 Hey Gene. Hey. This is my obligatory uh we're being recorded statement so you all know for posterity. But how's everyone doing? Good. Good. Are there others on already Haley? Because I only see two. All right. You should see Terry and Dennis. Hello. Hi there. How you doing? Okay how are you? Pretty good. Pretty good. Good. Maybe of the view set differently Gene. That could be. Ah here we go. Haley I couldn't print out that PDF. It was taken all day to download and I couldn't print it out. Which PDF? The one you sent us about membership. Oh it was a big file. Did anyone else have that problem where they couldn't read it? I could tell by the size that I'd rather keep it on the screen. Okay me too. Besides didn't you warn us about how big it was or something? I think I did. Is it yeah it's a pretty substantial file because it's got like a lot of information. I am going to allow in Doug from EDM Lifespan Design because around five o'clock they're going to give it a little presentation so I may as well let you in now Doug. Is Jeanine and Ann the new people? Yes. Haley you're welcome. Hey. Welcome to your first ever COA meeting. We still are missing a couple members but three, four, five but we do have a quorum so that's good. Can you hear me or see me or neither or both? I can hear you but not see you. Your title's up but that's it. That's interesting. Can you see my name at all? I changed your setting so that you're promoted to panelist so now you should okay there we go. That's what we needed. Doug Gallo FAA. Yes. Welcome. Thank you. So Doug we usually do a little roll call of all the members. We'll do a public comment which I don't know. I don't think we have anyone from the public here so that should be pretty brief. Nice to see you in person Amy. Hi Haley nice to meet you. So that is everyone so Chad did you want to call us to order? Is Amy Ray a new person too? Hi Chad. She's from EDM Design Consulting. Okay. Are you with us Chad? Yep. So Chad is our chair. Dennis is our vice chair. One of you would you like to do the roll call so we can pick on? I think Dennis dropped out of that position. I don't see a quorum so everyone's here. I see three people on the board. Nope we have almost everyone on the board so the only one not here is Jacqueline. She was on briefly but then she dropped off Gene, Terry. They're all here. Let me pull out the agenda. Let's see I'm going to go around the room and call names to make sure that you're online and that you can be heard. It's a roll call to make sure we have quorum. Is Terry here? How about Dennis? Right here. Erin? Here. Jacqueline? Here. And Christine you're still on mute. You're here. Can I hear you say hello? Yes I'm here. All right so that makes a quorum. And our new members are also here Chad so Gene and Anne are our new council on aging members. They're not on the screen. Oh okay. Are you two already members of the board? Yes they were approved. You can say hello Gene. Hi there. And why did you be here? Is Anne here? Yes I am. Hello and glad to be here. We have a quorum. I want to let folks know that we have an open period and a second spot on our agenda for public comment. Residents are welcome to express what they need to. Board members are listening just here. I don't see anyone here besides looks like two people from EDM. So if there's no public comments move on to item three. Well item three I guess we could welcome the two new board members. You know we usually don't have much dialogue during the meeting. We're sort of at a point of reorganization right now where lots of folks are new to the board. We have a fairly new senior center director. Reorganization is a great time to talk about how you came to be a member of the board. What you hope to do coming to the board. But that's not on the agenda in terms of time allotment and so on. Let's see right now it's five oh four. Perhaps each of you in turn could say one or two minutes about how you came to be on the board. Gene what helped you want to want to join the board get involved. Well I started volunteering at the senior center earlier this year and I was really excited about what was going on there and I had a wonderful experience being very involved with my dad's care as a senior he unfortunately passed last year but really opened my eyes to the importance of having good quality care for elders in a variety of means both the programming activities as well as support in the community. So I look forward to trying to help make a difference and improve things for our Amherst seniors. Thank you and yourself Anne. I've lived in Amherst for 25 years. I've chaired the public art commission and the cultural council during that time. I haven't made use of the senior center and I noticed that when Hayley came the publication that I was getting changed and I thought oh maybe something good is going to change at the senior centers. So I thought well I'm in my 80s and if I have something that I can be helpful with that sounds like a good committee for me to join and fortunately I passed muster which well that's that's and you know it's an interesting thing I think some people would be intimidated people that might be very useful and valuable to committees might be intimidated by the process. All right thank you Anne now we have Hayley presenting the folks she brought today. Yes so we are joined by Amy and Doug from EDM architecture and engineering some of you may know their beautiful work in Hadley we're also jealous of their beautiful senior center and so they had actually been following kind of some of the news recently about Amherst and how we want we'd like a new senior center you know the the current building's not quite meeting our needs so they're here to talk about the design process you know how how it is that we might affect and change here in Amherst like they've done in other communities. Hi everyone and thank you for the introduction Hayley. I'm Amy Ray I'm director of business development with EDM architecture and engineering joined with my colleague Doug Gallow of Lifespan Design Studio. Together we have been partnering on a number of senior center projects across the region which is why we're here to talk to you today. A little bit about EDM we're based in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. We provide architecture interior design structural and mechanical electrical engineering. We've been in business since the late 80s and have been working for about 10 years on projects in senior centers. We happen to be working with Doug and his crew who were specialists in life senior center design and we incorporated them into our first project which was in Chickapee about was it 10 years ago Doug? About 10 years yeah. So that's really how we got started we we are not specialists to start in life life's life I guess aging design but we had an opportunity to partner with Doug and his team. They're really the senior center specialists and together we've done some really wonderful projects in the region. We're currently working together on a study over in East Hampton. We've worked on six projects with senior centers the communities. Doug can give you a little bit of a broader focus on what he's been accomplishing also. I appreciate that Amy and Haley and Board thank you so much for asking us to be here today. I'm Doug Gallo as Amy has stated. I am an architect and my business partner who is also my wife is a gerontologist and we started becoming very interested in senior centers when she became the director of a senior center quite honestly many decades ago and it kind of gave me the opportunity for an inside look at what a senior center was and this was back before the Americans with Disabilities Act and all sorts of issues regarding accessibility and the building that they were in is a senior center which was not originally designed as a senior center was quite very unfriendly to the older adult population in the community where she was working and we both at that point in time got very interested in creating environments that were friendly to the aging process. I have to admit when I was in my early 20s I wasn't thinking about aging very often but the more and more we started to get involved in senior center work I started to realize there is no us and them we are all aging every one of us including my little grandchildren now and it's a process that we all go through so in 2006 Ellen and I decided that we were going to start our own firm. I had been designing senior centers since 1985 and Ellen was doing consulting work with senior centers all over the country and we decided we were going to start our own firm so in 2006 we started Lifespan Design Studio. We didn't really realize at that point in time we were going to become a national firm but our first project we had been living in Baltimore we had to leave Baltimore because I had a non-compete with my partner at the principal level with another firm and we moved back to Ohio we had gone to college in Ohio we both went to Miami University where Ellen studied gerontology and I studied architecture and we would never would have left had the economy in the early 80s been so