 So many people have been speaking about the climate crisis, but the real question is why is it that we're still not acting at the scale and speed that is necessary? For 150 years, we've built up a world based on the assumption that we can exploit the planet for free and it translates to very dramatic impacts happening right as we speak. The climate crisis is a threat multiplier, which means it exacerbates existing inequities in our society. We need to remember we're on the same planet and this is the planet that we need to make sustainable for the whole of humanity. Making much faster progress toward all 17 sustainable development goals is the best pathway to adjust future for all and public-private partnerships will be absolutely crucial to this transition. We know that this transition will require a fast adoption of a lot of new technologies and the question today is how to find the appropriate way to finance this technology. Younger generations are demanding a sense of purpose. They want to look at companies and say, I am investing with you all for this reason. The solutions are there. What we need is governments to regulate, to invest and we need business to act with values. History will look at us, people, politicians, corporate leaders. These times require not only solutions but speed. There is nowhere else to look than the mirror. We are the ones that need to do this. I'm Paulette Frank, the Chief Sustainability Officer at Johnson & Johnson, the world's largest and most diversified healthcare products company. And I am thrilled to be your moderator for today's session focused on the nexus of climate and health and to focus on the importance of multi-sector partnerships as well as tailoring interventions to the communities they're intended to serve. As the Chief Sustainability Officer at Johnson & Johnson, I'm responsible for leading our work on climate change, both to reduce our carbon footprint of our business as well as playing a role to support communities and the healthcare workforce who are on the front lines of climate change today. That is why I'm really, really excited to host my esteemed panelists today. And as a company that has been supporting Climate Week for the past six years and bringing the topic of health to the conversation of climate change, I'm so excited that climate and health has seemed to have arrived and it is part of central to so many conversations and sessions planned for this week, starting with this one. So let me introduce our panelists. I am joined today by Dr. Vanessa Carey, who is the Chief Executive Officer for Seed Global Health and Special Envoy for Climate Change and Health at the World Health Organization. I'm also joined by Dr. John Balbus, who is the Director of Office and Climate Change and Health Equity at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. And we're also joined today by Dr. Jamila Mahmoud, who is the Director of the Center for Planetary Health at Sunway University in Malaysia and is also a board member of Roche. And all of our panelists today are also doctors and medical professionals and experts at the nexus of climate and health. So we'll jump right in. So we'll start with you, Dr. Carey. First of all, congratulations on your role as special envoy, the first special envoy on climate and health with the World Health Organization. Can you tell us a little bit about your work, both at Seed and in your role as special envoy with the World Health Organization? Thank you, and thank you for moderating today. I think as we shared a little bit earlier, it's really important to be engaging these conversations with private sector, public sector, government, NGOs, civil society to think about how we're going to solve this problem at the intersection of climate and health because the reality is climate change is killing us. It's not tomorrow, it's today. Already 7 million people die a year from air pollution. That's one person every five seconds. And that's more than we saw in the entire COVID pandemic. We had an entire city washed away in a single storm last week. And that, you know, families that we have lost. So we are seeing this every day with increasing acceleration, increasing rate. And so at Seed Global Health, the nonprofit that I run, we've been doing investments in health systems, we've been strengthening now for over a decade. And we focus primarily on training the healthcare workforce because health is a human-centered intervention. And as much as we want AI and technology and that can drive transformation, it doesn't hang the bag of blood when a woman is in hemorrhage. It doesn't hold someone's hand when they are dying. And we have to realize that as we are engaging in the health sector, we need a healthcare workforce. And there's a global shortage. In sub-Saharan Africa, where we do the majority of our work, that shortage is actually very severe, such as 37, 38 countries out of 54 facing critical shortages. And what that means is that a quarter of the world's burden of disease is on that continent, but only 3% of the world's healthcare workforce and only 1% of the world's healthcare expenditure to rectify that. So we're trying to fix that. We're trying to fix that by training healthcare workers who can be on the front lines of providing quality care. And we've trained almost 34,000 doctors, nurses, midwives and service over 74 million people. But the reality is our work is getting harder from climate change. So we've seen in Malawi, for example, a country we've been in for 13 years, we've been having to help respond to their cholera outbreak that just happened, which was the longest and worst cholera outbreak in the country's history, such that schools shut