 Hi everybody, welcome to the second talk of tonight's forum, and let's talk about tree selection. The Emerald Ash Borer has killed millions of trees in North America, and it's getting closer and closer to North Dakota all the time. Most recently, it's been found in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Now, here to give us his latest recommendations about alternatives to ash trees is Dr. Todd West and the head of the woody plant improvement project. Todd, welcome to the forum. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. All right, so we're going to go at a pretty good pace tonight, so let's get going. So one nice thing about North Dakota is that we had a lot of elm-lined streets, which is absolutely beautiful. That was the norm, but no longer because obviously we had Dutch Elm disease that came in fungus that attacked the native elms and has killed quite a few of them. So as humans, what do we do? We replant monocultures and replant with just a single type of tree. So we came through and planted with green ash. Green ash is a nice tree. It is very adaptable. Easy to grow in the nursery, so then it was well available, and so then we planted quite a bit of it. As Tom just mentioned, we have EAB right on our doorstep. So here's a picture. These are from Ohio, and the left is what happens when it does come in because EAB attacks stressed and non-stressed trees, and so here they are just taking every single tree down. Top right is a before picture. EAB has come in, and you can see the change in the canopy. So we're really in for a big shock when we start losing our ash here in North Dakota, so we really do need to diversify. So here is a map. This is actually out of date now because it has moved closer to us, but it's right on our doorstep on three sides. We have it in North and Canada, Minnesota, and South Dakota, so the question always is not so much or the statement is not when and if it's when, and it's going to come. So what's the next ash replacement? Autumn blaze, right? Because everybody wants an autumn blaze for human maple, so we've seen a lot of these maples. Here in Bismarck's a shot of Japanese tree lilac, again a nice plant that is really well adapted and makes a great boulevard tree, especially for utility, as a utility friendly, but again these monocultures. So do we ever learn? No, because we're stupid humans. And so what is the ash replacement? It's not a single tree, it's diversity. I get the question all the time, what tree should I plant? And it comes down to diversity. No more monoculture planting. And so there's this kind of rule that people are looking at is the diversity planting guidelines, 20, 10, 5, 20% of one family, no more than, and 10% of one genus, no more than, and then no more than 5% of a species. So if we look at family, betelaceae, the birch family, together within, again this is for a city guide, not for a homeowner because you're not going to have 20% within your own planting. But within a community, we're looking at 20%, no more than 20% of the family. And then if you look at the genera, alnus, betelaceae, carpinus, astralia, all of those are genera within the birch family. And then no more than 5% of a species if we look at say paper birch. And so is this followed? Not really. I mean we're really focusing more in the communities on that 5% and not really the 20%. So we're going to be talking more about that 20% and obviously talking about the species specifically. But unfortunately, the biggest enemy that we have are nurseries. Nurseries do not grow diversity. They don't, and they probably never will because they grow what sells. So how do we accomplish this 20, 10, 5? And so we're going to look at some of the families. We're going to talk family, so elm family. And so we have a lot of great elms that are super adaptable for our soil types and pH. They do really well. Here you can see a nice elm in the foreground. And we have maples in the back. So if they're not yellow maples, they're just chlorotic maples, not well adapted for our soils. So we do have to give an elm disclosure or disclaimer is that really you do need to make sure they get pruned. They need good structural pruning for the first 10 to 15 years to get proper branch structure. Otherwise you're going to have very poorly branched tree if you skip that. One thing I like to tell people is that when we look at that 20, 10, 5 rule, save your elms for the really poor spots. Don't stick them into the most ideal situations because they are very adaptable. But don't be afraid to use elms, but realize you will have to prune. So there is a lot of, well, the big issue with American elms we briefly talked about was the fact of Dutch elm disease. And so there are a lot of new DED resistant elm cultivars that have been selected for