 So, welcome back to this session on animal ethics. Now, let us consider some of the criticisms against a singer's idea on animal ethics. Some of these criticism and critiques are of the opinion that animals do not have a language, they do not express their pain as we human beings express our pain. So, therefore, there is no problem in inflicting pain on them. This is indeed weak argument of the critics. And the other point that the critics maintain is that the market is not sensitive to individuals purchasing decisions. So, as I was giving an example of my own self that suppose I become a vegetarian from tomorrow onwards, then that is not going to have an impact on the market. But a singer responds to this idea of market not being sensitive to individual purchasing decision is that if gone mobilizing people, gone educating people and very actively involved in representing it in various forums possibly that will have impact on the market. So, these are the two things. The other point whether animals do have do feel pain or not, singers argues that in most of the cases where the nerve of a adult is damaged and she does not feel pain or in the case of infant, they do not express in the way and we express a full-fledged. So, is it then that they should be inflicted pain? So, these are the two criticisms which I consider the weak argument against animal ethics has to be considered. Then the next strong argument that can animals be killed if their living condition is better or they do not feel pain. The argument is that suppose we improve upon our genetic engineering and helps raising animals intensively, then does that justify our killing? That is an argument one needs to think upon. Then one of the proponent of this called Tom Reagan believes that this full idea of utilitarian approach to animal ethics is not very healthy approach, not very sound the thesis. So, therefore, we need to not consider the concept of utility alone as a very important feature of our decisions. So, our decisions could be made over and above if we recognize the value of something beyond what kind of utility it provides to us. So, therefore, it is important for all of us that we recognize the value of an entity or a value of a person or a value of other non-human beings over and above what kind of utility they provide to all of us. So, that is the thing which we need to take into account. Now, both Reagan and Singer argue their thesis from a constant perspective. You may recollect that yesterday's discussion where Kant, we had criticized Kant on this that Kant had given emphasis on human values so much that there is less position on, he had taken a very mild position on animal ethics, the value of animals. But Kant has been reinterpreted by Singer as well as Reagan stating that why we should value life because very interesting point which is raised by both of them is that life at least at a certain level of complexity deserves respect. This is what is important, whether you feel pain or not, whether you are capable enough to express articulate pain or not. Now, that is not the thing that we need to consider when we are interacting with other living organism. So, what is more important is that life as a whole, life as a concept needs to be considered seriously precisely because it is a complex concept and that deserves respect. So, the complexity of this concept is to be taken into account when we respect another life. This respect is to regardless of how many people recognize it or regardless of what kind of contribution it makes to the humanity. That is I think something very significant and a point which is raised by Singer. So, life matters to us irrespective of the fact that whether it contributes directly or indirectly to the humanity, to the growth of the humanity. So, it is in that context our preferences, our expectations, our feeling of hope and disappointment are to be taken into consideration that it is at par with the other forms of life. I would again reiterate this point, that point that I raised in connection with moral extensionism that the biotic community is a large community, it is a holistic community and therefore, the moral agent has to widen the scope of moral discourses in which every living and non-living becomes the part of it. And if you talk about the western ethical discourse, it is a discourse which is going on for last maybe more than 200 years or 300 years of where or if you can go back to Aristotle and Plato's, then they have this developed form of ethics because they have been constantly debating upon certain concepts what is valuable for humanity and what is valuable for the entire human society. The constant discourse, the constant engagement with this knowledge that that what is good, what is good for the humanity, what is good for the universe that has given birth to the idea of animal ethics, animal rights and maybe they will talk about more sophisticated concepts and they also take into account that this abolition of slavery and gender inequality has been abolished. Therefore, they also take into consideration that in future maybe more rigorously, animal rights will be practiced. These are the evidences, markers in the history of ethical discourse when it comes to the success and the success story of moral extensionism. Now, the duties to the endangered species is that an adequate ethics for preserving a species requires a more unprecedented mix of biological science and ethics. Yesterday, I also pointed out this that our approach should be both scientific as well as philosophical approach and then only we will be able to grow up to face the present challenges as well as we will have something with us to respond to the future challenges as well. So, it is