 Hello, everyone. Today I have Jerry McGinnis, who is a former partner at KPMG and the author of a new book called Advice for a Successful Career in the Accounting Profession. This book answers any questions you have as an accounting student starting your career all the way up to if you'd like to be in a partner. Today Jerry is going to talk to us about his experience and what he can share with you, either as a CPA candidate, a future CPA partner, or a current accounting students. Jerry, thank you so much for agreeing to have this interview with us. And please, if you don't mind, could you tell us a little bit more about your background, about yourselves? Sure, Mansur. Thank you very much for having me and delighted to be with you today. As you mentioned, I'm a CPA by background and training. I did spend my career with KPMG in the Philadelphia office. I was on the audit side of the house, so eventually I became an audit partner serving clients in a variety of industries. My particular area of focus was emerging growth companies, technology companies, many of whom have raised venture capital and eventually went public so very interesting area. But later in my career, I did have the opportunity to get into some leadership roles with the firm. So I spent six years overseeing our audit practice in Pennsylvania that included our offices in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Harrisburg. And then eventually finished up my career for the last eight years as the office managing partner of the Philadelphia office. And that role really gave me an opportunity to work with our advisory and tax professionals as well as our audit professionals, and really have a lot of involvement in the community. Interacting with our clients, prospective clients, the marketplace, one of our core values at the firm was to try and get back to the communities a little bit so we did a lot of charitable work. Since retiring from KPMG a few years ago, I've had the chance to get involved on a couple boards. So I'm serving on the board of a public company, technology company as their audit committee chair. I'm also serving on the board of a mutual fund complex in the asset management space, doing some nonprofit board work as well and some consulting work. One of the things that's really been fun for me is I've been helping out the accounting program at a local university near where I live in Southern New Jersey called Rowan University, and I support their accounting program as an executive in residence. Absolutely. Absolutely. And now it's time to give back to the community as you mentioned. I mean, your book, it's a roadmap. I read it. It's just take your step by step, why you want to start a professional accounting all the way up how to succeed in the real world. So if you don't mind, I'm going to be asking you about the book itself. I want you to emphasize, I mean, we can, I wish we can go over the whole 16 chapters, I believe. Absolutely, but you were close. Yes. How many, 17, 18, 18, 18. But I want to go through it. I want to focus on the main points. And the first one is, a lot of people who are listening, they may not be accounting majors. They might be business students who end up on my YouTube, trying to learn financial or managerial accounting. Plus, why accounting is a good major? We're both biased, obviously, but you are approving success story. You are a former partner at KPMG. So please go ahead. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Great question. And actually chapter one of my book is entitled Why Accounting is a Terrific Profession. And in there I share, you know, that people talk about the financial rewards and the ability to make a good living and that is certainly true. But there are many other aspects of the accounting profession that are terrific, right? It's challenging, interesting work. You have a seat at the table, whether you're an outside auditor or you're the CFO of a company. You're literally in the boardroom as important decisions are getting made at companies of all sizes. It could be a Fortune 500 company. It could be a family business. It could be a nonprofit. But accountants are at the table. Warren Buffett, the famous investor, famously said accounting is the language of business and it's true. So if you want to be on the leading edge of American business, I can honestly say there's no better profession than accounting. And many accountants I've known, folks who have started out in accounting, majored in accounting, have branched out and done other things in their career and risen into senior level leadership roles in the C suite of all kinds of companies. They sit on the boards of public and private companies. In the book, I tell the story of my friend Ed Hamway. Ed started with one of the larger accounting firms as a staff auditor. He eventually left and joined an insurance company. That insurance company was involved in multiple business combinations. They eventually became Cigna, a Fortune 50 company, and Ed became the CEO of Cigna, leveraging his accounting background all the way. You know, if nothing else, you know how to read a P&L, right? And if you're managing a business, that's a skill set that's pretty important. Absolutely, absolutely. And we need to account in all industries, whether it's sports, software, real estate, pharmaceutical, technology, it doesn't matter. You can have that seat on the table if you are part of the accounting process. You always have to start as a staff and move up. Now, many students, they also finished their accounting degree, but they