 Sir, whether we are having any plan of the registration of the engineers or technical teachers like the MCI used to do for the doctors, we are having plan. So it will help for that one teacher's name appears in the menu of the colony. Excellent question which I have wantedly skipped this. We have put a proposal to MHRD like your registration of doctors. We have put a proposal to them but Government of India says that it is the prerogative of MHRD to do this and they are reluctant to give this responsibility to ISTE. When Mr. Pandey, he must be knowing it, when Mr. Pandey was there as joint secretary, we took up with him but he said that it is the prerogative of MHRD to do this and yes, put the file code water on the file and the proposal is with MHRD, if it clicks it will be excellent. But they are not taking any action on that and AICT is also not doing any work on it. If it is there, it will be very fine as you like. Excellent point Maid, in fact it is a sore point many places that because of this lack of database as you rightly pointed out the same teacher's name appears at various places and I do not mind if that name appears as a visiting teacher but if it appears on the regular staff list. In fact on the lighter van and slightly on the sore side of the topic, some of the AICT reviewing teams which go from college to college and they actually pointed out that many colleges in the vicinity seem to have the same name there and on the lighter side I had a joke that since the AICT team typically goes to multiple places in that vicinity, ahead of them moves a truck and a bus, the truck carries equipment and books and the bus carries the faculty members. That is nauseating if that is true but that is a sad part of life, this point is correct. I will tell you, see it was my personal initiation that I told that if you put this request in the website and give login password and other things so that teachers themselves can register it so that our database will improve and increase, I told that we can do, it does not involve any class, then my presidents don't rub government on the wrong side and don't do that. I will tell you what I have initiated in the same thing, as some of you may know Dr. Mantha has recently joined the AICT, Prasamantha ex-Vijitayar joined as deputy chairman and he will probably be handling some of these things there. So my suggestion to him was that insist as a regulatory mechanism that every institution registered with AICT whether approved or is seeking approval to put on the central website A, a link to their own website and B, quite independently on the AICT website complete details of the courses that are offered by that college, the number of seats that are available since which year that is functional and the complete list of faculty members including permanent and visiting. Now this may take some time but he understands the reason for this request, exactly the same thing that we are discussing and this should happen very quickly. The mandatory disclosure is not being put transparently available and accessible to general public and I think in fact if somebody just raises an RTI inquiry and there could be serious problem but why should we have to do that, I mean this should happen automatically but I hope that it should happen, good point. But IST is not being permitted to do that. It is not being permitted. Wonderful. We, if you ask personally or in the general interest if you ask we can give you data there. Officially we cannot give because they said don't do this, otherwise I have. For IST and membership is there then can it be support for publishing a paper outside a country? Publishing paper in a journal depends upon the criteria given by the journal, it doesn't automatically say that okay you can do this because it depends upon that journal, I mean guidelines given by that journal. They will not say okay you are an IST member, you can publish now. And for conferences? You are talking about international journal, for national journal it depends upon whatever whether it is national or international it depends upon the guidelines given by the journal authorities. For conference and other things also if it is a national conference funded by IST you would be given preference and you need not pay the entire fee charges, will be concession for IST members. But the acceptance of any research paper whether it is in conference or in any journal has absolutely absolutely nothing to do with your affiliation. You can be a member, you need not be a member. Some journals or some conferences may say that in order to make a presentation you have to be a member. But the acceptance or otherwise of your paper will never have anything to do with your membership. It will only depend upon the quality of that paper and whether that paper meets that theme or not. Is there any financial support? The financial support is a separation. The financial support as he says if it is a national conference which is sponsored by IST then probably there could be some support. For members it is. And usually the support will often be in the form of you are not having to pay the registration charges for that conference. I don't know about the travel support. But then in IST handbook and this website we have given some 15-20 places where you can get travel grants. That would be helpful to you. You can approach directly that agency and get the travel fund. Even in AICT you have provision to get travel fund to attend any