in that context we need to have a critical inquiry on these issues and that will be a synthesis of the biological for more generally speaking, the scientific approach and the ethical approach with an ethical concern will be more enlightening to all of us. Then, one point which was not taken into account whether are there no direct duties endangered species. Now, we need to protect them and preserve their species which are this is a sentimental issue. There is no rationality here. We have to protect them. Suppose, they are becoming extinct day by day. So, it is more of a sentimental and emotional issue that is binding us because that will generate why emotional and the sentimental attitude would work better because that will create a deeper sense of obligation to them not the rational argument because for most of us or at this level, we may not have a pure scientific account that this is causing what the haircut effect of what is causing what. But if you are emotionally associated with or a case to other beings who are disappearing from the universe then probably that will help us forming a deeper sense of obligation towards the other biotic beings. Say for example, one example could be stated like this that who knows say suppose there are a lot of cases of kidney transplantations and there are a lot of things are happening, corruptions are happening various level. Somebody who discovers say tomorrow somebody comes out with a thesis that popfaces will be very important for kidney cure then possibly people will try to preserve the popfaces is not it. So, therefore, to understand the medicinal value to a ignorant of many things. So, to understand the medicinal value of particular entity is something becomes the reason why we should protect the wilderness, why we should be protective always in our attitude. So, who knows what will give us good or what is good and what is bad. So, if our approach is critical, if our approach is scientific and our scientific approach also involves a sense of ethics then we ready always to face the challenges that are upcoming. There is like the analogy is that being ignorant is not a solution one has to be an informed citizen. So, a citizen that I was talking about must be an informed citizen. The informed or a citizen is that he will not act as an ignorant person. Suppose the analogy is this in case we find that you start destroying species is like tearing the pages out of an unread book. You have not read what is there inside the book. There may be something valuable written, but if you tear it, tear its pages then it is not really solving any problem. So, written in a language of human hardly know how to read about the place where they leave. No sensible person would destroy risotta, stone or tigers, rhinoceros or vulture. These are the things which I have added on that. So, it is very important that we have a very positive attitude and we educate our people, we educate the entire community to have a very positive attitude towards the other non-human beings. One of the pragmatic concern is this that human need insight into the full text of ecosystem evolution. Then it is not endangered species, but an endangered human future that is of our concern. So, this is a point which one of the participants pointed out yesterday that it is not global warming, but it is we are warmed to a kind of a situation or it is a kind of an alarming situation that in which we all live and our future is at stake. Therefore, all our approach has to be pragmatic. Then one point which I would again like to repeat here is that when we change our approach, we must also see that all species have intrinsic value, not that only humans who have the valuing ability has got an intrinsic value and others have only instrumental values in the sense that they are existing to fulfill human needs and desires, but their existence itself has to be meaningfully seen from the point of view that they have got some value in itself. Their existence is something valuable. So, therefore, all species have got intrinsic value. So, valuing specification directly however, seems to attach value to the evolutionary process, not merely to the subjective experiences that arises when human reflect over them. So, it is not our subjective attitude of valuing that that matters, but that subjective attitude must transform us in a direction in which we ascribe values, intrinsic values to the other non-human beings. Then only we will be able to formulate a better ethics towards the animal. Then what kind of ethics was the point which was raised? I think this is the point which you please take into account that the ethics has always been about partners with entwined destinies, but it has never been very convincing when pleaded as enlightened self-interest. Therefore, including the class self-interest, even though the practice genuinely altruistic ethics often needs to be reinforced by self-interest. So, most of the time this whole idea of self-interest ought to be done is becoming more egocentric. More our approach is egoless is better, but if you becoming more self-interested and egoistic in our approach, then that is not going to solve or prepare ourselves to resolve the ethical dilemmas, the ethical issues that we face in our day-to-day life. What humans have learned so far? The humans have learned some interest specific altruism. We have learned so far if you look at the history. This is Peter Singer is making a very interesting claim here that we have at least understood significantly that we should have an altruistic attitude, not a egoistic attitude, not a very selfish attitude, but altruistic attitude towards our fellow beings, towards other human. That is how the gender equality, that is how