 Hey everybody, welcome to Linuxcast. I'm your host Matt. And I'm Tyler. Welcome to the Linuxcast this is where we talk about Linux-y things. That's why there's Linux in the title of the show. It's actually the name of the channel as well, which you know I've you know I've considered changing the name of the channel just so that the podcast could be its own thing because it doesn't really make sense for a YouTube channel to be called a cast all the time but at this point I've pretty much it's the brand to be like changing the name of DistroTube it'd be really weird so it turns out it's going to stay the same but anyways I'm a little rambly today because I have things to say also words are f-ing hard so expect me to ramble and awe and I'm so sorry Nate I'm so so sorry. This is going to be bad man this is going to be bad I'm just going to say it alright anyways so today we're going to be talking about a fantastic topic that's sure to piss no one off ever everyone will agree with the things that we have to say today but before we get into that we're going to talk about what we've done this week in open source but I'm actually before before we do that before Tyler goes I'm going first because I got some shit to talk about so first just as a rant about OBS I love OBS OBS is a fantastic piece of software it's the shining example of what open source can do for a broader more well-used community I think that more people should use OBS I think that it's awesome and you should contribute to it if you have some money throw them some money or do some contributing or do some documentation whatever it's a fantastic piece of software also it's a piece of shit also it's just there are little things in OBS that just piss me off mainly the biggest one is that your transforms don't stay the same like I don't know something we do this podcast once a week it's all I use this particular sync collection for I don't use it for anything else I just use it for when we do the podcast and every single week without exception I come back and the transforms are different and it's not just like because the class names of the windows that I'm capturing are different which they're not they're exactly the same every single week don't change the podcast name it's always called the Linux cast the room we're doing this in is always called the Linux cast so that doesn't change yet every single time I come in here and it doesn't matter it doesn't matter that the fact that the windows are actually the same size each week because I always have the same split just for this reason because if you have the windows of different size then the video is a different size in the discord window and then your transforms would then be different right but they're exactly the same size every week and yet every time I have to come in here I have to fix Tyler's transform because there's always a little green bar above him or you know there's a black bar along the side and it drives me bonkers it drives me absolutely nice like this can't possibly be that hard but you can't find like it's a yammer file it is a yammer file I'm pretty sure where all the stuff is sort of like a yammer file or something like that and it's not like I'm going in there and changing the yammer file midweek just to mess around with my transform it drives me bonkers and I wanted it to change I wish I wish I knew enough code to actually you know go fix it myself because apparently this is a problem that they don't see maybe it's just me maybe I'm the only one that experiences this problem but yeah that's that I hate it so much and it drives me absolutely fucking insane and I want to murder it with well like let's be honest anybody anybody who watches this podcast and the you know the like live part where we're doing it live the pre-show knows exactly how much you hate having to change the transforms and OBS literally every week literally like I told Tyler this before right before we start recording if we could just have one week I could just one week where I could open up OBS change to the sync collection that I always use and it just be exactly the way it was when I left it because I don't do anything to it in between like there's a week between podcasts I don't go into that same collection at all because I use a different scene collection to do my videos it's completely different and the different sources I made sure all the sources were differently names because I thought figure at one point I figured was because I'm using the same like for webcam I usually just used to call it just webcam in both sync collection so I figured if I did a transform on my webcam in one sync collection it transform you know transitioned into the other sync collection so maybe that's the reason why my transforms were different but no I changed it so that in every sync collection every source is named differently so that that can't possibly happen yet today when I logged in not only were you different like y'all had to green bar so I had to change that transform which shouldn't be there because that should be exactly the same as it was last week but I was my webcam was at 680 by 6 some 600 by 480 or something like that like first off great resolution from the 90s but we're not there yet as Tyler's joke was going on you know but it's just it's just it's it's infuriating and I needed to get it off my chest the other thing that I want to talk about was Wayland itself so I like Wayland now a little bit not a lot but a little bit I've really been enjoying hyperland mostly that's the reason why I like have been okay with Wayland hyperland is a fantastic window manager but the portal this portal situation is going to be the reason I go back to X work I almost guarantee it it's infuriating where for whatever reason it either the portal crash like it did just a few minutes ago or every time open up OBS in order to record my main screen which is the one that says in front of me I have two monitors on top of each other over here and then I have the main screen here it will record the two monitors over here just fine no matter what this one over here in order to get to record it I have to restart the portal service the system deservice for the portal and I don't know why and I've been I've you know I've been talking on get get lab or get a hub with on the hyperland get hub with them and we've been trying to get through it and we don't know what's going on there but it's infuriating and it's it's just like these little pain points of everything that just drive me bonkers this week and I needed to ran it you guys for a little while about that so if you guys see me back on X monad in like half a day that's the reason why unfortunately I've gone through and basically transformed everything on my system that couldn't work with Wayland into things that work with Wayland so like I switched from Rofi to Rofi Wayland and now any time I decided I need to go back into X work for whatever reason because I still have X monad and Q-tile and stuff installed and I do like a Super D in order to get to Rofi it won't work because Rofi Wayland doesn't work on X or so going back is going to be a pain in the fucking ass and I don't want to do it because I like hyperland a little bit but also Waybar guys I hate Waybar with a passion actually it's the buggiest it's like the KD devs decided to make a bar it's the buggiest piece of garbage I've ever seen in my life all right for me for me okay so right now actually you guys can actually see this I'll show you my cam let's see if actually I can't show you my cam because the fucking portals frozen again I don't care anyways in Waybar I have the hyperland workspaces in the middle section right you can't see it because it's not going through but anyways in the middle section and for whatever reason it shows sometimes not always the special workspace where I have my scratch pads okay and whatever I that's a bug I could put up with because I can just restart Waybar if I want to get rid of them it shouldn't be it should go away when the scratch pads not on screen or shouldn't be there at all because there's actually a setting in Waybar that says do not show special or something like that I have that set perfectly fine it doesn't work for me I don't know why but the weird thing is that is every once in a while along the side of the workspace part of the bar I get this little blank space it looks like extra padding like along the side it's not there always it's just there sometimes but what it is actually is a blank workspace with no name but it has a name if you click on it it'll actually take you to an workspace that doesn't exist called negative 1337 I have pictures of this you can't make the shit up it actually is there and I've I made a bug report on the Waybar get page and his response was that it must be CSS so I uploaded my CSS and he says well I can't reproduce it so it's not CSS and I'm actually and so we couldn't fix that either and it keeps crashing and I'm looking for a new bar so yeah I'm having problems I'm moving to windows I guess it's very odd everyone else says that Waybar is fantastic and that it doesn't never crash on them and they don't have any of these problems like Fraggle uses some of the same stuff when he uses a bar uses some of the same stuff that I do he uses the same things for for scratch pads I think as I do and he doesn't have any of the same problems now he doesn't have multiple screens so maybe this is a multiple bar problem because I have a bar on each screen so maybe that's what's causing it I don't know it's I think multiple screen about this after this podcast you're sending me your config and your style CSS and I'm going to test and see and also look into it because I want to know what settings you may have set differently than me they're all up on GitLab of course and you'll have to install Piperland because that's what I use for scratch pads so well I don't even know how to use scratch pads so that one's gonna be a hard one for me to reproduce yeah it's it's fine I just have a key binding where so I can actually what I should do is tie this key binding to the portal so that just restarts the portal every time I restart Waybar and I should just do that I can just do it because I do that four times a day to get rid of the stuff that mysteriously shows up in in Waybar also my cam is still frozen which is just the stupidest thing actually let me let me go ahead and restart the portal just I have this thing here and we can see