down, businesses shut down, tens of thousands got sick, thousands died. And that was all because of climate change, because of tropical storms that came over the Southern part of Africa and compromised the water. It turns out too that the strain of cholera that they had, the same strain we saw in the Pakistan floods in 2021, which just highlights the fact that we're also interconnected in this problem. And we share the crisis and that what's happening in health and happening in climate doesn't respect borders. So as we were engaging in our work at SEED, we were in a very, we've worked closely with the World Health Organization and really been pushing for people to want to invest and understand the need for investing in a workforce. And what we started to highlight was that we talk a lot about the mitigation in climate change and reducing, and we'll talk about this later, the healthcare sector's contribution to the greenhouse gas emissions, but the reality is we've to adapt. Because as I started, climate change is killing us today. So we have to strengthen our health systems and we have to build out a workforce that can meet the burdens of disease that are coming down from climate change. And so in this role as special envoy of climate change and health, the goal is to start to transform the advocacy and understanding of the nexus of climate change and health and how it affects us, whether it is non-communicable disease, vector-borne diseases, mental health, trauma, maternal health, but also to increase the financing and the public-private partnerships that we can create to solve these solutions and to really show the transformation that can happen. And then to be in partnership and advise the World Health Organization on where there's opportunities. And I think just to speak to one final piece, we have a huge opportunity this year. COP28 is gonna feature for the first time ever a day of health that is focused on that nexus of climate change and health. And it's not about that one day. It's about the launch point and the creation of a new movement we can create that will continue hopefully into Davos, that will continue to the Munich Security Council, that is continue until we actually really start to see the meaningful change we need. Can you dig a little bit more into how you think multi-sectoral partnerships can help either accelerate or amplify your work? Absolutely. I mean, I think that we, first of all, we are deeply interconnected on this planet. It's not like malaria gets to the border of Botswana and says I'm not going any further to South Africa, right? I mean, there's no way to avoid our interconnectedness through health and we saw this in COVID and we've seen this in countless different ways. So that means we're all responsible to be a part of the solution. And I think also the scale of what we're seeing in climate change right now is so rapid, so unbelievably apocalyptic and prophetic at this point that we all have to put all hands on deck, which means we have to get very creative about collaboration. So no one industry can do it alone and each sort of sector has its strengths, right? Government can be an unbelievable source and I know this might be very scary for some corporations but regulation, there is a role for it sometimes in a way that can help spur creativity and solutions and we should be thoughtful how we engage in regulation and think about ways that it can be done with ease for all of our benefit and in a way that we all have buy in, right? But there's also the safety net that can come from government that's incredibly powerful. But there's a role for philanthropy. Catalytic funding can be needed because sometimes the banks or other, the IFIs don't have the ability to sort of mobilize funding in a very quick and easy and catalytic way but philanthropy can and can kickstart a process of public-private partnership where you can come in and create a model that actually does have a positive return on economic investment that can be exciting for a private corporation that can drive part of their business model for good and then you've got a government role that can help bring that to scale and can really then pick up and provide some of the safety net pieces that need to happen. But so I think, so we have to realize that we have a shared desire for the same outcome here and the question becomes, how do we bring our individual strength, bring our individual mandates because everybody has a mandate that they need to respect and we should own that and be pragmatic about it but think about how we can bring that all together to create the kind of positive social good that we need and I guess the final point I would say is to realize that our sustainability today, our survival depends on our ability to find that positive pathway forward and we are gonna need businesses and private sector to act responsibly in this moment. This cannot just be about the most profit, it actually has to be about the most good because the business models for them are gonna be dependent on our planetary health and well-being and so there is a role to think about how you achieve that pathway for private sector. Equally, governments have to think about how do you come to meet halfway on that? Civil society needs to stake the needs and the priorities in a way that we can be in service to that and to the people and to the local and proximal context. Sorry, I mean, there's a lot to say about it. So just one more question on that. So the power of partnership is clear. What do you think gets in the way? What do you think are the barriers to partnership? You know, I think a couple things are the barriers to the partnership. I think one, the value systems