 Good morning and welcome once again to the Breakfast here on Plus TV Africa for those who are just joining us. News reports in the last 48 hours, of course, spoke about violence in parts of Plateau State that led to the burning of up to 250 homes and the death also of dozens. We've also gotten to speak a lot about cases of insecurity across Nigeria, bandits who have started to tax, you know, citizens and, you know, just numerous very, very sad cases across the country. We're speaking this morning with Yehuda Getso, who is a security expert to share his thoughts on what must be done, you know, by Nigeria to read the country of these elements. Good morning, Mr. Getso. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you for joining us. We, of course, don't seem to be, you know, in very, very good time security-wise across the country. It seems that there is a certain elements that have, of course, been called bandits that become, are becoming more daring. Every other day, we hear about incidents of violence and killings, murder, you know, arson and the likes taking place in parts of the country. There's also been criticism for the way the Nigerian government has handled these issues. A couple of weeks ago, we saw a bandit who was boasting and bragging of killing Nigerian soldiers and, you know, there's no reports of him being arrested yet. Mr. Getso, what do you think we are still getting wrong with regards to fighting against banditry? Thank you for having me. What we are still having wrong is itemized or as follows. The issue of leadership. The leadership in the country is, doesn't seems to be serious, doesn't seems to be committed, doesn't seems to have political and administrative will, doesn't seems to be serious about the life of common man. As I have been seeing, all those who are committing these crimes are in Nigeria. All those who are committing these activities in the north-west, north-central, are indigenous and Nigerians and everybody knows who they are and everybody knows where they are. Their locations are not high and this is something that can be managed if and all the government is really serious about it. Because looking at the system and the structure in the north-west, for example, what we have is that you have what is called Mewa, that is a white head. You have what is called Deverchi, that is the village head. And you have what is called Haikiri, that is a district head. And you have what is called Emiya and that is Seriki, that is the Emiya. So between each Emiya and each of these leadership, there is each and every one of them have a boundary, have a geographical location for what he or she is taking care of and there is no free space between one community and another. So and these guys are coming in hundreds using motorcycles and these motorbikes are not using air for their utilization, they are using fuel, they are using diesel. You have to service them, you have to balance and gauge the air in the tires and so on and so forth. So who is doing that? You have what we call division police officers. You have what we call local security officers who are the representative of the director general of the DSS and each of the local governments. And you have outpost police stations and you have other intelligence formations and other structures of immigration, custom, inter-form, military formations among others, especially when these activities started in all parts of the country. There were a number of formations, military formations or joint task force that have been organized and money in thousands by being spent. Sometimes in 2014, 2015, sorry, 2017, 2018, Governor Nassau Ahmad Erofa'i and other governors of the Northwest, all governors of the Northwest, including the governor of Niger State from the Los Central represented the governors of the Los Central, they had a meeting. And then the disturbing issue was cattle rustling. So a hundred millions was given by each of these states to the military for them to go and fight these cattle rustlers. Unfortunately, rather than fighting the cattle rustlers, the outcome was banditry and kidnapping activities in these locations. And a number of children were kidnapped, especially the school children at Kankara, and Kagara, and Genki, and other places. And these kids were brought back, there was no more situation, so who facilitated the no more situation? We have had many times, even though I have been disputed in the governance of Kassimah and that of Zanfarah proclaiming, including sometimes the governor of Niger and the governors of Sokotoa proclaiming that they have hired dialogue with bandits. So if you have dialogue with bandits, how do you get access to them? Who is a contact person? Why can't he use a contact person to lead him? And why, what is the essence of government paying allowances to the traditional leaders at all levels, from the highest level to the down level, even though it is an allowances not a salary? But you need to understand, why can't he buy bonds or not? So the question is, when these guys were about to get a militia at the aircraft and other answer and munitions, a lot of arrests, we have made a lot of strategic guidance and provided a lot of strategic information, intelligence information to the security formations and then at the national level, at the state level, at the local government levels. But the question is, many have been apprehended, many have been arrested, but we have not yet seen one that has been charged to the court. Mr. Getto, really, you have raised a lot of points in the past minute. You've talked about the challenge of leadership and the people who claim to negotiate with bandits, how did they really get that access and why we're not capitalizing on that access to actually make sure that these people get arrested and that the people who have been victims get justice for all of that. You've talked about allowance to local rulers and what those funds should actually be used for. Prosecution also, like you were just mentioning. Well, I want to use a plateau example that occurred on Saturday to ask you this question. We've seen time and time again when states and communities are attacked. Community leaders go on to say that they had been trying to contact members of the police, the Nigerian army, but that they do not come until after that attack. Why do you think we continue to have that complaint? It is still taking us back to the case of the leadership, passion and patriotism. When I say leadership, I'm talking about the authority and the leadership of the security formations because in most cases, in the investigations we conducted and from the interviews, you, the people in the media conducted. We have had those communities say that when they approach the military formation station in their locations, that there is attack at social workplace, they will say that they are waiting for command from the top