 I'm going to call a major board that's 9 a.m. They're going to do a roll call for these. Yeah, Tom will be part of the department. Josh will be in charge. Here. We'll have that here. Jeremy, there. Go ourselves. Here. And Lisa. Here. Glenn, you hear us okay, right? Oh, we are muted. No. We just did roll call, but we've just realized we were muted. Can you hear us okay now? Oh, I'm on 100. That's the best we got. All right. That's good. Item number two, approval of minutes from our October 10, 2023 meeting. We'll have a motion. Second. I have a motion to approve in a second. Minutes. Any discussion on this? All right. Let's vote. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Opposed? The abstentions. All right. Motion passes. Number three. Public invited to be heard. Anybody from the public? Take that as no. All right. Number four, constitutional updates. A, operations retreat draft agenda. All right. I'm going to read on this one. So we are planning on holding an operations retreat on Thursday, this Thursday. We kind of between the main groups that are here, plus the HCB, the voucher team, there are really, as we get very settled in with LHA and how we're, how we're going to operate from going forward rather than working backwards and fixing old things. We know that there are needs that we have that we cannot yet afford in terms of staffing, but we are working on getting there. One of the items that really is crosses all of the groups, property operations, finance, voucher, tying to compliance is kind of things in that asset management realm where we've got special projects that don't really fit with anyone in particular. We all have to chip in, which means a ton of coordination. And then also we're just getting absolutely slammed with compliance because a number of things coming out of COVID, all of the agencies are monitoring, they're coming back to monitor after taking hiatus. And because we have now, the city has been involved with LHA for a couple of years, they want to see what we've done. So we have so many monitoring inspections all the time. And so we've been really working as a team to figure out how to make sure nothing falls to the cracks when we have a lot of hands in the pot. And so both with planning out our needs for future staffing, which one is the board did agree to budget for an assistant director position that kind of be on the operations side and help tie all the pieces together. So that is we're writing that down description now. But in the meantime, we do need to, we want to make sure all those teams are running together on any issue and making sure nothing falls to the cracks. So that's where this operations retreat was born out of. And so all those groups have been coming together on Thursday and we just wanted to give you all the opportunity to see what we are planning to talk about and give us any advice or suggestions for what we could include. It really was the point really is to travel and solve together with groups that may not see each other all the time. And make sure that everyone's on the same page with processes that we put in the place in the last two years. Some of it's new, just really make sure we are on solid ground and then bring in that operations role and really help tie the group on top and have everybody solid with what they're doing. So the draft agenda is in your packet. The first item is we're going to roll out community management manual that this team has been working on for a very long time. We don't have the draft here today. It's in final editing with our admin staff right now and also it's huge. But Lisa, do you want to kind of give a little bit of a brief introduction to what we want to do with that? How we want to use it? Why we want to use it as our take off? As you said, just our manual so it's going to be basically our protocol so each manager has the same stuff going forward, same timeline, same kind of policies, procedures, how to treat certain situations. But right now I think for the last few years as we kind of all knew all coming into this crazy LHA world kind of just moved by the scene of our hands and created stuff as we played policies as we went and so this is inviting all of one document, future staff will have it, current staff, so everybody's on the same page. Can you intro to what you want to go over with the property budget management? So the property, so what we've kind of been hearing from property managers is that they are not doing what they normally do with other entities as being property managers which is like actually being part of the budget process, being part of, we just implemented the invoices they are also getting invoices so they get to see the costs that are coming from those and see if they have the maintenance system and stuff like that. So what I want to propose is like having one too, because I do want to bring others to the process and how we work that through and where each property is started with a part store and part store in the property and bring the maintenance and all of that and just kind of workshop like what they've done before and what they'd like to see. Decisions with guidance but just have a little bit more ownership, take ownership of it. Yeah part of that just signal historically was the budgets were so out of control when we took over that we had to take complete control of them and really stabilize them and get them set up in a way and get some experience under our belt and how it was really working and now we're starting to lose up in that world because the first budget we got everything was budgeted in the red and people didn't know where they were spending what they were spending it was an endless experience taking over everything. Yeah, I mean Yes, we've shown them how to pull their budgets how to charge an item and now that part of the problem is they didn't really know because it would make us to keep going. They need some kind of way to purchase it so they would never see what was coming out of it. We also have a nice tool in this system where they can put a human assignment so we can start to see like who was the refrigerator in place and the student, you know, that type of thing which we didn't have that as a nice feature before it was kind of just in the notes if you have to search Yeah, that's what I'm yarning. Property managers have up to $250 that they get for it so they'll see it and always don't prevent anything from under $250 we'll go to the digital property manager so there's a process and it'll actually strengthen our separation of genes with our auditors so we can show them who I'll approve at what stage. How do you guys handle performance assessments changing the property managers to an annual performance assessment semi-annual? You'll see. That's our next thing on our agenda. I don't know. A copy of Dev's example can we put that in here? If you want to send it I kind of just pull it up on here when we get to that then lunch. Then coming back we're going to go over some operations so we have LHA and Ward goals that have been set and we report on annually a much more big picture because we want to let the teams that all work in the day to day to be able to set some goals for themselves too under the umbrella of the overall board goals so we're going to try to do a session there to drive some ideas and again take an ownership and pride in your work. Tracy's going to go over some compliance stuff she's going to do a review of the fine things and things that we've seen that all of these monitors have been looking for over the past year kind of do a summary or recap and prepare for the future when you see the trends coming and then also just reiterate the processes and make sure we talk about ideas and processes because this is where every single group is involved in it's very easy for something to qualify because we don't have a slalom process which everybody knows when they're supposed to do the prep the performance modeling so Lisa how do you think we'll see multiple reports over the year that we've been working to get better this is my fourth one this is the top one maintenance has been I think coming into the LHA coming into the year there's no what's taking so long on a maintenance turn the loss of geretta the longer it took the less money we made we've really been pushing that with them and as you can see in quarter one the term days have gotten a little bit better sorry it's 91 days was the average for quarter one for a unit turn which should be 10 days so and I did not have that unit so this is supposed to be so I could not really count those so we're difficult to move out whole quarters and all that so we're trying to get this to improve into 2024 but this is just the day for this past year of the current phase so Deb police works in our HCI office at the city and she's working on the city side of things but she came from and she was involved in without her program and the property side as well and she brought this with her this is something that she used to help the teams take ownership of the work see their own performance and use it for in their case they use it for incentive as well which is something that we would consider already to do so but it is really something that everyone can see so everyone's on the same page everyone can see how the properties are performing and it's it's just insight motivation to perform so creating the baseline for 2023 where we're ending the year at they'll have these pieces where we said each employee's performance will show the new year as well have them look at this and then say what are your