 the state of clean energy. I'm your host, Mitch Ewan, today and I'm calling you from the beautiful, lovely, Kenioa Bay overlooking the Marine Corps base and I apologize in advance. I have a lot of C-17s, F-14s, F-18s, ospreys, and helicopters flying overhead all the time so there may be some noise in the background. So I'm very delighted to have our special guest today, Peter Sternleit and Noe Kalipi from Sustainable Energy Hawaii. Sustainable Energy Hawaii is a new organization. They quite, I don't know if you have your website up yet, but on the Big Island and it's a, I'm not going to tell them what it is because that's what you're here for. You're going to tell us all about Sustainable Energy Hawaii. It's another project. I think did Richard Haw initiate it? Yes. He did. Great. So our friend Richard who appears on the show frequently initiated this. So Peter, take it away. Mitch. Tell us about Sustainable Energy Hawaii. So as you said this originated or was inspired by Richard Haw and he and I had been talking for you know many years about energy. Both of us have a, you know, have a personal interest in energy, the state of affairs as it is now with you know, peaking resource supplies and climate change and the fact that there are mandates being made all around the world to produce energy sustainably. One of the things that we've discovered over time that happens as we approach Sustainable Energy is people out in we'll call it the real world find themselves spending, paying a lot more. So one of our concerns is that we independently keep an eye on the the route that that the public private partnerships are taking to really to really kind of ensure that that we're taking the best route to keep things affordable. Right. So would you can knowing would you characterize that then as an educational organization and how are you how are you going to actually reach out? Well, I think you know we we originally started this is actually an older idea of Richards. I mean we a number of us were something called the Big Island Community Coalition that is an ad hoc group of community members that had been working together really focusing on food security and energy security and making sure that whatever changes happened that it was affordable and efficient and effective for everyone. So Richard always talks about looking out for the rubber slip of folks and that really was our focus, right? With that being said, you know, now that we're really looking at energy, food systems is still a big part of it, but energy in particular, we decided to rebrand the organization as Sustainable Energy Hawaii. We still serve the role that we kind of started but want to build out and scale out really serving as a catalyst and convener. So much more than quote, education, because sometimes when you say education, it kind of rubs people the wrong way, really kind of creating the opportunities to bring people together to kind of talk story and make sure that whatever we're doing as an island with sustainability, we're also looking at how does it affect everyone? How do we ensure that there's access to all of these benefits for everyone, not just those who can afford it? And are we really evaluating unintended consequences and making sure that we're doing things to support thriving economies, I mean, thriving community in the future, as well as making sure that everyone can come along. So it's really more than education. It's much more catalyst and convener, and that kind of role driving from grassroots, and then also bridging with businesses, innovation, etc. So it's a kind of neat space to be in. Okay. So Peter, what kind of energy resources, sustainable energy resources are we talking about on the big island? And kind of the issues associated, you guys can split that up? Or what are the kinds of issues that kind of rise up to the surface? Yeah, the island of Hawaii is really kind of a, I mean, I don't want to be to, you know, identify myself as an old hippie, but it's, it's kind of very, very lucky in the sense that we have access to pretty much every naturally occurring renewable source of energy. We have, we have access to both onshore and offshore wind. We have access to solar. We have access to tidal. We even have access to geothermal, which is an extremely rare resource that to be found around the world. So the opportunities are really quite broad on this island. And we're really looking at all of them. What we want to do is make the right choice. And again, the metric is really going to be how does it affect the people who end up, who are the consumers, which are businesses and, and, and individual consumers? So no, wait, what kinds of things? Let me phrase it have rubbed people the wrong way on the big island. For example, I'm very familiar, or I don't want to assume anything, but I'm fairly familiar with the geothermal law issues there. So what are the things that we can do to make it better? Like, so we're not always fighting with each other and that we're working for the common good. So how do we do that? I mean, how can we do a better job? I think there's a couple of things. One is, I think you acknowledge, first of all, all of the past issues, and you create the opportunities for people to express themselves to I think you always have to err on the side of inclusivity. Right? Let's make it transparent. Let's let's let's invite everybody to the table and let's listen and let's create that connection before we get into everybody sharing what their ideas are. Right? What do we share together? And let's identify our common interests. Before we get to how we solve the problem, right? We got to trust each other. We have to agree that we all see the problem, you know, understand how we all see the challenges that we face as a community, understand what all of our strengths are as a community. And then we get to the nitty gritty of what are the options that we can be evaluating. So it's really a different way of coming together. But