 Hello everybody and welcome to Tom and Mumke's Suicide Purge. I am Mumke Jones. And I am Tom, the other guy. You know, those other PCP guys, they might talk a big game about suicide, but for them, suicide is just a hobby. You know, for Tom and I, it's a lifestyle, and that's why we need our own suicide purge to spout off all of our, all of our innermost thoughts. Exactly. It's gonna, it's gonna be a productive whatever, how long this takes, I'm sure. Because sometimes in these PCP episodes, either Tom and I can't be there for a subject we want to talk about, or we feel like, you know, perhaps this subject got derailed by weird totalitarianism, or the plot of every Rocky movie, you know, just like things that might happen. So, we figured, hey, let's start a new little show where we cover topics that we think we didn't cover well enough in previous things, and maybe other things too. Who knows? This could be the springboard for something magical. Speaking of magical feelings, let's just hit the first most important topic of the Suicide Purge, which of course will be suicide. Hey! Exactly. Gonna keep it nice and light-hearted from the very start. Easy into the twisted minds of... Do you think Podcast-O-Matic, the website, is going to like our pilot episode where we just talk about suicide? We're gonna be front page easily. Come on. We're gonna be on Equestria Daily front page with our very new podcast. Oh, absolutely. I can pull some strings for you. I still got connections. Great. Well, hey, so we got a little list of topics and things dealing with suicide, just to talk about our own experiences, because like I said a second ago, I don't think anybody else in the PCP thinks about suicide quite as much as Tom, and certainly not on the same level of seriousness, perhaps. So, let's start off with... Yeah, for better or worse. I think that's accurate. I don't think it's necessarily for worse at all. I mean, I've been so ingrained in this thinking that I see no problem with it. So the first question is, when did we start wanting to kill ourselves? Yeah. I think you kind of hit it on the head already saying how you've been involved in this headspace for so long that it doesn't even feel weird anymore. I can't remember a time when it wasn't on the table. Yeah. Like, even when I was a little kid in elementary school, I definitely had thoughts like, fuck this, this is bullshit. And I don't think at the time when you're a little kid, you really can wrap your head around it completely. I think a lot of that is just a cry for attention, because you're a little kid, you're going through shit, and you just need that kind of reassurance or something. It never really went away. It's not like a little phase where you're like, ah, I'm a tweenie-bopper, and I'm sad, and I'm going to blast my Lincoln Park and want to die or something. I guess maybe it started like that, but it never went away. It just became more real as shit went on, and now it's just like, oh, this is just the thing in my head now. So I guess I do remember telling my family that I wanted to kill myself. I think when I was in fourth grade... Oh my God, that's pretty young. It was very young, because I always kind of... I mean, I don't want to say I got bullied. I never got punched or dumped in a trash can or something, probably because nobody could lift me, because I was like six feet and 200 pounds. Oh, shit. So I was kind of like a heavy kid back in the day. But I mean, I got bullied for that. I got bullied for being a fucking nerd. So I don't know. It was nothing super intense, but that kind of just chips away at you. So I always just kind of felt shitty, and that just eventually came to a head where maybe you just shouldn't fucking do this shit anymore. That's such a cliche kind of thing, but it does affect you. And I don't know. It's just one of those things where it just starts early and never really goes away, just kind of morphs and changes into something that was almost just kind of a cliche reactionary thing. But then it kind of embedded itself, because it was so prevalent. And now it's just a constant thing. I'm just like, is today going to be the day? I don't know, maybe. And yeah, it's just normal now. It doesn't feel weird anymore. And like you can let things slip and people were just looking at you like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's like, oh, I don't know. It's just like Tuesday. Sorry. Yeah. Do you remember if your parents had any sort of reaction when you were, what, nine years old and you said that? Um, I think... Like, if a nine year old says that to you, you probably kind of laugh it off and be like, oh, you probably got that from a TV show, right? Like, they wouldn't have taken you seriously. Well, that's the weird thing is that like, I don't think they've, they, my family's never really taken it seriously. Like, even to this day. Even today? Fuck. Yeah. Like, they just, they don't think it is. And like, I found out later that my dad's also suicidal and like almost killed himself when I was a little kid. And he, when he told my mom about it, my mom was just like, fuck, you go back to work. Oh, is your mom like a hardcore religious person? Uh, she was. She's kind of like loosened up now and just like, goes out drinking and stuff all the time and kind of like decided to just abandon real life or something. I don't know. I don't know what the deal is. But no, it was weird because like, because I talked to my dad about it sometimes too. Cause like, he's still like super fucking horribly depressed and I'm super fucking horribly depressed or just like, hey, maybe someday. And that's, that's fun when you bond with your dad over wanting to die. Yeah. So, but yeah, no, he was telling me one time, like, I guess like, cause I guess he lost his job or something. Cause like, he worked for Fleet Bank for a while and he hated it there. But they got bought by Bank of America and they shitcanned him. And it was really bad time. Like probably around like nine or 10 years old, like the age I started wanting to come was when he fucking got knee deep into it. And he was just like trying to like keep everything together. Cause my mom was a stay-at-home mom and was talking about it. And he was just like, didn't care. She's like, why are you freaking out over this? Like stop like men up and go back, go get a job and shit. And that was like her response to it. And he told me, he's like, oh yeah. So like I went out because like he's an outdoors man kind of guy. Like yeah, I went out, fucking took a gun, put it in my mouth and then somebody walked by. So it didn't happen. But it almost did. Yeah. And it just like, you know, so I feel like, is