 Hello everyone and welcome to Inside Leather History of Fireside Chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe, the host and the producer of the chats. The Fireside Chat series is a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. This evening, I am on the Zoom chat with Gretchen Rene, who was, I want to get this right, you were Alaska State Boot Black 2018 International Ms. Boot Black 2019. Correct. Okay. And it's very late in the evening in Chicago, but because of the time change, it's only seven o'clock for you this evening. So I'm glad we can sit down and do your chat. Gretchen, let's begin right at the beginning. Tell me a little bit about your growing up, where you're from, your family. Born and raised up here in Alaska, mainly Anchorage, so South Central Alaska. And I have one older sister. My parents lived nowadays about a two and a half hour drive south of here, but they moved up in like the late 40s and 50s when they were young. So technically first generation, but not really. Then I went, let's see, I moved to Seattle for school and then Phoenix for four years, and then I've been back up here for nine. So what brought your parents up to Alaska? They didn't have much choice. They were a year and a half and three years old. Both their fathers actually came up for work and then did the whole send for the family a year later once they were better established kind of deal. Okay. So that had to be a very challenging time. Alaska was still very much in the growth process some years ago. Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's interesting though, you know, my mom always talks about how she's really glad that her parents brought her and her brother up when they did, which was in 1951 for my mom and then 1947 for my dad. Just because it's such a different, their lives were very different compared to family members and cousins who lived outside, outside being the lower 48 or outside Alaska. Yeah, but I think also in some ways I'm jealous of the experiences they got to have. It's changed so much even since I was a kid, like Anchorage is practically doubled in size since I was a kid. There's a lot more here now and that's been in, you know, 20, 30 years versus back in the 60s when my parents were at school in Fairbanks and hitchhiking in the winter from Fairbanks to Anchorage, which, you know, is roughly 400 miles. So tell me a little bit about your growth in the leather community, your growth in the, as you went toward boot blacking and other things in the community. So it's funny in that I officially started in the community at large, if you will, in 2012, fall 2012, looking back a lot more from, made sense from when I was, you know, toddler and on a lot of things made more sense. But when I first started the community more on the just kink and fetish side and trying things out and I never, I thought, oh, well, there's this, there's this what I'm doing and then there's leather over here where there are, you know, we didn't know of that many people that were real leather folks here and just that preconceived notion, whatever that was. So it's interesting to realize for me over time, for a lot of things like I wouldn't have thought myself nine years ago, if someone said, oh, you're a leather woman, I would have been like, I don't think so am I? I don't know. But it's kind of like a, it's funny about a lot of identities that I have is that it's built in top like over time where the suddenly the realization is, oh, yeah, yeah, that does describe me. Okay, great. It's been, it's been interesting. It's been interesting to go from kind of not even a spectrum, but like one area thinking that was my thing and then realizing there was this core of leather underneath. If that makes sense at all, I don't know. Let's take a bit of a step back because you alluded to the leather scene explaining a few things from when you were a toddler. Tell us about that. Certain fantasies from a very young age made a lot more sense. They usually involve some form of bondage, I realize now. At the time, it was just being strange and pressure points or whatever, like, oh, please, no, press on that. And my mom would be like, oh, but I bet you it feels so good when I stop. I'm like, no, it feels good when you're digging in more and the look on her face. She really, I think she was a little shocked, a little disturbed. She probably realizes now makes a lot more sense. Just the things that I found, I think, intriguing or alluring, like one of my first crushes, lady crushes, whatever you want to call it, was the character Lady Heather on CSI, who is a dominatrix in like season two. And I was just captivated, absolutely captivated. It just hit a chord, if you will. And apparently it was more obvious to others than it was to me. So I think, what was I, 16, 15, 16. And in some German high school, in a high school German class, and it was one of those projects of, okay, get together in pairs and talk about figure out what your partner is going to be when they grow up, and then find a German word and draw a picture. My partner drew, to my surprise me, as a dominatrix, a stick figure dominatrix with fangs and a whip and high heels and a corset with little bandaged bleeding and crying figures in the back offering me bags of money. I was like 15, 16. So it really made me, people had better ideas about things than I did myself. Tell us more about that evolution when you were