that we live by today are kind of skewed. We have for a long time been thinking about what the economic bottom line is and we measure based on economic success. I just saw a quote that WHO had an article that came out that said that economists measure the price of everything and the value of nothing. And I think that the reality is that we have to decide that we are gonna value and measure something different. And so there's a well-being agenda, right? This idea that we don't just measure GDP growth because that doesn't actually reflect the inequalities happening within a country or within communities or gender inequity or that it doesn't measure so much of what makes our life real and human, right? So we need to think about what does it mean to have well-being? Does it mean to have people be happier, have less inequity? How much time do you spend with your family? Are you healthy or are you stressed? What is your mental health burden? And I think we're really an existential moment in time where we have to think about that. And I think that actually is gonna be a pathway to more sustainable business and better profit and kind of a more sustainable system if we change the metrics by which we're living in, we're measuring and we're valuing. I think the other thing is that we have stopped communicating, we stopped listening, we stopped finding that shared value, whether it is the private sector, to government, to civil society. And so we get entrenched, right? And we kind of harden ourselves and we live in our small communities and we aren't thinking about how we find that shared value together. And I think that's the second thing. And the third thing is I think people feel the problem is too big, right? I work in workforce. I've seen so many people not wanna invest in workforce because it takes too long, it costs too much. How do you measure the benefit? Well, I can tell you in a year and a half of working in Sierra Leone where we built out a midwifery training program in partnership with one of the districts in the public sector there. We went from seeing the district had 40% of the maternal mortality in a country that has the highest maternal mortality rate in the world, 50 times the risk of dying in childbirth and in the United States where I live. And through education, training, and public-private partnership, we were able to actually reduce maternal mortality in the district such that there were zero maternal deaths for the first five months of 2023. So it is possible and that took a year and a half. That's it. Think about the number of lives we saved. So we have to stop thinking about these problems as impossible. We have to stop thinking about these problems as too big. We have to recognize the timelines are long but the urgency to make the right decisions is now. And then you have to realize there is absolutely no such thing as too ambitious for the moment we are in today. I love harnessing that shared ambition of health and happiness even at a human level. I think we can all relate to that. Dr. John Balbus, congratulations to you too on your new appointment as director of the Center on Climate Change and Health Equity. Can you share more about how climate change is actually impacting human health, both non-communicable and communicable diseases? Sure, let me start with the non-communicable diseases or I'll call them NCDs just for short because we don't have a ton of time. The NCDs are really closely linked with climate change. And if you just think about the experience of the summer that we had in the United States here, for example, smoke in New York City, this incredible heat wave that didn't go away throughout so much of the country, the devastating floods and hurricanes. It's, and then you think about the NCDs. You think about people who have asthma, diabetes, coronary artery disease, lung disease, and you know, don't forget the cancer and perhaps the most important NCD, depression. Those are the people who are most likely to have a bad outcome from all of those climate stressors. And this is also where we start getting into well-being and equity as well because if you look at communities, again, certainly in the United States, the rates of those NCDs, the rates of asthma, diabetes, heart disease, lung disease are much higher in communities of color and low-income communities that have experienced historical discrimination. Some of the most striking examples of this are the maps of redlining in this United States, a discriminatory practice that deprived communities of financial resources. Those are the communities that have the worst health disparities and the highest rates of NCDs, and they're also the communities that have in many cases the highest urban heat islands and the exposures to heat. Or if you look at the maps of Katrina after the floods, the neighborhoods that have the worst flooding were often historically redlined maps. So that points to the solution space because for addressing the health impacts of climate change and have resilient communities, we have to go upstream to those health disparities. We have to go upstream to reduce those rates of NCDs so that those aren't the communities where people are most affected and least able to cope with the heat or with the bad air pollution days. In terms of communicable diseases, there's simple rules. We're seeing a lot of certainly the vector-borne diseases and even a lot of the water-borne diseases marching northward and upward. So we have malaria marching up the slopes of the Himalayas. We have flesh-eating bacteria, Vibrio parahemolyticus moving up towards the coast of Alaska. We're seeing the colder parts that used to keep infectious diseases away are becoming warmer