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Hi, let's answer your questions about dreams and disorders of dreaming Have you ever experienced a sensation of being? awake, but unable to move or speak or what about the more immersive experience of being aware that you're dreaming and Perhaps even having some control over those dreams Today, we'll be discussing these questions and more by touching upon topics such as the interpretations and functions of dreams about sleep paralysis and about lucid dreaming So welcome to our ask an expert live stream My name is Monica your host and I am honored to be joined by Dr. Jalal today who is our expert on dreams sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming You have submitted your questions to our YouTube community page and our discord server and We've picked the top questions to answer today So I invite you to deeply engage with our live stream by leaving your questions your thoughts or your comments in the chat box to the right as we'll have an Opportunity to answer these questions live at the end of the stream. So hope you stay tuned for that In addition you can leave your thoughts comments or questions in the comment section below and I'll do my best and the team will as well to answer them after this stream So we hope you stay till the end to learn some interesting facts about sleep paralysis lucid dreaming and about dreams in general The plan is during this time I will be giving you a brief introduction to myself a side to go team member To our expert Dr. Jalal and then we'll dive straight into the questions that you sent in So let's begin That's an introduction to myself I'm Monica and I'm a clinical neuroscience graduate student who is very interested in Psychiatry and outreach initiatives One of these outreach initiatives includes psych to go where I'm very grateful to be able to interact with you and see your questions chat with you all and of course host these live stream with experts to make psychiatry accessible to all as I know that many of you are joining us from all different parts of the world and at different times Do you want to remind you that this stream will be available for you to watch later? But we do encourage you to engage with us today And now I will introduce you to our expert Hello, Dr. Jalal. Thank you for joining us today. My pleasure Monica. How are you? I'm very well super excited for our discussions and to share our knowledge with everyone here Yeah, same here same here Thought I might be a good opportunity to begin with a Introduction so the community gets to know you a bit better. How does that sound? Sounds great So we are very very fortunate to have Dr. Balan Jalal who is a researcher at Harvard University and a visiting researcher at the Cambridge He also completed his PhD there and he has published 45 academic papers and is a co-author in a recent book by Cambridge University Press The telegraph described him as one of the world's leading expert on sleep paralysis He was also ranked as the top rated expert in sleep paralysis in the world on expert scope base expert scape sorry based on the scientific impact His work has been featured in major media like New York Times Washington Post the Today Show BBC the Guardian and the Times Furthermore, he has written about his research for the Scientific American the Boston Globe and the Big Think He is truly an expert in this field and we are so excited to have him join us today to share his expertise on this topic So thank you so much for joining. Oh, thank you so much and your Monica and thank you so much for the generous introduction Of course, so I thought let's begin with maybe just general questions that the community has submitted Regarding dreams in general Yeah Yeah, so one of the top questions were actually sent by Justin via YouTube His general ideas that many people or many psychologists and neuroscientists tend to think that dreams either have meaning or They don't it's kind of usually split right so which leads to his question of What do you think the functions of dreams are or do you want to give an overview? Overview about some of the different theories and discuss those maybe. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well dreams is a heavy topic Right, so we're diving right in So what's going on going on during dreams, right? You find yourself transported into this bizarre and strange world where you're basically you're you know, you are Encountering these novel environments. They're usually very strange and oddly you don't know You don't feel like it's not even though it's a novel environments You don't feel like it's necessarily novel and you don't feel like it's bizarre and strange Even though the fabric of reality is all warped right so time places people everything sort of shifted So what's going on and and can can your brain sort of explain this bizarre world? Can can can the brain and neuroscience explain the fact that people all around the world when I go lecture in Whatever country people will tell me I was chased by this monster and I couldn't get away my my legs were they felt so heavy You know, did you have that dream once in a while Monica? Are you trying to move your legs are so heavy? You can't really get away and the monster is chasing you or whatever it is things are very strange and also dreams tend to be Heavily populated by people so there's something about the way that we construct a theory of other minds That's sort of heavily involved during dreams. So so what's going on? So let's look at the brain, right? So what's happening during dreams but in order for us to understand dreams We have to understand that these vivid lifelike crisp dreams that we all have and remember for the most of the time Emerge out of something called REM sleep. So Each night we go through different phases of sleep So we have stages one and two where a heart rate and blood pressure drops, right? And then we go into sort of what's called deep sleep where we have a lot of shop keeping going on so things like repair of like, you know muscles and DNA repair and things like that So it's really like really like a shop keeping time, right? And then from there we into into what's called REM the REM phase and here we have the lifelike and crisp dreams where