 Hey everybody this is Christian Buckley doing another MVP buzz chat and I'm talking today with Aiden. Hello. Hi there. How are you? I'm doing well. And for folks that don't know you, you've been a long time in this space. But for folks that don't know you, who are you, where are you, and what do you do? Well, I'm Aiden Finn and I'm a 16 year MVP. I am in North Kildare in Ireland. So if you look over to Europe, the western most little teeny tiny island is Ireland and I'm on the east coast but depending on traffic between half an hour and an hour and a half from Dublin. And what do I do? I am a principal consultant for a Nordic consulting company. So I work remotely. It's nice working in the cloud and I'm here in my office at home and I'm a Azure consultant. So I work primarily with customers, mid to large, private sector governments who are going through usually messy migrations. I get the messy ones. I spent a lot of my, again, I came from the SharePoint side and early on I spent a lot of time with clients that had messy migrations and helping fix that. In fact, I think that's an ongoing, anybody works in the SharePoint space, there continues to be a lot of opportunity in helping clients clean up. Yeah, I get a lot of that. So for example, I see all this chatter about Azure Migrate. I never get to use Azure Migrate because the situations are usually beyond the capabilities of any of the migration tools out there. It's usually very manual rebuild processes. Yeah. So a lot of labor. Well, that's what we used to, we came up with phrasing. This is like 10, 11 years ago of full fidelity migration. I'm sure that the concept is saying like what customers to say, I want to take exactly what I have here in this environment and move it over to the new environment exactly like that. It's like, yeah, it doesn't quite work like that. It's nothing like that for me because I'm usually, I usually get the customer where we can't touch the original equipment because it's in some shared hosting platform with multiple tenants sharing the same physical hosts or there's outdated operating systems that aren't supported in Azure or the customer is made a fair decision to dump VMs and go to platform. So we're usually looking at replatforming, re-architecture, rebuilding OSs, dealing with ISVs, gets old versions of software, replacement new versions of software, figuring out how do we get something that used to run on 2008 to run on 2019 or 2022 or will it even support PaaS at all? So yeah, usually lots of interesting conversations. Well, again, my entrance into the Microsoft ecosystem right at the beginning was doing IBM migrations over to SharePoint and Exchange. So again, it was just, there was no migration. That was the secret. It was, you're going in and recreating. Oh, from Domino to Microsoft. All of that. Domino at the back end. You were the most popular person with users and least popular person in IT. Lotus Notes. No, no, actually, users, IT, they were, it was the opposite. The IT generally were supportive, like help us, and it was the users that weren't happy with experience. I mean, Lotus Notes, part of the problem with it is that you had all these user-created database small applications, which is kind of like power platform, so they were just tied to that. And there was no mapping of those things over to the new solution. So it was usually from the top down saying, we're going to move off of this away from this we want. So we're going to have to re-architect all these different solutions, help us to do that, and end users were fighting it. Yeah. Wow. You think about it with really doing CCOE, Cloud Center of Excellence? Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah. Before the term was coined. Right. Well, it's interesting. Again, I look at this thing, I started my career in doing data center consolidation. So it's all kind of the same thing. I mean, I did massive projects where we were upgrading the hardware, we were rolling out little software packages like business objects, you know, doing training of users, constantly upgrading the capabilities of these systems for these, worked for the phone company. And so these were some of the largest consumer marketing databases and systems to reach all of the, you worked in North California for those that remember Pacific Bell, you worked at Pac Bell, were massive projects, but it was a great experience to go through and learn about change management and the low tolerance that most organizations have for change. So it was a great learning experience. Yeah. Yeah. That would have been. Not many people have those war stories. Yeah. It's a, well, you've been doing IT, I've been, so I've been doing this for 33 years. And so most of what people come in is like, do you have an example of like this situation of like, ah, I've got a few stories for whatever situation you could throw me. So what, so we were talking before we started recording too. I know for 16 years, Azure wasn't around 16 years ago. So what was kind of your path? What were, when did you, when you originally became an MVP, what was that process like? Oh, wow. So way back when probably 2003, 2004, I was working for a finance company. So a German owned finance company that had its headquarters in Dublin and later went on to try, take part in the takedown of the world economy. But that's a different story, speaking of war stories. And Microsoft Ireland became aware that I was, you know, doing some bleeding edge stuff and asked me to come in to their offices and do some presentations and the technical account manager, we had said, hey, have you heard of this thing called the MVP program? I said, no. He said, yeah, maybe I might nominate you for that based on some of the presentation stuff you've done for us. And I said, OK, that's cool. At the same time I started going online and using support forums and