 Welcome back. The technical glitch we had with the first guest could not be resolved. Now we move into our second segment. November 2nd is a day recognized as the international day to end impunity for crimes against journalists. The resolution was made by the United Nations General Assembly at its 68th session in 2013. All gene member states to implement definite measures countering the present culture of impunity. Government, civil society, the media and everyone concerned to uphold the rule of law have been asked to join in global efforts to end impunity for crimes against journalists. This year the main commemoration of this significant day is scheduled to take place today and tomorrow, the second and the third of November, with the event aimed at strengthening ties between organizations and actors involved in the promotion of freedom of expression and enforce a coordinated response to the threats faced by journalists. The date was chosen in commemoration of the assassination of two first journalists in Mali on November 2nd, 2013. Joining me to discuss this is Jalingu Abba, journalist, Abba Jalingu. Welcome to Plus Politics. I hope you can hear me well enough. You seem to be breaking. Okay, because for a while you were not too audible to me. Abba, you are lying. You lived to some experience not too long ago. You want to basically intimate our public? I think that all the history and the stories that were made from my research, which was actually written by public, public the rule of law, I thought it was available to write. It's public values. I had a very young man in the past. All these experiences were actually chronicled by journalists all over the country. I had to talk twice in the past four years or five approximately. I had to go into jail twice for attempting to do my work. First, even the first and the second were all with the immediate family of the immediate past governor, prosecutor, governor, even though the charges that were profiled against me in 2019 when I was arrested, the court case said it was the Republic of Nigeria versus Abba Jalingu. But of course, it was known to everybody that followed the issues that it was the immediate past governor of my city that was behind all of my audio. Even the subsequent matter is still placed on the same doorstep. The thing is that, in summary, is that I tried to do my work in cross civil status, the journalist calling government to account and that has come with a lot of consequences. It has cost me, in the first instance, it cost me 179 days of incarceration at the Afro-Camp prison. And of course, at the anti-cultism unit in cross civil status, that's about six months. And I tried that last day for three years before I was discharged and acquitted. Then the second round started where I was kept at the avatar of police station in Abuja. And of course, kept at Kujib prison for additional nine days. I was charged to court and by next week again, I was given court on Wednesday next week to answer to the criminal charges that were prepared against me. So it's a long story. It's out there for the public. But I think basically there's a summary of what has happened in the past five years, twice in prison and a couple of other times at the police station for trying to do my work. And it's a deal of so many journalists up to this time, even after 25 years of democracy. So the initial time, were you freed or what became of the case? Just wanting to make sure that we have a chronological logic to the two incidents. Yeah, just to say, each of you could discharge and acquitted the matter. After three years of trial, the state was able to call any witness against you. And I was diligently attending my court sessions. The matter went through, but from Justice Amubada to Justice Chuaibu to Justice Ijeoma who eventually said that if after three years, the state cannot call you witness against me then it means that you didn't have any case against me. So the matter was charged and acquitted. The second one is the matter of defamation, that's what they said. And the police also fired a charge against me. The matter is still ongoing. Two witnesses have been called. And on one easy, the trial will continue at the federal high court in Anguja. So that's what we are looking for. But for the first one, I was discharged and acquitted because I was charged for four counts, charged for terrorism, prison, we fell on a court season and attempt to overdue the president of, the former president of the Republic of Nigeria, for example. But the state was able to call any witness against me for three years. And I was, the matter was thrown out of. But this one is still ongoing. So I wouldn't want to talk about this since the matter is too soft. But you still have to be travelling between Calabar and the Buja on days that the case is listed for hearing. Is that so? Yeah, for three years I kept going from Lagos to Kuru. We are from, for three years I kept going from Lagos to Calabar every court date and right now I still have to travel from Lagos to Abuja to stand trial because on both occasions the police came to actually kidnap me from my residence, from the hands of my wife and my family. They actually visited me and asked to come grab me away from there. So on both occasions I have to travel either from Lagos to Calabar or from Calabar to Abuja. And I should also say that in almost all of these incidences we have filed both criminal and civil charges against me. So we, the court dates, I'm just talking about the criminal matters now that I'm talking but there are other civil cases amounting to close to 10 billion error standing in court against me for alleged claims of defundition and all of that. But they haven't been able to secure any conviction and some of the matters have been thrown away and some are still ongoing. But in the first case when we were acquitted the court did not award you any recompense for the rigmarole and the now liberty that you suffered before the judge got so exasperated and let you off. It wasn't one of the demands of my lawyer before the court. I think what happened to that regard was that said I went to the Ekowa's court to file matters for the enforcement of my fundamental human rights and the Ekowa's court awarded 30 million error damages to me which have not been paid to today. Because the fire government is reluctant to implement decisions of the Ekowa's court. However, as it stands today the fire government is going to pay 30 million error according to the judgement of the Ekowa's court. I came out of prison and testified in that court via Zoom and the court gave a judgment and said that the government should pay me 30 million error over the Ekowa's court. It was the Ekowa's court that said that but an indigenous court here back home has not been able to