is due to repeated code violations and, you know, the, you know, the over occupancy or misconduct like that that's been repeated and not been corrected. I'm not entirely familiar with the newest draft of this, but that's what I would guess. Anyway, Gaston? I was going to ask you, Steve, a question. I mean, we, residential rental permits are now kind of a voluntary application, but have you, is there anything like a denial of one that you have experienced? Yeah, I was trying to rack my brain for this and I'm just kind of speaking completely extemporaneously. I haven't spoken to anybody else in inspection services about this, but I mean, I can imagine maybe a case where, you know, sometimes we'll see things where, you know, for some reason or another some inspector will go to a house and it's listed as a single family in our records, but there's a second unit built in. And sometimes that's just people who build them, you know, kind of under the cover of darkness. And there's also sometimes where, you know, there's one case we've been communicating with where there's a house that's a very old house and it's supposed to be a three family according to our records, but they have four apartments and they listed it as a four, a four, you know, three rental units they would be living there. And, you know, going back through the history, you know, it's even speaking to some people who knew them, we think it was probably the case where there was three apartments and then both mother-in-laws of the couple who lived there moved in and after they passed and they kind of split up the third one, the third apartment, you know, even when they were all living there as a family and then once those people passed and then different relatives moved in, they thought it was different apartments and we didn't really deny that one out of hand, but we have, we've kind of held it pushed, you know, and not issued it. And so maybe that's a circumstance where somebody, I guess maybe that's a constructive denial, maybe somebody would consider that such. I mean, just to use that example, suppose that you denied that and then they appeal, are we really in a position to effectively approve an extra apartment by our decision to overturn your action? It just seems like, you know, a little bit unclear how this is supposed to work to me. Doug? Yeah, I think the question of denial is a really unlikely scenario, but I think the other thing, Steve, you know, you sort of mentioned that case and I'm thinking to myself, well, kind of the assessor is really going to want to know if they've added a fourth apartment because it changes how you value the property and assess the property for purposes of property tax and especially on apartments because they use some metrics around rental and that sort of stuff as part of how they set property tax on properties. So, you know, I think that's, that maybe is a piece of how does the tax, property tax assessment and appeal process work might be helpful and instructed for us in looking at this because there is, you know, if, when we, when your property is assessed, you have the ability to challenge that and appeal that and they have a way in which they go through that and again, that's a circumstance where, you know, a trained professional, a tax assessor is making a judgment about the value of your home and how they do that. Now, granted, it's, there's some art as well as science to that kind of process, but I think it could be a constructive paradigm to look at around some of these questions on how we would work as an appeal board. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I, I did, I have been talking with the assessor a little bit last couple months about these issues. We were kind of comparing notes of, you know, these houses that are, that might be assessed differently than, than what we think they are ever permitted for. And I can imagine in terms of not just the mis, you know, outside of the misconduct type of suspensions or evocations, which I would think would be the vast majority. Oh, shoot. Probably the vast majority of things that would be appealed would probably be weird cases like this with very old, you know, old houses with, you know, that would possibly predate zoning for these types of things that, you know, there's dispute as to, well, was this ever a three family? Was this ever a four family? We don't really know. And I would suspect that if, you know, somebody applied for a rental permit and got, and got the appeal and the license commission said, well, we, you know, we'll, we'll, you know, overturn this denial. I suspect the assessor would go ahead and tax it as such, because, you know, much like you have to, you know, even if it's not really one at the end of the day, you know, much like you have to declare your illegal income on your income taxes. I'm sure they'll still want their cut if it's being used as apartments. Right. I just need to cut in to hop off since it's six o'clock. My request would be for Mandy to come up with two or three plausible appeals and then get Rob Morrow's feedback. And then I'd like to hear that that I think would really be helpful. Okay. To think about it. All right. Thanks, Gaston. See you next time. Bye-bye. All right. So do we want to, okay, so I have Gaston's question, two or three kinds of possible appeals. It would be