bad in the area so we decided to move back to Ohio. The first job we got was in New Jersey the second job we got was in Pennsylvania and the third job we got was in Whitby Island in the Puget Sound in the state of Washington and all of a sudden we were a national firm we didn't know it at the time since then we've worked on over a hundred senior center projects we've worked in 29 states we've teamed as we've been teaming with EDM with 43 architectural firms across the country working on projects where local architectural firms would be the architect of record and we would offer our expertise and as Amy said we've had the opportunity to work with EDM now for about 10 years we think it's a wonderful relationship we we work seamlessly with them they offer great architectural services with the emphasis on local participation local engineers local understanding of the physical terrain and all of a sudden how you navigate through the the various requirements of the state of Massachusetts and the local zoning and code officials and we bring the expertise of what a senior center is all about and what we feel we make the difference in what separates our team from other architects that may be designing senior centers is the fact that we do bring a gerontological slant to an understanding of the aging process and understand that as we get older our abilities change and some of those abilities are physical abilities some of those are cognitive abilities issues of arthritis issues of how our gate changes most of us in this picture are wearing glasses today I didn't start wearing glasses until I was in my 40s and that's a part of aging but taking all of those issues into account so as Amy talked about the fact and Haley you mentioned you're familiar with some of our work we started over in Chicopee which was a wonderful experience on a very interesting site we ended up with a an enter high enter low building because we built on the side of a hill and Haley which was another interesting site if you will because it was long and skinny and all of a sudden we were told there was going to be a library on the site also and we had to figure out how that was all going to work south Haley we had a very enjoyable experience working with the people in south Haley and as most project there's always some interesting challenges there was a baseball field on the site that we had to maintain and the site kind of zig zags around it but still I think that turned out to be a wonderful facility and we recently completed a study an analysis of their existing facility and how it could possibly be modified and added on to in Hampton so you know all of our projects aren't designed projects yet as Amy said we're we're just finishing up in East Hampton right now on a study of their existing building and trying to help them determine what they what they need in a facility whether it's in their existing building or whether the reality the reality would be better for them to be thinking about a new building you know really you need to start early thinking about all of those issues and it's not all about just creating a design problem it's it's you know what what type of site is appropriate how big is the building that's appropriate how much money is something going to cost and what kind of budgets are you need to be looking at and and really looking at just all of those types of factors and that's really what what we bring as a team you know to the clients that we work with and to have that local representation with EDM gives gives our clients in the area we think a real a real benefit of having of having that local representation and knowledge so that's kind of in a nutshell we wanted to give you the opportunity to ask questions or you know ask us anything or have any comments about where you are currently with with your existing facility and see if Amy and I can help you out in answering some questions for you thank you Mr. Gallo you're welcome thank you my first question would be why has this been placed on the agenda Halle well I don't I don't know if that's a question for our guests I think that's something we could talk about after they're gone but we have members of this council and members of our friends group and members of our senior community have all expressed the or not all but some of them have expressed that the building is not meeting their needs and that you know they might like something different they might like to modify the space any of you have ever been in the bank center you know you know it tends to be a little dark it can be somewhat difficult to navigate so I wanted to invite EDM here because I've gotten that feedback and just hopefully have them clarify what that process looks like and you know some things that we might consider if we if we did want to move forward on trying to advocate for some changes did you have some other firms lined up I decided to go with the firm that has I think had some of the biggest success here in the valley you know certainly I've I've been to Hadley I've seen pictures of South Hadley and Chickpea really fantastic work very thoughtful designs I know Dennis I think and Terry have you also been to the Hadley Senior Center so I think you two know it's really smart the way that it's laid out and how thoughtful the presentation is I have a question for our guest and that would be what would the chances be you knowing the communities of anything new being built in the town of Amherst what would be any constraints if there are any where would we even be able to identify any land I think that I mean those are all good questions and I think that the specifics to the the answer to that question is at this point in time we don't know and I think that you know developing or under having a better understanding of the senior center and how the senior center operates and the relationship that the senior center has with the community but I think that what we have found in the projects that we've worked on together in the projects that Ellen and I have worked on nationally as I like to say you need to you need to define the questions before you define the answers and and with the existing facility that you've got you know is is it renovatable can it be added onto what type of impact might that have on the on the building you know you need to also look at the building itself you know what kind of condition is the roof in what kind of condition are the windows in the heating and air conditioning system the plumbing system and so on but then also determining what your actual physical needs are and and you know we always like to truly believe that needs also include wants and desires you know we don't want to we don't want to give you something that's you know so bare bones that two years five years ten years down the road you're going to say you know we should have spent a little bit more or been a little bit more progressive in thinking about what the future might hold but really analyzing that and making a determination as to how big the building should be and then determining then how big a piece of property should be and so there may be other buildings in town that could be renovated there may be pieces of land that could be purchased or could be given to you you know just all of those types of factors that come into play and and it really is a you know kind of a spider web of options that that are out there and and what we think we like we think we bring to a discussion of this is kind of putting that in order and and you know creating a process and that process does not have to be a continuous linear process you know if there's an interest in the community to you know just kind of dip your toe in the water and start to find out what your needs really are what are some of the problems with your existing facility and what are some of the shortcomings a study can be done at a very initial level to get the process rolling it doesn't have to become a design you know a full-blown design process that's going to start at that and end with a ribbon cutting in a party you know because that's that can be a long and arduous effort and it can also be a very costly effort that maybe you can't make any financial commitments to at this time you know which is why something like South Hadley we started with a study we started with a with a study we were hired just to do the study as we were done as we're finishing up right now in east Hampton and we've also finished in Manchester, Massachusetts or Manchester Connecticut just recently and for now that's as far as we're going to take things if it ever moves forward beyond that the community will make that decision and decide whether or not they're going to continue working with us or whoever but it doesn't have to be taking off a big bite at one time. We did that with Hampton too and they're currently fundraising so we completed and delivered a nice study for them and it's been a couple of years since that but they're still working with their friends in the senior center and the town to fundraise. What I'm thinking of is something one of my friend's father who's an architect would say to her about her ministerial