 Okay, I would like to kick off this open house. My name is Kate Orff. I am the director of the MSAU date or urban design program. And we are just very, very happy to have you all with us today. Okay, normally, probably sort of pre pandemic we will be having, we'll be on the fourth floor of the building that you see here, which is a home of Columbia GSAP, and and be sort of taking you through the different classes that are in session and you can tour the amazing Avery architectural library which is this arched space at the ground floor of Avery Hall, which is a sort of a library that is second to none in terms of a place to be in a place to study. And so we're going to, in lieu of that give you a kind of a virtual introduction to program. So just ask if you're joining now if you would go and mute, so that we can proceed. So, we will begin. We are, if you haven't seen our website it is located here at the bottom arched at Columbia.edu, and I say UD, and hopefully you've had a chance to peruse the website and to look at our mission or kind of pedagogical goals, our vision for the program, and etc. Another way that you can learn more about a UD once we finish this. This session would be to look us up on Twitter, which is on the lower left at where handle is at Columbia D and an Instagram at gsep underscore a UD. So you probably are aware of that plus the gseps regular Instagram feed we really just highlight some student work and some student projects on the on the Instagram feed here. We are a post professional degree program. And so we're very happy to have incredible, very global group of students. And, and so today, our goal is to simply welcome you and just, we're very pleased that you're interested in the urban design program. We're going to give you an overview of the program in about 40 minutes time, and then we'll have plenty of time for q amp a. Also, I believe that you have received some links from the admissions office. So, after we conclude here, we would encourage you to, you know, visit some other spaces in Avery visit some other, you know, the other classes there in session studio that is in session round so you get a sense of the kinds of classes you might be taking if you were to matriculate here. So speaking to you today at me Kate or that's me on the left and my email is KO 2111 and also David smiley who's the assistant director David can you say hello. We're glad you're here. And we're happy to tell you what's going on what we like to do and what we expect of you and if you have any questions anytime put it in the chat or email either of us. We want to get as much information to you as possible. We look forward to talking with you or zooming with you now and in the future. See you in a minute. Okay, so we're still admitting some students as they're coming coming through. But again, here is a snapshot of Avery Hall this will be your, you know, your building and the urban design studio is both in Avery and in terms of our classrooms, and the bare weather where we have a very large generous light filled studio that has been renovated two years ago with current, you know, equipment and a really really nice space. So we emphasize this because, you know, even though you would be joining the urban design program, you will really be part as Columbia student at large and so, in addition to all of the lectures and, you know, events and seminars etc that are accessible to you as a GSAP student which is Graduate School of Architecture Planning and Preservation. You also really have access to the Columbia campus writ large. And so there's always a concert or, you know, a lecture in the global thought program or, you know, that so you will really have access to quite an expanded, you know, realm of intellectual work. Interestingly to, as you may know, Columbia has started the climate school which is a school like no other, which is really focusing Columbia's efforts around climate so it's quite an exciting time to be at Columbia in general. So our program office is on the fourth floor so if you were to visit you can come see us on the fourth floor for 11. And a quick kind of snapshot of our program so we are an urban design programs is not planning and it's not architecture, rather, it is an urban design program so that is a design fairly a design intensive curriculum. You can see here in Avery Hall in one of those rooms that I just showed you. And this is essentially how we work students work together in teams sometimes of three and in many cases in teams and three. So we have very intensive, a design process and pin up throughout the, the three semesters that you would be joining us. It is a one year calendar program that consists of three semesters so this is a view of a final semester project that also includes a video and other elements. And so just to note that it is a design oriented program not necessarily policy in the term in terms of planning. We do study really the design of large scale urban systems and cities of the future so it is quite a different concept from of design and we, we kind of very have a very different methodology and say a traditional architecture program. The methodology is quite exploratory, we look in an expansive context that urban at cities and their regions, and we look at broad questions of infrastructure policy economics, social justice and ecosystems, but really kind of tie them very directly to an urban space and so we sort of toggle back and forth between systems and spaces right so we look systematically but we try to scale that to sort of spatial design. So this is an example of an end of year show from some years back, you can see someone in graduate school in their cap and gown