young. What were you doing? Experimenting? Were you reading about this? Tell us how that evolved. So I'd say, probably when I was very young, it was more about sensation. Like the feeling of taking, like a lanyard for keys or a piece of twine and just wrapping it really tight, pulling tight for the feeling of constriction, being able to pull around, certain pain things, pressure points, or it's probably part of the reason why my pinkies are a little crooked, is I used to do this really, really, really hard. I probably broke them at some point, but it felt good. It just, it, yeah, it just felt good. It just felt good. So, yeah, some of the early sexual fantasies that generally involved things that weren't, I don't know, oh, he's going to take me on a date and blah, blah, blah, whatever, you know. And similarly, when I was in high school, I was the, I thought I was one of the straight members of my apologies now to everyone I told that to. I didn't know. No, I know. Same thing in college, but one of the members, we started a GSA in my high school. And it was a GSA, a gay straight alliance, a student alliance. It's a student group, yeah. And like our very first summer, after we've been around for, I think, a year, the Westboro Baptist Church came up to pick it, the city, and all the churches and the parade and all that. So we marched and all that, but that same year we went to, there was a small workshop or weekend conference at the local university. And one of the other students and I were able to go for a short period. And one of the things that made me go, oh, okay, is we've been in a workshop about, I think, the history of works, like the history of homosexual and gay and all those things. And leaving, because we had to head home or back to school or wherever it was, past, we were walking out in past, one of the women who had been in the class, she had gone after a cop, obviously, for something and had come back in. And it was just a double, what's that term? A double look? Second look, I had to look again. I'm forgetting the word. Delighted? Yeah. Double take. There we go. Because she was just, when I could barely, I can, just that feeling of warmth and connection and I mean, hell, it's been over 20 years and I'm still just like, don't know that I've ever seen her again, but just that recognition of, it was just really delicious. So things like that, that at the time, let me do my own thing, looking back, I'm like, oh yeah, nope, I have a type. Okay. When did you begin really experimenting with other women? Way late, honestly. Well, sometimes in my 20s, probably. And then even then, not, not much. It was, I think some of my own, oh, what would you call it? Oh, internalized bullshit. Do you identify as a lesbian or as queer? How do you identify? Very good question. It's something that's definitely been continuing to evolve from me. You know, I used to think of myself as being, no, I'm straight, I'm friendly, but I'm absolutely straight. I'm only like guys. I blah, blah, blah. And then as time went on, coming across the idea, I'm like, oh, I feel, I feel queer. I feel this way, but you know what? It's only for gay men and 100% pussy only lesbians. That's not me. I'm not queer enough. I'm not enough to count as queer. I'm not enough as to be this or this. And that's, that's been an interesting development. You know, I really love, there was a quote from Jack Thompson, whom I adore, when he won IML. And I literally, I actually have it, someone I made an art piece and I have it hanging above my desk at work, that says, if you're enough for you, then you're enough, period. And I think about that a lot. I think about that a lot. Because I didn't know necessarily where I fit in. And I, I've always struggled with, what am I? Where do I fit? Because I didn't necessarily feel like I fit clearly one place or another. So I, I do identify as queer. My pronouns are she, she, she, her. I really, I like people more than I like a set gender. And I find a lot of people alluring and a lot of energy delicious, if that makes sense, whether it's play, romantic, sexual. And I, so I really go more with queer rather than something like hand sexual or when someone say omni sexual. Because when I've thought about it and tried to really break it down, for me, sexuality and sexual energy isn't just about who I want to fuck. It's more about, it's more imbued through my life. So things will like my belief that the personal is political. And so is pleasure. Pleasure is absolutely political. You know, my sexual includes the leather includes kinks and BDSM and ethical non monogamy. And also just that sense of energy and trying to be present in my body and feel all the things. So yes, the queer identity and my sexuality in that sense is really driven by people who I find attractive, what makes me wet, what I want in my life, who, who and what drives me and also the type of world I want to exist or I want to live in. So those all kind of like, link up for me. Identify as queer, identify as a leather woman, identify as Jewish. I'm neurodivergent. So in some things that puts me under a disability umbrella, I guess, and the black, but and then I'm also a switch. But in my current relationship and a lot of relationships, I tend to be more on the S side of the slash. But there are times that goes on the other side. So I just feel like a big mix, if that makes sense. Tell us about early experimentation. How