and we're seeing diseases creep into those areas. And then, of course, this also goes along with the equity because people who are in outdoor occupations, people who are experiencing homelessness are most vulnerable. And then, as we see after the hurricanes, it's the people who are without the resources to move away or who lose their homes and are devastated by the hurricanes. That's when some of the infectious diseases follow from either vector-borne diseases or water-borne diseases. Can you share a little bit about the programs that your office is working on to help support the health care system and the communities that they serve? Sure. I mean, it aligns very much with this. Our approach in our office is, first of all, to work in close partnership with all of the Department of Health and Human Services. So one of the aspects of the solution space is it's not just a physical health problem, it's a physical and mental health problem. We have to address those two things together. And so we're working on community-based solutions that not only provide services but also provide hope to young people, for example. So that's one of the best ways to counter the despair that we see from climate stressors. But the other part of the Department of Health and Human Services is that it's health and human services and it's actually the biggest grant-making organization in the world supporting low-income populations. Folks in the human services side have not really seen their role as being necessarily supporting environmental justice or environmental health. And yet the issues of household energy, the issues of home and food security that human services agencies deal with are fundamental to addressing the stressors and really keeping people healthy in the face of climate change. So we are working very closely, for example, with the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program to be able to help them target the most at-risk communities from heat. They were set up to protect people from the cold, but now they really needed to protect communities from heat and to help with electricity payments for that. So the other part of today's conversation is around the importance of tailoring interventions to the community's needs. Can you talk a little bit about how tailoring interventions and communities, how you learn from communities and build that into the interventions that you're focused on? Yeah, and as a federal government person, that's one of the things that's most challenging because the solutions, the ideas, and the need for leadership and ownership are hyper-local for climate change. It really is about the street corners, not even the cities. And so the way that we're approaching that as a very small and as yet not congressionally supported office is through partnerships and through working with very specific communities. We had one project this year where we partnered with the Administration for Children and Families on the Human Services side and with our regional offices to sit down with 14 communities around the country to understand what's working and what's not working from a federal level. The entire federal government is actually struggling with this now as a lot of funds have come in to get out to the communities at the community level in multiple agencies. It really has to be a situation where the communities are supported in accessing the funds. It has to be sustained the ability to have those funds and the communities ultimately have to be designing, owning and sustaining their own programs. One other way that we're, or one model and one way we're approaching this is working through a model from the Urban Sustainability Directors Network and several other organizations have worked on creating resilience hubs. They're usually funded by multiple, different agencies, multiple streams of funding, but they're community designed, community trusted, community managed, and community sustained, but supported by multiple funds, by private philanthropy, by private sector, city, state, federal government. That's, I think, the best model and what we're working to do is to, the whole concept of resilience hubs is that they're 365 days a year. They're not just emergency shelters. They're service providers 365 days a year that support the community, build the resilience, but then can be the refuge, can be the shelter in the setting of a disaster. And we're working to integrate health services into that multiple service model, in part because the funding streams of health services are a very sustained source of funding for a lot of communities. I just wanted to also circle back. You had mentioned that mental health or depression, one of the most important NDCs. Can you dig in a little bit more on the connection between climate change and mental health? May not be obvious for some. It's a relatively new area of scientific literature and study, but the surveys that are done, especially in youth and young adults, and there are a couple of studies out there that just show really devastating rates of concern about the future, of extreme stress, of concern about having children. And in some studies, Frank Depression, that are associated with concern about the future. We as parents all see this, we see this anecdotally, but there are global surveys actually that have looked at multiple countries around the world showing this. And we hear it from the voices of youth as well. There's tremendous concern and depression and anxiety about the future and that what is needed is not, is action, is action to address the problem and to see that path to where the problems actually get effectively addressed. Yeah, I have two teenagers at home and I know