 It is my great pleasure to introduce two people who need really no introduction Who are going to have a dialogue for the next 30 minutes or so about the future of energy? Please help me in welcoming Secretary William Perry and Governor Jerry Brown our planet today Faces two existential dangers one of them is a nuclear war nuclear catastrophe and Yeah, there is a climate catastrophe The nuclear catastrophe could happen next month Next year 10 years from now Or for a lucky never But if it happens it happens all at once on the other hand the Climate change catastrophe is on a slow roll. It gets it's it is happening. It's happening every month every year It's getting worse. We heard this morning That that one definition of a catastrophe might be two degrees centigrade increase in the average temperature over the planet and that might happen in 20 years and That might be a cancer. This is a slow motion catastrophe It's a little bit like the legend of the frog and the water and the water is heating up and gets hotter and hotter and The frog doesn't jump think to jump out until it's too late, and that's sort of the problem. We're facing today in the energy problem in the Energy catastrophe we're facing now the climate change catastrophe. It is slow motion And we're not reacting to it We know what to do But we're not doing it Some things are happening in the world Some countries are acting and acting robustly to deal with this problem Individually and collectively the Paris Accord is one example of such a collective action for this to be fully effective The United States, which is one of the biggest energy users Needs to be acting effectively and needs to be providing leadership in the world and that is today not happening Nevertheless The world is moving ahead anyway Many countries are moving ahead both individually and collectively and Most interestingly in some ways most surprisingly Some states are taking actions on their own Without guidance from the federal government in fact sometimes in spite of our federal government Most notably of course is the state of California Which is important not only because of the huge size of California means what it has taken is various actions taking this very significant But also because of the leadership serving as the example other states and even other countries This action in California has been underway for a long time and it's been nonpartisan Governor Schwarzenegger was a strong supporter of climate change control and Of course the last eight years the leadership in our state in the country in the world on energy has been from Governor Jerry Brown I'd like to start off by asking Jerry some questions in this field and the first question is What are the major programs underway today in the state? Which one do you think are the most significant and the most important? All right, I was I'm on a list five. We're talking about Climate change efforts, which also entail Reducing fossil fuel energy consumption Okay, the first is in electricity California has set what is called the portfolio standard To achieve ever increasing percentages of renewable energy in the electricity sector Now I want to make clear the electricity sector is only 20 percent less than 20 percent of our carbon emissions In part because we've been making progress in reducing emissions in that sector, but anyway our goal is 60% renewable energy by 2030 We will hit 50% within the next few years and some utilities are almost there and when we say 60% we don't refer to hydroelectric which is zero emission or the remaining nuclear plants at Diablo Canyon in order to foster certain kinds of innovation We've defined renewable energy more narrowly, but according to that narrow definition San Diego Electric company Semper is it over 40% right now? So we will meet our 60% goal long before our 2030 call and then of course beyond that We have a hundred percent renewable which would be more difficult And we'll take the invention of storage and grid investments that we haven't made yet So that's electricity where that's our big success story And by the way, we do that Which I think is good to understand because we have a California Air Resources Board that has the authority It has the authority by state law, but it also has the engineers the scientists the analysts Within it this department do you'll carry out a program such as this because it does take a lot of technical confidence and that was created by Ronald Reagan in 1969 at the same time Richard Nixon was creating the Clean Air Act Interestingly enough under the Clean Air Act California was given a special weaver power to articulate promulgate its own vehicle mission standards that gets me my second point mission standards California had the strictest mission standards in America those were adopted and approved under the Obama administration as They must be approved in order to become effective these standards became the national standards in an agreement the president Obama made but they came from California and they were developed out of our own Air Resources Board and by those people in that that agency now president Trump has initiated A program the clock has started to run where he's going to take away California's authority and roll back those standards So they don't meet their trajectory of ever-increasing vehicle efficiency and corresponding reduction in carbon emissions so vehicle Transportation is more than 40% of the greenhouse gas emissions and Just by way of example Car you have about 30 over 30 million vehicles and those vehicles vehicle miles traveled is about 300 Somewhere three hundred and forty three hundred and fifty billion miles a year. So this is quite quite a challenge and Electric and hydrogen cars are absolutely crucial and to achieve that we need technology technological innovation Which is occurring, but we have to speed it up and in that respect China has set a goal to be dominant in Battery technology and that directly affects the American