this, one being an NDSU release, Prairie Expedition American Elm. And this is one of the hardiest of the American Elm cultivars, but it also, again, is going to need a lot of pruning. Princeton American Elm also does very well. And these are all ones that have been trialed through the state, through our program, and ones that we're recommending. And we're going to talk about the elm recommendation a little bit here in a little moment, but this is just a shot from a bulletin that Doctors Lesnick put together. Japanese Elm. Now this is non-native, but it's very well adapted. It has that high DED resistance because where the fungus came from is native to the Asiatic region. And so these trees co-evolved with it. So that's where a library resistance comes from with the breeding, but then the straight Japanese Elm does really well. So one of them that's been released is Discovery Japanese Elm, again, does very well. It's moderate growth rate, fall color is a yellow, which is typical also the Americans as well. And here it's shown in Bismarck doing really well. Again, unfortunately, a nice little monoculture boulevard planting, not having any diversity, but you can see the leaf quality is quite high. Freedom Japanese Elm also again does very well, but it's pretty big tree. So you want to make sure it has some nice open space. Then we have a new tree that's coming out. This is an NDSU release. It's a straight Japanese as well, smaller in stature, more rounded, and it will be available next year. This is called Northern Empress. And what's great about it is it doesn't have the typical yellow fall color that a Japanese Elm has. It has a burgundy fall color. So again, here's just a screenshot of the fully recommended, partially recommended and not recommended cultivars. And then we get into the hybrid Elms. And so these are hybrids between Asian species. And the hybrids, a lot of them were tried to develop, they had bigger leaves. They look more American like, but they have that resistance, the DED resistance. So we have Siberian, Japanese and the Wilson Elm. All were hybridized together in various different ways. So Cathedral Elm is one that's fairly popular. It is showing now that there is some susceptibility to DED. But it does well, but it needs a lot of structural pruning. New Horizon Elm as well. Has performed well. You can see the picture on the right. Really nice form. Accolade Elm. Again, we're hitting a lot of Elms right now, but we're going to be talking about diversity. You're going, wow, he's not very diverse in this so far. But I don't want you to be afraid of Elms. That's the key message here. Nice rapid grower. That's what's great about Elms. Elms have a really fast growth rate when they're young, but yet they still develop a very good structure. Whenever I teach my class, we learn about trees. We talk about fast growing. Usually means weak, wooded, short lived. And Elms are kind of the exception or one of the exceptions. Triumph Elm. Again, nice dark green glossy foliage. Just really high quality. Very tolerant to urban conditions. And again, here's our full recommended, partially recommended and not recommended list of the hybrid Elms. And all of this can be found with the NDSU Extension publication. It's F1893. That was put out with Drs. Lesnick, Greg Morgensen, Jim Walla, and myself. Great publication. Get online. Just Google that. You'll be able to get right to it. And all this information that I just talked about with Elms is there. The Beech family, which also contains the oak. So we could say this is also the oak family because Beech is not hardy split bur oak. It's our only native oak. It's a white oak group. Zone three. Very tolerant to our conditions. One of the stigmas with oak is that people say, oh, they grow too slow. That's okay. Oaks are a wonderful tree. There's been quite a few selections now of macrocarpa, which is our bur oak. We have urban pinnacle. It's a narrower, more upright form, better suited for a boulevard type situation or a tighter space like in a backyard. Just fits into those smaller spaces so much nicer than a standard bur oak. Cobblestone oak has been selected for a more corky bark. So it has a little bit more ornamental feature to it. Has a kind of traditional size of a bur oak. So you're not going to gain any size aspect there, but nice, nice bark. Another two other types of the upright urban pinnacle. And then the top gun. Top gun was selected out of Canada. It's supposed to be even more narrow than urban pinnacle. So you kind of get a look there. Crimson spire oak, one of my favorites. This is a hybrid oak and there's some issues with non-native oak pollen and germ plasm. The genetics getting polluted into our native species, but we have the English and the white oak. But again, a columnar form 45 by 