 The next item of business is a debate on motion 5595 in the name of Liz Smith on teacher training programme. Can I ask those who wish to contribute to press a request to speak buttons? I call on Liz Smith to speak to you and move the motion up to eight minutes, please. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I draw members' attention to my register of interests, which intimates that I am a member of the GTCS? Last Wednesday, the members of the education committee heard evidence presented by five trainee teachers and seven fully qualified teachers, including one-headed department and one-head teacher. At the start of that committee session, it was very refreshing to hear these individuals' passionate belief that teaching was a vocation, one that could make the biggest impact on young people and one that could bring rich rewards, including when measured against the other professions. Their wealth of talent was plain for all to see, and I am sure that they were exactly the kind of person into whose capable hands parents would like to deliver their children at the start of each morning. They were caring, courteous, articulate, determined and ambitious for their profession, and we should acknowledge that they all had some very positive things to say about teaching and about their coursework and placements. However, the rest of their message could hardly have been more blunt. In delivering it, they echoed the views of many of the 700 respondents to the committee's call for evidence. Indeed, some aspects of that message were truly shocking. That there is a complete inadequacy within some teacher training programmes for teachers to learn how to teach literacy and numerously effectively. Something that was confirmed by the Scottish Government's own report published only this morning. That there was very limited support for teachers learning about additional support needs, which, after all, are now around 25 per cent of the school population. Or how to help children to stay safe with the growing problems on the internet. That the organisation of some aspects of school placements is chaotic. That there is a huge range of experiences for trainees, some describing it as outstanding, some describing it as demoralising in a complete waste of time. That in some schools trainees are asked to do little more than cover classes or do the photocopying. That there is a growing number of departments not taking trainees at all because staff are too busy. And that for some trainees, no one ever sat down with them to go over the feedback. So it is little wonder that so many trainees have been asking questions of the teacher training establishments and of the Scottish Government. If last week laid bare the problems in teacher training, it also gave us yet another set of stark statistics, which tell us just how badly many of Scotland's pupils are doing when it comes to basic literacy. If teachers themselves are not being given the necessary professional training, then how can we possibly expect our pupils to come out with good results? Presiding Officer, it is even worse. Those problems were identified several years ago. Let me quote some research done six years ago by Sankster Anderson and O'Hara from Edinburgh University's Institute of Education, which identified that there were issues with the actual knowledge of language being used by people who were training to be teachers in Scotland. Just one example, they found that 41 per cent of the trainees couldn't correctly define the term adverb, or in other research by Henderson and Rodriguez, who uncovered the fact that two thirds of first-year B.Ed. students failed to reach 80 per cent competence at the numeracy level expected of primary 7. Likewise, Graham Donaldson's report into teacher training in 2011 was clear too, that teacher selection should be much more rigorous with reference to literacy and numeracy, and that much more work had to be undertaken to provide an effective continuum between universities and schools. Teachers needed to be skilled in their own subject knowledge, as well as being successful imparters of that knowledge to their pupils. He recommended that there should be a more effective mechanism of teacher mentoring, something that the Scottish Government acknowledged when it published its own interim report on Donaldson last year. The important point here is that many trainee teachers have not been getting formal knowledge-based training in mathematics or language and learning how to deliver that as distinct from having to study abstract theories about how mathematics and language could be taught. Our witnesses backed up that point, with one saying that she didn't feel trainees had sufficient skills in numeracy to be able to teach it to 11-year-olds at a reasonable standard. Then we come to the practical support, which helps modern-day classroom management. One panel member said that very little of what we actually work on in university seems to have any relevance at all to what happens in the classroom. Another said that there was next to nothing being taught about classroom management. Cabinet Secretary, I think that parents will be horrified by these aspects of the evidence. Those problems are bad enough, but there are others, which, although they might not impact on every trainee, they impact on a great many, and those relate to the organisation of school placements. For those of us who have been through the teacher training programme, albeit many years ago, and there are several of us in the chamber this afternoon, those placements were not only the best part of the course, but they were that part that defined whether you could cut the mustard about whether you could be a teacher. To be told that quite a large number of those placements are not working out well is deeply worrying, and yet another reason why they are not giving our trainee teachers a fair chance. He cannot have a student telling us that he only found out very late on a Friday evening where his Monday morning placement was to be, or be told that he would only be used as a cover teacher. How on earth can we motivate and encourage these teachers if their first introduction to the classroom is the chaotic mismanagement of their placement? Surely that is something that can be easily sorted. Presiding Officer, being a teacher is the best job in the world, or so it should be, even better than politics at times. But that is not the case at the moment. The evidence that we heard, just like that which we have heard about literacy and numeracy, about the mismanagement of the curriculum for excellence, about teacher shortages, about problems with subject choice, is deeply worrying. Our trainees are not only encountering major problems with their own professional instruction, but they are watching some of the more experienced in the profession that they want to enter. They see frustration, poor morale, stress, exhaustion and anger. This morning, the Scottish Government has produced its own report, which, although I have not been able to read it in its full detail, clearly flags up many of the same issues that we heard at the committee. It also explains that that is not nearly enough effective communication between the teacher training institutions, the GTCS, local authorities and the Scottish Government. On top of the huge issues over teacher shortages, that is putting significant stress on the profession. I call on the Scottish Government this afternoon to bring forward, with the most urgent priority, the necessary changes that will make all aspects of teacher training fit for purpose. I repeat again, if we cannot train our teachers properly, what hope have we got for our young people? I move the motion in my name. I now call John Swinney to speak to and move amendment 5595.2. Six minutes please, cabinet secretary. Presiding Officer, there are a number of very important issues in this debate, and I welcome the opportunity to discuss them in Parliament today. I confirm that the amendment that I will move is complementary to the motion that has been put forward by Liz Smith and the Government will support the motion that Liz Smith has put forward today by virtue of the importance of the issues raised. There are a number of core components in a world-class education system that are required, a flexible and child-centred school curriculum, a wider policy framework to meet the diverse needs of all of our young people at every stage of their journey through life, modern accessible buildings creating the right environment for children to learn in, an evidence-based approach to improvement, but perhaps the most crucial component is to ensure that children get the right support to learn at the right time, and teachers are crucial in this endeavour. Teachers are key to children's achievements at school and to support our ambitions to raise the bar for all and to close the attainment gap. I want to begin my speech by putting on record my thanks to each and every one of Scotland's new and existing teachers for all that they do for our children in our schools. Their role and contribution is immense, and I want them to know that this Government values them and is committed to investing in them and their skills and expertise, to give them the confidence to teach, while also giving them the right