don't go for their CPA. Could you explain the importance? Why go for your CPA? Yeah, you know, this is good. This is chapter two of my book. You know, it's entitled, Is the CPA path the right path for you? Can I try and address that question in a very objective fashion? It may not be the right path for everyone, but for many it is. And as you alluded to, I have a bias. You know, I think if you're going to be an accountant, if you're going to get an accounting degree, go for that top designation, which in my opinion is the CPA. There are many other great designations out there. If you're going to be a management accountant, perhaps a CMA is a good path. If you're going to be an internal auditor, perhaps you want to pursue that internal audit designation. There's forensic designations. There's all sorts of designations. I actually described them all in the book, just so students and readers understand the many options they will have with an accounting degree. But my end advice to the reader is become a CPA, maybe combine it with another credential. So if you're in management accounting, CPA, CMA. But the reason I believe the CPA is kind of the gold standard, it's well recognized by not just people in business, but the layperson on the street kind of understands the importance of the credential. Over a long career, most individuals will make more money. They'll be offered better promotions when they transfer jobs, they'll have better opportunities with a CPA designation and it's a hard test. You know, it requires a lot of work, but it's an investment in your future. And in my case, and I think the case of many others, the return on that investment is substantial over a lifetime. Absolutely. Absolutely. I always remind my students at the end of every recording, you're going to have to study for two to three years and it's going to pay you different for the next 40 years. It's going to determine where you live, which car you drive, your partner in life, so on and so forth. Not that those are important in a sense those should not be your motivation. You should have internal motivation, but if those are your motivation, passing the exam, even though you don't know what you want to do for now, you will figure it out later because the CPA will open many doors for you. You talked about the CMA, the CIA, the CFE. Yes, being a CPA, you can do all of those, but if you went into that industry a little bit more specific, if you want to be an internal auditor, then you will combine your CPA with the CIA, with your CPA, with the CMA. Another question for you, this may sound very simple, but I want to make sure you clarify it for us. You put it in your own terms, the difference between public accounting and private accounting case. Yes, it's a great question and one that many students who are new to accounting or taking that first accounting class or maybe thinking about accounting often ask. And the simple way I think to answer the question is, if you are in public accounting, you are doing work for a client or multiple clients, right? You're providing a service. It could be an audit service. It could be a tax consulting service. It could be an advisory service, but basically you're working for the client. Your firm is sending the client a bill for your time. If you're in private accounting, you're working for a company, right? So you're the CFO or the controller or the management accountant or the staff accountant. You might be preparing the financial statements as opposed to the public accountant is going to come in and audit the financial statements, providing that service to the company. So briefly in public accounting, you know, there are many paths you can take. You can be an auditor. You can be a tax professional. You can be an advisory professional. You could do that at one of the big four accounting firms or you could do that at a regional firm, a local firm. There's a lot of great firms out there of all different sizes. That's something, and you alluded to this earlier in our conversation, Mansoor. If you're in private industry, and you like technology, right? You could go be an accountant or a CFO for a technology company, or you could work in the fashion industry, or I describe in the book. One of my best friends is somebody who loves sports in general and baseball in particular. He leveraged his accounting degree and his CPA to become the CFO to fill up your fillers, a job he loves. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would like to add one more point. Basically, if you're a lawyer, okay, you could work for one particular company that's private accounting, or you can work in a law firm where you service many clients. So when you service many clients, that's what public accounting is. I know because many students, they have a confusion about this. Now, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to ask you another question that's student related. I know you're very involved with the students. And what advice would you give to students who are entering the profession as a staff accountant? Because, you know, there's a high turnover. But what advice would you give them to kind of stick to it and succeed in this career? Because you went through it. Yes, it's a great question. And I would say, number one, don't necessarily believe all the quote unquote worst stories you hear about the horrendous hours and the busy seasons and working around the clock. I mean, I talk about this in the book and I try and give a very handed view. I was in the profession 36 years. So I certainly understand what busy