duties when we were in seminary always remember function before form and I think it's imperative that we decide before moving another step is figuring out how we want the space to function for whom and a number of other questions that go along with determining what our function would be and then we can decide to turn it over to architects or designers who can help us to create the space to fulfill the functions. Jacqueline that's a very good point and I think the only place where I would politely disagree with you is that's what we do is we guide you through the process of determining what that functionality is because you're absolutely 100 correct as far as we are concerned functionality is everything. There are plenty of pretty buildings that have been on the cover of architecture magazines that don't work and I always find that so disheartening to think that somebody spent literally in cases tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for buildings that don't function well and bringing a gerontology slant to the design of a building such as and Hailey made comment about the building is dark. Well the Illuminating Engineer Society of America has recommendations of foot candle levels which is lighting levels for individuals over the age of 65. I know many electrical engineers that don't know that fact but as an architect who designs for older adults I just reviewed a building today that we're designing that the engineer gave me his foot candle levels and I wrote them back and I said these are all too low. Older adults eyes need more light because we develop cataracts which is just a thickening of the lens and it will happen to all of us over our lifetime and because of it we need more light. When we talk about the finishes throughout a building we've all walked on carpeting that feels like we're slogging through mud and if you've ever walked through an airport with bad carpeting you feel like you're dragging a suitcase through mud so the appropriateness of finishes is critically important but we also right size spaces based on the activities and the functionality within the building and so as I often like to say and it's a little snotty thing to say a little bit but a building that a room that is one foot wide by 100 feet long is still 100 square feet but it's a worthless space because you can't use it space so it's important to really right size of space for the activities and the functionality that you're trying to do so what I'm trying to make the point of is you can take that effort to a certain point but eventually we feel it's very important that you translate that into what that really means from space the relationships of those spaces to one another when you when you look at Hadley and look at South Hadley and look at look at Chickapee they're three very very different buildings but I could walk you through every one of those buildings and point out to you why so much of the building is the same because we believe that senior centers operationally as well need to function a certain way you know there needs to be one front door so everybody's coming in the same front door so it's safety concerns it's your signing in concerns the people at the front desk see who's coming and going concerns rather than having doors all over the building and people can just come and go as they please because you also never know who are those people that you don't want in the building walking in the door and and we have a lot of real life stories about people walking into buildings to do harm and and so you know those types of public safety issues are extremely important as well. I'd love to carry on a longer conversation and sort of get into the end of our time for this segment. Well I think we should still have if people have questions I can cut my part down because I know Anne has one and and I actually wanted Doug if you could talk a little bit about flooring design and when the floor meets the wall so I'll cut my presentation down Chad. Okay so we have time. I have a quick thought and that is we all know that a new building in Amherst takes an extraordinary amount of time we're talking years and years to go through the process and I'm wondering whether you also could engage in an evaluation of the building we have now and how to make it a more useably usable functional and aesthetically welcoming space. Do you do that as well as plan to design new? Absolutely and that and that's what we did in Hamden. They have an existing building a very nice building on a very nice site didn't have enough parking didn't have enough space in the building but the building had land around it and and in addition to creating additional space to that building we also created a newly renovated space for better functionality and better flow through the building for the people that were using the facility. The building over in East Hampton is an old public post office and and we've done part of our study for that has looked at how we how we could renovate that existing building. That building is is quite challenging though because it's it's the main floor is up off the ground about six or seven feet and the accessibility issues are are quite difficult because it's a historic structure and we're not allowed to change the exterior of the building so but but and yes the bottom line is the solution does not need to be a brand new building. What we do find out often though is with especially older buildings and depending on their structural limitations it can cost more money to renovate a building than to build a new building. The other thing that needs to be considered about renovating a building is you need to shut the building down for a period of time during construction and then the senior center function has to either be relocated someplace temporarily or maybe around the community or maybe literally which we've seen in some cases literally shut down for a period of time and then you've got to create the momentum to open things back up when the building is new but but the short answer is yes you know looking at existing structures or looking at other existing buildings in the community that could possibly be renovated you know which may give you a leg up on getting ahead of the process is absolutely part of the process. We also look at sites and look at look at buildings in location to how vehicular traffic flow is dealt with if we've got if we've got a population of older adults who are driving we want to make that travel from home to the senior center as simple as possible and creating a lot of left-hand turns or a lot of a lot of turns against traffic where there aren't you know stop signs or stop lights might be more difficult for certain locations in the community than others so we really do evaluate it based on thinking about who the users in the community are. Thank you. How much is something like that cost? Okay I have an average for a study. It depends at what level of the study is and and how you know are we looking at multiple sites are we looking at some some different locations different buildings you know but in that regard and and what we have found in some of the communities around you is they have hiring or procurement rules that as long as they're not spending more the next number of dollars they can go out and hire somebody directly you know so in a situation like this potentially it's a 10 to 15 thousand dollar task or you know it could be a 25 thousand dollar task but we're not talking a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand you know think about ultimately if once it's a design project your design fees are going to be somewhere between eight to twelve percent of the construction cost so you know if it's if it's a you know do the math but if you know if it's a five million dollar project you could be paying the design fees of approximately five hundred thousand dollars so we're not we're not talking that type of a commitment until until it you know the project becomes a true design project okay i'll just if the massachusetts procurement loss um if it's under 30 000 you can hire directly without going to public rfq so some communities have done that yes can i ask a question i'm going to recognize myself i was going to say chance has been up for a couple of years but it's here yeah and then i see some hands up so i'm going to recognize myself and then christina um gene would be after that although i don't see a hand up well there we go there's a little button at the bottom of your screen okay sorry um i'm going to ask two questions at once i again not sure how much time we have here but um one is uh there's a department of elder affairs pay for this and two um you mentioned one door um jack glenn and some others have um you know mentioned starting with uh the seniors themselves and asking their needs and designing it behind that are you familiar with the cutting edge senior centers that are multi-generational absolutely it is a matter of fact go ahead and um how about other designs that actually start with the seniors of the town the information gathering is is absolutely critical and how you choose to do that um is your