 I'm Jay Fiedel. This is ThinkTech. We're talking global connections today with Rupamati Kanadekar. We talk about some of the really interesting details of Indian economy, the Indian economy, how it developed, what it's like today and where it's going. This is an ongoing conversation, but there's so much material. Welcome to the show, Rupamati. Always nice to see you. Aloha, Jay. And always my pleasure to be with you. So let's continue our conversation about the Indian economy. I want to add, and I don't know the implications, that Modi is coming, Rundra Modi is coming to the United States to meet with Joe Biden next month. Of course, that's good because we want to cultivate the better and better relationship with India. It is the largest democracy in the world. There's going places that it has always great prospects we can talk about, and it's very important the United States stay close to India. Don't you agree? Yeah, Jay, looking forward to this visit, I think it'll be a big step in US-India relations, especially now when you see India coming up on the economic front. Biden also pleasing the Indian diaspora because elections are coming across. You remember last time when Trump was trying to please the Indian diaspora, it's a big voting bank and one of the biggest lobbies in the US. So having Modi come over, the jingoism helps electoral process, isn't it? Yeah, jingoism. I hadn't heard that term in a while. Well, good. I mean, would you please speak to the Indians you know and tell them how to vote? That would be helpful. You're the political analyst here. You can give them some wisdom here. Very important and I will too. So anyway, the G20 is also meeting in India around the same time. I don't know how Mr. Modi is going to be in two places at once, but hey, I'm sure he can work out a schedule. What happens at the G20 and what does it mean to India? G20 presidency that India has got this year is one of the highlights of Indian politics. It's been highlighted as one of the key highlights because Jay, it is portrayed as India coming on to the big stage or the global stage. And Mr. Modi has made sure that the G20 is also held in the state of Jammu and Kashmir to show that it's an integral part of India. So we had the SEO also meetings happening in India. So this is a busy year for the political agenda and you see big players coming. I think there was a there was talk of even put in coming to India, but I don't think it will happen for the November one. So now June is the visit of Modi to US. September, October will be the G20 in India. So that's how he's going to balance that out. Okay. Well, you know, diplomatic meetings, international meetings next year to the 2024 US and India both go for elections. How does Modi stand? It could be his third term that he will seek pan India elections. And you see, there's a very big portrayal of Modi in a negative manner outside because the Indian economy has grown five-fold under his tenure. But now you have to portray a negative image to bring down this man because his popularity is pan India. And the way he handles drastic situations like COVID and, you know, emergency situations like Pakistan attacking India is a very noteworthy in his tenure. So when you see that he has to endure another election, but I feel this election, whatever he has promised, he has delivered. Now, this election is being portrayed as a religious divide, which is not, I mean, a government is voted on the basis of its performance. You can you can highlight the communal divisions, but not to such an extent that it will affect the out. That's very troubling. Why? Why? He doesn't need that. He doesn't need to do a divisive campaign on religion. He's not done it. The media does it. Jay, the international media, Washington Post, in particular, these papers, New York Times, they portray a very negative image of Mr. Modi. There was a gangster, a literal gangster who had killed millions of people, hundreds of people exaggerating that, but he was termed as a lawmaker being shot dead. He was not put it was not reported as a gangster. I think so he was it was biased that it was a religious bias that was brought in. It was a lawmaker. He was he served a term in the legislature, but that doesn't make him wipe away his gangster tactics. So he was in a gang war. He was murdered, but that didn't mean that the western media has to portray that the lawmaker has been shot dead. So, you know, people who don't know about it will think that, oh, Mr. Modi is having somebody shot dead. That doesn't work that the negative image. It doesn't work. Well, gee, thanks for that. That's that's helpful to understand. It sounds like to me, Modi is and should be popular for his economic contributions over the past few years, because India has emerged as an economic powerhouse, as well as the most popular or likely the most popular country in the world at the fifth largest economy as we discussed before. And at least some of that is due to Modi. I mean, before India was, you know, it had socialist roots. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean, it just wasn't focused on capitalism. It wasn't focused on entrepreneurship. But, you know, back a decade or two ago, things changed. And Modi has carried that forward. And he is allowed and encouraged the development of entrepreneurship and acquisition of foreign companies. We can talk about that. And, you know, and built India to the economic powerhouse. It is today. That's impressive. If I were a voter in India, I would vote for him on that basis. That's what I would do. He's been tough sometimes. You and I have talked about that. But I think that's a matter of focus. And for good leadership, you need focus, right? Right. Till the 1990s, we had license rights. When globalization came on the global front, India accepted it and had to let go of the tariffs, the bureaucratic barriers that were, you know, hampering international investment. And Mr. Modi's tenure from 2014, why the economic growth has taken such a leap? Because he has brought in infrastructure development