were you finding out about this whole genre of lifestyles? So it's something. I'm watching your facial expressions. They're great. From the early, early feelings of sensation, you know, certain pains felt good, pressure and restriction felt good. The type of character that I found enthralling like Lady Heather, my first relatively like, well, I can't even say totally first. How old was I when I, okay, see, there's something else that makes sense. I got an adult fantasy novel somehow. I don't know how I got it at the bookstore, but I did when I was 11, because I remember showing it to my fifth grade teacher and having, you know, me reading through this section where it talks about like a raping bench and things like that. And she just like, okay, why don't you put that book away? And I think I was probably the summer after high school, I did, I read the what is that? The Sleeping Beauty trilogy from Anne Rice, I think. But my first more in-person exposure and experimentate, not even experimentation, just exposure was when I was at university my first year in Seattle during, they had some like sexuality awareness week or something. And they had Mr. Matisse come and do a lecture or talk, something like that. And, oh yeah, I was so excited. I don't know, I didn't know at the time, like, why I was so flippant excited to have heard about her coming. I just was like, I gotta go. I took one of my door mates and she's like, oh, okay. And went and sat in the, yeah. I'm sorry, would you please tell us about Mr. Matisse? So she's a Seattle area dominatrix. I believe she was a prodom. And then also she wrote for, what was it, The Stranger, which was an alternative newspaper in Seattle. She actually had a pretty regular column called Control Tower. So she and I want to say she brought one of her S types with her to do a talk during sexuality week about alternative lifestyles, I think would probably be the official term. And yeah, I just, I had to go. I absolutely, I just knew I had to go. And I took my neighbor there at the dorm and, you know, eagerly awaiting. And I just, I felt like I hung on every word. I found it just absolutely fascinating. And it was just, I loved it. I loved it. There was something about it that just felt like it made perfect sense. And that it was perfectly right. It's actually really funny, because I knew just like vaguely new to the other students that were there, like sitting directly behind my friend and I from the Hillel, the student Jewish group that I went to. And that's a good way of really breaking the ice, you know, if you're at a small gathering, listening to a dominatrix talk together, really does a good job at breaking the ice. And it's really funny because one of the two, they both became really, really good friends and still are friends. But after their initial embarrassment, I didn't pay attention, one of them actually eight years later became the first person I ever played with when I was visiting them in New York City. So, and then they were really like my introduction to the larger scene, you know, my first actual play happened with this person. And they took me to the Purple Passion in New York City, which I love and I go to every time I'm in the city. And that's actually where I think it's Lola. When we were there, she told me about the, because I was getting ready to move back up to Alaska and she told me about that there was an Alaska community. So I learned about the Alaskan Fetish and Kent community and Fet Life and Northern Exposure, which is our yearly conference. I learned about that from someone in a BDSM shop in New York City. How fascinating. Yeah, it's a small world and I love it that way. Well, tell us more about the Alaska community. What do you have? Okay, what do we have? Can you, can you be more? Well, for example, are you talking about like what the scene it's, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, I'm just, what, what kind of clubs do you have? What organizations are there? What activities go on? If someone like, we're coming to Alaska, what could I anticipate? Very good question. Very good question. We have a fairly relatively small, I think community compared to a lot of places outside because our demographic pool, our population is relatively smaller. And we can be really isolated from other communities because of the geography, the distance. A lot of times when people travel to an outside event for the first time, it's absolutely mind blowing because there are so many people and the, the vibe is just different. I think a lot of people get spoiled living outside of Alaska for the risk, heard it a number of times when presenters and educators have come up here and Alaskans turn out and they play hard because we don't have always the same level of opportunity. We can't just drive to another state over. We could, it would take a week, but we could. So, I mean, it's possible. Here in Anchorage, we have, we have the more widely known gay bar, Mad Myrna's does a weekly drag show, all that good stuff. You know, a block and a half away, we have the Raven, which is our leather bar smaller, but it's definitely building up a little more. That's where we host a lot of events for our leather community. Up until a few years ago, I think about two years ago, we had a, gosh, it's coming up on three years ago. We actually had for five years, the Alaska Center for Alternative Lifestyles, which was done by the Fox