goals for the new year these are current days you did pretty good here from the days just seeing what else per month and then how is it all up top so I have another meeting today we're going to set more of the goals with compliance more goals with maintenance we're going to treat these as our compliance we have a few more matrices and measurements to work out but I feel this I learned a lot from each course this week and each course is about two hours and I was just like wow so many information I was learning by pulling different reports and actually counting the days or maintenance work orders or research how many past year research which may not be possible by a day or two but there's so much room for improvement and I think it's going to be a huge oh eye-opener for just maintenance and managers for each new year they know that we're watching this and we'll work closely how often are you this will be us dated monthly and is that going to form but managers will have new reports to send monthly, they've been doing weekly reports for the last year but we're going to have now a monthly report where they'll pull this data and submit it and we'll be already reporting so okay so they've gotten a taste of it but we're going to really dive in and go over the purpose and what we're hoping to see it's actually new forms of the maintenance reports to access that's going to be reflected on this where they add each turns of their reporting to managers we just implemented two weeks ago that maintenance is being daily with managers because they were both kind of in their own little world and I'm like oh you guys got a touch base daily and so that's going to help I can get through this where the data in yardage is going to be even more updated as the maintenance is going to be I've done this before I've done this before please make sure it's updated today then somebody else is checking in on the managers so separate and apart from this we're running a module out for the framework maintenance system so a few years ago the city went away from the annual performance reviews because I would sit in my office and see at the end of the year these lights and whenever I come in annual review and it wasn't accomplishing anything because you're not dealing with issues or rewarding so we we shipped it as a city six years ago, seven years ago it's more of an on-going communication and organization now our HR system is moving and converting we're bringing the new system in play for next year and what that's going to do is real time when we have conversations or an issue and it just starts both good and bad and it just starts aggregating and so that and they're now automatically can send it to so if I write something about Molly since it's with Molly Molly has to acknowledge that she read it and she doesn't have to agree with it Molly can write her comments in and then it just starts capturing so that then it is a real time where it uses to deal with things but good and bad much earlier in the process this will deal with that you send that feedback assuming you have conversations with them before they get a random email about something just make a sharing with them I think that's great because when I started at the county I remember my first performance review going in and being like shocked because apparently I've been doing something well for nine months and I'm like why didn't you say something five months ago so this is awesome I love that real time and we do, we've had conversations with L staff I've got monthly meetings with all of my direct reports, Lisa does it all the time but this will be more quantitative shows what you got can I help us keep things from falling through the cracks reasonable accommodations incidents, grievances they'll get an email from a resident but it never gets to the process they'll have a new report and they'll track that as well and even if they don't have all the documents needed for the reasonable accommodation or they're just made aware of an incident at least it's going to be on that tracking log and you can keep the follow-up through and I'm made aware so I don't get a blind call from a resident to be like well if you look into that I'll have some of the details already up front So going back to the monthly meetings then are you is the standard practice to record the conversation you know point the conversation whenever it gets into the report and then you guys agree on it so it kind of across the city it varies by work group what I do is we have monthly conversations about either struggles or things that we need to address or just this is our time together to go over things that isn't waiting so sometimes I do do an annual goals at the beginning and then kind of a recap at the end of what you accomplished and what to work on next year so that's where currently it's kind of recorded but a lot of the monthly are really more informal unless it is a more critical issue yeah so we kind of operate on this somewhere they say they are or they're supposed to be at some point the managers the managers they are running off of their meeting daily so that's what we can say well I didn't know about that work order I didn't know about that business I didn't know about that business they're all signing off on the agenda they're purely designed where each work group can build it so like with my folks I tell you I have to tell you and so mine is much different so while you actually there is another document this is what we're going to hash out for today for like file audits so what's the file file maybe one or two things official missing the wrong calculation the other idea we're still going to kind of work out but we kind of already circled our measurements with a zero to five range so that's your title so we hate to talk about things like file audits when people can't clean it so I will audit my own files the files I had my hands on will do those and I will probably do a course level for the other manager and then if I have a question about that it will be a collaborative measurement I'll be in the school that we already recorded this too and that's part of our questions we're hashing out the information don't give me that I do want to just stress that the messaging on this is not we're watching you we're watching you but it is more take this as your you are in control of what you can accomplish in a day and take ownership and be motivated and you want things to change or improve then show us this is nice because I think a lot of times staff staff here oh you're doing everything right or you're a stellar employee and they're like what am I doing right like there's no benchmark there's no nothing to aim for say what do I need to accomplish to get a raise, get a promotion it's nice to have this it's really hard and you're like what do I need to do to get a promotion just do great it's like well what am I doing the biggest thing for my staff bringing this report on is they all want more money in their budgets and this is going to help them measure it but what's going on is like the time that you can turn down the out aggressively leasing the AR balances the gross rent potential not being that gross rent what we can do to get into there and so I think this is going to be the measurement and as we go into 2025 we'll be able to see where we can restart and increase that this has gone down and this is all going to do an extra 10,000 dollars in our budgets and this is all going to tie into resident engagement and so we're going to go hearing the property managers like well why can't we do this the residents want to do why can't we now know we can or can and here's why and then they can answer them instead of letting them find out for you and then taking them funds to get back to them and actually she's shown them how to access their budgets and see real time data they can see where these are from the resident funds and other funds like well why haven't we done this while we're waiting a month and we're going to see if they if they want to do for their their education as soon as they do if they want to do for their for their education as soon as they do if they want to do for their for their personal personal program that's just recently undergone an update but they'll let you it's a you get a up to amount all the time so like if we had made this person that wanted to go to the AC certified and or sometimes you get into where someone would definitely say I'm not getting ready to see certification and then like there's departments to go or there's just something that really needs and if it is sometimes we'll have an institution reimbursed to department training so so is there a maximum time that person needs to work after this or they have to find a level where she can reimbursed and now it's just years yeah so like I get I think the most is $1,500 a year of course one other thing I wanted to ask about and I know it won't happen for this but for future stuff is I tried to do a really awesome case study about where it's for housing and it was trauma and car training for car management staff are you there she's done a different what we talked about earlier in the chair Simone Simone consulting is the one that put on this session so they consulted on Zinnia because she was just saying it's beneficial training for any employee who ever comes in contact with any of us then because it's not just the residents living in PSH projects that have trauma we all have trauma and so it just makes people a little bit more empathetic and understanding when do you need to be aggressive about the policy and