it is definitely a topic that's on their minds, unfortunately. Dr. Mahmood, welcome, thank you for coming and being with us today. Can you share a little bit about your work at the University, Sunway University? Sure, well let me go back a little bit. I am a medical professional and an obstetrician and gynecologist by training, but a humanitarian, chose a humanitarian career over the last 20, 25 years. And having seen so many of these crises that you yourself have seen, Dr. Kerry, you kind of feel at some point that the climate crisis is now producing more and more health issues, so you see it firsthand. I vividly remember seeing the issues around women giving birth on trees in floods and you think it happened 20 years ago, then just before COVID going to Mozambique, hearing the same story again. So, I came to a point where I said, enough is enough, we've got to stop putting ban aids on huge gaping wounds and start getting into systems and looking at how do we now shift the conversations and the action that needs to follow because we live in a very siloed world. The humanitarians do humanitarian work. The development world does development work. The climate people do climate work, but the people are the same. For a humanitarian development or a health worker, the person who is impacted has needs and how then do we create this sense and understanding that is all connected. So, I was very much attracted to the whole planetary health model of systems shifts that need to happen for us to recognize and I think I love what you said about values because what is our return of values rather than return of investment? What is our position? We live in the age of the Anthropocene. It is us, human beings that are driving the change that we're seeing on the planet, both for the good and for the bad. I believe in a glass half full. So, just as we have created a lot of damage, we have also the innovation, the intelligence, the capacity to find solutions. So, we set up a center in Malaysia, why? Because I had been living in New York and Geneva for many, many years, but I said, Asia is really, if you like, the supermarket of disasters, right? All the climate disasters that you're going to see is going to happen in Asia. Any infectious disease outbreaks, a lot of them emerge from Asia as well. We need to start gathering that knowledge, being advocates, playing our role on this global platform and sharing our ideas as well and our research and our stories. And the center that I head is in a smallish private non-profit university, but over two years that we've been established, primarily driven by COVID. And I must say that the pandemic was an opportunity. I think all over the world, people realize how important health was. How now do we take that emotion of the health, the health factor is so critical? But guess what, guys? The climate crisis is creating more health issues than you can ever imagine, but no one has been able to make that link in the past. I think we are living in an age now at a time now where we need to grasp these opportunities and work together and really build on that, right? And I want to ask you a question about that for a moment though, because you're right. I feel the same way about COVID taught us all these lessons learned and we should be incorporating that and the climate crisis is going to be so much worse. But I believe we were talking before we started the panel about people forgotten and don't care. So how do we keep that front and center? Yeah, absolutely right. We were just talking about it earlier that have people forgotten about COVID, right? So I think it's about the storytelling element. I think that a lot of the things we say on health are very doom and gloom, very, very much, you know, even on the climate issues, right? We, to the extent that people feel like, I can't deal with this anymore, I can't do this. But telling, you know, really inspiring stories about what is possible if we work together, your story about the maternal health in Malawi. Sierra Leone. Sierra Leone, right? I've done the same thing in Sudan, in Darfur. With very little resources actually, you can create high impact. Why? It's because you work with communities, you work with local resources, you have the ability to listen, to have empathy and develop solutions are very, very local, very, very relevant to the people who are trying to help. So similarly, I think with the climate crisis, we've got to bring those stories out, that sense of possibility, right? If I can tell you in Indonesia, you know, there's a place in Kalimantan where people were just chopping down the forest because they needed to raise money for healthcare. But the minute you sit with communities and say, here's how you do it, a local organization called Astri, working with health in harmony, says, we'll give you the resources to establish a health clinic, we'll provide the training and the capacity and all the support, they stop the deforestation and they find that they have other means of economic livelihood, their families are healthy. That's what people want, ultimately. So coming back to the center, it's a bit of a think and do tank and we're trying to influence policy because at the end of the day, I'm quite tired of big meetings because there's a lot of talk, there's a lot of ambition, but what we want to see is real action on the ground and I think it's people like you, Dr. Carrie, people like you, people like me and others, so many around the world that are doing things. How do we tell people now that sense of possibility and how do we inspire whether it's governments, private sector, civil society, young people to give them hope that actually the solutions are actually out