fighter productions. We had a public play space public as a dungeon sold as sold around, you know, as a sex club variety show. And then there were parties, there would be workshops or classes, social events during the week, play parties on Fridays and Saturdays, usually a boot black on duty on the weekends. That was really great. The club was around for about five years, I think. I'm hopeful and excited for things to be making a comeback, but you know, fuck COVID. COVID sucks. I hate COVID. So many levels. It's really interesting in Alaska. We're kind of a mix in that on the one hand, we can be pretty internationally minded and also open minded. Historically, a lot of people in Alaska have been like, well, I don't really care what you do. Just don't mess with what I do. And we'll get along fine. That's changed over time. I think there are a lot more churches and people are more conservative and just with more people. Population wise, some of that feeling and that sense has changed. So people seem to care a little bit more now about other people's business. So we have a mix of, hey, you know what, do what makes you happy if you're not hurting someone else? Then you have other places like in Fairbanks, to my understanding, it's against the law because someone cannot, you know, being particularly impact or BDSM activities because there you cannot consent to your own abuse, quote, unquote. So it's an interesting difference, you know, versus Anchorage. All right, open dungeon. We had a trifle on the street. Cool, great. Fairbanks, even at a house party, we noticed, we'd got up there and years ago noticed that people wouldn't stand and watch a scene happening necessarily the way they would at other events, you know, in Anchorage or outside. And we asked at one point, we said, okay, well, obviously someone's interested because they're looking with and they quickly, not like with a hand, but they're not looking as much and certainly outstanding. And we made that comment to a friend at the time who lived up there. And they said, oh, it's because here you can't consent. It's technically illegal here in Fairbanks. They're not used to being able to see or to watch because it's not legal. And that that's a little, we have a huge mix. We have a huge mix of things, you know, even at, and I think it's the case everywhere. In the case of like pride parade and pride and does leather or kink or blah, blah, blah, or long at pride. I think that's pretty much every year and every June it comes back up. It was probably two, three years ago, pride. Yeah, 2019. I think two or three years ago. And Alaska Center for Alternative Lifestyles, we always marched in the parade towards the back, happy to bring up the rear. And that's comfortable for us. And there was some group in the pride parade. It was one or two away from us. I don't even remember something relatively vanilla, but we're dressed. No one was showing nipples, although technically in Anchorage, nudity from the top up is totally legal on the street. It doesn't matter what parts you got. You don't have to wear pasties outside in a bar or a cab array setting. It's different. Wow. You could march naked from the top up down Fifth Avenue. No problem. But you see how that mixed and then there was this group that when we're all prepping and gathering for the parade in the morning, blah, blah, blah, they looked at us and said, uh-uh. And they left. They refused to march next to us. They didn't want to be next to those people and they left. Wow. So overall, I feel like we've got a pretty good community. Like most communities, there's factions and changing and oh, there's this new thing and oh, this person, lots of this happening. It was interesting with the pandemic kind of setting in some of the newer groups that it started. For a while, we usually had about three different groups and a lot of people would float between different social groups, if you will. But there's constantly changes. This group, the leaders moved out of state. So that kind of went by the wayside. But then these people came back to Alaska because there's a lot of transience in that sense. So like all things, it ebbs and flows. It ebbs and flows. But we do really like to get together when there's not a pandemic. And it's just, it's exciting and it feels different at events here than most events I've been to outside. So I feel like most events here are a little more, this doesn't sound strange, but homegrown, home grassroots in some sense, which I know throws some people off. They're used to, hey, this is the yearly conference. There are 180 people coming. Shout out to them on the exposure. But it's, they're used to, okay, it's at this specific venue with these specific badges, this is the schedule. And there's some of that. Absolutely. There's a lot of that. And a lot of work goes into it. But it's, it feels more like the whole community, for the most part, comes together to help with it, rather than just attending, if that makes sense. Yeah, it just, it feels more, just different, more down to earth sometimes, which some people are all for and other people not really a big fan of, and that's okay, because we all got our things. When do you hold Northern exposure? It's usually every July. Obviously this year and last year, kind of mess that up. But it's typically in the summer, the weather is gorgeous. Doesn't interfere with fishing too much. We love to fish here. But it's