 All right, I think I should start Hey everyone So I didn't make slides for this session because I Felt like you've already, you know spoken about hey Angie have a reserve the chair for you You're in you're in good company though So We have Angie and then catch my two co-maintenors for Drupal 8 I figured I would pull them in You know If you guys are cool with that so again, I've no slides for this session Because I've already spoken about Drupal 8 in my keynote. There's been sessions By each of the initiative leads, you know Angie just did the session on Drupal 8 as well I mean like we've talked about Drupal 8 a lot and so I didn't want to like You know talk about it again in a formal manner and instead I wanted to make it a real conversation Because it's a core conversation is the name of the track and so There's a few things I didn't want to say but I very much hope that people have questions for the three of us or for me Or for other people in the audience and they you know talk about things which are on your minds And let's see how it goes so before I start Wanted to maybe do a quick brain dump about how I'm feeling you know and so I'm feeling really well And yeah And I think every Drupal development cycle goes through phases Like in the beginning of a Drupal development cycle People are very nervous because nothing seems to happen. It's like why is nobody working on code and reality is most people are Upgrading their modules And so there is this angst But slowly but certainly that starts to change and momentum of development starts to pick up and so right now It feels like you know there's quite a bit of momentum You know big patches are being submitted lots of people are working on things And so you know a lot of great things are happening And that's because we're getting closer and closer through the you know code freeze date and because people are finally you know moving away from You know upgrading their modules to Drupal 7 to you know starting to look forward About what they want to do around Drupal 8 and so that's good I'm very happy with the momentum I'm also very happy with the issue queue and the way the issue queue is being managed and you know big kudos to catch Not only for not only for coming up with the You know with our new system of there being thresholds, right? For criticals and major bugs, but also for you know managing the issue queue so well and you know Angie and others as well So I feel really good about that However There's things that I'm worried about which I'll talk about in a second But but I do want to tell you between now and the next Drupal con we may feel different because what's gonna happen right now is You know there's gonna be more tension About getting things done before the code freeze date and that makes people a little anxious and because they're a little anxious You know the mood may change a little bit and that's what has happened historically And so I just wanted to give people a heads up That that may happen and I think we should maybe and maybe we can discuss this in this session You know, is there things that we can do proactive, you know in a proactive way to not only recognize That that is gonna happen, but other things we can do now while we're in happy zone that Could prevent some of that, you know stress and tension Before the code freeze day to to be less sort of maybe, you know, even go away So that's an interesting thing I think and it's a challenge to all of you to think a little bit about that I maybe make some suggestions It's gonna it's gonna happen because I'm I'm now in a position where I need to start saying no more often Right so in the beginning of the freeze of that development cycle everything pretty much goes like yep great idea Let's do this and let's do this But now we're slowly getting to a point where we need to be a little bit more restrictive as what we can still start like if There's a giant initiative that somebody wants to do while we need to carefully consider if it's still You know a good idea to do it at this stage because chances are we will not get it on It also All right, so that's one thing the other thing is even with regards to the existing initiatives, right? I think engine yours in your presentation you showed, you know, here's what we were planning to do Here's how much we actually got done and here's how much you still need to do and we actually need to do a lot of work There's a lot of work left And so that means that you know me and catch an angie and Other people need to start saying no a little bit more and that we need to think about what is a straight line from where? We are today to you know getting something done by the end of the code freeze and Sometimes we tend to go like this right or you know, we can do this and we can do this And so I think we need to start saying no to some of these things and here's one example And it's just an example. I don't necessarily want to call it out But the annotations patch that went in great work. I love annotations You know I've used some extensively in the past But technically speaking It's something which wasn't strictly necessary To do the things that we wanted to do we could have kept using info hoops For you know another release and so these are the kind of things that we need to carefully take in mind because the annotation patch Took quite a bit of time, you know several weeks I think three weeks or so of work and it took a lot of different people to review it to provide feedback And so it's actually taking away a lot of Our time and attention from other things which we could be doing which Arguably could be considered to be in the critical patch to say getting, you know, the symphony stuff in or getting web services completed And so one of the things I'll have to do more and more of as we get closer is to be more critical about these kinds of features If you want it if you want to manage towards this code freeze date now The big thing here is that I