environment within which to do their jobs. Teachers must be and feel free to teach our young people, but we must also ensure that our teachers have the tools to teach. I, too, am concerned by the evidence presented by trainee teachers to the Education and Skills Committee about their experience and the perceived gaps in that education. That led to this Parliament agreeing last week to do more to equip teachers with appropriate skills and knowledge to teach online safety for young people in our classrooms. The committee has also identified a lack of focus on additional support for learning in additional teacher education and training. I am also concerned by the findings in the research that was published by the Government today, which analysed initial teacher courses and found variations in the time spent on key components of the curriculum in the widest variation in the crucial area of literacy. In saying all of those things, I acknowledge the issues that exist within initial teacher education, the Government committed in the delivery plan last June that we would investigate those issues, and we have done exactly that and we have reported to Parliament. Of course, and I am sure that Liz Smith would be the first to acknowledge this, important issues about responsibility for the delivery of initial teacher education. The Government does not control universities, despite what some may allege to be the case. Universities have a responsibility for the delivery of quality of education and if there are issues that are raised and issues raised by either witnesses that are presenting evidence to committee or evidence that is marshaled by the Government or by feedback from other aspects of the profession, I look to everybody in the system to fulfil their obligations to address those issues properly. I will give way to Mr Scott. Tavish Scott. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary on that principle. One of the factors that was mentioned today in terms of placements at schools was from Murray House. The representatives from Murray House said today that this was the worst year in 15 years in terms of seeking to find school placements and the cabinet secretary was aware of that. Would he recognise that what he argued was that the diversity that is looked for in placements is one of the issues that now needs to be confronted? What is indeed the answer to that point? John Swinney. The answer to that point is that there must be in place an efficient system for ensuring the timely delivery of placements for young people who are going through teacher training. The general teaching council holds the student placement system and the Government has requested the GTCS, the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland, who are crucial in interaction with local authorities and the universities, to jointly review the system and take action to help to improve the process at a national level. When it gets to the point where I have to intervene to the GTCS to ensure that young people can get placements, then that is unacceptable. However, there is an obligation on the profession to recognise the education opportunities for both trainee teachers and the profession to learn in that interactive way by receiving and welcoming new trainee teachers into our schools around the country to make sure that the interests of young people can be properly taken into account. I will give way. Johann Lamont. The Deputy First Minister was aware of the evidence that we did here in the committee that the experience of trainee teachers was of being welcomed by staff, of people who wanted to support them but simply because the scale of the workload was unable to fulfil that mentoring role. Was it not recognised as important? Were you finding it difficult to meet the challenge of it? John Swinney. As Johann Lamont knows, I have been tackling the issue of workload within schools. I was discussing it in Curtin primary in Carluke this morning where I spoke to teachers who were positively welcoming the impact of the benchmarks that the Government has put in place to significantly clarify the curricular experience for young people in our schools. I will have to bring my remarks to a conclusion. Before I do, let me put on record some of the strength of our initial teacher education system because it is important that Parliament hears all of that data. The recently published Complete University Guide rated four Scottish universities in the top seven across the United Kingdom for teacher education. In 2016 we published The Evaluation of Teaching Scotland's Future that showed that 64 per cent of respondents felt that their initial teacher education was either effective or very effective. That same report found that 83 per cent of respondents felt that the support given to them by the school in their placement was either effective or very effective. I asked Parliament to reflect on all of the data that I put on the record, along with the acknowledgement by the Government that the measures that we have taken already, as part of the review today, will be pursued to ensure that we have the strongest possible approach to initial teacher education to create the foundations for good teacher training in Scotland. I call Daniel Johnson to speak to and move amendment 5595.1 in the name of Ian Gray up to five minutes, please. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Talented inspirational teachers can transform a student's experience of school and their ability to learn and achieve. I'm sure that we'll hear many stories in the debate this afternoon, but I would go further. The importance of teachers is not just about individual experience, but collectively, as a profession, teachers are critical to our education system. We need capable, knowledgeable teachers that can consistently and effectively impart knowledge and understanding. Inspirational and effective teaching should not be the exception but consistent in every school and every classroom. The talk of buildings, equipment, curricula, class sizes—none of those things count unless we have able teachers in every school. To echo the words of the First Minister, I would go further. I put it like this. They are the vital infrastructure of our education system. The importance of initial teacher education at E is therefore clear. It provides the baseline from which our teachers commend their professional lives. That is why the education committee's work first planning is so important, and I welcome the motion this afternoon. Last week, our committee heard from a panel of student teachers benefiting from their insights and experiences. Their commitment and enthusiasm for teaching was inspiring. I was left with no doubt of their passion and focus for ensuring that young people meet their potential. Despite that, they raised a number of key issues regarding their training. Those were a handful of voices, echoed by many survey responses received by the committee. I would like to focus on just two key issues— placements and the effectiveness and relevance of course content. Placements are a vital, perhaps, the most important part of teacher training, where what is learnt in the lecture theatre is tried and refined in the classroom. We heard that trainee teachers sometimes only find out where they are going two to three days before a placement. When they arrive, they are not always expected to be travelling significant distances yet reimbursement for expenses is inconsistent, not always complete and can take time to come through. That exception, each of the trainee teachers told us that they wanted more practical preparation and technique. They described an emphasis on theory with importance of areas described but without the methods to tackle them. John Mason I wonder if the member would accept that in all subjects—and that includes myself as an accountant— the teaching at university tends to be a little on the theoretical side and the practical side often comes later. Daniel Johnson I think that the issue of my concern is that their evidence was that the emphasis was too heavy on the theory and it was not until they were in the classroom that they were really learning anything of the relevance to their teaching. That is the key concern. Those are serious issues that have a clear bearing on the two overarching issues facing our school system, recruitment of teachers and literacy and numeracy. With 700 unfilled teacher vacancies we need to attract new people to the profession. We must do better on teacher placements. Problems arising from reimbursement only exacerbate the issues of affordability of study, especially for those changing careers with families and prior financial commitments. Chaotic placements can only deter people from entering into training, something that we can ill afford. The evidence from PISA and SSLN is that we have seen a decline in literacy and numeracy standards both relatively internationally and on our own measures. I'm concerned not just for parents but surely for us all. The comments about the adequacy of core literacy and numeracy in ITE must ring alarm bells. I welcome the sober and earnest response that we have had from the cabinet secretary in previous statements and indeed in terms of his comments today and in the amendment that he has put before Parliament. We