seminar. So it takes at least 3-4 months. Yes. More than that. See what happens you know in AICT what they will do? They will collect this travel grant application. If it is more than 50 or so they will call 2-3 experts then they will do. It is not that this conference is in the month of April you have to conduct in the month of March it is not like that. Of course you have to apply 4 months before the date of the conference. But they will conduct. But then things will take its own time in AICT because it is a government organization. See what is the difficulty I will tell you. One person like a faculty bureau, faculty development bureau will be given in charge for this one. He will be there today for 15 days. Then he will be transferred to another department. A quality improvement bureau. So that the person who is to be transferred or who got transferred will take his own time to do the work. It happens in government. I have a related question for the conferences. There is a lot of conferences that is coming up in India. But then it is very difficult to find out what the quality of the conferences is. Do you have any ranking mechanism or something to say how good the conferences are like we know how the international conferences are good or some ranking mechanism is there. It is a very nice question, an excellent question. Generally what we casually tell is meeting is for eating. And conference is a get together. But it is not so in all the cases. In my personal view is you cannot rank a conference saying that it is a number one conference and it is a number two conference. Because it varies. Because the theme varies from conference to conference. If it is the same conference we have a standard. See what we can do is even if you have an evaluation system you can see whether the conference is conducted properly, whether sessions went on in time. Number of questions we can ask. But what is the usefulness of the conference pertaining to the theme? No one can say because it differs. If you conduct the same conference on the same theme in different places in India say 10 conference on accreditation. Then we can rate out of the 10 which one is first which one is second. But conferences every day there are two conferences running around in the world. If you go to the net you can find out. Very difficult to. The reason is for example there are a lot of conferences which say international conference or national conference or something in India. And lot of faculty because of pressures from institutions want to publish but they don't want to travel abroad. So they go to these small conferences. But then later the management will say this is not a great conference. Because so it's very difficult to see if these are at least some level of recognition to say this is a good quality papers are coming out of this conference. Well madam I will tell you. If you are a beginner I mean I don't know about you. But if you are a beginner you must go to a small conference get see things how they are preparing, how they are presenting papers, what is the quality. If you take the proceedings you can find out the quality of the paper that is presented and printed or published. Unless you go to a conference how will you know that whether it is good conference or a bad conference. You must have experience to in attending conferences in publishing papers. Then you can yourself say okay this is a good conference. And based on the person who is going to conduct the conference based on number of people who are going to give lectures you can yourself judge. Say for example if he conducts a conference if I conduct one there will be difference. Because he is stalwart I am a puppet. So you can always say that his conference is a bigger one. I think he is being very modest but let me add to it because it is a very important point and I am glad you raised this because I think everybody would be concerned with this. See teachers are primarily concerned for two reasons. One if they have done some good work they would like it to be acknowledged at the better place. Second teacher's career often depends upon the evaluation of the research work that they publish. So this is important. And Professor Harir is absolutely right. There are conferences and conferences and conferences and there are journals and journals and journals. Firstly about the terminology we use in India. National and international. This is an extremely derogatory terminology and it comes out of the legacy of the British system because it implies that international conference or international journal is some way slightly better than national journal and national conference. The biggest nonsense. The fact of life is that some conferences are good and some conferences are bad and they happen both nationally and internationally. I know of an international journal we saw when we were evaluating some applicants is two papers in that international journal. Those were not the days of the web. So I was on the search committee I went to the library and found out that international journal had papers. The entire paper was one page paper in three columns out of which one, two-third of the first column was the paper and the remaining one-third of that column and the remaining two columns were the bio-datas with photographs of four authors. Now you can imagine the, of course one can say that one can write the most important things in life in just a short thing but then it has to be like something like