 We all may need to improvise if things don't get going soon, but we've got a few things that we can get through before we really need to be able to see the monitors. So with that said, the commission is made up of volunteers with expertise or interest in historic preservation and design. We generally meet on the second Thursday of the month to review cases. Staff to the commission are urban design and historic preservation staff. They are available to answer questions if you have them. But please do not interrupt proceedings if you do indeed need to speak with one of them. The meeting generally proceeds with the staff calling the case and describing it. Excuse me. I will call for the applicant to come forward afterward to add to the basic description of the request if necessary or if the applicant wishes to do so. If so, the applicant should keep the presentation to ten minutes or less. The commissioners will then have the opportunity to ask questions. At this point I will ask if there is anyone in the audience who wishes to speak for or against the proposal. Audience comments shall be kept to two minutes per person. If there is, the applicant will have an opportunity to respond and this rebuttal shall not exceed five minutes. In most of the cases, we will make a decision tonight after all information has been presented. If your case is denied or if you feel that our decision was made an error, you and anyone with standing have the opportunity to appeal it within 30 days of the decision. If you plan to speak about a specific project you must have signed in, the sheet is at the back of the room. Also, and so that members of the public understand, commissioners are under strict instructions to avoid discussing DDRC meetings and applications with members of the public or with each other outside of these proceedings to avoid ex parte communications. If you wish to speak during the course of these proceedings, please stand and raise your right hand. You affirm to tell the truth in these proceedings. Would staff please call the roll? Mr. Broom. Here. Mr. Cohn. Here. Ms. Johnson. Here. Ms. Moore. Here. Ms. Fuller-Wilt. Here. Mr. Sabry. Here. We have quorum. Great. Does the agenda still stand? The agenda still stands. Okay. While we are still IT free, let's move into the consent agenda. The DDRC utilizes a consent agenda for those projects which require DDRC review but which meet the guidelines that typically require no discussion. If anyone wishes to discuss an item on the consent agenda, I will ask that you speak up after the consent agenda is read and we can pull the item for discussion onto the regular agenda. So staff, please read the consent agenda. Certainly. The first item on the consent agenda is 1100-1102 Butler Street. This is a request for preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill in the Melrose Heights, Oakland Architectural Conservation District. The next case is 1722 Ennery Avenue, a request again for preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill but in Wales Garden Architectural Conservation District. Another preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill is 828 Gregg Street in the University Architectural Conservation District. And our fourth item is 819 Maple Street, a request for a Certificate of Design Approval for an Accessory Structure in the Old Chandon Lower Waverly Protection Area A. And last is 2150 Hardin Street, the Babcock Building. This is a request for a preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill and a Certificate of Design Approval for exterior changes to this individual landmark in the city and national register structure. Thank you. Is there anyone who wishes to take an item off the consent agenda for discussion? Seeing none, may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda and the August meeting minutes, please? Mr. Chairman, I'll make the motion that we approve the consent agenda and the August minutes. Did I have a second? All gone. Vote, please. Mr. Bram? Yes. Mr. Kahn? Yes. Ms. Johnson? Yes. Ms. Fuller-Wilt? Yes. Ms. Moore? Yes. Mr. Savery? Yes. Motion passes. Thanks. Could we have the first case, please? The first case on the agenda is 20 Governors Hill. This is a request for Certificate of Design Approval for a new construction of a single family home in the Governor's Hill Development, which is in the City Center Design Development District. This project was before the commission last month. And the staff recommendation, while the applicant has made some changes to the design, there are still some outstanding items. And the staff recommendation is to set up a subcommittee. And the applicant is supportive of that idea. So if the commission so desires to do that, we can just, I think the applicant's willing to skip over the presentation and go that direction. And is the applicant here? If you could just step to the microphone for me, please. State your name and confirm. Mad day to some of the architect of Record on the House. And if you could confirm that you'd like us to make that motion to move into the subcommittee, we can just go ahead and do that, start that process. Yes, we'd like to do that. Okay, thank you. So the only other thing that I need to do is to allow anybody who wishes to speak in support or opposition. But given the fact that we're going to make a motion to go into subcommittee, which will presumably change the design in question right now. My recommendation would be that those who had planned to speak for or against would wait until the applicant comes back after the subcommittee meeting. So at this point, is there, given that, is there anybody that would like to speak in support or opposition or just wait until the application comes back? And if I could, too, just make a clarification for the record that the subcommittee is especially called work session to discuss a case, but no action will be taken by the commission of the subcommittee. Direction will be provided to the applicant and the session will be advertised and open to the public, but public comments will not be heard at the