we talk about evolution of slavery, but we need to be inter-specific now. So, if that inter-specific altruism has to be practiced so that we transcend. I was talking about how such an utopia, an idealistic vision of ethics requires a transcendental approach or carries with it a notion of transcendence. So, therefore, an inter-specific altruism if at all to be practiced, then we should transcend the inter-specific altruism attitude and go to practice the inter-specific altruistic attitudes. There is a principle. In principle, we have to cultivate a deeper sense of responsibility towards all biotic beings. It is not by prudence that one has to be altruistic. In principle, I am obliged to other. In principle, I have some duty towards other. And in principle, I am accountable to what I am doing or what I am performing or what we are performing quote-unquote, what we are performing, what is our response to the entire community, the entire universe. That is something in principle we have to take up, not by virtue of the prudence that it is necessary. So, N.G.V.S, Catholic College. Good morning, sir. Good morning, good morning. So, I have two questions. So, first one is, man is made in the image of God. Then why different people have different ethical values? Another question. So, in your title, cruelty to animals, animals have used our research for product testing. Yes, yes. So, without using animals, how can we find new medicines to cure the latest diseases? Man is made in the image of God is actually a kind of a statement which is taken from the Genesis. So, therefore, look at this. So, there are different religions advocated different ethics. Since the animal ethics has been very systematically argued in the western world and that is where there is a reference to their religion. That is not actually blocking us to talk about animal ethics here. Rather, what is important for us is this, that we must perceive a kind of an ethical attitude which is common to all. So, there are universal elements which we can articulate, which all religious communities can articulate to talk about humanities. How humanity will flourish? Then if that is the question, if that is our moral concern, then we will find that there are certain common elements which are present in all religions. And that is the I think the virtue of religious ethics that there is some commonality. And if the commonalities are given importance for human flourishing, then obviously, we can think in the line of a universal environmental ethics and universal human ethics as well. So, that is the response to your first question. Now, the second question that how we can have an alternative means to test our products like particularly the drugs or the medicinal value of a particular entity. Now, as I pointed out that in many countries, if you look at very closely in many third world countries which are very deeply poverty ridden states countries. So, in those states these drugs are also tested on human beings. So, forget about animals. So, we are leaving in a society, in a consumeristic society where we have nullified the very existence of other humans. So, what I am trying to suggest that there are alternative ways to talk about medicines. There are alternative way to think of a kind of a harmony which should coexist between the animal kingdom and the human kingdom. So, they belong to one space, they belong to one community that is biotic community. So, unnecessarily if you testing is one example only, but if you look at the slaughtering houses if you the way there are many such things are available in YouTube, I mean the way the cruelty is been inflicted on animals for various purposes is a very painful. So, I think this is this is my response. Yes. You were ever told that about the purchase value, usage value, esteem value and aesthetic value of the product. Should we now consider the environmental value of the product as well, sir? If somebody talks about why we should value, we should have, we should value the human life because humans are not only rational, but also have aesthetic value, but also have some kind of a moral morality in them, moral attitude in them and so therefore humans are valuable compared to the other spaces. Now, when we buy something we must also or when we take a decision say for example, when we try to create a dam, we only look at its economic values for how much energy it will supply, how many people will be benefited, what how many employment it will generate. So, in quantitative terms we try to make a estimation of something only in economic terms, but how many spaces will be affected, what will be its effect on flora and fauna of that particular region that has not been taken into account. So, the other participants in a some other institution were talking about how a particular now area is then encroached gradually, national park was encroached by gradually. So, if you look at that then we are not really considering things from an ethical point of view or moral point of view. So, that is my. So, there is a cost involved in it and it can be it cannot be replaced by money. Are you ready? Good morning, sir. Sir, nice lecture from you. Thank you. Again a little query that about ethics everyone knows that now what is to be like don't cut the trees or like don't do the pollution. Yes. But again the thing is that how far we are successful to make this in our life even if we know we don't do it in every practice it can be seen. So, how it can be inculcated into the students or the society these things. Now everywhere we can take the examples. How successful we are in cultivating a good moral attitude in our everyday life. One can only realize it at a personal level and if more people become say