ten commandments. And I will assure you it was nothing like that. Now this can happen. What we do in the IIT system in general is what I will share with you. Each department has a list of gradation of conferences and journals. These list is generally made based on the impact factor of the journal and conference and the impact factor we find out not only from the quality of papers that are published but also the citation. As you know citation is one index that for you. Not only how many papers you have published but how many of those papers are cited by others how many types. Exactly. That is the quality. In fact when I proudly say IIT Bombay is number one in computer science we did this citation index survey of the top ten Indian CS researchers. Indian meaning? Those who are in India they have many top Indian. Out of those ten amongst the faculty, not amongst the faculty, out of ten researchers as per that citation index, six work for IIT Bombay. I am not even a researcher. Forget including in that top ten list. But Professor Rana Dey was one. Krithi Ramamrutham reached the path. He is the top most researcher in the country. Shaman Chakravarti. Look at the web binding book that he published. The book was not published on the work which he did at Bhakle or at IBM Almadir. The work that he did in IIT Bombay is what produced that book. So these are some of the criteria that we use. Now from a college perspective, here is a practice that we follow which I would recommend that you should. The department makes a list of all these conferences and journals and categorizes them. A plus A, B plus B, C. These are the categorization based on the impact factor, based on the quality of papers published, based on the quality of the authors who go to that. Not only we encourage our research scholars and intake students to try and select the A plus category paper, but we also identify that if your work is let's say, it's not adding something new to the knowledge, it's a good implementation, a good incremental research, then we recommend, go to this B plus conference, get yourself exposed, see what other people are doing. In Indian journals, for example, take Sankhya, the statistical journal published, that is one of the top most journals in the world. Or in computer science, take the FSTTCS conferences or Sigma conferences that we have been doing. They are considered wherever re-freeing occurs, wherever strong re-freeing occurs. So some of the criteria is what is the percentage of acceptance? So if 100 papers are submitted and 15 are accepted, then it's a strong conflict. If 75 are submitted and 74 are accepted, you can see this is exactly how you measure quality of educational process. If you have an institution, take many training institutions, I had arguments with the very senior friends in the industry, I have said that if you admit everybody who applies and if you certify everybody who is admitted, how can you guarantee the quality? So the conferences and journals, the same thing will happen. As a matter of fact, I will go one step further. It is important that we conduct research conferences in our institutions where we put a strict requirement of quality. So what happens is, suppose I am organizing a conference in some place, now I suddenly find that there are not enough quality papers. I am worried, I have to conduct a conference, I have already announced a three-day conference, I have six parallel sessions, I need 25 papers. If only 27 have come, I will still know that come. Should I not have the courage to say, out of these 27, only three papers are good and I will inform all participants, the conference will run only for half-day. It's a chicken and egg story. If we are not interested and committed to improve our quality, that means a lot of self-introspection. So this is a larger problem. Sorry to take your time but my suggestion is, go back and make a list of conferences and journals in your own way. There is a public list available by the Australian University which we actually have adopted largely. Keep re-examining that every year because new journals come in, some old journals who were top quality, may not be any more top quality. And keep that list publicly available within your department to students and teachers. And ask every teacher, please try to send your paper to higher and higher level, but in a graded fashion as Prasad here. I think that will be the best. Sorry for digressing but it's a very important issue to a faculty. Sir, but outside the country we have that benchmarky, IEEE conferences are good. Nonsense. How many IEEE conferences that I can tell you are absolute nonsense. You see, by the way, even the best conferences and journals which are otherwise really best, can have an absolutely lousy paper sometimes. And sometimes a completely unknown conference can have one of the most brilliant papers. Please do not generalize. And one of the reasons why people send to international conferences is A, because of that unfortunate nomenclature, international. And if that paper gets accepted, people actually get an opportunity to travel. And then they will figure out some grants or something like that. So it's a dicey issue. I am not convinced what you say is true. Sir, but other people are convinced. No, no, that is not correct. Anyway, if you have such four papers in international IEEE conferences and you apply to IIT Bombay for a faculty position, the moment we see those names, and if those names are