must also be frank about where we are and what we need to do. Seeing curriculum for excellence through means ensuring that it is properly supported in ITE. The only way we will address the declines in literacy and numeracy is if we equip our teachers to tackle it. The only way we will recruit teachers into the profession is if the courses are well run and students are adequately supported throughout them. The cabinet secretary has delayed his governance review and I hope that this enables consideration of the education committee's recent evidence and examination on the effectiveness of ITE. We have an opportunity ahead of us. The teacher qualification programme's accreditation is due for renewal. We should ask the general teaching council to reflect upon these issues as it does so. Given education Scotland's role in inspecting and evaluating ITE programmes, we must look at whether it makes sense for accreditation and inspection to be carried out by different bodies and look at what impact this has had. Our education system must be built in secure foundations with initial teacher education at its very cornerstone. I move to the open speeches. Can I say to everyone that speakers will be cut out unless everyone is very disciplined? Can I start the debate by declaring my interests? I am married to a primary school teacher and I have two children at primary school. The whole issue of standards of teaching in our schools is one that is deeply personal to me. I think that there are few people in Scotland today who do not have some concerns about what is happening in our schools. Indeed, and to be fair, the case for change and improvement is explicitly supported by the current Scottish Government with its agenda for reform, albeit one that is now being pursued after 10 years in office. Although we on those benches might have pursued a different approach from some of the proposals taken forward by the Scottish Government, we do at least share a recognition that the status quo is untenable. The curriculum for excellence that we need to recognise was introduced with the best of intentions. Behind it lay a philosophical approach that said that creativity and solving were the vital skills that young people needed to acquire in order to address the challenges of the modern world. The approach to acquiring knowledge was as important, if not more important, than the acquisition of knowledge for its own sake. There is nothing wrong with this general approach to education, providing that the basic skills in reading, writing and counting are still being taught. Somewhere along the way, we need to focus on the acquisition of those basic skills. The evidence of that was seen all too starkly in the Scottish Survey of Literacy and Numeracy, where the latest figures published just last week make sobering reading for this Government, for the whole education system and for pupils and parents. The percentage of children in S2 who are not at the required level of literacy has more than doubled in four years, from 7 per cent in 2012 to 16 per cent in 2016. The proportion of S2 pupils who can write well or very well has fallen dramatically, from 65 per cent in 2012 to 49 per cent less than half in 2016. It is not only on this measure that we are falling backwards. The international piece of results shows that Scottish education has gone backwards in reading and mathematics and with pupils in England and Northern Ireland and Scottish pupils in every category. We must do better. In opening the debate, Liz Smith made some very important points by the evidence that we heard last week in the Education and Skills Committee in this Parliament. I will not repeat everything that she said. It was clear that when it comes to teacher training there is a lack of focus on how to teach literacy and numeracy effectively. There is very little support for teaching those with additional support needs. There is very limited guidance on classroom management and there is a sometimes chaotic organisation of classroom placements which many would agree are the most vital part of the process of learning to be a teacher. All those matters, because if our teachers are not getting the skills that they need, how can they be reasonably expected to pass those skills on to their pupils? Six years ago, Graham Dunlison told the Scottish Government what needed to be done in his report into teacher training. He said that teacher selection should be more vigorous with reference to literacy and numeracy and recommended a number of other improvements. Sadly, too little has been done in the past six years to address those concerns. I hope that the Scottish Government will push through the reforms that we need to improve the quality of teacher training. All those matters, because if we are going to have a successful nation we need to have the highest possible quality of education. If we are really concerned about reducing inequalities we have to do that by making improvements in our schools. The reality is that the children who are fortunate to get the support at home will usually do well under any system. It is those who do not get the support at home that rely most upon what happens in the classroom. If we are serious about fairness and society we have to get this right and the Scottish Government needs to start upping their game. I will be followed by Joanne Lamont. I remind members that I am the PLO to the cabinet secretary. As much as my useful appearance may dissuade you from believing, a decade ago I was preparing to take up my place at Jordan Hill, then Strathclyde University's teacher training campus to study for a postgraduate qualification in modern studies teaching. CFE was in its infancy. On my course was a former police officer by the name of Colin. I remember Colin telling me that by the time I was done to him criminality was cyclical but as a teacher at the chalk face moulding minds in the classroom there you could really make a difference. It was something that stayed with me. Last week my colleague James Dornan posed perhaps the most pertinent question you can ever be asked in teaching. What made you want to become a teacher? The panel on the education and skills committee last week answered with a variety of different responses. Some that stood out you can make a difference you can change lives and the one that I like the best is to be there for that light bulb moment when a pupil just gets it. I think that we shouldn't lose sight of the reasons which pull people into the profession particularly in the current climate with regard to Scottish education. The Government's amendment today does not hide from the very real challenges we face in Scottish education. The narrative of challenge has been quite clear since the 2015 OECD review last week's SSLN data and today in the Government's own report into initial teacher education. There is a robust rationale that that should not come at the expense of the morale of those working hard in the system right now. As a head teacher in my constituency put it to me, we need to attract the best of the best. The Conservative motion today raises issues regarding the teacher training placement process. In August 2015 I was called by the deputy head in my school could I take a student teacher? I thought about it, a wee bit of re-jigging of the timetable, yes we could probably accommodate a student teacher. A few days later, actually Jenny there's another one to do, the university had nowhere to send them. Course choice for pupils in our secondary schools kicks in after the exam diet, so by June in every academic year our high schools already know how many pupils they have in every department. Our primary schools also already know about their intake in terms of primary one. Universities should therefore be proactively engaging with local schools far earlier to establish suitable student placements. So on this point perhaps something I never thought I'd hear myself say I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson. Last week commented to my colleagues on the education committee, you can't learn it until you see it and placement was the real benefit, it was the highlight. The anecdotal evidence is disparate as you'd expect in any profession. So I carried out my own homework. The teacher who qualified in 2013 and completed the b-ed told me he had some fantastic placements. In one school he spent time visiting specific teachers focusing on certain areas, observing Mr McDonald's co-operative learning strategies, Ms Somerville's use of effective strategies, for example. Another friend, a secondary head teacher, told me that there was a real need in our teaching universities to focus on literacy and numeracy. Yes, but she also flagged the importance of health and wellbeing of pupils as a fundamental in teacher training. The last person I spoke to is a principal teacher at an additional support needs school which has straight through provision. She said quite tellingly, you learn how to teach well if you get a good mentor on placement. So yes, there's work for our universities to do in terms of course content and the majority of teacher learning happens on placement, then we need to radically address how our school's timetable that student experience. Thank you. Thank you very much, particularly for your timekeeping. Johann Lamont to be followed by Fulton MacGregor. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. In response to Jenny Gilruth's comments I'm sure that you will all be shocked to understand or realise that my youthful appearance belies the fact that I started teaching in 1979. A few people in here will remember that that is a world a very, very, very long time ago. I do welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate but I do and I say gently to the Scottish Government a regret that it's again in opposition time. I think that the issues here are so important that the government should be providing time for a fuller consideration of all of the challenges in education and I know that you're focused on delivery but the fact of the matter is we currently are not delivering. The figures and the evidence that comes before us. Of course, there are many challenges. The work of the education committee is instructive here. On a cross-party basis we have explored what is happening and have provided an important opportunity for those who care passionately about education who have an awareness of what is happening in the real world to breach the walls of this Parliament. I think that it is central that their evidence is not simply explained away or used as a means of justifying other action but it should actually be shaping our thinking. The scale of the response to our evidence our calls for evidence tells its own story. In every instance on every issue there has been a deluge of people wanting to share their concerns and their experience. I also note the tone of the debate to date and I welcome the shift to agreement that the motion has presented by the Deputy First Minister but I have to say gently to John Swinney again I welcome that tone but trust that this represents a step away from what I have seen us too often an ill-judged approach taken by the Scottish Government where they have sought perhaps to shoot the messenger or to question the most of those speaking out or simply ignoring the evidence. They need to give proper recognition of the very significant concerns shared by students, parents teachers, support staff and academics. I acknowledge that there is no monopoly of wisdom for any party in this chamber on understanding why we are where we are and how we must move forward but that is true of the Government Party as much as any other and I do not think that it is good enough simply to say we have decided to take this approach and if you do not support us then you are not concerned about those challenges. In this new approach I hope that you will reflect on the way in which he and his colleague Angela Constance responded to the education committee report on additional support needs. I personally was deeply and genuinely offended to see how this cross-party work given voice to those who represent vulnerable young people support workers, teachers describing the barriers to inclusive education to see that in my view being utterly dismissed. That report reflecting the lack of support and the pressure within our schools is not separate from the issues of achievement in literacy and numeracy. They are utterly interlinked and interconnected and I believe that the Scottish Government must move on this issue and understand that you need to move beyond simply individual policy approaches but recognise there is a much bigger question here. If we look at literacy and numeracy and recognise the importance of its impact on young people we have to understand the impact of cuts in local services to support vulnerable families to support children with disabilities and recognise that the budget choices that we are making are making some of these circumstances worse. What supports are there within our schools to support young people? What supports are there out with our schools to ensure that that gap that starts very early in young people's lives is more important? An understanding, as an example too, the importance of further and adult education not simply in individuals achieving their potential when they have been failed in the past but in tackling adult illiteracy allowing them to support their own children in the future. I urge the Government to make good this commitment to see literacy and numeracy in the broader context of the right to education for all our young people. Fulton MacGregor, to be followed by Ross Greer. Fulton MacGregor. I would like to congratulate Liz Smith for her motion which seems to have brought a degree of consensus across the chamber today. Obviously, as others have done in their opening remarks, thank all the teachers and staff involved with additional support needs across our schools and the work that they are doing for all of our children is absolutely invaluable and I think that has been said by most speaker. Let me also start by saying that it is a good day performance across education in Scotland however, there are areas that have been recognised that we do need to change and this Scottish National Party Government is getting on with the job of taking the action that will deliver those improvements. We are investing record amounts in schools to close the attainment gap. £120 million will go direct to schools in the most deprived areas this year alone. As I have said in this chamber before some of the schools will be in receipt of fairly significant sums of money. That is indeed very welcomed and I do not think that this should be downplayed or undervalued in any way and I have enjoyed speaking to head teachers during my many visits to the schools about the inventive ways that they plan to use this money and as you can probably imagine literacy and numeracy have come up in those discussions with head teachers and how they might use this money. The evidence to the committee is, of course, concerning as everyone has acknowledged and the Scottish Government knows that there is room for improvement. The evidence in the committee highlights inconsistencies with working practices between different establishments and, as mentioned, in the analysis of initial teacher education courses found variations in the time-spent and key components of the curriculum with the widest variation in the crucial area of literacy. I do not really have time. Sorry. I do not think that anyone would disagree that education programmes need to be of the highest quality in all the key areas including literacy, numeracy, health and wellbeing to enable quality teachers. One example that was heard was the additional support needs. It was covered well in one university establishment but not in another. One newly qualified teacher from my constituency spoke to saying that there were expectations of students from different universities and she felt that courses should be more standardised to try and address this. She also expressed concern for the length of the postgraduate course. She stated that in her words it was far too much to cram in a year and it was the most stressful year of her life. She felt that more time and literacy and numeracy would have been beneficial and she was only given theoretical lessons on behaviour management and ASN but no contextualisation to this and that is something that I think Mr Johnson will and Jenny Gilruth and with one in four children in schools having ASN trainees should be well prepared and the same teacher has spoke to and went on to say that a probation year did help fill those gaps and it was also the option of continuing professional development and I think that she felt that perhaps that being a bit longer would have been beneficial but of course again mentioned I think that it goes without saying that the financial implications there was also a lot of praise in terms of the teacher that I was talking about there and another one that spoke to in terms of the Scottish Government being able to pay for their postgrad they wouldn't have been able to undertake the course without that tuition fees being met and I think that that's something that's worth mentioning and I also support the Government amendment relating to the work of local authorities to make sure that teachers feel able to teach literacy and numeracy they should be encouraged to be inventive in how they go about this and just a very quick example Cobra Chai in my constituency held a literacy festival fairly recently the Deputy First Minister attended that it was a big success and I think that schools must be given the scope and permission to do this more often all the children and teachers were all involved in it and I think that it's our job as MSPs to encourage and promote that when we go out as well I think that it really is to work together to get the best Thanks very much Ross Greer to be followed by Tavish Scott Over the last few months the education committee has held sessions on teacher training and on wider issues which it's related to namely additional support needs and personal and social education the evidence presented to us was quite stark it can't be ignored and in many cases where young people with an identified additional support need are reported it starts with issues in initial teacher education we've heard some infamous examples how one member staff was told to watch the Big Bang Theory to learn about Asperger's syndrome now that was a single incident but it was unfortunately not