for example, now I will give an example of this such a far the mission and which we are aware of right now. Now this mission is for ourselves is not it. Suppose a particular colony you know the residents of a particular colony try to implement it. They want to make it a better place to live. They suddenly become aware of several environmental issues that are related with the health and the quality life and they awake to that and collectively do it. Of course it will have a greater impact is not it and seeing that you all are doing maybe your neighborhood in your neighborhood some people will be influenced to do that in the way you have done it maybe much better than what you have done it. So, we should inspire each other and that is the motto what kind of satisfaction it will bring whether it will that is that is something one we have to realize. Did I respond to your point. Thank you sir. Welcome. Yes please carry on you have any question. Good morning sir. Good morning, good morning. Sir it was a nice lecture, it was nice hearing you and on the basis of the workshop that we have attended we have prepared a small model that we would like to show you. Okay please do so. Oh beautiful it is. Hello. Very nice. No good morning sir. Very nice. This is a small effort taken from us that I am just showing the various systems that is water harvesting system then purification system filtration and the biogas plant as well as the bicycle operated water pump. From these we can have a save the resources and it's a great that from different different sessions we can learn different different things that very useful for our next generation. Sir my simple message is from this model that is if we focus on the villagers that they have the simple living and they don't have use of lot of they don't have the big buildings and etc etc but they are living naturally from this globe or the this property I can see that please save the resources and save the environment. Thank you sir. Very nice. I appreciate this. All very nice sessions we had from your IIT Bombay till date and we had learnt a lot definitely but now so far the question of ethics comes as so many of you already have questioned you that how will this be possible in the real life to build the ethics so my personal experience actually I don't want to question whether my experience I would like to share with you that if you want to really change the environment one has to make changes in himself and he already knows what is right and what is wrong but still many a times it is not in his control so best way is if he want to transform himself he wants to change his mind so best way is he should meditate daily and this is what I do and I had seen changes in myself and so I pass on this message to all the viewers that this is a very good way in which we can change our mind and it will help a society to change a lot and this is the right and the ultimate solution which I have experienced for my life. Thank you so this whole idea of now becoming a source of change is something we should think upon one is that how collectively we can be the source of change individually it is possible to have some kind of a freedom autonomy and that we try to implement in our daily life within a very small institutional level or in a small family level but when it comes to the societal level we require a common source so therefore community has to be empowered now like the model that you had shown the model represents that how we can think for collective well-being how we can think for a model where everyone will be benefited all villagers will be benefited now this is a noble idea is not it so and once we have that solidarity and represent that this solidarity is not a fragile solidarity is not it I was talking about connectedness and solidarity okay now this solidarity is based upon certain values certain kind of principles where all villagers are benefited okay so this is not and that is that is something I think which is meaningful and that which I foresee in this model so I appreciate you know you are concerned so individual may be a kind of a small unit when it comes to change at a very at a very family level or an institutional in a small institutional level but in a collective level if you would like to have impact then this kind of vision is necessary and that vision has to be translated to into action hello sir yes sir what are the applied ethics to be followed by engineering student and teacher sir please sir applied engineering ethics is a separate discipline see here that is an also branch of applied ethics applied ethics has many branches like I was talking about medicine environment engineering all are nowadays treated as an independent you know discipline and they have their focus area is different environmental ethics is one of the applied areas of ethics now our job is as a teacher as a communicator our job is to educate to communicate right ideas to right persons right person in the sense that our students are the right person they are the they are they will be the main functionaries of future generations now if we are successful in communicating good ideas implanting good ideas in them then they will take care of the future world so a good engineer similarly will have to take good decisions when building say a plant or a building a bridge so suppose somebody is trusted now look at the engineering ethics suppose you are assigned to test one you know a bridge which is a which is a connecting bridge from one village to another village now if you go on and test that and you know that there are some now fault materials are being used there is some fault with the construction but you take bribe and say that yes this is right rightly built