not respectable conferences, we won't touch that application with a 100 meter pole. Now, you have to decide what you want. You want your publications to be recognized by the peers who count or you want them to be counted in your bio data which is published somewhere, your choice. Absolutely. At the end of the day, you know what is the best evaluation? When I see myself in the mirror, can I see that figure in the eyes? Nobody can evaluate it better than me. And the second, have I done the best I could in whatever? Answer to that question, always no. So look for conferences which insist on conference paper reviewing, revision. So look at the, you will, many times you will find in the journal, first submitted this there, first revised this, second revised this. Now that means there is a rigorous process. So go for such places, you know, where things are. Myself Barthi from Somaya College of Engineering, assistant professor from the computer department. I am a life member of ISD chapter and from last nine years. We are not getting any material course media results telling that are available for the computer department. And we are not getting that. And what, any other procedure is there we are supposed to follow to get that IS journals? I told you, you will be getting only the newsletter free. Huh, newsletter free? Yes. You have to subscribe. Okay, okay. What we are supposed to do? Any procedures are there and that is given? Yes sir. You can go to the website, fill up the form, send that e-mail to us. You will get this journal. If you are not getting the newsletter, send a mail to me. Sir, newsletter we are getting. Thank you. In short, what you are getting is what is free. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just I wanted to know how to get those things, procedure for that. But I will forgive me for being a sarcastic observer. If I wanted to get a journal, then I would get it, no matter what. So if you haven't got it, that means the priority of getting it has not been very high in the minds of the institution. If the institution decides that it has to have that journal, why somebody will travel personally to Delhi, go sit with them, find out, carry the journal back. So, let me put it this way. Information is available at multiple places. And the website of any organization is probably the best place. Secondly, start sending e-mails whenever you get such things. For example, suppose you have problems. Actually, I was not knowing this many information and I am full for you to give so many information about ISC. Just as a life member and I am getting the journals and I am getting use of them. Thank you very much. Well, that is good. Very good. So, in fact, ISC Journal, CSI Journal, for example, let me ask you this question. Sir. You run a computer science department. Most of you do. How many students you have? Probably 60 to 120 every year. About 400, 500 students doing computer science in your department would have about 10 teachers. Yes, sir. Okay. Why all of them are not student members of the bodies like CSI or ISC? Every student pays a fees close to about 20,000 rupees per year or per semester or whatever it is. Okay. Yes, sir. Why is it that we don't feel to introduce our students or to, in fact, tell them that for their own professional career it is important? Yes, sir. How many fees per year for students from? 120 rupees. 120 rupees. Yeah, now. For four years. ISC, yeah, yeah. CSI also has a similar thing. Sir. CSI actually does so many activities. CSI chapters and so on. Why can't each college or two colleges in the vicinity have a CSI chapter? We have. And why can't every student be a student member? Yes. Why can't every teacher be a member? The membership fees is not very heavy. The chicken and egg there is. Yes. That is right. As you implied, what am I getting from IST? That's an implicit question in the mind. So similarly, what am I getting from CSI? That's an implicit question. So actually there is a larger answer to it. What you will get from IST will actually depend on what you continue. Because when you give, somebody else will get. When somebody else gives, you will get. So this is exactly the essence of this collaborative work. So I think we should now start asking questions. What have I done for this organization first? And then after two years, I have done so much now. What am I getting back? Perhaps that may be a better way of doing that. Sir, we have IST chapters. I mean, college student level chapter and student chapters and CSI chapter also. Oh, you have. Yes. But make the membership obligatory to everyone. Yes. We are making it compulsory. Thank you for that. Thank you. This will now spend about 10, 15 minutes deciding on the actual modus operandi for treating this mission as a part of this mission to have a formal arrangement with IST. So let me tell you our back end, as I just explained to you, our association with IST began through the TIFFAC project, where we wanted a formal feedback mechanism. That is the first time when Professor Hariran came and explained to us the IST workshops, which are approved along with some funding ordinance. And he mentioned to you just now that from 400 workshops, one-week workshops, he wants to take you to 1,000 workshops. These are actually subject-teacher combinations. So same subject, there may be 20 workshops. Another subject, there may be 30 workshops elsewhere. From a financial perspective, if I understand correctly, the funding that