cannot do that alone neither could you know wepchick Gatch and I do this alone It's really if we want to scale as a community We all need to be Critical about these things and we all need to help say no to these things Because I can't go around and look at all of these issues and you know figure out we have this really necessary Is this nice to have and and so this is kind of a call to action to all of you people working on on you know core To be critical about the things that we are working on and it's I know it's difficult in a community Where people work on things that they're passionate about then we can't really tell people what to work on and whatnot, but We just need to be smart about it or we're gonna have a lot of stress and tension Towards the end of the code freeze and the feature freeze right because people are gonna say well We have all of this work left to do And so I think if we can try to avoid that That would be great All right, so another thing that I'm worried about is performance You know, we're adding a lot of things to core and it may affect How fast we can serve pages? At the same time I was talking to chicks is he here? I don't know You're hiding But so chicks came to me yesterday was all excited And he's you know, we all know chicks when he's excited, right? And we all we all like it but it was all excited but in it was very positive in a sense But like you know the issue with the issue queues are really well managed And he's like so what will we do between the code freeze and the actual? You know release date that we put forward because he's like well, there's only 20 critical bucks I mean we fix it in a month And then we have like five months left he said is that true chicks Do we have that on the record And So, you know me and I think there's a lot of truth. I mean, I don't think that's gonna happen That's what I told him I think there's a lot of things we need to work on and you know, hopefully We'll be in a better situation than we were before, you know before we had like over a hundred critical bucks But hopefully that will give us more time to work on performance as well, right? so So performance is something that I'm worried about other things you guys are worried about But I mean I have my thing so I'm worried about managing towards this release and making sure we work on the most important things And then performance these are kind of two things that I'm worried about I don't know catch or Angie you have other things to your point about is this on Yes, sorry I mean to your point about the fact that we're in a happy zone and we're soon to be not in a happy zone One of the things I'm kind of worried about is that we don't yet have in any kind of infrastructure in place for supporting Conflict resolution and things like that And I think the number of conflicts in the core queue even in the happy zone have been rising Just as passions have been inflared and and some people have Put this taxfully a a a creative expression of their anyway Some people just kind of like can get fixated on something and it's just like and we don't we don't have a process for For solving that other than like ping web chick or ping Randy Faye or whatever I'm a little worried about that And so I think the work that we've done in the governance You know stuff is really important to try and get that community working group in place before the unhappy season So that we have some sort of a structure to handle this I think the other thing is the We've got like a lot of we're trying to put as much infrastructure in as we can so we can use it But we're not really using a lot of things yet very much So we could end up in a situation where we have like the new stuff and then old stuff is still there Which we always do if you really saw the same with the entity system through seven We only just about use that For So that we don't have this like half ass like for things that One of them was added in 4.7.1 was added in 2.6.1 was added in 2.4.8. They all did the same thing And we still haven't ripped out the old one because we've never actually got to the Patrick did it so any any stuff that's like Not Which which gets back to which gets back to a question of what we're gonna do in between November and February and August and And that and the and the question that we discuss often and among initiative leads and all kinds of people who work on all kinds of stuff is that is That it would be good to have some more clarity on what's the kind of non feature thing for conversions things to conversion of things to the infrastructure that we're built in and And if you can provide examples of what you think that would be feasible there So that would help us focus on really the features or the infrastructure to build in and then we can do the conversions and the Resilator so I'm not getting to trouble but for me like what What I want to do ages ago was basically if we kept on the thresholds to sell out if we kept under thresholds We would gradually lower the thresholds during code like that freeze freeze And if we stayed under any old crap can get in while we're under Because it means we're doing well and we can still release and you can put API changes you a change stuff like that We might not do that, but what but I think if we're comfortable that we can release Then we should try to convert stuff because even if someone's module port gets messed up in March next year Like everyone's model port in September will be considered the easier So from my point of view like it we need to get tight and tight and tight up But we should right we're trying to get API additions into 2.7 and just give me a look I'm only giving you a look because I think your question was slightly different you wanted to know my Well, maybe it's not different, but it it's like Take CMI because I know CMI a little bit better CMI has a bunch of things that have to happen For example UI to convert or to do synchronization import export because the