subcommittee. Great, thanks. Okay, so given all of that, could I have a motion? That we defer approval of the request for a certificate of design approval for 20 Governors Hill pending the, pending a meeting of the subcommittee comprised of DDRC members to address any outstanding design items covered by sections 5.35.5 and 4.6. And that's also in light of the fact that the applicant himself has also requested that we hold this specially convened meeting of the subcommittee. Thank you. Could I have a second, please? Second. Any discussion? We have a vote, please. Mr. Barum. Yes. Mr. Cohn. Yes. Mr. Johnson. Yes. Do we have, do y'all have images? Maybe they're on the television. It looks like we might. Maybe y'all are going to get today. All right. No. We need to, we just got the CEO. We might need to come around and look at this screen. I guess I'll go ahead and introduce the case while we're figuring this out. This is 1103 to 1113 Lady Street and 1300 to 1304 Assembly Street. This is a request for certificate of design approval for a new construction of a six-story residential building in the city center design development district. This has apartments above parking on the first level and a restaurant on the corner. I'll just make a note that there are some existing buildings on the property, including the Mo Levi's building, which y'all are probably familiar with. They will be demolished as part of this proposal, but those buildings are not designated in the historic district or as individual landmarks. So that is not reviewed in this district. And I will not read through the whole evaluation as there is a lot of information here. However, I did just want to review the section that talks about EFIS as a building material just because that's going to probably be a part of the conversation today. And then I'll read the staff recommendation after that. So there are a number of materials proposed on the building. Two of the primary materials are EFIS, which is a synthetic stucco product and some metal panels. The consideration for any material, well, just as a note in the past, synthetic stucco has not generally been approved in city center as a primary building material. A lot of that was based on the historic problems that it had with water intrusion, but also generally the discussions have also been with the flatness just as hard coat stucco has had some discussion about that. So the consideration for any material, whether a new material which is not addressed in the guidelines or an exception to the generally discouraged materials listed in the guidelines, can take into consideration a number of factors such as whether the texture and detailing of the material contributes positively to the building's overall composition, whether the materials proposed application contributes positively to the surrounding context in the district, and whether the material is of a quality that will be durable over time so the building continues to contribute positively to the district. From a contextual standpoint, past concerns about stucco in general have included its relatively rare use as a primary siding material on large buildings in city center. Generally the recommendation has been to use stucco in limited quantities and not as a primary siding material. And while the durability of EFIS may be improved with new technology, these aesthetic and contextual considerations are still valid and should also be considered. If the commission finds EFIS to be an acceptable material in this application, staff request that a detailed motion be made to outline the parameters by which it is being considered so that it does not become a wholesale approval precedent for future projects. The other conditions upon which staff recommends approval of the project are as follows. That some architectural feature be provided to the lobby on the Lady Street facade that emphasizes the entrance, to provide more articulation to the assembly street ground floor mural wall, to provide more information about roof mounted utility equipment and screening, to provide details and specifications that demonstrate all window depths and storefront glass transparency, to provide dimensions of recesses and projections, to continue to work with staff on the pursuit of an encroachment for the assembly street tables and chairs, to add screen walls to the two bays of ground level parking on the north side adjacent to the assembly street sidewalk and all other details be deferred to staff. And the applicant is here to present the project, so I didn't want to go through all the details, but they'll walk through that for you. Okay, if the applicant wishes to present your name. Good afternoon, I'm Ben Arnold. And Ben, so you know what I'm going to have to do is we're looking at an image here, and I'm going to try to look up there and make sure we stick with it, so don't be distracted. I have with me Jason Letty, who's the architect of the record for the project. We're primarily here to answer some questions, but I did want to let the commission know that we went to extensive lengths to try to redevelop the existing buildings with three different plans of various restaurants and apartments in the existing structure and even a musically themed development that would have had an education component to it, and just we tried everything we could to work with the existing structure and we do respect the family that has been there. So I just want to state that up front. Sorry, I'm sorry. Whoa, I feel like I'm in concert now. Anyway, so after that we have looked at various iterations of buildings. Our intent was to develop a 12 story type one construction multifamily over one restaurant. That was not feasible, so we went back to the drawing board and came up with a nine story metal stud structure. That didn't work, so now we're at a six story structure, but we did take the commission or the staff's recommendations on glass to the extent we could. We went to a lot of effort to find windows that look like storefront that are still cost effective for this type of structure and we added a