for them to do things. They cannot go and tell them that is one. And when we look at the issue of the passion, I have been saying that in the last 22 to 30 years, the recruitment of the security personnel having been in line with ethics and norms and values has stated the principles of what it's supposed to be, simply because of selfish from the leaders, selfish from the traditional institutions, selfish from the political authorities and their politically political leaders and elected people. However, a council won the recruitment of the military or a DSS or customer or any of the security formation is to fault. What used to happen is the fact that each and every one, the district head will bring his list, the chairman, local government chairman will have his list, the commissioner from that local government will have his list, then the military personnel also each have the leadership like likewise in the police, likewise in the DSS, likewise in the immigration, in the customer, all sorts of things. So those who are applying are not those who are being recruited. So those who are being recruited don't have the interest and passion and they don't have the patrol to be there in their minds. What they want is just to be a security personnel, they drag around, they go to their villages, they marry young girls and they strategically get money from us or whatever, using whatever influence to build houses to acquire unnecessary resources. Everybody knows that there are a lot of security personnel who are in businesses that they are not supposed to be today and all this issue of vital corruption that would have been taken here and there. The corruption is being bring. So we are using this mechanism of employing unpatriotic elements into the security formations to create a more corrupt, corruptly branded, newly branded individuals that are collating and collaborating and even generating resources from all sorts of registering companies and they are using some of their politically bias or motivated impact. They are even financing some of the political elements. Okay, Mr. Geto. So this is really affecting the system. You have made three powerful points right now. You first talked about, you know, when I asked you to say, you know, these communities complain that they have been attacked and that they call security agencies and they don't come after the attack. You said that they say they are waiting for a command. What sort of command? A command to go ahead and if that's the case, does that now justify when community leaders go ahead to say that, you know, these people are afraid, they don't want to get caught in the crossfire and that's why they wait till after the attack and you also mentioned something that they might be colluding with these headers, criminal headers and bandits. Could you please expand shades that point? Well, I think before we do not expand shades, we need to understand that this banditry activity is not only being conducted by the high cement, but it is a syndicate. Why I say it is a syndicate, these guys are living in the forest and bushes. So if they are living in the forest and they are bushes, it means somebody needs someone else is providing them with information. So those informants are the ones cultivating the process. These informants are mostly inhabitants, are mostly citizens of those communities that are living in Icarus and in most places you see them, they are out of these communities before it happens. So if we look at this and look at other issues, it is very clear that the dynamics and also there were a number of times when police caught some of the military personnel or sometimes military caught the single defense or the DSS or the customer, one of the security personnel colliding and providing information or providing support or coverage for these criminals to go to conduct their activities or sometimes in some cases they are even supporting them in terms of purchase of arms and other things. So it is in view of this, all these, sometimes when you have that they are said they are waiting for command, they are waiting for command from their next level of authority so that you know in the military and in the hierarchy of security information you have what is called chain of command. So I think if I get it then right, it is this chain of command that I make out of arms too. All right and it is one of the things I was also going to ask, the possibility of having in informants inside the security agencies with DSS, with the army, with the police and whatnot, the possibility that these bandits also get information from certain elements that have infiltrated our security agencies. So speak on that and then second, you know some of the things that you've mentioned because you know at the point you know it becomes it becomes tiring having these conversations and going in circles knowing exactly what needs to be done but doesn't seem to be done. Some of the things that you've mentioned, do you think that they should bother somebody somewhere that we're not seeing results? Do you think that there should be somebody who is concerned that there's no actual results with the fight against banditry? You mentioned you know the recruitment process, the kind of people who feel you know the you who are recruited into these agencies aren't people who are patriotic enough to actually fight you know insurgency and all of that. So it's our biggest challenge really the fact that it doesn't seem to be bothering particular persons that we're not actually winning the war against insurgency because if we were well if it did bother certain people then some of these things would have been corrected over time. But I think we saw the leadership at the oil level from the national level. I have been making reference to the government of Muhammad Bahari or the oil progress in congress the ruling party that if they have not been doing enough and they have not been serious about the issue of insecurity especially the banditry in the north west, north central and then some part of south west and south south all of our areas where and part of the north east where this activity is being carried out by these criminals. Because what is expected, at least in many times we have seen since indefended, since indefended there is no government that budgeted and they are implemented in budgets that used to be realistic. The huge amount of money that is invested in terms of insecurity, purchase of hardware, training, capacity building and so on and so forth that's related to security than that of the government of Muhammad Bahari. But unfortunately the other thing is getting worse. Like I mentioned earlier as I quoted Nassau Muhammad Bahari and Nassau Bahari of the communist nation that the seven levels of those western states including the representation from the north central governments which were represented by the governor of the major