they give is 1 lakh rupee for 30 teachers. Now, I had made some inquiries about some people who had conducted IST workshops like that. Satish Devne from RAIT, there's somebody from RAIT here. He mentioned that. The practical problem is that 1 lakh rupees is often not adequate to cover all the costs, because people have to come and stay and things like that. But I believe IST permits organization to charge additional fees to the participant to cover these costs. Let me make very clear. See, AICT gives this 1 lakh rupees for one program, for one-week program. Initially, it used to give for one-week program some 90,000, two-week program some 1.25 lakhs, three weeks and four weeks. Now, they have stopped this 4, 3 and 2. They say go only for one-week program. And these coordinators also felt that it's very difficult to retain a teacher for more than 15 days or one month or so. They said one-week is very ideal. Now, this 90,000 which I told you was fixed in the year 1996 and it has not been revised. We have been sending application after application. And we have asked AICT to do only one question. You are giving 1.5 lakh rupees for a course which you are directly giving. 1.95. 1.95. And if it is through IST, it is only 90,000. Why there is one differentiation in the IST? Chairman said you have raised a good question. We are working on it and you will give it. So, this 90,000 is only the current one. It is under revision and you will get the same amount like what he said 1.9. Correspondingly, we can ask for 1.5. See, the major thing for this one is the boarding, large-wing expenses and as well as for the TADA. So, we are working and definitely we will give more money. Number two, he said that whether we can put some money, raise some funds. You can raise sponsorship from nearby industries. Ask them to give one lunch or dinner or whatever. You don't have to give any accounts for that. We need utilization certificate only for the amount which we give to you. You can get sponsorship for Filax and you can give them a good briefcase. You can ask them to come by air, whatever you want, you can do. We are not going to ask you why you have collected. Number three, you can even charge some fees. But as far as this IST program is concerned, it is not permitted. Fees should not be charged from the participants of IST sponsored program. If it is a self-financing, you can charge anything. Fees should not be charged for the IST program, sponsored programs. If it is a self-financing program, you can charge the fees. We will also conduct self-financing program. Yes? For that, what you have to do is if you are confident to get sponsorship from the industries, say 1 lakh or 2 lakhs, whatever it is, for 30 or 35 or 40, you can even charge fees for the participation. Then you have to give only 500 rupees for us for one full course as a processing fee and 150 rupees for each candidate, 150 rupees for each candidate, whether it is one week program or two weeks program or one month program, you have to pay 150 rupees towards administrative expenses. This is the commitment for self-financing course. You can even collect as much money as you like and spend. We are not going to ask any accounts from you. For the course which we say, okay, it is approved. Just to give application with 500 rupees DD, we will approve the course and you can use our logo for the certificate. Why we are more interested in saying that you can use our logo? If you have a certificate with the logo imprinted on it, then only it will be considered for a carrier promotion scheme. Is that clear? If the IST gives the funding, then you cannot charge the fees because the problem is that if you recall, you mentioned that AICT is giving 1.95 lakhs. 1.95 for two weeks for direct funding. If it is through ISTE, they give only 90,000 rupees. For two weeks? One week. For one week? For one week, if it is through ISTE, they give only 90,000 rupees for the program. And if they give... Directly they give for two weeks 1.95. Two weeks 1.95 and one week 90,000 is not too much difference, really. Okay. But one week program for 90,000 rupees, believe me, if I have to arrange for accommodation, of stay, of everything and I have to take care of the support system in my own institution. Take for example, the use of this seminar hall. The charges for this seminar hall are 5,000 rupees per half day. Now, if I have to engage this 10,000 rupees per day for seven days, I have to give IIT Bombay 70,000 rupees. Now, if I give IIT Bombay 7,000 rupees, then I will have to tell them no lunch or dinner will be served, only breakfast will be given. And you can travel by bus or by bike, but not by train. Correct. Now, that is not a realistic situation. So, one discussion that we need to have immediately is under what model we should adopt this ISTE thing. See, I am very keen to have that ISTE logo. As he correctly said, these thousand teachers who will come, they want to see a value for themselves also, apart from the professional encouragement, they would like to see that an ISTE certificate is what they receive at the end, because otherwise the level of commitment and involvement will be slightly less. In fact, it could be much less. You know the realistic. Suppose we adopt this model, because we are not receiving funding directly from either ISTE or from ISTE. We are receiving funding from the parent governing ministry, MHRD. Okay. MHRD is also giving this funding for a mission project of which conducting