lovely also. I'm sadistic enough. I like to fuck with people and the fact that whenever people who haven't been to Alaska or haven't been to Alaska for in the summer come up, and they start to do the, oh my God, when does it get dark? And I get to tell them this fall. I love that. I love fucking with people like that. It's great. Now, what sorts of things do you do during Northern exposure? A lot of different educational classes and workshops on a variety of topics, soft skills, hard skills, panels, round tables. So we've got a lot of those. There's usually the Alaska State Blue Platt Contest. Typically happens that weekend. And then there are a couple of play parties. It's usually officially a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. But then we have presenters that have come up that come up a little bit before and stay afterwards. So there's things like going sightseeing or going fishing. Just the fun stuff and being able to really spend more one-on-one time with people that you've either never met or you haven't seen in a while. Really hot play. Really, really hot play. But it's an incredible chance to get to really get one-on-one time. Not that they have to, obviously, if they don't want to, but historically, community-wise, community members were driving, picking up presenters and saying, okay, you need coffee. Let me go grab you this coffee and take you to the class and all this happening. And I feel like you don't get that some other places. So it makes some really, really good connections that way. Let's take a step back, though. I'd like to know more about your learning process for boot blacking. How did that evolve for you? My sir's boots were horrible. That's literally how it started. My sir and I have been together oh, it was four years in August. And one of the things we talked about entering into our relationship was expectations. What I really enjoy service and what does the service look like to me? Okay. Well, and what does my sir want for service? And leather care was one of those things. He wears leather boots, at least at that point, was wearing leather boots that were pretty much his only footwear. Whether it was working in a restaurant kitchen, hiking on a glacier, take your pick. They were falling apart, shredding holes. You couldn't tell what color the leather was originally. And so I was like, okay, Panda, I need help. What do I do with this mess? And Panda was great. I was starting to show me. So I started doing that. Okay. I actually kind of like that. I like how things feel. I like having something to focus on and use my hands on. Then it also turns out pretty nice. Okay. So yeah, it just started there. Had it done a whole lot. And then I was, he debates whether this is entirely true, most of the time, he just admits it. So like a few weeks before the 2018 contest for state bootblock, there was some conversation about, oh, one of our friends, Preston, was getting ready to run. He's like, oh, you should do it. And I'm like, no. And sir, look at me said, do I really need to volunteer you? He essentially volunteered me to run for the contest. But what were you? So I blame this all on him. What were you able to do with his boots? You said they were in terrible shape. I cleaned them a lot. Multiple, multiple, multiple times I cleaned them. I fixed laces. Actually, I might have replaced his laces because there wasn't much hope. I picked out years worth of pebbles and gravel ground into the sole. I reglue bits of the sole of the soleing that had come off. At that point, I didn't know how to patch holes. So I literally, after your leaning ridiculous amounts of grime from them, I conditioned them within an inch of their lives, gave them a nice little buff, and they looked beautiful. And they looked like actual boots. And you could tell they were leather. And then he wore them for another week, and they devolved. And I was very sad for a little while. But take us a little further back. I mean, you mentioned that it all began with his boots, but you had to have had some inkling that brought you that. We had talked about caring for his leathers. He had boots, he had a vest, like a bar vest, and a leather jacket that he wore and still wears. Huge majority of the time. And it's something that I liked the touch of and I liked the feel of. And it was something that he talked about, oh, you know, it'd be nice to have this taken care of. Okay, well, I want to make you happy. This would be something that do. And then it just kind of became a monster on its own. Yeah. Before that, though, I honestly, I didn't, like I knew it existed vaguely in the back part of my mind. But it wasn't really on my front burner, if that makes sense. Now, you mentioned Panda, another boot black in Alaska. Were you otherwise recorded in that area? So Panda, absolutely. Bow Black from Washington State, Mickey Rebel, Door, Mickey. And there have been so many other people that have been really happy to learn from. Although I feel like I never, never enough. You know, I never were quite, I want more. I want more and then life intercedes. So those would be some of my first people that really working with. Now, do you have specific products that you like to use? Most boot blacks, I find, do have that. It really depends on what I'm using it for or what type of leather I'm working on. We have up here, we do a lot, a lot, a lot of oil tans rather than high shines. So I really