choice and and we've been very successful with surveys whether they've been electronic surveys or on paper surveys most of them we do both ways if someone says oh i don't use my computer or don't use a computer or don't have a computer we have a paper copy um we've done public input with public forums we've done focus groups with with smaller groups of people all of that opportunity for public input can can be done um and and a lot of good information is gathered we also find that that a lot of success comes from uh the client creating a building committee and and having representation within within the the senior membership and possibly even some other people within the community um that that are interested in the project it's also important to be thinking about the next generations that are going to be coming on because you know gen xers and and gen y um they're aging just like we're all aging and and you know gen xers are going to turn 60 in two years so uh you know that's that's kind of a fascinating thought in itself with regard to other designs as i said we've worked on over 100 senior centers across the project across the country um last year we were we were extremely honored that one of our projects in charlottesville virginia was selected um as a merit award winner from the design for aging a component of the american institute of architects is the the top senior center in the country um it is a multi-generational facility um i am biased obviously but i think it's a spectacularly beautiful building that is extremely functional the director of that senior center is peter thompson and he literally can go on for hours and tell you how and why the building is designed the way it is because of what he learned through our process um it cost a boatload of money uh he's a not-for-profit he raised every penny and it cost 22 million or ultimately they raised 22 million dollars um and uh it even has a phase two that would be a full gymnasium with walking track and locker rooms that the site and the parking was designed to accommodate that in the future um and it took uh 12 years from the time we first started working with him to the time that the building was completed so um uh everybody needs patience in this process but uh uh yes we've we've done senior centers as small as uh what's the leap we just recently did one i think that's 1300 square feet and the biggest one we've done is 65 000 square feet and everything in between we've got two senior centers in oklahoma city one built one under construction that has a gymnasium five thousand square foot equipped fitness room um a lap pool and uh just a spectacular facility so um they come in all shapes and sizes and at all price tags all right christina christina you're immune there i am there you are i'm basically um going back to what anna and burton said about having uh looking at the facility that we have and looking at the constraints that we might have and the capacity for renewing things and making it more functional is that there is there is a health center which was added to that building from the time we were you know we all all of us moved here from other places that was not there we have a health center and so we have to take that into consideration they have their own entrance and they have their own exit but they're still in the building so if construction is going to be done those things have to be taken into the consideration it not only a senior citizen building the way it used to be it is now sharing a health a complete health clinic and so um whatever we decide as far as making a study and uh to be informed about the design which is the first step it has to take into consideration that there are other players in that building and then the other thing is that us among us have to once we get the information from the design folks we have to determine whether how we're going to start a capital campaign because you can't do anything without money and so um those are just my thoughts and and those are those are you know very real real world thoughts and those are extremely important um capital campaigns a lot of times when we're working on projects we will produce materials for the capital campaign both in in in written materials and whether Hayley would be the person putting a lot of that information together or who it might be but we would be you know could provide you with a rendering and graphics and floor plans um you know the pretty pictures of of of what the facility is going to be and we've even been involved in in the capital campaign um effort where maybe there would be a public meeting or two and be able to introduce the project and talk about uh you know the whys and wherefores of the design and and how how things came about but um you know you're absolutely right that um that that raising the funds to make it happen um especially the early money when when uh you're waiting to see who's who are the people that are going to write the checks um it can can be uh you know a frustrating experience until the ball gets rolling all right jean okay so just to kind of follow up with Christina I'd like to think logically and long term and as we talk about this obviously the first kind of big step sounds like a study but before we get to the study what should we be doing and thinking and questioning and gathering information on because it would seem to me we've got to do some homework before before that so yeah do you have a process or could you offer any answers yeah and and I will um I'm writing something down here we could design our own we we very very often when we start a study um we will kind of prep the client and the client group whoever is defined as the client group um with some questions and some talking points but even before we before we actually start the study effort um just so that you're not being hit you know fresh with with a question that it's like well I'm really I really wish you'd asked me that question last week so I could give it some thought um but even before that I think that that what you should do is be looking at your facility critically be looking at your senior center critically um what's the entrance experience like you know do you have to go upstairs to get in the front door um you know is the building so old that the doorways are narrow because they they they didn't need to be wide enough to meet the americans with disabilities act um I will also tell you that the americans with disabilities act is not an age friendly civil code and there are all kinds of things about the americans with disabilities act that um we we are always saying is the low bar and we go way beyond with universal design a design for aging because there are just so many issues um and bathroom design and toilet heights and where the grab bars that aren't required by the ADA actually go to help people get up and down off the often using the toilet and so on um just all of those types of details so I think looking at the building with a critical eye um you know there's nothing wrong with making a list of all of these things are wrong um you know that are that are problematic I'm sure Haley could also give you a lot of insight to possibly why there are certain activities and certain programs that aren't being offered in this facility now because you don't have the space that's appropriate to do so um you know do you have enough bathrooms is is the heating and air conditioning and ventilating system in the building functioning well or is it noisy you know um the the senior senator that Ellen first operated they were so excited because they raised funds to put new air conditioning in the building and when the air conditioning was turned on it sounded like you were in a jet airplane hangar and nobody could hear each other speak and it and you literally had a breeze blowing through the room and everybody just had to stop and wait until the air conditioning stopped so they could continue to talk so um but I think you know those types of things are important I think one of the biggest issues that is always not always often overlooked with senior centers is parking and good quality parking where pedestrians and cars aren't in the same traffic lanes people should be where people can walk and cars should be where cars can drive um you know we've got in the next few years we're going to have more and more electric cars which don't make any noise and you don't want to be walking where their cars are and you don't even hear that the cars are coming so I I think just starting a discussion um amongst yourselves and and you know or maybe Haley could take a little bit of a of a an initiative of even possibly putting together a small survey or talking points and and Haley we would certainly you know be very very open to you know helping you on a pro bono basis to just kind of pass some ideas of of thought of discussion points back and forth that maybe you could create your own your own focal groups for some of this discussion if if necessary or if that was a direction you wanted to go so um I think just you know looking at things with a critical eye we I worked on a senior center about 20 years