I really think it's very important given the history of our of our island and the human consciousness we're seeing globally now, with with addressing everything that we really take the time to acknowledge everyone's right to have their opinions and then create that welcoming space and and making it possible for people to agree to disagree and to be able to find where there's commonality so that we can then build the trust and then move in together collectively, but we have to go step by step. So Peter, is there is there hope here? I mean, have we got such a history that people are totally entrenched? And like there's no wiggle room or there's no room for flexibility? Or do you think this kind of a can we overcome this kind of entrenchment? And what kinds of things can we, you know, what's like, what's in it for me? Like is probably maybe one of the questions we have to answer for them? Like, why would I right want to have this big plant in my backyard? So is there hope here? Well, if I if I didn't think there was hope, I wouldn't be doing this. So um, and and yes, there are there are people who are going to we're going to be entrenched. That's just that's in a sense, that's human nature. We we have firmly held beliefs and change is hard for people. And I think understanding that is really an important thing that you know, and the question about what's in it for me, I live here. So what's in it for you is the same thing that's in it for me. And so I think sometimes the entrenched positions come from inaccurate information. And that's where it gets really tricky, because you can't just say your information is bad, or you're wrong, or or something like that. It's it's a matter of, like, for instance, with the with the situation of energy, I mean, what is energy, energy? Literally, I mean, Einstein said, energy is everything. It is, it's what it's what moves you, your body, it's it, you know, there's stored sunlight in the food we eat. And it literally is the ability to do work. And so I think a fundamental regarding energy, I think it's really important to kind of almost start at the beginning to establish an understanding of what energy is. It isn't a plant that's next to my house. It's something else. And maybe there's ways to do this without putting a plant next to your house. I mean, we have that luxury on on the Big Island, because we have so much open space. But for instance, on other islands, that's going to be really tough. So just does your organization only address the Big Island? Are you looking at yourself as a Hawaii wide organization? Or is it too early to even comment on that? Was was that addressed to me? Well, yes, we'll go with you. Seems how you asked. I was going to say initially, initially, yes, it is, it is, we are, we are thinking locally, at least at the beginning. I've sort of made the analogy that it's, you know, in a situation in an existential crisis like this, it's sort of like what they tell you on an airplane, put your own mask on first. And then you can put the mask on your child or, you know, or help other people. So the answer to that is a broad no, it's not just Hawaii Island, but it is Hawaii Island is definitely our starting place. Right. That was a great answer. So no way. You know, the geothermal is one of the most projects that just generated like so much antagonism. But it was really interesting that when HECO Helico came out with an IRFP for additional 25 megawatts of power, then all of a sudden some of the biggest opponents of geothermal form groups that actually bid on the projects, for example, Mililani Trask went from, you know, going to jail, I guess, she got arrested. Maybe I got that wrong, but to seemingly being supportive of it. And part of that was because I think they were more inclusive. So what's your comment? Did you have any experience with that project? And what do you think about that? I did not have experience with that RFP or that project, but I think that speaks to the point of inclusivity, right? When people understand when people are included and when there's access to the solutions, then everybody can participate. Right. So it's that much more important to make sure that we have widespread access to the opportunities that we're having, the discussions that allow us to get past and through perceptions, right? Explore the diversity of perceptions that allow us to get to the substance of the discussion. So I think that's a classic example of when there's broad understanding at a technical level and the inclusivity and the access to the solutions, what a community can come forth and do. So getting back right down to the nuts and bolts of how do you actually do that? I mean, you know, we can talk high level stuff and all that. Do we have multiple potluck dinners like we have up at Pu'uawa Ranch where we sit around the table just talk story, brainstorm, do mind mapping and just let everybody get their opinion in and then just try and just work together. How is that going to work? This is for nobody. Yeah, it depends on the situation. It depends on the part of the project, right? The good thing about Big Island Community Coalition and now Sustainable Energy of Hawaii is that we have a broad network of individuals and we live in an island. Everybody's either related or knows each other, right? So you can talk story. If you keep it at the talk story level just like how we're doing right now, we can share, right? We can look at that. And then we build up there. So given, first of all, it's a broad network of individuals talking about an issue, right? And then it's the convening, like then depending on the part of the district, depending on which technology we're looking at, right? We can bring those who are interested and then we can make it available to everyone to be able to to participate. So it is, it's all of the above Mitch. It's a yes and it's Pu'uawa having their dinners. It's us having our family discussions. It's potentially us doing small YouTube