there. This is a sort of a celebratory party that we have to welcome parents and friends of students, and we usually make an exhibition. Since the global pandemic has impacted all facets of education and simply, I don't know if impact is the word I would say use the word changed all facets of the education. We have operated incredibly sort of nimbly I would say spanning both online teaching elements with in person elements, however I wanted to emphasize that our entire studio is in person now and masked and all working together. We're in why I say hybrid is because Columbia, like almost every institution in the Northeast also has cannot allow outside visitors which is why we cannot welcome you into the doors of every hall. So, when we do have, you know, we have such a global reach and set of colleagues who we invite for online for reviews etc. So we've been doing some in some cases reviews online and kind of coupling online and high and in person elements for example. I just want to add one thing to that is you go back to that zoom image. Okay. It's really important, despite the virus and the tragedies that are told in it. We've learned a lot about communication about different ways to communicate using the row and other softwares of videos and, and it's not going to go away so actually very pleased to have learned new ways to conduct our research and our collaborations. Great. So, let's see. So let's go to the next slide. And so now I'm going to give you a little bit of a quick overview of the pedagogical goals and the program structure. I spoke a little bit about our desire to kind of engage all of you in these broad, broad questions about the future of the world cities and the role of urban design as a kind of active sort of agent for change and urban design is just an incredible program because if you're on this call and you're probably aware, you know, students come with a background in architecture or landscape architecture or have a bachelor's degree in one of these subjects. What it means is that we have incredible amount of space to be experimental, and to really sort of focus in on the true questions at hand so we have a very flexible curriculum and can really kind of cut at the, the, the, the, you know, the core of the challenges facing the world today so, and how we do that is by very carefully sequencing and combining seminars and studios about these, these broader questions and, and we have focused in a very intensive way in the past say seven years on issues of social justice and issues of climate and equity. So, and climate change and climate resilience. So, and you'll see this as we move through the rest of the, you know, the description. So, as a MSAUD student, you would be taking a series of three studios and you would have many options for seminars that you would take, and together these these combined to kind of create the kind of unique and special program for you. For example, if you're truly interested in issues of housing, we have multiple seminars on housing that are available to you if you're interested in ecosystems or coastal environments, we have seminars for that so, although we're all together in the studio. The seminars are a chance for you to really kind of sharpen refine your individual learning preferences. So first, we'll give you a walk through the studio curriculum because it is a studio based program, and we have sort of perfected over or we're constantly perfecting I would say the, the sequence and the content of these three studios, and they're in this way at upon joining the program in June, usually around June 1. You would be together in a studio on New York City, and New York City is our learning laboratory it's a city that we all know and love very well. In fact, your professor Suggie is a has been is not only a graduate of the urban design program but essentially is one of the sort of top officials in New York City planning office so the city, the first semester is very focused on that scale of the five boroughs of New York City. And, you know, although it's New York focused, it's incredible learning opportunity for cities around the world how they're organized, how urban design happens how projects get stalled or don't. What are the pressures of development relative to equity etc. This second semester, which you would be kind of commencing in September, and which is happening now so if you are to jump over and look at the this afternoon at Professor Emmanuel admiss is studio you'd be studying the urbanized region and that's really that core of semester to look more on that in a minute, and then your third and final semester is more global in in reach and in the conversation really turns to more global systems. And that includes, you know, the sort of economics of globalization that looks at environmental ecosystem, you know, ecosystems and environmental systems at a global scale. And, and we travel to cities around the world and develop this comparable compare compare comparative context. Good. I'll turn it over to you to speak a little bit about studio one. Everybody. Studio one which is the summer semester starts about June 1. And it deals with New York City neighborhoods or the concept of a neighborhood. How is it made how is it change how is affected by policy and ecology. And I must also admit that we actually have jumped the rivers and we have included New Jersey periodically in our studies so we're the metro area as much as New York City neighborhoods. And you will walk the neighborhoods you will meet people, you will interview people you will participate in local organizations. And it is really for you to understand and to be able to document and discuss at a kind of very local