seasons are all about. And accounting is a deadline driven business. So that is going to entail overtime. At times that overtime will be substantial. But it's generally limited if you're an auditor to a certain kind of window of about six to seven, eight weeks during that busy season, kind of from mid January to mid March. So at that time of year, most companies have calendar year in so they're all getting their audits done, a lot of the tax works getting done. The rest of the year, there can be times where you will be asked to work overtime, maybe your clients doing an IPO or working on an M&A transaction, but it's not a steady constant long hours throughout the rest of the year. Most importantly, all the firms have become much more aware of the importance of work life balance. So they have all sorts of programs and initiatives to kind of balance things out for their younger professionals. So I think it's gotten a lot better than it was maybe when I started my career. A couple other quick things in terms of advice for students, get your CPA early. The best time to do it is right after you get out of school. Start studying that summer. You may not be starting your job to the fall. It's a great opportunity to kind of get it knocked out or major portions of it knocked out. Life doesn't get any simpler as you get older, right? Your job becomes more involved after a couple years you're supervising other people, more responsibility. Maybe a boyfriend, girlfriend enters into the mix. So you're never going to have more time than you have right now getting out of school as a student. You may think you're busy, but trust me, you're going to get a lot busier in the years to fall. So get the exam early. It's a key success factor. Another thing is, I tell young professionals, ask a lot of questions. You know, that's how you learn. And sure, do your work trying to understand something you're working on first. But if you're struggling, ask others for help. Another tip, ask for feedback and ask for feedback on a regular basis. Most companies, firms have formal mechanisms where they will review you once or twice a year and give you formal feedback. That is far too infrequent. Ask for feedback on a regular basis from your supervisor, your clients, your coworkers. That'll help you get better sooner, quicker. That's it. Read. You know, reading is becoming a lost part. I talk about this in the book. Successful people read. Nowadays, we get a lot of our information from these devices, text messages, social media, nothing wrong with that. But we need to sometimes get a little deeper beyond the surface and read more substantively. So I tell students and young professionals, read the Wall Street Journal, read other business publications, be informed that will be a huge boost to your career. Yes, Wall Street Journal. I love it. Yes. A few things I just want to agree with everything that you said, but I always tell the students and everybody who's listening that it is tough. I always seldom expect the worst. And it may not be as you said Jerry, but I always prepare them for the worst. It may not be, but always prepare yourself for the worst. And another advice I can give them is find a good mentor. Find someone who is competent, who's willing to help you and meet with them on a regular basis, weekly basis, pay for their lunch, take them out for happy hour, talk to them, have a list of questions. Don't bother them all the time, but have a list of questions and from week to week or month to month, that list will decrease and you will start to help other people. So find a good mentor. I cannot emphasize this enough. And as Jerry said, the CPA work is no two days are the same. You have to figure things out for yourself. And oftentimes, Jerry, you know this, that you as a partner, you may not know the solution for an issue and the staff will have to figure it out. So expect to learn on by yourself to roll up your sleeve, get your hands dirty, and you are talking to a KPMG former partner and he's telling you this. So just be prepared. It's a rewarding career. Every time you learn something, it's not that it's not you learn it and you're going to throw it away. You're going to learn it. It's like you acquire the weapon for your next battle. And that arsenal would increase over time and you become a very powerful professional. It takes time, but that's how it, that's how it works. Well said. Thank you. Thank you, Jerry. In chapter 15, you talked about character traits that can help you succeed. Could you choose two or three of them and just any two or three you would like to because I, you know, I, I love them all and emphasize them any two or three. Sure. Yeah, happy to do it. So I'll start with attitude. I really do believe your attitude can be either an asset or a liability. And I've met a lot of young professionals that unfortunately it's a liability you know they, they seem to always have an issue a concern a problem to complain about. And listen, we all have bad days. Don't get me wrong. I sometimes have those days where you need to pull off some steam but generally having a positive attitude having a constructive attitude. If you see there are issues or challenges maybe think about what is the solution what can I do to improve this situation as opposed to it's so it's so unfortunate I've been placed in this situation. I think in any profession but certainly in accounting resilience and mental toughness are important traits. You're going to have some challenging days it can be a demanding profession, whether you go into public accounting