we are paralyzed Okay, and we are paralyzed during these dreams in order to avoid You know to avoid hurting ourselves during these dreams, okay? So during this REM phase the neurochemistry the neurochemical environment is different than life Waking life basically, okay? So you have chemicals like serotonin. So this chemical involved in mood the neurons that produce serotonin are Stop act are not inactive during a REM sleep. Okay, so they replenish They need to sort of be recharged like you recharge your iPhone for example your smartphone, right? So they are recharged and and so that means, you know the cortex that the top layer of the brain Which is important for a lot of different things like logic and Agency and awareness of the soul and things like that Since that chemical is not available during REM sleep and during dreams and that means our logic centers in the brain Don't work as they should they're not optimally functioning and that explains why dreams are strange and bizarre to get to the You know the question right why dreams do they have a meaning? Well, they are strange and bizarre because a part of the brain known known as the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex a fancy name for a structure important instance of logic logic and Putting the world together in a coherent way. Well that part of the brain is not working So dreams are strange so that's an explanation for that Or why do you have these dreams while you can't move for example and the monster is chasing you? Well, it turns out because you need that cortex to be working right during dreams and the serotonin that chemical is not there to Give gasoline to the CEO or that part of the brain that's important for those functions Well, the emotional part of the brain gets the upper hand in a way because the cortex is Important for inhibiting your emotions and so the emotions Represents that monster chasing you and since you can't really dampen those emotions. Well, that means you're heavy You know and the motor cortex is also in the in that region And so that explains why you are weak in sort of movement Does that make sense or was that a sort of a long-winded answer to explain to basically say that you know The the brain and the neurochemistry the neurochemical environment of the brain Explained very explains well why dreams have that you know Reality to them that we experience each night basically That's such a fascinating response. I never really thought of it really being centered around the dorsolato prefrontal cortex and having that kind of being Dampened down a bit as a reason why we have such bizarre dreams. So that was really really cool to hear Which is actually very interesting Because I wonder do you know if there's any differences between people who have healthy brains and those who might have lesions to That area In their dreams, that's a great question. Would there be differences? Well, we've hypothesized. So that we think that Yes, probably there would be some some some changes, but I'm not even aware of what the literature would say So obviously if you are blind your visual cortex is out of is not you don't have a visual cortex or you're sort of Congenitally blind right then you won't have visual dreams Right that that so you will have auditory dreams You will have tactile sensations, but you won't actually see things But yeah, I would I would venture that if there's something wrong in those structures of the brain, you know Things would be different. Let me give you an example. So One thing about dream is the sense of self right the sense of by the sense of Beland or Monica, right? I feel like I feel anchored in this body, right? I don't feel like I'm floating out in space and their their structures in the brain call this Superior parietal lobby or the TPJ basically structures in the parietal lobes that creates a sense of self Okay, and it turns out when you are in REM sleep the TPJ for example That's a region deactivates It doesn't work as it should and that that explains why your sense of self is loosened up during dreams That explains why you can take the vantage point of Monica during your dreams, right? Like a first person's perspective. I see myself or you can feel like you're actually seeing yourself from outside perspective So it's almost like your dreams or I've had a dream where I've worked I was catapulted into somebody else's, you know body and I was seeing the world through their point of view and this and the Explanation is then that the sense of self is not or that that structure the brain is not working as it should now I would my guess would be that if you have visions for that parts of the brain There is that you know that those those partial portions of the brain aren't working as they should well then likely you might have Dreams where the sense of self is distorted, you know And because they actually that their sense of self is distorted during waking life So people with strokes in that part of the brain will attribute their limbs for example to other people and things like that So yeah, I guess so but definitely it's a great question tricky question Yeah, it's super cool and just knowing that for example, we're going to talk about memory and dreams memory is not only You know Apart like the hippocampus is not just the the center for memory like people I think I've known that it's more integrative like the neocortex is involved for example Which leads me to one of the questions that Kyoto from YouTube has asked Which is are there any chords to the frequency in what makes people remember their dreams more? Can they be explained by having one part of the brain more activated or anything like that? Yes, a great question. So it turns out 95% of dreams are not women some people forget their dreams all the time and the reason is the Unique really really needs their tone in you need, you know, these structures to be These chemicals to be available when you sleep so you can transfer short-term memories to long-term memories, right? So given that Chemical is not available. So serotonin is important for that process You will forget your dreams, but in fact when you wake up when wakefulness occurs There's a surge of serotonin to your sort of your brain is flooded Your cortex is flooded with serotonin