15 gets a beautiful red fall color. And so here's just kind of showing the shift where you get from that green to a kind of a russet to a nice red. And they hold onto their leaves pretty much all season long, all the way through the winter. So it's a nice deciduous screen because it will drop them later. Prairie stature oak is an oak out of NDSU. The cultivars Midwest and let's cut off there. But again, nice fall color because it has that alpha, the white oak in it. Regal prince oak, again, more narrow. There's been a lot big focus on these narrow oaks. 45 by 18 foot is doing fairly well. Kindred spirit oak, 30 by six. So again, very narrow. This is a bi-color. So swamp white oak by Rover in English. The white oak by itself or swamp white oak has tendency to be clerotic. This one seems to be doing okay. A Mongolian oak is one that is not used as much as it should, but it's really hard to find in the nursery trade. And again, that goes back to the idea where nurseries are not helping us out because they don't grow diversity. Beacon swamp white oak. This is a case where it's just a swamp white, not recommended, because it doesn't do well. It gets clerotic. So it's one to avoid. Birch family, we're all pretty familiar with birch, I think. It's one family and different genera that are fairly common for us here in the north. The alder, Manchurian alder, alnus heresuda. This is an NDSU release. It's pretty much the only heresuda cultivar out there, but does very well of drought conditions. Does well on a boulevard and it has the cone-like structures that persist into winter. So nice little ornamental feature. Northern Tribute River Birch. This one's now available in the nursery trade. Hardy Zone 4 for sure. Maybe a 3B, but definitely a solid Zone 4. PH Tolerant, which River Birch is not really known for. American Hophorn Beam, Australia, Virginia. This is one that is getting to be more favored. There's more cultivars coming out and we'll see more in the future. Not salt tolerant, but very adaptable to PH and soil. Also drought tolerance. You've got to be careful where you do put it. It is native. One of the cultivars, Autumn Treasure. It's a more narrow upright. I'm a big fan of Catalpa. So Northern Catalpa. It's a U.S. native 55 foot by 35 foot. Maybe a little smaller depending on where you are. Tolerant to drought and air pollution. It does also can handle wet and fits into our seasonal flooding talk as well. It can handle some seasonal flooding, but can have some issues if it has real persistent water problems. Heartland Catalpa is a cultivar that's doing well. Hemp family, Celtus. This is one that a lot of city foresters and a lot of people have. It's not the most exciting plant, but it's one that's very adaptable. So Hackberry, Zone 3 native, very cold, hearty, tolerant of wind, and a lot of different conditions. So just a really, really nice tough tree. There is a cultivar pretty Sentinel Hackberry, very narrow, no more than 12 foot wide. I'm really kind of concerned with the branch angles of how well it's going to do in the long run. We're still kind of evaluating that. But again, a nice tree to fit into a really tight space. One of the sightly problems that they have with Hackberry is the nipple gall. There's really not, you can do about it, and there's no reason to do much about it because it doesn't hurt the tree in any way. It just cause an unsightly growth in the leaf. And prairie Sentinel gets it as well. Fabaceae, the legume pea, your bean family, American yellowwood, Zone 4. This is one that's kind of on that edge. We're doing some work with that. There is a pink flowered form. It is urban tolerant. Honey locust. This is one that's used a lot. And in parts of the country is overused. I was out east for quite a while, and this is one that was definitely overused. And you're seeing that more and more now it's becoming, again, overused. We need to diversify from it. NDSU has released Northern Acclaim. That's the heartiest of them all. But there's a lot of different cultivars out there. And most of them are the males that are the cultivars. So they're going to be seedless or nearly seedless. And so skyline is very common. But again, we want to avoid monoculture. So monoculture is within a species, within a genera, but also within cultivars because these are very narrow genetic lines. And so if you're going to use a honey locust, try to be diverse even within the cultivars. So there's skyline, there's Halca, there's Shademaster, Imperial, Northern Acclaim, Streetkeeper, Sunburst. And there's a lot of cultivars. They all have slightly different shapes to them as well. So it's all about diversity. Kentucky Coffee Tree is really creeping up now too. 40 by 35. Unfortunately, as a young tree, it's not the nicest looking. So it's kind of the