 Aloha, my name is Roger Epstein and I have the pleasure of being the host today of the Art of Thinking Smart. My background is as an international business consultant and before that I was a corporate tax lawyer with the government and in private practice for 50 years. I started when I was five years old and today I have the great pleasure of introducing our guest and having an interview with him, Matt Talfatee, comes from a very different background and not only has Matt come from a place of making very bad decisions to making good decisions, he's turned his whole life around to being so helpful to others and to help others make good decisions. So it's my great pleasure to have Matt visit with us today and to talk to him about his background and how he's gone from making bad decisions to good decisions. Matt, welcome. Oh, pleasure to be here. Matt, you grew up in Kalihi and your father was a minister. Yes. What was your original, what was the household like and what was going on when you were a kid? Well, the family of six, I mean six children, our parents, myself and three of the other siblings were pretty much neglected and abused at home. So your father, even though he was a minister, he wasn't really living that in the house. How did that cause you to act out as you grew up and were a teenager? As a little child, I always wanted to feel a part of something good but not knowing how to do that, you know, every time I would try to turn, you know, for some help and some comfort, you know, I would quickly get the backhand or, you know, all the negative stuff. So, you know, it kind of made me afraid to ask for help. Yeah. So how did you first get into making bad, really bad decisions? When did your criminal behavior really start? Started as a teenager. 13, 14? Yes. When I just used to watch a lot of these guys in that area, the Kali area where my father's church was at, I would see them enjoying themselves, you know, and just doing a lot of fun things which I thought, you know, they was trying to be a part of something as well. So I quickly introduced myself, you know, got involved with them not knowing that they were part of a gang, you know, so that's how I got involved with the blood gang in the Kali area, right at that housing. Yeah. Yes. And so what sort of things, once you got involved with the gang, what sort of things did you do and what bad decisions were you making? Well, I first started, you know, drinking alcohol, which later on led to cocaine and so forth like that, but the bad decisions I made, I was just known for one of the violent ones. So I was mainly used to go and represent our place and our colors, you know, to fight with our rival things. So that's what I used to do a lot was I'm going to our enemy territory, you know, and getting to fights, you know, but as far as the criminal activity was more for stealing little things, you know, which escalated to bigger things. So you were in prison six times, you said? Yes, but this was when I just turned that out. What was it? How old were you when you? Oh, 18. At 18 was the first time you went to prison. What did you go to prison for? That was for a stolen vehicle. Stolen vehicle. And this was all part of the gang activities. And and you were you were drinking and doing drugs. And and did that was that part of your decision making? What was going on that caused you really to besides a neglect and your father's abuse, what was causing you to to do these kinds of things? Well, just trying to feel a part of something which I feel that a family, you know, that sense of being a part of a family, you know, my my peers, they made me feel that way. Right. I was accepted in their site, even though he was the line of negativity, you know, but that was something I was searching for. That's why I kept drinking and just trying to be a part of this group. And what about the drinking in terms of your own personal self? What was going on with you that the drinking was good, you know, was something you like besides being part of the gang personally? What was the drinking about? Well, it was more about numbing the pain that I was going through. Yeah. The neglect and so forth that I felt, you know, not receiving at home. So that would help me to, you know, deal with that issue of not being a part of something, you know. Even your emotions would come up. Yes. And you didn't know how to deal with it. Yes. And so you drank and took drugs and that numbed it for a while. Yes. But what happened after that? Yeah. Every time it's sober up, I mean, like from now, like, well, what I learned is that the problem is still there. Right. So I never resolved a lot of the issues and a lot of my anger issues, my neglect, I took it out on other innocent people. Yeah. You were sort of acting out what you were feeling inside. Yes. Causing you to make these bad decisions. Yes. So can you tell me, again, what was the big crime that sent you to prison for four and a half years? Yes. Well, you got to the point where my last episode with my father is where I entered the church while he was on the pulpit and 17 years old, you know, coming in all drunk, high, you know, with my colors and so forth. And my father walked out from the pulpit and beat me up. Wow. Yes, beat me up right in front of the congregation. And that's when I ran away from home. So I got heavily into the gang. You know, like I said, I was one chosen to go out and fight the enemy territory. So I ended up beating up a man, you know, went into prison again for attempted murder, got released, supervised release, you know, to my father then. And then one year later, 88, I got into a fight, another fight and I ended up killing a man. Well, yeah, well, I know it's been a long time since then, but you actually killed a man and you were an adult at that time and you were sentenced to life in prison. I was facing life in prison. 