there like a genetic part of it? Cause like, I've been there. Oh yeah, there's gotta be. There totally has to be. Cause it has to be like a genetic like response to stress, right? Especially if you're having the feelings that as young as nine, like that's like your dad just gave that straight to you. Cause like my dad is terrible when it comes to dealing with stress. Like he's a kind of person who like, when bad things happen, he'll, he'll, he'll just instead of like risking having to confront it, he'll just kind of stay complacent and just like let it kind of wash over him. And just like over time it becomes more and more unbearable. And I definitely do that same sort of thing. So I feel like it's definitely like some sort of like genetic, at least partially response to that. And there's also like the, the nurture aspect cause I've grown up in this house. And like that's how I've seen my role model respond to bad situations. So it's really interesting to know, to figure out how all that interplay would really work. But I mean at the end of the day, all I know is that like he wanted to kill himself. I definitely feel like that a lot. So it's just like, yeah, for whatever reason that's there. So it's, it's always been there. Even when I was like too young to realize it was happening around me, it was going on. And yeah, it's pretty fucked up. Does this sort of thing make you afraid to have kids? Cause it certainly does for me. Like I don't want kids because I don't want to pass any of this onto them. Yeah. I mean, I've never, I've never really been into the idea of kids in general, just because like even when I don't consider myself and my own problems, cause I think I'd be a terrible parent just cause I'm super irresponsible. Like I'm very selfish. Yeah. I don't even take care of myself very well. Like you expect me to fucking take care of somebody else. But just like, I don't know, I just don't, I wouldn't want to put somebody in this society where it's just like it's so uncertain. And it only seems to be getting more uncertain. It feels like an irresponsibility to be like, hey buddy, I can barely take care of myself, but now you're out there too and good luck. Yeah. Oh by the way, here's all these genetic defects I'm passing down to you, you know. Yeah. It's just like I'm handicapping you right out of the gate, so good luck. Don't touch any guns until you turn like 80, otherwise you're gonna fucking fire that shit the wrong way. Exactly. Well, I did not experience it as young as you did. I actually think it, I didn't really embrace the idea of it until maybe my junior or senior year of high school. And that's because I think, I legitimately think before I started becoming depressed, I didn't, I wasn't even a human being. Think of characters like, like young Naruto or SpongeBob or any character who's just like a really annoying young loudmouth obnoxious hyperactive piece of shit character. And that's me all the way up until like I turned 16. And then I get hit with depression and then it's like half and half where I'm half like an empty shell of a sad person and half the annoying 12 year old Naruto spray painting the Hokage faces. And that's pretty much my life for the first huge chunk of it. And then when I, I don't know, something like nothing happened to trigger it. I think it is just another one of those things where, oh, I guess my brain chemistry wants to go fuck you for no reason. And now suddenly I just, I think about death every day and I don't enjoy anything anymore. And sometimes I'll have, you know, all this wild, crazy fun from the mania in my brain. And then other times that part like goes to sleep. So I don't, it's very different to I think for, for you and me because you have, you've had it like your entire life. And this is something I feel like was thrust upon me about, about seven years ago. Maybe. Hmm. That's interesting. Cause like it, I wonder which one, not to like the dick compare anything, but I don't know which one is like more like how, which, how they affect the psyche. Cause like I was like slowly kind of come into this and it just kind of been there forever. So like people always talk about like, oh, like happy. I'm like, I don't really know like what that is a hundred, not to be like super emo or anything. Cause like I definitely have like enjoyment and stuff, but like, you know, like we, like we, we talk and like the PCP group chat and stuff and people are just like excited about their work and like the things that they do. And like they feel like they're doing good shit or just like that they're like cool or something. I don't know. I'm just like, I don't really, what the fuck does that mean? Like I, everything I do is laced with like doubt and just like disgust to some degree. So I don't really understand how that works. Cause it's never happened. But at the same time you're saying that like you were like super fucking positive and like, like basically a caricature of a human being. And then all of a sudden it's just 180. So like which one is worse? Like this kind of like slow burn or this like whiplash effect. You know, I would probably say based on my experience is that yours is probably worse because I like myself more now than I did back then. I would rather hang out with 22 year old me than 14 year old me. Although I assume most people could easily make that statement. Yeah. I would, I'd be there too for sure. But I would rather be like the edgy, depressed guy than the hyperactive annoying guy that nobody wants to even talk to. And surprisingly being depressed all the time in public has invited a lot of people to want to talk to me. So it's very opposite of what you would expect. Yeah. I feel like, I don't know. Depression is, it's kind of like taboo to a certain degree like culturally. But I think in terms of like people our age I think it's very common like to have, not to be like super depressed but to understand at least where people like that are coming from. Because I know most of the people I talk to that I know, even if they don't personally can relate to it. They're like, yeah, I get it. I understand. And I know like what that is. Whereas I talk to people older than me. They're just like, don't be a bitch. They're just like, I wish it was that simple, you know. And I think I tell myself that every day and that's half the problem. Yeah, it doesn't help. I think that the biggest advent of that is the internet. I think this is the internet generation where back in the day if you're depressed who are you gonna tell? You're gonna go tell your parents? You're gonna go tell your fucking brother? No. But here on the internet there are a million and one forums all about