if that fixes it and no it didn't fix it okay anyways that's enough me ranting Tyler what have you been doing on open source this week hopefully having a better luck than I have actually yeah about ten times better luck I've gotten a ton of so I even I even spent some time looking at and trying to help you address some issues on your dot files but I I've gotten my my zany OS or like Nick's OS configuration is pretty much ready for a stable release I've got plenty of easy configuration options for like you know do you want bloated programs installed like Kaden live blender that I use so you can easily toggle those on and off do you want NTP services like I've got a whole bunch of different easy options that you can set my configuration they also have thanks to Jerry Ddubs and a handful of other people we've added a whole bunch of features like choosing you know you can easily switch out your kernel for something like the Zen mod kernel you can easily do that Zen kernel so oh I'm frozen I know I'm fixing it okay but um yeah it works fine last week like last week I was on on Wayland alright sorry you can just keep going I'll keep fixing it as long as I need to and then I'll mess around with it later so the other thing that we've pretty much decided and kind of everybody who's been helping out with my configurations and making polar excuse me merge requests and issues we've all kind of agreed we've hit a really nice point with my configuration there's a lot of options so now the only thing that we're gonna work on is I'm going to do a stable release either before or after we make an install slash manager script where you won't have to go through a whole bunch of steps to reproduce the system or anything like that you'll literally just execute a script and that script will not only install the flake and set up your system your Nix OS configuration to work properly with flakes and you know set anything that you might need for mine it'll do health checks to make sure you you're actually using GPT and UEFI because that's a that's a pretty common thing that people do is accidentally install using legacy or MBR and Nix OS does not like that especially when you're using experimental features like flakes it definitely doesn't like it so for things like that it'll have health checks to make sure it's running on a proper system and then also if you're running inside of an X or a Wayland session you'll also I'm going to use YAD to give you a gooey front end for configuring options and stuff so for the people who want my configuration but are not interested in learning how it works are not interested in learning how Nix OS works in general all of that kind of stuff if you don't want any of that but you just want my configuration and you want to change a few things about it maybe install a new program you know do whatever you'll have that easy tool there and it'll work under any environment whether it be X Wayland or just in the TTY so that's kind of the big thing I've been working on and planning out pretty much what I've been up to just a whole bunch of Nix OS work you're you've become the ultimate Nix OS fanboy this is what you've been I I genuinely love it like and I I wouldn't say that I love Nix OS as much as I love the Nix programming language it's really awesome like I really do like it the only thing that I will say is it is there's a lot a lot of curly brackets for me it's a little too close to like something like a lisp and it's parentheses in my opinion so maybe that could be improved but overall I love it it's nice it's got a decent syntax I like it thank you the Linux tube for your five dollars super chat and I will indeed buy myself a shot I'm gonna need one by the end of this I have a feeling I'm gonna be starting the portal several more times it's gonna be awesome but yes thank you that also when it comes to your waybar configuration I don't I had an issue with waybar and it having a bug and I will I will laugh if the same thing happened to you that's happening to me because I can't remember what it was I either misspelled an option or put something ridiculous in for a setting and it broke like something completely different and it took me forever to find what I was doing wrong in my way okay so this is the argument I had with the waybar depth okay so if this happened all the time then it was then it's definitely something that I did in my configuration file definitely but it doesn't happen all the time it just pops up after suspend okay and it's not always after spend is but it's mostly after the computer comes back from suspend it will put this thing up there and it's really fucking weird it right now after I restart waybar it's not there it's gone and if it wasn't if it was in the configuration file it would be there always so I know it's weird it's not that big of a deal there are other bars like I have a couple of the bars open here that I'm meaning to look at there's one called iron bar that looks okay it's also done by CSS and stuff so some of the knowledge that I've been relearning is not going to be completely on both of these are GTK GTK there's another one called G bar that looks not quite as good as as iron bar does also someone says well why don't you just use you and I'm like you well I will say this who is nice but I haven't had time to play around with it and it's it is way like you think waybar is difficult to configure good try to have fun I've tried I did a whole live stream on it and I didn't get very far but I need to get because you go on Unix porn you see people who done that stuff with with you and like oh that looks really freaking awesome right I want to do that at least I can steal someone else's config for it and use it then learn from there but it's just I don't know it's very very complicated but anyways I'm going to be in search for a new bar I'm not leaving Wayland or hyperland because of the stupid portal thing it's not that big of a deal well I do have to say this the portal issues are the one things that people run into with Wayland that's typically your last barrier to entry where it's perfect and the portal issues are terrible and this is kind of a self-promotion but not really because I do actually mean this you are I believe on patreon in a support tier I'm pretty sure so that means you have time like you've been paying for a long time so you you have time like I give time freely that you can book time for me to do stuff for you so if you want an ubar but you don't want to write it yourself book the time for me to do it for you that's kind of what they're there for so just so everybody knows like Steve and chat was talking about it but like if you want me to do something like build you an XOS configuration build you a module configuration I have support tiers where you can schedule time and you get a certain amount of time each week that you're subscribed that you can schedule out for me to do stuff for you and that's kind of the point of doing it I want to provide that service for other people also it's kind of a cheat because it also means I make a little bit of money for learning things that I should just spend my free time learning already but you know you should drop your link to your patreon in the in the chat Steve thanks for the super chat bud a bar of soap have a Kaluha shot and relax blood I don't think I've ever had Kaluha to be honest with you like even when I drank anything I got all back in in the got it it's been over 10 years since I've had anything to drink I don't think I've ever had Kaluha like a Kaluha shot I've had Kaluha my mom likes Kaluha in her coffee like if she's got a day off she has nothing to do she'll put a little bit of Kaluha in her coffee but like I've had that that's good I don't know about Kaluha shot straight up I've never had that I used to stock it when I worked at a grocery store so that's probably about as close as close to Kaluha's I've ever gotten so alright so as you can tell we we've had some we've had some things to talk about but we're gonna go ahead and move into the main topic which by the way is gonna piss everyone off like everyone off so last week we did our Linux tears and by the way that was the most viewed podcast we've ever had on the channel so if you've watched that thank you so very much for watching it and we know why because it literally pissed everybody off like I don't think anybody said like oh yeah I agree with you 100% on everything which we didn't expect people to agree but the number of people who were confused as to what that was I think they would thought that we were trying to make like the be all end all tier list that was like set in stone nobody could disagree with guys that was opinion like every single thing we said there was an opinion and like all opinions it could be wrong you know we have opinions that are wrong all the time so the number of people that we offended on that video and on that podcast was extraordinary if you want to have an immense amount of fun reading a comment section go read the comment section of that video because goodness gracious people people were very offended surprisingly I didn't lose subscribers on that actually gained that was a net positive for subscribers but but the number of people who said they're like I don't agree with you on Papa West that they said it wasn't gonna be low some people said Papa was was too low some people were and goodness gracious the people who said that we did arch a bad we just did arch bad was off the charge so just can I ask you one thing though before we dive into this do you remember off the top of your head or could you look up what was the like to dislike ratio on that video I can yeah I can go I can go look so that's so on the edited version the we had 308 likes and 32 dislikes so not too bad on the live we had it doesn't it doesn't show on the live oh yeah it does we had 132 likes and eight dislikes so not too bad I thought it would actually be higher also by the way just reminder if you're watching this life hit the thumbs up button hashtag hashtag YouTuber anyway and go back here well actually I got to be honest some people will say will complain that you don't or that you do say it and then there's people like hip dad who I can't remember which podcast it was I don't think it was our last one but he was like he was like are you kidding me like this many people in here and there's only like four likes like he's like just talk about it tell people like it everyone forgets he's like