tax benefits for the investors who come from abroad. You know, you have benefit of payments and, you know, receiving your revenue. He has ease of payments. What is called he has done that ease of doing business. That scale India has climbed up during his tenure. And that is what is attracting foreign investors. Now, you see the entire from 1970 onwards, China came onto the international scene as a manufacturing hub. But seeing the domestic constrictions and, you know, the global perception of China, manufacturers are looking for an alternative to China. And what better than India when Indian government offers you better facilities? Any investor will go to China. Last time we spoke about how Apple has done business from April to December 2022 of $250 billion. That makes itself shows that investors are looking to India as a lucrative center for investment for manufacturing. And when you invest in manufacture in India, you have a ready consumption market. That is what is helping. And Jay, everywhere they're talking that China especially counters India's population growth and saying that they believe it's not about quantity, it's about the quality of population. But you see, Jay, Indian population is a market, middle class market, which helps these industries to work. It's a work force which has potential to build the infrastructure of a country, a country which was considered as third world. I told you it's got poverty, it's got underdevelopment, but it's the fastest rate of poverty reduction also. So that means there is a progressive graph. You can't be little the achievements of a country which has come to the fifth spot. And unmerited, indigenous. So that's when China terms it as just being quantity of a quality, they're making a big mistake. Well, yeah, I think what you point out something that's absolutely true and true all the time. Back in 20 years ago, China was very popular among American investors, global investors, because it had so much prospect. It was opening. It was opening and it was giving them opportunities, very controlled opportunities and all that stuff about the wholly owned foreign entities and the Chinese had to be your partner and all this and controlling your intellectual property. But despite all that, it was an attractive market because there were 1.234 billion people there. The problem was that the government was kind of tough and the government's civil rights have really been reduced and in some places disappeared and people get taken away and there are a lot of state sponsored murders in China these days. And so that's pretty scary to an investor or a company that wants to do business in China. And then we turn to India. India, a democracy, a representative government. India, which has a much greater focus on civil rights and making life better tomorrow than life is today. A country that really cares about benign globalism, if you will, and about expansion of entrepreneurial activities and encouragement of investors. So what's not to like? So I think people, companies, investors who might have been focused on China 20 years ago have turned our turning to India, which has got to be a factor in India's success as a global economic power. Am I right when I said? Absolutely, point on Jay. You see what you said like the education system in India, it has been good enough for Indian origin people to take over as CEOs of big companies today in the global market. You have the CEO of Google. We have so many people who have just come in and heading big global institutions. So when there's a talk, there's a debate about how India should upgrade its education system, its value system, these people have come from the very education system that has been in place for so many days. So that means something good is happening over there that we are able to turn out a diaspora which also repatriates money back to the country. And Jay, English speaking population is a big advantage over China. Like we spoke about last time, how they talk about the accents, different accents the Indians have. So that's a big thing that they do. Yeah. There are some very wealthy people at the same time in India. India has hundreds of billionaires. It has thousands of millionaires and ultra high net worth individuals. So people are being successful. Companies are being successful. Companies are acquiring companies elsewhere in the world, lots of them, including American companies, including European companies. And so I don't know if it's Modi or maybe it's the whole country who believes that they are a global economic power and should direct their efforts at becoming a greater global economic power. And I think that feeds into this whole phenomenon that we're talking about where India is manufacturing and it's acquiring industrial companies. And the problem with China is you really got to be careful they control you. With India, they don't control you so much, but there is a certain, what do I call it, the kind of morality that is imposed by democracy. For example, cars are a big deal in India. And Tata Motors sells cars all over the world. Tata himself has that connection with Hawaii. And Tata has a lot of other related industries. So of course, high-end cars are a big item in the consumer economy that you talked about. Elon Musk tried last year to develop a factory or a sales office in India to sell Tesla there. And that failed. I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe he pulled the plug. He's very unpredictable. But he's trying again this year. And it's not clear to me whether the Indian government will encourage him to come or maybe they think he's really not a good bet. What have you heard about that? About Tata first, they placed an order for the Boeing, which would create one million jobs across 45 states in the US. So that was a big, big, big consignment that was given. And Elon Musk, driverless in India, I think it's a bit difficult because come to India, see there are no rules. Road rules are very different. If you can drive in India, you can drive anywhere in the world. So I think