this program is only a part. That means as the project investigator, me and my colleagues here have the flexibility. Now, suppose we say that we will go by the ISTE norm. That is 1 lakh rupee per week, 90,000, whatever you are saying. For two weeks they say 1 lakh, 95,000. Suppose we go by the ISTE norm, which is slightly better, 1 lakh, 95,000 rupees for two weeks program, for two weeks engagement. The only thing we do is we make our workshop as four-week workshop. Why? As I told you, if you have read the theme paper, two weeks is the actual physical engagement when the teachers will come at your place and work. But for two more weeks, they are going to work at their respective places making contributions to the contents. These will have to be certified by the coordinators. Now, just as these certificates go to the participants, does the coordinator of a workshop also get a certificate or there is nothing like that? A coordinator, if you want, we can give from ISTE, from the president. But none of the coordinators have asked for any certificate. So, coordinators don't get any advantage towards their own career development by doing this Gowra Giri, is it? They will simply say that I have conducted this ISTE program and avoided it and that's all. But in case if they require any certificate, ISTE will give the certificate. I think that would be nice, isn't it? If the ISTE can give a certificate. Fine. In this case, my recommendation is that, because this is a novel scheme that we are coming up. We, as I mentioned to you in that theme paper also, we want to conduct a four-week program. As a matter of fact, the reason ISTE stops this three-week, four-week, two-week or the ISTE stops is more from a logistics point of view and funding point of view. Exactly. Is not the actual requirement point. If you ask me, the requirement is to engage faculty members for a longer time so that the effectiveness increases so much. But we have neither the funds nor we have the logistics arrangement. That is why we have withdrawn. Here is a proposal where we handle logistics and funding in a different way altogether. Okay. So let's say there is no cost to ISTE or no cost to ISTE. If we run it under self-funded thing, then for each candidate for a course of this four-week, we pay them 150 rupees from the funding which is available for their listing. And you want for 500 rupees per... Only one. For one course, 500 rupees. 500 rupees, one course. Good. So 1000 teachers, 500 rupees. The cheapest possible, what you can say, process that you can have. And 120 or whatever rupees is the standard thing. Now that is as far as the ISTE association formally is concerned. We will seek permission from them to conduct this self-financed program. It is not strictly self-financed. What we'll write is that this program is being partly funded from under a mission project under a measure. But as far as ISTE is concerned, it's a self-financed program. No funding is required. That will permit you to collect charges for the actual course, if any, which goes beyond whatever funding is made available to you from IIT. Now what I am suggesting is, because I had made a provision in my own budgeting for about 2 lakh rupees per candidate per remote center. But that budget is not... It assumes that there are 30 to 35 teachers who actually participate at each place. So what we can work out is, we can work out a minimum cost, which is the institutional cost. See after all, there will be facilities, the lab facility that you will be using there. There will be some teaching assistants that you will be using. You'll have to give them some honorarium. As coordinators, you are entitled for a decent honorarium. After all, you are working for 4 weeks. And he is not even giving a ISTE certificate to you, which you can use for career and... I have given a company's breakup of how to spend this 90,000. Oh, you have that? Yes, I have given to it. How to spend 90,000? General broad guidelines are given. So suppose I will circulate it as a printout. Just churn it over in your minds today evening. What are the costs at your own place? In your presentation, please also indicate for 5 minutes that part. So suppose a candidate has to come and stay. The way in which we are planning this is, at least in the larger cities, say Pune, for example, C.A.G.D. Institute or C.O.E.P., Pune, if I am not mistaken, has 50 colleges. Just like for even this program, people who are coming from Mumbai do not require accommodation. That clearly saves me money because the accommodation costs money. Okay. It saves me on dinner because people will go home and have dinner. It saves me on breakfast because they will have breakfast and come. The expenditure that I have to incur then, if I have such teachers at the remote center, is a good lunch, working lunch, and tea for two times. That cost is not too much. So I should be able to afford that cost within the funding that we can arrange like this. Sir, in our 90,000 in this thing, loading and lodging for each person at the rate of 125 rupees per day is a lot. Sir, in 125 rupees, I mean, I have heard this, the TA rates or something like that in the cities, you go to Delhi with 125 rupees a day, you can either live in Dharamchala and go hungry the whole day, or sleep on footpath and eat one time a day. Government of India. Government of India, see, we appreciate, and we are very grateful that the government of India is giving this. They have revised this TA, they have revised this TA, 1200 rupees per day. I see. But 250 rupees, they have revised this to 1200 rupees. 