no problem with the bridge then your certification matters because you are a enlightened person you are an enlightened citizen good engineer so people will definitely know except your judgment but when it comes to your moral concern you have actually taken a very bad decision so engineering ethics is a separate discipline like environmental ethics and they all come under a big umbrella discipline called ethics good morning sir very nice and interactive sessions so my question is related animal ethics and human ethics okay so sometimes to follow or maintain animal ethics the human ethics are not considered so for example the animals and the pets are using in the advertisements and movies so the people who are using these animals they are taking care of all the things and providing facilities to animals yes but some organizations working for animals have objection on that yes so they are not considered the facilities provided to the animals correct so it's against the human ethics they are manipulating the data and all things true related the animals yes so please comment I have the serious concern as you have that there we don't really we use them as a means of our earnings when the certain some pets are being used then we are using them as a means we are earning we deny their intrinsic value theoretically speaking we deny their intrinsic value suppose somebody uses his children to earn money will that be allowed that is not certainly allowed it is not ethically correct so similarly if you have a pet and that has to be used as a kind of a means to earn our livelihood then that is not something ethically correct so there is there are you know groups voluntary organization who are working for them for their rights and I think that's a good thing to be practiced hello yes good morning sir good morning is animal ethics telling us to become a vegetarian yes so far this bitter singer is concerned I mean if you look at the western societies he comes from an American society now if you look at the western society and the kind of consumerism their habits are completely different from our habits okay so they certainly but they certainly advocate vegetarianism and see if you if you go to youtube and there are many short films are there look at them you will find that how badly these animals are being treated and how cruel we are in inflicting pain on them and there are there are slaughtering houses and the living condition of the animal is really very very bad so seeing all these once you see all these you will in fact really prefer to become a vegetarian rather than non-vegetarian so that is that's my ori actually good morning sir good morning sir all your sessions were really thought provoking sir my question is we have studied about different courts of ethics sir are the different courts of ethics nationally or internationally certified whether they are internationally certified or not is not our basic concern our basic concern is that whether such a code can be formed which will do good to the entire humanity that's the proposal actually so when we talk about animal ethics or when we talk about environmental ethics we need to see that the the kind of damage that we have made to environment is a very serious damage and that has to be restricted that has to be controlled okay or minimized now how it can be minimized it can be minimized if we take we as the humanity take appropriate extension to account it is not that only Mumbai curse have to become you know enlightened on ethics or Indians or Americans or Chinese or Japanese all of us together as a society has to respond to environmental crisis and that is actually making environmental issues international is not it is making it a global issue it is a global problem and we are no more as I as I mentioned in my last lecture yesterday that we are global citizens we are you are not just a citizen of India you are also a citizen of the world is not it you are connected to the world so if at all we are practicing the value of a global citizenship then we need to see environmental issues more holistically and more globally that way I would like to support that yes it justifies an international what you called certification it requires an international certificate hello sir good day sir hello hello sir we have one question oh please we are teaching environmental studies subject for adults and students for the engineer students yes the undergrad students because the honorable supreme court ordered that this subject should be taught to all undergrads yes right but while teaching the ethics we realize that these students are not ready to accept all these ethics and second thing we realized that these ethics should be taught to kindergarten students not to these grade students they are not ready to accept but kindergarten students they are ready to follow all these ethics and that is the thing that thing I observed after teaching the subject for last three years sir any suggestion from your side I have a suggestion of course I know good people to suggest the the idea here is that students when they enter to college or students who are given college level education I am surprised that they are not accepting any suggestions and I mean I am also not surprised to this fact that if you if you say that some of them have not taken your suggestions I will agree with that but at least few of them would agree to whatever you suggest and I think that has to be taken very seriously that those students have to be taken seriously because in in society we live in a society where most of us are not bothered about what is happening so how can we expect that if somebody is giving a good instruction about the future about a safe life or a healthy life or