 Hello everyone, this is Steve Zercher. I'm the host of Looking to the East, a twice monthly program that I host where we focus on topics mostly looking at Japan, but also more broadly to Asia. So thank you for tuning in. We're very fortunate today to have one of my favorite people in the world with us. She's the former consul general in Osaka Kobe for the United States. She served in that position for three years, terminating in August of last year. So she's been back in the States for the last year or so. Karen was just a wonderful consul general. I was the vice president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Kansai. So we often were at similar events, presenting, usually Karen presenting before me because of her higher status than my role at the ACCJ. But Karen and I often spoke and Karen's ideas were very similar to my own ideas. Often my speech was completely negated because Karen's presentations of the students or to the business community was very similar. So that's kind of a joke that we share between the two of us. So I'm so happy, Karen, that you can join us. You look wonderful. It looks like your retirement is treating you well. Karen's in California, in La Quinta, California, and you've been there now for about a year or so. It's been about a year. It has been about a year. Thank you for the invitation. Yeah, it's our pleasure. My pleasure indeed. All right. So let's start by talking about, I know my students and people in general, maybe younger people, are interested in a career in diplomacy. Can you talk about how you got interested in working for the State Department? Was it something out of college or did you work in other positions and transition into the State Department? How did you get started on the journey that led to being the Council General in Osaka, Kobe? Thanks. Thanks for the question. Let's see, getting started. I think I would have to say that it started in a little bit of an indirect way. I graduated from university, was looking for an opportunity to work overseas. I knew I was interested in international affairs, and that was one of the degrees I earned at university was in international relations. But I went to the Peace Corps in West Africa. I was a Peace Corps English teacher in a high school that was about, I think, about 400 miles north of the capital of Dakar in Senegal. And taught there for a couple of years, then went at the end of my Peace Corps service, went to the capital to Dakar, and started working for the British Embassy in their culture and information section. And it was as an assistant to the cultural attaché at the British Embassy that I met the Secretary to the US Ambassador who wanted to travel to the UK. And so I was handing out all kinds of travel information. We started talking and she noticed that my accent was not quite British. And we got into a conversation. I talked about my Peace Corps experience and the rest of it. And she invited me to lunch. And at the lunch, she pulled out a brochure and I'll remember forever that the brochure title was Careers in the Foreign Service. And basically pitched the diplomatic service as an opportunity for me. Told me about, you know, the ability to travel overseas, to learn foreign languages, to live in different cultures, and to support the foreign policy of the United States. And I took the brochure home after the lunch and looked through it and really liked the descriptions that I saw about this career and decided that this was what I would try to do. And it wasn't just, you know, a snap my finger and overnight I changed embassies. It was from application to the first time I raised my hand to be sworn in as a US diplomat was about three years of time. And I believe now that our Foreign Service has accelerated and shortened the time that it takes for entry. But this was way back when over 30 years ago. So it was it was a laborious process then. Okay. Yeah, that was this. Wow, that's you must have been highly motivated. The three years is a long period of time to and you have to take a test, right? There's a very difficult. There was a there was a there was a written test initially. And the written test, if you're successful at the written test at that time, you were invited to come to Washington to take the oral examination, which is an all day, which was an all day process. And wow, I by that time, I had decided that I would return to the US. So the the invitation to take the written exam in DC turned out to be an invitation to return to return home. And I moved to the Washington DC area, took the exam, and apparently did very well. But there was more waiting now more paperwork, and more waiting. And so during that time, I was working with a marketing firm in in the in the DC metro area. Okay. Do you if you pass the test and in the exams and so forth, do you go on the waiting list? You go on a waiting list based on your based on based on the relative success that you had in the different categories of specialty. So there's an you can do economic reporting or political reporting. You can do culture and information is a specific area that is management of our facilities is another specific area. So you have a position on all of those waiting lists, but you may be higher on one list and lower on another. So as the classes are formed for new diplomats, they will look at those lists and they'll go down those lists we need, you know, we need another 10 economic reporters. So they'll look at who's who's the