there? So in my country, we have pushed very, very hard on this and we've managed to convince our government that we need a plan. If we have a crisis, we need a plan. So we are now developing what we call a national planetary health action plan to look at how do we tackle the health issues but also the other issues that are befalling on the climate crisis, for example, on our economy, on young people's employment, on education and again, taking that sentiment of the pandemic when schools were closed for so long. We in Malaysia, we had closed for very long, too long and we're going to lose a generation of young people who have missed school. We don't want that to happen because of the climate crisis as well but that's going to happen when schools get closed and roads get flooded and people have no access to education because not everyone has the internet or the internet could go down. So how do you now reimagine the sense of possibility and I think ultimately it falls to a couple of things. One, you need to have the right governance in place and political will without which nothing will happen. So all the talk we have governments will not take the right action and put the resources where it's needed and bring people to the table to create those solutions. It won't come from the government. The creativity is sometimes outside the government system, right? Two is how do we communicate science? How do we build that compelling narrative? How do we get that sentiment when doing the pandemic when everybody wanted to help everybody else? How do we bring that notion that no one is safe till everyone is safe which was the mantra during the pandemic, right? So what different forms of communication do we need? And the third, this I feel very strongly is an education revolution. As a doctor, I was not taught about climate and health. When I go back to many medical schools around the world they are still not taught about climate and health but look at what we have done with the ozone when we were taught from very young about how important it was to protect the ozone layer, right? I mean, there are success stories. So for us at some way what we've managed to do and I think thanks to the university they have accepted the proposal that every undergraduate student from 2024 will have to complete a seven week course on planetary health and they must pass before they can graduate. So whether you're an engineering student, a culinary art student, whether you're a communication student an engineer, a medical science student you learn the basics and you learn how to apply it in your profession because this is the long game. How do we make leaders think very hard about the decisions they make, the investments they make because that will have an impact on the planet and on health. And how can we get people to talk about health not just us, right? The success of us talking about climate and health will be when non-health people talk about health and how that's so important because of the climate crisis. So these are some of the things we're doing but you know and I think ultimately this whole notion around partnerships, you know, I think when partners come together and that vision is clear and you know we can easily talk about equity but equity means very different things to different people and I think at the end of the day it's about listening to people who are actually suffering from the climate crisis and hearing from them they may have the solution. Sometimes we don't listen enough, right? And how do we co-create with the private sector that have the resources to be innovative, to use technology, leverage on and bring that human factor back in ultimately it's about values, empathy, the sense of everyone having, you know, one for yourself, what you want for your neighbour or anybody else, right? Those sense of core values that are quite lost to be honest in this day and age. We seem to be, you know, a world population that seems to be so lost in so many things and I think coming back to economics, how do you measure success? Can I ask you, you have a unique opportunity to work with students. What is on their minds when it comes to climate and its impact on health in particular, what are they talking about and how are they part of the solution? I think students are different wherever, you know, in different parts of the world, right? For many students, I think, you know, there's some anger, resentment at our generation of what we've done, you know, and this notion that, you know, the future generation will pick this up. No, you know, we, the current generation, have to start solving the problems today, right? Don't just pass the buck to the future generation. I think that we owe to them. The second, I think, there's also a sense of hopelessness in some ways. We talked about mental health and the research that has been done on mental health has shown that it's actually the people who are most vulnerable have most mental health issues. You'd think that mental health, you know, to many people in the developing world, oh, that's a disease of those who are developed, who are, you know, who are rich, richer, you know, they can afford to have mental health issues because we're busy trying to put food on the table, but it's not true. The evidence now is showing that those who are impacted by the climate crisis are actually the ones suffering the most from mental health issues. So I think it is a creeping issue, but the long-term implication of that is on the workforce, is on, you know, at the end of the day, is economic growth as well, right? So how do we now, you know, give young people a sense of hope as well? You know, they're marching on the streets in New York