and world auto industry So we not only need the proper regulations, which our president is trying to Undermine in fact destroy and we also need the investment by private capital and public capital in the various aspects of Battery technology and other technologies that go to low emission vehicles. We also have a low carbon fuel standard This is the one of the oil companies like least We set a goal by 2020 that 10% of all fuel in California has to be what we call low carbon and that is defined in by regulation. It's a very very Small amount of carbon emission for that and we have a 10% goal and the state is it Proposed to adopt increasing that to 20 to 20% By 2020 the extent that the oil companies can't meet that they then have to buy allowances And they have to pay In effect and the people who are building either electric cars biofuels or other Corresponding industries that are able to provide what the automobile companies can't do so low carbon fuel reduces Oil demand and oil consumption. It's a very powerful very powerful instrument, but contested and More controversial, but there it is the next thing we have a cap and trade program. I Know George Schultz wants a carbon tax, but we don't have a carbon tax That was a Republican that did that George. That was Schwarzenegger in invented the cap and trade So I carried it out and increased it by the way There is a carbon tax the state of Washington and the oil companies are fighting it so but our cap and trade system Is a system where we put a cap on emissions in major industries refined refineries Food processing Cement a whole range of industries There's a cap and they have to meet the cap and if they don't meet it Then they have to buy allowances those allowances have already generated about seven billion that we then plow into various Climate-related research and activity. So that's cap and trade that should give us 20% of our goal of our reduction to get to get to our 2030 goals and Ultimately in 2045 we want to be at zero and their last point fifth point is efficiency We have appliance standards and we have Building standards and those are ratcheted up over time. I Was governor when the energy commission was created and the first energy standards For appliances and for buildings just to give you a sense of what that entails it took eight years for the building regulations to be written and then It took another year to put them out because there was certain amount of political give and take I decided we should delay it. So it took nine years to write those building regulations and those Have been changed at least three times Recently the last couple years. So that governs new buildings modifications to buildings commercial industrial and Residential and the goal of course is to get to new buildings. There will be zero net energy because the renewable energy they'll have Connected that building or the efficient way in which the building is built. So that's our main thrust and I would say things are our Probably is for for for far reaching as any Jurisdiction in the world, but our number one challenge Is transportation and the only way that transportation will come Meet our goals is if we get the battery technology Cheaper lighter more efficient that when that if we that keeps going at that rate We'll be able to meet our goals. That's a function of investments here in Silicon Valley and China all over the world So we are dependent. We can't do that just in Sacramento. That depends on people investors and Governments all over the world, but I think I'd say we're well, let me put it this way We're doing more than most but it's not adequate and relative to the the science of climate change we're still slipping behind and a lot of the people since the Paris Agreement are Slacking off Germany's emissions are going up Burning more coal Australia wants to burn more coal same thing with Japan. So we have quite a challenge To be able to transform the economy and do it in an efficient politically acceptable way We're doing a lot, but I think there's nothing to take to pause or congratulate about it's all Challenges as far as I'm concerned It's a very impressive programs and They're important in and of themselves, but they also are important because they're influencing other states to follow California's League Can you tell me a little bit about what you're what you'll work with other governors other states? What you might be doing to try to help them or influence them in this direction. Yeah, we have an under two coalition. I started with the Leader of Biden-Wattenberg a couple of years ago. We now have over 200 governors prime ministers Leaders from states provinces and regions throughout the world representing about 40% of the world's gross domestic product and About 25% of the world's population and they've all committed to Keeping their own emissions Consistent with keeping the world emissions under two degrees Centigrade growth from industrial times. So We are building an alliance. We have provinces in China all the all the All the continents of the world, but I would say they're too they're There people have a desire But the technical expertise in government Is limited and in California is blessed We both have the research Here in California and we have the businesses and we have the government counterparts and we're pushing but we need To do a lot now for example what we've done not just weather states, but our air resources bird worked with China in the development of their cap and trade program because when you have a cap and trade program you have to develop a system for measuring emissions by company and then you have to develop an auditing process and That requires a lot of transparency and that has been a struggle, but we have been providing ongoing advice and work with China and we're doing that with other states and We'll do that to a lesser extent with other provinces. So these are this is the effort of sub national Jurisdictions as opposed to the nation-states, but