I'm forgetful anyways leave a like we'd really appreciate it but anyways just a compound on our error quote unquote error with ours we decided we're going to dedicate a whole podcast to talking about whether or not arch is a good distribution so I think you and I would both agree and I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think we'd both agree that arch at one point was our favorite distro between you and me you used arch a lot you always return to arch despite the Josh leg distro hopping that you used to do and I was an arch fanboy for a very long time because it was good so we were we both come at this as someone who has used arch extensively for a very long time right so we one of the primary criticisms we had from last week was that we ranked distros that we hadn't used which by the way was blatantly untrue I used every single distro that we ranked maybe not for very long but I've used them that's how I had the logos of them okay because I've made videos about those okay so that's how that I didn't go I didn't actually go out and search out one single logo I had all those on my computer so that criticism wasn't very good but I mean towards me it works because there was like two or three that I that I had never used but I don't even think that's a valid argument cuz like okay you've ever had so if you ever been into sports and you've had a girlfriend while you were in this into sports you'll know that oftentimes they'll mock you for doing like March Madness brackets and they I had one girlfriend who decided to do a March bad March Madness bracket with me and decided to choose the teams based on how cute the coach was that she had no clue by the way who any of the teams were or any of the players or if they were good or bad she just looked up a picture of the coach and that's how she picked the winners the sad thing is she did a better job than I did she actually had more wins than I did so so hilarious but anyway that's absolutely beside the point anyways we both come at the arch thing from experience so we can't the key you can't say that we don't have experience with arts but we have to ask the question these days now that we have things like Knicks and other distrobes that are you know immutable and stuff like that that we we have other things do we think the arch is still a top tier Linux distro like it has been in the past so Tyler I'm gonna let you go and go first actually about about this question what do you think I'd have to say it is a good distro like objectively it's a good distro for most people though I don't think I don't think that's true like it used to be arch was really good because if you wanted up-to-date packages like truly up-to-date packages arch was the way to go arch also did not have too steep of a learning curve there there is a learning curve there's no lie about that but it wasn't as steep as something like gintu like sure you can get up-to-date packages with gintu but do you have the time to compile and learn how portage works probably not so I I think arch served a really really big niche inside of Linux but now if you want up-to-date packages and you want a lot of packages the AUR is not the only place to go to anymore I mean most distributions you can get pretty new packages pretty easily from a repository a community repository that is essentially a copy of the AUR essentially I don't think it serves that niche the same anymore mainly because there is constant issues we've got Steve in the chat just spend a moment of your time joining in and listening to Steve talk about all the things he's had to fix in arch to make sure it works properly for everybody that uses zero Linux like spend time talking to people who have done this stuff arch breaks a lot I don't know if everybody remembers it but there was a time where their C tool chain was like how far out of date like what was it like years yeah it was a long time yeah because the so like the person who was maintaining it wasn't around anymore we didn't want to do it or something it was it was a weird situation I know Brody covered it several times no and I think I I think arch is in this like unique space or it's it's not like they're they're a bad distro now it's it's that a lot of the people who used to maintain and work on arch have went to other places and are doing other things in other like communities inside of Linux and I think that will probably be the problem of arch for a long time is maintaining the actual not just the system but the packages inherently dependent on the system there's just people aren't going other play there's a lot of other stuff that that is more stable than arch and then there's also arch derivatives that are more stable than arch sorry man Joe you're not included in that whatever okay so you make a lot of good points and I think that the biggest one that I want to talk about pull out there is the AUR because okay so for the longest time there were two reasons why you'd want to use arch two real well three reasons three real reasons first one was the installation you wanted to be able to brag about the fact that you install watch because arch was one of the harder distros to install you had to know your stuff right it wasn't as hard as Gentoo or Linux from scratch but it was you know it was up there no longer the case but whatever the second reason why you'd want to use arch is that it's a rolling release that means that you get a very early access to basically every package out there and the third one and I think probably the biggest one was the AUR you had access to this gigantic community repository that literally had every piece of software you could possibly want in it and that was awesome for many many years that's the reason why I used arch was because the AUR was so damn good but I think that two things one you said one thing you said was that that type of community repository is no longer all that special because of things like flat pack and snap and because of things like the open build service or copper all these things exist right so it's not as special as it once was but also the arch user repository suffers from the same problem that every community repository suffers from things like PPA suffered from it the open build service suffers from it copper suffers from it the AUR suffers from it is that people don't maintain their packages forever and when they stop maintaining them you end up with a ton of orphan packages and they just live there forever until the arch the moderators of the AUR decide to kick them off and unfortunately they can't keep up with it so you end up with a situation you know I would say of the community repositories the AUR does the best job of pruning the orphan packages of all the rest of them because like though the open build service on open sues is just full of packages that are just completely out of date and you know they don't go away I don't even know if they moderate the open build service to be honest with you I assume that they don't think it's how all the packages that I see there are really fucking old same thing with a copper the the same thing with the copper from fedora is that you have a whole bunch of stuff there that's just really old so I will say that the AUR does a better job of pruning that stuff but because it's filled with a bunch of software that is still orphaned or really old or just significantly far behind it takes away some of the luster I think that they are AUR once had now to answer the overall question is arch Linux good I would say yes it is a good distro but it's not a special distro anymore like it used to feel like a special distro like if you used arch you felt special because you used arch there's a reason why arch Linux I use the art arch Linux by the way exists some of that was the installation maybe even most of that was the installation but even when the arch install script came along you know people were still very pleased with the fact that they were on arch and they used arch they maintained arch I feel like some of that specialness has worn off a little bit maybe it's because I'm more cynical or been around the Linux community for long enough now to realize that arch is just basically another distro it's there's not much there that sets it apart from anything else maybe I'm being too harsh on it because I am an entitled millennial and I want then want you know special shiny things all the time and whatever maybe that's possibility so it's possible that my view on arch is a little bit you know weird but it just doesn't feel as special as it once did what do you think of that well I would agree like I mean it is very much true there's there's not there's there isn't like it used to be when you said you were running arch or you were using arch not in the typical way we're talking about like I use arch by the way like but when you're talking about using arch normally with that came an inherent level of like the Linux knowledge like if you were using arch that mean you are at least to a moderate degree knowledgeable in how to set up and use a Linux system nowadays that's not true like if you can install arch through a script and through a ton of different ways and saying you use arch or talking about how you're how you're doing something in arch or whatever doesn't include this inherent like knowledge of Linux and I think that's why a lot of people like it's not as special anymore because you don't have to learn a lot about a Linux system to use it and I think that's a big reason why arch Linux was talked about so much like because if you wanted to learn to use a Linux system that's what you picked at least most people yeah especially if you wanted to learn how to use a Linux system and also do it in a way where you could use it and not like you know if you've got a laptop going the gent to route sure you'll learn how to use a lot of more advanced things about Linux how Linux operates but at the end of the day most people can't wait the time to do all that to have a working system so but now there's I don't think arch serves that same purpose as well anymore most people who are going to install arch understand that there's there's problems you're going to run into that aren't necessarily have anything to do with your skill like they could just be inherent arch problems so to avoid that what do most people do you go and install arco you go and install endeavor you go and install an arch based derivative that takes care of those annoying problems for