ugly duckling. And then it turns into a kind of a beautiful swan later on. There's quite a few cultivars of it now. Espresso is probably the most common. But there's other, Stately Manor, Prairie Titan, Skinny Latte, Decaf, you know, obviously they all have that coffee theme to them. This is a side note, has nothing to do with what we're talking tonight. But this is what actually would eat the fruit on the coffee tree. It was a large sloth that was native here, but then was wiped out. Thank goodness. Anormachia. Native is Zone 3. It's a smaller tree, but 25 by 25. So it's a rounded crown, tolerant to urban conditions. It fixes its own nitrogen. Could be a good candidate for a street tree, especially for utility friendly. Beautiful panicles of flowers. They attract a lot of pollinators. And then the bark is this kind of peeling cherry kind of bark, quite ornamental. So again, there's going to be more cultivars that you're going to be seeing of these. But again, we want to diversify. So don't get stuck on just one cultivar, but Magnificent is one of the newer ones. Ginkgo says Zone 3 to 8. And I would say that Zone 3 is really, really stretching it. Zone 4 is sometimes really stretching it. We have a hard time growing ginkgo here on the NDSU campus and even out at our farm at Absaraka. So you really got to have kind of that sweet spot for it here in the Northern climate where I'm from in Madison. They're all over on the Boulevard in a Zone 5. So it really is cultivar dependent on what you can get away with them, but they're really tolerant of a lot of different conditions. Beautiful fall color. All the leaves seem to fall at once. So if you enjoy raking at one time of the year, get a ginkgo. Autumn gold, Festigiatta are two of the more common cultivars. Autumn gold is one we've had on campus and it's just struggled. So be careful with those hardiness guidelines and recommendations. You just sometimes have to try something out for yourself. Magnolia. Again, NDSU release. But any of the star magnolias do fairly well. This is one of those. It's a hybrid, so it's related to the stalata, the star magnolias, but does very well. It will flower later in the spring so you don't have the damaging from the spring frost and completely bud-hardy. Malvaceae, the Malo family has Artilia. Artilia is very common. So these are pretty common trees that we see on boulevards. They've been used for quite a long time. Hardy Zone 3 cultivar is important for use based on its form. They're not extremely air pollution tolerant, the American Linden. Also, all the Linden have problems with Japanese beetles, which now are showing to be able to overwinter here in North Dakota. So again, we're always fighting something. Here's just a picture of the pyramidal form, boulevard. There's also American Sentry, much better choices for a boulevard than straight species that you would have like out of the lake home or in a park. Little Leaf Linden, Tillia Cordata, not native, much more pollution tolerant than our American version. So very urban friendly, but again, pest Japanese beetles can be a huge, huge issue. Out East, you'd see Tillia Cordata completely defoliated by Japanese beetles. Greenspire is a great cultivar. Little Leaf, very common. You see this planted everywhere. There's a weeping form, golden cascade. Some people don't like that weeping form. They think that their plant looks a little sick, but I'm a big fan of weepers and I like the look of this plant. Harvest Gold, Mongolian Linden. It's not a true Mongolian Linden. It is a hybrid, but it does have, again, more diverse genetics to it. What I like about it is that the bark is different. It has kind of this exfoliating, kind of peeling bark and again, can have problems with Japanese beetles. Oleaceae, same family as Fraxness. Japanese tree lilacs ring a reticulata. Again, this is one that's gaining a lot of favor. Very adaptable tree, salt and salt spray tolerance. There is a cultivar called Snowdance that is sterile. It doesn't produce any of the seed pods, and so that's kind of nice. Also, flowers at a very early age. On the right, you can see Ivory Silk. That's really common. Then Ivory Pillars becoming more common. It's a narrower form, maybe a better choice even for a boulevard. Again, NDSU has one coming out. This is not utility friendly, but a nice boulevard tree, 35 foot by 15 foot. Hopefully, it will be available in the next three to five years. Rose family. We've got Prairie Jam flowering pear. Again, NDSU release. It's a really nice pear. Cereensis. Pear in the nursery world and the landscaping world is a naughty word because of their invasiveness. As soon as you mention pear, people stop listening to you. What's nice about you, Cereensis, is that it will produce fruit if there's another pear that's nearby, but