entirely unique teachers both fully qualified and in training are telling us that they do not have the training and resources needed to properly support young people with additional support needs they've told us where the problems are where the weak links in the education system lie we can all hear what they're asking for and I have to say it's not a governance review teacher training courses at universities vary greatly when it comes to additional support needs sometimes it's even optional now I recognise as other members have said it's not our role to tell universities to instruct them what students should not be in their courses but that doesn't leave us entirely powerless ASN training is heavily reliant on cascade learning where trainees learn from observing teachers in the classroom it should be of little surprise therefore that this has resulted in somewhat of a postcode lottery if you're fortunate enough to do your placement with a teacher who has both the time and the experience then great but for many trainee teachers that's not the case one told us clearly the current cascade model of skills transmission is inadequate and that and I quote them I believe this to be the direct result of budget saving cuts now it's not difficult to see why since 2010 we've lost one in seven additional support needs teachers since 2007 we're all well used by now to the statistic that over 4,000 teachers have gone the result of that and the evidence that we received is that many trainee teachers just do not receive the support they need from their mentors and to be clear these trainees are not blaming the teachers that they were placed with they recognise the unsustainable work code but the issue of teacher work code today is having a direct impact on the quality of training for the next generation of teachers the experience does not only affect additional support needs but in this area its effects are felt particularly the education committee's called for more coordination between education authorities to ensure consistency in design and delivery we also called for a review into how funding limitations have impacted on the number of specialist trained additional support needs teachers and assistants now with one in four pupils now being identified with an additional support need and many more who have them but have not yet been identified all teachers must have a baseline of experience drawn from both theory and practical elements of their course now obviously the support required will be very greatly depending on the condition from a little bit of extra time with the teacher to high intensity support and a requirement for specialist staff we shouldn't and we do not expect every teacher to have comprehensive knowledge of every kind of additional support need but that baseline is essential initial teacher education particularly postgraduate courses is already crammed full of essential topics we can't expect every teacher to have absolutely every element of training but yet as we heard this morning with that clear baseline they will at least know where to start and with access to the proper support and high quality training opportunities throughout their career teachers can continue to develop their skills as needed it is both more consistent high quality training and adequate resources which teachers need thank you very much Mr Beir Tavish Scott to be followed by Liam Kerr thank you very much the essence of the evidence that has been given to the education committee in the last two weeks around teacher education and we were reminded today to call it teacher education not teacher training has been around preparing teachers for an unknown world and I can agree broadly with many of the remarks that have been made by colleagues across the chamber and including by the cabinet secretary but the context today I thought was given by Jane Peckham from the NSUWT who explained why we were where we were in terms of the reason as to why people are being put off teaching 75% of her members are thinking of leaving their current post and some of that relates to promoted post and the lack of an ability to go through the profession but 62% and this was the really worrying statistic 62% of considering leaving the teaching profession altogether now in context she represents 15% of Scotland's teachers it's only fair to point that out the why is the important question here though the answer to the why was that workload as she put it to the committee today has increased not fallen she cited the example of removing the national 5 unit assessments the right thing to do but it was done so late in the year and the complexity of what's now happening in classrooms is very clear to parents never mind teachers and pupils as well she also cited as have others in the chamber this afternoon the changes to CFE and the on-going issue of curriculum for excellence and the Northern Alliance is submission to the committee in which they go through a number of issues that are creating the challenges in those schools from my constituency south and across the Highlands and Islands including in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire they cited CFE in this sense considering one of the major elements of CFE was to declutter the system we have actually recluttered it and then added some more to it and this has had a significant effect on the perception of teaching among those who may have considered it as a viable career option now that's I think an important observation about why there is concern that has we have been through in this chamber many times already and the need, and the cabinet secretary said this the need to tackle the bureaucracy in the system and need to keep on working on that and I want to make very briefly that much of this and indeed the cabinet secretary's answer to me earlier in this debate cements this for me is the need for a change in the central structure of education in Scotland so that the responsibilities for where education in Scotland sit at the moment sit with the cabinet secretary and not in some external organisation that best made that point best made I thought by Walter Humes the honorary professor at University of Stirling who said the other day classroom teachers voices need to be conveyed more directly to government not filtered through agencies such as Education Scotland and the SQA and that seems a powerful argument in the context of teacher training two final points, Presiding Officer the first is on workforce planning the representative today from Moray Council who indeed is the director of education made a very strong argument about the regional approach the work with the UHI the work with Aberdeen's institutions as well in terms of what he called smarter mapping needs in other words how to recruit locally for local teaching need that appears to me to be a strong argument and one that the cabinet secretary would be well placed to take forward and the final point Presiding Officer is on resources now John Lamont rightly cited that as did Ross Greer but what came through the evidence clear as mustard today was that cutbacks in for example classroom assistants have an enormous impact as we all know parents to deal with ASN that Ross Greer has been citing just now and in other areas in the classroom itself and that is having an impact in how people perceive a career in teaching and what we must do to change that and to ensure that teachers truly are the future of Scotland Thank you Mr Scott Liam Kerr to be followed by John Mason Liam Kerr I declare an interest in that my wife is an additional support needs teacher and like Ross Greer I felt that one of the most concerning issues coming from the education and skills committee was the evidence presented both by the panel and the consultation respondents to suggest that there is a significant lack of training with regards to additional support needs the record shows that one in four children in schools in Scotland identify as having such needs yet according to the panel teachers received quote no specific training on autism dyslexia or dyspraxia and were not prepared in the slightest on how to deal with children requiring further assistance in the classroom The committee heard that in most degree programmes ASN courses were treated as electives that is to say not compulsory there are something people choose to do if it interests them Now it wouldn't be so bad if there were bespoke specialist ASN teachers to ease the pressures on those that aren't such specialists but between 2010 and 2015 such specialist numbers fell by 13% and dropped in 22 out of Scotland by 23 local authorities ASN teachers have indispensable skills and experience with which they play a crucial role in helping pupils to achieve their potential and overcome learning challenges We do not have enough trainee teachers in Scotland coming through with this experience and submissions from teachers to the committee show that those graduating are simply not receiving the encouragement, support and practical training required to adequately teach pupils with such needs and this is real people, real pupils Just last week a constituent told me of her grave concerns over the lack of additional support her autistic son was receiving. She said that my son is being abandoned to the ideological commitment to