 Yeah, the idea for today is I will just do a really short introduction that we will repeat that later, but just for everyone to see, last year, Euro-Python decided to move the conference to be online, and that was the first time ever for this conference, and Euro-Python is a completely different event, like usually it's like a 1200 party attendees in a venue, so there was a lot of things to learn, there was a lot of work, there was a huge, a really big group of volunteers helping there, and we are thinking that it's a really good idea to share the knowledge, so we are really doing that, so there's some documents that are public in our website, we can share the link later probably, but then we were thinking that this, to test this format, so today is kind of a test, right? So the idea is to meet up together, and if people want to know about organizing an online event, or the challenge, or the things, or the perks, we are here to answer, that's the idea for today, so let's do our own percent in everyone, so I can say, I want to nominate Raquel, and then Raquel, when you finish you nominate the next one, the next one, and then we will do that. We have to drink a bottle of vodka? It's your option, it's okay. I do have the Euro-Python Edinburgh's bottle here, but it's just water, unfortunately. I'm drinking mate, so. No true Scottson. Yeah, so I'm Raquel, I'm also one of the organizers for Euro-Python, and I had the privilege of working with a pretty big team this year after we switched Euro-Python online, so that was really lovely, and that's why we want to build on the momentum, and then perhaps reach out more to the community, and see how we can share more of our knowledge with others, so here we are doing this, and now I will nominate Stephen, Stephen, Stephen? Yeah, Stephen, sure, yeah. Thanks for coming. Sure, hi, I'm Stephen, I don't know if I'm an imposter, but I haven't organized, but not with Python, but I organized previously with, for 16 years with Burnish High Tribal Inacium Groups. I'm from Dublin, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, so ironically I was really, really looking forward to presenting my first talk this year in Dublin, so that sucks, and is next year going to be online, Raquel, because, do you think it will be in person? I'm going to write that as we're down, and we will reply after the... Okay, I'm going to guess, I'm going to guess that it's 60% likely to be online again? No? No. Okay, no comment. Anyway. I just want to finish the area to say hello, so we give a few more minutes for other people to join, and then we can talk about that. Gotcha, okay, sorry, Nicos. So, yeah, I mean, I want, you know, everything has gone virtual, so PyGotham, for example, the New York Python User Group, they're doing their virtual thing, I think it's October or November, and you guys all know about pajamas, so there's like a full rotating calendar now of everything worldwide, and actually, sorry, what was the name of the dude from Amsterdam? Sorry, I forgot your name. The guy from Amsterdam. Nicolas. Nicholas. No, no, no, from Amsterdam. I'm just going to say that the Dutch, like, there's like a sort of a weekly and monthly calendar of online Python groups now, would be really cool to sort of get them all in one place. So, in the San Francisco Bay Area, we also have SSF Python, and there's some others. I think the Python org event has like a whole listing of things. Obviously, if you never submit any of your listing, then it might not be included, but I think that would be the best place to submit the listing. Well, the Moen Wiki? Yeah, I've actually gone through the Moen Wiki. It's a little bit, need some sort of de-crafting, like some of that stuff is stale, some of the stuff still exists, some of the stuff is groups of 10 people, some of it is groups of 20,000 people. So, you know, some of them, they only have three meetings a year on an occasional basis. Anyway, yeah, I mean, just, just an observation. But it's nice to meet you all. I mean, I know all your names from the menu list, especially Vicky. I never met Vicky in person. And I was hoping to meet all the Picon Ireland crew this year. And raise the point, I say. You can still probably do that. So you need to nominate the next person 2%, 2%? Well, since I mentioned Vicky, might as well pick Vicky. Hello. This is just an introduction, is it? All right. So as Steven said that, yeah, I used to run Picon Ireland and for the first four editions before I burnt out because I was also running all the Picon Ireland stuff, being involved with that from 2005 to I stepped down in 2016. Currently, I'm kind of doing, kind of promoting more diversity in text. So I'm running kind of smaller meetups now in the form of Pileadies Dublin and other stuff. I run a ton of other stuff, but Python related. That will be the main one. But I do try to make sure that Python Ireland, Piedata, all the stuff that Chuck and Leicester, that I try to promote all that, like whatever local events are happening around Ireland. So next person I am going to point to is Martin. Hi there. My name is Martin. I'm also on the board of Europe of your Python society. In my normal life, I'm professor of Geoinformatics and computer graphics. And I do have some practice now with several online conferences. So yeah, we just had one this week again, a little bit similar. It's actually an optimized version of the Europe Python event. So I think we are ready for more online events, maybe who knows. And you can ask about that. I nominate Rebecca. I'm Rebecca. I'm based in New Zealand. So it's 5.30 in the morning at the moment. I'm the general secretary of the Odu Community Association. And we've got our OCA days coming up shortly, which is normally a code sprint of a couple of days and then talks and presentations running alongside. So I'm just here to gain any tips and tricks to just try and help things run smoothly. Any knowledge that you have to impart, I am willing to hear. Abbas, is your... We don't know if your audio is working or if you are there. I'm going to ask Abbas to unmute to see if that works. Okay, Francesco, you're up. All right. Well, my name is Francesco. I'm living in Granada, Spain. I work in astronomy. And I love Python and I've been also helping over the years volunteering better with the Europe Python conference when it was in person. I'm organizing an online conference, which is about software development in astronomy. So a little bit more general that Python is going to be online. In the first half of November, if you're interested, what's a better occasion to learn something about software and astronomy. And I'm being helping organize the next edition of Europe Python. So next up, I guess, is Marc. Hi there. Sorry, I was late. I had to pick up my daughter. I'm Marc. I'm a member of the Europe Python Society, board member. And I've been running Europe Python for quite a few years now. And we thought that this format, this Ask Me Anything format might be something useful to help other conferences, other conference organizers to maybe learn a bit about the experience that we've made, how we ran the event, what we found, what worked, what did not work so well. And so perhaps this is interesting for some of you. I don't know who else needs to introduce themselves. So I think the one that, so I was asking Abbas to write something in the chat. So sorry, I saw the chat right now. So I missed that before. Okay, so he's saying, my name is Abbas. I'm a beginner of Python. He's learning on PyPandas and deep learning. So Abbas, if you can write later what you're looking for, for this Ask Me Anything, or if you are participating in an event, that's good to know. I think Leo is there. Leo, is your audio working? Okay, I know this Leo, okay. Hi there. Hello. So we were saying that we were doing a small introduction. So you can say who are you? Okay, I will practice my English right now. It's a little bit rusty, but I'll give it a try. My name is Leandro. I'm from Python Argentina. I'm the treasurer of the NGO of Python Argentina and one of the collaborators in the organization of the Python here in Argentina since 2016. Now I'm working at Mercado Libre, building the Python ecosystem inside this company. Cool, welcome. Nice to see you. Nice to see you too, Giorga. Okay, so we don't have a fixed format for today. So Rebeca, you were saying that you are going to host an event. Francesco also, Stephen, I'm not sure if you are paying too that, but I think we can go to some fixed format or we can share some data. And it's important for us, if you go to the Raquel share a link in the, I can probably maybe share my screen, I don't know. But if you go to the chat, Raquel just share a link, and there is a public documents that we are sharing with all the other documentation that we did for the, okay, cool. So all the documentation that we did for the EuroPython. So I think that's a really good resource for anyone. And there are a lot of documents that are quite long. So I would say let's just try to have some questions. So anyone has a question? I do. Yeah. Did you do pre-recorded sessions? Or was it all live? How did you do it? I don't know who the cycle is going to reply. Maybe we can... Because we had a plan on doing everything live. And then this week there's just been a discussion of maybe some people aren't comfortable presenting live. So maybe it would be better to pre-record some of the sessions and then have the speaker there at the end for questions and