level challenges and opportunities related to health ecology social justice, even climate change, because they do have climate effects as well as global effects. And it's a chance for you to meet your peers and get to know how different people work, you will be working in groups so that you will be able to stroll the city and the company of others. This is an instance about two years ago of a review this is a recent photo of a neighborhood, the northern tip of Manhattan, where I'm sorry in the Bronx, where students are out masked, and, and getting to know a particular neighborhood. So, the great thing about the summer semesters the weather's good. And you, since things seem to be going well with the coronavirus will be able to see New York and experience all sorts of ways that New York is amazing both in the studio. And in the seminars that have to deal with video making and interview techniques and mapping techniques, and really the summer is a kind of introduction to the tools that we use to get here in the summer and you will have an intense semester, because the rest of the summer is actually Columbia is very quiet, so you'll be able to focus on these few classes, and really learn how to walk the city and how to document the city, and how to represent and learn to talk to different people around the city. So, when it comes away from the summer, kind of thrilled to have really learned New York, and, and been able to become comfortable in New York City, and New Jersey, if you, if we cross the river. And, and get a sense that when we talk about urban design we don't just talk about cities, talking about neighborhoods we talk about regional ecologies, we talk about climate change as well. And I can add to that your entire summer curriculum is is coordinated so it consists of a cluster of classes that include the studio class that include software. So, just, you know, normally there's a lot of questions around software like what do I need to know how much do I need to know. But what we do is when you come in. We have a very extensive survey. So essentially we meet you wherever you are relative to your ability to use software like GIS, or AutoCAD or Rhino, or the Adobe Suite etc. So if you're quite advanced in GIS, you know you might, someone will, you know, we'll be able, we're able to sort of adjust that but essentially this summer isn't a fantastic sort of what we will call like tools, tools and techniques building time so in addition to, you know that being out in the city learning and learning, learning New York back and forth, you will really kind of all be essentially sort of like level set if you will relative to urban theory, relative to digital technologies and tools, relative to a sort of a signature course that we offer which is called reading New York urbanism and relative to, you know, studio and exploratory propositional design techniques so it's really quite a powerhouse team faculty and a great way to sort of meet each other. Great. So in the fall semester. The first thing we should note is that after your summer of mostly a kind of given set of classes where you learn the kind of the basics and the tools in the second and third semesters you have a lot more freedom to take classes across the university, or in elsewhere at the Graduate School of So studio to is about regions and what we might call the urbanization of the region where development is taking place in various forms. And so we look at land and property exchange ecological issues. And we really connect with for number of years we've been looking north of New York and the Hudson Valley. Currently, we're working in Atlanta and other regionalized kind of urban armature. And we look at in the Hudson Valley which we did for over five years. We looked at this publication from five years of studios. It's called justice in place where we looked at social justice and agriculture and culture and prison and incarceration systems and economics environments and health. And we looked at some of the stress communities in the Hudson Valley over a number of years work with local organizations, and kind of looked at how design could change things, introduce new ways of helping people in the valley help helping people understand and helping organizations and municipal level politics understand how change can be planned for and designed for. We also spent the last two years combining our regional studios with the Green New Deal and the climate crisis. And so we shifted a little bit towards the agenda of the Green New Deal and trying to use it as a as a device to help us think not accepting it point blank but really stretching our capacity to look at how social life and and community growth and community health could be affected through a design position that takes climate change and a new way of acting in the environment. And so we did that for two years in various towns in the Hudson Valley. So, finally, we made a big switch this year we have a very great new professor in their design program and my deal, I'm a sue. And he's joined us and shifted our regional view this semester to city and region of Atlanta, and he is looking at social and racial justice. And he's looking at the question of property and the history of property as a device of exclusion and a device of capital accumulation, which unfairly treats from some over others. So he's looking at both historically and our policy set of questions, but also looking at how to participate with neighborhood groups to engage with people on the ground. To rethink how the role of property as a kind of device that could change urban design if we rethink the question of property of ownership of decision making processes that have