inclusion He is bright. He just got the highest score in a mass test in the whole year but spends at least four periods a day without support and without education which has meant a whole year wasted getting no education and hardly any socialisation Another who contributed to the study and has direct experience said it's very upsetting to see how many such children are being disadvantaged from not being properly educated and made desperately unhappy to the point of developing serious mental health problems and another, mainstream doesn't suit but as the clinical psychologist said there is nothing for kids that are bright but have complex needs and that point about inclusion is interesting I note a recent report concluded quote, the policy of an inclusive education for children with additional support needs is not functioning properly in many local authority areas due to a lack of support for these children but what concerns me as well is we hear much about what will happen going forward Cabinet secretary is on record saying the figures spoken about by others in this debate were simply not good enough and showed that education reforms were now imperative why has it taken this long and only now these results to make it imperative the children are the ones that are really losing out here and they cannot afford to wait until the next Parliament for things to get better this is their future and it's time this Government started focusing on Scotland's priorities instead of their own not one of the Government speakers today has said and perhaps the Government will address this in closing has said to the teachers who have been sent less equipped into our schools parents despairing at preventable outcomes and most of all to the children who have been failed by this Government's decisions and governance over the last 10 years one simple word sorry and that is shameful thank you John Mason to be followed by our closing speeches John Mason I am not on the education committee but I certainly am very happy to take part in today's debate on education as a whole and our education system in very high regard I go into schools during my 20 years or so as an elected member and we've had schools here at Parliament and councils at various places that have met them and I have to say how impressed I am when I see young people nowadays who are much more confident and have a much healthier relationship with their teachers than when I was at school I also see enthusiastic and very capable teachers when I meet up with them at the time I was at school many of us lived in fear of our teachers and were regularly belted for various offences we could certainly spell well as a result and we knew the difference between gerons and gerundives but whether we turned out to be complete human beings I am not quite so sure at that time also presenters in the BBC at that point spoke and received pronunciation and regional accents were certainly not allowed I think we deliberately moved away from that approach to education and deliberately decided we wanted more rounded individuals we say we want confident individuals successful learners responsible citizens effective contributors and I'm not sure that that was the case 50 years ago when I was at school then it did seem to be somewhat over emphasised on the successful learners and yes I do squirm a bit when I hear someone saying I have went to the football game but does it actually matter if that person is a good engineer with the potential to set up a successful business now please don't think I'm suggesting that literacy and numeracy are not important they are but I'm suggesting that we as a society are wanting rounded individuals and we need to be careful because we may not be comparing like with like I think the government is accepting the main thrust of the conservative motion today and there is room for improvement in teacher training, in literacy numeracy and the other topics flowing from that but I think we also need to be realistic what we expect our schools to do workload has been mentioned and we expect our schools to deal with a variety of background problems with our children be that alcohol or drug abuse poor diet, sufficient exercise awareness of politics and parliament the environment, sectarianism and the list goes on individual teachers may have gone into these issues in the past but we expect a lot more nowadays from our teachers and schools just now in the economy committee we're looking at the gender pay gap and how do we encourage more girls to move into traditionally male areas of employment like STEM and so on oh well let's get the schools to do that as well now I could mention other things but I will run out of time but I mentioned to IT last week to the cabinet secretary and he said that perhaps the use of young people and I believe Scotland is now leading with about two hours per day that young people are spending on phones or tablets or whatever it could be an impact on literacy when I was younger we'd read a lot of books and that's where I got most of my ability I suppose with words and reading and writing that is clearly not happening so much these days and I like counting things I prefer numbers to words numbers are definite but surely when it comes to educating our young people we should not only value what we can measure it cannot just be about the number of exam passes in the boxes ticked it should be about value added to each life where did they start from what has the school added that is harder to measure but I think it is really important thank you thank you Mr Mason thank you I want to start by joining Johann Lamont in welcoming the more measured tone of the debate today perhaps than some of our education debates certainly I think more measured than the rather fraught fish fight which by all accounts preceded preceded this education debate and I think Johann Lamont is right that some of that is because our debate really has been set off by not for the first time some good work by the education committee in identifying a particular problem and in fairness work which has also been undertaken by the GTCS and indeed the Scottish Government so I think it's important that we've had albeit a short chance to discuss some of those issues around teacher training which are being considered and Mr Swinney is right I think that this involves a number of different people and bodies and not just the Government a lot of contributions have focused on literacy and numeracy and the capacity and preparation of teachers to teach in those areas and that's not surprising I suppose given the recent poor results in literacy and numeracy which Murdo Fraser for example certainly didn't resist revisiting on this occasion but others have made the important point is not just about literacy and numeracy, Liam Kerr and Ross Greer for example referred to the need for better training for teachers in general in supporting pupils with additional support needs and like Mr Scott I'd like to acknowledge the work that NESUWT have done on this as well recognising that as we have had fewer additional support needs specialists in schools the obligation to carry out the work better falls right across the spectrum of all teachers in fairness to the Scottish Government that's something which isn't new and I can recall and I've spoken about this before in my early days of teaching at Gracemount when we also taught pupils from Cameschool for the partially sighted that was something that I did really with no preparation in teacher training at all but you know that was just as long ago I do think that we should have improved since then another area which hasn't been spoken about is the lack of confidence amongst primary teachers in teaching science and that's important for our economic future too but I want to take just a few minutes to refer to our own amendment which for the avoidance of doubt I will move because I think Mr Johnson perhaps didn't and that is the need for more training in working with pupils who have the particular challenges of being looked after or living with adoptive families and although people might think that's a relatively small number of pupils they do face particular challenges especially around attachment and they are very much at the wrong end of the attainment gap that we talk about so often I raised this because of an adoption UK project in my constituency in East Lothian a grassroots project started by an adoptive parent and adoption UK volunteer the attachment ambassador programme which in a single cluster has recruited in each school an attachment ambassador who have significantly improved the educational experience for looked after children and those living with adoptive families that is something which I think is more of but one of the problems the project identified was the lack of training and initial teacher training for teachers dealing with those pupils in closing I want to agree with Jenny Gilruth because I think she made a very important point that initial teacher training isn't just about how good people are at carrying out their job it's also about the attractiveness and the status replicements from when I was in teacher training but the thing I remember more than anything else was a particularly inspirational contribution made by an EIS activist a man called