can you be a little softer to add I was looking to check on that about three months ago it was really an all day intensive about trauma for providing on the form of residents and employees how to make sure I think these retreats are better when they're not just like one year so maybe that's something you consider bringing someone in so we have a city saw that so we this was actually part of our cultural work and so we have people that are specialized trainers in PSH and so we do citywide offices of which the housing authority can't see it, sometimes we can't think of the installation we bring in a lot of guest speakers who come in what was the guy saying that he was trying to trying to out who is out of Chicago who specializes in interactions with the catalyst and people of urban support housing and he did a training and talked about any competition in the installation to accountability so we do those on a regular basis when we have a standover with people who are still online inside and part of the responsibility is going to be to have you done this and you can think of this and then sometimes the mandate is like the anti-Semitism work that we've been doing because of things that people don't work on during the slide presence we actually mandated that the LHA staff attended that and city staff that was on so we have a pretty robust training training program it's like for example, I'm getting ready next year to come in and do one pretty engaging in the city's cultural attributes also attaching a few other things to that where it's mandatory for everyone and I believe that all of those trainings were training sessions for staff members to try to reflect on what their standards would have been so there is a lot of kind of evidence of what my expectations are so that we can have a great start I think that's important that we of us remember what the staffing was like when we first joined in 2020 there wasn't a lot of there were some shady characters working at LHA doing some shady things and this has helped people make sure that everybody is bested in their mission all of LHA except for accounting less than optional for accounting we're doing mental health first thing and together a purple day on top you guys might need that for each other well so we do peer support I don't know if you've heard of peer support but it started in police many many years ago it was one of the first cities to have peer support so it's pretty robust and then we expanded to organizational peer support so anytime we have an issue or frankly anything people have peers throughout the organization and then those individuals are trained and work under a license of a psychologist and they can work with me and go okay Erica you might want to re-think about getting into more formal training programs about that significant events we actually will bring the team in and actively engage with them not personally they got the mail and it was not a choice we brought peer support in with the psychologists and others around everyone and what's happening and so if I'm talking to the Apple support staff they so one thing that we did is make some adjustments so now all the individual meetings folks are reporting a big and then they was reporting as we said so that we're reducing that span of control because the span is a little too wide and that because it's hard to manage and so now with the maintenance side we're all coming into a big circle and that's why I'm volunteering to play as peer development and sustainability improvements and we did complete all of the assignments under so I should go back first HUD and LHA came into a voluntary compliance agreement this means have found deficiencies or following cut rules and specifically targeting on ADA compliance so LHA team and when the city came on after led by Kathy and Karen at the time they took the lead on going through it was a massive agreement of all of the items that LHA was required even though it's voluntary but required to modify to meet HUD requirements so all of the deliverables required as part of that agreement were completed between 2019 and 2022 the last thing that we submitted at the end of 2022 was our physical accessibility survey of every property showing any ADA deficiency and what needs to be done to correct it and the timeline for correction you've got five years actually seven years to correct it we plan on correcting things much less than seven years but we did align that all out that was the last homework item to complete the BCA it feels like that's the close out piece of the BCA because you have to complete those items over seven years it's never closed it's just that it's not you're not under the the eagle eye while you're completing those items so I wanted to share is that a question Glen? Place a tracking system so this is one example this is hearthstone thank you this is just an example of what one property's ADA compliance improvements list look like it says what the you fast reference the HUD reference for that actual level of ADA compliance what needs to be done and then we say when it will be done and we put in our year in our schedules so this for example this is parking lot and exterior to common areas and then the specific U-class units that are accessible units on each property so this is just an example so Hearthstone it's a pretty good size list that building was built in 2011 and so U-class has changed since then as well and we're keeping up with that so this is just one example of all the nine properties of what we need to do in the next five years so in 2023 we have been working diligently to complete as much as we can to make a big dent the LHA applied to the city for CDBG funds and were awarded some funds to do some of that work we're trying to maximize larger sources for this because the most costly work really was converting units into sensory units for people with vision or hearing impairments and parking lot or concrete asphalt, trip hazards that type of thing a lot of the other things in units moving mirrors and toilet roll holders that we've got our biggest staff scheduled to do that over time internally but I kind of wanted to give an idea of what we completed in 2023 and what we're going to be reporting by the end of the year so here's just an example of the effort that it took and all of the funding sources that our city our city partnership sorry I'm trying to talk and drive at the same time is really beneficial for this is what this team has been tracking for some of our more costly improvements with funding sources for every single property so we spent $25,000 completing sensory units at every property there may be sensory units in some of the properties but we could not verify based on the records that we had and our history and inspections so we just covered all the bases that was $25,000 which is a CDG open grant we used $53,000 on doing concrete work we had four properties the last one these are all complete as of this week the city is coming in with $64,000 of ARPA funding to finish our ADA concrete work because the concrete was very expensive and took a lot of work to bid and the last one that work is ongoing right now we should wrap up on Monday and then all of our concrete work is done we've got parking signs these are small things but we're trying to just use up every dollar of grant funds to fill the need we came in and had to do new asphalt at Hearthstone and Lodge and we had to do a very various funding sources to cover this with the budgets that we had we did a regular CDG grant we came in with the CV the COVID funds for the seal because we had to get the seal the strike being done it was a very highly coordinated effort and then down here these are not ADA issues but these are other priorities so the cameras project we're in the process of ordering the cameras themselves the install will happen in 2024 and the playground at Aspen Meadows neighborhood has been replaced in this company so we're prepping as soon as we get that last concrete project done this week we're going to show a slideshow to the board so I will share that with you once we have it but here's our just to show you the effort this is over $300,000 worth of ADA work from four different funding sources trying to piece it all together like a puzzle so that's what we've been working on in 2023 to really show HUD that we are taking this seriously and getting the big ticket items taking care of as much as we can but at the same time we submitted that physical accessibility report in December 2022 in September or October maybe October this year they finally reviewed it so there was actually some missing there was an exhibit to the old VCA 2019 that had some additional items that one added on to the physical accessibility report so our ADA consultant is coming out here week of November 27 staying in a hotel and hitting all of our properties to mark off the new items that have wanted to see which I'll tell a story about in a moment and verify that all the improvements we've done in 2022 were done to standard so we report to HUD so the example of things that HUD had on their exhibit that we did not but our ADA compliance who has approved him as our qualified inspector the drinking fountain here at the sweets is it in the lobby? they're supposed to have I'm going to make up the number but it's something like 27 inches of a clearance underneath for a wheelchair we have 26 and 3 quarter inches for that quarter inch we would have to move plumbing and redo that so it's stuff like that it is very clear that in 2018 HUD was coming down hard and when we