ago in Baltimore City that literally a portion of the floor in one corner of the building had collapsed and it was a multi-story building and they they had put police tape around this corner of the building and when I walked in the building I said oh my gosh how come the health department hasn't shut you down and she said well they've given us a calendar and said buy such and such a date we have to have this repaired but then when we got into discussions about what we wanted to do or what they wanted to do with the new building uh or not with the new building with renovating the existing building there were literally people who said we don't need anything changed our senior center is beautiful and it was like but the floor is literally collapsing you know I mean you've got to you've got to be a little bit more of a of critical of an existing situation than looking at it with rose colored glasses and saying yeah but the roof isn't leaking and it was like well no the roof was leaking was why the floor got wet and why the floor was collapsing you know so um you know be critical about those things and and you know is is it dark you know lighting isn't good enough what's going on here and we don't have enough toilets we have problems with where the bathrooms are located and so on and so on and and just start to start to make notes to yourself and I think that that that gets you a long way because I think once you start that and start passing your your ideas around that will really start to spur other ideas and and other comments and people say yeah you know that parking lot really isn't very good you know and you have to walk between cars to get to the building and I have a walker so every once in a while I scrape so and so's car and it really you know ticks them off and I'm annoyed that I've scraped the side of their car that kind of thing thank you Doug that was really helpful and I do appreciate your pro bono offer on survey design help because yeah that's certainly something that we would like to consider and I think all of us know that a lot of those points are really hitting home but it'll be good to involve more seniors you know make it a real true community effort so I really appreciate you and Amy being here tonight Hayley Hayley just run real quick you had you had mentioned one question you wanted to ask and I didn't want to just avoid that oh thank you um the difference between when the floor meets the wall what should we keep in mind for seniors one of the things that's really important with regard to the selection of colors and the selection of finishes is again thinking about the aging process and and I'm in need of new glasses I feel like I have to look out the bottom of my glasses all the time because my my vision is with COVID and all I haven't been to the eye doctor in a couple of years but anyway taking into account what we actually see and how we actually perceive it as we age as I mentioned the lens on our eye gets thicker and the lens on our eye has a yellow tinge to it so all of a sudden now everything we're seeing has a yellow tinge overlaid on the colors that we're looking at and what the result of that can be is that colors can muddy colors can get muddy and when you get into some of your browns or you get into some of your blues or your darker your your darker hues they can kind of muddy out so it's really important to visually identify be able to visually identify where the changes in surfaces are and where the changes are in the different materials so what we like to do is to make the floor an un busy pattern you know we've all seen in those big fancy hotels where you walk in the door and there are those huge flowery prints of of carpeting and quite honestly if you sit and really watch that there is a there is a population of older adults usually over the age of 85 that are experiencing some sort of dementia and whether it's whether it's drug related or whether it's cognitive issues but we all know about dementia and Alzheimer's and so on and it exists within the populations of of adults age 50 and older but those big flowery prints often you'll watch people walk from flower to flower to flower because it's they're they're little arrival points or sometimes when the carpeting has some dark spots in it people avoid walking around they walk around those dark dark spots because they're perceived as potentially being an elevational difference so simple pattern simple carpeting very dense low pile carpet so it so you don't scuff your feet on it and feel like you're going to trip but then clearly identifying where the floor ends and where the wall begins and and in most buildings and I'm sure yours is one usually there's a base that goes around the building and whether it's painted wood or whether it's rubber or vinyl but to have good color contrast so that you've got the floor the base is the indicator and then the wall and and then you've got doorways and door frames again good visual indicators so when you look at those things they're recognizable and oh I forgot my glasses today but I can still see good enough or I've got low vision or you know I should have gone to the eye doctor two years ago or whatever it may be or maybe you've had a stroke and it's actually affected some of your optic nerve and you're still trying to reorient light switches light receptacles should be color contrasted for against the wall as well so that you easily can find those controls we also mount receptacles at 24 inches off the floor rather than 18 or 12 and we locate switches at 42 inches off the floor rather than 48 inches off the floor because leaning over to get to something can be difficult for some people reaching a little bit higher as we get older we lose our shoulder mobility and strain we also use paddle switches rather than toggle switches because they're much easier to use by just hitting them with your hand rather than having the small object dexterity of reaching up and having to grab that little that little knob to you know to flip a switch so again those are all the kinds of details but the issue of of all of those factors Haley and also the appropriate lighting levels so that you now can actually see what you're looking at as you're walking through the building so again just a lot of detail and a lot of a lot of information that has to go into every one of those design decisions throughout a building appropriately for designing for the the older an older population and designing for us as we all age thank you that was really informative that was all my questions I don't know if anyone else has any but you know again Amy Doug thank you we're so admire your beautiful work and hopefully you'll be seeing a little bit more of us well we appreciate that and let you finish out but I just wanted to quickly say I very much appreciate the fact that you let us go over the allotted time but please that you're you're interested in and it was a real pleasure thank you thank you very much thank you thank you thank you bye bye did I miss the money question the the money answer EOEA would probably not pay for something like that of elder affairs or perhaps through a grant but they wouldn't pay for a study on their own you know that is something that we would absolutely have to look to the friends to help us with you know we really want to make sure that they are on board okay it's not like the library or the schools there's a entity that that ships money out if there was a grant but yeah five projects ahead of this one fire station etc most of them get paid for out of taxes from the state this one you're saying we would have to raise all the money I'm saying that there I'm saying that there's not a direct pipeline of funds from EOEA to furnish studies so if we wanted to pursue that we would have to do a specific grant from EOEA to get those funds but I don't know when something like that would be available can you tell me who would build it where the money would come from not the study so perhaps some of it could be subsidized from the state via grants but again we're going to be on the hook for the majority of that cost okay that's helpful so you want to continue the meeting I do yeah so I can cut my update pretty short I had some things staffing wise I was going to update people on but I'll go through it really quick because next month I'm going to invite them so we now have all the positions filled at the senior center we have an admin assistant we have a volunteer and outreach coordinator we have a 20 hour a week receptionist and we have an intern who's working three days a week three half days a week at the senior center so we are back in business in terms of being fully staffed I can already tell that there's a huge difference from our incumbent staff they're feeling a lot less stress used to be the case if somebody called out Helen had to go drive a route sometimes she was doing two routes in a day now we have hands on deck to ease some of that pressure off of her you know we have really capable hardworking people and I'm going to have them come to next month's meeting so you can all meet them and I'm really happy about that a quick