lot of glass on the bottom floor and we're also trying to add some activity on the street. Previously, one of these iterations, we had an ordinance passed to put tables and chairs on the street when we had six restaurants. Six restaurants was overdoing it and wasn't physically possible due to the slope of the Howard's building and the elevations and sidewalk associated with Mo Levi's building. So the only reason I mention all this is that we've gone through a lot of iterations and work to get to this point. I'm not sure what questions you have, but I'd like Jason to discuss, Eve, us a little bit since that seems to be a concern for the staff and I guess the commission. Jason, if you would just weigh in on that a little bit. Sure. Probably best to ask questions and we can respond appropriately. But I think there was some information that was provided in the packet based on kind of a basis of design specification for the product. And I think there's, I think there was a stolate product that we submitted. I think there are similar products from other manufacturers that might also be considered. I think that the fact that it anticipated having, I'm sorry, anticipated having a self cleaning property to it on the face. And then the fact that it is a system that is comprised of a weather barrier as well as a sort of a drainage plane behind the assembly that allows any moisture that might enter the wall to sort of filter down the surface of the wall. So I think a lot of, there have been a lot of improvements to the system over the years from the initial days of it when there were a lot of horror stories from getting installed incorrectly on wood construction and causing a lot of damage. So certainly happy to entertain questions. And we want to kind of run through the slides and talk about materials. And I think as you see on the Lady Street facade here, the majority of the elevation in the kind of the white area above the podium, that would be the proposed areas for the EFIS system. The sort of the gray areas above the podium are specified as metal panel. And then at the street level below the podium, we have a combination of brick veneer, of course aluminum storefront at the resident lobby and the restaurant. And then we have some Trespa panels that are sort of a fiber cement product that work their way around the storefront there at the restaurant. Ben, do you want to talk a little bit about the mural scheme on assembly that we're trying to sort of use to activate that by screening the parking? A point of information that is important is that this is an extension of the Palms on Main, which is already a successful project. And so this project's leasing office will be run out of that building as well as its pool will be a common area amenity. This building will have a top level, I guess, top floor club room with an outdoor deck. So it's on the Lady Street side. But anyway, the point is these two projects go together and they're managed out of one office by one company. And it allows us to offer some two bedrooms and things we couldn't do in the other project. But this project's significantly better and that it has nine foot ceilings on every floor except the top, which will have 10. And just to talk about what Jason was referring to, in order to time together, we needed them to look like there's some similarity. So we took the murals that are around the pool and courtyard and the Palms on Main and the front on Main. And we have a version of those that we'd like to put on assembly just to add some character and some color. One thing that's not shown on these renderings is a nighttime elevation, which that would really be impactful because it would light up the property and make it pop at night. Behind those murals is parking. This is the first floor of this is parking except for the corner mural. I mean the corner restaurant, sorry. And so originally that was open, but it staffs request they're like you need to do something to that. So we thought this was a nice addition and a conversation piece like some of my other projects around town through the package. See what you want to talk about the ground floor brick a little bit color size. We're here to answer questions. I don't want to take up more than my 10 minutes, which I'm sure we did. So let's just quick through this. I guess we ought to talk about the site a little bit. As you can imagine, there's not an inch of dirt on the site because it's only a 21,000 square foot site. So we are planning to do some streetscaping, which includes some new sidewalks. Mark Cotterall is our landscape architect, and he came up with this plan, which is a variation of something that was already approved in the past. We are working on one of the other projects, but basically we have the tables and chairs. It's an activity in the street. It's cleaning up a corner. I think most of you are familiar with what that corner looks like now with power lines and trees touching the building. And so I think we're doing a good job of making that corner much more presentable. And one thing to keep in mind is this corner connects to the Vista, you know, aloft and the Vista is growing up towards Maine. And one day hopefully we will be able to connect it all the way across assembly, but we're doing our part to try to clean up that corner. I guess that's it. If you were to answer questions, I'm looking forward to your comments. Do you commissioners have any questions? Just to confirm, all the EFIS that we're discussing is above the first floor? That's correct. The bottom is a brick, a great brick that's solid. The corner there at the restaurant, that would be the trespass or the fiber cement product, which is also very durable material. So right now this is a moment for commission to ask questions before we ask for members of the audience who would like to speak. And then we can come back and deliberate about the project itself. I have more comments, I think, than questions, but I'd like to wait to hear if there are any members of the audience that have anything to say, unless other commissioners have