had a conversation with them to verify what are we doing exactly what they wanted we asked is there any construction allowance for like a quarter inch or half inch is there any sort of flexibility on that and they said yes and so we're going to put in for example that specific one and request the variance for that so they're seeing the progress and being more flexible with us now because moving the plumbing for a quarter inch is just interesting so anyways it's still ongoing but the good news is they are seeing the progress they're seeing the effort and they are responding but that's the update so we got back to you guys to make any sort of guidance or is there some sort of guidance that we're aware of and also as an energy is aware of about how to prioritize about just certain projects or does it come down to the funding the funding sources and how to like piece it together so there's no one or two things like this is going to be done in 2024 they didn't leave it up to us to decide that and we decided that the central units were critical because that was something that was across all the companies and then we decided to move it the concrete was going to be incredibly hard and it has to be incredibly hard to budget ourselves and so we needed to act right right so I just want to say that the article on our show where the poll we need the poll is gone right that's not a new poll was that just for like water yeah just drainage over time for the last yeah we had some design issues that were embedded so when we first took over Spring Creek was 6 years old and they had some fundamental design issues and probably coming in and it was already already in the concrete and so we had to that was what it was yeah quality of construction was that our big issue on this on policy um I had this on my list for Eric and I figured it out before I told you all one of the things we did is we created a strategic integration first within the organization so that's really our data analytics folks and they are working so in this budget we created a private management office and so they're bringing a team of working training to do organization but we're also in the process of converting to Microsoft project so we had any number department choosing different project management software and so we're consolidating into projects so Eric wanted Eric to go into that training so that she can take all these spreadsheets and dump them into projects because then our strategic integration office used power behind to then create the dashboards that we can use so that you know anyone of us can click on the screen and see where everything is sitting and it will work to get behind so that we don't miss that one so I have a few dashboards built for me so I can see every capital problem that we have in the city where are we going to spend where are we going to timing if there's a ditch or a problem and it's going to continue to automate to the point where a significant problem is it's going to alert certain levels based on what's happening so really integrating power behind this is a big thing for all of us and even the advisory board business being set up to where the advisory or this is the only advisory board I want to deal with but the advisory board and the council they're going to have a high level of action and we'll be able to begin with details but definitely having something more prominent to see what's going on because those are some other skills to have let's move on to number five development and project updates do we have to go over this one? that's for um okay okay development updates um village place now village on main cruising to closing we are anticipated close to December 6 in order to do that we are frankly ahead of schedule on most of our items Katie left everything in great shape she didn't have her baby a couple weeks ago so she's um it's like I don't know can we do something maybe like a midwife postpartum like that overnight yeah seriously um so we're trying to leave her alone so I do not know how things are going but um so the critical path items remaining are our building permit which we are on track to get ahead of schedule but we're not we'll see but um that we should have that in December 1st of the latest and then we have to sell the CPWD building 615 main before closing because we need to get the order of recording and the easements that they need for access and parking and um a bunch of things so we're got we have those easements drafted and being circulated around a bunch of attorneys and we should still be able to that's the last item left to get the CPWD WD building sold so that is targeted for about the by November 30th and then turn around and close on Hiloji on December 6th so the last thing to finalize our construction contract is uh rate on testing the investor has to redo some rate on testing which we did yesterday so we're just seeing if that if we need to install any mitigation system or not and then our construction contract can get finalized and we're cruising along um we meet with the residents on Friday to do the big relocation here's the whole plan meeting and so I invite everybody to come if you'd like to hear um it's on Friday at 3 30 and that will kick off that for for residents they will not be moving out and the construction will start until January 16th um so they got a little bit of after the holidays relocation team that we hired it's wonderful senior services will be there to help as they just we just threw it with us so we're moving in for uh ascent to over crossing we're here we are at November 14th we are really hoping to hear on a chaffa award or not but hopefully yes uh very soon it's supposed to be in November so we'll notify everybody as soon as we know that um in the meantime we're continuing design at an appropriate pace we're not rushing design to spend a bunch of money before we have the award but we know we're doing this project it's just do we get the award now or do we try again so pushing forward there um including finding funding for the early chaffa education center so the city has come in with the ARPA funding that we got it's post coded funding that money sits in a bank well since in our accounts and it's an interest bearing account and interest has been earned on the ARPA funds that we've had um sitting waiting to be suspended and that that money is now available for award and use so uh we propose to city council to use some of that to help on the easy about $500,000 worth and so that is um it's committed we're still working with the Colorado health foundation we did get an invitation to apply which um that it sounds like a pretty short list compared to the level that they usually consider which is hopeful we're working with the Longmont community foundation they do want to assist but we are trying to sort out if the financial mechanisms that a light project requires would fit with what they're trying to do um but they are interested they've talked about $750,000 we just need to see if we can do an instrument that would work for them and for the project um and then we have early cause funding in um an application as well and if you're about that in December so we're really hopeful that maybe by the end of December no you can see it out there apparently we're hoping to go with framing potentially this week which is going to be really exciting um coordination items that we need to work through well it's a parking lot you're going to be able to serve this as well yeah so they've done there is new concrete out there now where they laid the utility lines I notice that that's pretty great but there's going to be other work to do but we're not going to do it until the construction is over so we don't tear it up um and we have to budget for that or apply for a grant for that as well so that will be since it will be constructing through re-orders we are still working with recovery cafe we there's there's some concern about if they build it on this property there will be they're having a hard time getting financing to figure out how to finance a ground lease investors of this property are okay with the ground lease but they would not coordinate to another mortgage and so there's there's some financing tools that we need to kind of sort through and in the meantime they're thinking about backup plans too but either way whatever happens if it's not a building on site we would be bringing in a satellite office here where they could set up and provide services here on site so we're still working through that it's very complicated it's much easier to do this type of thing in the beginning of the deal rather than after so that's still important so we're trying to get from CPWD first and various projects but we're getting at least we're making sure that concrete work gets done so that we are handing over a eventually a building that serves appropriately in their clientele which are often disabled veterans and so we're working on that and we've been shifting unit assignments at Briarwood to come up with some unrestricted units meaning they don't have TOH funds on them or um thank you project based voucher on them so that we have more flexibility to do a preference for veterans so we're internally doing the switch on that side and then we want to talk to them about what is the model, how we do this we could start bringing veterans into Briarwood and then in the property conveys they just stick around we're trying to sort out how that would be an expert checkup yeah part of it is they're having they're getting at least a partial cost increase so they're really