thing I told in the video isn't actually in core It's it's a patch that we rejected because it was so unintuitive I'm sorry And then another thing that needs to happen for CMI to succeed is we need to do conversions of all of the settings pages to CMI and I think the question was more like can we punt some of that kind of stuff until after feature freeze, right? Is that what you asked or yeah, there's a lot of intricacies there So those conversions turn out issues for a multilingual that might turn into features that we figure out we missing So I'm not saying that should be postponed I'm saying that that if if it needs to be postponed then then what what to what extent it's totally okay because So but I don't think we know yet, right? I think it's all gonna depend on How things are at when we freeze and you know if we're in really good shape I don't I personally don't think it's it's meaningful to release Drupal 8 sooner than we set for it You know, it's my personal opinion We can discuss that as a community obviously and maybe we should but So if you ask me right now, I would say if we're in really good shape You know we can keep adding features effectively and I think that's along the lines of what you know Catch is hoping for I think as well with a system and things like changing like a variable get to like a config get and stuff that It's like borderline API changes and we should just we should we have to get it done. So if We just have to call them my major tasks I think an important thing about so one thing maybe quickly introduce yourself and then ask your question so people know Okay, I'm Jess. I'm XJM Thank you and I Think that a thing that is different about the CMI conversions Is that if those don't happen CMI as a concept doesn't work whereas a lot of these other sort of like API cleanup refactor things that we want to do like the configurable stuff if if core doesn't use its own API for that like if if No types don't get converted. That's kind of crappy for DX But at the same time we can still ship with it So that seems to me like something that's much safer to do much later in the release cycle and I mean Do you agree with that? Because it and things that are being introduced for the initiatives that are like that are like new as part of their API I think is probably different from stuff. That's already a part of core that we're changing. So that was my And I agree and you know actually suggested that to come back to the annotations example for example I actually suggested that you know Annotations could have been it's a it's an example of something which could have been done later because I Mean anyway, you disagree or for annotations in particular. I would say that it it made Views conversion go a lot faster Probably but yeah, so the thing is there's always an argument to do something And yeah, it will make views conversion faster Right any questions from the audience because I could keep talking, but I really want to make this a conversation Doug Doug Green I already asked Myers this question. I'm curious on your take of it. I'm a little concerned that we don't I don't know who the major Corporate customer is going to be as a beta user, you know, we had so many bugs We found through examiner and aquia, you know gardens Baking this in early, and I don't know if we have anyone like that It's a good question. I don't know either Um anyone planning to use Drupal 8 early on Yeah, I think it's you know, we're a little bit too close I think But not too close. We're a little bit too far away from Drupal 8 being ready enough. I mean it's still a year from now Hopefully some companies will emerge fix so Because everybody's harping on this if you look at the state of core we have a couple hundred tests with about 40,000 assets and They consistently pass What I was referring to Dries yesterday was that last fall when we have introduced the thresholds and begin to Refactor Drupal very seriously. We made an agreement that we can comment out tests To get some re-factors in and open criticals for them to fix this was the process that we agreed on We never needed to do that actually So this is why I said that we are in a surprisingly good We are in a surprisingly solid state and this is why I believe that we are at a much better place than we were When we were doing Drupal 7 for example, it took about a year to get the upgrade path fixed Now we have a great pass a test and we have a solid upgrade pass So all those things that were hindering the 7 Cycle is not it's clearly not happening now It doesn't mean that we will not find new things But I think I still think that we are in a very good shape and that's because of the test that solid that always Now for a question Do we have any ideas of what we are going to do to stop patches getting committed from a needs review state? What do you mean by that question? Sorry? What we're gonna do to stop patches being committed from a needs review state instead of the LTBC state That that doesn't happen often does it I mean, I don't remember Do you have examples? I don't know Well, I think at the end of the day it seems like it's I mean I should give you an example, but I Think it happens ones out of a hundred patches not even I think Sorry But this was a particularly big one very recently because the bundled patch went in While I will actually when you committed it. I was actually reviewing it cat. So it was not our TVC. No So that I really would like that not to happen it whenever it happens It's really annoying. It's it's very it's hard enough to keep up with the RTB CQ But to keep up with the CNR Q in case it gets committed. That's impossible All right, so it's I look at these on a case-by-case basis. I mean, I I don't remember the details of the bundle patch Right now, but I believe it had been RTB C and have been worked on and I looked at it We looked at it together even with Angie and Alex and others and we felt it was good to go So, you know, we can