highest who the 10 highest people on that list and they'll take they'll invite those people to come and join a class. Okay. So it works that way. So after three years, you joined the State Department and where were you assigned first, I guess probably back to Africa since you had experience here or Well, you would have thought. You would have thought. Yeah. I would have gone straight to Africa. No, my first assignment was Tokyo. You went to Japan initially. I went to Japan initially. Had you requested that Karen or was it? Oh, you did. No, I did request it. Oh, wow. Okay. In the three years that I was working in the Washington DC area, this was the period of, you know, Japan as number one, Japan as unfair trading partner, Japan and the Hondas and American workers smashing the Hondas with mallets and, you know, it was that period. Japan can't say no Japan that can't say no. Oh, yeah, they could finally say no to the U.S. I think that was the whole point of the book. But it was during that period and I was reading so much about this monolith Japan. What I noticed though was that I read very little almost nothing about Japan, the country, its culture, the people. I mean, those weren't the articles that were appearing in the Washington Post and other, you know, major papers. They were all focused on this economic jogger nut that we were trying to figure out as American traders how to manage our relationship with Japan. And so I got curious about the country. So I started reading a little bit on my own and finally decided that if I had an opportunity to go overseas again, I wanted to go to Asia, not specifically wanted to go to Japan. And so when I came into the Foreign Service, they sit you down for a little interview and they've got your background. And so the interviewers looking at my background and said, you know, we don't give our Foreign Service officers much choice in where they go. But if you could choose anywhere in the world that you would like to go, where would it be? And I said, oh, I'd love to go to Japan. And, you know, he looked at my record again and thought, why Japan? And I gave him that explanation I just gave you about not knowing anything about the people. I thought it was distressing that I was working and living in our nation's capital where policy decisions are being made. And that I was learning so little about the Japanese people in that environment where we're making, you know, these momentous decisions about our relationship. And as a consequence, he said, well, if you're really interested in Japan, I've got some people I can introduce you to in the service. And so he started telling me, go look this person up or why don't you write, send that person an email and tell them about your interests. And as it happened, I was basically introducing myself to the Japan community that was in Washington at the department at that time. And so as it turned out, Japan had a position for a new diplomat trainee to occupy for a few years. And I said, oh, there goes my job. I had no more sense than that. You know, it's kind of like, oh, look, they put it on the list for me. And as it turned out, I was successful in getting that first assignment. And it was a dream come true. So Karen, when you arrived in Tokyo, it's the first time you've been there, right? You've personally been there. You've studied about it, but not actually physically lived there. Was it difficult for you to adapt to? I mean, many of the expat community does have issues as they go through the acculturation process. And I guess based on what you're saying, it looks like a duck taking the water. It sounds like you were, you know, maybe personality or properly prepared by the State Department in your own studies to really just hit the ground running in Japan when you landed. I was really curious about Japan. I mean, I had developed this curiosity before the diplomatic service career. But I think that, you know, it was a combination of curiosity leading me to all of this information and all of these people who were also enthusiastic about sharing Japan. And really just, you know, going with an open mind. Now that said, I have to say also in all fairness that, you know, traveling as a member of the U.S. government is not a bad way to see the world. You know, we have an embassy full of resources. And so, you know, unlike a lot of expats, I didn't have to find my own housing. I, you know, had a home provided and all of the utilities already connected. I stood in no long lines at utility companies or whatever we have to do now. Maybe you have to just go down to the convening and register. But whatever it was that had to be done was done on my behalf. So I could focus on work and meeting people and doing the assignment that I had been given. So there's, you know, I have to, I have to also credit the pillow that I was sitting on as I rode into town for clearing a lot of the hurdles out of the way. Yeah, some of the preparations and moving to a new culture. Had you studied Japanese through in preparing? I had. I had some preparation in Washington for the job. And that's the great thing about the diplomatic service is that our language training is built into our assignments. So if you are assigned to a country that has a language that you don't speak, the time to study that language before you go to that country is built into the job assignment. So it might be, it might be a three-year job assignment. But then prior to going, you have a year in