answers. So I was wondering what success people may have had either way. Yeah. If I can interject also. So for PiBay in the Bay Area we use remote.co as a platform. What platform did you guys use? So EuroPython was live. So we did a backup for a few talks. So we asked the speakers to record a video if they wanted to. But I think we got only a few. The conference was live and there was a Q&A option. So we were asking the speaker if they wanted to have questions. And then we were asking those questions live. What we did is we were using Zoom or the Zoom webinar. So this is different at this meeting. So in Zoom webinar you only see the speakers and then the attendees are not, they don't have camera or audio. You can enable the audio, like an option. And we were using Discord as a chat, right? So all the chat, all the conversation was happening on Discord. And then the talk for live. And then we have four tracks and maybe four or five. I'm not sure. So for each track, we have a person as a host in the track, right? So for example, I did that. And then for each speaker, we were presenting the speaker. I would be asking some questions. So we would break the ice and then the host was the responsible for the questions. So we were using two different ways. Zoom has an option for Q&A. So in the webinar, and then the host was selecting questions from that one, asking the question live. For us, that was important because then it's in the video, right? Yes. Because otherwise the questions are, you can also decide because for some talks you have a lot. And then we were also asking for people, if they wanted to ask live, because there is an option in the webinar that you can enable the audio, just for someone to ask a question and then you can disable it. That was not really popular, but I think we did a few. I would recommend you to see the videos of our conference. There are like six theory or an IT already public. And maybe there you can see a format. And then other thing that's important is, so you're seeing the speaker guide that we did. And I think the most important part for us was, and the hosting guide. So the hosting is for the person that's hosting. And then for the speaker. And then we did a training. So we did, we started, I don't remember how many weeks in advance. Three weeks and two days, I think. So this sheet that Mark is showing is the training sessions that we did. So for each one, we were, we have all our speakers. This sheet template we are planning, I don't know it's public or we are planning to publish it, but basically we were asking all the speakers to join. And we were doing a rehearsal basically, like presenting the person. And that was, I think that was really, really important for us. It took a time, but then we are really, it's a way for us to learn issues, to help the speakers to have a better setup, to test the audio. And I personally believe that there was a lot of things that were going really good in the conference, because we did the training. So I think live, my personal opinion is live is really nice. I don't like a conference that is recorded. I go in there and just to watch videos. And I believe that the, I go personally some feeling similar to a real life conference. I think that was my personal. But if you check the resources, because I know it's there quite long. So if you see, I don't know the number of pages, but they are long, but at the same time there is 24 pages, right? That one. But there is a lot of detail there, a lot of small things that we were like learning. So I will let Mark or Raquel, maybe add some things more. Maybe we can, we can give you a bit of an overview of what we have available that you can actually already read online. Yeah. So the hosting guide and the speaker guide, we don't have online yet. We need to clean those up a bit. And then we're going to put them on the page as well. We set up this page here, which is at your Python. This is the website, your partner society.org. And then you have this short menu up here. And then you have conference resources over here. We can also paste the link maybe into the chat. Where's my chat window? Have you already done it? Raquel already. Just did it. Yeah. Are you already there because that's interesting. I don't see much. Anyway. So this is the page where we started to put things online. The first link that you see here, this is a collection of online conference tools. This is how we did the research in April and May. This is where we then try to figure out which conference tools to use. And then after we then decided which tools to use, then we built the concept here. And this is documented in this document. So if you go here to the conference tools. Document, then you see that we have 82 pages here. So it was quite a bit of information. We first put all the different solutions here. And then we ended up using zoom and discord. And then we added additional information specifically for zoom and discord further down here. Which is in case you want to use these tools over here. In case you want to use these tools, I guess these things are relevant and. Yeah, probably a good resource to use because a lot of this information is not readily available in the documentation that you find online. So most of this basically we found by trial and error and, you know, learning along the way so you put everything in here. So that's useful for zoom and discord for other tools of course you will then need to do your own research. So we decided to use these tools, other tools have, you know, appeared on the market so maybe you want to use some other kind of servers. At the time we did not have that many tools readily available. The most, let's say the something that we found would would have been nice. It's, it's something to to have a central platform for doing everything in one place. So the issue that we had was that we actually had two systems here so we had zoom and we had discord and the audience as well as the speakers and the moderators always had to monitor to windows, which wasn't necessarily ideal. Nowadays there are platforms that integrate both. So if you can find one of those and that's probably going to give you a better experience. Right. So with the other hand having two different systems to to work with actually also opens up some, you know, fallback solutions, let's say something works in one system but not in the other than you can just you know use the other system to basically work around the issues that you find. So that's how we decided to use online tools and then we developed the, the concept here so we decided on the session formats that we wanted to use the schedule. How we wanted to run everything in the chat system how we wanted to set that up. We initially were not initially actually put this into place we wanted to have one channel per track. Actually we did not do it this way so we need to update this. What we had is we had one channel per session that we organize so for every single talk we had a separate channel. That is something that we would not recommend doing anymore. So that's why the pay us right so I can show you the discord server and just open it. Sorry, did you know there's a team track like say infrastructure or web machine learning. We had four different. Well we call them tracks but they are we're actually not, you know specifically grouped by by topic let's say we only we had a data science track, which was the track for that we had at the time. So we, that's the only grouping that we kind of tried for the other tracks we basically just put them into different rooms see the different talks and then we arrange things to to work out so what you see here. I hope you can see this should be a dark window that you're seeing there. So this is discord. It's, it's an application that was originally was was used a lot by by gamers, where they play games together and wants to communicate with each other. Nowadays it's opening more up to all kinds of different things so you can actually use this for a lot of chat activities and also has audio video built in to some extent not to the extent that we needed for the conference. So we have, let's say, you know 20 people coming together wanting to do audio video that works fine. Above that is the zoom is the better platform definitely so what you see here is the different categories, and I close all the categories here that have all these rooms. But then if you if you open these then you find lots and lots of these channels here. And the problem was that we had over 130 sessions so we had over 130 of these channels, which then basically led to people, you know, kind of diving into these rabbit holes and not getting out of them again so it kind of broke the problem that we wanted to achieve on the hallway track and on the main conference track channels which we had here. We were trying to have another lot of channels, and at the end we failed it right and the conclusion is that it's not a good idea I think, Martin you were in a in a conference a few days ago and I think you went for the few a channel per track Yes, I only had one channel per track this actually worked pretty well. So, yeah, can check out 1234567899 channels in total the lobby had three and the virtual conference had six, but I only have two tracks I have to say at the other conference. So we limited this to a to a bare minimum. So that's worked quite well. And also we had some live talks, most of course were live and we had to pre recorded talks because the speakers had