state who is the chairman of the north central government forward and they contributed 100 million each state to find what continuously so who is, who are those catalysts last? Are you trying to tell me that it is the simple animal that is taking the cow from the bush and taking it into the trucks and driving it to Lagos, to Potapot, to some part of north north west, some part of north east and some other parts that those catalysts that were who is driving them? Who are the machetes? Who is doing that? It means that it's a syndicate so but the person that is responsible for him or at least to look at the results and have a framework analysis for monitoring, tracking and evaluating whether the imputes were making is bringing resource. We are making a lot of impute of resources, financial and human resources so but are we getting the result? If we are getting the result, I have been criticizing the government of number one that since the time when it comes there is no single either one confine or officer that have been punished in public or in the formation so that that will serve as a deterrence. So a number of apprehension and a number of arrests have been made, some traditional leaders were arrested, some traditional leaders were vindicated and some individuals in the government and university formations were vindicated, having challenges were apprehended or were suspected to be part of those who are contributed. You invested a lot of money, you have given a lot of approval but still a hundred of people are being killed every day and there is no fueling station in the forest, there is no fueling station, there are no mechanics in the forest who are servicing these motorbikes. Where is the access of these arms and ammunitions and other hardware that is getting in the hand of these criminals? So what are all the money you have been investing? What is the essence of investing that money and what result has been provided for you? So it is not providing for you anything for you, it means you are not serious, it means we don't have a serious government, it means we don't have a sense that some of these bankings are even given ultimately to Nigerian states of 24 hours or a number of these. You have got a lot of clips, video clips and audio clips where parents of these children of the people, parents and families of those who are given out, who are given opportunity we have had also a situation where by a bankage in Kathmandu state, who now have the children of the students of this school, Greenfield, has given an opportunity to Nigerian states. We have had the forest of the living world around Niger, living world that is Kathmandu and Niger state or even between Kathmandu and Niger and Kathmandu states have given opportunity to Nigerian states. So if you have so much in the forest that you cannot challenge, that you cannot arrest, that you cannot apprehend, I wonder is Nigeria really a sovereign state? If it is a sovereign state, you really have a relation? There is no serious government that would allow what is happening in Nigeria to continue to happen. You are still advocating that there must be a sovereign system whereby there is collaboration between the school, the information, the government and the local operators. So you have to use a local strategy to address the local issues. Okay, Mr. again, so yes, I do agree we need local solutions for these local problems, but I need to ask you as a security expert, could you kindly tell me what does it take to shoot down an aircraft, especially in military aircrafts that the army uses to bombard terrorist settlement? And I'm tying this to the capabilities of the bandits as to how these bookworm terrorists that we don't even know they're financiers, how they're able to shoot down a fighter jet of the Nigerian army? No, no, don't tell me that they know, we don't know their finances. In this type of information, maybe mention in the assertion that they know who are the finances of the criminals in all parts of the country. So I wonder why, if you continue to tell me that we don't know the finances, I think you are making the wrong statement and I disagree with you based on the statement from the authority. My movement has made mention that they know the finances, they know what are doing, that what, and you know Muhammad Muhammad Muharrif, who comes with us as a man. He mentioned such assertion against the government of the foreign president that is the leader of Jonathan, that the government must have hand with any criminal. Okay, Mr. Ghetto, Mr. Ghetto, yes, yes indeed the government has said they know their finances and they keep making statements that they are going to publish a list of names that they never do. But could we focus on the the point here, which is how is a Boko Haram terrorist group able to shoot down, you know, fighter jets of the Nigerian military? It is because we are not utilizing our intelligence for decision-making. When using our intelligence for decision-making, I made mention of assertion or the information about the media or local and international media, when I got the information that these guys that were sometimes doing in 2018-2019 or thereby, when I made mention that there are informations about Nigeria that these guys are going to obtain or to receive an AA, that is anti-aircraft, a missile. So if at all, government then we have seen those, we have, I have provided narrating information on the media through local and international media departments, providing information of the strategies we use, providing information on how money is being transported for this purpose. And also I provided, later I provided, if also information that additional money is being collected for the bandits around the Biniwari area and the police, the bandits that I don't know today, within the areas of Biniwari, Dandini and Kagara, the bandits, the Nigerians, as well as the part of the Bina area of Kyrgyzstan, the local area of Kyrgyzstan. I have made mention that these guys are working towards obtaining an AA, and I have made mention them that I have accessed information, I have accessed information through pledges, and they are very much ready to provide those information, so that those who are responsible for donating the money, transporting the money, moving the money from Nigeria to other neighboring states, and where the money is going to go so can be presented. Yes, Mr. Getzo, that I believe is a fantastic response, you know, making sure that you share the information that you have to make sure that, you know, those people, those criminals and criminal herders are persecuted. Mr. Yahuza Getzo, security experts, we appreciate your opinion every day. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Okay, so we'll take a break here to join our guests who are standing by to help us analyze that security situation that occurred in Plata State over the weekend.