Washington studying the language. And you're a full-time language student at our language institute in Arlington, Virginia, but you're also a full-time diplomat. So you're a salaried employee sent to do this preparation in advance of your assignment overseas. And I really liked that about the career as well. Yeah. All right. Well, I know we're going to have to kind of fast forward because you had many years intervening between when you landed in Tokyo. I know you were assigned in other countries and then you came back to Japan. I think you had three, three trips. But the last one, the one that I really want to talk about is as consul general. So, you know, again, as I mentioned in the introduction, I watched you work and you were tireless on behalf of the country, the United States, and promoting the interests of the country. And thank you. Oh, yeah. It's just, it was part of a long line. Alan Greenberg before you was was also the same. Richard, I think is doing the same thing, our current consul general. Excellent. But tell us about the job. How did you get it? I mean, I hear through the, through my buddies and consulate in the embassy that Japan's a tough, tough desk to get. Japan is tough. The word is out. How great it is. Japan is one of the nicest places you can go if you have an interest in Asia and in the Asia Pacific community of nations. Japan is a great, is a great place to kind of perceive what's going on in Northeast Asia and, you know, to jump off and make visits to places in Southeast Asia as well. So, yes, there is a lot of competition for jobs when they open up in Japan. And for these, what we call executive positions, consul general, deputy chief of mission, those the number two in the, in the, in the embassy, those positions are highly bid and there's a special committee that makes a selection for the appointment. So basically you do your best. You, you, you submit a, you submit a form and you explain why you think you are the person for the job. You are interviewed by people and sometimes these are, I mean, these are happening, you know, at three in the morning because of time differences. We're all over the world. And then there's a decision this made and, and then the appointment, you get the notice that you were successful or, you know, that your, your, your bid was not successful at that time. So I was really excited because this would, this was my fourth assignment in Japan and four times. Yes. And I was just, you know, I almost giggled to myself as I was writing my little, you know, pick me, pick me sheet, my essay, thinking that no one in their right mind is going to send me back to Japan for a fourth assignment. So I'm, but I'm going to, I'm going to put my name in the, in the, in the hat anyway. And, and I, you know, got the, got the response back and the announcement that I had been selected for that position. I was thrilled, absolutely thrilled. And, you know, had three years that were really busy. I think we, we, we endeavored to do the best that we could to expand our relationship in Western Japan. Working with the ACCJ especially, you know, to expand the ties with the business community was something that, and then to, you know, connect the business community to our ambassador and the folks in the embassy in Tokyo to see how, you know, the American government can support American business overseas. So it was, it was a great opportunity to travel. Osaka is a big neighborhood. The Kansai region is 15 prefectures. And I'm happy to say I, I, I nearly visited them all. Okay. Yeah, there was this, there was a small issue of a pandemic that slowed me down. That slowed you down. Oh, sure. At the end. But, you know, it was just, it was wonderful meeting people. It was wonderful having the opportunity to see Western Japan. In more detail than I would have as a tourist, certainly. I wouldn't have had a three year tourism excursion in Japan. But if you ever hear of one, I'm looking out for you, Karen, you know that. Please. Don't forget me. Oh, that's not possible. So I take it from the name general that you are the head of the consulate itself. So all the other department, the commercial services and operations and marketing, they all report to you. Is that how it works? We work as a team. They obviously have offices at the embassy that supervise the details of their activities. But in the consulate, we are, we are the team. And for a better description, I can't think of right now, I'm the team leader. And the idea is that we collectively come to an understanding of what our leadership, our ambassador and our country team in Tokyo is trying to accomplish. And, and we look to see where there is complementarity with those goals in our efforts in Western Japan. And then we try to pursue that. Okay. All right. So let's, I know you're no longer officially in the State Department, but I want to spend the last few minutes of this discussion talking about your observations of how the U.S.-Japan relationship is evolving under the new president. You, when you were a consulate general, it was under Republican administration under President Trump for that period of time. And we've gone through this transition starting earlier this year. I'm sure you're paying attention. Do you still have access to State Department information or are you? No, okay. But as a personal citizen, I'm sure you're watching it since you invested four, four trips for four, four, four, four years, four year periods of time. Oh my goodness. All right. Yeah. So what do you think? I think that, you know, the wonderful thing, one of the wonderful things about the U.S.