kind of still putting this whole file with using the board and project and for that we're really really trying to find a lender based on where interest rates are today and what they can do in financing so we're talking to them they really want to finish that tired to figure out the process and say that we can still use the team to work that out ideally they have a little concern about who would put veterans in and they don't want to do it properly we'll still properly manage it but it's easier to get veterans in because they're probably your clients anyway and it helps with the family so we'll get back to them it was installed in 2021 and disfailing and so we have submitted insurance claims to Instruction and Architects well we identified the issue while it was under warranty but the product was all discontinued Palace was ready to just go and redo it but then when we had our insurance adjuster go out and do a review there are both spec issues so that's the architect's responsibility and install issues and so what we're planning on doing is going to be the most cost effective and prevent any issues in the future in the common areas of the carpet tiles the residents they want that anyway it will be a quicker option and it will be better for those long hallways and so but we would still do new vinyl in kitchens and hallways and baths no relocation though we do not know that information yet but we don't expect to I mean if they could probably lay it's just a kitchen, hallway and bathroom they could probably lay that during business hours over a day or two so they do have on the first floor so that would be a little bit more it's an effort if we replaced with the light flooring even with Palace providing labor at cost which they offer to do it's $500,000 not including relocation so how is that affecting the relationship with Palace? our relationship with Palace is still good Kerry fell in the project manager she's wonderful to work with and she said we will fix this the relationship with EJ is better that's a scary thing it's a scary thing for a small architecture firm to have that where you have to put that on your resume when you go for other jobs so that's a scary thing in terms of the business but that's why insurance is there we don't have a source to pay for it it's our only choice well I'm part of it it's just to be frank all I brought this to me at the end of the day I didn't care about British I didn't care about the product maybe it's the business of development I mean the manufacturer that is a root cause as well where your force can't handle an office chair and you say for light residential use this is an apartment building there so it's there is so anyways we're moving forward we really really need another product that's one of the number six items for input for business owners is the manager is this one of the things that you ever had no this is something we wanted to do I'm going to let Lisa take over but this is something we wanted to do because we now have community managers living on site and we wanted to make sure that everything was fair and equitable and we had established standards and all on the same page not just between those living in the units but other LHA employees that may not have they've perceived that they don't have access to that so yeah so this is our breadth graph we just got this from the attorney it's Friday afternoon I'm already making my edit on here as well she said we do have managers living on site this will help us minimize employed we're trying to just make the whole process easier that they're not entitled to the unit just because they're a manager there will be other documents coming we are adding responsibilities to managers who live on site that's not going to just be part of their compensation but with living there they have additional duties part of those include ADA still removal so when we start getting this still falling and the cloud can't make it there they can't respond to ADA accesses we'd be writing checks making sure all of our exterior lighting are working at night we don't have any on site at night responding to emergencies including health and safety items welfare checks emergency lockouts like I've responded to where a child has locked the parents out of the house and I don't want them to wait on me there's a 45 minutes with the toddler so I'll go do that so things like that we're going to require this afternoon the agreement there will be additional agreements so we'll bring those back as we get those but this is our first step in getting this occupied agreement what do we have now do we have any current managers who are on site currently some of the time we have the background checks on all the additional household members staff has gone through background checks we've got to be employed with the city and us but for our spouses, children and anybody who's over 18 in the unit have gone through background checks and these are not subject to no light they've all been brought in by lenders and investors so we followed the standard lease and procedures same as other residents but this is really to manage on the employee side where we want to see expectations if this could be viewed as a fringe benefit from somebody that doesn't live on a unit and they want to know what are they getting for this that I'm not so we're going to make sure it's clear expectations and paradise sorry for the security deposit so in paragraph 8 it says there's not going to be one I'm just confused but are you saying like there normally is or is that yes okay but I'm going to work with you for now so I'm just going to set up a pod inspection if there is a need that we can charge my mom next time see that I also just want to ask about paragraph 11 or pod 11 so it almost seems like at what the arbitration clause we don't just see it as a bunch but that's not the direction this is going it's just saying to a you know a competent court and holder county was there a reason do you know that the lawyer wanted to know that way or you guys wanted to know basically say we want this to go to a court of original jurisdiction having to judge these issues as opposed to like having to arbitration based on the attorney who does up his fight or using something similar in court this would be the best and easiest way for elitiation to receive are we typically going to stay away from arbitration? right and is it standard to just say that we just want like a bench trial basically because he did create this as well based on his experience with other housing authorities in Colorado that have similar policies if they're waiving their right to a trial we'll do a jury trial that he's going to judge so yeah and then just a tiny typo venue like it's where somebody was so just I would suggest saving up that in the court of holder county oh sorry I knew that paragraph 11 it's like venue is long long so actually there could be circumstances so say I had a somebody who calls like this in the property let's bring there a 656 and they qualify for the housing they have a change in circumstances maybe they're not leaving on bad terms they're retiring and so they would be eligible to stay in the unit we can work with GAFA investors and just change that employee unit and let them remain house okay so they have to vacate just because they need terminating for that if they qualify so they either have to qualify as family or in the city correct and I'm sure you have a really good explanation for this one 10 of the 12 are working the work exactly the same is there a reason for that is there a first draft from our attorney I don't get that one you can find something else you can add it in later but is the unit that is designated as a manager unit it depends it depends on the property so like the heart stone and the suites have designated manager's units that will always be manager's units and never available to the general public fall river aspen senior and village place all have kind of a floating employee unit that could be rented to the general public if it was occupied by management or it could be an employee unit and it could go to a different unit based on the household as well so the ability for a former employee to qualify is to stay in a unit if they were living in a specific designated manager unit that would only be open to them to stay in another unit was available correct so they don't just get to stay in that unit depending on the property so we think that reference is not okay we reserve the right so it's flexible and so depending if they went to the property's criteria we would raise for them as well and not move the property and then I guess the people that are allowed to also occupy the unit number 5 they're not required to sign this as well well this is just what they avoid but they will send the other lease documents the house house rules crime-free intent of anything like that they will all be subject to sign what if we have an issue with one of these other individuals that occupy the unit as we see anything terminating at least that's covered in their lease agreement since it's not a contract with the employee okay I would say number 8 employees are not required to occupy by the non-monetary obligation of such rules for the community, obviously employee and household contract 7 basically you can open the option for the LHA you gotta get it out or is it like you guys actually have to tick off furniture and fixtures if you have an elephant in there okay this is the board in November 30th and we can wrap it all up by this Friday employee for the crazy allowing any unauthorized