this shit. You always have somebody you can talk to. There are tons of things you can read about it. The same thing with atheism. I think atheism is growing at a rapid rate because you can go on the internet and hear all your atheist pastors and preachers like, you know, T.J. Curtin and all these people. So I think thanks to the internet, atheism and depression and suicidal thoughts are at an all time high. Pretty much. And it's interesting because on the one hand you have all these kind of like, I don't wanna say counterculture, but like kind of like taboo subjects that all of a sudden have a forum with the internet. But at the same time, I think like the downside to that is that because they're normalized, some people don't fix them. They kind of incorporate them into their identity. And then that's kind of a bad thing. You know, because like, if we didn't have any forum for our depression it either get really bad and we just fucking like do the deed or you just like, I need to fix this and you'd find a way to fix it because like I can't talk to anybody about this. This is like an internal battle. But now that like you can just go everywhere you get that kind of like support and you realize that it's a thing. But because it's a thing, now people can make it a thing for themselves. Like yes, I am a depressed person and it just becomes like a little tick box as well. And not just depression, it can be anything. You know, like I think with the advent of the internet we've seen a ton of like weird like previously socially stigmatized things become more accepted for better or worse. Become almost like badges of honor to show off. Right. Because it's like, look how fucked up I am. Like this is something I'm proud of. Like, you know, my me and my head mates are just hanging out and like these weird things that otherwise would just be kind of like not even accepted. You find all the people who would even like be ridiculous enough to entertain them, find each other and then it becomes an established thing. It's really an Olympics of privilege, I guess. But I think what makes us set apart is that we're not here playing for the gold medal of depression. At least my goal has always been to when I interject it into things or when I do a whole channel about it or when I do a podcast about it. It's not to say everybody look at me. Feel sorry for me. Give me that attention that I crave. My goal has always been to let other people who are mostly young teens who are in the same position that I found myself and let them know, hey, guess what? You're not the only one. It's very important to know you're not the only one. Even the people that you might respect online like Monkey Jones, even they have this same shit going on. And I think that's a really important message that, you know, because when you get into these mindsets you really do feel like you're completely alone in the world and you have nothing going for you. And I think it's crucial to know that other people are going through the same thing. Especially public figures. It's one of those things because that's just part of the condition where you just feel isolated. Even if you're not, even if you have friends, even if you have people who hang out with you, it's like your subconscious tells you that none of that's real, none of it really matters, and you're in this by yourself. And I think the difference between what we're talking about and people who kind of wear it like a badge is that we would get rid of it if we could. Whereas other people, you know? That's a good point. Because we're not here to be like, this is great, and this is who I am. It's like this is who I am, and it fucking sucks, and I would get rid of it at the drop of a hat. Absolutely. We're not here trying to win awards with it. We're here to like, hey, let's, you know? Because there are people who use depression and other things like that where it's just like, well, I might have made a mistake, but I'm depressed, so that's my get out of jail free card. Oh, yeah. And that shit's fucking annoying. And that's what going back to where the internet kind of enables these things to kind of become part of who you are, and you can use them kind of as like underhanded weapons or something, and that's really fucked up. So would you say if somebody was so depressed that they just couldn't get out of bed, would you judge them if they used that as an excuse for not doing their schoolwork? No, I mean, I'm not really in here to judge one way or the other. I think some of these things are messed up, but you got to judge it on an individual basis. Like you can't make blanket statements. Like if you're, I mean, there have been days when I just don't fucking go anywhere or do anything, and it's this weird internal war that nobody knows is even happening. Like every time I make something or do something or just even coming on here and be like, oh yeah, I guess I'll set it up for Friday and shit is just like, you know, Friday's usually the day to sit back, order like three pieces, get really fat and pretend the world doesn't exist. So like, I want to do something on Friday, like fuck that. So just, you know, there's always that internal kind of monologue going on. Just like, it's not worth it. Don't bother. Don't do it. And sometimes that wins and it's, it's not something you can. It does win a lot. Yeah. And you have to like, sometimes you have to concede a battle to keep the war going and it kind of sucks, but that's just part of the ways of dealing with it. And that's like the best thing that I've come up with so far is that sometimes you just have to, you know, do a tactical retreat one day so you can get up the next day and hit it harder. Well, how about we lighten the mood with a much nicer, you're laughing because you know what the next subject is. Let's lighten the mood and talk about, you know, have we had any suicide attempts? And if so, what were they? Yeah. I have, I have not attempted yet. Hopefully, hopefully it never does happen. So definitely I'm happy that I've never gotten to that extent. There's definitely been like meditation on it, but it's never become action. And that'll definitely tie into the next question we're going to get to. But yeah, that's, I mean, really, that's all I can say. I've never, I've never been like, all right, I'm going to actually do it. I mean, I've thought about it, but that's really as far as I've ever gotten. I've made like some plans, but they've never materialized into action or even beginning of action. For me, I would say if suicide is Coca-Cola, then my suicide attempts have been Coke Zero, Diet Coke Zero. Because while, while I've experimented and done various