some technical difficulties maintaining the connection. But I have to say live talks are really much better. It's just live and and it's different. I mean if you watch it pre recorded you can you can just watch YouTube movies basically that's that's not some, not a conference in this sense. And I attended a couple weeks ago attend the conference they all pre recorded. And as an attendee I had to say it's really it's really very boring if everything is pre recorded. It's really amazing. It's not like a real event. Yeah, I really agree with that and I think we did consider, especially like some of the speakers also mentioned that they might prefer pre recorded because they get pretty nervous as we really do understand, but I think the energy is quite different. Even though I do agree that the pre recorded ones can be smoother I think you in this kind of online conference I think you want that sort of energy that anything can happen. I think that's quite important. I just want to bring up one little detail. If you are to host your event also on zoom and you want to have the pre recorded ones then you really do want to test that in advance, because I think zoom is quite optimized for this kind of live sessions. So if you are to have the, the, if you were to have the share to the pre recorded ones and you will have to do the share screen. And what we found out is that it's not always working very well and that's why Mark actually set up these VMs for us to to be able to play ads because we have these sponsor ads and we want them to be high quality. So we found out that wasn't very easy to do so we had to like do these often on the VMs just to make sure the quality is good. Otherwise you often end up with 360p which is not ideal, especially if you have like a demo live demo or something. I don't know is in our document that we were, we configure in our infrastructure we have like a five EMS and one for each track there was a built on machine hosting the zoom so if there was any issue with our internet or anything, the webinar was still working. I'm sorry. Go go. There's this one thing about like pre recorded talk because I've got some comment that people say that it was pre recorded they can edit like as a titles for maybe not English speakers or maybe for like non native English speakers or maybe for people who have hearing impaired. That's a good point but I think we could maybe have live caption or something like that. That would work the same as well so yeah. There is a, there is a free online captioning service and some Vancouver nonprofit told me the other day I forget the names like tiger or something. Let me try to find the link I'll drop it in the. If I could mention the, the thing I just posted in chat. So with regard to live versus recorded and have to keep the energy, the killer feature that we learned from pi based the ability to have a vote of question list. There's a separate Q&A tab. So, remote.co is better than discord in the sense you have a separate Q&A tab. People post the questions they haven't been incentive to post the question early. People vote in it. And there's a moderator and the moderator can decide. Generally we keep questions to the end to keep the cohesion of the talk because it's been video. But if the if the speaker cadence is off or they really need some energy or they need somebody to refocus them, then the moderator can make the decision which questions to ask when what sequence how to bundle them. So the moderator has really has the power in the live live session to keep things on track and keep the energy life. It's way better than recorded. So that's why we do that with the questions, right. So people was asking the question soon, you can vote them, and then the moderators decided when to ask and which ones. Okay, I see. Also, we had a canned applause. We had a canned applause track at the end which sounds corny, but it actually works. And because I think the more complex thing that we did was that all the host we were having some custom configuration in our setup to play sounds. So we're playing some applause. Every time I was to finish in a talk, we're playing some sounds and sharing and we're using this applause. I just want to mention that, you know, this may sound a bit. This may sound silly, but when you add an online conference, especially as a speaker, and you don't get this kind of feedback from the audience. It's actually very frustrating, because you've been just, you know, talking for half an hour. Maybe you get a few questions. But there's no feeling for the for the speaker to get this audience feedback and because, you know, just having a few thumbs up in the chat. It's nothing like that. So the, you know, playing the audio is actually quite nice and people loved it. You don't have to do what I did is one talk I forgot to turn it off. We've been done for probably two minutes. One thing that we are a little bit struggling with, with this other conference I'm organizing is that we have lots of posters. In addition, we have 120, 150 posters, some editions up to 200 posters. And we are offering people the possibility to have a pre-recorded lightning talk to go with their posters. And then we show the posters as a PDF, that's the idea. And then in the old, you know, breaks and whatnot. The idea is to show the lightning talks like on a loop. And I don't know how do you folks feel about it? Do you think it's a good idea? What I'm hearing here is that live is better than pre-recorded and I agree for talks. Absolutely. That's what we are planning. For this lightning talks, this like for posters, I don't know. We are a little bit conflicted. I would say lightning talks are the best thing ever, even online. So if you are planning to do a lightning tour recorder, you are like killing lightning talks, right? Because all the nice things about the lightning talks is that it's short, you need to finish in five minutes. I think there's a lot of reasons for the lightning talks. I don't see a format of five minutes or pre-recorded. But then for the poster, we hosted I think four or five, less than ten. We did have a few more, but the posters, to be honest, the sessions were not really well organized by us. So we kind of left the speakers to their own devices. And we also did not really prepare that too much. The original plan was that we have the speaker to share the screen and then move around in the PDF and zoom into various parts of the PDF because normally you have these A0 kind of PDFs. Zoom around in that PDF and then explain to the people, the audience directly in a Zoom meeting like what we have now, which is a bit more personal than a webinar, the various details on that PDF. But in the end, I think it did not really work that well because, you know, there's no way for the people interested in the poster to point to certain things or to make it clear what they're actually after. So a lot of what you have at the conference when you do a poster is missing in the online format. Now, back to the question that Francesco had there with the lightning talks. Actually, I think what Nicolas meant was this kind of format where you do impromptu five-minute sessions, right? That's basically what lightning talk normally is. But I think you're coming more from the time limit from a scientific conference because what I know from scientific conferences is that typically when you have a poster, you actually just have five minutes to give your talk and that's actually a talk. It's not a lightning talk. And then you guide people to your poster and tell them, okay, if you have questions, please come to my poster. That's correct, yeah. Yeah, so it's a different format. I can suggest for posters. So I gave a poster live five minutes. I lost my timer because they told me the timer window will show the timer window shows for the moderator but not for the speaker. So I had to mentally time myself. Then my neighbor's car alarm went off. Then some other people started chattering. Yeah, but it worked okay. But yeah, the best practice we found is simply ask lightning speakers to demo to each other, like at lunchtime or whatever. And like any rehearsal is better than none. And with regard to the highlighting, I mean you can always do slides. You can always have a, you know, you can throw fruit at me but you can say PowerPoint, the Mac one. You can use any of the standard presentation packages, especially syntax highlighting. And that works okay, especially if it's going to be video. It's less nasty than a little cursor. So we might like to share what which presentation packages are found to work well online. That's a good point. Yeah. I remember I was in a training session. Someone was in the training and the person told me, yeah, but I'm going to present a poster and I had no idea what to do. So I started asking our chat. So it's true what Mark was saying that we are not really prepared and we are, we just have a room for them. The idea was, these posters are going to be in this room for one hour or 40 minutes, and you can go there and ask. I can, my feeling is I will be nice to have a five minutes presentation for them. And then a way to contact the person. Please don't create the channel. I think it's a way to cover that because at the end is does the format right so you can listen to the person presenting and then you, you can go and ask more questions. So maybe you need to be really clear how to find that person in the chat. Maybe I don't know, pointing the username in the website in