or private accounting, and sometimes things aren't going to go so well so being able to kind of mentally work through that and stay positive really important traits. And you're right, I list 10 or 12 things in chapter 15 but in the interest of time I'll just hit one more. There's no substitute for hard work, you know, you really do need to put in the effort and the time to become a master of your craft. And that takes work whether it's studying for the CPA exam or doing a good job once you get out into the profession. I'm not afraid to work hard. Again, don't believe all the eight hours a week all year round. They're missed in my mind, but you are going to have to work hard. Absolutely Jerry I would like to add a small experience that I used to utilize. I used to visit the office I work in a medium, I would say medium CPA firm but not the second company in Bethlehem. The office on Saturday off season, just to look at the prior year paperwork to learn it takes time to learn it's you have to make the investment and there's no substitute for hard work you don't have to be smart. You don't have to have a high IQ, as long as you are willing to put the time and learn. Yes, there is going to be a struggle challenges. This is how you grow it's like a growing your muscles, you got to work it until it becomes stronger. And these days, especially now in February people are very busy during the tax season. And I'm sure some of them will be listening to this what could you give them I know there's a one whole chapter about avoid burnout and this is what I stopped with your chapter 16. Could you give them some tips please because they're studying for the exam. They could be taken a course or two they can, you know, maybe studying for the exam internship and something else so what would you give them what what advice. So again, you're right I have a chapter devoted to how to avoid burnout and it's so important I mean I think there are a lot of professions and occupations where burnout happens you know whether it's police officers firefighters frontline responders, people in the medical profession but certainly it impacts the accounting profession. There can be some long hours as we talked about in busy season there can be stress if you're facing a deadline. Number one being organized right and kind of understanding looking out seven, eight, 10 days ahead what deadlines are coming up, not realizing the night before you have a big test oh my gosh I've got to study that just increases your stress and anxiety so being, being organized being prepared, doing a little bit at a time, rather than studying eight hours the night before how about we study one hour each of the eight days before that might greatly increase your odds of being successful. I think getting appropriate amount of rest right getting your sleep at night incredibly important getting your exercise eating right these are all things that when you're under pressure stress working long hours sometimes suffer. But if you make them a priority that can actually help you kind of deal with some of those pressures that might otherwise create burnout. So just self care right. Exercise sleep diet, these things are really important and lastly, you know no matter how dedicated you are no matter how much you love your job. It can't be all about accounting right. You know, after an eight or 10 hour day and reading accounting textbooks that's not great you're going to burn out. So have interest outside of work, maybe it's sports, maybe like to play video games, maybe like to hang out with your friends but whatever you do that helps you get some downtime and recharge your batteries. Make sure you do that on a regular basis, even during the most busy times. Find that hour or two where you can take a break and when you come back, you'll be refreshed you'll be recharging will be much more prepared to not suffer burn out. Absolutely Jerry and I cannot emphasize being organized I know you have one whole chapter about being organized. I will always tell you know my students my followers have to to to do list one a daily to do list like every day. In the morning I'll prepare my to do list I'm going to have to do this this this and that and kind of keep myself accountable and believe me guys it helps tremendously. It keeps you organized and on track also have long term goals, but also short term goals as well so you can stay organized until you have long term goals. I want to talk to you about the importance of giving back and many of the students who are listening they may not be they may not relate to it. Nevertheless, I want to plan that seed that given back is important I believe in given back I figured out given back by accident when I started my YouTube channel where I was given and I wasn't aware of it I was I thought I was just teaching my students but I was not aware that other people are watching and benefiting. And I, you know, I enjoyed the given back now it's a good feeling so I want you to kind of just plan that seed in those future CPAs future successful accountant that what does it mean and you can start to give back today, volunteer by volunteering but please go ahead. Sure now it's it's a great question and it's important and I would argue you're never too young to start giving back right you might be two years out of school. Maybe you're in your first role where you're supervising other people. Those other people are going to come to you they're going to have questions they're going to need help. You're going to be busy doing your own work. And the only thing to