always go back and fix things after it landed So and just to point out that Core committers generally are core committers because they were really kick-ass patch reviewers before so like I don't I don't necessarily think that That's us should be a rule that we can't commit something from needs review But yeah, if you see something that's fddup market back to needs work, you know We always reiterate on stuff that we and if there has been instances where patches were committed that broke things terribly Whether they were RTB C or not and then we roll them back. It's usually not a not a big deal Basically what I guess the the concern that I have is that we are only have three months left and we're doing some major changes And especially when we're looking at what's happening with the templating engine and stuff like that If we are in a good state where we only have, you know, that small amount of bugs, etc You know, is there a possibility or should we be looking at possibly extending that analysis time to kind of, you know Really work out what's happening like in regards to how the templating is going to work in scotch and how scotch is going to fit in with that just seems like there's a lot of work there and You know possibly need a little bit more analysis with that So it's a good question. So the question is really are we gonna extend our code freeze? I mean how confident are we that that you know because it's such a big change, you know, it really really is How confident are we that come three months time That we're gonna have and as I'm kind of more even just talking about the front end stuff Let alone, you know, a lot of what's going on there and just because of the all the interaction You know, how confident are we that we're gonna be able to be in a state where we're gonna have ironed out a lot of that So we don't end up with the Drupal 8 that's Got kind of what we want happening, but because we didn't get everything in there We're still having to have a lot of exceptions It's a tough one because I Mean we said a date You know that date has been set for a while, right? And I think it's our job to try and work towards You know that date and whatever date we said, you know, if we extend it There's gonna be other things which are at the face where you know, the team system is right now And it's always gonna be this discussion always It's just gonna mean these things get in but then these other things which we then started You know, and so I don't think I don't think that actually solves any problems It just you know allow certain things to get in but then it's still frustrating for other people in the end So like right now, I'm not planning to extend the Coetry's date Karen Yeah, I'm Karen Stevenson Karen Stevenson Karen s You talk about having like a big example site to sort of test things on and the other thing that really gives an Opportunity to test things as contrived modules, right? So when contrived starts converting a lot of times That's the thing that sort of flushes on the fact that something's not working. So my thinking is, you know And I don't know the best. I mean, it's one thing to just go tell everybody Hey contrived you should go get upgraded to d8 while it's changing constantly, which is really hard to do But just kind of any kind of thing to me and there's some big changes here And and I know as a contrived author that like until I came here I felt like I was completely losing track of where some of these things were going and you know So you've got to do this whole education process and get your head around what's going on and then and then do the work Of doing the upgrade so anything that we can do to support Contrib modules in getting upgraded to d8. I think we'll provide some good Testing of how this actually is working out in and this is actually a good time To bring it up as we were getting closer to code freeze It also means, you know, effectively once sorry feature freeze. I keep mixing them up But you know once we're feature frozen That may actually be a good time to start, you know Making sure things like code or module work again and like all of our documentation is in good shape to help people with those Migrations, so if you that effectively means You know that the maintainers of code or module this sort of needs to you know start working on Getting their module ready for Drupal, you know for Drupal 8 migrations So this is actually a good time to start, you know to Karen's point to start You know building up the machine To help, you know, well to help first of all 15,000 modules to be converted from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8 But then even bigger is to you know, we need to now educate tens of thousands of developers around the world on all of these changes and we need to You know make them symphony developers and so how are we gonna do this and it's a giant massive project and I Think it's another good reason why it makes sense to have a long code freeze frankly because it's gonna take people You know quite some time to to learn all about all of the changes and to feel To get to a point where they have enough confidence in their symphony skills and like I don't know It's just it's a gonna be a big process in my mind I don't know if you want to add something Angie or catch in terms of What we need to do there? You don't have to if you don't have anything Well one thing that would help support that a little bit is we thanks to the work of Jennifer Hodgden and a couple of other people we moved to this you know in the past when we tracked our API changes It was an enormous wiki page of doom that crass chrome when you looked at it because there was so much crap on it So now it's a little better It's like little nodes But the nodes also keep track of things like does this have a coder upgrade rule attached to it yet? And does this have the documentation updated and where does the documentation that affects this live? Is it theme or documentation? Is