nice. It would be great to have Mandy here to talk. And then we have, I guess I tied in with that is the two different kinds of property tax and the appeals process probably appeals related to misconduct. Are there any other questions that we want to bring to her or when she comes that we'd like to anything else? Well, I think on the property tax, you know, appeals process, I mean, I think talking to the assessor will be, you know, how that works. There's a formal like state level, like when you, you know, the sort of recent high profile version of that is, is in Leverett, the Kittridge property, it challenged the, the valuation and they won. But, you know, so I think the actual appeal process is maybe handled by a state level office. I'm not suggesting it, but I'm just saying it's like getting some sense of how they evaluate those kinds of challenges on that sort of next level that gets outside of in, in the property tax circumstance, it's going to be outside the town's, you know, purview at that point when they get that, that kind of challenge, there's either a Hampshire County person or a statewide person that does that for review, but the criteria they use and how they go about it might be helpful for us to learn about. Okay. All right, criteria. Okay. All right. So anything else on this topic? Yeah, Dylan, sorry. I just want to ask Steve, you were at, you were at the ZVA meeting last week, right? Last week, I don't know if I was, if you remember what the topics were. Was the, the, we were reviewing that special permit that was going in right across the street from Gaston? Oh no, I was not there for that one. I sent out some things about it, but I wasn't there. Got it. Yeah. So I know, you know, Gaston does raise a lot of, what's that? I know. Now that you mentioned that I was, yeah, sorry. Yeah, because Gaston has raised I think some good points because I know, so what we had come to us last time on the CVA was a case where it was a special permit that had already been approved, but it was worded in such a way that if any modifications to the permit should be done, it just has to come back to the board for review. And it put us in a weird situation where there are pretty substantial changes to the plan where it almost looked like a new plan, but you know, according to, to Rob Mora, we were in a position where we couldn't really deny the permit because it was still within the definition of the special permit, but we were still in a position where we had to, we still had to go through the approval, but approval was effectively our only option. So I think it is a concern that we might end up with an appeals process where it's like, yep, you've appealed it and procedurally, the only thing we're allowed to do is deny your appeal. So yeah, I think it's, I think it's a, it's a good point that we got to think of to make sure that we're not just building a big no machine. So if you're actually for no real value. Yeah. Yeah. But that was kind of like they, I think part of her point was she was here last time is that they needed somewhere to have to do the appeal and we're the ones who have done it in the past. So we're going to be doing this one. And I don't disagree that there needs to be an appeal process. I think we, I think what we're really seeking is are there circumstances like should denial be included in that? Right. And if it is, then what are the cases where we could actually materially reverse the denial or, you know, or, I mean, we need to have the ability and the criteria to kind of go either way. Otherwise, you know, as Dylan says, we're just a big either no machine or yes machine, one of the one, you know, like in that TVA example, it's like, Oh, they have to review it, not review it and make a determination about whether it still qualifies, which is the language probably missing. It sort of handcuffed them in that way. So we don't want to be handcuffed. Exactly. Okay. All right. So let me actually decide to be honest. Right. Okay. So I'll email her back and try to get her to a meeting so that we can ask all these questions. And I'll forward any the questions that we do have to her. Is there anything else on this before we know? Okay. Great. So next up is sort of last discussion item. And that's the agenda for the meetings going forward. Yes. So we will be meeting on the 20th and on May 4th and the 18th. And I guess we've got a little bit of something coming up for each of those now. But I guess in terms of longer term things, I can speak to one marijuana. And I think we'd left this off a while ago, Doug, that we were going to discuss with staff. And I did have a good meeting with the finance director. I brought it up with the town manager a couple of times. And frankly, we've all been super, super busy over the winter. And it's probably about time to circle back with that. So I just want to get a sense of where the administration is planning to go with, you know, the host community agreements and things like that and what they, where they think the license may fit into that. But I can try to, you know, catch up with the finance director and Paul and see what their thoughts are so we can start moving forward with that again. Yeah. Just one quick question. I know that there was some potential legislative action relative to those community agreements because, you know, it was