specific questions for the applicant first. I have a question. I'm assuming that each unit is going to have its own condenser, their conditioning on the roof. Are there going to be any other units on the roof that need to be screened off? Well, the units for the commercial space, the restaurant, and of course the common areas and the corridors and lobbies and things like that. We anticipate all of that being up on the roof, so you're correct for the apartment units. It's a fairly modest size condensing unit, serving a heat pump in the unit. Obviously for the restaurant space, that has yet to be designed, but that would be a little larger commercial equipment. I think the fortunate thing is that where that comes up and would come up to the roof of the building, we'd kind of have our raised parapet screen area there around the corner. So we would anticipate that being able to effectively screen all that. Actually, I do have one question. As much as I could tell, excuse me, looking at the drawings, which I couldn't tell much technically, but a little bit outside of our preview, except since we're talking about EFIS, it's not really. I noticed that it said that the exterior wall is load bearing. Is it CMU? What is it? The anticipation is that it is a fire retardant treated wood. This would be a Type 3 construction above the podium, which would be Type 1 construction. So by code, we are permitted to go five stories with that fire retardant treated wood framing. All right. Thanks. Do you have any post-tension in this building? I'm sorry? Post-tension. Yes, the ground level, the concrete structure at the ground floor would be post-tension concrete. The second level above the entry, you've got that's going to be PT slab. Right, basically where that horizontal sort of gray band is that defines kind of between the base and the residential floors. That would be the concrete. Any other questions for now? Thank you. Is there anybody in the audience who wishes to speak for in favor of the project? You signed in, Matt? Yes, I did sign in. Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, I'm Matt Cannell with the City Center Partnership. And I just wanted to express our organization's support for this project. I can attest that Mr. Arnold and his company, for years, we've been talking about this corner. And I know he has tried to look at many reuses of that property. And eventually, for the reasons he mentioned, abandoned that and moved on to new construction. We're excited about it for several reasons. One is it does provide quite a statement connecting the Main Street District to the Vista. And that's something we wanted for a long time. I think putting the restaurant on the corner accomplishes that very well. And I appreciate the clear glass and other things that we all strive for in the Main Street District. I also appreciate that it's a market rate project. I'm not criticizing student housing at all. I think there's still additional need for that. But this is a very high quality market rate project. And that is welcome in the area. I see it being sensitive to the surroundings around it. Kind of a cross, if you will, between some of the modern buildings. I call it the Eden's Tower, 1221 Main and the Capital Center and the more historic buildings around it. I think it does a good job basically crossing or bridging that gap between those kind of buildings. And it just has a good feel for the area that will attract more energy. So we have been analyzing this. I'd also like to commend the Arnold Company for showing us, keeping us up to date with what was going on. And I'm hopeful that the design will be resolved and that the project can move forward. So we do support the project. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? So at this point I'd like to hear any comments about the project from other commissioners. If anybody has any. Okay. And I may, this may be, maybe ask the applicants to come back up for a moment. I think that the clear question from staff is the question of Ethus, a synthetic stucco. And I don't, someone else on the commission please feel more than free to chime in. And I've weighed this back and forth as a practicing architect myself who has done projects. Not many, but we've done Ethus projects. We prefer hard coat stucco if we're doing stucco. But I know that these systems have come a long way in 20 years. And the projects that we've participated in that are Ethus are holding up well. You have a different substrate in this case. But it's a substrate that the manufacturer will warranty over the top of. I think one positive mitigating factor in this is that none of this material is on the ground floor where it's, where it can be touched. I'm having, as I've communicated to staff, I'm having difficulty philosophically with not allowing a material that has a finish the same as hard coat stucco. Since our purview is largely about exterior finishes and appearance. So given all of that, I personally am having a hard time making an argument in my mind in opposition to the material to the stow system. That said, I am really concerned about the flatness of the facade, which is also, as Lucinda mentioned, an issue that we come across sometimes with stucco. And again, I know from having done stucco buildings and having done Ethus buildings, and there are some examples in Columbia, that you can do, you can get depth in a facade. And in fact, the materials that the applicant presented, the stow product materials visually boast a tremendous, tremendous depth in the facade. So I know that that's possible. You've got some, some sunscreen metal materials that help to some extent mitigate that flatness, but you've got more than anything, a lot of glazing that appears to be flush with the stucco. And I, it's, it's discouraged in the guidelines. I, I think it's, it's not optimal. There appears to be the metal that's on the corner looks in the rendering to be pretty significantly projected, but it looks to me like it is at most a foot. And there are, I believe, two, three spots where there are balconies along the