you that have nothing to do with skill at all and to me that's that's kind of an improvement I think arch as a base becoming less and less popular means more people are using really good derivatives like arco like endeavor yeah I think that some of the issues that they have because I think I've come down to this after using open suzer now for well over 200 days and the way open suzer does a rolling release has kind of changed my mind on rolling releases so arch is literally no gap between when the developer presses publish and it comes to you you get it the day that it's published to you I don't think anymore that that's the best way to do a rolling release it's just not no I'm I don't want to come off and say like oh man Jaro is a fantastic distro it's not a it's not a good distribution but the the general idea of a rolling release that holds things back just a little bit that tests just a little bit is much more appealing to me nowadays than a distribution that just gives me everything the day that it comes out because I I think that by delaying things just a little bit by allowing just a little bit of testing you get past so many game breaking bugs like releasing grub and it being broken you know that didn't happen on distributions that did a little bit testing it's you know and the thing is that arch breaks grub all the time it's just one of those things that grub that arch does and usually you can fix it fairly well by either holding the package back or you know not using the get version which is what they seem to do you know for whatever reason you know so that early access to all the packages I don't think for most people is the best way to do it now that being said some people don't mind it's basically a package for me what it looks like is that arch is become a package testing distro if you want to help test packaging and the packages of your favorite software arch is probably the best way to do it because that's where you're going to get the most recent version of everything and you'll have access to all the get versions and stuff in the AUR if you are more interested in a distribution that is stable but isn't quite as old and crusty as Debian or Ubuntu or whatever you're going to use a distribution that is rolling like you know open suzer fedora but holds things back now it doesn't mean that open suzer fedora and distributions like that are perfect they're absolutely not I have many problems with both of them but I think that for most people a little bit of added security in those packaging not security isn't like secure but security is a knowledge that it's going to actually work and not kill your system reliability is a good thing for most people and I think that people who tend to proselytize arches being like the best distro tend to confuse their use case of it and their willingness to maintain it with other people's willingness to maintain it because those aren't equal all the time so just because you're interested in and okay with being basically a guinea pig for testing new packages which is fine you know fine that's what you want to do and that's the way you enjoy using your computer that's one represent pine but for a lot of people what they really want to do is just use their computer and know that the next time I turn my computer on it's and do an update it's not going to automatically not work because you know grub didn't work or they killed system D or whatever you know I think that that's where most people are yeah and I would agree with that there's two comments in chat that like I think we should probably address just because they're they add on to this conversation pretty well but to your point I think a lot of people want up-to-date packages but not the latest bleeding edge package arch for a long time was good for that like normally arch doesn't pull from the literal latest commit from source sometimes it does not always and most people if you set up a Linux system where it's pulling one of the latest commits doesn't have to be the latest commit from a from a pack or for from upstream then you're fine for most people that's all they want they want a late that they want the latest package that is known to be stable they don't want the latest package period like the latest build and so I'm not that has nothing to say that like or that's not me saying arch is bad or good in that area I just think that's what most people want they want that reliability with it having the latest features not being on a dev branch I think something we need to be very open about is that neither one of us are saying that arch is bad so if anybody in the chat says well you're saying arch is bad no absolutely not we're not saying arch is bad this is the same thing we were talking about last week when we ranked it a little bit lower in the tiers is that it's not a bad distro at all it's actually a really good distro it's just not as for everyone as their community seems to make it out to be you know and well I think I think the most important thing that we need to say is it's it is a it is a the reason we like ranked it lower and the reason this might come off that we're saying it's bad is not because it's a bad distro it's a good distro but it's even better if you build off of it like arco endeavor you can it makes a really really solid foundational distro it it's really really good as a distro no matter what but if you use it to build off of you can do incredible things with arch and most of the issues that someone would have with arch are addressed in something like that like arco like I mean most people are using arch because of arco it's the same thing with debbie and debbie and is not a distribution that is for everyone it's not as easy to install as you would like they obviously have some very interesting issues when it comes to isos and their maintenance of literally 10 000 different isos and a horrible website all that stuff right so it's not their their way of doing things is completely different but debbie and as linux mint will tell you as ubuntu will tell you as many different distros will tell you is a fantastic thing to build upon because it provides a solid base it provides a lot of software for you to have access to and then you can go forth and and do some of the things that you want to do in order to build a fantastic distro on top of it but for the vast majority of people debbie and is not a distribution that you would recommend as someone who would want to use especially if you're running on newer hardware or you're running uh you know if you're interested in applications getting actually updated ever you know and yet debbie and has a solution they have testing they have said all this stuff right and it's possible that if you want newer packaging you can get those things but you have to go search that stuff out the vast majority people are just using the regular debbie and iso and that's their stable version and i think for more for arch and debbie and are in the same sphere and that is that they make very good base distros where other developers can then build on it and create tools for them and create different user experiences than what those offer it doesn't mean that those are bad distros and that you can't use them you can i think that i could be very very happy on on debbie but i wouldn't put just a regular person on debbie because i think that they'd have more problems than they would if they were on on say to open to or link smith yeah and i think i think kind of what like the whole point of what we're saying is is both debbie and both arch have their great their great distros but they have pain points and there are better derivatives that address those pain points while still having the quote on quote solid foundation like because arch some people would say we're talking about stability not being a good like a good thing inside of arch that doesn't that doesn't mean it's a bad foundation because if you don't care about reliability you'll want a dev environment you want you know newer packages all that stuff then that might not be a pain point for you but for a lot of people that is going to be a pain point so that's kind of the point but also the two the couple of comments i mentioned earlier that were like really good is someone said people need to realize that there are people who use linux not to feel special there are not there are people who are not in comment sections every day and who use arch for practical non alias reasons that's true and the i think the whole point of what we've been saying is for for most people practically speaking there's going to be better arch derivatives that are gonna gonna make your system more practical to use for the reason you would choose arch and also milo said arch is still the best way to to try new things it's the best and easiest distro to run hyperland and all the latest fix and updates it's also the king of window managers like he's going on about hyperland there but to the point of where we're talking about how arches kind of lost its specialty is milo's comment used to be true like that used to be true arch was the best place to try out new things that are like constantly in development constantly getting updated like hyperland nowadays that's not true i cannot tell you like i'm not trying to shill nix os here it's just the best example for this with nix os you get the latest hyperland all that stuff but installing it you don't have to make sure you get the portal you don't make sure like you don't have to make sure you get all of the necessary dependencies not to get hyperland to work but to have a working hyperland environment working weyland environment you just enable it with a single option hyperland programs dot hyperland dot enable equals true so a lot of the a lot of the reasons that you might pick arch there are now other distros that are competing in that same market and are either better in a certain way or worse in a certain way than arch and so i don't know arch is still a great distro but i think there are definitely more alternatives for people to pick that make it harder to just say yes it's objectively a great distro and you definitely should go use it because now it's a great distro but is it right for you yeah uh steve thanks for the two dollar super chat sorry i missed it when it was going by and also we stole your your your your topic there he says arch is a good base for building one's ideal os we we said that we stole it from you good ideas and all that stuff