things, I never did it with the sole intent of actually dying. It was more of, well, let's see what happens. And if I die, you know, that's good. And if not, I guess I know that that doesn't work. Like that's just, let's, let's play around. This was mostly my freshman year of college. And anybody who's read my book, which of course, Tom, you were one of the first in the world. And also, you're also the only other person on earth who has read my secret second book that won't be released probably until next year. But anybody who's read that book knows about Mario Quintanilla and his, and his sleeping pills. And he took a whole bottle of sleeping pills and he had the worst weekend of his life. His whole body became like paralyzed, the nominee just laid in bed and it was just his brain was working and nothing else. And that's not just a story that monkey made up. I got some field, it was a field study. I had to get information for this book. There was a lot of character acting to make that happen. Yeah, I had to know what it was really like. So of course, that part of the book did actually happen to me pretty much in the same way Mario depicted it. I do recall, like, man, after so long of being like that, I remember when I eventually could regain control of my body. It was like crawling to the bathroom and there was like no way I could stand up straight to pee. So it was like just the most drunken slosh to get up onto the toilet just to sit down and pee and like my head would not stay up straight. Like it was just like a fucking bobble head all over the place and I couldn't keep it up. So that was a fun time. That was when I was still living with my parents. I think the summer before I started college and then at college I did various things with trying to restrict breathing and air flow and things like nothing. I didn't actually try to hang myself, but I experimented with it. I didn't have a rope and I had a bunk bed in my dorm. So I took my belt and I fastened like a loop and I put my neck in it to see what it felt like to hang because I just wanted to see, you know, if I'm going to do this one day and if I need this get out of jail free card, what is it going to be like to hang from a belt from the top bunk of my dorm room? And I found it to be very painful, especially on my, just on my Adam's apple. The rest of it was okay. The whole not breathing part was actually also okay and I was fine with that. But just the pressure on my Adam's apple, the front of my throat, like this little bump was pressed in by the belt. I didn't like it. So I took a shirt and I stuffed it into the front of the belt and there you go. That was it. It was perfectly comfortable and I could no longer breathe and it got to a point, because I wanted to see how long am I going to do this? Let's just see how long I can go without it hurting. And I got to the point where I could feel like the color is fading and it's like, oh boy, it's happening. I'm not going to die, I'm going to pass out. This is fucking sick. And I stood up and I said, okay, that's enough experimenting for today. But at least now I know that if I have to, this is a viable solution. And the saddest part is, I am five foot seven. I am 22 years old. I am 125 to 130 pounds, which means my waist is at a size where child belts are too small and adult belts are way too big. So I can't find a belt that fits me. So I'm still to this day wearing this stretched out belt that I tried to hang myself with. And if you look at it, it's very obvious how that stretch marks happened. But I can't find a belt that fits. So what am I supposed to do? I shouldn't be laughing at this. I think it's funny, I don't give a shit. It's so weird, because you're telling me this fucking messed up story and it's not even phasing me. Yeah, okay. I wouldn't expect it to phase a guy like you or me because I don't think, and we'll get into this later, but I don't think we see dying as a bad thing. So why would a story of somebody trying to achieve that evoke a bad feeling? I don't know. If I hear when Chester Bennington or whatever the fuck his name is, when he died, when I hear things about suicides, I don't really get that upset because it was their choice. Like somebody getting gunned down in the street, that's a tragedy, they're a victim. But when you choose to do it, and this is probably the depression talking and everybody at home thinks we sound crazy, but when you, when it's your choice and you're ending your own pain and suffering, why would I feel bad for it? I mean, I think a lot of it is just like, especially when it's somebody close, I think that comes from just like, I don't want to say selfish, but like, it's just like, oh, I miss that person. And it's like a pain that you're feeling and it's not so much them. Cause that's kind of like where I am with stuff like that. Cause like, they always, when people talk to me about like, wouldn't you feel bad for all the people that you'd hurt from that? I'm like, that's not really my problem. That sounds like a total fucking dick move, but like... It kind of is, but at the same time, I'll let you finish, sorry, this is your point. I mean, but you're basically on, but what I was going to say is that like, I'm just dealing with my shit right now and that's, I can't, I can't control your feelings, you know, like I can't, even if I'm alive, I can't control how you feel, but if, if my suffering or whatever is that bad, that like, that's the only thing I can do and like, I'm going to keep myself in pain because I don't want to hurt you. Like that just seems like you're the one being kind of a dick at that point. It's like, you're going to hold your feelings over my head to keep me from doing what I want to do and I don't know, it just, that's never sat right with me. So I'm like, people die, like Cheshire Bank is a great example because like, I'm an edge lord, so I love Linkin Park. But like, it sucks. It's, I feel bad that his shit got so bad that he felt that that was what he needed to do. That's where I feel bad because I'm like, it sucks that like, you know, that guy that had all the success and shit, like shit could still be that bad that like, he felt that was his only recourse. I feel bad about that. But do I feel like I can't believe he killed himself or like that was like horrible? It's like, no, that's like, dude, it's, that's your choice. And if that's what you feel is the right thing to do, you know, I don't know your situation. I don't know what's going on with him. Like, who knows what the fuck's going on. If that's what you want to do, that's what you want to do. And like, maybe you want to kill yourself because like, oh man, I'm like, I'm like 70 