and nor adrenaline and that explains why you can remember your dreams Exactly in that time window of like a minute or 30 seconds That's because your brain is flooded with serotonin and so it's a good time to do it having a dream journal Now in terms of remembering your dreams, there is a correlate. So people that are To my people that have more was it it escapes me now because you know, I think it was If you can't remember your dreams I was either heavy sleepers or people that have a fragmented sleep It escapes me right now, but there's certainly a correlate of how people that remember I think it was yeah, I have to I have to think about it. I can't remember. Maybe maybe it comes back memory You see it's about remembering dreams There is certainly a correlate of that But but yeah, 95 or so percent of dreams are not remembered it has to do with this transfer of memory from short to long and to do with with that being You know that part of the brain not working as it should during during REM sleep Thank you, that's very very interesting I'd love just to know how you know neuroscience connects with our conscious perceptions dreams all that Interesting another question that was submitted along these lines of remembering our dreams was From free who has asked why do you think that some people experience reoccurring dreams? Ah Reoccurring dreams is a good question So I think there are different explanations for it Probably one thing could be in people with trauma and PTSD, right? So because the dreams are so salient and in this like the circuits mediating those dreams, right? Let's say there's a negative association of a night, you know, so it becomes a nightmare and reoccurse Perhaps because your emotional brain the limbic system is overactive and then that dreams keep reoccurring but in terms of people that just have have the same positive remover over like all the time as a good question I think it probably has to do with how often they think about a drink waking life if it has a salient Important meaning for them and then they think about it and it just keep reoccurring So I think so it has to do with salience this term meaning that it's important It has some emotional value for you and then it just keeps reoccurring to that would be my my thought on that That makes a lot of sense actually I was writing my applications for uni and As a part of it I had to write a personal statement and this is an important piece of writing So people kind of understand why I want to do what I want to do and I kept thinking about it So actually two nights ago. I don't know what happened I literally wrote the first paragraph in my dreams and then I woke up and wrote this down and it was it's literally in my Applications right now. So I think that makes a lot of sense just to you know Explain it by Having that emotional salience aspect. It's definitely very true for me Yeah, and that too but also I was just interesting about the whole idea like having insights in your dreams So it turns out because so we mentioned that this chemical and serotonin is not available Right so during REM during REM sleep and that explains the logic and all that not working, right? But also so nor adrenaline also the neurons that produce this chemical is also on sort of taking a nap forgive me But they're taking a nap and and so for that reason because you know adrenaline and nor adrenaline, right? You need a adrenaline to really focus in and be sort of really narrow and focused and because nor adrenaline is not available during REM sleep Well, that explains why Cons you can think in a more sort of broad way that concepts can float around more and you are less focused than on things Well in a sense that allows you to be more creative, right? Because then again because logic is out of the picture and because you you have this more broad perspective You can think of things in novel new ways and give have fresh insights And there's lots of examples of like didn't you know the great mathematician at Trinity College Ramanujan did Yes, I know. Yeah, you know, right? So So yeah, Monica and I you're Oxford and I use I did my PC at Cambridge. So we have You know, so well this guy he was he was he was having insights in his dreams and sort of mathematical insights that Were great for his time, you know and stuff like that and and we had Edison to so Edison I believe it was Edison. I'm pretty sure so what he would do is that he would sleep like he would sit on a table like this Or a chair like this, excuse me, and you have like a spoon in his hand and and And a plate on the floor and he would keep the spoon like this, right? So like this there's a camera is here. Yeah Who'd have the spoon in his hand and there was a plate on the floor and he would sort of drift off to sleep And and then by the time he would fall asleep, you know, the spoon would go on the on the plate and you know And then he would wake up and write down his dreams and this was a way to get insight to The dream information so he could have new discoveries. So yeah dreams are an insight Interesting world and I've certainly been able to actually get some of my own ideas scientific ideas from dreams, you know So yeah, it's it's a it's a very interesting world You've probably heard of Kekule the scientist who apparently dreamt about the structure of benzene so the story was people didn't really know what benzene would have looked like but he had this dream where a snake was chasing his own tail and It created that, you know sick click structure of benzene, which Was true to an extent. There were some details that were lacking But the basis of it was essentially or so-called informed by dreams. So it's lovely to see this Interaction between creativity and applications to science or real life. Yeah, exactly And especially because dreams are supposed to be this like weird fluffy world that lacks sort of, you know The laws of reality Don't don't come here to our sort of, you know Scientists would like to be precise and all that and here you are in this sort of world where everything is bizarre and strange And yet you can have you know striking scientific insights that can that can guide your science So it shows you how how, you know, how amazing that is but yeah for sure We actually have a question that