1200 rupees, sensible. But that has not reflected in the AICTA. Sir, they are settling. But if you will ask me, you will agree that this, in 125 rupees, you can give them a working lunch and tea for two times. That's the fact. That's all you can give. Now, here is my suggestion. Suppose there are outstation candidates who want to register at your place. Tell them that this much will be taken care of by the institute. But for your stay in my place and for the additional food, this will be the extra expenditure. You or your college should pay to my coordinating institution this much extra fees or charges. We will not call it fees. It's not a fees for participation. Participation is free. We are funding it from the funding that we are getting. Participation, the complete material, educational material, they will get a DVD exactly like what you will be carrying out so that they can go back and do that. All that is free. But if there is a truly extra cost, now this cost may vary from place to place. In a place like Delhi, the guest house accommodation may be 500 rupees a day. In a place like Nashik, it may be 150 rupees a day. College to college also it may vary. But do you think this is a workable proposition that we fund from the course the amount which IST ordinarily funds because that is what I have budgeted? Except that for four week engagement, we are saying 2 lakh rupees per candidate. Not per candidate. 2 lakh rupees for whatever, 30 teaching for four weeks. But what is that four weeks? Because two weeks they are not there at all. They are working at their own place. It's like what? Two weeks. Two weeks of physical engagement. They will be there with you for two weeks. Most probably many of them will be coming and going back. Coming in the morning and going back in the evening. Those who stay will pay additional charges. And those charges each institution can fix based on the costing in that particular place. The only legitimate expectation from both those teachers and us and probably from IST is that those charges should be charges. Meaning it should be cost not price. That is the institution should not attempt to make some extra money out of that. Whatever is the actual cost they should. Then this 2 lakh rupees which we give. Barring this 125 rupees per candidate per day that you keep for two weeks. That is the actual cost that you will incur. The rest of the money is available to you as the coordinator to be disbursed part given to the institution for hiring or whatever facilities you want. Rest of it given as honorarium to coordinators. Whichever way. I think we will go by the guidelines. Go back home, look at it and amongst yourselves you will discuss various possibilities. And the final day when we conclude and decide on the complete this thing we would like to get very great clarity on the finance. Because financing and funding is one aspect on which I have seen even great programs faltering. Unless we come out that there will be some additional expenditure or something. It is this pilot project which permits us to do that experimentation. Let's say we run this program then for the remaining subjects. Don't forget that we have to do for 15 subjects. And given the compulsions IT proliferation of about 50% students and teachers being from this. Not teachers but students being from this field. It is quite likely that we will have at least 3 or 4 more courses in the compulsions subsequent. So you and your colleagues in your own departments may be involved. But other colleagues will also be involved. So we will work out some tentative plan. But it will be acceptable sir that if we say that this program as far as IST is concerned is self-financed. Because we are not asking you or AICT for anything. We can work out sir. We can work out. We can say. General MOU we can sign. Correct. And we need not commit all this. Okay. We will work that out. Because I can see if I put myself into their shoes sir. I am a coordinator at Naseek or someplace or Angaba whatever. Now I have to run this program. I am committed to do this. But the teachers who come from various places they will say what are you doing for me? Oh Khana Khila Rae Nahi Khila Rae. My college administration will say you are using 40 computers for 2 weeks. Oh Mofatne nahi aata hai. Okay. There is a lab technician. There are 2 of my ME students who are going to help me as TAS. All the provision we have given there sir. But the amount may be, but then we have given provision for everybody who is helping taking Xerox, giving contingency expenses, giving them notes, taking copies and cost involved in taking Xerox copies. Everything is there. We can modify that. This is only a guideline. Okay. We can modify and increase or decrease whatever. Okay. Whichever way. See for example we will not permit all the, any participant to travel by second class AC. It is limited only to third AC. No airfare. Participants only limited to third AC. My friend from Angami came from Nagaland. Nagaland. Yeah I know. I would have reached here after the course has ended you know. There is no advantage. Similarly there is a colleague who could not get a ticket. So this flexibility of course there is a difference. In IIT I have a lot of flexibility. And I underwrite most of such expenditure through my own personal consultancy fund. So if the dean's office finds some rule