love really thick, heavy conditioners. I really like open offs. I've made some of my own like soap and I know Panda makes a really nice conditioner as well. A lot of times I just, I've used Hubert's, I have to be in the right mood for Hubert's or Hubbard's, if that makes sense. Open offs is more my go-to because of the, I think the smell and I like the way it feels, whether the oil or the more the ointment style. Now, what do you mean to be in the right mood for Hubert's? You know, this is going to sound strange. I think I generally would use Hubert's, I'd be more up to use Hubert's in a scene if it's something I know that the person liked and it was more, not really for show, but more experiential than more just for leather care. If I like a night in the club, a lot of times I would still use open offs. I'm not a, I'm, I know, I'm going to bless being here. I'm not personally a huge fan of the smell or taste of Hubert's. I know, waiting for lightning to strike. But you know, I really, I just, I love the feel and the smell of open offs and the beeswax and I just really like those. But if it's something where, oh, some of my favorite things to do, honestly, are even at events like there's a fet ball, a fetish ball fundraiser most years, to benefit one of our local non-pros. That's a HIV and AIDS charity, essentially. And so that's a big thing where, you know, the, the vanilla people get to come and look because the people are the show, meaning us. And that's definitely a, right? Yeah, we're the show. But it raises some really good money for a really, really good cause. And it's, I'm not going to lie, it's fun. I get to spank people and they ask for it. But similarly, as part of that, doing like the blacking demo or scene, keywords with the tint, I wear white. You can really see it a lot better when it's smeared all over. Same with polishes, diamonds, things like that. When it comes to polishes, I tend to like Lincoln the best. So fear is beautiful. But I save it because it's a small tint and it's expensive. Tell us a little bit about boot blacking in the community in Alaska. Are you able to go into the Raven and do this? Or is this more something you would do in a private party setting? It can be done in a private party. Generally, you can do it at the Raven. And at events, we absolutely do it at the Raven. It's still something like trying to get people to recognize more, if that makes sense. Panda does a really good job on the blessing of the bikes in the spring. You know, for when motorcycles hit the road, there's a huge blessing on the bikes. And there's usually a boot blacker too there. I've done boot blacking on some Saturdays at, it's been a few years now, at Tandy Leather here in Anchorage. And definitely at the Raven, we have a boot black stand there. It's currently in storage. We're going to get COVID, but that was made to sit there at the Raven for during events. You know, most private house parties, not so much certain play parties, more official ones, like from the show box, from Sarah, or at a cow, those kind of parties, those generally will have more of a black kind of on duty, if you will. Tell us about preparing for the Alaska, I want to get this right, Alaska State Boot Black, because you said that your sir was threatening to volunteer you. Yeah. That time is really a blur. A lot of these things become a blur. Just trying to figure out, like what is this and what is this and how do I make this go there? Yeah, it was a lot of more practicing and trying to just figure out what the hell I was doing. And especially as I got closer being able and kind of talking myself up, if that makes sense, I tend to be more of an introvert, having to talk myself in and up to the lean in, letting my flirtatiousness come out, which a lot of the time I tend to otherwise like bring back and like reign it in, reign it in. Oh yeah, some of my favorite photos from that weekend. I've got a corset, tits are up to here. Oh yeah, just, oh, I'll just do anything. I mean, not quite anything. And just being able to embrace that, I think. So there are different components of that, of getting more comfortable with talking to people, the physical skills, and then just lean and just go for it. I think that was a lot of the prep, which is good because there really wasn't much time. It was just a few weeks beforehand. How many contestants were there your year? For Alaska State, I was one of three. Okay. Okay. Now, what do you feel set you apart to win that? I think just different energy. You know, I also tend to sometimes hyper focus. So just, I'm getting this done. I'm getting this done. I can't go and look at anything else. I've got to stick and do this and not letting myself get distracted sometimes because otherwise, I am very distractible. Very distractible. Shiny objects, a lot. So I think that was probably part of it. Also, it coincided to my benefit with women of drummer having a regional meeting at Northern Exposure. So in that case, the girls and the feminine energy definitely worked on my favor. What did you have to do as part of your contest in order to win the title? So for the Alaska State competition, it was a few different categories. One, selling raffle tickets at the beginning, of course, and then to raise money, stand time and spending it, getting your stand time in, having people come and sit for you, and then people could give tickets to whoever, you know, whatever