was just sent in and it's quite relevant to our discussion now So I thought maybe we can chat about that and if there are any more live questions from our members Just do put it in the chat. We'll get to it Charmaine has asked Contrary to how Dreams can be used to inform scientific findings. How true is just general dream interpretations Is there a meeting behind things like teeth falling off or like people chasing you things like that Things like that. It's a great question. Is there is there a meaning to that so There's the brain right there is the brain as we mentioned somebody chasing you Well, that can explain by the brain and your emotional centers being overactive, right? And I want to really make sure this point is clear, right? So the frontal cortex is like that the super ego of Freud or the sort of CEO and it's sort of dampens your emotions That's so when you go out and face a bear or whatever situation, right? Your emotions will flare up and then you will have your cortex telling you telling the emotional part Well, relax or whatever the case might be, right? It will sort of have that and during dreams the cortex is simply simply so weak that the emotion will get the better of you, right? So so that and so this shift in neurochemistry can explain a lot of things So the question is is there then additional meaning to all of that and and and I think well potentially There might be other meanings to it like psychological or whatever But but but you can also definitely there's a descriptive Meaning I think in terms of the brain So somebody then that I knew briefly at Harvard Alan Hopson, he I knew him I contracted with him a few times, you know, it was a very caring guy he was very warm very warm person a great dream researcher and Unfortunately passed away recently So he has a lot of ideas about how you know how you have all this neural firing dream You know REM sleep or you have the dreams in fact if you look at the brain of somebody in REM sleep, right? You know and you each job on the activity of neurons the guy in REM sleep looks just like the person who's awake, right? So there's the fact if you look deep enough the guy in REM He looks more awake than the guy who's actually awake in some cases. There's a burst of activity of neurons So the question is is the brain just trying to make sense of all these neurons by creating coherent stories? Like the brain is a storyteller. We know that, you know, so we survive by telling stories So if you have things in the environment your brain will create stories and narratives around that So the brain is a great storyteller So is the brain simply making sense of all this neural activity and saying look Let me, you know, create a Korean story around that or is there a deeper meaning? I think there's that's up to to question and it depends on the perspective you're coming from So if you're somebody looking at it from a spiritual perspective, you might have one view If you're coming from the brain perspective, you have one view But definitely the descriptive brain perspective makes a lot of sense from from that, you know, a point of view. So so yeah, that's uh Was there anything else embedded in that question? So there was a question of Uh, if the dreams have meaning, right? Is was that yes, they have interpretation. Yeah, that was Charmaine's question Hope you enjoyed the answer Charmaine if you have any follow-ups well Do let us know we did touch on the topics of like themes that come up in dreams So I'll put time stamps on those parts later on for them to check out And I just want to say for people who are just joining us That we're currently talking about the questions that you submitted on our youtube and our discord regarding dreams in general But we'll soon get into sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming So please continue watching and then we'll get to answer your questions live all very exciting stuff to come um So another question that was submitted by alexander I think it's one of our last questions in their dream section Is that can dreams be so mundane that they're often confused for real memories? It's quite specific, but very interesting. Yeah, it's a good question. Can dreams be so mundane that they would be? Um sort of confused for memories Well, the thing is in people with narcolepsy. So these these are patient population Where the people they might fall asleep So I usually give a lecture and I say if I if you fall asleep during the lecture Then that makes sense. I'm just being boring But if I fall asleep as the lecture then I might have narcolepsy, right? So it's this these are people who've just fall asleep all of a sudden Now it turns out people with narcolepsy ironically Or strangely rather tend to these people tend to sometimes mistake a dream The dream world with with the the wakeful world so there can be some confusing or things leaking over but typically Can people forget I think they're yeah, they probably could um My but it's not it's not really that common. I think um Yeah, I don't think it's common there so that there's actually a debate about what deja vu, right? Whether when you go see something like you go and you see You go to Egypt for the first time right first time and you see the pyramid or something or that's a bad question That's because you've seen that in movies We won't see someplace new right and you say oh my god I've been here before what's going on and the question then so some people explain that away by saying look you had a dream Where you saw some similar landscape in your dream you forgot about it and you're seeing that now and then that's deja vu So, uh, it's it's a good question. I'm not sure if it's 100% known, but but I'm but I'm sure it could be possible Yeah, I've heard some I think it was a concept called like false awakening where you essentially just dream about Going about your day and I've had that happen to me once I would dream that I just get up brush my teeth Like eat and then only to wake up and realize that it was a dream and that's exactly what I'm gonna do Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's that's that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's really well There's a lot of these things or when you do a certain task a lot like You know if you