it site builder documentation and stuff like that? So I think there's a lot of people maybe in this audience as well as maybe listening after who you know You don't feel like you're one of the hardcore people that are in the core q24 7 and notice things like patches getting committed from needs review But you do care about Drupal 8 and you really want to help in some way these sort of infrastructure related tasks would be a really great Move so you know if you are able to port coder upgrade to Drupal 8 and start making little rules for each of the things in that list And start checking them off that's gonna completely accelerate the velocity of getting people to use Drupal 8 on day one And I think that I I think I can speak for the coder module maintainers and they say they don't want that responsibility Are they here by themselves? I see Doug and I know Stella is somewhere Sorry that Right so now Doug is the maintainer. Oh perfect So if you're interested in helping with that Doug is going to be leading a sprint tomorrow So you can help help help kind of get that infrastructure in place because it's extremely valuable if you want your work to have a big impact It's hard to have a bigger impact than helping hundreds of thousands of developers Contributive modules and custom modules and everything make the jump from seven eight more easily Question one of your things you brought up was worried about performance on Like how performant Drupal 8 is going to be I'm curious if right now we have tests that relate to like except Automated testing of performance and also for that on the front end side of it Doing stuff like a web page test automated testing and JavaScript testing unit because right now as far as I know Right, yeah, and yeah, so there is no real performance testing right now in an automated fashion It's something that we've dreamt of for many years to be honest like we've always talked about how great it would be To have continuous performance testing Install profiles For performance testing, there's there aren't any but there is a sandbox I've got what it's gone but either Pajibus or Mark's on around is the maintainer and there's stuff in there like there's a thing that will let you run like a Basically a simple test test and then get the XH off out from that So if anyone wants to work on that that would be really amazing because we want it for years and years We don't have it The chances of getting it on the test spot like usefully for Drupal 8 are low but having things that people could run locally would be good and Having it so that we have it like early in Drupal 9 would be good now like if we if we want it for Drupal 9 somebody to start working on it now and get it running and Like because that's that's it could take a year to really really get it going But like if if you care about this like manually Profiling core like I had a quick look the other week And we were running like 14 delete queries on every page because like a one-liner in the cashback end Like stuff like that still goes in so you just get get expert any page about find something open issues for it You know And if you don't know how to use it, but you do that's a good way to learn And I think it's actually a great way for people to get involved in Drupal. I mean, it's Can probably be a little a little bit challenging, but just profiling and you know performance testing Drupal core And you know finding things and then digging into code and like trying to figure out what why it is slow It's a great way to learn about Drupal And it actually builds up a great skill a skill that's much wanted You know, there's a lot of Organizations that need these kinds of people that can help them Make their Drupal sites faster. So it's a great way to to learn about Drupal It's a great way to build up some unique skill sets that many many people don't have so Next question and if we look today Drupal now is a built-year release between majors and It's not really until you start trying to build sites and there is a healthy amount of contrib modules where you start to discover that a lot of functionality in core is actually incomplete Take the contrib token module for Drupal 7 adding the list of available tokens and those kind of and also missing tokens in core Wouldn't it be good if those things can be added easier in point releases and not have to live in core So you already contribute Yes, I think it would be So the thing we're always balancing is We've became more relaxed over time, but we have a policy of You know once we have a major release of not breaking API's and you know making sure that websites can easily upgrade and so Early on we didn't allow for any new things to be added right now We do have a policy that we can add new features and functionality as long as it doesn't break existing websites and we're a little strict about that though because You know because we don't want to like You know, we don't want to break any websites basically when people upgrade You know going forward I think One conversation that I would like to have and it's not just today But like it's going to be quite the conversation is do we want to change our position on backwards compatibility? Like you know, and I'm slowly warming up to a model which Basically, maybe maintains backward compatibility for one release and so that gives us Potentially the best of both worlds where we can make API changes We don't need to maintain them forever. We need to maintain them for one release, right? And so Drupal 7 module would run straight on Drupal 8 for example however So we would basically the problem though is it would be more work for the core developers So we need to talk about these trade-offs Another advantage is if we did maintain backwards compatibility for a release We may be able to do more releases and that could actually get more core developers into Drupal And we could do maybe a yearly release or whatever You know rhythm we choose as a as a