occupants to result in LHA terminating this license on my agreement and the result of termination of your lease as your first draft hopefully November 30th but we want this and the other policy documents that we should show the board that they've seen it before for other purposes so they can reference it specifically to how to protect this household contract because this is that license agreement but there are things that we've talked about that aren't necessarily in this like the pets and the things that we have gone over let's chat on what to include before whether we make another we're trying to get it on any open-ended questions out there from number 7 resident quality of life we're on it I can see that you do expect a drop coming in November we've had a couple of residents have it on so to decrease in that through the last few months we haven't had that but we've only had one in one since September which was a low testing amount the other ones are all in some houses of renovation that means we're constructed so both of those done by the end of the year quality installation continued testing so it's still working yes we have two we have one of this building and one is spring creek and we actually as part of my update here but yes we are monitoring those and we have one right out here in the lobby you can look at it when you leave top left corner the only time we're seeing anything at all is switching the battery which then it goes back to basically bottom left 5 which is nothing more about in the scheme of things so yes we're still looking at those and we need an M1 so we'll see they're in town right? yes they're here as long as you want just a brief update after that of the neighborhood I have three units down from bed there's two residents are actually moving in this week so I'm excited about that as a matter of senior I'm actually up to six acres right now part of the difficulty there is the pouring I have quite a few units with picked up floors and everything so the investor did come out last week for her annual inspection and she understood the difficulty so if we don't have a quick resolution she's kind of thinking maybe trying to run though everybody else is pretty much moving through their weight list our weight list is our girl and we've got about 100 people her weight list with the exception of acid medicine here because they are 50% in a higher amline a brief update on the bed contamination 10 units down hopefully most of those will be dropping off here shortly once here 7-3-1-2 that was stood down for over a year that was the one that was met and then they fully ripped it up the contractor closed off the window during the deep freeze and we had pipes first in it then it became another insurance claim on top of it they've already got drywall in they're working on tapetry, painting and painting now B2 that was the one that was at the neighborhood where we were at out of insurance money in 2022 that we partnered with half patents with their contractor so now we have the upward drywall taking and letting all going on so those should be completed by the end of this month and then we'll start piecing it really together through LHA staff for most of the other items C-1 and A-6 over at the neighborhood were like in combination they didn't have to work out anything except for one bathroom each unit so our district has walked a little bit had to go ahead and report on those here this week Village Plays that one is hopefully getting rebuilt next week we signed the contract we found that everything cleared out the contractor was only supposed to work out the drywall in the bathroom and the kitchen and pick up the cabinets and it's got in the whole unit that's possible they're putting it all back okay, I was going to say prices just included in the project they need to pay for this their painting rebuilt the bedroom and the living room and the dining room and then so we worked with our adjuster to add those costs separated of what they're paying for and what is being done to the insurance company so they're sitting here with the insurance money it will be kind of a clean slate so go get it textured flooded and everything and leave a clean slate for I think that we already planned to do with the project in the room which is painting and trim and we're going to do all that so they're just going to drywall and texture we just have less demos too and instead of filing an insurance we're just going to do it um, well that would be a budget hit to the project which was not our responsibility so we wanted them to make good on their estate but it did just stop at the point where we would then pick up and we would we didn't want them to try to it's the contractor's insurance and so they're rebuilding it to the point of where we would store it and now we're going fuller we weren't being wasteful we figured out the line to stop where we were having them put something in and we were just going to rip it out yes that's the biggest part is getting them to document what they were taking care of but what we needed them to do was just working out with the insurance and everything I put in pictures of my property on page like they're very boring so we had a lot of they had a full non-profit arm and they reached out to us wanting to do a lot of they had money for craft events chocolate pasting stuff like that nutrition stuff so they started with craft events at some of our properties and they'll be doing one property every other week going forward through 2024 um we brought snow removal in-house managers and I are declaring ADA acquisition and we got our own snow file first snow storm went really good residents were out there cheering me on about their windows and stuff so it was quite quite a different change to what we're used to with the snow tweets call for services remain low the band of dreamers started a food pantry here she started doing a lot of more events that's on site with her kids and stuff so they did a pajamas and pancakes event pumpkin decorating they got their military option to get her to snow some of it's still up over on the counter a lot of our properties and military appreciation events for November and like I said food donation area where we're getting surplus from other properties and organizations so that there's residents here at the streets get a supply of food we used to get farmers market but now that the farmers market is kind of ending for the year and they're not doing those food donations past the senior elder share began doing food drops twice a month there and the member will actually have free to supplement food for residents there and it's stuff that they can use when they're getting brown hammered earth gallons of milk eggs sausage you name it it's stuff that residents can actually make a meal out of two of my employees have become volunteers with elder share so they go and they report to elder share what the residents are requesting so that they're not just getting food in between like beans and nabogs or beans residents really didn't use and so our mindset would be able to report to I'm saying that this wasn't that they can use as a meal so that we can get more even like the canned spaghetti and pastas or different dishes be stewed stewed stuff like that that they already made meal or multiple items that they can make into a meal so that's really helped three of our properties increase that now we're working to get our stove and lodge at the same level at the other two properties okay I said RBC was out last week the investor for assets here and they had no findings all the files were gray only for the supporting and renting those units ask them that neighborhood the playground was installed third picture in the back shows our new playground it is used a lot and I didn't know I was wondering about that about eight nine o'clock at night daily so the reason we redid that is um it was unsafe I mean we had it we had it on the table off it was just unsafe for kids it was just wear and tear broken board and part of these plate structure is ADA accessible and all that I didn't know from that picture but it is Village Place that manager she is now starting to host Veterans Coffee every month and so Veterans Community Project has come in to one of those and she had different Veterans Groups lined up to come in monthly for the next six months and she's had about in it's not just Veterans Families Military Families and she has last her last one had over 25 residents and family members in attendance Mortgage Company here out for spring free while they're coming out getting signed in child review at the end of this month um Paul River they started Fall Bus a lot of what you'll see we have coffee stations that are property and so they call it Fall Bus and the manager goes out and makes coffee with the residents in the morning and kind of just give you a personal relationship and the Asphalt Recur is our first time lodge so y'all will have to go through their pictures and the fun and so these pictures come from four different properties the painting and the ghost and the ornaments and Are we still doing the Via shuttle? Yes. Is that like built in for next year as well? Of course. It is um so partially it will be paid by the city and it will also put a chunk of money just in case um I think we're going to have to take over it this year that will be forward but just in case we don't have a plan it's going to be here. So we might have to get creative sometime next year come that's like future funding. Yeah. So one of the things that I have to talk to about is getting