20 years old. I'm right back in prison. Wow. Yeah. Right after getting out of his attempted murder charge, and now I'm back in for murder, facing life in prison. And when you look back on it just to recap before we talk about all the wonderful things you've done with your life after this incredible, difficult upbringing, you were really trying to cover up these emotions you felt. Yes. Drinking and getting involved with people who then you could feel love from or some camaraderie. Yeah. What you see is really the fundamental basis, if I'm getting this right, of why you made these terrible decisions. Yes. Okay. So now you're in prison and let's talk about how you turn your life around and become the executive director of First Lab. Okay. Where did it start? Where did the turnaround start and the good decision? After I was tried, they sentenced me and they gave me a, convicted me of manslaughter, which was the lesser charge. Yeah. So out of that manslaughter, it carries 10 years. I did four and a half years, but not knowing how to handle these emotions that I still was feeling, you know, taking a person's life and so forth. I got released in 93 and still was doing all the criminal activity. All right. I went right back to alcohol and drugs, you know, and so forth. I wasn't getting nowhere, you know, until that day in 96 where there is these three big dudes called to take me out. So in the club that I was hanging out, you know, three big men, you know, came, they hit me with a beer bottle, you know, busted it on my face. Can we see your scar? Yes. And they busted it on my face. They drove me out, you know, of the club and beat me up terribly and left me for dead in the gutter, you know, at that same era that I grew up, you know, so. And then what happened? There was this group of men, you know, from Weatherlife Christian Center, you know. I guess my cousin who was part of them, you know, told them about my life, you know, and how they could help, you know, to share. But like I share my experience, I did not, you know, have a good upbringing in church. So I was skeptical at first, you know, but they kept coming every night, you know, to share some good words with me and I decided to give it a shot. And I'm in 1996, I remember just attending that, you know, that church service. And that's how I remember, you know, Pastor Art sharing is that if any of you never felt loved before, I'm here to tell you about one man who loves you. And that totally changed my life in 1996. So ever since that day, I started being a part of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, doing good things and just hanging around with all the right people. Yeah. Yes. So you, you, you changed your inner feelings through a sense of love through this religious experience. Yes. And outwardly you began to associate with different people. Yes. So here's a hardened criminal. One might say a hardened criminal at age 29, been to prison six times, murdered someone, manslaughter. And now you change your life around by getting a sense of worth, of self-worth, and by associating with different people and going to AA, Alcoholics Anonymous. After the break, we're going to talk a lot about what you did, how you went from there to form First Lap, which is a house, would you call it a halfway house, or a residence for prisoners coming out of prison so that they cannot go back and do what you did when you came out. Yes. It's considered a faith-based transitional facility. A faith-based transitional facility. Yes. And talk about your emotions a little bit before, before we go there. We said that it was hanging out what really hurts you and what you see from others, what you know about this, because you've experienced it. It was the trauma that you felt, the covering you, you're up your emotions, and the desire to be with somebody that gave you this love and comfort. Yes. That's what caused you to make the bad decision. So now you're at a point where that's changed. Yes. And so the three things were basically, you began to get a sense of your own self-worth. What did you do with the emotions? Well, now I started to find that I could trust other people, you know, rather than my gang members, you know, not knowing, you know, that one is something right. Yes. So I found people in my life who started to mentor me, and I would go to them to, you know, ask for help and so forth and that, and it helped to really build my life, you know, spiritually. So you could go to them for support when the emotions came up that were troubling you instead of going to the alcohol drugs? Yes. Yes. And I still do that, too, today. You still have a lot of people in your life that help you and mentor you and support you? Yes. Well, that's great. Well, we're going to take a break. Okay. And then when we come back, I want you to talk about, please, all what First Lap does and what the programs you are and the steps that they learn about how to make good decisions. So we'll take a little break now and we'll come back in just a few minutes and we've talked about how Matt made bad decisions and what caused that when we get back, we're going to get his incredible insight in how to make good decisions. This is Steve Katz. I'm a marriage and family therapist and I do shrink wrap, which is now going to every other week all during the summer and maybe forever after. Take care of your mental health this summer. Have a good time. Do what's fun and take good care of yourself. Bye-bye. Aloha, Kako. I'm Marcia Joyner and I'm inviting you to navigate the journey. We are discussing the end of life options and we would really love to have you every Wednesday morning at 11 a.m. right here. Hi. I'm Kili Akina, president of the Grass Root Institute. I'd love you to join us every week Mondays at 2 o'clock p.m. for Ehana Kako. Let's work together. We report every