with so much passion and, I guess, frustration, but also hope that we will do something. I think we owe it to them that, you know, we also co-create solutions with them and not for them. I also really want to just pick up where you went with that, which was the power of narrative and the fact that change is embodied within stories. And I actually think this is a fabulous role for the private sector. I mean, there's nobody who puts more effort into telling good stories than the private sector about what they've accomplished and what they're about and what, you know, what their values are. And they have the knowledge of how to do that. And it's just a question of control, you know, who's controlling the narrative that we see. So often we see this doom and gloom narrative or we see a narrative that says that, you know, taking action will be bad for the economy or taking action is worse than the problem itself. Absolutely. The narrative needs to be... Changed. Changed and put out there in a compelling way. I like where you went with that. So where do we derive hope? Where does hope come from for each of you? I think hope has to come from each and every one of us. We have to believe that, you know, the, you know, it is a crisis at hand at the moment we are dealing with. But with the power of human beings to create solutions is, you know, unimaginable, right? There are many things that are happening today that you would never imagine will happen 20, 30 years ago. I think that sense of hope is so important for us. But the other thing, of course, is calling to account. Those who are responsible, we need to talk about fossil fuels. We need to do something about this. We can't just, you know, allow this to carry on. We need to have, you know, a real commitment and political will to transition quickly and safely without fossil fuels. Because ultimately, whether you're talking about pollution or whether you're talking about microplastics in our circulation now, who knows where that's going. It's all arising from fossil fuels. So until and unless the elephant in the room is put there and addressed, I think we cannot, we'll be just talking for the next 20 years. You know, I think, I drive Hope Room 1, there is no alternative. So I believe in our human power to rise to the occasion. We have done it in the past and we can do it again. And I think if you look at the tools at our disposal now, we have an unprecedented amount of science, technology, education, understanding, learning at our fingertips that we just need to start to exercise for the common purpose in many ways. And I also draw Hope, you know, it's interesting. I've been in a debate with folks this whole week and the week's what, one day old, but about the generation that's in power and in control, right? And we do have an older generation that retains much of the power and the policy and the control and sort of the money in the business in many ways. And, but I think the power of young people speaking to the narrative, to demand something different and demand change and to really start to challenge that, you know, whether you love the millennials or whatever generation we're talking about, they're great at having the audacity to challenge for something different. And those are the questions we need right now. Now it's incumbent on us, and I'll include myself in this as an older generation to listen and to help think about how we partner with that generation to create the change too, but we need activism again. You know, I grew up with parents who grew up in the 60s, which was a period of intense activism. And we had a whole debate about whether, you know, activism was dead or not in this moment. I don't think it's dead. I just think we have different channels by which we are executing it in. But it's out there. And I think it's a question for us now to link that to that unbelievable knowledge and technology to drive our change. And I think it's about having the conversations like this. At places like the World Economic Forum, at places like UN General Assembly, Climate Week, in the boardrooms of the private sector companies about what is the value we're gonna drive. I have hope we can do that because we're all gonna sit here and have that conversation and push forward. But make no mistake, we're gonna have to be louder, more vocal about it. But I am an optimist at heart, and there is hope. But trust me, I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure that we're demanding the kind of change that we need right now and that we're having a different kind of conversation and that we're rising to the occasion in the way that we have to. And I'd like to think that people's egos and legacies will actually get behind that mission, even if they're just moral sense can't. And that's the third or three on this. I will completely endorse what was said, but also come back to something that Dr. Mahmood said, which is, we see time and time again that when the noise is stripped away and there is a really important crisis facing us, and this country has faced them periodically, the COVID pandemic was certainly a case of this, that there is a fundamental goodness, there's a fundamental collective nature to human beings to come together and to solve the problem when the noise is cut. And the problem is there's so much noise right now and that noise, a lot of that noise is very deliberately manufactured to pull us apart. And so that's where the narrative comes back, I think. I think we need that narrative of collectivity that we have seen that is fundamentally the way we are as human beings. That's what we need right now. It's the collectivism and the activism. And I'm gonna chime in, because I can't