driverless would get a little confused. AI would need a whole new concept to come into India. I saw an article in the paper about how the airlines are interested in developing AI for everything and anything, which is what I would do if I were an airline CEO. And I know you would do it too. So what you get out of that though is that India is strong on technology education, the Indian Institute of Technology up there in what's in Bangalore. I'm not sure where it is. And you know, there's a lot of fantastic technology graduates, many of whom have left India and become technology executives around the world. So it just shows you the quality of technology education in India. And that really, it rises, all boats rise with that. So here we are, it's obvious from the press everywhere that AI is the great phenomenon of our time. It's going to change the world. There was testimony at Congress just this week about it. This guy, Sam Altman, was up there talking about how government needs to regulate things like open AI, chat GBT. So we're in the revolution, if you will, on technology. And India is very well prepared. And India recognizes, you know, it's extraordinary opportunities. What have you heard about that? IITs, Jay, they were very meticulous in their preparation. You know, the supercomputer, which was a long time back, it was developed in my home city, Pune. So you have this kind of innovations which take place. And when you say AI, when you say this technological advancements, even the SFX, you see the movies, when you see the credits, you will find Indian names in it. A lot of Indian names in all the big movies. So you see India is also developing and not only as a manufacturing hub, as a technological center for international development. You have these small institutes also, which will bring in big contributions to the world of AI. And it's in the development state. So everybody can contribute. And it's never going to be exhausted. Like we say, every innovation will count till a point comes when we don't know what to do with it. So AI is that kind of realm, which we don't know what will become. Well, we do know that the Indian technology workforce is very strong. Speak English has been coding for years. And recognizes, you know, in a flat world, they recognize that they can do this. There's really no barrier. Once you get on the internet, you can build these large language models so easily. All you have to do is develop, you know, the approach, the tech approach. I can see them becoming a leader. Of course, China wants to do the same thing. But China imposes political controls on its large language models. And it's different. And it's not really optimistic, not that competitive. But India can do that. And I project for you that within the next five years, if not less, India will become a major force in AI, don't you think? Yeah, Jay, Silicon Valley, you see so many Indians, don't you? Now the United Kingdom wants to build a Silicon Valley of its own. China falls back, like you said, because of the language constraints. So India has the language, India has the workforce, India has the education, which it can back on. And, you know, they can tap on this, they can use this advantage for their benefit. That's going to be one of the, you know, we have a population of below 28, 65% is below 35. So that's a huge population which is educated, English speaking, technologically sound. And we have digital data. So the atmosphere is right. The implementation is going to need fine tuning. That's what's going to happen. So the question I put to you is whether this, you know, fantastic possibility will happen in India and will attract people from around the world to go to India. I mean, you can go to India and enjoy the entrepreneurial reception, you know, you would get from government, because that's the way the Modi government works. It encourages entrepreneurship and get, for that matter, you know, goner capital there, including capital from the U.S. Or is India more likely to send people, send its graduates from IIT everywhere? It isn't only political, it's technological, you know, everywhere and where they will contribute to a global effort and make money at the same time, including in Europe, which we know they are well received in Europe, and the U.S., which we know they are well received in U.S. Indian CEOs populate the world of technology in the U.S. Which direction is it going to go? Is it going to be attracted to India or is it going to be exported from India? Right, Jay. Jay, going back to our first initial conversation that G20, which is happening now, it's got different aspects to it. Like it's G20 women, G27, G20, you know, you have infrastructure, G20 rural. Like this year, India's presidency has brought about a new concept known as startup twin. So bringing about that you encourage entrepreneurship in such a way that the startups are, you know, given all the incentives that they need to begin and prosper in the environment that they need. So this kind of advertisement of encouragement of and providing funds, resources and, you know, the environment to thrive becomes a big point because you never know where a startup can succeed. And everything that we are seeing in today's modern world has been a startup at some point of time. It's an idea which has flourished. Even Elon Musk has ideas which flourished. So startup encouragement is very important. And India and its presidency is giving us. I want to add an article I saw about Airtel. Airtel is, I guess that's a telecommunications company. And India is very strong in telecommunications. You know, here in Hawaii we have the telecommunications conference every January and they're always there. They, you know, they command a lot of respect there for their technology and their global view of things. And so if you have Airtel and you have AI and you have all these people, you know, who are tech savvy, you're really talking about communications with the world and communications with the world, you know, that is an essential part and parcel of global economic