some additional funding areas through 2026 which I think they're going to bring up this time. Is that 25k for property? No 25k. How do we find that? Well, our new doctors with council members and so I think it has to report the other group. We'll see what's good. It's more time to go. Good. I have a spot for you and I'll leave it as a portable housing home. We're really good at asking for money. Let's go to age receivables. So we have in total this year turned over $338,000 and so I think we finally got one tenant that called recently and must have gotten three private collection agencies. Where are you just going to end? Well, I'm just, the person is late so I can't remember correctly what I think we're at right now. So the person is late when do we start saying to them Well, the age we get notice would be the age we attached. Okay. So we're currently doing the 30-day interview depending on what day of the month and what our schedules look like. It's a 30-day notice. It's going to be 10-day now so we're going to do it with full 30-day and then once that expires then the attorney back on it. So we roll over to the next month and there's another month behind. Hopefully we'll all get those big amounts. Yeah, that's right. I think when we start and those of you all that stepped in and 20, I mean, we were finding people that had a grant and six, seven bonds and so that's a big operation. We're even watching now I have like 10 weeks so the rents may not the residence portion may not be big but once they hit two months mark we're going to be doing that process just because we know the process now is going to be longer by the 30-day notice and you get a court date with all the holidays through and four months behind it. Now the sheriff is 45 to 68 hours well. Correct. There's one group in Denver who is helping right now. That variation is referring to but the chance of them getting that well the balance we have we have collections so there's only 10,000 and all about properties that have some of them and some of them are still working through the eviction process and so you know those three option areas because they're still working through the eviction process maybe that are still a couple right now. I have four at some point in the eviction process right now I know two here one Fall River which we reached the situation where we were on yesterday and then one more from Spring Creek and this would be kind of another opportunity for what we do to retrieve as an option if the community can actually have a collection of this that maybe we do the same thing when we send it to a collection and they're in proper actual collections and a lot of the times you don't see people with evidence so it's kind of hard for them to connect if they're not in communication with the tenant but if they can work out better. So that was employee versus collection agency. And the difference between you have June on here and September the difference in the balance $526,000 $1,000 the balance that you did I've noticed that my print area but so there was a huge red dot in July that occurred which adds up to them so that's what it dropped and I'm just doing that quarterly since the last week when I used all those junes asked for new financials I mean most items that are over budget are probably concerned a lot of its vacancy what we realized in our path of budgeting is we may budget at a 95% vacancy rate and Lisa may say we're at 98% but it's all dependent on the units that are paid during that time so it's hard to never align her percentages with my percentages because it's all dependent on the units that are paid which is a one-bender you'll see insurance proceeds coming in those insurance costs that aren't necessarily limited for but you're going to show it's going to break the budget we'll rescue and then there's bad debt write-ups that are happening so once you see this the debt but we also charged the ledgers which was also not happening in the beginning they weren't charging these ledgers and so if these people come back they'll pull up that visual and see they don't have a clean ledger we had issues and that's what was happening we had a couple of instances when we first went to the board we found out they had already been here once before and had the same issue but nobody put it in nobody put it in this is a bit like on our end that they left always nothing where they truly owe this with that one and I don't know if this was discussed last time but we are looking to increase the security budget to $1,000 right now it's only $500 and so sometimes so what are my measures they do kind of a market survey of a lot of local affordable and conventional units and that's still about $1,000 is actually lower than what a lot of people are helping for right now people has 2 energy now it's I think they've come up to $500 and are you guys changing your performance as well as changes? not yet not until someone tells you? yes I would just hate to allow them and the damages just go even up even more right now we don't allow pets it's just the emotional support animals we just start allowing everybody to have pets but no there's no pet deposit so we're going to stay right now with our don't pet policy until legislation comes out with set some hearts in a lot which that requires our health so on the streets yes it was something I catch during my review in September because we had right counteracted money so is that the when they kind of hire for the streets then? is it too much? no so what this is is this is going in there usually at the end of the year we go to an all on streets it's always the highest so it's like people 10% and if they're met that's they can just jump and usually we don't have to have big reasons to handle it but it's been fluctuation in the right house so yes it will kind of negate what is this a voucher? yes it's a voucher so the vouchers sorry this is short but I'm trying to give you kind of an idea this is one or two years away and what it looks like after a year or two years technically at the end of this year we're going to be at about 422 vouchers that's what we're looking at by the end of next year we're going to have and the reason that is the increase, the 2024 increase for the fair market was actually the increase it was almost like $200 we have that up for months depending on when you're certified it's going to have been kind of aggressive on what we're going to see and changes in correct increases as the months go along unless it gets more and usually we won't be able to have a voucher so much as additional money or if there's an opportunity for us to ask can you walk us through this a little bit like what is the UNA's yeah so the UNA is an actual like that's what we're looking for so we can have 518 vouchers but this is where we want to do 410 we have 416 that's the actual outcome down to November we're going to have vouchers at the issue so we have people out searching and so what they do is they kind of take their attrition rate and how fast they're going to say buy it when it's up and they take that and kind of divide that into the next the next column that says we're going to see from issue vouchers it's automatic calculation and so I'm going to say we're probably going to lose two of those here two of them that's going to work based on our attrition rate and then in the column in between that I basically say we need to reduce money so I've already told the group if you get 5 you're going to pour out and you never hear from them they just lose the voucher because they don't qualify anymore we need to find that so that we can begin so this is kind of picking at the way every month to see where we're at so our dollar bill and then yeah so then it'll kind of do an automatic calculation over here to kind of give you an idea so those are kind of the next columns based on where you're at today what they need to release up what you need to be stand on and then what your actual projected current cost per unit is and so then it'll kind of do this other calculation of the yellow one and as you go through the months here's where we can see the actual and so it does two years because you get so much money and it actually kind of covers the two-year period with your reserves but as you start to voucher up and then the right printing is and it can go into a third year but that's like yeah it's a struggle it's like and we're doing 105% so that's another thing that has also dropped our voucher and we were expecting to be at 4% but we hadn't dropped just because it was 100% it's harder to find units at that rate I don't think it's harder in our area but what we were doing was we were going to go for counting we were all going to be like we were going to have a 10 and for every voucher we should reduce the admin load so the lower your voucher count the lower your admin cost to support the program well part of the challenge is about 50% but the county's vouchers are actually in law and in order so we have a lot of those coming in which is it's a challenge and so yesterday when they were in a different conversation there was a county rep we got in the housing we're going to have probably an exchange in that conversation that the housing authority got into about 28 there was one more than that we had about 40 years ago that says before and over and over again and it's a problem but we are we are serving everyone and our vouchers are trying to it's a very big win the other thing we probably could also add next year is looking at why is it so specific that's not just in general for our housing it's always