anyway thank you for that someone asked what the most stable distro that i've ever used was and i had to say that it's open suza it just but i okay so i know people think that i'm an open suza show and i think that people are coming to think that nick that tyler is a nicks west shill so we're we're just open to shills here and i think that in tyler's case it's true oh no i'm not even gonna deny that one sticker but i i i think that people seem to assume that because i tell open suza all the time i think that it's perfect i do not i made a whole video bitching about how slow zipper is and that pissed people in the open suza community off because they say that zipper is not slow apparently it's just me i don't know but okay right sure but i have other complaints about zip about open suza the repositories for open suza are vast and if you add in the obs and you and you can install all that stuff with opi which i really enjoy but it has a ppa problem you know where it has a whole bunch of stuff in the obs that's really astonishingly old and you have to be very very careful with adding stuff from the obs also as you add more and more stuff from the open build service you gain a situation where you're on a buntu adding a ton of ppa's you have a ton of repositories on your system right now i have like 19 repositories on my system now those are just ones that i wanted to keep if i had kept everyone from the obs that i've added over the course of the last six or seven months it would have been even more than the 19 repositories that i have and that is an issue for me because it it causes zipper to be even slower than it is out of the box which is an amazing thing to say so i have issues with open suza just like i have issues with every distro there's not a perfect distro out there and i think that just something that we can talk about and we've talked about before we can talk about it again is that when people have a favorite something they get very offended when you say something negative against it and i'm the same way when darth vader got on my discord this morning and said he's hopped to nyxt i felt betrayed because he he is my bud and he switched to nyxt and he was in open suza but it's an irrational response to feel betrayed about what somebody else uses okay tyler uses nix os i personally don't think that i could use nix os as my daily driver i've tried i'm in the middle of a long-term review right now i have many qualms about it i can't wait to put that that review up there because i'm going to piss even more people off about it because i guarantee the nix community is not going to like what i have to say but just because he uses nix os doesn't mean that i'm going to unfriend him and kick him off the podcast that'd be silly you know it'd be stupid right because we he tried that but it didn't work it's just it's not people get very very attached to the things that they use and that's good i think that having passion for the things that you enjoy in life are a good thing as long as it's in as it's in moderation and you don't inflict that passion on other people without consent if you will you know the yeah i think your your point is completely true and the the problem that we have in the linux space is anytime someone is talking about something that they enjoy that they run or you know since they run it and they want to promote it because they like it it's it's instantly like a derogatory like it has to be we talk about people who promote things that they enjoy in an instantly derogatory way which shouldn't like just because you like like for you you love open susa you talk about open susa not all the time but quite a bit because that's what you use like you like it exactly so i don't see i don't see why we that has to be a derogatory thing like why that that's a bad thing if you like let's say you went out you spent the money and you bought yourself a nice i don't know toyota suv you freaking love the thing and you talk about how nice your toyota whatever is from time to time like not all the time like you're not doing it to an annoying degree there's a difference between an annoying degree and like just bringing it up in conversation that is completely related to the topic of what you drive like i don't think that's a problem like it's not i i i do think that's your point of people get way too passionate and take it as a an affront to them personally when you use something else that's the problem that's why no one can promote or talk about what they like to use in a reasonable sense because immediately like let's from let's say we had never met and we're in a conversation in like this call we've never met and we're just talking about linux and then you start talking about open susa why you run it and why you think people would benefit from running open susa in most cases the person in my shoes would immediately go well i run nixos and then it turns into this like instead of a conversation that's general about why people would use yours like what i use my it instantly becomes an argument and like over which one like one of us now needs to convert the other one yeah it's it's so stupid because really all distros are is a package manager and in a pretty theme for the most part now nixos is for nixos is different because of course it is and they do everything different but there's there's other distros that are completely different like we could go into like you know the is it bedrock linux the one that like lets you do all the package managers like there are those weird outliers right that do things in a different way and i have a different purpose you know you could argue that a lot of the immutable distros do things in a slightly different way and for for different reasons but generally speaking a linux distro is just a set of packages on top of a linux kernel that some maintainer has decided to give you right and and they've given you tools to manage those packages and every distro has decided to change the tools you're basically it's like having two different milk jug this is gonna be a really fucking stupid metaphor just prepare for this you have two different milk jug factories they're both making milk jug milk jugs that look exactly the same but they have different machinery to make them right you know one's maybe more efficient it's a little bit faster one uses less plastic whatever i told you it was a stupid metaphor just going in just fucking deal with it but but you get the idea right that they make the same thing the outcome is exactly the same they both run the exact same way but they have different tooling and stuff that goes along into the process and that's basically generalize the way linux is supposed to work which is why for the most part it is so weird that people get so offended when one person doesn't use what they use because i use open suza another person might use arch if we're having a debate there is very little difference between the way arch and open suza actually work day to day they use a different package manager they have different repositories that's it okay that's it okay they both use linux kernel they have different access to versions of the linux kernel at certain times because open suza holds their backs but it's the same fucking kernel it's not any different one way or the other okay they both use the new core utils exact same version as far as i'm aware they both use system d out of the box it's the same version of system d version 200 or 800 or whatever the hell they're on now system d does versioning really fucking weird by the way just never delve into that just completely off but but anyways you know so the fact that me and an arch user could get into a fight over which one's absolutely better is really weird but we did it anyway for an entire podcast today we're basically saying that arch linux is not for everyone but i i think that the conversation boils down to not whether or not is it a good distro but is it who is it good for and that's kind of what we've been talking about is is that who are the the audience for arch linux feels like it has shifted from one place to another where it it has just become a normal distro now it's not really as for as much for enthusiasts as it once was because it was very much for enthusiasts for a very long time because you know because the installation because there you are all that stuff but now it's just kind of like a normal distro that does things in a really it does things in a way that may not make it as good for again i'm gonna use this word but normals as you as it used you know as people think that it once was but what i find interesting about this whole thing is that the linux community does does weird things and does this with window managers for sure i have i have documented proof of this but if you follow unix porn i've talked about this before and you you followed unix porn for any amount of time you'll have seen trends basically fads as people go through different window managers at one point everyone in their brother was using i3 fantastic window manager right and then too many people started using i3 so a small portion of those people who are very not wanting to go with the crowd decided they're going to use bspwm and then everyone decided they're going to use bspwm and that got too popular so people move on to dwm and then then they moved back to xmonad and they moved to awesome window manager was big for a while now right now right now hyperland is the hot shit distros kind of do the exact same thing for the longest time arch was the golden child of the linux community like if you used arch you were proud of it you touted it to everybody every you were it was in every conversation right these days it's nixos that's kind of in the in the in the in the in the limelight every everyone's talking about nixos if they use it right and this thing tends to happen where the thing that used to be the hot shit just kind of goes into being the normal thing like it's just normal and while we've mentioned many things over the course of this conversation about why arch has lost some of its specialness and i think all that stuff is true it's just some some of that has to be just contributed to people taking it for granted taking it for not necessarily taking it for getting used to it being around it's obviously been around for a long time but just have gotten used it's no longer something that go ahead no like your point is so true like think about it the people in the in the unix