do something over and over during particular day Then you like driving like I've had where I was driving like three or four hours Then I go to bed and I dream of myself driving and things like that where so that's another example of Yeah, of something that uh, but but yeah Yeah, let's um Transfer into more interesting experiences of sleep. So things like sleep paralysis and lose a dreaming now But before we do I just want to give a thank you to nancy g for being our new member It's our members that allow us to make these streams possible. So thank you very much And yeah, so for sleep paralysis, we definitely have a lot of questions for these I think it might be a good plan to just Give our viewers an idea of what sleep paralysis is for those who don't know or who thought for those who are just curious to learn more Yeah, yeah, so sleep paralysis is a very interesting phenomenon and it affects about 20 percent of the population We've had at least one of these episodes. So it sort of entails you being paralyzed During during uh, you know waking up from sleep or falling asleep Which is the technical definition, but like typically you would be sleeping and then you realize my god I'm actually awake. I can see my surroundings, but uh, I can't move. I can't speak So I'm paralyzed Then you might feel like there's a shadow or or being from the corner of the room approaching you Pressing on your chest. Um, and yeah, you might see shadow like creatures Um, and so it has this basic You know experience to it But we call what we call phenomenology of like you being paralyzed upon falling asleep or awakening and then yeah being unable to move or speak Yeah, so it's quite quite interesting and spooky experience Are there any triggers that can give rise to someone being more likely to have sleep paralysis? Yes, so there there are there are triggers. Um, so sleep paralysis So let me just yes if you have the sort of fragmented sleep So if your sleep is fragmented if you have anxiety It's repellent drink alcohol and things like that. Uh, college students were stressed tend to have higher rates There's a genetic component that would push you into waking up during during REM So this phenomenon just to be clear it is it occurs out of REM sleep, right? So as we mentioned during REM sleep, you are paralyzed from head to toe, right? So you can't move you cannot speak now And and and that paralysis occurs because structures in the lower part of your brain are paralyzing you As we mentioned preventing you from acting out your dreams and hurting yourself Now occasionally for some reason that's actually not completely known Your perceptual part of the brain can start becoming active And you start being perceptually awake Even though you're physically in REM sleep in the sense that you are paralyzed And so you have this collision between sort of the waking world perception Colliding with the REM physiology So you have these two worlds colliding and then on top of that you can then have What we would call a remmentation or dream the dream world projecting into your wakeful world So the world of dreams can you know, you're technically Dreaming with your eyes open in that situation, which is quite You know peculiar. So that's what it is. But yes, definitely these triggers these things I mentioned could could lead you to have more sleep paralysis And and we've done research around the world on this. I think I like five or six countries now and It's a really deep phenomenon people around the world explains the paralysis in different ways so In italy people will talk about in some parts of italy people will talk about a pandafica Which is like a witch or a giant cat that comes at night attacks you in egypt It's something called the jinn or the evil genies of like Aladdin if you've seen that cartoon Yeah, so that's that's the egyptian version And in denmark people just say it's stress physiology anxiety things like that to help people denmark tends to explain it And then yeah in the us and in some populations people will talk about space alien abduction You're lying you're paralyzed unable to move or speak. So that's a subgroup in in the u.s We'll talk about that. So there are these explanations But interestingly what our research shows is that if you have fearful terrifying you know Explanations for sleep paralysis. Well, that can affect your you know, the experience itself it can have like, you know Like the placebo effect, uh, you know, I'd tell you drink some water monica and this water is like super juice You drink it and you become like super strong. Well, this is the opposite. You know, it's called the nocebo or nocebo effect I tell you'll die from taking this pill which is just, uh, you know salt or whatever. It's not really anything Then you're you react to it. So similarly, we think that because of these these explanations these very exotic elaborate explanation for sleep paralysis A lot of you know, it can lead to the experience becoming much more Profound in ways. I'm happy to go into detail. Do you want me to go explain what our research shows or yeah? I think that'd be wonderful. I think okay We're happy to hear it. All right. Very cool. So basically it's something like this. So We found that in I want I really wanted to look at Egypt because it's a place with a lot of you know spiritual traditions going back to the pharaohs and all that you know magic and mystery And Denmark is typically more of a sort of a secular place Irrational I grew up in Denmark. I love Denmark and I love Egypt. I've spent time there, too Okay, so uh, it turns out in Egypt people have excessive fear of sleep paralysis because of some of the cultural Explanations so they will you know 50 percent of people will say that they can die from sleep paralysis So it's much more terrifying and and and fearful in that way But it also turns out that people in In Egypt will have sleep paralysis Three times more frequently so the people who have sleep paralysis Have it three times more often than people from Denmark And also their perceived length of the paralysis meaning how long they think they're paralyzed is Significantly longer than the Danish people. So it turns out it seems from their Understanding their minds have changed the experience into something much more