the fruit's quite large. It is edible. You could eat it. It's not the tastiest, but birds don't fly away with it, which is really nice, which is typical of our calorie pear, which we really can't grow here, but it's also invasive in the rest of the U.S., and so that's where it's being banned. Here, the fruit's pretty large. We don't have the invasive problem as much as what you see with calorie. Ming, Amur, Choke Cherry, Prunus, Mackye, Ming. Again, nice hearty. Amur, Choke Cherry. It's not native, but has a really nice bloom, and you get a really nice bark to it as well. This is also resistant to black knot and frost cracking that we see with our native Choke Cherry. Beautiful bark. Again, the flowers, they're not that exciting, but the bark is amazing. Spring snow flowering crab apple. I bring this one up not as a recommendation, but as one you should avoid. It's one that is so common in all the nurseries, and it's one that we shouldn't be planting, but everybody loves it because it's sterile. Very tolerant of urban air pollution. This is just a thing from J. Frank Schmidt that shows the disease resistance. With spring snow at the bottom, it has poor scab resistance. It's fair with fire blight, and cedar apple rust is good. Mildew is excellent. Well, that's great, but let's use some other things such as like Mare-Lee, which has good, good, and excellent in there. There's another one, Pink Princess, two down from there. That's excellent in all the categories, but they're not fruitless. The key with any of the crabs is that you want to make sure that they have clinging fruit, then they don't create the mess. This is Mare-Lee, 24 by 10 foot. Beautiful white pink bloom. Just looks great. Ritesi, Amercork tree, native to China, pest-free, nice bark. It's a wider tree. His majesty is a cultivar. Here's a boulevard planting. In the foreground is a hybrid elm. The middle is freeman maple. In the back is the felidendron, which is the cork tree. You can see how peach adaptable that the elms and the cork tree are compared to our freeman maple. Kind of ending here with the maples. Here you can see this is an aerial view. I think it's in Bismarck. All the yellow trees are maples. The freeman maples are the sugar maples or straight red maple, not well adapted for our soils. Here's a red maple on the left, freeman maple again on the right, clorotic. They're going to have issues. You're going to have to treat them. Why fight that fight? Here's a different maple, Acer Mybi, which is State Street Mybi's maple, very urban tolerant, again not native, but has really nice foliage during the growing season and has some interesting bark. Ohio Buckeye is also a great choice too. Again, Japanese beetles are a big problem, so that can be an issue if we do see more Japanese beetles here. But with that, we want happy trees and I'm ready for some questions. Okay, Todd, we invite everybody's questions. Let's get them going here. Here's a general question. Can you recommend a tree for a sandy site? For a sandy site? Good. Well, it depends where they're at. For shade? Sure. Hackberry. You put a hackberry anywhere. Let's talk about, has anybody propagated Northern Advanced Plain Trees yet? Okay. We were seeing some disease issues on Northern Advanced, so we kind of pulled the rains back on it, but it seemed to grow out of it. We were seeing, you know, anthracnose is a big problem with sycamores and plain trees, but it wasn't showing those same symptoms and it seems to be doing okay. So we actually have two nurseries now that are evaluating it, so hopefully in the near future we'll be ready to go again. So I know people who develop trees call to our speak on a different level as far as time. We talk maybe like in five years. We do talk on a different time because trees are evaluated for upwards to 20 to 25 years, then they go to the nursery, then they evaluate them, how they do in the production system, then they have to build up numbers, then they're finally available. So yeah, we're looking at 10 years. Okay. How about you recommend fall fiesta maple? Fall fiesta maple actually does very well. You know, there are fremen maples. Autumn blaze is just one of those hit and miss fremen's, but fire fall actually has done very well for us and don't see really too much chlorosis, but again, it just depends on your soil type. You mentioned Japanese beetle. Can you briefly talk about its status in North Dakota? From what I understand in certain locations, Bismarck Fargo, I don't know if it's Grand Forks as well. And we have nurseries. Anywhere there was nurseries is where I was first introduced, but it is showing that it has the capability of overwintering. Again, waiting to see what happens with our colder temps that we have this winter to see if it affects the population at all. What