do is to give them the short answer kind of blow them off right, but if you invest the time to sit with them help them work through their issue address their concern you're not only helping them, and we'll feel good about it. You're helping yourself right because you're helping yourself become a better leader a better supervisor a better project manager. If it goes on maybe you're six years out your manager right maybe there's an opportunity to join a nonprofit board and get back to an organization that you care about that you support. It could be a little baseball team it could be the Red Cross it could be the Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts. My work my advice is find something that you really believe in their mission, but they love accountants right because they have financial statements they need your help and expertise, and getting involved in organization organization like that is a form of giving back but it can also help you develop your leadership skills. Maybe you'll have an opportunity to serve on the board of that organization and get some governance experience. So, the most important thing I could say though man sir is whether, whether you're helping in the community or serving on nonprofit board or coaching you sports or helping your younger colleague at work. There's a tremendous sense of satisfaction from helping others that's been my experience and actually giving back can be very rewarding to the person that's doing it so it's kind of a win win situation and that's why I definitely encourage folks to begin doing it early in their careers. Absolutely and by by by supervising other you are really as Jerry said you are helping yourself. You know how to teach being a good leader being a good teacher that's going to pay off down the road so I cannot emphasize that enough myself as well. One more thing I would like to like you to talk about that's in the book, having a value creation mindset. No, it's a very important topic and you know really the, the simple way to translate having a value creation mindset is think like an owner right pretend it's your business. You're not just showing up to check a box and putting your hours what would you be doing to serve that client better to get that new client to to sort of help develop your college differently if it were your business versus you were working for somebody so having a value creation mindset is all about getting up every morning thinking about how can I make my firm or my company a better place how can I increase its value. I can assure you if you do that consistently throughout your career, people will notice and you will be rewarded with raises promotions opportunities. That's certainly one of the best investments you can make in the future. I want to mention one other thing briefly man so that you didn't ask me about but it's just so important to any business profession professional and particularly accounts. And that is the importance of ethics and integrity right. We sort of take those things for granted. But but I've seen many cases in my career where people had ethical lapses and it really hurt their careers and hurt their futures and so being ever mindful of the importance of acting in an ethical fashion with high integrity and building trust. Those are critically important things for any young professional to think about it and absolutely accounts. Yes, you could always find a job. If you lost your job but once you lose your integrity, it's done. You can always find a job but you cannot find your integrity again. And as you were mentioning, you remind me of Jim Rohn saying work on yourself, rather than on your job and by doing so by product you will benefit your company. I love Jim Rohn. I listen to him so he always says this work on yourself and this is why work on yourself treat each job each assignment as you are the owner, because in a public accountant you are actually the owner they want you to do they want you to be the owner. You just have to prove yourself. So when you think as an entrepreneur, your motivation totally changes and this is how you have to do it, especially in every field, but especially in public accounting. What can we find this book? What can students users find this book? Sure. Thank you for asking me. So it's available on Amazon. If you just Google the title advice for a successful career in the accounting profession or my name, it'll pop right up. It's also being carried in a couple hundred retail locations around the country here in the US, Barnes and Noble stores like that. Wiley is the publisher, so it's available on their website. It's also been released in Canada. So I think anyone anywhere in the world can get it through Amazon. That's probably your best bet, but those are some other stores. And it will be listed in the description below on YouTube if it's on LinkedIn and the description above. And I'm going to also post your LinkedIn profile if you don't mind, as well, in case anybody would like to connect with you. Any last word, please, Jerry. No, I would just like to thank you for having me today. It's been great to talk about some of these topics. I think they're incredibly important to young professionals and young accountants and those thinking about the field of accounting. As we talked about, it's a great profession and, you know, I created the book really to be a resource to some of those folks. So I hope they find it helpful. Thank you very much for your time, Jerry. And it's a pleasure hosting you. Thank you everyone and stay safe and stay motivated and study hard.