and I don't want to fucking like, end up in a nursing home like eating out of a straw. Like, I'm just, I've had a good run. I'm going to fucking finish it now. Like, why is, I don't think that's a bad thing either. Like, if that's what you want to do, that's what you want to do. Right. That's the point I was going to make was that I think if somebody is suffering, then who am I to tell them, no, keep suffering from my benefit. I think if they truly feel that their best course of action is to commit suicide, that I'm not going to hold it against them. I'm not going to be upset with them. Like, they're not suffering anymore. I should feel happy for them even though like it negatively impacts my life, but things like that happen all the time, you know? It's almost, this might be a weird comparison, but I feel it's kind of similar to the whole like theists and dying where it's just like, you're upset that this person's dead, but like, according to you, like they're in heaven, like hanging out with God and shit. Like, shouldn't you be happy that they're, they're done, like they're in a better place. You know, like, why are you upset? You're upset because you, because you have lost something. And it's the same thing with like, with suicide at an extent. It's just like, it's like, if you're close to someone and they're dealing with suicide, you see firsthand how much suffering they're going through. It's like, if, if, and like, if this is their way of dealing with it, they're not suffering anymore. Like, like, this isn't the ideal way for them to solve it, but this is what they had to do. And this was their choice. This is what they wanted. Then like, you know, take some solace in the fact that like, you know, they don't have, you know, they don't have to be in that pain anymore that you had to see firsthand every day. And, you know, like, it's, it's, it's kind of like dark and macabre to put it in such terms. But, you know, at the end of the day, people have their own free will and their own kind of ability to do what they want with their lives. And I think that's a good transition to the next topic, which you kind of just touched on, which is thoughts on dying and being dead. Yes. So, do you want to start this? I'm going to start every single one so far. Yeah, yeah. I can, I can talk a little bit about this. Thoughts on dying? I mean, there aren't too many people who have died and come back and been able to give, you know, a description of what happened. My, my dad's friend's son has actually died twice once he was up on a, he was fixing a, he worked for the city and he was fixing electrical lines and he fucking got shocked to death. And now like, even to this day, half of his face is fucking melted off and he's missing an ear. And he was dead for like, I think like 17 or 20 minutes or something. And we talked to him. Yeah. And he says, like, I don't remember anything. Like one second I was being shocked and the next second I was waking up. So it's, it's like, it's, it's like when you're editing a video and you like, you cut out a part and it just goes to the next clip. Like it just doesn't exist anymore. That time of, of your reality no longer exists. So in that regard, when it comes to being dead, I mean, that's the, that's the second biggest fear on earth. The biggest fear number one, according to polls, is public speaking. And the biggest fear number two is death. So some people would rather die than publicly speak, which I always thought was funny. Yeah, that says a lot. Yeah. But yeah, so such a big fear is death and it seems like so many things revolve around extending your life and like so many plots of things or like the villain wants to live forever to beat death, to, you know, to defeat death in the end. But I, I don't really get it. I'm not scared if it's, if it's just like, you know, black, it's not even black, it's nothing. It's literally nothing because you don't exist. And I don't know why, like I, I might fear that not being able to do some things before I die, there might be some goals that I wish I could achieve. But once I'm dead, it's not going to matter. I'm not going to give a fuck because I won't even know because I'm dead. Well, that's the thing. I think the fear of death, because like I'm, I'm almost paradoxically terrified of death and I think the reason I'm afraid of death is because not so much because like I'm afraid of dying but it's because I don't want to leave anything undone and the fact that I'm so depressed means that like for the last 10 years I've done like 1% of what I wanted to do. So I think that's where my fear of death comes from because there's so much shit that I want to do and I'm not doing it and the clock's ticking and I don't want to leave anything off the table. So I think that's where my fear of death comes from because like I was reading some, I don't even remember where I got this from, I was reading something about death and they were like, they're talking about why death shouldn't be something scary because it's like when you're dead, you have this like small moment of time on Earth and then you die and when you're dead, it's just, you know, nothing and like that feeling of nothing terrifies people because like from the point of your death for the rest of time, there's just nothing and you don't have anything and people like, that's really scary. But think about it in the other direction. Like before you were born, there was nothing. Yeah, that's my favorite example. You already technically know what death is because it's, you know, like what happened, where were you in the 1800s? Nothing just didn't happen. So like that's what death is. It's the same thing. It's just a lack of existing. So you've already experienced that for the entirety of human existence before you came, you were born. So like, what does it matter? Like it's that inconsequential. It's like, you feel like all these things I'm going to miss in the future, it's like where you weren't there when like fucking America was established, you're not crying over that. So it's the same thing. It's just not, you're just not a part of it. I feel like there's a misconception that death is like suddenly being in eternal darkness and like just like lying there forever. That would be fucking terrifying. Not a lie. If that's what people actually think. Exactly. But and of course, like we're not dead so we can't know this for sure. But chances are, folks, that's not what death is. Chances are death is exactly what you were like 10 months before you were born. Yeah. And it's just like, I mean, you go to sleep every night and it's not like you're in like a black prison for eight hours and you can't do anything. You