-Japan relationship is that it enjoys bipartisan support in our government. Whether it's a Republican administration or a Democrat administration, the importance of the relationship that we have with Japan and its importance in establishing peace and security throughout the Asia-Pacific region, as well as what we do as a partner with Japan on a global scale, whether it's in global health, whether it is in aid, support to developing countries, there is a lot that we do in science cooperation with the Japanese in space exploration. They are an important partner for us as Americans and as the U.S. government and that doesn't change depending on the administration. Now, the approaches may change and there may be some emphasis that are different from Republican to Democrat or that are different from president to president. But what I have found across my experience working and living in Japan and representing the United States is that we get bipartisan support for the U.S.-Japan relationship in the U.S. government and that is a great thing for our relationship and for the business that we're trying to conduct. Yeah. I think one thing that the current folks here in Japan are getting ready for is a new ambassador. Obama-Manuel has been officially nominated by President Biden and I guess it's been deemed approval in the Senate. I know these things move slowly. Right. Before we started the show, you said that bringing an ambassador into the country is quite a complicated and detailed process. Could you talk about that? It is. Well, it's exciting because you've got anticipation on the host's government side and people asking a lot of questions. They want to know everything that they can know about the incoming ambassador designate. And of course, they're not only asking the embassy, they've got history and when it's a prominent person, like the current nominee, there's a lot of information out there. There's the information gathering process of what's this going to be like? Who's this person? What are their interests and how will that impact our relationship? But inside the mission as well, I can say that we're working with our colleagues in Washington to ensure that the ambassador designate has the latest and the best information that we've gathered about our relationship with Japan so that when he goes before Congress for his testimony, he is on for all of the issues and is aware of all of the things that we're tackling in this bilateral relationship. The other thing is that it's just exciting to have a new leader coming in. And so people are thinking about in each section, thinking about who will be the priority contact for the ambassador, the new ambassador to meet when he arrives. So that what is occupying people now is the preparation. And of course, once he's on the ground, then it will be implementing all those great plans. You know, you want him to meet these people first and foremost and arranging for those meetings and then preparing for those engagements is really important to make sure that the ambassador gets off to the best start possible in carrying out the president's priorities in our policy in Japan. Right. We're running, we only have a minute left. I imagine one of the things he's probably studying or the State Department people are preparing for is the fact that we have a new government here in Japan. We have a new prime minister who will put a different spin on things I would imagine. So there's probably information about him because he's certainly a known I would imagine that he was right hand man for one of his top assistants for quite a while. I would imagine that there is quite a bit of thought on both sides, you know, about the relationship between the two leaders. One of the features of the US-Japan relationship is that it has evolved to a very highly personalized relationship. You know, people still talk about the Ron Yasu friendship during Reagan. Exactly. And so that relationship, I mean, what's that personal chemistry going to be like? The US-Japan relationship is stable and it has endured over the past 70 some odd years. But that personal interaction is something that even now people look at and say, you know, if that if it clicks, if there is, you know, chemistry, if they get along personally, that bodes well for the bilateral relationship as well. All right, Karen, we'll have to end on that. Unfortunately, we can easily talk for another hour about your experience. We can. We didn't talk about the consign at all. I know. You're just a wonderful guest, Karen. But thank you so much. You're a great host. You're a great host. Oh, yeah. Well, I try to be quiet. That's my job. Thank you so much. The viewers who have tuned in and those of you who are going to see this when it's posted up on the ThinkTech website, if you enjoyed this promotion, the show, please contribute to the ThinkTech effort. I know the managers of the ThinkTech organization, which is a non-profit organization, would appreciate that very much. And again, Karen, it was just so wonderful to see you again. You look great. Great to see you too. Thank you. And your success to you. And please come back to Japan. You know, the COVID rates have gone down here significantly. So hopefully the quarantines will go down too. I know too. Yep. Thank you so much. Thank you for watching. Stay safe. Thanks.