stuff like that. And there was one forum I used to go to. So those of us who've been around in the Windows world long enough might remember the name Mark Manassi and Mark was, you know, a very well known author in the Windows space and a presenter at, you know, the big conferences, particularly in the US, so the tech ads and stuff like that and wind connections. And I got on to his forum, I got to know a bunch of the people on there and a bunch of them were MVPs. And I was like, whoa, people are really smart. This MVP thing must be good. And I was submitted. I didn't get in because I really didn't have content. So some of your watchers may know that becoming an MVP, you really have to have a year of solid content, community contributions. That's right. They're making any profit. It's an award for community contributions. And they look at only the last year. I mean, you may have been on fire three years ago. Irrelevant. It's the last year. Yeah. And that impacts your renewals. So every year you have to continue to contribute to the community to stay in the program and answer the relevant technologies for your expertise. So I had that in the back of my head. And a few years later, I started doing some presenting. So I was asked by Microsoft to start up a user group for Windows Server. And I started doing a lot of presenting at that because I couldn't get other presenters. And I started doing a bit of blogging. And I started to try to raise my own profile when I went out on my own. And I found myself doing a lot of system center configuration stuff. So system center configuration management and I got nominated. So two different people nominated me and I was accepted. And it was funny because when I got the notification that I was accepted, I stopped doing all the desktop management stuff. And I'd moved exclusively into server stuff, particularly virtualization. And I'd made a decision that I wanted to find a technology that was emerging and wasn't yet established. And the established virtualization platform out there was VMware. So I was like, I wanted something new. So what did I jump on? I jumped on Hyper-V. And realistically, because of my system center background, Hyper-V was a natural fit at the time because I liked how it integrated with the system center vision. And I was a real advocate for what system center was capable of doing at the time. So I jumped on Hyper-V and I was using it in a startup posting company. So I was finding all the problems and I was trying to solve them. And I was sharing what I was learning and it was a small community, particularly in Europe, because VMware had basically taken over America. Because America had jumped on virtualization before Europe had. And VMware was the only player, really. It was some other stuff, but VMware were the only player. But when virtualization took off in Europe, Microsoft had something. It wasn't great, but it was good enough for a lot of us. And it got there by the time 2012 came around, particularly 2012 or two. But I started writing and blogging. And then I asked, we moved into the Hyper-V expertise area based on my content and I was accepted in. And that's a great group. They're still there to not call Hyper-V anymore. Haven't been called Hyper-V in a long time. But they think of themselves as the Hyper-V people. And there's related technologies that that group would have close contacts with. So, for example, ARC, so Azure ARC for the hybrid stuff and the file services and the file over clustering guys. So all together kind of make a tight unit for the on-premise alternative or extension to Azure today. So I was in there and I wrote books. So I've done, I've been a part of five books, really one of those I did be in trust of. And I handed over to the other guys who knew the stuff better than me. But I did two Hyper-V books and one of them, which was the 2012 or two book, we were really chuffed with that. And I think the best compliment we got was from one of the senior PMs of Hyper-V. You said, you know, I get given all these Hyper-V books and they never look at any of them. Because I can't just come out and say, I like this one or I don't like that one or whatever. I can't be seen to do that. But I was bored one day and your book just happened. I was sitting on the kitchen table and I opened up a randomly landed on this networking chapter, which was like nearly 100 pages long. And I read the 100 pages and I thought, I don't know that. That's really cool. And he said, I actually reached out to one of my junior PMs and said, buy a bunch of these books for all our new employees to come into the team. And that's what they did. And she actually left that comment on the review of the book on Amazon. That's awesome. You know, that's a touchdown right there. So I was I was delighted with that. And then my work changed. My day job impacts what I do on my community stuff. I'm one of these people. I have to be working with it to be able to talk about it. I can't just say I'm going to submit a session and then I'll learn about it for the session because I won't know the content and I won't be comfortable on the stage or in front of a camera or whatever it is. I wish more people would follow that practice. But yes, especially in the era of AI and co-pilot, I wish people would take that to heart. Yeah. And it's one of the things like I've put together a session on how to deliver better technical sessions. And it's one of the things I try to say to people is in theory, anyone can be a presenter. You talk about something you know about and you enjoy working with. And you've you've learned the basics and you know a couple of really advanced things that you'd like to share a couple of cool tricks. You can present that thing. And that's the approach I like to take is I like to know something and then I present on it. And of course, my day job changed