porn subreddit the people who use arch primarily what are these people tinkerers they like tinkering they like playing around with a system that's like what they enjoy they find it fun if you tinker around with something for four years and you get it to a point where you couldn't be happier with it and you want to still tinker what do you do you try something new like and i i i think people get upset by that like which i don't i don't know like i don't think any just because you have a distro or something that's mainly oriented towards the type of people who would like to tinker with their system and people start tinkering with something new doesn't mean the old thing is dead like development on xorg has pretty much completely dried up there are still people using xorg there will still be people using xorg five to ten years from now even if programs stop supporting xorg there will be like a new project spawned a back port like programs and support xorg like there will always be the old things to go back and tinker with and play with and use on a daily basis like i don't think progress or i don't even know that i would call it progress but just new things a new shiny toy denigrates or removes the old toy you had like i mean i have i have an old one of those silver nintendo ds's i never play on it like regularly ever but i'll go grab that thing and have a good a day or two of playing like old call of duty modern warfare on a nintendo ds that's fun like it's a good time i don't i don't know what i mean retro gaming is a is a huge industry now okay like the people making dedicated consoles and stuff like that for this the the xorg thing is an interesting kind of conversation because you're right that people will use it for a very long time and they'll probably even create translation layers similar to like what x wayland does on wayland but for xorg so you can use wayland things on xorg i mean i wouldn't be surprised if that already exists to be honest with you if it's you know exactly so people have a tendency to do that right and the the interesting thing about when it comes to arch is that i don't think that they're so there's there's two things to talk about here we we should talk about the documentation because their wiki is a big thing right but in terms of their developers i don't think that the developers do do their popularity any favors because they're they're very they're a bunch of prickly folks if you if you will they have a they don't do a they're kind of like like we talked about this i think a couple weeks ago where the community management of some of the distros like maybe it wasn't even us maybe it was on a different podcast i don't even maybe i'm just imagining or something but someone was talking about how some how developers are should stay developers and that they should have like basically pr departments because the developers don't do a good job of pr they don't they don't do a good job of managing their reputation and normally that normally that's a sentiment i would agree with yeah and i think that the shining example of this in some cases is the arch devs because they don't they don't care about managing their reputation at all where they just let it do things and when they make a mistake they fix the mistake it usually happens very very fast sometimes it doesn't happen and you end up with you know what you know gcc or g whatever it was you know not updated for ages and ages you know so usually they fix the but they just post the fix and then they are shadow people the rest of the time you don't see them in the background you don't hear about them in the background they don't do social media i mean they have their conversations and stuff amongst themselves which are public for the most part you know in their mailing lists and stuff and such but unlike other distros like the depian people they're out there and about they have events they have conferences they have you know all the stuff in their forums and on on various social media platforms cannot the con canonical guys they're out there and about fedora obviously out and about making waves and cleaning up after red hats mess the open suzer guys out and about right and you know whatever arch guys you don't see them very often like unless you're trolling around the actual like arch forums and stuff like that that's where they live and they don't branch out at least i mean that's just the way that i it feels like to me like they just don't you know you're right you're right because i in the entire time i've used arch in the entire time you used arch did you ever hear about an arch conference no never nope yeah never i got invited to a nicks conference after i like after a month of using nicks and like talking about it publicly never once got invited to an arch event like now and i'm not saying that as a denigration arch but that's kind of my point or kind of backing up your point there is there's a lot of other communities out there that are very active like and doing cool things to get the community to have um kind of a cohesive layer to it like everyone's kind of on the same the same page with arch if if if they're 16 different groups all with their own complete independent like philosophy or you know design approach or wants out of arch they all exist simultaneously and they interact like there's no difference between them which is kind of a problem and and on top of that that like the part of it is because of how they're based like so like the the canonical guys that with with ubuntu they interact with you know they interact with the linux mint guys they have all these flavors they interact with the debbie and guys they interact with basically a whole bunch of you know the the gnom guys and the kde guys and it feels like a community that are interacting and and cooperating with each other where arch feels very isolated and solo but it doesn't feel like they don't embrace their offshoots so if if you're using a a derivative of arch and you go there for support or if the developer who's who's maintaining a arch distro goes there and tries to you know get support from them you good luck with that because they're very easily it's very much arch only none of the derivatives matter go to an arch go to an arch forum or any arch community and ask ask them how to fix your problem running our co that is the fastest way to have a bad day like i mean sure you might get help from some nice people only way is if you tell them you're using manjaro you know if you tell them you're using manjaro but and that's not just the developers have fostered that community because the community acts that way because the developers act that way and i don't think that there's anything wrong with it it just feels i was gonna say it feels like a cult but it's not it's not actually like that bad but it just feels very insular in the fact that they don't interact well with others and it feels like that causes them to stand apart from everyone else where them well yes you can be an open suzer fan or you can be an open suzer developer or you can be a you know an ubuntu developer fan or whatever and you know you're that thing and you have the passion for that particular distro but you also have people around you who use other things that are either based on the thing that you're using or very similar to it and you don't feel cut off from those other people even if they use something different and well you know people fight or whatever and about the things that we could talk about earlier with the whole passion thing but with arch if you use arch specifically use vanilla arch you feel at least i always felt kind of cut off from everyone else i think that that kind of added to the superiority that a lot of people felt when they had arch because it is so insular so arch only arches its own special thing and it doesn't interact with anything else and it's a very solo community and you can kind of get the sense that you have a superiority over people who don't use arch now obviously that's not everybody that's a broad generalization and is not fair to the vast majority of arch users the vast majority arch users are just normal regular people and you know they're perfectly happy with you using whatever you want but there's there is yeah you have to admit that there's a certain segment of that community that is that way and i think that the isolation of arch and as developers plays into that superiority and and i think that the thing that happened that changed all that is two things first arch install became a thing so that the installation was no longer a special thing but second of all the i used arch thing became a meme and instead of being something to be proud of that you use arch by the way you became someone to be mocked because you were so proud of it right and every time i say proud of having a being a member of a distribution or a user of a distribution people like why would you be proud of such a thing i don't know okay i'm not one of those people all right but you can't deny some at least at one point in the timeline that we're currently on there was a vast majority of arch users who were very proud of the fact that they were arch users and that became a meme and when something becomes a meme it becomes something that can be ostracized against right people can say hey you use arch by the way and you say it a lot you know it's it's one of those things it's just i think the arch has these it's just in a way we said that it was special it lacked its specialists but i think that sometimes it considers itself so special and that separates it from or makes it feel like it's separate from literally everything else i mean i would agree with that i i i do think there is a good segment of of the arch community that does believe that they are not more elite than like some others but they are more like special like arch is a special distro and i don't i don't know i to some extent that i mean that mentality was at one time true like if you wanted to have a usable in-depth tinkerer system like yeah you went with arch but now that's not special like and i don't i don't think it i think that's a good thing the fact that arch isn't special for having a bleeding edge like you know rolling release distro that yeah is a little bit harder to get into it's a little bit more base level like you're going to build your system i think having other options that are easier isn't a bad thing i think having other things that don't make that special