the schedule or in a page or something. So what do you think about zoom fatigue. You, when you organize. You know, I was absolutely not, you know, available for this year Europe Python. I was, you know, this year was a bad year for me. But so I actually wonder, you know, what, what's your experience with this, you know, having, you know, a session very packed and lots of lots of content Europe Python has a huge amount of content always does, but online in particular, what, what would you feel about, you know, this zoom fatigue like after three hours in a zoom meeting you're like dead or something. In the marketing market you can show the skill. In a perspective of the host or is it a perspective of audiences. I can I can show you the. We do have breaks right the breaks in between can help a lot I think you might in my experience. Short breaks though. We had a five minute break people can chat they can reconnect with friends if they decide they want to go to the hallway track or follow up with speaker they can do that without breaking the flow. Well, what you see here this is this is the schedule, basically our internal spreadsheet that we use for organizing the schedule doesn't have the specific talks just to talk slots in here. This is the session of how many talks we actually had. And you see the poster slots here and then we had some additional sponsor rooms I wanted to mention the sponsor rooms as well but refers to this one. This is the setup that we had and then we had for each of those sessions, we had staff allocation. So we always had two people in each of those sessions. One session called a session chair, the session chairs role was to actually speak to the audience and speak to this talk to the speaker introduce the speaker and so on basically moderate the session. And then the room manager was responsible for the technical side of things so the room manager made sure that the you know the audio was properly set up the speaker was on board it before the talk session was then guided into the webinar so that everything was, you know, kind of smooth. So in case of any problems with the internet connection or so the room manager would then jump in and try to help. So we had two people per per room and that turned out to be a very good setup. Now in terms of the, your question Francesco with the fatigue. Actually, we, the original thought was that maybe we can do, you know, maybe three hours in a row per person. But actually it turned out that it's not that tiring after all, because you always get to do new things you have to work with, you know, different kinds of, of people you have to solve different problems. You have to hop around a lot. So there's a lot to do. It's not just about you know watching the talk that's going on. It really happened that much and as you can see here, the people who are working, you know, some people like Martin, for example, he basically was there all day. I was there all day as well I think at least on the second one. And this was manageable. And you can also see here that we started early. We ended very late. So the reason why we did that is because we wanted to have both the Asian time zones, you know, get some content as well as the European ones of course which is our main audience and then of course all the Americas as well. So what we found with your Python online is that we, we were getting a lot more people from the Americas to the conference than we have before. So that was an interesting aspect and that's also something that's going forward we will probably do something hybrid, we will, you know, once we can have an in person conference again we will probably still maintain this kind of online audience and give out online tickets so that people who cannot easily travel or for whom the the travel is just, you know, asking too much like you would say coming from Japan, for example, they can just join online. I thought your questions was about, was it audience fatigue or staff fatigue because I think audience fatigue is the bigger thing. You know, if the audience switches off or like, if there's two bad talks in a row you can lose a lot of audience. So what we, I think the question was actually about the organizers fatigue whether they were, you know, whether it was too much for them. And basically is that it actually did work out quite well. Coming to the audience we what we found this interesting. So, one detail that we found was that people tend to only join the conference during the business hours, their business hours, right. But we find, you know, we found a bit odd. I mean, but we actually saw that that you know when when business closed in Europe, we have fewer attendees and then the, of course, in the Americas people joined and then filled in those those slots. And it was the same in Asia. So that was an interesting experience and we think that this has to do with the fact that people probably, you know, they are told by the, by their companies to join these events. And then after the, you know, the day is over they just go home. It was interesting we wouldn't have expected that but that's what we found. In terms of fatigue, what we also found is that a lot of people only joined a few of the sessions so we did not have that many people who actually stayed for the whole day. It's actually the same as the personal conference as well if you found like you're tired you can go to the quiet room you can go to, you know, the coffee stand you can go out from the venue. So, yeah. I was going to suggest you have you have the power with the scheduling key notes. And so especially like we're on the west coast of the US, you don't need to schedule all your key notes first thing you can spread them through the day. You can have one later in the afternoon just to keep keep the audience sticking around, you know, if there's going to be a power speaker, so you can control the audience like that. And I was, we have a we have a keynote in the afternoon. Also when we have pajamas. So pajamas in December is going to be 24 hours. So you get real time analytics of who's having a vodka party and watching this at three in the morning, and who's watching from the office. And perhaps it depends like you said if your employer is paying and compelling you to attend this conference versus you really really want to do it. And maybe that comes back to the tracks thing so if you sort of keep the data science track more, you know, cohesive stuff like that, just a thought. In my case, I was able to attend only two talks at your Python this year, and they were all after business hours. And the one was Jessica. But yes, I can totally, I can totally see that because, you know, lots of people join because of work, right, the company pays the company says okay, you know, you should really go to a conference come on. And, you know, they do the business hours thing so that's I also think that a lot of people was just at home right and then after office hours you're probably your family's back right now. I think we would consider this as like work thing so they yeah it's it's versus when you travel to a conference you could basically you go there for this right so you can devote a lot of time in it you can stick around for beer afterwards or whatever. But in your home, then of course you still want to separate this from your family life and all this stuff because this is considered as work so. Yeah. That's from normal people right we were partying at the 11 at night. Yeah, I'm not talking about like that. Yeah, now doing it this late in the evening. I think one really nice feature for the online conference is I will choose right so in a conference in your life. Yeah, maybe you are tired you go to a room or you go outside to have a walk. But the nice about the online conference that if you miss it or talk, then if in YouTube, this is a YouTube feature. You can go back in the streaming and watch that talk at the same day in the conference so I think that was super nice. Yeah, while you're mentioning YouTube. Another point that we would do different than what we did this year is, we would not make the YouTube stream closed to just the, the paying audience so we would actually open that up, make it available to everyone. Because what we found is that people are more than willing to to actually pay extra for for getting the interactivity and getting access to the chat and getting access to, you know, people directly let's say for the posters, also for the for the speakers. And by opening up everything on YouTube and live streaming to YouTube which we did anyway, as an extra service to the attendee so that they for example could watch the conference on their TV so so. We would have probably gotten even, you know, more attention worldwide and if you're running a conference that happens every single year. There's actually good advertising for your conference if you go online now and then you go, you know, in person again in let's say a year or two. Probably in two years but then you will most likely have people join that conference the in person conference because they saw your conference and how it worked online on YouTube. You know, maybe they paid and then they also have the interaction so but but they definitely get a feeling for how the conference works. And that's I think that's a good. It's a good investment. You don't lose a lot. Originally we thought that we were a bit, let's say, we were not sure how many people would actually have paying for the conference and whether we could