I would say the nation-states are not taking seriously the climate change I'd say nuclear and climate change has a similar lack of attention Relative to what the threat is If we should have a lot more response a lot more attention than than we have Joe you're going to be passing the energy baton under your successor next year Do you have any way of estimating now? Whether these programs if you started are going to be continued diminished increased or what? Well, I think I think because from what I can understand about the science Climate change the things are changing the evidence whether it's the arctic Antarctica or tropical diseases or forest fires in California or intensity of hurricanes The effects of a warming climate are becoming more obvious. So based on that I would I would think That the next governor will continue along this path and certainly I think the most probable Next governor definitely shares that view. I Sound some note of question because a lot of this is Not really in our hands. Let's take our Our portfolio standard. We were talking a few years ago about getting 20% renewable by 2020 The utility said that's ridiculous can't be done. Well, one of the things that happened is China Really pump money into photovoltaics. In fact People will say they were dumping they were Unlawfully subsidized but because they did that and they built some So much of it so much photovoltaic the price came down as the price came down It became the utilities were able to buy and get utility contracts For solar energy at much lower than anybody thought was would be possible five years ago so the technology the breakthrough is crucial at Keeping the march forward because if things are too expensive it gets so very hard the political appetite For paying more It is challenging So I think that's the constraint It's a constraint in China. They got a big coal industry as a chain from Merkel in Germany Because she had an affiliation with the Greens She had to get off a nuclear as part of that coalition But then she substituted with coal which didn't make any sense, but those are the vagaries And there are cost items and there's political items based on the interest groups. So this takes It takes a lot of external factors going in the right direction and so far Things have been going. We're making progress But the curve that to where we are it's gonna get steeper Well, we're we're we started about four and sixty five million tons of greenhouse gas equivalent a year now We're down to four 35 or 440 if we can measure that actually and we're starting to get down to like a hundred and sixty five That's a very steep curve. How the hell we gonna do that? It's gonna take every every conceivable market regulatory investment R&D private public effort so and it's almost like a Almost I don't want to say a war footing, but it takes some some of that Heroism to deal with climate change and we're by no means at that topic I mean in Congress half the people there deny Climate change or don't want to talk about it So we got a lot first you got to acknowledge it Then you got to get a path forward and then you got to be willing to to pay and to Adapt in the way you have to all of that. I think is an open question of of how we're gonna get it done So I don't want to be too discouraging, but I don't want you to feel good when you leave here When you have a little bit a little tugging your stomach that gosh, we got to do something more because that's the truth Well, you've left a legacy that you can be very proud of but to still much unfinished business in the energy field If you had another two years before years ahead of yours governor, what would be your focus on Energy probably what what's the unfinished business you'd want to tackle and put the primary energies on? Well, we've been putting a lot on on electric vehicles. We're building charging stations I'm trying to We were constrained by the federal government in the adoption of emission standards We have to get a waiver and now that whole process is now under attack. I mean by under attack I mean there is a proposal by the Environmental Protection Agency that is followed the federal register to destroy the regulatory regime that we have and in fact what I'd like to see is an increased commitment to zero emission vehicles and The auto companies are responding they have like 30 different kind of Electric electric cars so that we have electric buses electric school buses are coming in pretty good We have two companies one Chinese one American in California that are building Electric buses so I think what I would like to do is to get that transportation Going and we have this zero this autonomous vehicles We just gave the permit say to California for a Google should I don't know if it's going out yet But it should be going out to there tomorrow where they can start testing the autonomous vehicles on the streets So there's a lot of change. They help us Reduce the emissions in the transportation sector and that's an area that I very much like to work on and Also getting other states and the federal government to be part of it because we can't do it alone California is not an island Is California industry Rising to the energy challenge how much are the things that being done by industry on response to regulations and how much is a response To the economics of the situation the economics can be pushing it, but they're regulation on travel Which is more important here the economics of the regulation Well, the regulation is important because we said like the portfolio standard we say that PG&E has to have you know 30% Well, we said 20% and then we upped it 30 and now we just upped it to 50 and then we just upped it again to 60 Well, they're actually Buying people are coming they have to get to 60% so individual companies come along and they they have they have solar or wind Geothermal Biometer energy sources By and they come along and they bid and PG&E has to buy To get to the to the to the