when Microsoft Ireland once again impacted my life, came into my employer and at the time I was working in distribution. So as my job was, I was technical sales lead for a distributor here in Ireland, who sells to 70% of the partner market here in Ireland. They dominate the market. And Microsoft Ireland came in and said, right, we need Aiden to stop talking about Windows Server, Hyper-V and System Center. Now we need them to start talking about Azure. We need them to take the lead with the partners and get them to start doing Azure work. Yeah. And I say, oh boy, I haven't even ever signed into Azure at this point. This is the first day of January after the Christmas break. And I say, oh boy, this is going to be fun. So after the meeting, I talked to my boss and I was like, right, I need to start talking about Azure. So after the meeting, I talked to my boss and I was like, right, I need an Azure subscription or something. I think that's what I need. I think that's what it's called. I need to sign in and start learning this thing. And that's what I did. I started building out. I just thought, what's the best thing to build here? Well, on the RDP farm, it seemed like the best thing to build. So I built all the bits that the main controllers, the RDP servers, the gateway access servers and all that stuff, built it all up, got the thing working. And I was like, okay, I've learned some stuff here. I've learned some networking. I've never been the networking guy before. I knew what I needed. But on-prem, I was the server guy. And the systems management guy was never the networking guy. But I've had to build the networking myself because it's the self-service environment. That was kind of cool. And it's like, I learned and I learned and I learned. And I focused at that time in that job, I focused on the small, medium business market. The technologies that I thought they would adopt straight away. So I focused on the hybrid stuff like backup and site recovery, which turned out they weren't interested in site recovery backup they loved. And then I always had VMs and the infrastructure stuff, taking point solutions, moving them to the cloud and looking at RDS and stuff like that. And that's what I kind of built upon. And then five years ago last week, I changed jobs. I moved from that Irish company to a Nordic. And so for people who don't know Nordic, it is Finland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway. So the company I work for is headquartered out of Finland. But I work for the Norwegian branch. And I travel there once, maybe twice a year. It was once last year. All my work is on teams and Visual Studio Code and the Azure portal. And I work from here in Ireland. And it's basically I work with mid to large customers, government customers, doing, as I said earlier, usually the messy migrations. And I've become kind of the networking guy. So a lot of my community stuff lately has been networking. That's what I was going to ask. It's like, what are you writing about talking about right now? Azure networking is kind of because I do a lot of it. When you're doing migrations, a lot of your effort tends to be around IaaS. So there's a lot of VMs. But I also have customers who basically I had one government customer said, we're banning IaaS, which I always laugh at because they always end up meeting VMs, even to support their PaaS stuff. And the last customer I spent a year and a half working with were primarily going PaaS, but they wanted everything secure. And then usually our sales pitch is coming in doing governance and security. And security means taking things off the public front end and putting onto a network. So it's sitting behind, whether it's a network firewall or a web application firewall and making those databases and those app services and all those other things private and only sharing what you need to share to the public and making sure everything's inspected and logged and governed and cost managed and all that stuff. So networking is a big part of that. And that's taking up a lot of my time. And that's what I've been writing about a lot lately. A lot of the presentations I do at conferences or user groups tend to be around networking, but I'm also trying to branch out beyond that. So we work lately. I've been spending some time looking at Azure Open AI. And yeah, that's interesting. I'm trying to find, especially trying to find a free time to give a look at that stuff. Yeah, good friend that's been pushing me to look into that stuff too. And look, I don't have the background as you know, I'm essentially, I'm a marketing guy. I've been in products, you know, most of my career, the second half of my career. But it's funny talking with a buddy who's huge in Azure and AI and has a startup that's an AI startup doing a lot of interesting things and starting to tell him about, you know, what I'd like to do with co-pilot, Christian, you don't need co-pilot for the stuff you're talking about. You know, the Azure AI stuff, you can go in and build this. Like you can, you can go in and you just need to go explore, just take half a day, go in, poke around. You will have something built by the afternoon. And so it's just finding half a day to go explore. That's what I don't have. I think it's a little more than a half day really. Yeah, like you'll spend countless hours just reading and then it's, you know, experimenting and finding where that doesn't work the way I thought it was going to and playing around what it is, you know, and experimenting and learning from failure is a big thing. And, you know, reinvention, you know, you've kind of alluded to it yourself in your own career. Reinvention is part of an IT career if you're going to be around a while. I'd say I've reinvented my career at least three times so far. You know, I started off as a developer on Unix. That was my education out