plug I was asked by the planning department to talk to you about the courtyard at the bank center so that's that little square outside room 101 the town is looking at some funding to refurb that area and they wanted our input on that so if people could send some ideas that would be really much appreciated I was thinking maybe we could do like green space have some chest top tables so people can sit outside and play chess that's a great intergenerational activity so other ideas just send them my way as quickly as possible because it has to be done by the end of the month and then there is one other thing because so we're going to talk about directions and new leadership you know it's time to make a selection for our new leadership team and I did want to just point out because some of you had indicated that you didn't you couldn't load the PDF maybe it was a little too big so I'm going to share my screen for a second and I'm just going to highlight this is a COA guide for board members and this is put out by the executive office of elder affairs and it kind of talks about what is the relationship between a council and their director so I'm going to there's it's a long document I'm going to just jump ahead to page 13 so you and your director right so we have new members this should be pretty helpful for you hopefully um council on aging directors senior services directors they're hired by the town so I'm appointed by the town manager to be the director of the senior services and that also includes the council on aging so I report to paul pockelman he has the right to hire me he has the right to fire me um where the council on aging comes in is that you're you're the advisory piece right so I report to paul but I seek your advice you know you help me make decisions about where the senior center goes what programs do we do what new initiatives do we take um and the really important piece about that and you know not to be overly negative but this last paragraph under policy and management the board does not direct the director I go to you for council and advice but it is not the case that you could say you know we want you to do x and and I have to do it I I have to report to paul but I really welcome all of your feedback I really welcome all of your input and I think I've made that pretty clear you know it's it's no longer new really I don't feel new anymore this is month nine headed into month ten almost a full year on the job and I think in that time I've I've made it pretty clear that I really appreciate how much um you know you contribute wonderful feedback and you all have really great ideas um but I just want to make that distinction really clear particularly since we have new board members um but that that's really the the hierarchy of how this is supposed to function so I'll stop sharing my screen now because I know we we don't have a lot of time and I want to make sure that I answer Jacqueline's question and that we can talk about coa direction um I just want to know if we could get a hard copy of that because it's kind of stringing with on the the aging eyes it should be eyes it should be in the binder I know uh rosemary had put together some really beautiful binders they're available at the senior center if you don't have a physical copy okay um but and I'm happy to print it if you don't have it at home I can mail it to you or something okay okay I appreciate that thank you I would like to um make a comment if I can and that is um really um I'm relatively new on the board too probably what a year or something now and I never saw myself as I saw myself in this position as a person to support the senior center director I I was clear from the beginning that that was my role it was one of the reasons why I did not join the leadership team is because of other things but I always made it clear that I was going to be helpful to you and that you set the agenda and then along with your agenda we will work with you so I never had that impression that we were your boss and I don't know who else has that impression but um I certainly would like to apologize for anyone who have treated you that way because I definitely see myself in an advisory board position to help you so that we can help our seniors together that's how I see it well thank you Christina and I really value you've given me some great advice and mentorship and it's not to be you know any one particular person but I did hear um you know some comments from some people that they felt like you know the director really should take a step back and perhaps be less involved so I just wanted to make sure that we all kind of had that same understanding that this is the guideline from the state this is the guidelines from the town I think by and large you know I like I said I'm so appreciative you've all contributed really fantastic pieces to the council and like I said we're fully staffed we even have positions that we didn't have before the pandemic you know like the intern making sure we have the receptionist like we're in a really solid foundation now where there had been a lot of instability so I really just want everyone to come together and have a consistent clear path because now we can really affect some real change that's the tremendous thing we can do some really important things now because we we have the resources that we need thank you so that was that's all I'll like I said I'm gonna save most of my update for next month when you can meet Al and Julia and you're you're both gonna you're all gonna love them the same way I do and did you have a comment Chad yeah just a question do we have a van is there a driver there is no driver we do have a van it just has to get picked up so that has to be coordinated with someone who can drive the van and we need two people to go down to the pvta pick it up but it is ours we also need to figure out some other logistics like where will it be parked you know what's going to be the procedure once it gets snowy and then we will be using those ARPA funds from the town to hire a driver I'll more than likely have the admin assistant be the one coordinating rides Al can definitely handle that and so yeah I would say in the near future we'll be able to have that capacity again will it be able to fit in the underground garage do you know off the top of my head I don't know I'm hopeful that it will because that would be a ideal but I don't remember the exact height now okay it looks like your section of the agenda is totally done correct yes you're gonna okay then it says a coa direction and new leadership selection I see 40 minutes I'm gonna just sort of arbitrarily estimate that at let's see we've got a half hour left oh maybe it maybe it could go 30 minutes approval of minutes announcements there's no one here to announce I don't believe they couldn't join us today unfortunately we'd have I don't know let's call it let's say 20 minutes instead of 40 minutes how does that sound to people yeah yeah it was 10 minutes to wrap up the meeting at the end let me make a little statement here new leadership selection is it true that Dennis did not drop out of the whatever it's called co co something or the other position it Dennis had only had only ever been part of the vice chair and my understanding is that he would like to continue the vice chair oh okay that's all I heard that you dropped out all right I volunteered two months ago maybe three months ago to chair after I volunteered it was you know moved or a motion that it only be two or three months so I wouldn't have volunteered if I do that but I think my position is up I don't know if Dennis's is we also have a third position it is up okay we also because that was in the same motion right okay so we have three positions what we did in the past was we had people just go ahead and volunteer and then had a motion to accept to accept those we have no nominating committee this is one of the reasons I wanted to get the minutes right several months ago that talked about overlapping terms so that we could have some continuity and some length of time in a position so that we could have a nominating committee so my suggestion and I'm open to what the members say is that we see if there's any volunteers it's like a straw poll see if there's any volunteers for the two co-chairs and the vice chair is that the right wording now I'm starting to get it after three months if there are three people who want to volunteer for those positions just very quickly the co-chairs one of the other them facilitates the meeting as I have done today with help from Hailey and let's see what else are some of the responsibilities so the chair co-chairs you know they might do press releases from Jacqueline she has to get on the agenda from last month for this month so it would be things like gathering items for the agenda Hailey publishes them prints them up and publishes them on the on the town site I'm not sure what all the new roles in in those positions are because they have switched recently to my tenure of being in the organization so anyway those of you who have been around long enough know what the know what the roles are and