target 60% so that regulation Drives actual Purchases and because it's a regulated utility the capital is there because the public utilities commission Will assure they get a proper rate of return so the money is there the policies are in place because they're legally mandated and the companies are in the market actively evaluating bids from entrepreneurs who are selling them But principally solar in California and that is going up all the time So that's where regulation can really stimulate and I think the same thing is true in electric vehicles We it's not the regulation isn't strong enough in my opinion to really push the electric cars in the way they Electric trucks and things that we have to do so you need the right regulation not too much not model-headed not inflexible But then you of course you need the investment To to bring the technology to market. So you need we need it's a collaborative effort We've heard in earlier briefings today There's a very promising future for autonomous vehicles Mr. Governor you have conflicting interests here on the one hand The opportunity to see this new technology move forward and the economy move forward and the other hand is the public safety issue How do you balance those or how could you but how should it be balanced properly? That's a good question Because when I first heard about these tonical Because I could tell them to It's a big issue because Sergey Brin and Larry Page called said we want to come to the governor's mention and talk to you So they spent two hours talking to me. Well, that's the only time I ever talked to them And very few CEOs are saying I can come and talk to you that doesn't happen Usually I'm calling them to give me a campaign contribution So I got the idea it's important and I listened to them And it is important, but yeah, we're letting them they're driving around they got I don't know how many hundreds of cars they have permission for but they're putting them on the street and Yeah, I do I do wonder see all these cars with nobody behind the drivers Behind the wheel. Yeah, that seems a little spooky to me But everybody they seem to everybody's investing in it. I think this seems to be like a no-brainer So I I just hope between now and time I leave there are no accidents But It seems like well, we have our department of motor vehicles. Hopefully you haven't tried to get a license the last week Because that's we really need we need an autonomous department of motor vehicles that Would give you a license like that Well, it's not entirely the bureaucracy the poor computer system, you know, these things have to be upgraded a little slow Then we get this real ID where you have to have a very special identification that cost money and then we had the The undocumented we had about a million people in that category and that took a lot of time Then we have this thing where you get your voter registration At the same time all that was more than the poor DMV could Figure out so they're digging themselves out of the hole things are getting much faster Particularly if you make an appointment anyway in between the time. They're doing all this stuff. They got to develop a Protocol for how a ton of uncle via autonomous vehicles work and they first so you can test this money under these conditions with this kind of Monitoring and that's what we're doing. So I mean we're putting our faith in the Department of Motor Vehicles We have time for one more question. I'm going to throw you a softball. What's that? It's pretty clear that if energy costs were made accurately That we'd be moving a lot faster towards energy efficiency So what I'd like to do is give you an opportunity to expound a little bit on carbon tax How important it is? What's the right way of doing it? What success we've had and what the obstacles you've run into? Well, obviously you got to put a price on carbon because it has externalities they have to be taken into account and The externality of a rising temperature is huge. So that has to be priced It would probably be a rather rather large price So you have to figure out how you Probably if you're gonna put up a significant price You're gonna have to rebate that so that you can cushion the effect. Otherwise, politically it'd be Virtually impossible and we'll see what happens up in in Washington I think cap and trade is a we have that system. I don't think I could have passed a carbon tax So the one we had I Decided I would improve that. I think it has some value. It doesn't sound as scary as a carbon tax people don't like taxes Well, we'll find out how much you like taxes I'm turning them on what the vote if the vote on six is no then you'll know that people like taxes Or they don't know what proposition six is Any Any event I do think we need a price on carbon. We need a federal price We need Negotiations with the countries of the world in fact the UN the UN is promoting this but it takes national governments takes President of China and Russia and all of them But so the answer is it takes a universal price on carbon And I think that will have a lot of opposition from coal companies oil companies Whomever, but that's that's the way to go and if we can Can get that idea through and I think whatever can make that tax Sable is what we need because the most important thing is putting the burden on carbon. So it's true Cost it's true or cost is Recognized is put into the price that you have to pay because we are definitely Taking free goods and spending them by our air and our climate. So yeah, I think how you do that Easier to say it then to actually make that happen in the American political system or in any other political system Now the common common market has a price on carbon. It's about twenty five dollars It's going up, but the thing is gonna have to go a lot higher than that Jerry I'd like to conclude this program By thanking you for the significant and the concrete actions you've taken to deal with climate change in your eight years as governor