of college. I was a C and a C++ developer. That had also done some cobalt and Pascal. But I was primarily a C developer. And I landed in a job working for an American corporation. It was Japanese owned. It wasn't corporate stuff, funny. You know, doing C on Unix. And then my project died. And accidentally I fell into the Windows world because I'd gone on some basic Windows training to port our code to Windows. And I was a product consultant for years, found myself unemployable. And realized while I'm in Windows world, I need to get myself employable. I became an MCSE. And those of us old enough remember what that used to mean. That was the rubber stamp on your resume saying you are worth a decent amount of money. So I had that and was working in a really interesting finance company. I mentioned earlier, building out and like rating all the global offices to the latest of everything. And I was leading the charge on that. And that was fun. And then I went through that virtualization transition. So I switched over from being this general Windows guy to I'm moving into this virtualization space and the systems management space become a community member and presenter and trainer and stuff like that. And then I had that fateful morning meeting with Microsoft Ireland where I was told I need to start working with Azure. So all the on-prem stuff was like all the Azure stuff that I used to talk down and say, you can't do that. The Americans are spying on us. Suddenly, no, they're not spying on us. It's spying. It's mostly true, yes. But what you don't know won't hurt you. So what last question for you? Because I always like the community side of things. So how are your community activities? What's happened in the community over in Ireland? Like your local community? Oh, local. It's not great for us. So there's not a whole lot that goes on here. So most of my contributions are either online or international. So I've bunch of things out there for this year. Waiting to hear back, you know how that is. There's always a batch of sessionize things that you do at the end of the year. Yeah. And most of them, the organizers never respond to it. And then you realize, well, that event just went by and then go back. It's like, I never got rejected. No, they're just still sitting there. Yeah. Yeah, you'll find a bunch of that. And a bunch of different online things pop up every now and then. So I've won that. I've been asked if I'll do. And it's actually from a local organization. So I do a few of those. There's a cool group out of UK and Ireland. MPPs who do this best of tech calendar thing. And so over the holiday period, they basically build up a catalog of content. So it's like having an advent calendar and come in and you open up their page and they have a bunch of links to different things that could be live sessions. It could literally varies from poetry to live sessions, blog posts, video recordings. You name it. Excuse me. Talking too long. So lots and lots of stuff. So I did that. I have a bunch of different things out there as well for this year. And that I'm hoping to hear back on some of them, the second half of the year. So one of them is actually in America. So it's the first time I feel comfortable in a few years going that far and to do community stuff because I have a young family. Yeah. I am. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. So I was there last year. And as you know, last year was crazy because it was all short notice. Right. Yeah, minimize and everyone scattered everywhere. And you know, with all that, I still tell people, I mean, I always tell, especially new MVPs coming on. I said, I think it is the number one perk of being MVP is participation in that because, you know, there are friendships and connections that you'll make that are invaluable to your career. Yeah, absolutely. And so just it's, it's not even about what the sessions are, what they're presenting. It's about the interaction. It's about people of hearing the questions. Like I didn't even think to ask that to the product teams and like, wow, what's that scenario? Who is that person? Like go have those conversations as well as with the product team. Yeah, I've, I've observed that. I've also observed the one where someone goes, why doesn't this work? And then someone over that side of the room goes, actually I figured I had to make that work. Let's chat. Yeah. And then there's the, like you said, there's the friendships you strike up with people from completely other parts of the world. Yeah. That if you met them in a hallway, you would never have a conversation with them. Yep. And you realize that you've common interests, you know, in work and then you find out, actually kind of get along or we have common interests outside of work or whatever it is. Like some of those people over the years, like I've had them at my wedding. And you know, there's some people, there's a guy who lives 20 minutes from here. I only ever see him at events. We usually meet up at the airport. Yeah. We end up traveling theirs, hanging out there, coming back again. Our lives here are totally different. I lived in Seattle for 12 years and same thing. I would see people, I would only see local people. I was like, you know, wife and kids in a life, you know, in a small town away from Redmond. But I would see them at events on the other part of the planet and be like, oh, hey, they live in town over. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny how it is like that. Another benefit as well of being at the MVP somewhat is getting to know the program managers who are people who take the feedback to the architects to build the products that we're using and getting to know these people outside of the sessions and having those contacts. Because it's interesting when they realize that you have valuable feedback and you can give it to them in a way that they can use because they have a very specific way of thinking and talking. Well, and that's a great point because it's also important to understand, for us to better understand what are the priorities of why they're structuring their go-to-market, their roadmap, because they're usually, you know, MVPs go to these things and we have like my list of things. Yeah. I want to be like, why are you not working on this? Why are you not solving this? Or I'm experiencing this issue that's been out there. It's been on the roadmap for two years. What's going on with this? And they'll tell you their priorities and their perspective. It just, again, that's the one. Yeah. It helps you put those things in perspective. Yeah. People don't realize that there's a limited amount of capacity that they have. And that was made clear to me. So back when I was a Hyper-V MVP, the storage and clustering guys used to invite a small number of us to a product planning session with them. So we would spend the day with them and we would put down our wish list. Big, giant whiteboard that wrapped around the room and our wish list would go up there. And then they say to, it was probably, depending on the year between eight and 15 of us in the room, and then they would go around to us and say, right, you each get to pick one thing from that list, that huge list that wraps around the room. This is the reality of our lives. We have a semester that we can develop in and we have to release code in. And we only have so many architects and so many developers. And there's a coordination cross product coordination. There's, I mean, there's so much. I mean, that's one, that's another thing. I mean, Microsoft is known for, you look at the competitive space. I mean, they've really been committed to over Microsoft's life of backwards compatibility of integration and cross solutions. And so again, it's not just a matter of why can't you go build that one little feature? Look, I'm happy to harp on those things too, but I don't want to see done. But again, it gives you that perspective. Yeah, and it's not easy. Like for those of us in the Azure space, particularly working on networking, one of the things we keep going back to them with, and I always laugh. I tell them, you know what's coming from me. I'm going to ask you about seeing all the effective roots at the subnet level, because I can only see them on the VM, Nick. And that's useless when I'm troubleshooting and they always go, you know, we know, we know. You do realize it's not that easy. I say to them, yeah, I know the problems. I know the complexities because I have a little T bit of understanding about what's happening behind the curtain. How this thing works under the platform. And I can understand that we'd be crossing boundaries to make that work with boundaries we shouldn't be crossing as tenants in a multi-tenant cloud. But we got to figure something out. Because everyone's hurting. And, you know, I'm able to accept that they can't just throw that out for us. But you've seen it yourself. It's amazing when you say, you know, I have this idea and I think it would make this better. And then three months, six months, 12 months, whatever it is later, you see your feature. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, having that moment where you just go, that's mine. I remember one release a window. I'm just always happy. One of the features everyone talked about, Adam, it's mine. I'm, it's, yeah, I mean, it's one thing to, I get this all the time with where you see something that was explained from Microsoft Outwards like, hey, that, I could see how that resolves the scenario or something to the customer. But, you know, I get just as much satisfaction taking the other direction and working with the Microsoft people say, let me tell you this customer scenario. Like, oh, I didn't, you know, they're having that eye opening. I didn't think of that. I didn't see that before. That's one of those things where I'm constantly tell customers, partners, especially MVPs, you can't be quiet about sharing that information. You can't just assume that three or four other MVPs have shared that idea with them. Like get, make sure you report that feedback back and they take that stuff into account. And certainly when there's a groundswell around a feature around that. It has to be weight. It has to be weight. You can't just be interesting. Right. And because interesting means it ends up low on the stack rank. Right. Because as you said earlier, they've a list like this long of things that people have asked for and they'll say, yeah, there are things that are valuable and should be on the list. But they can only work on those top few things. Right. And if you want to move your thing up the list, it has to be a groundswell of feedback for it. Now that doesn't always work because sometimes it contradicts, you know, either that group's plans. Or even another group's plans. Yeah, there's, yeah. There was, there was a, I talk about this once in a while. There's funny in business school. We learned about, again, it was like a product management focus course where we learned about something called the house of quality. And it's like, it's a template. It was created like 30 years ago, 40 years ago, whatever, maybe, maybe even earlier than that. But it was just a way of looking at you've got your list of the features and you can prioritize them however you want. Then there's the effort it takes to go and do the complexity of that. Then there's the, you know, customer demands, money, dollars behind it, all those things. But when you overlay all of those different pieces, your priorities are often not what you thought. There are things which have a seemingly lower rate of return, yet quick turnaround was zero to low cost to do, get those things out. It moves things forward. Other things which just, you