been affected by racist and and class based institutions and governmental regulations. And as you see in the bottom of this image going back to the very planning of a lot of cities. Savannah being an ancient example where property became a form of colonization and drastic change. And then the image above was the, the homeowner loan corporation 1930s in us which codified racial exclusion into the very boundaries and and the edges of cities and neighborhoods. So we've really taken on the notion of, of how the land and the organization of land is very much a part of the experience of place over time and very unequal and very poorly distributed ways. Students are currently working through a system of sampling and and site finding where they're looking at the histories and current conditions of different neighborhoods, and different way different organizations trying to make change and housing and open space and in public health. And we're very excited about this kind of expansion of what we call the regional examination because no city exists outside of a very broad reach into a regional ecology as well as a regional social ecology. So we're very happy to be making this jump. And hopefully, later in the semester we can have some more open reviews. One thing which is that, although, you know, I, and I, this studio is focused on the history of Atlanta. What's fascinating and we were aware and the urban design program is often quite an international mix there are some years where we have students from, I think different countries, but that I think wherever you choose to live or practice, whether it's in the US or abroad, all of these lessons that that David just described are deeply relevant in terms of their ability to be thought through and transformed and translated into an over space and time because the principles that Emmanuel are teaching are are just very broadly relevant right now. Yes, absolutely. It's one of the key questions is being an international program. We have to recognize all of us you and us that exclusion and property and inequality are global problems. The race has emerged as a kind of, or been revealed as a structural problem for for practically all of our history. And we expect that when you kind of learn about how things work through our program you will be able to see in your own places of origin or your own homes or wherever you move to that inequality is a kind of constant constant tension sometimes overcome sometimes a challenge. We expect everyone to really take that to heart no matter where you're from or where you intend to be. Great. And so if you were to join, I think you we were provided the links to I think, Professor Edmas who is having review today correct David so I think everyone on this call should have gotten a link for that if not we can put that in the chat after we stop sharing the screen. Great. Okay, so the third, the three semester sequence is really a studio focused on the global frame and issues touched upon in this third and final semester include climate water informality ecosystems resilience and social capital. We call team taught studios so even though I am the coordinator of the studio, we have literally some of the best and most transformative individuals and urban designers throughout in the United States teaching on our teaching team for example this is Gita Meta to my left, that is Poloski Gita's expertise is in social capital and informality that is his expertise is in disaster resilience, urban and planning and architecture. So we have Adriana Chavez, whose expertise is sort of water and global cities, and then we have Dilip Dukuna, who's has written probably I think five or six books on sort of water and kind of post colonial futures. So this is just an example of a study trip. This was in Pune, India, which is, you know what we do is, we plan a week long trip. If not, sometimes 10 days, we interview, you know, significant individuals like the mayor or the planning director in this case a leader of an activist group. We develop we have a sort of a onsite charrette that we often work with students from schools on the ground for example when we were in Kent, Vietnam, we worked with Kent University students etc when we were in Mozambique, we worked with Edward Jelen students etc. So, these slides, these images represent some of the more recent past studios, and you can tell that they are, they range from, you know, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, several sites in India, Madurai, Pune, Varanasi and Calcutta, and Kanpa in Vietnam, and then two sites in Jordan, Aman and Aqaba. Of course, all experiencing the challenges of climate and water and equity differently. But what's been so wonderful is that over time, we've been able to kind of develop a comparative context in which we sort of that we learn from all of these cities and then in the end cities also learn from from each other. Here are just some snapshots of Aman, where you know just give you a sense of what we're looking at agriculture on the top right, new infrastructure, the bottom two slides of water pipes and massive road building questions of housing. And for example, when we were in Jordan, our students collaborated to develop a large scale map of failing water infrastructure across the entire country, and began to integrate this kind of map of obsolescence into their design projects. And then upon returning to New York City, students work in different groups to continue the collaboration in many cases with the onsite students that they were working with, and develop projects that sort of span that system scale down to scales of spaces. So this was a very, you know, one tiny piece of one a very