fearful frequent and salient emotionally, you know powerful and What we think might be going on is something I usually explain by the little Lisa example So let me tell you what I mean. This little Lisa example. This is the following. So if you live in a culture, okay Let's say, uh, this is far far away Uh fictitious island. There's this little girl. Okay. She's called little Lisa and she's sitting by the Dining table and having dinner with her grandmother and the grandmother says look little Lisa There's this monster coming at night. Okay. It looks like this and this and this. Okay. It has long bangs It's like, you know, it has, you know, it looks, you know specific features You know, it looks like this and that it will come it will choke you strangle you to all these things to you Right Now little Lisa is terrified. She's scared now She goes and mind you she has never experienced sleep paralysis in her entire life She goes to bed now and she experiences sleep paralysis for the first time. Okay, what's going on? All right So it turns out by you sleeping and having anxiety and what we call nocturnal arousal Meaning the emotional part of your brain is overactive Then it's it itself can push you into having sleep paralysis and wake up during REM sleep Okay, so that there's a there's a correlation There's a link between you having brain activity in the emotional part and waking up during REM and having sleep paralysis That's the first thing second second when you are expecting sleep paralysis to occur You are in a way primed to having it. So this is a form of Conformatory serving serving of your body and bodily sensation. So you're lying there Lisa is lying there and serving anything is holding her down Anything is pressing on her chest or pressing on her body And so she will try to and when she then suddenly feel something, you know in her body as being stiff She will wake up and when she then wakes up she's paralyzed during REM. She will try to move and when she tries to move She might see whatever her culture culture dictates in terms of what the hallucinations might look like So she will see that ghost or that monster or whatever that her her grandmother was talking about and she wakes up the next day She's terrified. She will get she will go tell other people and her friends in school Oh, I saw this monster. It looks like this and that and they will also start perhaps hallucinating You know having the same type of sleep paralysis occur And little Lisa will be more terrified for the next night and the third night and the fourth night So she will have it even more and then by a month later She might even be predisposed to anxiety and chronic, you know, perhaps maybe even PTSD from these kinds of experiences And that's what our research suggests that in these cultures in Italy, for example, we found that sleep paralysis having this experience was associated with things like, you know trauma things like You know anxiety and in Italy as well We found a similar pattern in Italy where people have Cultural explanations. Does this make sense or am I just rambling here? What do you think? No, I think it's very fascinating And it really goes to show that neuroscience is truly not an isolated discipline. It borrows a lot from Even philosophy, I think and psychology and it blends it all together and gives each person a unique experience because ultimately everyone's different everyone has gone through different things and For Lisa it might it might be this and who knows maybe for like bob. They might have a different experience. So It's very interesting to see in different contexts how people interpret the same situation Absolutely. No, no, it's very true. You know how these things work and and and it's certainly Interesting to see how your your your culture can dictates dictates the things but at the same time, I want to add here that There also seems to be a strong Neurological component in terms of explaining why people have certain hallucinations, right? So we have I have theories for why people see shadow like beings Why, you know, people have out of body experiences and it has to do with those structures in the brain That, you know, are creating a sense of eye sense of self, right? And so Drink sleep paralysis you are paralyzed unable to move or speak And so your first reaction there is to try to move try to sort of get out of there So your brain will send all these signals for you to move But there's no feedback coming back to your body helping you to create a sense of self in those parts of the brain And so this the sync sort of this the synchrony or this sort of Mismatching of neural signals your you know signals going out Move but no proprioceptive feedback meaning feedback from your limbs from your joints From muscle telling your brain how to create a sense of self. I hope this portion portion is not too complicated It's very simple in the sense that your sense of self gets distorted And it explains why people not only will have like see shadow like beings, but they will also often I've had those hallucinations sleep paralysis or visions or whatever where you see your legs flying up in the air or you're seeing yourself slightly, you know flying outside yourself or I've had a copy of myself hovering over me and having a chat with him and out of body experience And so all of this is a part of of the sleep paralysis experience the self being heavily distorted. Um So yeah Yeah, let's talk further about this whole experience of dreams or how we can shift into questions that we have about lucid dreaming um, so before we do so we have a new Member gypsy. Thank you so much for being a member on the psych to go youtube channel Um, jc has actually asked the question before we shift Do you believe it's possible when we sleep in our consciousness? Um could cause us to get sucked into someone else's body I think that's very interesting Is it a perception? Yeah So I want to can you can you say that again? Yeah, I think their question is probably asking more about How real it is that there's the perception in sleep paralysis that you can get like sucked into someone else's body I'm not quite sure exactly, but um, if you have any thoughts on that you can comment. Otherwise we can See if gypsy you have any other Kind of way to