just like, you go to sleep and you wake up like, oh, eight hours have passed. Yeah. You just do that and you don't wake up. Yeah. And you don't dream either. All right. And I don't ever remember any of my dreams. So I don't know. Have you ever been, like have you ever had surgery and been put under anesthetic that puts you to sleep? Yes. Yeah. I imagine like that's what it's got to be like, right? Like one second, I'm counting down from five and they got this fucking cup over my face and the next I wake up and I asked them, when are you starting the surgery? And they said, you fucking did two hours ago. And I was like, well, shit. I guess it worked. Yeah. I don't know. It just, it seems, I think it's just because you're alive and that's all you've ever known. The concept of not being alive just inherently feels because it is unknowable. It's like this primal fear because again, we're also again genetically programmed because like you gotta, you gotta go carry on your lineage. So like make sure you don't die. It's like coated into our lizard brain to make sure you don't just kind of, you know, do what we've been talking about for the last half an hour. Which luckily depression has solved that problem for us. No more carrying on the lineage for us. Yeah. No, fuck that. Yeah. The line ends here for better or worse, probably better because like more creating more of us not probably in their best interest. Yeah. Let the, let the normies have the world. We don't need more mumkees and toms running around. They can have it. One was enough. Are any other thoughts on dying and being dead? Um, I think probably the, maybe you haven't experienced this, but this is an angle that I get a lot because I was raised in a religious household. My mom and grandmother, when I was younger, when they were still super spiritual, would be like, if you die, you're going to hell. Do you realize that? Like that's why you can't kill yourself because you're going to be burning in fire and eternal damnation forever if you do this. So that's always an aspect that I still think about to this day because it's hard to kind of, like I'm definitely an atheist, but it's hard because when you've been raised from like, you were born to go to church and all this stuff and you know, your mom and parents are just like, yeah, we love you, but we definitely love God more and like just tell you that when you're a little kid. Fuck. So it's just like, it's hard to like, expunge that completely because I always wonder what if there is an afterlife? Like is ridiculous and dumb as it is conceptually? Like I'm not going to sit here and say that I know a hundred percent there's no afterlife, because like, that's the little like, gotcha, because like by the very definition of what it is, it's unknowable to humans. So like, you can't disprove it, lemau. Give us your money every Sunday. So, I don't know, like if you die, if you kill yourself and there is an afterlife and it is all fire and brimstone, then you're fucked. And I'd feel like, I don't know, like at that point, just be like, well at least I'm a good company because if that's justice, then I don't really want to fucking get on my knees and pray to that God anyway. Yeah, you'll get to go to Lincoln Park concerts whenever you want, evidently. Pretty much. Yeah, but it is rough when, even from the youngest age, right when you're born, you get this seed planted in your brain of the afterlife and all this religious stuff. And even if you try to outgrow it, it's really hard to get that seed of doubt completely out of your brain. Cause I, I went to church every Sunday when I was a kid. I went with my grandma rather than my parents so it wasn't like religion was a thing that I was exposed to on a daily basis. It was more of hey, we're going to go to grandma's house for the weekend and she makes us go to church but then I just go and play my game boy while the guy does the sermon. But yeah, it's still something that you know gets implanted in your brain and it does fuck with you, especially whenever you start going through your stuff isn't real phase. That's when it really fucks with you like, oh man, I'm pretty sure but man, if I'm wrong, I'm so fucked. I'm going to fucking burn, man. I'm going to suffer. Right. Oh gosh. At least when you figured out Santa Claus wasn't real, there was no, Santa wasn't going to fucking send you to the South Pole to suffer forever. They don't say that if you don't believe in Santa they're going to fucking have the reindeer stab you to death. All right. It's like, all right. It's, I think it's definitely psychologically damaging to indoctrinate children like that with that kind of like fire and brimstone kind of mentality. But the problem is, the people indoctrinating those children are the children of the previous generation who also got indoctrinated. So there's like no way to break the cycle. How do you stop it? There isn't, you know, like somebody, you just have to kill yourself so no one, there's no, there's no other people left to fucking toe the line. Yeah. That's the answer. Tommy Oliver quoted saying if you're religious you have to kill yourself. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, go meet the guy you like so much. That's what I'm saying. I want that to be a quote on the front page of Equestria Daily right now. Tommy Oliver says all religious people should kill themselves. There we go. Hey, here's an easy question that'll take about two minutes. Do you still plan on killing yourself? Um, the jury's out on that, dude. Who knows what tomorrow's going to bring? Yeah. So, and you always got to have that get out of jail. I don't know, dude. We've scientifically proven by taking one online test that I'm officially more depressed than you now because all those that sweet Patriot money and that sweet GF have made you crossed over to the normie side and now you're not depressed as much anymore. Yeah. Yeah. But it's almost like the normies are right the whole time. Well, sure, if we could embrace the normie lifestyle and be happy, it's easier said than done. But I like even no matter how happy I become in life, even if I feel like I'm not depressed at all, I'm always going to have in the back of my mind, hey, no matter what happens, I can always fucking get that belt out and just end it all. And I, it's not a depressing thought and I don't think it's sad. I don't think it's anything to be looked down upon. I think it's the most naturally comforting thing in the world to know that no matter what life throws at you, no matter how bad things get, no matter how fucking screwed you might feel, you're the, you're the author of your own destiny and you decide, you know