expansion. Airtel is big time on AI. Airtel is committed to AI. That was recently in one of the Indian newspapers I saw. So what I'm saying is telecommunications is key. Global telecommunications and telecommunications technology is key to all this and it will accelerate. Do you agree? Yeah, Jay. It's a good combination to have. You have these broadband providers which give you data and such. That cheap price is, Jay, that we have accessibility. And like I told you, the UPI system, which is the payment, you can do payments because you have access to the internet. So this technology which is reaching every person's hand and bringing, when you can understand what is written, when a person can read English, when he can understand the signs that are taking place, any business will find this technological acceptance very becoming of them to come and invest in it. I saw another article that said the Indian government, Modi had set aside two billion dollars, that's a lot of red, to attract laptop makers like Apple, Apple computers to Bangalore to build computers. So this is different. You know, in the past, a lot of Apple computers are built in China and now Modi sees India as a manufacturing center for computer hardware, as well as software. This is a bit of a pivot, isn't it? Because India is certainly capable of building computers, but it hasn't built all that many. It hasn't really embraced that subject, that industrial opportunity. Do you think there's a future there? Yeah, Jay, this, I told you before that Apple has opened its first store in Bombay and they're paying around 44.2 million in rupees as rent. So you see, if they don't have a lucrative standing or investment, why would they invest so much money? And it speaks a lot of how much Modi has been giving these manufacturers a place where they can really thrive. We had mobiles which were being manufactured in India. And you know how he encourages it? When you ask a company to come, Mercedes, there's a big story about this, there's a tidbit about this, that Mercedes came in and they didn't know if the Indian population would buy a Mercedes. So they decided to just venture out into the market and create a reiki and see how many people would buy. And Jay, they had a waiting list of one year. So they had to understand that they have to put up a factory in India to be able to supply the Mercedes, that much of a demand. So never underestimate the Indian population, they do go for a lot of spending. So the entire manufacturing of Mercedes started happening in different different centers in India. They were going to assemble and bring it in India. But when they saw such a big demand, they decided to set up a manufacturer. Now laptops are in every person's hand. And Jay, see the people, 1.4 billion, how many laptops can be sold. So that market is huge, that market itself attracts these investments, that market itself attracts these businesses, foreign investors in such a way that even over 1.4 billion people, it's like how many European countries put together. So even if 30% of this population goes and buys laptops, your deal is done. So it's a good lucrative thing. So this economic success, which is extraordinary in our time in our world, requires energy. And the more energy, cheap energy you have, the more you can expand your economic base. And that leads me to ask about the troubling phenomenon where India is buying Russian oil. Right now, Russian oil is a product of Putin, and Putin is a monster. And history will not judge him kindly, and I don't. And none of my friends do. So the question is, and apparently, I did see some compress about this, actually, India, and probably for reasons associated with its economic expansion, is buying more and more Russian oil and gas. It's not just a flat line. It's an increasing line. So on the one hand, this is helpful, I'm sure that Modi, we're here today, he would say, I need this to expand our economy. But on the other hand, there's a geopolitical price to pay. So is this going to catch up with him? Where is he going to be in terms of the, what do you call it, the moral dilemma? This is about the European sanctions, Jay. Europe is bypassing Russia and going to India. Now, India, out of the blue, has become the biggest supplier of refined oil to refined petrol to Europe. How did that happen? Russia is supplying to India. India is refining it and sending 386,000 barrels a day to Europe. So Europe has just bypassed Russia and going through India. India is playing a via-via role in this. So you see sanctions are imposed, but Europe is getting its supply of oil through other channels. That is not right. When you stop Russian crude, stop it completely in the market from coming out of Russia. Don't allow it to come to a channel and then reach you. You know, that would make, if Russia, Europe stops buying 386,000 barrels, it will hit the countries. But because this is moving, you see there is stop of de-dollarization. There is stop of replacement of the dollar after 70 years, 75 years Jay, that there is stock in the global market of replacing the dollar as a petrol currency. There is a BRICS currency which around 30 countries have accepted to have payments. Russia and India decided to do a trade in the Indian rupees, but they don't know what to do with the Indian rupees. So the new payment system is happening in the global market and China and Russia are the engines behind this. India is a part of this, but China and Russia are wanting to jointly displace the United States as the hegemon of the global liberal economic order. Yeah, we live in a time of change and there's so much more to discuss, Rootmati. I look forward to our next show. We'll drill down on so many issues that have been raised. Thank you so much, Rootmati. Romani Kandekar, helping us understand not only India, but India's effect on the global community. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Jay. Always, always my good. Thank you so much. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and donate to us at ThinkTechHawaii.com. Mahalo.