give that judgment because it wasn't part of our demands before the court. If I need to, I'm the one that can now go to court and demand for such damages having been discharged and acquitted by the court but I didn't see that as the priority for myself. What could have instructed all these seemingly sadistic experiences what you are not the only journalist in Nigeria why would they be lasering on you? Do you have any idea? We have a very conservative state that wasn't used to the kind of journalism that I do you see what even somebody like Rufai was saying in Arise TV is going through today the kind of journalism we do in this country is not the kind of journalism that rattles anybody people are content with those going to ask questions and coming to say what Mr. A said people are now used to being pushed to a boss to answer questions on behalf of the public and the moment you ask those questions they come after you I don't think it was any specific case before then we were very close friends we just got to a point where you felt that I was asking too many questions and needed to try to short me that was what happened actually I don't think there was anything special about what happened somebody just felt that you are not supposed to be asking me these questions you are my brother, you are my friend you are not supposed to and I said we are not doing a family meeting here we are going to ask the questions that I am supposed to ask who said you shouldn't have been asking the kind of questions we are asking the former governor, he wasn't happy that I was asking nobody in public office would appreciate you when you were asking the kind of tough questions I was asking they miscalculated they thought that coming at me in that manner was going to stop me from doing that but it was actually a miscalculation that point is clear to everybody right now but you say there are also civil cases filed against you are you perchance also are you perchance also thinking of counter filing cases for the sufferings and bad experiences that you have had to suffer I don't know if we will get to that point but for now it's not part of my regular routine to dream of dragging people to courts I just want to do my job as a journalist do the best I can do I see journalism as a tool to change society and I am very interested in working off every morning and spending all my time to see how I can ask the hard questions dog after the use of those who are empowered ask them those questions that you don't want anybody to ask going to court to only distract my attention it's not part of what I'm thinking what's the final words to fellow journalists who may not have experienced something like this but who may need to be psychologically prepared for the date it may come the truth is that Nigeria today anyway the forthright journalist is a fellow colleague suddenly people will come out and call you names and tell you are not the journalists like they are telling you now call your clients to demonize you to make sure they weaken your resolve if you want to do journalism in Nigeria I have seen people I tell my colleagues that I am particularly not concerned about this I am more particularly concerned about the impact of the reports and the stories that you are doing what is your unveiling and how much change is it bringing to the society it is not that busy that you end my respect people must learn to ask questions if a young journalist and you aspire to do journalism and you want to ask questions you must know that the first food that will come after you will not be even the states that you are criticizing it's actually going to be your colleagues from the forthright states who will demonize you for reasons usually best known to them some of them is just simply because it's bringing a popularity like it's bringing a reverse in and the rest of them they will get angry with you but if you want to ask questions you just have to be strong be tough and be ready to go through the equitable that's the only thing that can distinguish you from them if you want to make stories that will bring a difference you must be ready to go through some pain eventually nothing is going to happen to you you just need to suffer some inconvenience and at the end of the day you are going to be fine thank you Abad Jalingo we really have to go now thank you so much we appreciate you we wish you all the best in all these encounters thank you so much you're welcome thank you Globalist Nigeria Globalist Journalism amen amen today's throwback remembering Dele Giewa an other slain and a biggest journalist today international day to end impunity against journalists Dele Giewa's gruesome mother remains a troubling chapter in Nigeria's history and a stark reminder of the pervasive culture of impunity surrounding security officers Dele Giewa a renowned journalist and founding editor of now defunct news watch magazine was statistically killed by a letter bomb while having breakfast with a colleague called a showing car on October 1986 the Sunday morning incident sent shockwaves throughout the nation and world as it was a brazing attack on press freedom and a blatant act of violence against a journalist known for his stylistic and fearless reporting Dele Giewa's mother raised serious questions about the safety of journalists who dared to uncover truths and challenge the status quo what makes this case particularly upsetting is the lack of accountability and justice that followed despite widespread speculation and demands for answers the investigation into Dele Giewa's mother seemed to have stormed eventually leading to a culture of impunity for those responsible this incident served as a dream reminder of how security officers and powerful individuals could evade the precautions of their actions the tragic event not only silenced a prominent voice in Nigerian journalism but also highlighted the dangers faced by journalists whose works exposed corruption and challenged the establishment it cast a shadow on the freedom of the press and the fundamental right of citizens to freely assess unbiased information Dele Giewa's mother serves as a somebody reminder of the need for a robust and independent justice system capable of holding those in power accountable for their actions it also underscores the importance of fostering a culture that values and protects press freedom ensuring the safety of journalists as they carry out their vital role in society in conclusion although the impunity surrounding Dele Giewa's mother may have persisted for nearly three decades it is crucial that we continue to demand justice and honour his memory by advocating for a society where no one is above the law regardless of their position in and out of power and that's it on the show tonight I am Bola Hoba have a good night