actually, you know, get enough income back to cover the cost. So we initially we made it a closed session normally for the in person event we always have live streaming free to YouTube and anyone can just join there. In the past years when we did the live streaming for the in person event we found that not a lot of people actually joined these streams. So we were actually considering maybe turning that off simply because it's too costly for us to do but in the in person event it's different. So we found that a lot of people actually like to use YouTube to watch the the conference so it's definitely something to consider. One thing I did do is you're actually able to invite your friends in real time to sign up so the whole the old school proposition that you sign up for conference weeks before and decide if you're going to pay or not pay. So it's a really good session, like I can message my friends and say hey so I was talking about such and such you should join. And it's basically, yeah, donation suggested. And, but I don't know how you probably don't like Twitter much, but any media, any media attention linked in Twitter anything in real time, you can try to, you know, attract people. I don't know if you like that idea. I mean, we with Twitter in particular we always have the problem that it's hard to find people who actually want to, you know, manage the Twitter account during the conference. Because of course as you can see here that we have lots of people, you know, involved in actually running the conference so there's no one left to run the Twitter account anymore. We've got one guy in America who runs a Twitter account. Okay, excellent. So we probably want to. We want 1000 people to filter him. Do you mind sharing that person with us. Oh, we're going to send him to you one way please don't ever try to return. Okay, so any, any other questions. Before we continue something I wanted to mention because we just kind of you know, glossed over that a bit. It's really important when you're running the conference is to keep in mind that you will have sponsors right and and the sponsor booth kind of idea that you have for an in person conference. We found it doesn't really work well for the online event. What you can do for the in person event for example is you can you can put the sponsor booths next to the coffee stations and the food stations right and then have people, you know, walk around like that and then you know accidentally bump into a booth. Ask some question there. This doesn't work for the for the online event. So, I would suggest that you you also consider coming up with a way to more integrate the sponsors into the conference schedule. And that we didn't do too well. And, you know, sponsors, even though they liked the conference and they also had some traffic. They didn't really get that much traffic to their rooms that we set up for them. So, what we would change next year is if we do it online again then we would then have the have sponsors give talks and put that directly into the schedule so that people, you know, watch these talks, even though it's a sponsor talk doesn't matter we can you can always you know, introduce them as a sponsor and people appreciate that that's that's perfectly fine. So, it's a better way to get more traffic to the sponsors. Question about that late invite since social media. So do you guys think it's tacky if you have say $50 the 50 year old, he get like a 10 year old refer a friend discount if your friend signs up. Do you think that works well, or I mean, equivalently, we had like two for one tickets or three for two tickets with discounts but with regard to doing it real time. It's actually work like are there any real time analytics and people who joined late. Why did they join because somebody recommended because they found it on the internet late or because their friend told him to No, we don't we don't have recommendations. So this kind of like a discount when you get someone in. We also don't have a lot of statistics on on, you know, the whole payment process with what we found is that we did have quite a few sign ups rather late in the process. What's what's interesting is that we did not have that many people joined late. Of course, when for the in person conference you know the dynamics of tickets sales are completely different than for the online event because it's you know you have to plan in advance you have to buy the tickets in advance you can get better prices if you buy early and so on we have to buy tickets for example, for the for the online event it's different because people can sign up very late. You know, people tend to not buy the tickets early on, or at least you give an early bird discount right and then you say hey deadlines going away and that doesn't work these days. So for the online event we did not have an early bird but for the in person one we definitely do and and usually we have them sold out in like say five minutes or so. So it's like we sell five to 300 to 300 tickets in five minutes so this is something that definitely works for an in person conference for the online one and I don't know whether it would work. Yeah, it does. I mean, that's something I've been doing for 16 years already. And if even if you have some sort of raffle and just say hey, sign up for your early bird and we're going to have a raffle for a free t-shirt. Things like that actually work or, and you can throw in your sponsors thing like whatever IBM's one month free of IBM's data science whatever, and you know you can kill many birds with one stone and drive the early turnout. Well, like, is that I heard earlier that you say the referral program thingy, I can't like that, you know, like encourage people to introduce your Python to their friends, rather than just you know, we keep the same audience every year. Yeah, actually, actually, yeah, here's the thing we used to do as a partner by they like have a newbie track specifically bring a friend bring a friend who doesn't bring your php friend and convert them in 60 minutes. Not quite, but that's them have a new track that's guaranteed to be newbie friendly and like there's no people won't harass you for asking you to quote unquote stupid questions and stuff. That's actually a good practice. And also the other thing is that, I guess, you have a lot of companies, they're registering like five people. You have the admin registering, you know, five, six people at least in our case it works like that, you know, and if you could give them a discount for registering a bunch of people they might register. They might register for more right because hey they're free or kind of free so we sort of do have that. We have like a that's, that's going through like a sponsorship route which mark might be able to show, but basically if you buy like five tickets, I think it's, if you buy five tickets were 10 tickets to get extra tickets for free. And that's basically kind of for, you know, kind of discount, you know, some kind of thing. I love the logo. So anyone has more questions. I do. I didn't, I wasn't there for the sprints. So I just want to curious, how did the sprints go, especially when you have all the leads leading each of their, each of their own sprints. And they had the option of using discord and stuff like that I was wondering in general, how did the sprints go normally like, I think in person it's quite different but unfortunately was wondering how did it get on this year. I would say in my opinion it went very well I was leading one of the project as well. I think people for engaging and yeah, I think that it works like the format using discord for sprints definitely work. We have done that before as well. So yeah, I think that that works. Yeah, I think especially for for sprints discord is really the ideal platform. So, because you typically have smaller teams, maybe no up to 20 people in one team. And that's that fits perfectly into the kind of the audio visual setup that discord provides. And of course you have everything in one place so what you see here this is the sprint section of discord that we had. And we had a text channel here a general one that the basically the hallway for the sprints. And then for each of these sprints we had a separate text section here. And the audio also allows you to do video or screen sharing so that was used a lot and people did not actually, you know, divert into other tools to run the sprints. That's great to hear at least you don't have any everyone trying to download everything at once in the morning problem anymore. I also enjoyed the sprints a lot they were super nice. Everything was on discord. And that was I really liked the one feature that is in this call you have like when you are presenting and you are sharing your skin or something that is like a small, a small closed caption or something. So you can and it was trivial for me to be jumping between the sprints right to see what was happening there to have like a preview that this was like the key one and to be in a spring and to be walking around all the tables. So the audio was so that the spring I was we were using the audio. And that was super nice because we were like a full day there. So it was, I think for that in particular discord was really good because it's always more small groups of four or five, maybe, I don't know I think the team I was we were like 10 at the same point but then the audio was working really good. That was, I really like the, the sprints. I think it's also like it's