number 15B under which this money cannot be paired, they redirect it to my consultancy fund for which I am the authority of payment. But this flexibility may not be available to everybody. Not all people are rich teachers like me. Sir this funds come from government of India. Even if you don't make any mistake in this, after five years this CAG audit will find out. No no no. We have the same thing. We don't audit. And we will follow that auditing norm correctly. Here the point is that we would not require people to travel at all. Correct. Because if they don't have to spend money on travel, that money is available to the coordinator. So I think the best way is to say that as far as IST and AICT is concerned there is no funding from them. So it is a self-financing course. But we will provide part funding from this scheme. And any additional costs which have to be incurred can be recovered. And there we can make some provisions. So let us first read the entire detail. And we shall discuss this. We will assign a 15-20 minutes slot. But we must get absolute clarity on how we are going to finance the larger program, otherwise the program will not work. And we are very glad to see that IST offers. You know that that logo is very important. In fact today only I got a logo from him for our certification. Now I understand that it is no value to you, but whatever. No, but this will be valuable, right? Because this is a one-week IST workshop which they are attending. Yes. It may be coordinator's workshop. I was thinking more like just as four-week engagement is there for teachers. Even for coordinators there is a four-week engagement. One week you are spending here. Then two weeks you will spend with them. Then after that they go back. They work for two weeks. When they submit everything to collate everything, to collect everything, to edit everything and then to send it back, you will require one week. This is not counting the extra work that all of us will have to do and keep doing even for the subject board. But roughly that is the plan. So overall sir, could we say that you generally approve this four-week notion? We approve. Yes. We happily approve because we are interested in teachers' training. Wonderful. And we have a service organization. Whatever IITB says, we save. So on this good note we end here. But we shall rationalize and see exactly how we can do that. And if legitimately we feel that there has to be some more funding or whatever it is, because it is not funded through a stringent standard procedure of IST or AICT, we can even have variables. For example, at some college there are only 15 teachers. At some other college there are 40 teachers. So what I would suggest is when you take this form and go back, work out on certain minimal costs which you have to incur, whether there are 10 students or 40 students. That is preparation work, the lab work, the support staff, et cetera, et cetera. And rest of it you work out on a per-person basis. So let's have two components. And we can individually, independently agree upon these two components. And what I can tell my Dean RND is that as far as this pilot is concerned, we will fund individual institutions in this manner. We will, based on the number of registered teachers in their place, we will fund them for the basic requirement for that one reading center plus so many participating teachers multiplied by this figure. Let's add one more thing. If you are interested in training teachers in the northeastern region, we have enough funds in AICT. Separately what we can do is you can conduct a program for northeastern region. There is no debt for funds. You can ask even 5 crores. People are ready to give. In fact, that's what I suggested that at his center, if he can get people from the northeastern region. You have trained him now. He will become the coordinator for northeastern region. He can collect 50 teachers or so. You can fly over there, give them inputs. For that entire funding will come from AICT. There is no problem. But then that has to be separately sent as a proposal for northeastern region. Five months ahead in triplicate, et cetera, et cetera. I am aware of all that. The problem with the government is they will give you 2 rupees and will give you 200 conditions. So that's okay. But that's life. But please also let us understand this. In spite of whatever lacuni that we find, it is the government and the government supported agencies which are doing maximum for the betterment of, let's have no doubts about it. There is no other private sector company or anything which is committed to do the kind of thing that these institutions are doing. One more thing I would like to add, Professor Parthik's comments. He has supported his center because of government. Government is for the people. And you say the teacher, this course is 5000 rupees. You go and attend. You will not be provided tea, lunch, dinner. You have to pay from your pocket and get yourself entrained and come. Nobody will go. Everything government takes care of. But the only thing is some problem as you rightly said, practical problem will be there. But there are good offices in government. You go and explain to them saying that this is not possible. A friend has come from Nagaland or they cannot do the same. Oh, no problem. But then one thing is you have to put it in the right way. Professor knows about it. That's all. We will work on this. So thank you so much. With this we close this session.