week on the good things going on in our state as well as the better things that can go on in the future. We have guests covering everything from the economy, the government, and society. See you Mondays on Ehana Kako at 2 o'clock p.m. Until then, I'm Kili Akina, aloha. Thank you. We're back at the Art of Thinking Smart. I'm Roger Epstein and I have a wonderful guest today, Matt Alfape, who turned his life around at age 29 and came out of prison, began to deal with his personal problems and founded First Lap, a lap for life after prison. Matt, tell us a little bit about First Lap. What does it do? It houses men for a minimum of six months, you know, come to get them connected, you know, with themselves, you know, finding their identity, which I find, you know, found, you know, myself through Alcoholics Anonymous. So we really push for the 12 steps that I've learned through AA to help to keep them clean and sober and not result, resort back to the criminal life and so forth. No, where you get, you get people from the, directly from the prison, they come right out. Do you talk to the prison? How do people learn about you and come while they're in prison? Working with the Paroling Authority, you know, they heard about what we do, you know, we have, because they're always looking for houses, housing for the men and the women. It's difficult right now, but we've been working with them. We just celebrated 15 years on Tuesday, you know, of housing the men. So we have a high success rate of men completing our six month program, moving on, you know, to live on their own, you know, and so forth like that. And we did so without no government funding. So I think the recidivism rate in Hawaii for men is something like 75, 80 percent. Seventy eight percent, seventy eight percent. And what about people that come through first lap? Well, what is your recidivism rate? Do you do, you know, last week check was 33 percent of them end up going back in 33 percent, end up going back in majority of them complete our program. Not of them choose to stay longer than a six month, you know, so it becomes like a home. Yeah, you know, them. So your your recidivism rate is is less than about a 40 percent of yes. So that's fantastic. So, Matt, let's go through the steps. First, you you you contact the prison or people hear about you and then they come there and they live in the facility. It's up in Palo Alto. Yes, does the prison work with you? Yes, actually, I go in and volunteer every week, you know, on Mondays at why I have a correctional facility and how I select my men is basically they write to us, you know, I send them back in application, you know, fill out to see if they fit the criteria and so forth like that. And then we go through that process if they are accepted or not. I contact their parole officer, you know, and let them know that they they're welcome to come to our place, you know, so that's how we start the process. What kind of crimes have they committed? Generally, I mean, is it that anyway, we took anybody from murder, you know, to someone who just for property crime or just. And what's the criteria? Why would you say they apply? Some are accepted, some aren't. Yeah, the only two that we can take is for sex offenders. Because it was recommended by our neighborhood board. You know, so I presented it to them and that's the only thing that they asked where it was sex offenders and the mentally ill. OK, OK, so they have to show that they have some capability of mentally taking care of themselves. Yes, yes. OK. So they come to your place and they have a place to live. You have how many do you have facilities for 20 people? Yes, right now we're working on what we have the permit that allows us up to 31 men to live in that facility. But we always kept it at a, you know, a maximum of 20 because there's just myself and an assistant, you know, over there to really watch over these men. Yeah. My assistant lives with them 24 seven. And so when they come in, they live there. Yes. And what's the routine you start them on? Well, usually the first 30 days, which is one of the things that we ask them 30 days, you're not allowed to go anywhere. You know, we're going to escort you to all your necessary appointments and so forth like that. You know, within those 30 days, we get them involved with our Alcoholics Anonymous meeting that we do every Monday night. Sundays and Wednesday, you know, fellowship at the World of Life Christian Center, you know, to help them on the spiritual side. Hopefully they can find a sponsor like I found a sponsor, you know, through that 12 step meetings, you know, when they go to the 12 step, they do the regular Alcohol Anonymous, Alcohol Anonymous program. And then part of that is to find a sponsor. Yes. Somebody that they can turn to regularly. Yes. Rather than alcohol and drugs. Yes. Yes. Well, what are so would you say that making right decisions is is being in the company of of of people positive and the right people. Yeah. Yes. And it's dealing with your emotions in a positive way. And a lot of that is the 12 step process. Yes. Can you just go quickly through the 12 steps? I can just say like one, two and three, which is the basic one that we get everyone started on is the one is admitted we were powerless over alcohol and drug and that our lives had become unmanageable to. Sorry, I can't really think that our lives has become unmanageable to was. Sorry, I can't really think of it. Give me three is made a decision to turn our will in our lives over to the care of God as we understand him. Yeah. So you're not talking about any particular religion, but you do feel that a belief in some higher power. Yes. It's a fundamental part of your program. Oh, yes. OK. What about steps for for me to searching and failure, more inventory of ourselves? You know, we really searched and looked at what's going on with us. Honest evaluation of ourselves. OK, fine. And that's where we encourage that they find a sponsor so that sponsors going to help to take them through that. Who are all those steps? Yeah. And I can really think of the step right now. But then I know, like for one of the steps that really was powerful for me, you know, was step number nine made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so with injured them or others. And that part helped me to heal of a lot of the the pain that I was dealing with. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Quick, quick story about how you reconnected with the victim that you murdered sister and the brother that was in prison. Yes. Well, the sister of my victim. Yeah. The pastor that mentored me to the youth ministry. He started his own church, you know, and then he called me up and he knew what I was doing. And he said, Matt, you know, will you be willing to come and be a speaker at our program on talking about forgiveness at his church? And I said, sure. And say, oh, but, you know, I want to bring the victim's sister. Then I say, sure, I'm open to that. And sure enough, you know, we went, we shared about forgiveness and how we were able to respect each other and forgive one another for, you know, our past, you know, feelings and so forth. And, you know, it was a powerful thing that day, you know, we were able to become, you know, friends and so forth and keep contact. And the very next day, I get a call at my facility and it was from her brother, our younger brother. And this is the same brother that killed my brother. You know, we were part of the same gang. We're proud of that, you know, that and so forth. So this history between your two families. Yes. All Samoan. Yes. So same ethnic background, same problematic families. Yes. This man that you killed, he was he was one of several people that killed your brother. No, you killed him. Yes. And then his brother has killed your brother. Yes. And the man that called you was one of the people that had killed your brother. Yes. And he heard that you and his sister had come together in forgiveness at the church and he wanted to tell you how it had moved him. Yes. So it all kind of, it's a synchronicity is incredible. You all created these horrors in each other's lives. And then the forgiveness allowed all of you to kind of come back to a place of peace. Yes. So, Matt, what other programs? That's the first 30 days at First Lab. And when you say they can't go anywhere without you, it's just you and your assistant. How do you get 20, 30 people around? Well, majority of them within the 30 days. That's one thing our program is really recognized is by then they're employed. A lot of times when they release a parole, they're stipulated you got to get a job within 30 days. So that's difficult for the guys. And that's why it's important. The first 30 days we get them involved spiritually with the AA program and church and so forth to help to build that self confidence that you're going to get something. And almost all of them gain employment. So usually after that, they attend what they can and they stay connected to the things that we teach them. And they're still living in your facility. Yes. Do you have any programs at the facility where you besides the ones we just talked about that are kind of outside the facility? Do you have meetings in the community meetings? Do you? Yes. Definitely. I get called to ask to go speak at different churches to share about what First Lab is about. At the First Lab program in Palo Alto, at the residence, do you do anything with them? Do you meet on a Monday nights? Do you do you have personal counseling with them? Do you or everybody just kind of live in there? Yeah, everybody just living there. But after the first 30 days, they're usually working. You know, we follow up with the parole officer to make sure they're in line and doing everything. You know, they call me up to see if they have any violations and so forth like that. So I pretty much, you know, communicate with their PO, you know, from then on. Yeah, the program I can say that's really helping, you know, for us to get out is we do a lot of volunteer work in the communities. I started a group called Peacemakers in 2004. So that is mainly for our communities. But, you know, I'm centered on focusing on the youth. And so that they won't be violent like you were when you say peacemakers. Yes. And also, Matt, you're on a committee under the Hawaiian, under the legislature, Hawaiian committee in the legislature to work on prison reform. Yes. It's called the Correctional Justice Task Force. You know, led by Justice Wilson and a lot of big leaders. And so your hope is to have more facilities like this and more prevention work like you're doing with the youth. Yes. Instead of just incarceration, which you've already told us your story and a couple of other stories are just coming out and going right back into the same thing. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So hopefully, you know, we can get them. We're looking for alternatives to incarceration. You know, not everyone would go on violent crime and so forth. Like just for petty things, you know, rather than sending them to prison, which cost us, you know, $145 a day per inmate. Yeah. If we do the figures, comes almost $300 million a year is what we pay. So, so we can't get into it today. Maybe I'd love to have you back, maybe with a couple other people to talk about reforming our criminal justice system to being one of restorative justice and prevention. Yes. And that's for another day. You've been a terrific guest. It's really my great honor to know you and to be on your board. And I hope we'll be really accomplish all the wonderful things that you have to go. You're still a young man at age 49. 49, just a baby. Thanks a lot, Matt.