facade, which gives some relief. But my, my primary question about that is that I would, I would feel comfortable moving forward with a, with a motion if also attached to that motion in addition to what's the other items that staff recommends that we also ask for more depth. I would say four inches of depth in the punched openings at the windows. So that's one. The other is when you go to the north facade, that that parking be screened. It's not on Assembly Street, but it's extremely visible from Assembly Street. So I wouldn't necessarily, I'm not suggesting that it would be murals like what you're proposing on Assembly Street, but some sort of screening along that parking. But I, I think in my mind is just has to happen because it's very visible. And also the having more of a recognition of the lobby entrance. So that's where I stand. I don't know where the other commissioners stand on all of this. But that's, that's where I would be in order to be able to move forward with the project. Any other discussion? Not all at once. Okay. Well, is there anybody who would like to make a motion? Do some redesign that we were not able to submit because it was after the deadline, especially pertaining to the screening of the parking, which we totally agree with you from not only a aesthetic standpoint, but a safety standpoint. So that what we were going to do didn't make it to the commission. But we certainly agree with you on that. Adding screening on the north elevation makes sense and really ties the project together. I don't see a problem of that. And we were trying to get some relief and we looked all over the country for a certain set of windows that looks like storefront that would fit in our budget. But I think we can handle some relief. I don't know if we can do four inches, but Jason, I'm talking about above the first floor, the windows at the units. Right. That's what we're talking about. We need a little bit of depth up there. But if we could, I think we were saying two inches. Just thinking about the varying degrees of, you know, the sort of the rigid insulation product that would be used to create that depth probably kind of starting to push it. I don't know if there's room for compromise on that dimension, but certainly, you know, two to three inches I think of depth. Two to three inches of depth is certainly within the realm of possibility with the system. I mean, I would say where you have the sunscreen, speaking of which, why did you choose not to put that sunscreen system on all of the punched openings? It's only, it's not, I mean, it's the same sun conditions, but you don't have it on all the windows. Right, yeah. They're probably candidly being used more as an element for articulation than they are for solar control at this point. More decorative. Because I believe this is on the north side of the, facing north here. That's south. Oh, sorry. You're facing south and west. I'm turned around. That's why you don't have them on all the windows. They do. They would function. I mean, that's certainly, that comes probably down more to a budgetary thing. Not just that. We also, we felt like it made it look too busy if we put them on every window. And second, the, I don't, I guess you guys can tell this, but there's a metal wrap around the corner. And I believe there's an eight inch relief. Does that protrude out eight inches? So we were trying, we hear you and we want, we're trying to figure out how we could do it. And we agree with you. And there's a way where we could maybe meet in the middle on the window depths and put some screens on the north side. I'm happy to do that. So while we're on the subject, how much does the, the wrap that goes up around the roof and down the side? How much does that project? Eight inches. Yeah, I think we're somewhere in the eight to 12 inch range with that. So the metal panel is a pretty easy thing to project or not. I mean, it's very flexible in that sense. So I guess what I would propose is that that project further, I think we could leave that discussion to staff. But that project further, I just, I'm trying to get some depth to this facade because it's pretty flat except for that corner. That the metal panel on the corner project out further, that there's more differentiation in that plane. Yeah, and it's sort of shown that you can kind of. I mean eight inches isn't much. The shadow line on it now and we'd have a similar condition on the. That's like high noon. Tom, could you forward to the slide that's up there? Oh, sorry. Thank you. You're back. Where are you? That one. Yeah, well, so on the rendering that we were just looking at, you've got a shadow that looks like it's about that deep on an eight inch projection. So that's like. That's artistic license with the. All I'm asking is what I'm getting at and what I'm proposing is that you look at projecting the cornice line, the piece that wraps all the way around. More and the metal on the corner project that more, more of a differentiation from the facades. And then I would even propose that you don't necessarily need to look at recessing the windows everywhere, just the windows that don't have the trim around them. So that we get some more depth on the facades. Right. And there's there's I mean, there's also the possibility that you build something out around the window itself or frame, you know, use that material. Yeah, I mean, recess would be better because then it's not as fussy as some kind of trim. Yes. Thanks. Would anybody like to make a motion? I have a feeling I know who's going to make a motion. I will move that we grant a certificate of design approval for new construction at 1300 1304 assembly street and 1103 to 1113 Lady Street. Have I identified it enough? Have I identified the project enough with the following conditions that we approve the use of ethos. It is above the first floor and not within reach from the street that the applicant provide an architectural feature to the lobby on Lady Street that emphasizes the entrance that the applicant provide more articulation to the assembly street ground floor