really convenient to run the sprints for a long time because you have people from different time zones and that fits the online format really well. What I do think that we might have not done a great job at is perhaps like it, we didn't prepare extremely well. So we didn't know who was necessarily going to show up or not. Even though most of the teams were absolutely amazing there were a couple that we just never heard from. So I think in hindsight, probably we would have contacted each team lead in advance and then maybe know when and how they're going to show up or present their sprints. And so I think that's just minor. I think, yeah, next year I'm very keen to do this because I'm also doing this like constantly with Tanya as well for help different conference to organize sprints and stuff. So, yeah. Thanks. That's cool. Great to see that format works really well online. So comment to Raquel and other guys selected tried it tried and tested wave, rewarding people for showing up at sprints is now give them a remainder of the t shirts or whatever conference flag, and just have a whole of, whole of fame of people who completed their sprints or any little gamified social engineering techniques that cost almost nothing and have them take pictures of themselves at their sprints or whatever. This is for for you at Pi Bay but what we always have for the in person event where you can then actually, you know, see people working at the sprints is that we will have two day sprints we have Saturday and Sunday for sprints and then Saturday we have, you know, maybe, one fourth of the conference audience is still there for the sprints and then on Sunday everyone starts to leave and so it's but you know, maybe half the count that we have on Saturdays. Is that similar to what you see. But I'm sorry you're talking about the old sort of in person. Yeah for the in person one. And I didn't attend to myself but I mean I guessing you're about right is, you know, especially because the sprints are typically on the Monday and Tuesday after. I mean, what we could do with the virtual one is that we could give the people attend a sprint age certificate. Yeah basically like it's easier if it's online we can just email them a certificate with the name on it so they can share on social media whatever you know, rather than swag because we have to post them which is a bit too much to think. Yeah, I mean if they're all in the same area or something I guess you just, you know, stick them on a box and surface melee. But yeah just for for this year obviously I think they, I think they killed all the sprints for probably because it was already at five nervous breakdowns just organizing the conference. So, because you're mentioning swag so for the, yeah, I wanted to highlight that so what we did is for. So that digital swag right so we asked the sponsors to to, you know, make things available like coupon codes PDF files with, you know, more information about their product or whatever they want to give us. And so we made that available put it on the webpage and so for the for people to then download from there or of course they could go to the there. Zoom rooms and then pick up things from there or the chat channels that we had for them. Something that in terms of you know physical swag because of course we couldn't do that we didn't want to do, you know, postal mail or so what we did is we set up a shop specifically for the conference and we set that up before the conference so that people could actually buy swag for the conference and then for example where the conference T shirt at the conference and show off a bit so that was you know, I wouldn't say it was a huge success but it was definitely something that people appreciated us doing so that you know they like this kind of being able to to have something that's physical. Yeah, I really like that. I don't know whether we should actually like do for the year we have maybe a week or a month like to okay you can reorder this kind of like the design from maybe like let's say neuro Python in Edinburgh edition so we can like have that logo only available for a week or so so if you want to get that better get it now. You can key it to early bird sign ups you can have the super super selective. And yeah, for us we're different we're in the San Francisco Bay area so you know you can just have like one person has all this swag for San Jose one has it for Oakland one has it for whatever Marine County. And also that there are some drop ship t-shirt printers and you just upload the design, and they'll do it. I don't know how you manage quality control but they do exist and you can probably manage bulk ships with those people. But we had a service for that called a spread shirt. And I think that is the US as well so this is what we use they ship worldwide. Unfortunately, they don't ship to the US because if you sign up with the European shop that they have they don't ship to the US you have to sign up with the US one if you want the cover want to cover the US as well. And I guess that's for tax reasons. And also for tax reasons we decided not to set up the one in the US because you know all this withholding tax stuff and all the regulations and documents and forums and stuff that was just simply too much for us to handle. You know, it's definitely something that that makes people, you know, feel nice about the conference and it's a way to to make them feel more being part of the conference. Yeah, I think it like you said if people wear it in the session gives us and then you see it in the videos, and if the video goes to YouTube or something offsite it reading its killer. I could try to connect you guys offline to there must be like a billion people over here I know who know about conference swag and, you know, if you need to set up a reciprocal arrangement like with them with them. So like, you know, they handle US swag you handle the European swag. Maybe it's this door. Yeah, we could try to set up something else. So but PyCon is not isn't Pi Bay it's all it's different again. They were in Cleveland. Steve, I remember now that we were presenting and you asked about the Euro Python 2021. Yeah, there was there is a high probability that it's going to be online. We don't know yet. We, it's something that we're discussing, but seeing what's happening and seeing the situation and seeing the situation in Dublin. There is a high probability that it's going to be online. We're also thinking about hybrid. I'm going to I'm going to go to Dublin anyway and I have a point with some Python people if my government allows me to if it kills me yes. I want you a bottle of the finest cherry that it is online. Would you like to take that bet. So to be honest, it's not like we are thinking on distributed. So you can, you can, you can be there with a small group of friends. The number that is a little bit of a government. Yeah, actually that's sort of bubble watch party thing is probably we're going to be next year. What we're discussing at the moment right. And, you know, if it's if it's a company that can all go to the board room in order of pizza or whatever. Yeah, we, but we better like be co-organizing this like for local groups if they want to set things up we will give them support so we can have encouraging them to have their own mini events at the local venue. Is that liquid? Tax issues. So we're going to try to investigate that that kind of set up a bit and we try to encourage people to do exactly that already for this year but I don't know whether anyone really did run that kind of setup. It's definitely something that you know, makes it makes the whole conference experience a bit more real so that if you sit together with a few colleagues let's say five or 10 people. And then watch the streams and then kind of have discussions and so on and I think that's makes a better experience and you know sitting in your. But unfortunately for like at least for most of the US, I mean companies like the security employees are programmed to, you know, basically detain employees if they find them coming into the office, right, at least in California. And if all of my meetup friends are scared of liability, nobody will do it now. But we can encourage a university group to do that as well, you know, like usually where people organize meetups so maybe like for Europe, people tends to go to people's office but maybe in US people go to universities, you know, like, or something like we work, you know, they can hire a venue or things like that. So, yeah, I think really up to the local organizers to arrange. The county of Santa Clara says it's illegal. It's not going to happen. No, but I don't think that we have any intention to do that if the coronavirus situation is still going up like this. Obviously we're thinking of when, you know, next summer when things are much, much better when like the government is allowing everybody to gather groups. The government, as what I said, but yeah, so we don't have the intention to just like do that against the trend of this. Yeah, we won't know till for another six to nine months anyway with the vaccines and all that kind of stuff. Currently Dublin is at the moment on the brink of maybe going to level four, you know. What? You know, it's level, you know, it's just. But the thing about this plan is that we can always go further or back, right? The option is the option is if things get a little bit better, especially in Ireland, there's a lot of co-sharing space, especially in the