elaborate board around the redesign of a public space relative to those principles. More recently, we've taken students to along the Great Brick Valley, and we in one year took students to three different sites you don't go to all three you would select one. This travel is fully paid by Columbia as part of a kidney award so the trip may receive a stipend and so it is of no cost to you to travel. So the sites in this case were to the UFO, Addis Ababa and Vera Mozambique, and at the end of the Q&A I'll put some links to some of this work in the chat. So we visited these three sites, and then they were in dialogue with each other in the sense that we had faculty and students sort of interacting across a broader spectrum. And actually this work is being currently exhibited in the Seoul Biennale of architecture and urbanism. So if there's anyone in Korea on this call, please let us know and go to see this exhibition. Recently, we were unable to travel due to COVID restrictions, but we were able to do this really incredible studio called envisioning the Mississippi as a living liver in partnership with the National Wildlife Foundation and the Walton Family Foundation and a number of other foundations in the United States. So we took the opportunity of no travel to really think big and broadly about the American landscapes and what we need to do. So we have a very elaborate and thoughtful story map here that goes through Mississippi Portrait with photography depicts the studio wide design vision, and then also all of the student work is categorized into these spatial vision, spatial vision so at the scale of the entire country. We developed 11 projects at 11 sites, and we also had a Mississippi River cities and towns initiative and met with the mayors of these various towns. So this is just an example of student work at St. Genevieve. And so I can assure you that whatever the situation is, if we are able to travel, we will travel to a very, very exciting place, and it will be a very, very well coordinated and prepared study trip. If we are not able to travel, you receive that stipend anyway, and we will devise a non travel option. My feeling is, as I imagine you all are thinking is that we will be able to travel in 2023. We will be determined. We're all in the same boat every university across the board are in lockstep with their policies and so we will be in lockstep with our university directives. David, I'll turn it back to you to talk about seminars. Okay. Our studio typically takes up 25 hours a day of your life. Turns out that we also make room for seminars of different types, both within our program at GSAP as a whole and even across the university. You need to take one seminar each of the fall and spring semesters. They're all very exciting and you'll have lots of choices. We want you to understand the seminar as different kinds of research, looking at different kinds of places, looking at different kinds of actors and processes, all kind of in conflict and one way or another both historically and in the present and for the foreseeable future. The seminars are small anywhere from 10 to 20 students usually, and we, you'll have choices and you'll rank your choices and you'll get usually first or second choice. And there's different topics related to, you know, kinds of your own interest from ecology to public space to design to urban design tools and and forms to human rights to resilience. To typologies and changing typologies, and even to the discipline of urban design itself and the problems it encounters as a kind of practice. We pride ourselves on having a really good faculty student relationships in these seminars. They're very intensive where you can be, if you want to be writing a traditional paper you can if you want to be doing research and archives you can if you want to do a kind of speculative design projects. Some professors will allow that. You know we have obviously themes and syllabi and all that but we really want you to find the kind of research that works for you with respect to concerns you have in the world today. Next please. If you can make this out it's not great but each seminar has a kind of different theme. On the left my seminar that deals with public space as a kind of a series of rhetorics and practices. On the right, it's called urban design in the wild where the professor actually kind of looks at conflicts in New York City neighborhoods and metropolitan area neighborhoods to see how urban design works when it meets with professionals and community organizations and all sorts of other conflicts and how they resolved or not. On the right, I'm sorry lower left is a difference and design taught by Justin Moore. Basically essentially looking at race and other forms of exclusion in various American cities and towns where you would be inventing a kind of research project demonstrating how these things have been dealt with historically but also at present. Looking ahead. And finally on the low right class called recombinant urbanism taught by Graham Shane, who's an author of one of the great books on urban design since 1945. We urge you to check out. He looks globally at how different cities have come to be so he takes a historical look at cities with students and they make really great GIFs and videos about how cities are have combined historically with different kinds of elements with different kinds of policies and different kinds of political and ecological ecological questions. So these are just four of the different of the variety Kate also teaches a series of seminars on ecology and ecological politics and resilience. Real quick, my, my most recent seminar was called resilience landscape resilient