person they thought did the best. There was a a tech boot to do. And then also a speech. The speech, I don't believe, counted towards points for anything, but it was a good practice because you're to give it in front of everybody. And unlike many other bootleg competitions, there was a fantasy portion on stage. Yeah. So that made it extra fun, nerve-wracking, but also fun with music and, yep, right there. What did you do for your fantasy? Oh, I want to say I did something along the lines of, like, there was a music mix, and it was pretty much, I like to think, most switches fantasy, but maybe it's just me, of being able to come home and being the more the dominant partner and being taken care of and loved and eaten out by a beautiful red-haired woman and an apron, lovely versus and then having my sir come in and yank me around and beat me and she's kissing me here and he's yanking my hair and I got to have my way with both of them. So that worked for me. After winning that, what were you able to do with your title? So I was able to do some really nice state things, doing some small classes and things in the state within the state of Alaska, and Saral was awesome and sent me to events outside as well. So I got to go to things like women of drummer, just being able to go to events. Why am I driving a blank? Being able to go to events outside, events in the state. Yeah, that was pretty sweet and just trying to increase some of that recognition or exposure and also, I mean, the chance to, not that I couldn't have done it before, but the chance to really get a lot of practice enough, hey, all right, Friday and Saturday, you're going to be at the club and really being able to be at home in the club and, hey, this is my area and developing a lot of that ongoing relationship and that connection with other people in my community. Because I'm there, maybe you want me to do your boots, maybe you want me to do your chaps, maybe we're just going to hang out and chat and catch up. It all works out for me. Tell us about going to the international contest. Terrifying. I mean, really, okay, very intimidating. I was incredibly lucky with the team I had. Saral, my partner, and Allie, the latter two are my handlers. Just to have some idea of what I was getting myself into, the amount of prep work for interviews, for tech boot, for what you need to wear, how you need to present yourself because you're going to be on display. All the bits and pieces, that weekend is a blur. I have vague little memories from here and here, but an absolute blur of faces and people and events and the rushing from here to here to here. Yeah, it's really wild, really, really wild. For someone who might want to attend the contest, tell us, where is it held? So at that point, it was held in San Jose, California, and had been for a number of years. Mademoiselle Sisi has taken over and now is producing the contest. She has talked about wanting to pick up again what had been done, I think it was Amy Marie Meeks had done years ago and actually start migrating it a little bit, the contest, so it's a little more accessible. Yes, I know Amy Marie Meek took Imzel at the time and was moving it to different locations and then it would have fettled in San Jose. So are you saying that the boot black contest has now been sort of branched off from that? No, no, it went from the Imzel weekend to the Imzel baby weekend. So those contests happened together. The Imzel and the International Miss Boot Black happened as part of the same contest weekend. But I know, no, no, that hasn't changed, but there's been discussion about potentially starting to rotate the location again. Oh, as a whole unit, okay. Oh, okay, okay. Now, what you're doing is pretty exciting. What do you feel set you apart for the international contest? It's a very good question. I think energy and probably positivity. Brooklyn's amazing. So there was just one other contestant for boot black. Oh, I see. But just we have different, I'm sorry? I see. Yeah, but we also, we just have different presentations of the energy we put out. And I think that I think that's the big thing. Brooklyn's a really talented boot black and knows more and many things than I do. We just have different focuses on skill set, I guess. That makes sense. Now, what were you thinking? What were your feelings when you won? Oh, what have I done? Pretty much that I think that's really quite actually possibly word for word. Yeah. So what did you do? What have I done? It's one of those things. I feel like I got a lot more out of the year than so many other people. I was able to travel and to meet people and make incredible connections and share space with people that I'm absolutely in awe of. Some of whom I knew before the event, others that I have met since and in awe, isn't really even quite a strong enough term. I feel like to be able to represent because Alaska, you know, yay, Alaska's amazing. But to me people, oh, oh wait, they're queers. There are leather people in Alaska. Are you sure? Yes. Yes, we are everywhere. I am quite sure. But being able to, the other is a little bit of a face, but it's always struck me as strange. I never think of myself as being a very memorable person. And it was weird for me during my title year for International Instance when anyone has said, oh, you know, I know you. You're the frozen femme. Or, oh, I just really love that you're doing this. Like, really? Me? Really? But