being done in our housing yeah that's going to be the next conversation actually more from the city side is about building here and building unincorporated Boulder County there's a lot of places they can build they just don't want to find where the nine lines are and if you're going to talk about affordable housing then you need to build affordable housing just talk about it and then when there's an opportunity shine the way Roman came and so yeah probably an interesting conversation it's entwined in land use planning and there was one specific land use in our entire really affordable housing movement the Boulder County region every month took the ability for MIMI's to build projects the amount of public through the sports input they had in affordable housing and it started in a good place but it's taken over so it's very good in racial segregation is to come to a circle and now second base it's too circular and it's expanded it's not even just affordable it's market rate density so it's a problem and always has been down well I mean housing generally I said in an article I was reading last night on CNN you know the challenge is that the housing crisis is no longer just before it's on the table it's all housing and this article did a really good job and really laying out the fact that if you're not moving into the city you're sitting yourself up for a failure and right now you know when we look at our housing data Kyle Kyle Snyder sends me a report I remember a lot what's really interesting in the housing market right now is that the prices aren't going down they're actually last month over the same month last year it's the days on the market that are extending out longer which it's pretty clear that the interest rates started dropping we're likely to see competition again that just sends us on an out of control pricing once more and if we're not filling that gap on something important to move in we're just going to continue that as we move in Is there policy work from the city on the Builders Rest Mitigation that's been talked about? We've talked to CNN about that in the legislative session there was a legislative update in Denver and I think for the first time there were more conversations from the legislators about really leading the game to construction defects and it wasn't limited to one party I think everyone was starting to go here's what we need to do and the work that we're doing will be and some of the folks in the state are talking about getting us involved just because from the city standpoint we wanted a view where we sit and have the HCI and LHA and we have our own affordable and now-send angel project that really can see the full picture and talk about it because I think most people say Builders bring it up well it's self-interest and they start going through what it's about but what it's really about is the underwriters in terms of what they're willing to do it's about the insurance companies and now it's about the construction companies the construction companies and multi-family projects are coming in and the contract is this will not be a full show and so we'll never build condos as long as that that's not a single piece there's no starter home anymore we either run to the apartment or we buy in some of them we have our own retirement and our investments and we were talking about rates and those that are probably more heavier in apartments because the lack of housing nationwide and I can tell you my colleagues are almost as bad in Texas where it wasn't that bad a lot in California California is California but it is every state and the construction's been shut down because of the insurance the project wasn't already through and you can probably see this more if it wasn't ready to go they're not getting any finance to build new so we really have another one the raising of the rents are we seeing any people that are in prisons that can't move out I think Carol did a really good job and she goes into that coffee competition she was fired but we've not had any perspective at the end of the day the challenges were what else did we do what else did we do and so and a lot of it comes in and I think what else did we do and for us what else did we do is get bigger gas bills I don't think ours works but basically but we lost so here's what we lost some things in the process so we didn't get the five problems well you have your four plus one and you have a lesser product that makes the same price but that's why I don't think ours would have addressed it because they lost their high product though and that's just based on the value that the insurance company has seen what they're seeing at the market and the risk so I think that was the biggest piece for us because of that average you have a property insurance generally on the city side it went up because you know the health swarms and everything it's just on the city side so technically so some of these properties if we had a total loss it may not be what the instruction is today so that's just on the family of it so I mean we even know those plates was one of our big ones so those plates instead of like I think they were 40,000 or 75,000 because they were several of the instruction costs so that's not neat to just make one with what it means that we saw from the wildfire business that was pretty common just I think it's pretty common on the front range a lot of us got into that but they were under a chair of the service council here great the camera debacle we are ordering equipment so a lot of different moving parts of this but basically federal procurement all these things came into play and long story short we're bidding on the equipment at this point and then moving forward with the city on the install from the company that we've all been going to and we've been working with us for months so there's a contract now moving forward with him with the city as well that detector update Dan from New Zealand is here we are meeting with him tomorrow the data that we've been gathering since June what we've seen questions we have from Harold and I met last week we have pretty much a few questions to set up to understand where they're going with technology and what we're seeing is an efficiency at our end and then he's going to give us an update like a new version tomorrow when he's here and we plan on putting that at AMSN the vegetable vegetable vegetable basically where a lot of folks come in and out so that that will be where the new device is going to go and so I'm pushing our attorneys to hear that on that event and I plan on having that for you next month to just review the cat both our attorneys have seen it I've written some basically ask for changes just knowing what the device is and how it's working and then putting all the legal leads to that so look forward to seeing that next month at our meeting and call for service Dan, find some wood we, you know, have it flow but overall been very low cost of services as I mentioned and really stand on top of the problems that come up where we basically put in all our resources to those folks right away I think I emailed you about a drywall alternative product but you probably get a thousand from me what did you tell me? it was probably a few weeks ago okay, who are you? I was gone for a life period okay, sorry oh, yeah so drywall? so we are on Willoughby corner our FFD consultant is a company called DRB Interior based out of State Newark and one of them was telling us about the product they recently put into an office space that is a drywall alternative and it's recycled plastic and I asked her for the specs on the product because I would be interested to see if it's not as permeable as drywall how it would work in multi family because that could be huge I don't know how expensive it is comparatively but it might be like how do you do counter tops better to put in a solid surface counter top change it out less often up front than paper or mica so I was out sick when they came so I'll connect with her so she can give me the information because I would love to get some samples and test it because that's a place that's something you guys can do test exposure just my mind just went I don't give a method to do that we can talk about that it would be wonderful and I'll look for your email I'll resend it that's probably the easiest does it have something to do with it no, I'm good other business, anything I was going to buy it's not bad it's usually not bad it's usually not bad that's going to be a higher coverage later that's not part of the research well it's kind of a mess because in the case of an invert where they attach the liability to the property owners granted this is more active use than cooking but I chase really open the door for liability for property owners so if you have a contaminated unit it's sick and then you don't have coverage the landlord is not addressing it right and so that concerns me a lot because while this is more with direct cooking or high use it creates a gap in the liability for landlords and so we're going to have to watch that we have just a couple of minutes but basically you need to press the rocks the rocks so we've got a rock at Spring Creek Fall River as the senior as the neighborhood so we're already doing a lot not a high priority but we will work through the next couple of months where they need to go is this like folders or rock gravel instead of folders what did you up to 8 inch rock depending on the property and the location so I'm going to stop about 3-4 thousand for the month they're large enough size I know they will anything else