landscapes, and we focused on looking at climate change and indigenous landscapes and communities around the globe so. And it culminated in an event called title community speaks the experience of underserved and indigenous communities and facing the future so, and I can put a link to that in the chat so that has to do much more with sort of rural and smaller scale towns but we engaged with the Shinnecock in here in Eastern Long Island, we had a presentation with the Shinnecock and interaction with Shinnecock with Alaska native villages and Shishmoref, the Gullahichi in South Carolina, and others so quite a quite a moving seminar for me personally as well learned so much. And so to sort of wrap up we're now at about 40 minutes, as promised, we wanted to encourage you also, in addition to the Q amp a to feel free to peruse the end of your show from last year, this is our full good year of of education and the work is really fantastic and couldn't be prouder of our students and our faculty. So we'll place this through but you can certainly give it a look through and you'll get a sense of the kind of work that you might be doing, where you to join the urban design program. And, and finally, Columbia in general has amazing series of centers. I mentioned the, the climate school, which is in formation and just took its first group of MS students. And our program is very much linked to the climate school, my seminar is co listed with the climate school, and this center which is based at GSAP which I co direct with that is Alaska, the Center for Resilience Cities and Landscapes has been doing quite a bit of work over the past four to five years in a global, global context. I wanted to leave you with this image of New York City. If you were to come here. This would be your, your home. And I think we can close there with just a statement of, you know, we'd be happy to take your questions. And we'd encourage you to apply. And if you're probably aware, but if you click on, you know, applied that she sat Columbia that you that will take you to the online application and there is a modest portfolio requirement. And there is a sort of a statement required. And, and then the second link brings you to tuition and financial aid opportunities, we often have at least 10 partial scholarships to to to share. So I will stop sharing my screen now, and we will open it up for some questions or question and answers so you can feel free to just put your question in the chat, and we'll read it out loud and go through them one at a time. Okay, I'll start with the, with the first one. Looking at the question of a larger scale approach, as well as smaller scale work, public seating or memorial design. The first thing that we say, almost always and I think it's a great question is that we look at all scales we're interested in students because you have an architecture background, and you're learning the urban background as well. So at every project we do we ask for you to deal with the smallest and the largest of scales and intermediate scales. So we're very interested in that, especially since you're working in groups, different people can develop different specializations within that. So benches. Yeah, absolutely, you know, I mean what is a public place without a bench, or the lack of benches would be a notable missing public public space question. But yes, we were very much interested in the politics and design questions with large and all scales across all scales. And I see across time as well. Yeah, across time. I was just going to note that I see a future question a little bit further down which is also talking about architecture. And absolutely, I mean, every, you know, you know, we have groups that completely focus on new architectural interventions or the design of housing, or other other elements of the urban fabric so in addition to larger scale sort of systemic and kind of landscape driven projects. We also, you know, also sort of introduce architecture and, and housing as elements that we're also able to, we're also able to get feedback on and navigate. And I think the difference between architecture and urban design is always that architecture isn't assumed to be the answer. It's assumed to be sort of part of a mix of economics engagement landscape and other kind of thoughts. So if you were taking an architecture studio might be like, okay, we're designing the US Embassy in Korea, you know, or something, and that would be an architectural, you know, response would be sort of presupposed but I would just say, in urban design we don't presuppose architecture as the sole response to a design or an urban question. Another way to put that is that we spend a lot of time on research that goes to water systems and ecological systems, weather patterns, social, social assistance or lack thereof. We, we express our interest through regionalization of research. So we really ask you to be able to understand what's at stake at a very, very grand scale and kind of an extensive reach. At the same time, someone's asking what about architectural projects, do, do we get to do buildings. And I would say it's, it's kind of up to you and we are working with and the kind of questions you're asking. We encourage as much detail as possible. So the decision that you would need to make with your critics, and with your collaborators to see what's important about that. Sometimes, it's more important to design a kind of community based drainage system than it is to design a building or above. In urban design, which we really should call something else but we are stuck with the term urban design, because we design landscapes and we're interested in, you know, all sorts of