it's been nice to be able to have that and to like for so many things to see and be seen. And my speech at the International Contest came from a place of determining my own queer and Jewish identity and how those things really played into how our community can be richer. You know, food is improved by flavors and bringing it all there. And some of my fears, you know, about the state of our country and our world and where things were going and starting to not feel safe again. And it was interesting to me because there were several people who came up after the contest, after the speech that night. Some I hadn't talked to before and they they sought me out and said, me too. I feel this too. I'm afraid of this too. And that that was really touching, you know, is also one of the reasons I feel like I got more than I could have possibly given back. Who were some of the most impressive people you met during that time? Oh, mom of I and Judy towing are absolutely. I can't even, I can't even. All my sisters are incredible from the IMSL, IMSL and IMSLBB community. Absolutely incredible. I have I am so in love with just I just love people. That's going to sound weird. I being able to find a common spark, whether I was in Australia or Montreal or New York City. And I was just people from all over the place. And Alisa, who is, you know, from two years before me, international as we black from two years before me, her girl complex, my God, they're incredible. Absolutely amazing. You know, closer to Tegan and Ange, of course, just by spacing, but I'm just trying to say there's so many, there's so many people that thinking that I might not have met them and gotten them in my life. That that's the that is the real win for me. That's cheesy as that sounds. What were some of the places you were able to visit? Never enough. I made it to Chicago several times. Montreal and Sacramento, Sydney and Melbourne, Australia, New York City. Where else may I'm blanking on? Des Moines, Iowa. I know I'm forgetting others. My my my title year ended in the onset of COVID. So yeah, that kind of messed with I ended up canceling like my last three trips or well one of those was still title year and then other trips were like carry over. Yeah, because we arrived back state side from Australia on March 8th. So I always kind of went to a handbasket. Talk with us a little bit about mentoring in the boot black and community. What does that mean to you? For me or at least to my mind, mentoring in the boot black community has several different areas, or at least a couple facets. One, you know, it's that it's the hand skills. It's the which products, it's the the the book learning, if you will. And then, okay, physically feels like this. It tastes like this. This is the practical aspects. There's also mentoring about asserting oneself. What's your place with regards to the stand? How do you run your stand? How do you run your space and your time and your energy? That's a whole other area, you know, and I also think another area that because that's something else that also is directly or can be directly, hey, this person's doing this, this is a way you can address that. And then there's the mentoring by example or the leading by example of, hey, this is how I put myself out in the community. This is how I'm supporting people. This is what service I'm providing. Not in a, you must do this exact same thing as me, but showing an example of what a boot black can be and can do for the community at large. So I think for me, mentoring involves those multiple areas. We haven't touched upon how unique is the general fetish scene in Alaska. I'd like you to tell us a little bit about that. How unique is it? We have a weird thing for being in bikinis outside when it's 55 below. Just going to throw that out there. It's a thing. It is a thing. You know, I feel like if you're looking at fetish community itself, I feel like there's not because we have a smaller population that there isn't necessarily as many opportunities for people that would be more as identified as fetishists versus kinksters versus leather. We have very much like a lot of places, an overarching umbrella, but there just aren't as many and specifically for different fetishes, which we don't have the population, at least not that they're willing to admit it. That's probably accurate. Yeah. What will be your legacy in the community? Oh, man. What I hope my legacy will be is I don't know that I ever really get to decide that. My hope will be that my legacy will be someone warm and who brings smiles, relatively little drama and tears, and someone just welcoming who's able to pass on information and provide a safe space for people. I would love it if my legacy were being someone kind who continually worked to take care of others, serve the community and keep moving it forward in a positive direction, and just becoming a better boot black, stronger person, and someone who helped lift other people up. I really want to finish my thing about fucking on every single continent. I haven't made it there yet. My final question. What's the biggest misconception about you? That I have it together. I have my stuff together. I really don't. Well, Gretchen Renee, I would like to thank you for being part of Inside Leather History, a fireside chat, and for being our first representative from Alaska. Thank you for having me, Doug. I feel incredibly honored. Thank you.