what they do and if there's any volunteers that would be great we can talk about them once they volunteer I think that when we change the function of leadership we did the co-chair for the very reason well not the very reason but for one of the reasons that might have been given in the past where one person didn't feel he or she wanted to take the total responsibility as chair and since there were three of us then there was were you were you still considered vice chair Dennis because we were functioning sort of and and we had set it up so that the the work that needed to be done in the functioning was built into that tripartite or tri leadership model yeah I as far as me being in the in the vice chair yeah yes excuse but the real was to be done between the two between the two co-chairs and then there was a third person there were three of us and I was supposed to be the third one no um well when when I was serving it was it was pat and rosemary and me right and who was the third you were the third pat and I and rosemary were the team okay leadership team very good I'm gonna backtrack and I would I will not I will not deny you the opportunity that's definitely not what I'm trying to do I'm just trying to get it make it clear I'm gonna backtrack hopefully it'll clarify things a little bit um two years ago I suggested that um we have um shared responsibility for the roles not to create new role new names and new roles but as we age um we don't have a lot of energy and we shared some of the tasks um would um somebody would be ill um medical appointments etc things that happen in aging and that we could take the roles of what is traditional president secretary and treasurer we could take those roles and fill them but in instances of need we could slip out of that and somebody else for instance I'm the chair I I facilitate the meeting somebody else could slip into that we could do that as three members of leadership to share responsibilities learn the different paths to itself give each other person a break in that yeah and there was some concern that that would be very difficult for the senior center director to get an agenda out well I haven't been writing an agenda the past three meetings and the agenda's gotten out so we could continue that um we can use the titles of two co-chairs and a vice chair but I think the responsibilities are still the same that the president does the presidential duties in most organizations the secretary does that as done in most organizations and so forth so I know I took a little time there sorry I hope it clarifies thank you and and and I think it's important to remember what you touched on it's about working together and figuring out how we can maximize the resources that we bring to the table and the resources that we are um to accomplish what it is we are setting forth to accomplish well the best thing that I saw this new bylaw do is it allowed three members to get together and it's a little different than the open meeting law because they can do the planning of the organization they can pull the agenda together they can do some of these things that the open meeting law says you have to have a forum for yet those three now in that role can do that they can you know do the secretary, treasurer, president type things if you look at the bylaws you can only help prepare the agenda with the director you still can't violate open meeting law even if you're part of the subcommittee you still have to conduct the business in the open public you know you can say that these are things we'll talk about but you can't violate open meeting law just because you're a chair or co-chair and actually I know Anne and Jean have their hands up so I'm just going to also share my screen for the the actual bylaws themselves which talk about having a chair or co-chairs um you know so we do have a parameter there it is um but I know Anne you had your hand up first I think these are the revised bylaws yes this is um bylaws circa where's the year on them the end of 2011 yeah 2021 it's also and it's everyone should have a binder if you don't have a binder I have extras at the senior center and they they talk about all these things so yes I have my hand up because I'm having been on many committees and chaired many this is this seems like a confused for me it's a confusing and structure so one of my questions was going to be who's taking minutes the name is terry terry you're on mute okay secretary so terry is the secretary and she's taking minutes right correct I'm I'm trying I'm new and I'm trying to get a very good of how this works because I'm you know I'm used to a chairperson and then a vice chair in case the chairperson can't better and a secretary and do we have a treasurer do we need a treasurer um we we don't because we cannot legally fundraise that's what the friends group is for so we we don't really need a treasurer okay but we do have a fiduciary responsibility is there a liaison between the meetings of this council and the friends yes Dennis is on the friends group you're in the spotlight again I'm just trying to get oriented as to ask all the questions you want obviously I'm I'm not in a position to volunteer for anything first meeting but I am trying to get a sense of how you work who puts together the agenda I do understand that that shed has been the person that is at least facilitating the meeting so that we're not all talking at once and so that we begin and end on time but other than that I'm not quite sure how this functions and I just need a better orientation I think yeah so the way that it's supposed to work is you have a chair or co-chairs per the bylaws and that the the chair and the co-chair would work with the director on creating the agenda the director I submit the meeting to the town hall then we would talk about at the open meeting the chair or co-chairs would then facilitate the meeting and that's I think in a nutshell you know it's you know the chair co-chair is the duo that I'm working with to prepare for the meeting you know I might say to them you know attendance is very low at the senior center how we need to put that on the agenda so we can talk about ways to get people in the door and promote certain activities or likewise the chair might say we need to talk about how you know I saw a senior fall in downtown Amherst because the sidewalk wasn't right and you know please put that on the agenda so we can talk about it so that's the back and forth relationship it's me working with them to create the the planning the structure for the meeting but then we come to the the council meeting once a month to talk about all those things in the public forum and in the meantime are we permitted or discouraged from communicating with you directly anyone can reach out to me directly that's fine you just can't talk amongst yourselves about things we will deliberate on later so you know you couldn't send an email and say oh you know you we need to make sure that we're together on this topic and then you know no deliberation in is it is it possible for us to email or call you with a suggestion that we'd like to welcome that thank you gene you are next yeah gene had a question well I just wanted to say I even though I'm brain spanking new I would be a man of both that's helping out however I can and whatever sort of leadership role you you need do you have the onboarding manual or the board manual not memorize no memorize you own you have a copy yes I do okay I second that nomination that's enough for a vote I I just wanted to comment on I think it was and I think it could be very helpful I can I I started talking can I speak please do okay I I just started chiming in there I think it's it's a good idea organization only speaking to have an orientation for new members so that they don't learn by default when they fault when they do it faulty then they learn I think it would be very fitting and proper I think it would have been helpful to me as well so yes I I I thank you for bringing that that up all right I I'm gonna assume your hands are down now and move to let's see there was a motion and a second move to count the votes for gene Horrigan to be what was there a specific position you said any position chair co-chair what was the other one vice chair again the main thing that we're doing right now is we're having the the chair facilitate the meeting would you like to stay out of that for a while or is that something that you're willing to take on being I would be most interested in sharing whatever I might do just because I am new and I I'd like to share yeah I just think it it makes for a more enriching experience to be able to have somebody to bounce ideas off of and also reduce the workload a little too so yeah all right so are you both putting in the direction of co-chair or vice chair um go for co-chair yeah so chair go can I ask what the what the vice chair does nothing okay not true and on a committee so small you know it seems to me I I definitely see the value of having co-chairs I think for many reasons but I'm just wondering you know especially asking gene what she wants to do unless she wants co-chair vice