rephrase it. So I'm fine with either. What are your thoughts? Yeah, so I think that um The thing is without it's a great question. Um In a sense, right? So the sense of self is sort of is is is float It's you feel like you're floating outside your body and and things like that. So It gets to the question of whether This is how the self is constructed, right? So as a neuroscientist, we would say that well Because your self sense of self is loosened up, uh, then then Of course, we wouldn't say that you can be sucked into somebody else's body per se because there's no mechanism in in neuroscience That brain but but but but certainly from from the perception point of view, you know, you might feel like you are You know Going into somebody else's body that could Yeah, I hope that yeah, I hope that answered your question Gypsy if you have any more specific things or any follow-up then please let us know in the Um comment section. I'm monitoring it. So for any of you just join you can still ask questions there We'll be very happy to tackle them in our last 15 minutes or so and Yeah, so gypsy just sent a follow-up saying that she experienced being sucked into someone's body and started to experience What was happening to her that is like very scary. Isn't it is very scary? Yeah, so so I think it's it's the idea of the subjective self, right and what's going on And what I want to add here is that during sleep paralysis and this is during my own sleep paralysis experiences too. So You and I Monica had a chat about this a long time ago where my actually my first sleep paralysis episode that I had As coming out of high school. I had this very vivid Experience ups like I feel like it was a ghost in my room trying to choke me and all that and it was so real Right. It was as real as this conversation. I felt like you and I are having so The question was how do how do you know that it's not the real world versus this other world, right? Yeah, always this idea of subjective reality and then physical You know Scientific the world that we're living in that we can observe and measure Now the question is during these subjective experiences We will try to explain that in terms of science, but there's still a strong subjective component to it Like and what does that mean in itself? Now we can we can try to explain that in scientific terms But people have their own subjective experiences of the world that is that it's hard to argue with at the same time Even though you give it this descriptive meaning like I had mentioned before I say that you know your dreams mean this and that But it's not negating that it could not have a spiritual meaning of sorts But it's not negating that it could still have a deeper meaning as well You know But but the point is there is this this subjective and there's the third person scientific view and as a scientist I I just stick to the scientific Point of view and uh, but but but yes, you know, it's not to negate the personal subjective experience of things feeling very real, of course So let's talk about the science of lucid dreaming It's a very interesting thing Sometimes my sister would tell me how she knows that she's dreaming and that she can have control of what she wants to do But for me, I've never experienced lucid dreaming. I think it'd be super interesting to be able to do so So I was thinking maybe we can start off with telling the audience what lucid dreams are and Are there any ways to kind of induce this very realistic sense or sensation of dreaming? It's yeah, a great question lucid dreams are intriguing, right? I mean here you find yourself then in these strange worlds these bizarre landscapes But yet you are aware that it's a dream like, you know, oh my god, I'm dreaming so I can therefore Uh, you know manipulate the this world. I can I can meet people I want to meet I can engage in dreams and fantasies that I've had right people fly People meet people that they want to meet and to all kinds of things So it's it's really a magical and wondrous world And I've certainly found myself in those dreams as I remember as a kid when I first had some dreams like that I it started with me saying to myself. I wanted to fly in my dream. I'm gonna fly. I want to fly. I want to fly This was how it started as a kid, you know, I want to fly and so I slept and then just one day I magically realized my god I can actually I know that I'm dreaming and I can fly now and like peter pan I was just flying all around sort of the landscape It was it was amazing, right? It feels so good and and so since then I've had lucid dreams once in a while and It turns it turns out Dreaming dreaming that you can fly is one of the most common themes in lucid well of lucid dreams So what are lucid dreams? What are they about? Well, it turns out it's our The cortex part of the brain the frontal the logical part of the brain Remember I mentioned that your sense of awareness and logic goes away that we mentioned the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex What not right? So those structures are important for agency knowing Being aware of yourself and they go away during the REM dreams, right? So that's why you don't know that you're dreaming when you're dreaming but occasionally for some reason They can be activated prematurely and then you'll find yourself in this dream where you know You can influence things and and can you induce these? Well, it turns out by telling yourself You know, I want to know that it's a dream, right? That's a way to do it Right or tell yourself if I meet, you know, or you can use light cues So people have like goggles they will use and then seeing certain Light flashing before their eyes and that can help them You know wake up. So there's actually a commercial product, you know, you the usa they do everything, you know Everything so there's like this product where you see light and then that will help you remember Oh, when I see like three flashes of light that means I'm in a dream So remember now something like that Uh, so those are all things and typically people will if they see like William Shakespeare or something like that or death A death relative that can help them remember. It's it's only a dream and then they become lucid But yeah lucid dreams are are fascinating, you know