rural, more kind of outside of Dublin in the smaller towns and cities. They have all the kind of co-sharing remote working offices. So a lot of people are all about, I don't want to work from home, but there is a co-sharing space, you know, building in town. So they go there, you know, and they will meet other people. And so this is before COVID comes in. So I'm assuming I'm hoping that if things get a little bit better, that the local communities themselves are those co-sharing spaces like Port Arshad and Galway. There's one down in Cary as well. There's London, Sligo, and there's Waterford and all that. So there's lots of these co-sharing spaces that are pocketed around the communities around Ireland. And if they wanted to get people back in once it opens up a little bit more on things that get a little bit better, this might be one type of event that I say they'd be really happy to host because it's kind of an Irish stash. And it's kind of your big European conference and, you know, and it's meant to be in Dublin and Ireland. And I say that we, I said, no, it'd be an opportunity anyway to connect different communities that way instead of everyone traveling to Dublin, which we will love if, you know, everything was all, you know, nice and stuff. The point is not still like not that favorable next year. Yeah, that's a great idea. Thank you. So I'm just thinking, I know tons and tons of co-locations incubators and they're all dying to death and we could probably get in the bay area, could probably get the place for free if we said we're going to bring a ton of people. No, and the way you would do it is you say everybody has to go get a COVID test and days before and show the certificate and you have a tracing list and the stat you have a sign-in sheet of a tracing list, all that stuff, but you could probably get the facility for free. And they'd be happy and we'd be happy. So that's, I think that's a good idea. So, more questions. Going back to the, ask me everything. Can I mention the, for the follow-up on the best practices for online conferences in 2021, maybe you want to carve out a session at Pajamas. And we can get the European and the American and the Asian folks all talking about. And I was the onion, sorry. When you thought of it? It's on the 5th of December. So it's kind of like we have another separate organizing team. So it's not your Python thing, but yeah. So we may, we may work together with Python Island to do that actually. Now we're in the kind of discussion about that. So, so it would kind of be like an event kind of by Python Island but also organized by a team of volunteers. Maybe we can have some kind of panel discussion or so at the, at the event and then, you know, maybe you can put, could you put the details into the chat so that we can have a link. Also, so pie pie Gotham in New York City. Does it help if I could email, was it Nicholas is an email. If I could send a roll up of all online Python conferences I'm aware of, and we could syndicate them all. You could just reply the health desk tickets, and then we'll all see it. Yeah, I'm also organizing pyjamas, but I asked my organizing team to try to come today, but I think I'm the only one. Are they clothed? The pyjamas. Yeah, that was a pun. Sorry. If it was a pun, don't reply to the pun. I think Rebecca has a question. I do, I do. I was just wondering about the zoom license sharing and that sort of things. I haven't read anything properly about it yet, but we are about to buy zoom licenses to get ourselves sorted. So I just wanted to find out what that was about from the site. Do you want to talk to them? Well, we basically just want to, because we have bought these zoom licenses when we were preparing for the conference, and we currently still kept with we're keeping several licenses, just, you know, to run the sessions, etc. So we thought we might as well just share with the community in case like people want to post an event. So we have like, we have shared with like several meetups, including the Munich one and the Argentina and I think some others. Basically, if you are thinking of hosting an event, and we could just share these licenses with you, which is quite simple on zoom. And but it, of course, depends on your size and scale. So we if you're thinking of like 1000s 1000s kind of attendee with six tracks, then we we currently don't yet have that we're not paying for that just now. So we would then have to like think about whether we could support that, but it's like smaller events. Yeah, we're happy to do that. So I think also like just want to mention, if you want to host a really bug event or a zoom license that currently don't have that facility, you could also apply for a grant. Very good. I mean, because I think we're just running two tracks and currently have 250 attendees. And we've got a couple of weeks to the event. So maybe that's something to look into them. Because that year we went through. Yeah, we did the webinar with, I think there was discussion between the pro or business license and things like that. So who do I talk to visit you Rachel properly about that. Maybe offline. I think we, I think you could just set I think you already send us an email before. Yes. Yes. So if you just, you know, just talk to us on the help desk, because like we all can see it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, perfect. Actually, to save the money Rebecca, I'm just thinking that the suggestion we just had if people are watching in bubbles, even if it's two or three people, the pricing for zoom is per basically per note. It's not really. So we have one node is five people. We're still paying the same flat fee. All the prices jump big time sort of 250 500 attendees. Right. So if we get it depends a bit on what you want to, you know, the kind of setup that you want to have so for like two to 300 people. I would already recommend using the webinar license. It gives you a bit of trouble, you know, in terms of moderation, you know, people doing nasty stuff from the sessions and so on. Because the webinar license is more restricted to a set of panelists and you just just have a few panelists the panelists are typically your speakers. And then the attendees, you can only see their names, so you can turn off chat if you like. So you don't have that much to to run in terms of moderation. So that's what we did for the for the larger rooms that we had. And then if you have smaller sessions, let's say up to maybe 50 even more 60 people you can use a zoom, a zoom meeting, like what we are doing now here, we can actually then see everyone that creates a you know a better atmosphere if you want to do more interactive stuff. If you just wanted to talk, then the webinar is better. Now what we currently have is one webinar license, which can at the moment it can take up to 100 people but we can easily bump that up to 500. And then we have a number of zoom pro licenses which are on a business account so you get up to 300 people for each of those licenses. That all actually sounds like exactly what we were going to buy. So, yeah, I'll have I'll have a think in a chat with the board here and get in touch with you guys as well. So that's great. Thank you very much for your comments there everybody. Do you guys have like a worldwide pricing discount with zoom I mean if not it's time to hit them up and just say we're not serious to give us a Python worldwide pricing for all our peeps. We basically this is with organized by ourselves so we just got the business account for the for the European conference. You know, good enough for us. And, you know, the costs are not really that high anyway, because for when you do a conference you typically just get all these licenses for a month. Yeah, we also found that with with the licenses you can often get a pro rata kind of. You only pay for rata for the so they can even reduce the pricing, the prices even more so it's it's not really, you know, doesn't make a lot of sense to negotiate big discounts or anything. So in it, zoom is very competitive so if you, we were contacted for example by key key account manager and because when we you know we took down the licenses again they of course they ask why you're taking them down again we're just making nice money on you so why you're walking away. So there's definitely some room there for negotiations. If, for example, this would be set up in a larger scale kind of thing. Well, just in terms of like retaining people subscribers of the same hosting service now. So in San Francisco, Python, they switch, they switched over to hosting the monthly meetings. I don't think that's some special pricing. So, if you it's, it's kind of annoying you set up the whole conference infrastructure attract all the people. And then you switch back to whatever it is YouTube or something else for your monthly user group meetings how do you guys do that. Have you managed to sort of port your audience. We just have the annual event right now right so what we're doing is we're just check we're keeping the licenses because we want to first of all want to make it possible to share the licenses with the community. But also we're using them ourselves and for our meetings, for example, and the cost for these room pro licenses are not really high. I'm just, I'm saying in terms of stickiness like, you know, acquiring members subscribers as hard. So, nobody, everybody is using something different for their local user group meetings in cities or countries. Are they is anybody