isn't a bad thing and i also don't think it takes away from what arch is i think arch is still a great distro yeah it's just i'm in a butcher your name but sin sinitar thrax or whatever you you say you seem to be hung up on people using arch to be to be superior even while saying it doesn't apply to most people the problem with that is that the people who claim themselves to be superior by using arch are the most vocal so that they kind of dictate the reputation of everyone who does even if the it doesn't apply to everybody right it's it's the same thing for literally any community that you encounter the people that you encounter if the first person you encounter in the open suzer forms or whatever is an asshole you're just going to kind of assume that everyone there is kind of an asshole especially if you have multiple you know interactions with different people and they all kind of treat you this with the same blunt and very uh disassociative manner manner that's not the right word but if you have that experience a couple times you're just going to assume that that's kind of the way the community is and unfortunately arch has developed the reputation of being like that unfortunately that's just the way it is and like i i don't i don't see how we're hung up on it like this is a fact like it is objectively fact when you go into the arch communities you're going to find a lot of people who have a superiority complex like that's going to happen is that true of most arch users or all arch users no but are those two things like do they have to be like diametrically opposed no they can both be true at the same time like they're say there is plenty of arch users that do have a superiority complex is that the majority or all of them no like these things are both true and they and definitely what you were saying yeah they've gained a reputation of having those users i i also don't i don't i don't think we've been complaining about this it's we've been talking about it like this is just something that has happened with arch and there's also like this is also true with most tinker like tinkerer systems like gen two there's plenty of people who use gen two because they have a superiority complex about using a gen two like that that's true i i'm gonna say this and and just know that mostly i'm being joking but the the the thing about the the gen two is that if you install gen two you have a reason to be superior like like but there are levels like if you install gen two and you get it up and running and and you use it and it's fantastic you have a a little bit of a reason to consider yourself superior a little bit like maybe not superior but proud of that fact because it isn't it is a it is something that you have done that not everyone can do or has done right so it's something to be proud of but like i said there's levels so the people who install linux from scratch look at the gen two guys like oh how cute you know it's a completely different level and i think that there's a difference between being just proud of something that you've done and then moving on to then there's a difference between between that and being constantly proud of it all the time and the next technique said that gen two is not hard to install okay it's not hard to install if you've already done it if you haven't done it ever before it is exactly hard to install especially if you have friends don't know hold on a second especially if you have friends in your live chat trying to teach you how to install it and they're all telling you a different way so yeah and yeah but not that i'm salty or anything well to the point of like like when it comes to like being proud of something that you've done like gen two i think a big part of that it normally it's not even that you're proud that you've been able to like get gen two working and installed and like now you know how portage works it's normally like i have the hardware to run it and like still use it on a daily basis like i'm not still compiling firefox it actually compile you know exactly but but it happens within the the gen two community too because if you've probably i mean you've installed gen two often enough to be to be looked down upon by for using the binary kernel instead of compiling it yourself like there are members of the gen two community that if you don't compile your own kernel they're like why are you even bothering using gen two that's the entire fucking point right why are you using the binary that's what that's why when they just announced recently that they were creating a binary repository where there was a whole bunch of people like why are you what's the point of gen two if you're just using a just using a shit ton of binaries it doesn't make any sense the whole point of using gen two is to compile everything and use use flags and all this stuff right so that that pride and that stuff can be easily knocked down when you don't aren't using quite the hardest thing and i think to bring it back to arch arch used to be one of the hardest things even if it wasn't you know truly hard but these days arch install exists so no longer hard it takes away that pride point right and i think that sometimes the people who still have pride over their uses of arch which by the way you can be proud to have installed it like whatever for a little bit but continuing to spew that pride all over everybody is not necessarily you know the best thing in the best image so uh what were you laughing about tyler sorry just while you were talking there tgp put a put a super chat in thank you for the twenty dollars and he said as an arch user please accept this is my humble token of peace and good will for white people thank you tgp for the super chat uh we're not alienating the the arch people i think we've been very clear on the fact that we love arts people we used to be we used to be arch people and i'd happily use arch again if i needed to okay i i tend to prefer other distros these days but i think that you and i are both in the situation where if somebody said an arch laptop in front of us we'd be perfectly happy as long as it stayed running for an amount of time right it's not like somebody said in a buntu laptop in front of us and they're like oh god you know or an elementary os laptop because we'd both tear our heart tear our hair out if we had to use that right so it's not absolutely no way are we saying that either the arch distro or the people who use arch are bad people or are i'm not the best majority of them aren't even obnoxious they're just regular people and it feels like by generalizing and saying that you have pride in arch and you you shouldn't talk about how you use arch is is is those generalizations generalizations are bad we we we even though we've done them in this thing we we've generalized way too much and we should say we're sorry about that but i think the the issue for this entire conversation is that there's a certain segment of the arch community that gives that reputation and makes it hard not to generalize you know the way that we've done and i think just overall just to kind of wrap this whole conversation up to bring it all back to the general question is arch a good distro i think that the vast majority of people no matter whether they they're using arch currently or they just they've used it in the past would answer the question is yes arch is a good distro but arch is a good distro in the same way that opens sues is a good distro the same way that fedora is a good distro the same way that i'm going to be painful to say this that abutu is a good distro that linux min is a good distro it's in the same way whereas it feels like previous that and we we talked about this that it used to be above like it felt like i think if about two years ago if you and i had done a tier list we would have put arch as an s-tier distro i think we would have done that because we would have considered it to be a special distro nowadays you guys saw where we ranked it it just doesn't feel like it's that thing anymore now obviously feel free to to disagree with us because these are just opinions and uh you know we're not we're not the ultimate authority on anything like literally anything like we have no authority whatsoever neither one of us have ever really ever contributed to the arch community in any way whatsoever it's insignificant way at least i know i haven't so we're just two random linux noobs on the internet talking about shit and that's all we can do anyways since since we are wrapping it up i i i do want to someone made a comment that i think it's probably pretty good what tier would you put would you put arch today at i think we were a tier too low last time i because we i think we put it in the third tier down i remember with the letters we're sorry i apologize for that s a b i think we put it in the beats here i think we put it in the yeah i think i'd put it up in a right alongside arco i think that it's a it's a solid eight year i don't think that it's an s tier i just don't but i there's one thing i should talk about when it comes to the to the the tier list that we did last week we were not as consistent with our reasoning as we probably should have been you know right well and also one of the things that we were doing is we were comparatively putting them into the list so like like each subsequent distro was put on the list in comparison to what we had already put on there which that changes your perspective like if we're going to directly compare arco to arch it's hard to put them in the exact same spot yeah what we should the thing is i was just choosing distros from random from the local list that's what i was doing what i should have done was we should have chose that the the pillar distros like devian and arch and and you know gen two and stuff like that first we should have done those first i think if we were to do it again we'd probably i almost guarantee actually i guarantee if in a year we decided to do the tier list again we would break every single distro every single one probably completely differently it was just well other than man jarrow but yeah man jam and jarrow it's no we have tier yeah rule seven nine x thank you for the the two dollars and i did in fact once use arch in a distro box i don't actually use distro box all that much anymore i've moved mainly to using native packaging from the obs and just because i have i would in fact use arch in a distro box again because it does have there are some merits