what, I'm done playing this game. Let's, let's hit reset. Let's turn the PlayStation off real quick. And it's always your choice and I think that's very empowering and it makes me feel, it makes me feel happy to know that I can die. No, dude, I totally agree. Cause it's, cause like why do you want to kill yourself even in the first place? It's a situation that is not beneficial to you, right? Cause it's like, why would I want to continue this, this uncomfortable path? So yeah, it's, it's about reclaiming control and I don't think that's technically a bad thing. Like it's an extreme version but that, when you think about it, that's really like the one true form of, of, of freedom and self determination you really have because like you weren't, you didn't choose to be born, but you can choose to not be alive anymore. Everything else there's so many of those young adult dystopian novels about like, oh, this government makes you do this and this one makes you do this. Is there one where the government won't let you kill yourself? Oh wait, no, we're living in that one. Never mind. Never mind. Move on. Yeah. I was, that was something I wanted to bring up to the stigma, stigmatization of it and why it happens or like what, cause that's, that's always an interesting question. Like is it, is it societal I don't, the fact of like my friends at family dying makes me sad, so I don't want to talk about it or is it some sort of like governmental control cause it's like, it's like if, if suicide was okay and people were offering themselves all the time, society would collapse cause it's like, oh god, I gotta pay my taxes, fuck it. Yeah. Yeah, I, despite what my, my channel may lead some lesser paying attention viewers to believe, I'm not super into conspiracies, but I can see, I can see a government that wants to keep its people alive just like for the sake of economic benefit, but I, I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole cause I, I don't know much about it. Right. I mean, I don't know, I would say probably, I don't think it's even a governmental thing. I think to go back where I was talking about before, I think it probably started earlier than that with religion, you know, cause it comes from religious doctrine, you know, it's in like the Bible not kill yourself and shit and it's probably because, you know, like, oh they can't be paying us fucking shit every week and they can't be paying themselves painlessly. So, I don't know, I think this is probably something to do with it, but I have no evidence to back that up. It's me totally talking out of my ass citation, absolutely needed. Well for both the religious aspect and like a governmental aspect, in both cases, they're trying to tell you that a higher power owns your life and owns you, whereas from our point of view, fuck that! I own me, I own my life, I'm responsible for myself and my actions and nobody else and nothing else. So, at the end of the day, it's very similar to compare like the government but you can't stop someone from pulling the trigger anyway, right? Yeah, I think I have a solution. I think the punishment for attempting suicide should be the death sentence. That's it. You know, it's good for everybody. The government gets to impose their laws and we get what we wanted in the first place, it's simple. Exactly. Just fucking kill the guy. The only person that suffers is your family of preventing you from dying and watching the government do it for you. Yeah, well. They get to live through it twice, those fucks. That's what they get for making me depressed the first place. Mom, give me the PlayStation! Hey, let's move on to the final topic is what could happen that would put you over the edge and make you do it today? Is there anything that could happen to you like right now that you'd say, I think it would probably have to be something to do with preventing me from being able to do the work I want to do. If a dude came in the door right there and took a spoon and gouged out my eyeballs and cut off my right hand just like, you can't do anything now. I was like, well, I'm just going to kill myself. My life's work is now impossible. Something really fucked up like that or if there was some sort of mental damage that they'd be unable to think cognitively anymore like my faculties escaped me and just like, like, literally mentally retarded and just like, I don't want to keep functioning like this. If I can, if I realize what I've lost and just like, fuck, like that's what I'd want to just something really extreme medically like that because we're still primitive and we don't have robot bodies yet, which was the best way to be. So yeah, something really fucked up like that probably. I don't think anything emotionally, like, you know, I remember died or I lost like a ton of money or shit like that. Like, I don't think that's really enough. Like, I'd be super pissed and I'd be really upset, but I don't think that would make me kill myself. It would just make me think about killing myself a lot, but I don't think that'd be enough. It'd have to be something like super debilitating that prevented me from like the things that keep me living, which is like doing artwork and doing creative work that's when I'd be like, well, I literally have no reason left to live. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I, I don't know, if I couldn't do the stupid things I do, I think I, because you, like you specifically need your hands to do art, but like if I wanted to write a book, I could just fucking say the words out loud and have sheep over type them up. So that wouldn't be, that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but I think from what I know of myself, I am very dressed with being in control of, of my situation in the sense that like it, no matter where I am, I want to know where the exit is and that I can go home whenever I want unrestricted. So like, if, if I knew I was about to be arrested for, like for life in prison for whatever reason and locked up with no, no way of controlling like going home, like I'm just going to be locked here, forced here, stuck here forever. Yeah. I'd probably kill myself before the police got to my door because that, that sounds like the worst nightmare I can imagine is being trapped somewhere with no way of going home whenever I want. Yeah. I think, I think that would probably do it for me too depending on the situation because there are definitely like people who like, you know, they're, they're prison mates. Like I wrote a book in prison or whatever and like fucking, if I could, if they, or you can make stuff, like just whatever, I could just keep doing that. It's like, oh, so you're telling