fascinating Yeah, definitely. Um on the topic of lucid dreams or Interesting experiences during dreams. We have a new member Eleanor. Thank you for being a member She has mentioned about the experience of having Dreams within dreams, which essentially is this She mentions that she will dream that falls asleep and then dream insider dream Is there a kind of interesting interpretation of this or? Well, it's a nurse. Yeah, it's a great question how this works. Well, let me let me tell you Dreams within dreams is a very curious phenomenon and I've had that I've had dreams And then a dream within that dream So I was in a in and then so I was in a dream and then I had another dream within that and then a third layer So I've gone down three layers and the thing about it. It's fascinating when you wake up You think you're woke, you know awake, but it's still a dream and you say, oh my god I had this other dream. It was so amazing, but now I'm awake. What a magical Great dream I had but then you're actually still inside the dream and then you wake up Here in this world, right? Where you realize all these all layers. So what's going on in the brain? I think it's a good question I don't think it's known what is going on in terms of the circuitry while you have that Dream but I've had also I've had dreams. I only remembered in other dreams So I would have like a dream And then I forget about it seemingly and then I wake then I have another dream and I remember that other dream Oh, I had a dream like two weeks and I only remember that You know, it's almost like those circuits are only activated in another dream So that's another really weird phenomenon, but but let me tell you this The dream world is fascinating and it's strange because Look, I've had a dream where I woke myself up from laughter during a dream So I had a joke. So I was sitting and chatting with this chap in my dream So we're having a chat, you know, and this guy told me a joke and I woke myself up from laughter So I would ha ha ha, you know, it's so funny and this is what burst out in laughter And I woke up and I said, well, what's happening? Oh, it was just a dream But when you think about it a dream is only funny or jokes are excuse me It's only funny when you don't know the the punchline of the joke That's what makes the joke funny, right? So you have a certain story plot and then you have the punchline But you have to not know the whole story plot You know the whole thing before it's funny But the other guy in my dream presumably was myself telling me a joke And my brain was suppressing the information of the joke in order to make it funny to me and then wake me up So it's strange how the brain works in layers like this And uh, yeah So so absolutely the dream has the dream world and the brain has all these these interesting layers And when you think about it when you have a meaningful meaningful conversation with someone in your dream I've had those so I uh, I've had dreams with sort of Really intense meaningful conversations with people Uh in my dreams, but you know, my brain was creating a theory of mind or Constructing agency and good at being and allowing that person to have a meaningful conversation with me So I was it was me having a meaningful conversation with myself in that way. So yes, it's quite it's quite astonishing Yeah, I remember only I think three of my dreams like in my entire life I know I've dreamt more than that but it's very interesting to kind of see and analyze the themes of the dreams I've had I've had one dream about visiting different universities I have no idea why probably because uni is such a big part of my life another dream about Literally eating chocolate and being able to taste it like I could taste it. It felt so real It was amazing frankly Yeah, they want you to taste something. What was it? So you've only remembered three dreams in your life Is that what you're yeah, I'm I'm sure it's a bit of a recency bias because all of these were really In the past month or so. I forgot about everything before and It's just very interesting. It seems kind of random But lastly I had a dream that I was in London I have no it's just it's crazy, but soon thinking about it. I realized that yeah, you need a big part of my life I love chocolate and I love London. So Yeah, it kind of makes sense. Are you a heavy sleeper? I suppose you're very heavy sleeper. Is that right? Um, I'm actually not sure. I think in the middle of the night, of course I think nothing can wake me up, but close to around The morning I feel like I hear things. I hear people talking I don't know if it's actually a dream or if it's real life But I do hear people talking and that eventually wakes me up Yeah, yeah for my recollection it turns out it's it's it's people that are heavy sleepers that that don't That remember their dreams less, right? So they usually say drink a Probably wine. Yeah drink drink more water and a big cup of water before you go to bed Then that can help you remember your dreams is People say that sometimes but but um, yeah, it's interesting about not remembering your dreams and and sort of uh Yeah, that that that whole world isn't it? It's it's it's quite something. Uh, I was trying to say something but I forgot It's a slip my slip my mind right now, but yeah Yeah, I always love to hear what people generally their themes their dreams Because it's really interesting to see how it correlates with their life, right? Like yep, it's super interesting So if any of our viewers have any Interesting themes or things I just keep coming up just let us know in the chat and I'll respond to them after the live stream But yeah, let's end this on a very creative note and for those who want to learn more about neural science or psychology or Receive some expertise through dr. Jalal's video Please check out our description box because I linked his youtube channel and other social media links there So please follow him if you like this content and also let us know in the comment section what you want to see next As I'm very excited to be able to host More ask an expert live streams about topics that you want to learn about So with that, thank you so much for watching. Thank you so much dr. Jalal for joining And Yeah, we'll see you all in the comment section. Bye