community and that would to loop it back to your question that would enable us to You know to make, you know, maybe bigger changes Right, I think it's it's a it's a it's a great topic. It's been an ongoing conversation I think it will continue to be a conversation. I don't think we need to resolve it now I don't think I would change our position right now But maybe as we wrap up Drupal 8 in those six months of what do we do? That would be a great conversation to have and then we know once we start Drupal 9 You know, we can implement the change like this if we choose as a community to pursue that I just want to chime in here one quick sec. Sorry chicks, but um Just to point out we have actually added a number of features to Drupal 7 We have actually filled out a number of missing holes in Drupal 7 We haven't done things like move the entirety of entity API module into core or anything like that But um, you know a lot of places where contrib is running up against you know shoot We don't even have a hook to inject right here so I can alter a I don't know a widget info or something like that and so we're like, okay Well, let's make sure that there's a hook there, you know And so we'll we actually do as contributed module authors hit problems as long as the issue gets to rtpc And it and it's and it doesn't break anything and we you know David Rothstein is amazing at telling he can prissy the future of any kind of wrongs are gonna have this stuff But he's really good at like analyzing that stuff And there's actually a number of things that we've we've committed to Drupal 7 to make that easier And we can do that because we have all the automated tests So I think as we go forward and project we can get more and more loose as we get more experience with it But I think right now I think we have the right balance between like we could add that but that might break other people's sites So we're not going to do that that has living to trip But this thing totally makes sense and the risk is very low so we'll move that in But it is pretty much case per case basis at the moment Chicks again. Yeah, so uh about The Drupal 8 people Drupal 8 contributors needing to learn symphony that I just want to reassure everybody You probably won't need to do it because most of the symphony things are not going to be Visible in a module level. We most likely did not get there Uh, what was it second thing? I begin to think about this and one thing that People actually or more like the companies people work for could help with is to have Free trainings for contrib All sorts because the training that the country bolster needs is very different from what the side builder needs And obviously most of them don't have the money for training and they need training because if you look at most country modules So that was an idea people couldn't see his face, but So As for BC compatibility actually Drupal 9 is probably I just wanted to say Before you That 8 is not a good day, but 9 is probably is because we are getting to the point Where the code is not the spaghetti it was so That that's all I We couldn't do it just wanted to say that we couldn't do it before because the whole code was so interconnected That you change money api and everything breaks. So it was really impossible to do bc so far Thank you. Good point Ryan, I had a question about views in core basically. Okay. Um I actually like this in core, but it's one of the things that gives users a surprising amount of capability to shoot themselves in the foot and it's been kind of nicest and contrib because There's a thought that when you download Drupal core anything you can click together in Drupal core should perform and that's Drupal's job to make that happen Clearly that's not true for views. You can make things that perform very poorly has been any thought to adding hooks to allow either To allow either can trip our core to give users guidelines on either how to write views or a very large set of examples on common views for sites I think I think chicks wrote a module that tells you if you have bad joins in your views So, um, I don't know Does that work chicks? No It never detected any bad If the module exists in my bled you mean like an actual like in core You make a really bad view and it says you look what you've done Perhaps or at least examples because you can never like a user will always be able to find a new way to do something poorly But examples for like common idioms, and I know that the work for getting views innocent But at least getting the discussion started about it. I hadn't heard it I mean It would be cool to have like an issue To discuss whether that would be like a feature we could add like I would think probably Um, but um, we want to talk about how to do it Because like big, you know, you make a view and you get big red warning and it says your view is going to destroy your site And they guys like they've got like three notes of four users Um, but yeah, I mean, but something or at least or at least making sure it's still easy for jigsas module to work on, you know, but um But also, I mean, but I mean, there are things in corner perform really badly that you can you can enable statistics module And form module and stuff like that. Well form is actually not as bad as it used to be At a thousand fields yet, so But nothing compares to Something that you would expect to be able to do No, I'm not saying it's a technical issue. It's uh, it's a I think in general, it's a great principle though that we should try and protect users from You know destroying their sites So I think I'll you know, we'll take it as a call to action and hopefully we can have a discussion around it. Um, mark Yes, um, just a comment about the uh, the automated performance testing idea So like I said, we looked at that a little while back. Um, and doing some of the profiling on Drupalite so far on the big patches I found It's a little more complex than what we would get from that. Um Because