infrastructures. And it might be that you design a very refined and developed community infrastructure that deals with water or waste, or how to save water or how to redirect sun. I mean, these are all questions that are facing the planet, urban, regional, desert, agricultural. And yes, there might be an occasional building. Yes. It's, it's your call. Okay. We do have a question about the, the degree, and David I think maybe it says is this a nav accredited program so the urban design program is a post professional degree program and this means that if you're applying to the program that you have a degree, which it's up to you to sit for licensure in either architecture, or landscape architecture so it is not in and of itself providing accreditation. And so just wanted to be clear on that. Anything else out there David. Another way to put that is you have to come if you're in the US from a nav accredited program. So you already need a degree from a nav accredited program that allows you to be to what we say sit for the exam. You don't have to have taken the exam but you have to come from a program that prepares you to sit for the exam. Now other countries, you'll have to just ask us independently, because there's lots of different countries with different ways of judging as an architect and in professional terms, and we do our best to go by the countries of your origin where you're got your degree from to make sure that our program is right for you, both personally but also legally. And also just add we didn't mention this but the, the, our program is also a stem designated program so if you are coming from non US context, it is stem designated and you have a three year visa which is very exciting for many. Okay, let's see. A really good question. My most applicants coming straight from undergrad, I would say a majority are, but we recommend that you actually get a job, if you can, and work for a year, a good, good chunk of our students were have worked for a year or two years, even three or four years. There's a really great addition to the studio environment when you have people who are fresh from a research and design mentality to those who've been in the professional world and understand some of the other kinds of questions that emerge in offices and practices. So it's a good mix. And we just want to put together a good class. So it's like I say it's usually a mix and we strive to keep it a mix. And it's usually a great challenge because we put people in, you know, we encourage you to make groups and collaborate sometimes your partner will have been someone in an office for a few years and they're looking to you for some things you're looking to them for other things. And so there's a real dynamism and it really works really well. If someone asks about working full time. That's something that you should take up with with Kate or I more specifically, we would prefer if you did not work, except perhaps on campus, if necessary, but we understand that everybody has different needs but it's only a one year program. One of the reasons that the program was shortened from four semesters to three continuous semesters was to accommodate a kind of more economic reality that that most people have so we, we hope that you can you can make that work. Great. Yeah, and I had nothing more really to add on that and all I would say is the, the program is intensive and is one calendar year. And so it was specifically, you know, contained so that when you're here, you are really 100% at Columbia. And in the end, it really comes out so that if you work well while you're here, you, you know, you were able to truly thrive. Once you graduate and my only you know there's no, you know, what I have seen personally, being in this and working in this program for for decades now is that you really get in get out what you put in right so if you are stretched in and your group needs to meet and you're working on a, you know, competition for another firm, then it just becomes more difficult to coordinate so my my two senses like you are able to do anything to help you to thrive personally but I've really seen students thrive who are really 100% at Columbia right that means going to lectures on Mondays that means hanging out with fellow students on Friday that means, you know, the full picture. We had a question also around where students go after this degree, and actually we just had two years ago, a great convening of many of our alumni. I would say that if you go into the UD website and you scroll down, you will see interviews with our Columbia urban design graduates, I would say that the degree is fascinating because you can work in a practice of architecture design, for example, I could name five here in the New York area, like WXY, like FX collaborative, like SOM, Byerblinder Bell, Scape, many other large firms that take urban design graduates. And so many of our graduates do work in so called the private sector for professional architects, urban designers or planners. We also have a graduate Crystal Ng who received a sort of a 40 under 40 prize and she's her expertise has been sustainability and housing. So as we mentioned before, you know how you sequence your studios and with your seminars really gives you a kind of a direction to push. So in addition to the private sector, many of our students also go on to work in the public sector for like at the for the city of New York, one of our graduates is the lead planner for the city of Chicago. We have many, many graduates in the city of New York. We have many graduates also who are in urban driven profits, nonprofits and NGOs globally. So that means in India. And for example, we have the former, the director of large