unclear and there's been a lot of debate back and forth about what communities can or cannot charge, you know, and to what extent they can, you know, sort of levy payments from the license, well, not licensees, but the, I guess, licensees. The establishments, have you heard any more from the legislative front about whether clarified the rules around host community agreements and the persistence of them or something like them? Yes. I can, I don't think I've heard, if I remember correctly, I think the state law did change a little bit possibly in the face of some encroaching litigation. And I think there was still some things to be determined going forward at about that time. That would have been, you know, the last time we were really focusing on this. Right, right. To my knowledge, I don't know if there's been any developments since then, but there may have been. So we could definitely look into that. Yeah. If you have, you know, even if you just find the old stuff you had, if you could forward that to me because I think what I was envisioning doing, and I haven't had a moment to do this myself. So I can be, you know, I've been in plenty of meetings with both the town manager and his director on other topics. So I know they've been busy because if I see them as regularly as I have seen them or talked to them on the phone, I know that they've been, you know, pretty busy. So I appreciate this isn't first on their list. But I think the thing I was thinking about was to, is if we wanted to fold some of the aspects of the host community agreement into the license process, then we just need to sort of articulate what those pieces are. And I've got from Jeff Kravitz, who was our business development person that really led the first, you know, sort of approval process and host community agreements. He gave me sort of the template that's been used in existing ones. You know, there are certain components of that that we can basically make part of the licensing process. You know, I would start by kind of trying to fold those things in and, you know, start to shape that language. I think the stuff we have in there now for the license around process procedure, that's where things fine. This is really more augmentative additional stuff that would go in. I'm just going to find the right section in the right sort of verbiage to sort of articulate those, those requirements that are in host community agreements that now could be part of the license and license renewal. Yeah, absolutely. That's that's pretty much the crux of what I'm trying to try to get a sense of what they're thinking is, is yeah, where they see that line being drawn. So we'll definitely get some more clarity with that. I will send an email to Sean right after this meeting. Yeah, I can just tell my colleagues that 420 won't happen. So I don't know that you need to put it on the agenda. You know, I mean, I might, if, if, if things go perfectly, I might have an opportunity to like look it over a little bit. So I might be able to sort of give you more context, but not any, there won't be any work product to look over. So probably more like May 4th or so before we get there. So we won't worry about it next time. I think hopefully I'll try to get Mandy for next time for our discussion item. Is there anything else we're going to talk about? But we've also got our license at the, the Spoke Live. Oh yeah, the license at the Spoke Live is coming up next time. Did you, did you do any actual hearing on, on last meetings? I missed last meeting. No, we, we opened it and continued it. Oh, okay. So there's not been any discussion of the, of the license today, okay. No, we had a, a, we were not really able to make quorum last time and thankfully Dillon was able to stop by for 20 minutes and we got through what was absolutely necessary and did not get through much else. So we didn't even open that one, or it's opened technically, but we didn't really start discussion of that one yet. I was in that, I remember correctly, I was in some negotiations, couldn't really miss that one. Sorry. That happens. Yeah. I had a, sorry, I just had a friend in town, all of a sudden I'm like, well, I, we've got four other people I'm sure they'll be able to handle the meeting that night. Yeah. No, it went, it went fine. We did it fast. It was fast. It was good. Okay. So we'll just, so right now we've just got rental registry for the bylaws for next time and with Mandy, hopefully, and the spoke hearings. And were there any other discussion things we were going to work on this year? I can't remember. I don't know. I'll have to go back to my notes. Okay. Yeah, I don't think of anything off the top of my head either. Yeah. Because I think lunch cards and marijuana and all right, lunch cards is made forth. Okay. Topics not anticipated 48 hours prior to the meeting. Any topics? No. Okay. I have nothing. All right. Great. In that case, is there a motion to adjourn? They'll move. Thank you. Is there a second? Thanks, Doug. I'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is three to zero with two absent were adjourned at 611 p.m. All right. Thanks, everybody. All right. You all have a good Easter lunch. Yeah. Don't forget or pass over or whatever. So. Yeah. Oh yeah. You too. Yeah. Good night. Happy Easter. You too as well. Bye-bye. Bye Steve. Thanks. Thank you, everybody.