Alex Wood whose politics went in my view slightly wrong later in life but who became a very well regarded head teacher and I have never forgotten the way in which he described why this was a profession which was so worthwhile I think we certainly need to do the work that we've all talked about in the future so that we can do exactly that for more people Teachers play a critical role in our society and it's vital that they receive the training that allows them to enter the classroom with confidence and this is especially true in respect of the fundamental skills literacy and numeracy which has been mentioned a great deal in this debate and for that reason the Government is pleased to be able to support Liz Smith's motion and indeed the amendment by Ian Gray this afternoon the Government published the content analysis of initial teacher education today and we've taken that work forward as part of the national improvement framework and I hope this aids the education and skills committee in their current inquiry our national improvement framework with its focus on teacher professionalism is helping to shine a light on this particular issue because like Liz Smith and others in the chamber I've been very concerned with some of the evidence submitted to the committee and I welcome any recommendations it might make to ensure teacher education programmes effectively prepare the students to become successful teachers but we must also remember that there are a thousand of excellent teachers in Scotland who are passionate about their job and passionate about helping children and young people achieve and if we want to attract the most talented graduates the best of the best as Jenny Gilruth mentioned into this profession we need to talk about teaching as a challenging but a hugely rewarding one and I'm sure this is something the committee is indeed well aware of so we must and we always will be mindful of the concerns raised by the teachers and students but I would remind the chamber of the statistics that the Deputy First Minister raised in his opening remarks when he spoke about 64 per cent of respondents to an evaluation of teaching Scotland's future showing that they felt that their initial teacher education was either effective or very effective in preparing them for their first post as a teacher so while we must indeed express concern my view is that we have much to do to celebrate and have a solid core from which to work and indeed to improve teaching in Scotland is a graduate level profession degrees are offered by some of the best universities in the UK and indeed the world and we continue to invest in a teacher induction scheme which allows teachers to continue their education teaching as a career is underpinned by a set of nationally agreed professional standards as emphasised key skills and the values that all practitioners should have and when discussing student teachers I would also like to remind members that newly qualified teachers are just that they are newly qualified initial teacher education should prepare teachers for the classroom but it is only the start of what should be a career of reflection and further learning and we need to be ready to support new teachers to build their skills and grow a number of the contributions today talked about placements and the importance of good quality placements Liz Smith, Daniel Johnson and Jenny Gilruth all responding to that challenge and the Government takes this very seriously and we know that there is a need for high quality placements Fundamentally there is a responsibility on local authorities, on schools and experienced teachers to take this forward the GTC is reviewing the operation of the student placement system and that's already shown improvements moving to an opt out system all schools will be expected to take students and while there are inevitably still issues within the system that must and will be addressed the system did last year secure 18,000 placements so we know that the system can work can provide good quality placements but there is so much more to do and it's something that the Government is already taking action on and encouraging others to do so Fulton MacGregor mentioned the content analysis of the initial teacher education which the Government did publish today and it is essential that literacy and numeracy is taught widely and the variations within that analysis is very concerning the evidence which the Government commissioned as part of our national improvement framework plays very much into our development of the initial teacher training going forward and we will be discussing the findings with the GTC and with universities Further work is due within the next few months to gather views on probationary teachers to ensure that their experience together with the view of their managers ensures a preparedness for teacher and the Scottish Government has commissioned the GTC to work with universities on a resets project to develop the means to ensure quality within initial teacher education We also had a great deal of discussion around the content of initial teacher training and we need to look very carefully at what is taught within that. All teachers must meet the standards for registration before taking up a post and the standards are currently being reviewed by the GTCS unrightly so. That's an opportunity to change the content of ITE and sets a new baseline for going forward. The committee will feed very much into that debate and to some of the challenges that the members have raised. A number of contributions also talked about additional support. Ross Greer and Liam Kerr, for example, has been taken very seriously as that part of the work as we continue the review of professional standards. In conclusion, the motion today and the work of the committee and the analysis that the Scottish Government published is shining in a light on a very important area. I'm happy to support the motion in the name of Liz Smith as we work forward with our universities and the General Teaching Council to ensure that teachers are confident in the classroom. Thank you minister and I call on Ross Thompson to conclude the debate. Ross Thompson Everyone in the teaching profession should be under no illusion as to the value we attach to the profession, not simply for young people but for the country as a whole. It's difficult to put into words our gratitude to the hard-working and dedicated teachers working right across Scotland. From the submissions that I've heard both in committee and in the chamber today, it has become abundantly clear that the content and quality of teacher training programmes in Scotland is failing our teachers and trainees. The message coming from trainee teachers and their experience entering the profession should concern us all. We have heard trainee teachers express the need to go back to basics because they don't have sufficient skills enumerously to teach 11-year-olds to a reasonable standard. What's more, the balance between learning abstract theory and putting that knowledge into practice in the classroom appears to be disproportionately weighted towards the former. We've heard that there is across a range of training programmes a shocking lack of ASN training. One statement from a former trainee teacher which really struck me at committee is, and I quote, We had all these wonderful theories thrown at us but there was no contextualisation no specific training on autism dyslexia or dyspraxia. There was absolutely nothing. We were told that we would probably come across two or three children in our class with additional support needs but such needs are not included in the course unless you elect to study a professional specialism such as autism, additional support needs or dyslexia. Presiding Officer, when approximately 25% of the school population has additional support needs it's nothing short of absurd that our trainee teachers are not mandated to study in some form the provision of ASN training. There is an evident need for a rigorous analysis into this particular issue and I would urge the Scottish Government to look into this with a matter of urgency. Turning to the contributions made in debate the cabinet secretary in his opening spoke about the actions he's taken to address workloads but I think rightly as Tavish Scott pointed out in his own contribution that evidence from Jane Peckham of Nazareth this morning was very clear that in recent times bureaucracy and workload has increased but 62% of teachers surveyed said that they would leave the profession because of workload. Daniel Johnson outlined inconsistencies and problems of placements as well as the desire from trainees to have a greater focus on practical skills as there's too much of a focus on theory with many trainees feeling in their own words ill equipped going into the classroom. My colleague Murdo Fraser spoke about that lack of focus on literacy and numeracy and the limited time that's spent on ASN. He's absolutely right that we cannot expect our teachers to pass on the necessary skills to our young people if they do not possess them themselves and it is time for the Scottish Government to up its game. Johann Lamont in a very good speech in a terrific contribution made an important point that again education is being debated in this place but only in