it's not as if we have patches going in and we can say that we had this performance regression and it's because of this patch It's we have incremental changes going in like so say the kernel So we bootstrap much farther to even instantiate the kernel to get functionality that we had earlier in the bootstrap before So right now we have a much much larger code path When that went in but it's not to say when you look at that issue It's like well, we have a 10 percent regression. We need to or we can't put it in It's we just need to make sure to follow up and take out all of the old code We don't need anymore because like working on the hdp cache there. I found there's a lot of code there That's really redundant with what's in the kernel Yeah, so I have a I open an issue this week Which is like a critical task to fix sort of performance regressions one way or the other So what I want to try and do is list the issues that we know Like regress performance and then list the issues that are going to fix them in some way Whether they're related or not necessarily So that we can track that because we because we are we are like I'm not only committing patches that have performance regressions And sometimes I'm knowingly But it's I mean it's exactly true that We've put stuff in and then we might not even use it and we don't have a performance regression until it's used by Every core module like six months later so But like I really don't want jupy 8 to come out and be southern jupy 7 which was southern jupy 6 which was southern jupy 5 Like it would be nice to actually get or any I think if we go If we go all the way through what we've done Then we there's so many wonderful things that we'll be able to do to make people's sites blazing fast like if I find the end performance and So like just serve side Forms and scale everything could be lovely if we get there So but like as we're getting closer to code freeze I'm quite happy to bump the issues that have to finish this to not have regressions To critical tasks because if not we have like nasty nasty performance regressions in eight months So but so please help I'll put the issue up somewhere And if people can help like identify What what we do then we can like Figure out where we really need to focus on like performance over there And maybe we can make it part of our default You know workflow like we have these meta issues like you know one issue one thing broken down into 10 issues Maybe there should be And step 11, you know after everything got in Like you know step 11 is to do performance testing and Maybe we can start by tracking it better I don't know All right Chicks I'll come back. Yeah, I just came back up But apparently I don't remember this module that I have written The generalized And the dust check index is I I mean it's a drop off six module But it's about 59 of code. It's trivial to 4 to 8 and what's the name? Avoid avoid Great All right, thank you My name is Sebastian Osio. Um, I have a question Regarding how well you think you're doing engaging people to come into court The thing is, um, I know Drupal a year now maybe more and I think the the Curve to learn the Through the website is a bit too steep and I think it shouldn't be it's not actually that difficult, but maybe Um, I haven't found the ways through the website or through the initiatives That are really like what you say in the german fork home like Preparing you to to be able to engage into into work That is really needed and everybody's asking for So I think we can always do better at this However, I do feel like we as a community are pretty remarkable in terms of trying to get people in through a lot of different things we do From tagging issues to organizing sprints and you know, jazz is a prime example of somebody who's Very passionate about getting more people into the door. You want to say a few things about? Okay, so I'd like to point out specific things that we are actually doing to try to engage new core contributors Um, one thing is there is we do office hours Twice a week in the Drupal IRC channel The premise is that anyone Who has some Drupal side of the experience can come and get a self-contained task to work on an issue in core So all they have to do they don't have to have any special skills And it it won't be any special particular issue It might be something that's as trivial as you know, like clean up the comments in a patch But that gives them a chance to interact directly with core developers Um, another thing that we're do we're do actually doing this is a great lead in and thank you I wanted to mention something we're doing a sprint on friday. Um, that is if you haven't contributed to core before and you're interested Um, we have a free training that um, Addison Barry and the Drupalized need team are doing to train people Sort of bootstrap them and this is what these are the tools that you need to contribute to core Here's how you navigate the core issue queue. Here's the kinds of things you can work on And we're going to be doing more of those trainings. We've done six so far This will be the seventh and there'll be there's one today. We'll do another one at bad camp and so on Um, there's another thing I'd really like to highlight is um, the Drupal ladder initiative A Drupal ladder.org is the url. This is a program where It's designed for local user groups to make part of their their weekly meetups be Learning how to contribute to core and then taking a particular issue in core and working on it as a user group so that that's like there's like three different paths that we can take and um I guess sort of making people aware of them is is a big deal because I mean All these things all these things have been here for people like a year now all these three things that existed so Um, if anyone has any suggestions on how to promote that better and how to make people more aware That's great. But I guess the biggest thing is word of mouth, you know Tell go to your local