chair but nobody you know what is what does the vice chair do it would fill in you have a manual so it fills in so if let's say we have if it's just one chair and that chair can't preside over the meeting the vice chair would step in and fill that role if it's a two person co-committee and a vice chair if for some reason both people weren't available the vice chair would fill in you know if we need to help drafting the agenda if we need to help running the meeting Dennis is right by and large it's not the most active role but you may be called upon to enact your your position also it's a good spot to be in because of my liaison position because I'm also the secretary of the friends good that's our liaison yeah yeah yeah there's the link yeah thanks for the thanks all right so the question still stands would you pick one or the other or not necessarily are you talking is that directed at me sorry okay um I guess although as tempting as it would be to be vice chair and not have any serious responsibilities just have to do fill in I get I guess I'll step to the plate and try out all right yay all right so I'll go for the for the vote I see Karen um she votes for Jean's and does um Terry Dennis okay all five it looks like two four no six is it six two two four yeah six Jacqueline what's your um are you still with us I'm fumbling here yes I vote yay okay so that's unanimous for Terry's entry I don't know what's happened to my technology here well we can hear you okay we'll settle so who can join this woman in helping to fill positions for the Amherst Council on Aging any others if you can't do it along oh are you are you Chad are you dropping out of well it seems I volunteered for I did what Jean did put myself in front but as soon as I did it was changed to only a two or three month position so I'm out along with Dennis we had another that dropped out so um you know I see it's uh 620 I'm gonna say one last time is anybody want to step into the uh void of leadership for the organization and I know you're new well I could be vice chair and I'm not a person who you know who shuns that kind of responsibility but I think that to have the two newest people on this group share the responsibility of co-chairing is is not wise not only that but we can't volunteer somebody else they can only volunteer themselves now I understand I'm just saying the wisdom tells me that the two the the two new gals on the block should not be the two co-chairs at this point I am not saying later down the line that I would not like to step in but I don't think that's wise right now all right thank you does is there anything that stops you chat from running again and putting right now you're doing a fine job excuse me you're doing a fine job yeah right now I'm really signed up heavy for amherst neighbors I'm one of the not quote founders but I helped start both hampton neighbors and amherst neighbors and yes they do beautiful work too yeah yeah yeah well is there anyone who might just want to be vice chair you know maybe we could get a chair and a vice chair right now and revisit the the second co-chair yeah I'd be willing to return as vice chair right so I'm I'm gonna say um do you uh realize that this is a long term or were again maybe here because hailey shortened it last time I actually didn't shorten it chat that was the motion at the meeting no I did not at that meeting it was said that we would be a three month term that was nothing that I changed after the meeting it happened at the time I said you brought it sounded like so I just want to make sure that people know that you could go back and watch the video exactly that was what we agreed upon at that time yeah watch the video and you'll see how it transpires at any rate is this one a short one or is this one a longer regular until next July whatever people want to vote on and have it and have that be the case were you two realizing you were stepping in for three months or did you think it was for a year until next July maybe Dennis what what were you thinking at this as of right now I was expecting that it would be going until July or the end of the term next year okay yeah I would assume so yeah all right so let's um we have one in in position um does anybody want a second Dennis is um running a second we have two uh yep two seconds for Terry's uh notation calling the vote um I'm going to go in the same order Karen yes yes uh Jean yes Dennis Terry um pro Anne hi did she vote Christina hi and Jacqueline I yep and I vote as well Terry so that's um another unanimous great next month you guys can take it on your shoulders of whether you want to fill that third position or not I'm sure with a little more time somebody else will come up I'm not going to say that you should give up hope but you know I think it could it could happen over the next couple of couple of meetings now I lost my agenda oh here it is so congratulations on reaching those two positions um I'm not sure about CLA direction what that means that's what we just talked about so we have to approve the minutes next I thought that was a relation of senior service director and council on agent okay yep approval of minutes is next the only thing I want to say is I've been named in three different ways on that document so I'd like to have at least corrected to one name I don't know if other people have read the minutes and have any points that they'd like to mention but that's mine what would you like change shed I have my name I've been named in three different names there what do you mean Charles Fuller the third LICSW Charles Fuller Chad and Chad Fuller just what do you want to read just Chad is fine just Chad you see on the screen that's usually what I go by okay name on the screen okay are there any other notations that people would like to make on the minutes okay no motion to accept as is what those changes one two three Christina four is is that is that something you want to vote affirmative Jacqueline yes okay five so that passes as well uh let's see next meeting yeah I'm going to announce it all the way there was no one here topics not reasonably anticipated in the last 48 hours of the meeting I have heard none I see none from the screens in the zoom right now it could could we could it come from the floor could I I I think that one of the topics upcoming the choosing choosing the Medicare Medicare plus uh insurance agencies I think that for some of us there's a lack of real clarity about what it is we're committing ourselves to and and a comparative analysis being done and I think it could be helpful maybe for the center to sponsor not favoring anybody but somebody who can give the pros and cons of at several of the different insurance programs for Medicare signups yeah yeah um I have someone coming in at the end of this month let me just pull it up really quick as you ever met with John uh Wednesday September 28th at one o'clock we're going to have a health insurance specialist nonpartisan he'll be there to talk about uh Medicare open enrollment um what the different plans are and then we do have shine counselors as well if someone wanted to take advantage of that better to sign up now we're about to hit open enrollment in little less than a month and so the the counselors are going to be kind of pushed to capacity um so if that's something you need call the senior center get on our waiting list and and come to the the presentation at the end of the month the presentation is that like a zoom meeting that's what I was um I've been getting bits and pieces of information and being enlightened and for instance we make assumptions that Medicare plus is a real plus for seniors and I think that it's important for them to to know that know what it what it is you mean Medicare you mean Medicare advantage thank you thank you but it's not really an advantage thank you thank you and and as seniors I think we tend to be accepting of information that that's passed on and to give to give our seniors um a hand at being able to understand the complexity of a system that's not designed for us to understand that's true I'll send you his info directly because it is going to be an in-person but he is available for appointments so I'll send you his phone in his email Jacqueline and if anybody else wants it just let me know and I'll get that to you too okay I see it's 6 30 anyone who who wants to drop out feel free we're going to do a few more small things um but feel free to drop out if you need to Jacqueline was there uh something last last month you put on a request for something on the agenda would you like to reiterate that again or is that pretty well gone by yeah that's gone by for the moment thank you thank you all right um oh okay so it is um basically announcement um next coa meeting Thursday October 13th at 5 p.m take a motion for adjournment I so move okay I see one vote yes any others two three four five I'll be six so that passes and uh it was my pleasure serving you as meeting facilitator for two months thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you chat thank you see you next month bye bye all right thank you take care of you all right goodbye