opposition time despite this being the Government's defining priority. Further, Johann Lamont highlighted the clear need from committee evidence to again refocus on literacy and numeracy. Ross Greer is correct that committee evidence cannot be ignored that the training and resources being put in place to support pupils with ASN is just not there. He also rightly highlighted that there can be a postcode lottery with student placements as well as the support they receive. My colleague Liam Kerr further expanded on this and the real concerns that teachers have about being ill-equipped to deal with pupils with additional support needs. Tavis Scott highlighted the increasing burden of workload on teachers and that action is needed to address it as well as reform of the structures of education Scotland. At the period of training to enter profession should be one of learning, inspiration, hope and optimism. Trainee teachers should be brimming with enthusiasm about the opportunities ahead of them to mould young minds and prepare our children and young people to ensure that lies ahead of them. They should be dreaming about the impact that they can make in the profession and, above all, they should have the tools to make those dreams a reality, and yet they do not. What we see instead is mass frustration and, in some cases, even anger. Presiding Officer, it's time for the Scottish Government to stop lurching from crisis to crisis on education. It's time for urgent and fundamental reform to improve the quality, content of teacher trading. The teachers have spoken and the Scottish Government must listen. Thank you, Mr Thomson. Point of order, Stewart Stevenson. I wish to raise a point of order under rule 7.3, order in chamber. At 1548 today, Douglas Ross MSP said in his speech, and I quote, in my own area of Murray, we came closer than any part of Scotland to voting leave. Much of that vote came from the coastal communities, from Burkhead to Cullin, and everything in between. I note that the code of conduct for MSPs at 8.1.4 states, and MSPs must not deal with a constituency issue outwith the member's constituency or region, unless by prior agreement. I'd like to indicate to you that it's the constituency MSP for Cullin and many other coastal communities, but not quite as far as Burkhead. I have not been approached for an agreement from Douglas Ross that he can raise a constituency issue relating to Cullin and other communities in my constituency. That area being in north-east region, not the Highland region, which Mr Ross represents. Furthermore, at 8.1.5, it states that regional MSPs have a responsibility to all those in the region for which they were elected. It's important, therefore, that they recognise and therefore must work in more than two constituencies in their region. It may be that I've missed any reference by Douglas Ross to work in any constituency beyond Richard Lochhead's Murray. At 8.2.2, regional members must not exercise particular interest in only part of the region for which they were elected. Finally, at 8.4.1, any complaint against a member should in the first instance be made to the Presiding Officer. I note that my potential actions are covered by 9.1.2, which states that members must not disclose, communicate or discuss any complaint or intention to make a complaint with members of the press or other media. I'm only making it to members here. Would the Presiding Officer advise if he would see a letter of apology from Douglas Ross to me and the regional members who represent Cullen, which suffies to close this matter? Finally, perhaps in addition advise Mr Ross that it would be inappropriate to make any media statement that suggests that he represents communities in my constituency in the light of his comments and participation in the fisheries debate today? I thank Mr Stevenson for his advance notice, although I would encourage Mr Stevenson and all members to keep matters that are best kept on the election trail and not bring them to this chamber. I am sure that all members know not to misrepresent themselves. However, Mr Stevenson did draw attention to the fact that members must not disclose, communicate or discuss any complaint or make a complaint to or with members of the press or other media. I encourage Mr Stevenson to follow that example himself. Can we now point of order? Sandra White A very small point of order. Mr Stevenson is absolutely correct. It's a code of conduct of this Parliament. It's not to do with electioneering. It's a code of conduct of this Parliament. I want clarification on that. Mr Stevenson said that he would not make a complaint, so there is no matter for me to rule on whatsoever. I encourage all members that it does not do us any favours to complain about each other in this chamber. It reflects badly on the whole chamber. Keep matters on the election trail. That brings us to the end of that debate. The next item of business is consideration of business motion 5637 in the name of Joe Fitzpatrick on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau setting out a business programme. I would ask any member who wishes to speak against the motion to press their request to speak at a now. I call on Joe Fitzpatrick to move motion 5637. No member has asked to speak against the motion. Therefore, the question is that motion 5637 in the name of Joe Fitzpatrick be agreed. Are we all agreed? Thank you. The next item of business is consideration of business motion 5638 in the name of Joe Fitzpatrick on behalf of the Bureau setting out a timetable on stage 2 of the railway policing bill. I would ask any member who wishes to speak against the motion to press their request to speak at a now. I call on Joe Fitzpatrick to move the motion. No member has asked to speak against the motion. Therefore, the question is that motion 5638 be agreed. Are we all agreed? The next item of business I will ask Joe Fitzpatrick to move motions 5640 and 5641 on the designation of lead committees. Move together. Thank you very much. There are eight questions to be put as a result of today's business. The first question is the amendment 5603.3 in the name of Fergus Ewing who seeks to amend motion 5603 in the name of Peter Chapman on fisheries be agreed. Are we all agreed? We're not agreed. We'll have a division and members may cast their votes now. The result of the vote on amendment 5603.3 in the name of Fergus Ewing is yes, 83, no, 27. There was one abstention. The amendment is therefore agreed. The next question is the amendment 5603.2 in the name of Rhoda Grant who seeks to amend the motion in the name of Peter Chapman be agreed. Are we all agreed? We're not agreed. We'll move to division and members may cast their votes now. The result of the vote on amendment 5603.2 in the name of Rhoda Grant is yes, 83, no, 27. There was one abstention. The amendment is therefore agreed. The next question is that motion 5603 in the name of Peter Chapman as amended on fisheries be agreed. Are we all agreed? We're not agreed. We'll move to division and members may cast their votes now. The result of the vote on motion 5603 in the name of Peter Chapman as amended is yes, 83, no, 27. There was one abstention. The motion as amended is therefore agreed. The next question is the amendment 5595.2 in the name of John Swinney who seeks to amend the motion 5595 in the name of Liz Smith on teacher training programme be agreed. Are we all agreed? We're agreed. The next question is the amendment 5595.1 in the name of Ian Gray who seeks to amend the motion in the name of Liz Smith be agreed. Are we all agreed? We're agreed. The next question is that motion 5595 in the name of Liz Smith as amended on teacher training programme be agreed. Are we all agreed? We're agreed. The next question is the motion 5640 in the name of Joffice Patrick on designation of a Leed Committee be agreed. Are we all agreed? We're agreed. The final question is that motion 5641 in the name of Joffice Patrick on designation of a Leed Committee be agreed. gan mwy o ddyfodol, Mr Lockhead? Further to the point of order, raised by my colleague Stuart Stevenson in relation to Douglas Ross' contribution to the fisheries debate, on the area that he represents as the Murray area, he mentioned communities that have scheduled to Scottish parliamentary regions. Is it not therefore deserved to bring guidance back to the chamber as to how members should properly describe themselves in this chamber as to the areas that are democratically i wneud content i gynhyrch i fynd i gweithretou'r wiredlir...�au eich eich ysgy examples. Tfigure, ar gwyfnir y cael matef an venues, ond chi wedi gyn opportunitiesurw i mi wneud eich c condensedoedd, yn mynd i chi'n prefusio ar y cymuned fiber i'r priforysau mewn i ddechel nhw i castlau bawb i ni i ddechel nhw i ddechel nhw i wneud eich cendangodau ac yn ddechel nhw i d innovations am ddod o'i ddim yn ei ddydigol i'r ddod o'r cymedd a i ddiddorol i'r ddod o'i ddiddor i'r ddiddor i'r ddiddor i'ch cymedd i ni, i ddiddorol i ddiddor o'i ddiddor i'n ddiddor i'r ddiddor i'r ddiddor i ddiddor i ddiddor maen nhw. Felly, ddau'r maen nhw wedi'i gweld i'r ystafell o'r campaign-elach. Fe'r ddweud o'r berthynas uchydigau. Felly, rwy'n cael ei ddweud o'r cyflasaf ymrwynt o bwrn ffordd yng Nghymru, a'r ddau i ddweud o'r cyflasaf ymrwynt.