videos that allow you to facilitate yourself where I say, you know, we can explain the issue and say press pause and go talk with your family about this and fill out this Google form so that we can collect your information in your monologue and then let's share that widely on a on a website and or on a platform that we can all take a look at how did we dive deep and where are the common themes? Like I think there's multiple ways to be able to do it, but it depends. Like if we're talking about something like building a hydrogen economy on on Hawaii Island, then we look at, right? Then we look at what are the what are the low hanging fruit sources of electricity that would allow for us to demonstrate the viability of that, right? And then you would then you would convene around those things. So so I think it's all of the above and it's very fact specific and situation specific as to how we do it. Right. So Peter, you have a background in film, the film industry, as I understand it, like like you're a major for your major player in Hollywood and no, no, no, no, I there everybody's a major player. It's just like everybody that's an actor is, you know, has an has a day job where they're waiting tables. But I did spend a lot of time in that industry. It's it's changed. I was lucky enough to be around for virtually the entirety of it going from film to data. And, you know, it's it was it was a fabulous experience. I love living in a rural community. I do not miss. I do not miss. I miss my family, but I do not miss the main line. Well, how can you put your experience in the film industry, which is really, you know, communications to good use for sustainable energy Hawaii? I mean, where are the opportunities here for you to apply something during knowledge and help us all out? Yeah, well, over, you know, over the the years that I've been here, I've done volunteer video work, some of which I've done for Richard for the University of Hawaii, for Pueo, for the astronomy community here. And I've done I've done some work for the International Moon Base Alliance. But you know, it was just talking about the kind of video communication that we can be doing. There's I think there's a great opportunity within this organization to use multimedia to be able to to further the understanding about what energy is how what roles it plays in our lives. Ask the questions. Do you want to live with this? Do you want to live without this? What are the alternatives? Because one thing for sure is the way we live today cannot continue. It just is not sustainable. And, you know, one of the speaking of sustainability, I mean, being sustainable means that it can go for a really long time. And that does not mean unlimited growth. That means it's essentially stasis, and it's self supporting. It's an ecosystem that that provides opportunity and support for all who live within it. So I think communicating that is something people like video they mean much more than reading. And so I think the opportunity to get that kind of information out there, let people digest it is someplace I can put my focus. That'd be awesome. So no, a question for you is, how do we pay for all of this? You have funding sources and you got like wealthy deep pockets out there that want to support this organization? How are you going to pay for this? Because, you know, to put on really good and get really good information out there, great videos, great marketing materials, takes money. So the answer is sure we have a fundraising plan that we would get to eventually. But the beauty of talking story, the beauty of the network of individuals we have working with us is we don't need a lot of money to get started. We don't need a lot of money to host a potluck. We don't need a lot of money to put a put a video that can go up into YouTube and create a Google forum where we can collect your information. Convening, you know, doesn't this is this is a volunteer organization and network, right? And that's why our role is as a as a catalyst and as a convener as opposed to we want to have a business plan and we want to become the company. That's not what we're trying to do here. We're trying to create the opportunities for those things to occur. What our job is really to keep the grass roots and the and the businesses and keep it be the bridge between everybody and it doesn't take a lot of money to be able to do that. So if you started to reach out yet to some of the community leaders and if you have, have you got a feel for the reception towards sustainable energy Hawaii? We're we're we're early early in the process. So we've had some very early discussions. But we're still moving through that. That's why we don't even have our website up yet, right? I mean, essentially, we're big island community coalition reborn. And there's a bunch of us having individual discussions given the networks that we have in our experience in this area. But as a group, we haven't yet formally begun presenting. Okay. So how about the new political leadership that we're going to be seeing as these elections run out? How do you view the current crop of politicos? I mean, are you see support there or pushback or not that I understand? Why would there be any pushback? But how do you see that developing? I'm assuming this is for me. It's definitely for you. You know, if I think the shared interest we have amongst all of our elected leaders is particularly post COVID is how do we have strong community? How do we build thriving economies, etc. The issues that we're talking about lead to those. So so it's not like we're we're pushing one technology over another. We're saying how can we be sustainable? Given given that there's a level of urgency outside all of our control. And and I don't think there's much of a choice anymore about having to take action in these areas. So, Peter, as one of my pet projects, obviously this in the background hydrogen, and I'm really kind of focused on zero mission buses for the big