help myself, but I have to. Yes, I think the fact that health is such an important part of the conversations this week, and I've seen that change in just a couple of years become so central. And to the point you were making, it's such a universal ambition, no matter where you live in the world, you want that for yourself, you want that for the people you love, without it you have nothing. So I have a lot of hope that that's gonna bring a lot of us together. But the health conversation is only beginning and we must make sure that it doesn't live in an echo chamber within the health fraternity. This is very, very important because one of the risks, and we have to face it, we have to map out all our risks, yes, it's fantastic, COP28 will have a health day and so forth, well done to WHO and all those who lobby for it. But let's make sure that the people who in the climate negotiators are fully aware of the health implications of the climate crisis. But I would add to that. And do you also have implications, the economic implications? Economic implications, just to all link. And security implications, and gender implications. It's actually one security issue. But having worked on this for 29 years, we need, there are many echo chambers and one of the echo chambers is the climate and health people who have the conversation. Absolutely. And I think to harness the goodwill and the power of the health sector and the health voice, that the health sector actually, we have to get out of the echo chamber of climate and health that happens at the COP and that the entire health sector has to be having this conversation. And we need to lead by example. Because we are also polluters as a health sector. Yes, we are. I think it's a good point. But I think it's also beyond just, I think it's beyond just the kind of health sector looking at this broadly or even the climate sector thinking about it broadly. We have to target political leaders who have the policy to understand that health and investing in a health centered approach to climate change is actually mission critical to the safety and wellbeing of their populations, to the economic growth of these countries, to their next election cycle, quite honestly. Whoever harnesses this conversation and links it to livelihoods and links it to what it means for communities to actually be able to not just thrive but survive in this day and age, right? Is it's really essential but it's got to come health literally impacts absolutely every aspect of our life and every sector and we've never really thought about having that. And I think there's an opportunity in the climate and health conversation to really drive that point home. So the conversation needs to expand beyond just the halls of the cop negotiation. This needs to be front and center of businesses on Main Street. Businesses that are corporate and global to think about what it means to invest in this space for our again, our collective wellbeing and... But as you're saying, that's also a ticket to the multi-sectoral collaboration because it is the health of the workforce and then the health and the wellbeing of their customers is fundamental to every business. And so having that focus, having that conversation, having that narrative within the private sector is a way to really get that message. And those conversations also need to happen outside Davos, outside the UN General Assembly, outside the cops, right? So on our part, we are organizing, we have the annual sort of planetary health summit. So we're bringing it to Asia now for the first time, hoping to bring the conversation to Asia, waking leadership in Asia to say, guys, this is upon us as well. It's not a conversation happening in the UN or the cops and all that. It is also in our region, right? So how now do we influence, inspire, catalyze this in other parts of the world as well? I think Africa is ahead. They're thinking about it and the leaders. Where do we get more of this understanding and activism as well in other parts of the world? I also think it's due to leadership of our sector because to the point that you made, we are one of the biggest drivers of greenhouse gases and even since a 5% of greenhouse gases globally are produced by the health sector and the United States is 10%, the health sector is 10% of the contribution. And so our industry can also lead in that mitigation and demonstrate and link it to better patient care and pathways and we can actually show what this transformation can look like. So that's hope too, right? Absolutely and that's what our office is dedicated to. And political leaders want to see where there's economic benefits. When you actually get a health system that is much more green, so to speak, much more aware of its impact, then you will get the efficiencies as well and I think that sells politically, right? So we are down to our last minute and I think we've kind of answered the last question I was planning to ask, which is if we're here next year, what are we hoping we're talking about that might be different? And it sounds like, if I could sum up, that we've broken down some of these silos that we're not the only ones having this conversation about climate and its impact on health and that the conversation isn't just limited to a day, that it's an ongoing conversation. It will be telling good stories. It will be telling good stories. Positive stories. You know, what has happened around the world that can inspire us? Fantastic panel. I am thrilled to have been part of this with you and I cannot thank you enough for spending your time and giving us your energy, your brain space for the last 45 minutes. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us.