managed to join the two together. I think, I think so, I think everyone is setting up. So far I haven't seen any other, you know, options to basically share or get a shared license from someone else I think we're pretty much the only one doing this at this point. It was certainly be possible because you know if you have the licenses lying around why not just give them to someone else for a certain amount of time. I think the middle ground so by video.org are you guys also. By video.org has. Yeah, I don't know who's doing it right now I. Yeah. They've got site by pike on us penance moments Python pajamas 2019 and a bunch of things. It's a pretty good aggregator. So it's like the YouTube of Python conference video. And that's pretty good. Yeah, we're on that as well. At least they they tend to put up the your Python videos on that side to after a while. But I'm not sure who's managing it right now I know that the one person or two people that did it in the past they kind of stepped down because it was too much work and. But I think it's been picked up by someone else now and so it's. There is always someone adding their Python videos there because I saw their Python videos on that website and I send a proposed video there and it's just a full request in a gift. So you have to create a full request for them. But there's probably someone doing that for a reply from maybe maybe they are doing that. I just have a quick question in between because I see that people are leaving already. We are recording the session. I was just wondering whether you're all fine with putting the recording up on YouTube afterwards. So if you have anything against that then please let us know, then we won't otherwise we would just put it up on YouTube so that other people can, you know, get some feedback as well that way. Okay, perfect. So time for the last questions. I did have one quick one and was did you have to do much post production work on videos and that side of things. Yes. You know, it wasn't us doing it it was our we have a video recording company that we're working with every single year and they also typically they also do the recording for us at the in person event. Afterwards they do the editing and then and then upload everything to YouTube for us. What we did this year is we of course we did not have the then record everything because basically zoom did that for us already. But we gave them all the recordings and they did the editing so when, and they appreciated that very much because they don't have a lot of business at the moment so we did and they are currently preparing everything we are uploading the videos in batches right now. We currently have 90 videos online and in the end we're going to have something like 130 or so. Wow. Okay, no that's how we have thought oh we actually need to do something about that this week so starting to get a couple of quotes and so. I can put you in touch with the with the company I mean because the thing is remote I mean it would probably also work for you so. Perfect yeah if you could I would appreciate that very much thank you. I think it's a good idea because this company has been doing their Python videos for a long time so they have a lot of experience. That sounds great thank you. But yes there is a lot of pre-work and post-work I would say. I think it might be a lot more work in the next few weeks for me so. No, that's great thank you. Something just a recommendation where if you use the Zoom Cloud for the recording. We've had some reports before the conference that Zoom is, Zoom Cloud is not the most reliable thing on earth. So, some we had, I think it was Moshi who was mentioning that he's from Israel and they were using the they were using Zoom recording for recording their university courses and they actually lost quite quite a few of these recordings. So what we did is we basically had everything recorded on YouTube but then during the night after the after the event. We had multiple days so after the conference days we always downloaded everything from from Zoom Cloud and then on to you know FTP servers whatever just to have a backup there. But I would recommend as well. Plus if you have YouTube streaming then YouTube will automatically convert everything to YouTube videos as well. There's just one catch there. They will not convert live streams that are longer than eight hours. Right. So, as soon as your, your stream is longer than eight hours they will not automatically convert that to an archive anymore. And that's something that we basically found out the hard way so we lost the YouTube streams. It wasn't bad because we had the zoom streams anyway so we just uploaded those so. You can just also just record locally onto your machine on zoom as well so you don't have to rely on zoom cloud recordings. So obviously that that person will have to have a huge hard disk to capture all the videos but that's how I've been doing some of the stuff as well. Recording using zoom. Sorry. I just want to make make one comment there to give you a better idea of how much space you have to, you know, make available for the recordings. A typical recording of let's say one, one hour, one hour and a half is about like six gigabytes in terms of recording on zoom. Because zoom is doing more than one video right is one video for you have the view of the speaker, the attendees view the audio. I can, I can try to show you what that looks like. Just go there. Yeah, so like if you're using the cloud recording, then you would be recording set different views that mark would probably show you so you will have the speaker view on the gallery view. But if you're recording locally, I think you only gets. I'm not sure whether I don't think you get both views. So you are a little bit limited, I don't believe. And also, so it sort of depends on the view. How much. So the size also depends on the view if you have a lot of people. If you're doing this gallery view was a lot of people obviously the size will be bigger than just two people. And also something important to mention is, if you take a look now to the list of participants, you can see that the recording icon is in all the co-hosts. So I have a rocket mark to Martin. And that's quite handy because we were changing the host right during the conference. So you turn on the recording at the morning and then you forget about it. And at least you only need to have at least one co-host one host in the zoom meeting or webinar for the for the meeting to be recorded. And that's that's really good because if someone is going to for any reason. And then there's no problem because there is always someone else. So that's that's a nice feature because otherwise you would depend on the internet of the person that is recording. But lastly, like, if you also want a local recording as backup, then the co-host or the co-host or the co-host cannot make a local recording. So you would have to have a designated person to do your local recording backup, which is a bit odd. I think we could do a whole session on that, you know, because, because the setup this recording set up with zoom is a bit complicated. I just want to show you this is a typical recording as you can see here it's about one hour 47 minutes, and then you get different views recorded. So you get a speaker view, which only shows the current speaker that you have a gallery view, which shows all the speakers that you have. This is a shared screen so this is when when you do a presentation zoom always does screen sharing so it doesn't really matter which which tool you're using whether it's PowerPoint or liberal office or whatever. What else is it simply takes the screen content and then streams that to the audience. So this is these are recordings with the screen content. These are recordings without the screen content and then you can also get just the screen and just the audio. I'm showing this because this is actually quite useful for the editing company, because then they can post edit everything and take these different views and put them together again in a different way than what you, but what zoom automatically does for you, which is often better because the, you know, the, for example, the webcam may might cover something on the slide of the speaker. Yeah. And the editing company can fix that for you. Right. That's great. But then what we always do is this is the. This is these are the edited videos so they always put a slide in front and then they have the, you know, the sponsor slide here and then the talk. Switch that off. So what we typically do is we have this kind of staging slide, as you can see here in the background, and then the editing company takes the webcam view and then puts in the screen share view over here. So that doesn't overlap. And then they also, you know, the look at the content and then sometimes they they edit things in a different way. So for example, for the q amp a afterwards they then switch to a different view. I think this is how it looks afterwards. That's really helpful. Thank you. Okay, so I think we have some people are really living. I think we are ready to close. Thank you so much for joining. This was a kind of experiment for us. So it's a learning process. I'm really happy Rebecca Francesco really but that you're planning to host even and we can help. Just write to us. Yeah, we'll see it and answer and discuss. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. I'll do the applause. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Bye.