me you're giving me a room, you're giving me three meals a day, I don't have to pay for anything and I get to do what I want. This is the dream. This is what I wanted my whole goddamn life. The state works. Yeah. I am curious. I do, like if, if I was given the option I would like to be in prison for like a week because I've, like there's so many things in the media and like, you know, books and movies about being in prison. I would be interested in trying it out for the rest of my life. Fuck that. Yeah. Unless, unless I got, I got arrested in Sweden or something where the prisons are just like a hotel and you can do whatever you want. Then that, because like, have you heard of like the Scandinavian prison system? It's like, it's about rehabilitation and not punishment. So they like, you got a gym, you can go work out. They give you like a furnished room and you can do whatever you want. What the fuck? They treat him like human beings. What the hell? Yeah, I know. It's fucking ridiculous, dude. But yeah, he's online. He should not be treated as a human being. He's a, he's a fucking vicious monster. He, that, that 17 year old kid was smoking weed. Are you kidding me? Lock him up. Exactly, dude. Lock him up. But yeah, I almost, I would like to go over there and get arrested. Like maybe I just like crossed the border illegally and maybe since they, they don't have border and border laws anymore though. So that wouldn't work. I couldn't just cross the border. I'd have to go there and do something. And then I'd be set for life. Hey, how about we go together and get arrested? Me. So then I'm dead. And then you get arrested. I think it would work. Exactly. We both get what we want. We've, we've solved the puzzle, dude. If shit goes bad, when Trump's America becomes too much to bear, we have an exit plan. We know what to do. That's it. Well, hey, if we ever announce a kickstarter for a monkey and Tom go to what, Scandinavia? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere in Scandinavia. There's a bunch of countries that are doing it. Just know we've both got about a week and you better let us know quickly. You can get it out. Well, hey, that's all of our topics. And unless there are any other suicide related things, I think we're near the end of this. Yeah. I think we, we hit on all the big stuff. I don't know if there's nothing, nothing left on my plate that needs to be said. I think we tackled all the, we tackled all the big issues that those other PCP cucks are too pussy to talk about. You know what I'm saying? Me and Tom are the only alpha males in the PCP who can stand, who can stand to talk about how much we want to cut our own throats, baby. Yeah. Actually, no, there is, speaking of that methods, we didn't talk about methods. Okay. Well, yeah, I guess I talked about pills and hanging, but what else you got? Because I think, this is something I think about all the time. Like, how would I do it if it actually came? And I think it would probably just be a gunshot. Something, and the reason I think about that is because because I'm afraid of death, I know that if I do anything that takes time, but I can't, like, reverse course, halfway through it, I'd be like, fuck, I don't want to do this. I don't understand how people jump off buildings to kill themselves, because I know, like, halfway down, I'd be like, shit! I changed my mind! Fuck! And then, and then it's not a suicide anymore. I've been murdered by myself, you know? Yeah. So it's just like, if I'm gonna do it- I don't think jumping off a building is akin to shooting yourself because, like, once you pull that trigger, once you jump, you're gonna lose a leg or something. Well, the thing is, is that, like, in my mind, like, the reason the gunshot is superior is because, like, I want to do it, I pull the trigger, I'm dead, there's no time for me to change my mind, but, like, if you take pills, or if you hang yourself, or anything that takes time, you have time to think about it after you've made the decision and you can reverse your choice, but then it's too late to really do anything about it. Like, if you're alone and you're hanging from, you know, a piece of wood with a rope around your neck and, like, you're about to pass out and you're just like, it's too late, you can't really fix it at that point. Like, you're committed, but you pull the trigger, you don't have any time to change your mind at that point. Or even worse, you somehow fuck it up and then, like, you don't die and you're like in a vegetative state because you cut off the oxygen to your brain for too long. Exactly! That's the worst. Now you're stuck alive forever. That's worse than death to me. That's, because that's, that's what everyone fears death is, right? You're just, like, in a void and you can't do anything. Yeah, that's what we have to do. Like, that's what everybody's afraid of. So a vegetative state is what everyone's actually afraid of. And that's why mercy killing should be legal. Fuck you, America. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, hey, we did it. We solved, we solved the problem of what to do in Scandinavia. We solved the problem of mercy killing. You know, we got any other methods. This is why suicide needs to be talked about openly. It's a solution to all the world's problems. And it's also really funny. Really funny. Hey, Tom, that's, that's it. We did our first suicide purge. We gotta, we gotta talk more about things that aren't always depressing. Like, And before we go, kids, remember that this show does not count towards a PCP patron. So if you like this show, you need to give us money directly so we can keep doing them so we don't have to kill ourselves. This show doesn't even add to the PCP ad revenue because of the new ad rules. We have suicide in the title twice. There's no fucking way they're gonna monetize this shit. You might be listening to this on a Google Drive link because it might be pulled down from YouTube and you can actually post it. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Hey, so yeah, if there's any things that you want me and Tom to talk about on this show, let us know. Any topics from PCP past that you think, you know, hey, maybe Tom and Monkey, they weren't there for that one. Maybe they have some good insight. Let us know in the comments. Maybe you hated this, don't want to hear it again. That's more likely. So just let us know that too. We might not listen to you at that point though because fuck you. Sure. Hey, I've been a monkey on the suicide purge. And Tom, I'm perched up there too. And we'll hopefully see you next time unless something happens. Who knows? Yeah, unless we kill ourselves. Yeah, exactly. Okay.