user group and say hey come to office hours. Hey, do you want to try this Drupal ladder thing? And I'm sure that the people who are working on that would love to help you If anyone has any ideas So how amazing is that that you know people like Jess and you know, I think brian's brian here from the Drupal ladder I mean that they're all like, you know doing this this work to get more more people And I think it's very unique Yeah Follow up don't applaud for me I would really like it if there would be more people who want to help mentor this stuff because I I like to work on core myself so If you're interested if you have some experience contributing to Drupal It doesn't have to be that you don't have to be catch But if you have some experience working in the Drupal core issue q, please ping me and I would love to help you Help me So you can if you have like two hours a week that you can answer someone's questions on irc Or on the other hand, you know ping brian if you'd like to have more information on how to how to set up a ladder for your local user group So this is not a closed box if you If you see this as a problem, please come and talk to us and you can help us mentor new contributors if you have two hours a week I'm xjm Also Does anyone know how much time you've left 10 minutes all right any other questions There must be more questions don't be shy Do you have a question? Actually not for you for the audience So so I I work at aquea. I work with trees I work with gabore and jesse beach and I work with whim lears and for the past three months We have been working our asses off On the spark distribution, which is for drupal 7 and right now But the goal has always been for spark to be You know recommending authoring experience improvements to drupal 8 core And we're using drupal 7 as a vehicle for that In order to allow people to actually try this stuff on real sites and and stuff like that I would love like we've done a lot of sessions. We've done a lot of buffs. We've had some great discussions here I would love to get a sense from the room as to whether or not We have agreement that this stuff would be fucking awesome in core And we can go balls out trying to get it into drupal 8 or if we should stick to contrib Does anybody have any comments on that So All right quick poll Yes, we need to do a poll All right Um, I I haven't seen many of the workshops But I've looked at some of the videos online and I've downloaded the demo thing and had a play and I think it is incredibly awesome I just want to say that and I would be incredibly excited to see that innate But I also am concerned if it's too much work and we don't get it in there Do we have anything and so I was talking to um, Nate quick sketch of his here about the sort of like the low end version of improvements You know, is that you know, if we if if we can't make if we can't have all of the wonder of spark, what's plan b I think the all of the wonder of spark requires a lot of the Architecture stuff that has to happen for other initiatives anyway So it would be a way of funneling in resources to drupal 8 that don't exist right now because they're on drupal 7 Um and very frigging smart people that are awesome Um, so I think that the plan b would just be you know If we if we work our butts off and we try and get all of these things like blocks and layouts in place and filter system improvements in place and other stuff and then we get to the end and Um, we we don't quite have the the whizzy wig patch ready yet or this that and the other thing They would they would continue living contribute for drupal 8, but I think I don't know I would really like to work on it um Do people agree? Yay Okay, does anybody want to hit me with a tomato? Okay We'll have a tomato bar Yeah, did you want to mic it or True. Yes. All right, thank you Any other questions Sorry, it's not a question again, but it kind of is so in your keynote you talked about the problem of Core developers sustainability core contributors sustainability in general, which is something that I think concerns a lot of people And so I'd like to repeat something that alex said in One of the core conversations earlier this week, which is if you have a company that wants some of this stuff like spark like um configuration management like Fusing core for example, um, please encourage that company to um either donate money or develop or time or any Kind of thing if they get in contact with the initiative lead for whichever initiative Um, every what you hear over and over again these core conferences every single initiative lead says Please we have these huge blockers. We need more help So if you can talk to the people you work for and get them to help Donate either your resources or or financial resources or whatever that would help a lot too anyone else No more questions A few minutes left One more thing on like just the uh the forthcoming Freakout pays like can we all just like make a pack to each other that we're going to remember that even when We're back behind our computers and we're all little blue nicknames on the internet and stuff like that that You know, please remember this moment and we are all sitting together. We are all people We are all human beings We all really wanted drupal to kick ass and try to keep that in mind because the tensions will raise We are going to get into fights with each other But let's just really try our best to treat each other with respect and treat each other well And know that no matter what the disagreements about we all want what's best for drupal Thanks All right, before we wrap up maybe one more thing, you know, raise your hand or stand up if you actually have a patch in core seven eight whatever it is Cool So that's a lot of people how many people have not contributed yet to core yeah do it on friday All right I will personally review your patch And see if we can commit it I may commit it from the needs review state Just kidding. All right. Thank you