to the aor being good just you know has the most software and i think that that's not a bad thing to use it i just don't think it's as special as it once was so that's that that's where we're going to leave it so moving on to the nuggies of the week i still by the way absolutely hate that name but if you want there's actually a nuggie t-shirt that you can go pick up shop.thelingscast.org it's an awesome t-shirt and you should just go buy one because it would dull the pain of me having to use the word nuggies each week speaking of those nuggie shirts and everything i wanted to ask you do you have those in a like a 4xl oh i don't know dude whatever whatever um whatever sizes fourth law offers yeah i don't choose any of that stuff the only reason i ask is because i think some people were saying my size doesn't only go up to 3xl and i think it depends on which type of shirt that you that you choose because they have like four or five or six different types of t-shirts or whatever some of them have different sizes than others so you so you'd you kind of have to pay attention to that during the product set up so mario says thank you for the five dollars just since i actually work for a living which i feel he's assuming that neither of us do work for a living but since i actually work for a living i don't have time to fix my distro when something breaks that's why i use devian i think that you would find that a lot of arched linux users also have jobs but uh other than that i get your point anyways moving on to the nuggies of the week tyler your nuggie of the week please mine it's actually i'm kind of really really happy about it it's westerm which is a terminal that i had never heard about i believe it's written in rust it's it actually looks really nice like it it's not like themed out of the box like really but it looks really nice out of the box i i love the tabs at the top the tabs at the top are that they're just great actually since you've got me full screen i'll switch over to my desktop and if i load up a terminal uh i can west why am i loading up a terminal like that that's alacrity westerm do i do i not i don't have it installed never mind i can't even show it off but anyway it's got nice tabs at the top and it just it's actually really fast like i don't know if it's it feels faster than kitty by a noticeable amount like i don't know if it's actually faster than kitty but it feels noticeably faster than kitty it feels like the output is like loaded much faster so i've been playing around with that just kind of messing around with it it's a very nice terminal i like it so when it comes to terminals i tend to ride mine into the ground so i use termite until it died i used alacrity until it stopped working and i'll use kitty until it stops working that's the way only time i ever switched to a new terminal is when i can't use the one that i'm on anymore so i think that's because i get very attached to the configuration file that i have so like my kitty configuration file by the way is fucking awesome everyone should use it um it's so good it's it's minimal and just has a few lines and it's awesome but um actually as long as you don't scroll down because the config there's a part in the configuration file where i have it like at the bottom that i still have some of the the old stuff so don't just don't scroll down you don't need to see it anyways my uh nuggie of the week so i've been talking so i talked about this the last two weeks in a road that i ran out of space for physical books in my house i have no more room for physical books in my house all my shelving is is taken up and it took a long time it took over almost 40 years for that to happen which is impressive but that means that i'm having if i want to keep reading which i read a lot i have to i've had to basically move over to pure digital books so i've been looking at tools now for uh reading digital books and i have two for you this week so first off just real quick there's an app called bookshelf on ios it's not available on android unfortunately but basically it's kind of like good reads but without the social aspects basically just allows you to track what you read rate what you read and you can kind of get some stats right uh it's very good and the reason why i'm i'm saying i don't think that it's the best app that does this because i think that some social aspect would be nice and i think that there are some stats that it doesn't have that would also be nice to have but the developer of that application is probably the most responsive proprietary developer that i've ever met in my entire life like i've had literal conversations with this guy about features and like the next day those features are there i've i've reported like two or three bugs the next day the bugs are fixing and that means he's fixed the bug submitted the update to apple and had it released usually within 24 hours it's fucking magic i don't know what the hell i don't know what relationship he has with apple whatever but it's just been the best experience i've ever had with someone who does proprietary software and it's it's great anyways that's called bookshelf but the one that i want to talk about really is called it's called the oh i'm gonna get the name the name it's called the overdrive for liby plug-in for colibri now colibri is an open source application allows you to manage your ebook library and read ebooks or magazines or manga or anime or whatever you're doing right and it's as it's as itself it's really really good it's not the best ui ever but it's good but the overdrive for liby plug-in basically allows you to have access to your liby account which is attached to your library card which means that you can search using that plug-in for anything that's available in digital form at your library within an open source piece of software and then read it in that open source piece of software it is amazing i actually supported the developer on on kofi or whatever it is because it's just an amazing it's kind of an amazing feeling to be able to basically rent a library book on your linux machine i mean it's just kind of magic so i will say that if i will just talk liby again if you are in a place where liby is the thing get yourself a library card and use it because it's the best way to get books that i in terms of digital books that i've ever come across so um amazing anyways that's it this has been a fantastic conversation we had a lot of people watching again like this is the second week in row we've won over 200 concurrent viewers which is just absolutely bonkers so thanks everyone who has watched live if you want to watch this live every week you can do so we do this live every saturday at three o'clock p.m eastern time or thereabouts today we're a little bit late but not nearly as late as we were last week when tyler decided to build his computer five seconds before the the podcast he's never going to put that one down ever i i will i i cannot justify the decision to build a xeon system for the first time ever never i've never used server hardware ever in my life the night before the podcast at like 1 a.m yeah can't believe that was a smart decision at the time yeah yeah he did it anyways anyways if you want to get in contact with us you can do so in any number of ways the best way is probably to head on over to the website which is the linuxcast.org there you'll find previous episodes all the way back to season one so if you want to binge the linuxcast you can actually do that i i can tell you this right now here's the funniest thing so i i talked a couple weeks ago about how i went through and created a page for every episode we've ever done somewhere along the line there was a host for like three episodes that i completely don't remember i don't remember this person at all can't pronounce his name so if you're even still watching i apologize i don't remember you you did episodes with me like four of them in like season three don't remember you at all sorry so that's how long i've been doing the podcast i don't remember all the f***ing hosts i've had so tyler just to know if you decide you you're not gonna do the podcast anymore i will soon forget you like i was doing like who is that guy like i listened to like i don't even remember his voice i don't remember those episodes at all like i've completely shut them out like i remember ricky i remember martin i like i remember you but like this there's this fourth guide no clue who he was it was hilarious but anyways website the linxcast.org is where you'll find all that stuff you also find previous blog posts there you can find tyler who does youtube videos ever every once in a while usually on nixos these days you can find that at youtube.com slash daniel g i'm still predicting that tyler will use nixos until uh mental all calls them out for using and then he and then tyler will switch off i'm i'm pretty sure that's the way that's gonna happen uh but anyways you can you can make sure you head on over there and subscribe to his channel as well you can follow me on youtube as well youtube.com slash linxcast you can support me on patreon patreon.com slash linxcast tyler's patreon and stuff like that will be on the website as well so you can head on over and find all of our contact information including mastodon and discord and all that stuff at the linxcast.org slash contact all that stuff is there be the easiest way to find it instead of just listening to me ramble on about it for five minutes anyways that's the contact information thanks to everybody who does support me on patreon and youtube because they're all absolutely amazing without you the channel just would not be anywhere near without you i i just there's the words see i had i did a whole fucking podcast until the end and then i lost the words anyways thanks to everybody who does support me on patreon youtube and kofi you guys are awesome without you the chance would not be anywhere near where it is right now there's the words in the right proper order good lord anyways thanks so very much for all those people thanks everybody for watching again live every saturday on the linxcast thanks you for watching you live if you want to watch it afterwards it's posted on mondays in an edited form both on video on youtube and on your favorite pod catcher make sure you subscribe if you do watch us or listen to us via audio make sure you leave a review thanks everybody again for watching or listening we'll see you next time