scale NACTO kind of transportation group, which has been, you know, the center of the initiative to transform large scale streets and highways into more pedestrian and public scale spaces. We have all graduates of our program. We also have graduates of our program working for UN habitat and graduate graduates who go on to pursue PhDs in planning or in PhDs in data and design or other elements so it's quite a flexible degree, and a lot of different avenues for taking that forward in public and private rounds. Yes, I think what's great about the fact that you will have an architecture background with an urban design specialization. I think our students return to architectural practices and lead or work in the urban design departments. So it's a way to kind of go back to a firm that they even had worked and worked to other urban design firms that also do architecture. And it's it's very flexible because in many ways, really good firms really enlarge firms recognize the need for the large scale thinking of urbanism and urbanization. So we have students who in China are working for planning agencies that are dealing with huge, huge projects. And then they're, they're essentially, you know, we're all urbanists now of one sort or another, and students in South America are working for NGOs that deal with intervening in the urbanization process in different towns and small cities. And it's, it's, it's really, it's really a useful way to enter the world at a scale where where you're dealing with some amazingly difficult issues. That's really true. I just saw a question about the age of students and so we have had older, I am 50 full disclosure, you know, I, and so we are, you know, young at heart but we are very experienced and I would just say, you know, an older, you know, or a student that has more work experience. You will probably will do well we've had just two years ago we had a student of that age Angus, and you can speak to him, if you like about his experience, and I would just emphasize that is just communication would be key right because you have a certain degree of maturity and experience that is, you know, different from say somebody who's 26 or 25. So, as long as everyone is, is in good communication. That's great, but I think the degree is, is perfectly a great interest for somebody who for example has worked in architecture for for some time and really wants to come back and sink their teeth into larger urban questions. So, as a person, a few people have asked for about joint degrees, I think. Since we're a one year program, you would be welcome to apply for a second program if you want to do one after you complete our program. The planning program, for instance, does run joint degrees, but it's a two year program with a summer in between so it has more capacity. But we have many students who go on to do either a real estate degree, or business degree, for instance, some of them actually go on as Kate said into PhDs and more specialized forms of global governance and urban thinking. But it's really important to realize that it's three semesters, it's really intense. It goes by in a flash, as everybody will tell you, and that's an amazing year you're going to have. Some of you will like be able to reach out and take classes in other places, and some of you will just kind of zero in and dig really deep. But think joint degree as like another degree afterwards, not while you're in the new D program. And you will make some amazing friendships and relationships. I do. I'm so glad that you said that day because I know we have to close now because some of our students want to go through. But let's put this last question very important what's looked at at the portfolio, you do not have to submit a portfolio of urban design work to be admitted to the urban design program, do not worry. Just put your portfolio together. We're interested in just knowing and learning about you and what you're interested in, you can have a portfolio of small scale pavilions and explain why you're interested in urban design and that will do it for us. We are not expecting you to have an urban design portfolio do not just put together your work and as it represents your creative ambitions, and that's it. I would like to ask everybody to not stress out about the portfolio in fact, so many of the portfolios look sort of generic and the same, we just want to know more about about you. And so just, you know spend time and thinking about your statement, and why you want to apply, and that's that's really what we're looking for. There's a question about the admissions rate I actually don't know the answer to that, but we do just ask, you know that, you know that you put it if you have a good statement, and if you have very, you know, positive references you have a very, you know, you would have a very strong chance of being admitted as, as, you know, as a student. We want you to show us your best self and whatever form that takes. So, let you know sometimes you can put in too much stuff. So be careful. Show us what's really good about you. And I will go through the chat kid and I will go through the chat today and send out mass email response from the list that we have from those people who were here. So if we didn't get to your questions specifically we will get to your question. And feel free to keep sending questions and I guess so we have to go. Great, so thanks everybody for participating we really appreciate your time. And as David mentioned, we will circle back to you with with any questions and you have his email DS 210. And if you want to follow up directly and mine is KO 2111 best to copy us both. Thanks everybody, and have a fabulous afternoon. Bye.