price do you recommend for chlorotic trees? Actually, I don't do really treating of that and that's something that I should be able to say, but there's lots of information available online. Go to your local garden center. Oh, is there a publication? I was unaware of that. Okay, so you need to go to the NDSU Extension website. There's Iron Chlorosis in Trees. There's a great publication. Highly recommended. You mentioned a new birch cultivar being released in 2019. What was it? Northern River Birch? There is. It's Northern Tribute River Birch, and so it's available this year. It's a selection that was actually found out of Dickinson, North Dakota. And it does very well on a compacted dry soil, but it's also been shown to be pH tolerant. And so River Birch is iffy in our area for hardiness to begin with, but then we have chlorotic issues typically with River Birch, and this has been shown to do very well. A bucking recommend a tree for a boulevard that's five to six feet wide. Five to six feet wide, looking at that prairie sentinel hackberry. Any of the crab apples that are really narrow, even some of those oaks, Crimson Spire, any of those really narrow, narrow selections. Because the more narrow that selection is, the less pruning that's going to need to be done. As Joe said earlier, anytime you do something in the tree, whether you're tapping it for syrup or you're pruning it, you're creating a wound. So if we can get a narrow selection in a narrow spot, you're much better off. This person has a two-acre lot. Do you consider hybrid willow to be a good border tree? Well, depends on how long you plan to live there. And really what you want to do, because if you want something fast to establish, it's good to plant some of the willows and the box elders and poplars. There's nothing wrong with that, but realize that they are not going to be long-lived. And you're going to need to transition something out. But if you're in your 70s, 80s, 90s, and I'm not going to be age discriminatory, but it may not matter. Maybe you just don't plan on living there for more than 10 to 15 years. Exactly. And then it's somebody else's problem when they buy the property. They won't know you better until you already bought the property. And that happens a lot. I get people come to me a lot and they're like, oh, I've got these trees that are starting to die. Kind of your earlier question about the poplar with the tops dying out. And that's fairly typical. And it's like, well, what can I do? Well, you hire an arborist to have them removed. Todd, this person wants to know where they can find prairie gem flowering pear, but maybe you can just broaden it out to like, in general, like all these cultivars you talked about, can you get some guidance on how to find these cultivars? So the best place to look is to your local garden center. And all of the releases like that we have from NDSU, but others as well is that they're grown by major nurseries out in Oregon, typically, but they ship out our way. So if you talk to your local garden center, if they don't have it, they usually can order it or at least get it ready for next year's order if they don't have it. Okay. How about mentioned Ruth Magnolia, can you bring that to a tree You can, you know, I say it's a shrub. It's a tree form or it can be a shrub, you know, because it gets up to 20 to 25 foot tall. So you could prune it as a multi-stem tree, a single stem tree, or just leave it as a large shrub. And that's available this year. It's going to get about 20 to 25 foot wide. So it's a big, it's a big Magnolia, but it's beautiful. Well, okay. Any update on how the lace bark pine is doing in North Dakota? Lace bark pine? I mean, I know we're evaluating it. We're growing some, but that's at a very early, early, early stage. How about Brent has a silver maple that has a fungal disease on its leaves. What can be done? Not a whole lot. It's not really going to hurt. I wonder which fungus is that? It's galls, bladder galls. Probably galls. So again, it's kind of like our hackberry, you know, it looks unsightly, but it's not really going to hurt the tree. Yeah, I recommend, you know, like, we're in it for an age now, we're, we've got so, it's so easy to communicate with one another. Just take a digital photo at the first sign of the fungus or whatever disorder is and send it, let's say to Todd or Joe or your county extension agent or contact your local county police there and don't send it to me. Don't send it to Todd, to Arisha in Stuttsman County, and they'll be right there to give you the advice. About, well, what do you think about using a metacloprid on trees for insect pest control? Well, all the issues that we have with any type of insecticide when you're dealing with systemic, you're treating the problem, but you're also