know, take, take longer. Anyway, looking at that, it's just again, I keep using the word perspective. I feel like Kamala Harris, like keeping reusing the same word over and over again. But, you know, again, having that perspective of here's what, here's what goes into the decisions that are being made. Having those conversations. I think going back to Summit, that's where I feel the most, not that I don't feel heard elsewhere and other things like we just had our, we had a call yesterday with the MVPs and the M365 category. And everybody had a chance to ask questions. There were those empty moments where no one was raising their hand. No one was speaking up kind of thing. So everybody had an opportunity. But I feel so much more heard at those sessions where you literally after a session's going on, follow the product team out in the hall where you have another side conversation. You're sharing contact information. You're like, let's schedule a call. Let's go through this in detail. I mean, again, that kind of stuff, it's not that it doesn't happen when we're all remote. It just when you can put a face with the name, it moves faster. It just doesn't. Absolutely. It does. And you'll find, certainly at least I have anyway, if you're able to give them interesting information, they want to come back to you. And it could be even a year down the road where they have something they want to talk about, and they want feedback on it, and they will reach out to you and go, hey, we've got something interesting that we're thinking about doing. We'd like your opinion on it. I've had a few of those calls over the years, which is kind of cool. And it's also interesting as well from your, I bet you've probably had this experience where you're having a technical challenge and you're getting nowhere with support. You just reach out to a relevant person. That never happens. Whoa. What happened to know the person who owns that feature? I'll just reach out to them to see if they can, you know, shake the tree a little for me. I tell you what I miss. So for a few years, I had an office on campus. So I worked for this ISV. Oh yeah. And it was part of that was a purple badge. And so there was the Microsoft technology that, what was it? It was the, can't remember the name of the building now. I think it was building 26. Anyway, so right on main campus over in the corner, we were in the same one that the green badge, the, the MSNBC folks that were in that helped support that, whatever. Anyway, I had an office that I shared with another ISV vendor on there, but that purple badge. So I could, if I had a question for the product team, I could literally go and look at the product team person that I've been trying to track down. Oh, they're in a meeting in this building and I could go sit outside that meeting and wait for them to exit. And walk with them to their next meeting and have a conversation. Now there's a reason of that, that kind of stalking and, you know, I get why Microsoft shut all that down. It was fantastic while it lasted. Yeah. So it's great for that. One of the things I like to do as well now, I did it last year and I'll be doing it again this year is reach out to some of the PM's in advance and say, you know what? I'm going to be around. I know there are sessions on for the three days or whatever, but I'll make myself available if you're interested in having a chat. Yeah. Because the chat that I have with you will be more interesting than the session and reality is my colleague who's the same expertise as me is probably going to be sitting in that session. He'll tell me if there's anything interesting I should know about anyway. A lot of Microsoft, the product team people, they make themselves available during the week for exactly those kinds of things. Yeah. They travel for us. None of them live in Redmond anymore. Not anywhere near Redmond. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. It's changed a lot. Well, they travel there for us. I know. It's in a lot of them. Unfortunately, it's sad. There's a lot of faces that were of all those events. But when pandemic and when the rules changed, they were allowed to move away. I mean two of my best friends, the space that worked for Microsoft are both down in Arizona now and both of them say it's like, yeah, I don't have the budget. I'm not on the list that's being flown back up. So it's sad you don't see all the faces, but of course they're happier living in a different place. Yeah. It doesn't rain three hundred days a year. I don't mind that so much. I fit in. I miss that. But my wife does not miss that. Well, Aida, I really appreciate your time and great connecting. And maybe doubtful we'll see each other at the MVP summit. I think we're running in different circles there. Yeah. You never know. Yeah. There's always some of the social stuff that's happening. Yeah. There's a lot of paths across there. Yep. Well, thanks so much for your time. And for folks that want to reach out to you, where are you the most social? Where can people find you? So on Twitter, I'm at Joe underscore Elway. And yes, that is football related. So go Niners. Born and raised a San Francisco 49er fan. I, where we're probably moving to Texas in the next year. And I told some friends from Texas. I'm like, you know, I can't ever like the Cowboys. I'm, I'm built. Niners Cowboys. We're designed to beat them in the playoffs every year. I'm going nine or gang. Yeah. So yeah, at Joe underscore Elway on Twitter. I'm on LinkedIn as well. So you search for eight and fans as AID, A N F I N N. You'll find me on LinkedIn. Of course I blog on Aiden Finn.com. So I'm not that hard to find. Excellent. Well, we'll have all the links, of course, out in the blog, the podcast and out on the, on YouTube as well, where the video will be. So, well, thanks so much for your time, Aiden. No problem. Good job.