a quality life or a meaningful life so on these topics if somebody is saying something then obviously people will not listen some people will not listen but all people are not listening is a dangerous thing that is a very shocking news because I do teach to many of the students here and I find that you know most of them take it very seriously in our institute so if they are not taking then it is not a fine situation but the point that we as a teacher should cultivate that we as a teacher should keep on telling the the good story to the to the students so that one day somebody will turn their ear and listen to you carefully non-listening is not our problem not listening is their problem so we should create a situation where they should turn their ears to you and see what is valuable what this teacher is saying in regarding students are not the student they do not they accept it whatever you tell to your child they will accept it okay they do not think rationally but certainly the college going students will think rationally okay so that is the point good morning sir good morning sir I have a question on environmental protection for domestic animals roaming in cities okay sir is there any law or act for the prevention of domestic animals roaming in street as these animals move freely in municipal areas and highways they create inconvenience to the traffic as well as sometimes meet with accidents yes and hence pollute the environment is there any rules or protection acts for them is there anything we can do for them there are there are rules but these rules are not followed rules are there these rules are not seriously followed but there are protection rules for certain domestic animals who freely move in the city areas and the municipal authority or some authority should implement this rule most strictly but the problem lies there with the implementation of rules how strictly we are following rules making rules is easy but following rules is difficult and we have the habit of ignoring rules not following it so and that is our that is why now this innocent animals become victims you know innocent animals keep roaming on the street okay without any fear they are innocent of course they do not know what is a threat to them they hardly can guess so they become the victim of that but what is important for all of us that we should we as an enlightened citizen should create a kind of a movement where the implementation rule is taken very seriously sir we are making lots of rule and regulations starting from water arc to battery and plastic act etc yes but is it practically these are implemented in the real fields because once you go to any heavy industry we can observe that lots of volatile organic pollutants are there and even if you stay for 30 minutes there is some symptom health hazard symptoms also arises the point is when we suppose as a household forget about the industry and you know those who are polluting at a household level for many years we do not have the habit of segregating separating this waste the food waste the weight waste and the dry plastic kind of waste materials we do not segregate everything becomes you know one I mean everything goes in one packet all waste are not hazard as some waste are really hazard as it is not it but in at a household level at least we have the duty to do that now unless certain things are told or come as a kind of a law with a punishment in the background we do not follow it so the problem is that how much we are aware of things what causes what and how the same action will indirectly cause harm to our life if not my life but somebody else like the rag pickers will also be a victim of certain things is not it but I do not relate myself to the rag pickers I do not relate myself to the person who takes my waste collects my waste from my household now unless I relate those things we cannot have a complete sense of ethics working in our society that's the message so namaskar I have a question sir we are we are proud to proud for our main culture in our culture what are the ethics are written these are there related to environment in our culture there are so many ethics I don't know which one is not ethical culture itself is a kind of a you know a value system all culture defined there what is right and what is wrong so I think in Indian culture if you look at I was giving an example of compassion law etc which is a source of connecting oneself with other and and that has been very seriously practiced in Buddhism very seriously been you know expressed in Bhagavad Gita the culture that we represent have enormous ideas which can be borrowed and you know link to our everyday life answer my question is in environmental ethics what are the three modes of responsibility the three modes of responsibility is collective responsibility so far I was talking about intra altruism and inter altruism so far I mean if you talk about enlightened societies like us we have been practicing ethical values which is only beneficial for the humanity for human beings so we have been expressing our altruistic attitude in which responsibility is one of the elements only when our engagement with other human beings we need to talk about we need to expand we need to enlarge the scope of morality and see that not only the human beings are included and we are not only interacting with human beings but also are interacting with other biotic beings so other biotic beings are to be taken as moral subjects and I have responsibility towards them as well towards the other beings other non-human beings so this is a in fact you know a higher sense of responsibility which I was talking about in connection with a inter altruism rather than an intra altruism thank you all