affecting everything else that visits that tree. This person has a problem with, we've got a lot of different things going on here. If you've got a problem with cedar apple rust, can you use cedar bark as a mulch? Of course. Yeah, that shouldn't affect anything. Don't worry about it. You're not going to get cedar apple rust from your cedar mulch. No. Okay, just a couple more. Tell me, what is blackknot? Blackknot is a fungus that affects the choke cherries and it's a very unsightly growth that you'll see on the stems and so you have to have a very sterile sanitary pruning system to be able to keep it, you know, ahead of it. Hard thing is, your neighbor isn't, so if you have it, you know, it's just a constant battle and so it's just something that it's just better to find a different tree and go with something else. From the naturalist perspective, what's going to happen to all the green ash in the wild of North Dakota? When that EAB comes? Well, they're just as susceptible as what's on the boulevards. Now, what they're seeing out east is that there are escapees and I'm not giving anybody hope. It was the same with Dutch Elm disease, you know, we had escapees and they're finding some out east that escaped EAB, but they're just as likely to be killed as any other tree. You know, what type of species will replace it? In the native forest, buckthorn. That's right. Okay, here we go. Grafting Japanese maples onto hardier rootstock. Would that make a hardier Japanese maple? Well, you know, there are different hardness levels when it comes to roots and stems and, you know, there is maybe a little potential for that, but I don't think that's really that likely. You know, and in the nursery trade, it would never be done because Korean rootstocks, which would be hardier, but they're even marginal hardy in a zone four. And so if you do add that in, but they grow so much slower, so that's why you don't see Korean maples grafted because Korean maple rootstock, they don't grow them. They grow too slow. They're not commercially viable. Okay. What do you think about aspens? Would you recommend that for a landscape? Again, depends on what type, because now we're seeing a lot of foliar diseases with the aspens as well. Did chestnuts grow here? It'd be great if they did. In other words, no. Well, no. Okay. How about this quaking aspen like an ashtree? Yes, it's a tree. It's got leaves. But you already made your comment about aspens, so we can move on. Yeah. I mean, it all comes down right plant, right place. Right. You know, every plant has its spot. And then, you know, I mentioned that 2010 five rule, but one thing I didn't mention, especially for a homeowner, is the look around rule. If your neighbor has a tree, such as like autumn blaze, don't get an autumn blaze. Get something else that's not closely related. So the look around rule, if you're standing right where that tree is going to be planted, look around and plant something you cannot see. There's a question again. Where can we get this Magnolia tree? Again, just go to your local garden centers. It is being distributed by Jay Frank Schmidt. And most of the big garden centers through North Dakota buy from Jay Frank Schmidt. And also nursery, your local nursery. Yes, nursery garden centers. Right. Let's make that clear. So just you have to ask the owner to get it for you. Exactly. And yeah, when I say a garden center, I'm not talking the box stores. You know, garden center slash nursery. It's the independent owner who's dealing with these growers. Those are the ones to ask those are the ones to support. And I'm not anti bite big box store, but yes, I am. Okay, we just got a couple minutes. Has the big leaf maple been evaluated for our climate? The big leaf maple? What is that? Is that a Norway maple? It's called the big maple. It's a Western. Yeah, we've done some, but it's not, it's not well adapted. Not well adapted. Are there any trees you haven't mentioned that you're considering it Absoraka? Oh my goodness. We only have 25 minutes. I mean, this was just a short kind of overview list, but you know, there's a lot of different things, you know, like Korean mountain ash. You know, if I was going to do a mountain ash, I'd do Korean mountain ash. You know, you don't want to do American, you want to do the European, but the Korean, it does so much better. You know, I'm a big fan now, like this Amber Mac, yeah, you know, it's a great tree, but you know, we did talk about that. But yeah, the list goes on and on. You just need to come out to our field day. Yeah, I think Todd covered a lot of trees here. You know what, I think we're just going to shut it down right there. Todd, thank you. All right, thank you. It was outstanding. And we're going to take a quick five minute break and then talk about hydrangeas.