island. And my my objective is to develop a really, really great bus system that's on time. There's plenty of buses. It's the first choice anybody makes when they want to go from A to B. How can you guys support my project? That's for Peter. Well, first of all, we do support it. And we've we've become aware of of what your goals are. And we absolutely support it. You know, in you know, with boots on the ground, that's certainly something we should explore. I mean, of course, media is is one of them. But that, you know, I mean, that's. Well, but you know, that's yeah, let's offline. Let's let's put our heads together and see where we go with it. Right. So you've both heard about Riley Seydow's transportation services contracting initiative that he took. I think I mean, I'll just give an opinion because I'm allowed to talk here too. So, you know, one of the big issues, you know, is when you launch a huge project like this is who pays? How do they get paid? And up till now, you know, it's been kind of piecemeal. Like if the county has a little bit of budget, well, we'll buy one bus this year, maybe two buses the next year, zero buses like they did for like three years. And that's why the bus system has fallen into disrepair like it has. But transportation services contract is a public private partnership where a private company comes in and buys all the buses. So theoretically, you know, you can buy 65 buses in one shot and it's backed up by the county. So in a way, this really helps, as you say, the River Slipper people. I can't quite pronounce the Slipper, right? But, you know, people have to get to work and they have to commute. And I'm just throwing that out as a kind of a project that kind of is needs to be a sustainable energy Hawaii project. So what do you think about that, Noe? Definitely, I think I think I mean, whether you're asking about the project itself and or the funding mechanism, I think it's a good example of a public private partnership that's looking at how do we make the sustainable and how do we scale it such that everybody can benefit, right? You're meeting a transportation need, you're meeting the infrastructure need, you're meeting the sustained economic need, right? And so then what do we need to create to support that system in place and what can then be spun off because of that demonstration, right? So that's clearly something that those are definitely the kinds of initiatives we'd want to talk about. We'd want to let people know about, you know, so that you could be proud if you're writing that bus, you know. Well, and also we can use that as a venue to promote sustainable energy Hawaii because, you know, it's all going to be run on sustainable energy. And so there's the people, you know, to the taxpayers, basically, and it helps them go to work and helps them go to the store, helps the young kids get to school. I mean, I've heard stories about down in some of the we have these big subdivisions on the Big Island, little kiddos have to walk like I've heard three or four miles, you know. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a long walk. I mean, I go for my evening walk for two hours. I'm knackered. So yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, but you're you're not you're not 10 years old. I wish I was, man. Yeah. But those are exactly the kinds of needs, you know, that we need to be addressing. Those are real needs, right? And so if the projects can address the real needs as you demonstrate why this works, as you demonstrate how innovation happens, as you demonstrate how you it's a spectrum, right, of of of action, you don't just, you know, erase everything and start anew. You got to work within the system that you have, right? And you build strengths, you build trust in it. And and by addressing real needs, that's how we're going to be able to be as inclusive and make sure that everybody sharing in the benefit. Well, I think that's really I'm sorry. I was going to say, I think the point that you made about, you know, the county buying one bus this year versus, you know, versus having the ability, the financial support to to buy 65 buses. So scale is what's what obviously is needed to make it practical for the county for the public. And so being able to bridge that gap between the lab and the marketplace is the real challenge, you know, crossing the chasm as it were. And, you know, so that's that's that's the funding conundrum, because clearly on an economic level, what we want to be able to do is to have local ownership of whatever this is, be at the county or whether it's local local business or whether it's a now I'm blanking on the word. It's when the when the community up something co-op or a co-op. So so I mean, ultimately from the standpoint of the street people, the street businesses, we want local ownership instead of ownership somewhere in Europe. Right. Exactly. OK, well, believe it or not, guys, we've blown through almost 30 minutes and 29 minutes and 56 seconds. So it really goes fast. Just one time, what's what are your quickly? What are your timelines? No way. What's what's what's the schedule here? Well, what we're doing is we're getting everything put together and we're going to start having meetings. So over the next six months, we'll be working to build relationship to share the information and really to co-create this with our community. OK, well, Peter and now we thank you so much for sharing a sustainable energy Hawaii. Obviously, we all have a stake in this and whatever I can do to help, I will come back on the show when you have some additional specific messages or if you even want to make a specific video. Peter, here's your chance to do that. We love doing that kind of stuff. And with that, I hear the hook. There you go. Well, you look at it as a resource, because no, no, no, no, it's definitely a resource. Well, with that, thank you. Thank you so much, Peter. Thank you, Noe. And this is Hawaii, the state of clean energy, saying aloha.