mural wall. The applicant provide more information about the roof mounted utility equipment and screening details and specifications that demonstrate all window depths and storefront glass transparency. And I'm going to add that the applicant work with staff to provide more window depth at the windows in the ethos that don't have the decorative metal screening around them. And also provide more depth between the ethos facades and the metal panel facades at the corner of assembly and Lady and that the cornice piece that wraps around and then down along the west side of the facade also be provided with more depth. And that those dimensions of the recesses and projections be provided to staff that the applicant continue to work with staff on pursuit of encroachment for the assembly street tables. And that they add screen walls to the second bays to the two bays of ground floor level parking on the north facade adjacent to the assembly street sidewalk and that all of the details be deferred to staff. Second. Second. Any further discussion? Do we have a vote please? Mr. Broom. Yes. Mr. Cone. Yes. Ms. Johnson. Yes. Ms. Fuller-Wilt. Yes. Ms. Moore. Yes. Mr. Savery. Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Next case please. Okay. The next case is at 1310 Main Street. This is a project in the City Center Design Development District, a request for a certificate of design approval for new construction. This property is near the corner of Main and Lady between the First Citizens Plaza green space in the Meridian Building. The House of Fabrics Building was on the site earlier this summer and was demolished. The proposal is to design the property as an outdoor gathering space adjacent to the market on Main Development, an urban market restaurant that will occupy the adjacent restaurant space in the Meridian Building where Zoe's was previously. The plaza design includes a number of features such as a brick and metal fence along the First Citizens property, membrane shade structures, a pizza oven at the rear, and a large TV screen backed up to the Main Street property line facing the back of the property. The project is before the commission due to its prominent location on Main Street and the unprecedented concept of having a large screen immediately adjacent to the right-of-way. The applicant and his design team have explored several options on how best to treat this structure from a false building facade to a planted screen wall. While not a building, the screen and support structure will have a large presence on the street frontage. The proposal before the commission is the solution that staff found most compatible with the design guidelines that are applicable and with the City Center design development objectives where broader issues need to be addressed. The staff finds that the proposal substantially meets the City Center design guidelines and objectives and recommends approval with the following conditions. The applicant coordinates with 1Columbia to select an artist for this project and the applicant continues to work with staff on developing details such as the front fence design and the applicant is here to present the project. Thank you. Does the applicant wish to speak? And you were sworn in? Yes, I was. And I'm Josh Willoughby. I'm with Market on Main, Willoughby Farms and Foods. So I'm really here to answer your questions, whatever you may have. But as far as me and Lucinda have discussed, we're looking at the Main Street elevation for approval of the, mainly the panels that we're working with 1Columbia or at least Nell Grove to identify an artist that would be appropriate to design something that would kind of embody Main Street and the spirit of Columbia. This is really an addition to the market space that we're leasing next door from the Meridian Building. But we want it to be a really exciting venue, one of the only outdoor venues on Main Street. We did preserve the bricks, some of the bricks from the old building, the fabrics building, and on that right hand side of this rendering, you can see the columns there. Those are actually from bricks from, we believe, somewhere in the 1800 timeframe. And so we tried to keep that together. We also wanted to preserve the steel column theme from the Meridian Building next door. So we kind of continued that and made that a little bit lower. So really just trying to get some guidance from you guys and see what y'all would recommend from us. Thank you. Any questions for the applicant? Excuse me. The floor plan shows the gates, the railings and what have you. That to me is enclosed by the use of the fence or what iron gate or whatever you got, does it say that? I see you got two doors. I see you got two doors going into it. Where are the doors to get out? So the plan actually has been revised from this plan that you see here, this overhead view. So there's not actually going to be one entrance at the very front. There's going to be two. But basically everything is supposed to actually go through the market. So the whole retaining wall and even along the front, it all feeds into the market. So you have to go into the market first and then over to the venue. So it acts essentially as a patio for the market. So the exits out the front are really just more for emergency situations and not actual going to be entrance points to the market. So what we're seeing is the three columns or pilaf, whatever you guys are calling them. Those three are the new ones and the ones to the left are the existing ones? Those are existing, yes. Why was the decision made to make them just a little bit shorter and not the same height as the ones that are already marching along? We actually did design it both ways and we do have, I don't believe Lucinda has it, but we do have a rendering that shows them the same exact height. But after comparing both of them, we thought that it kind of sets the venue apart but keeps the same theme but kind of sets it apart from the building next door. So that's kind of why we decided that. It seems like it's just barely off to me. I'm not holding the pencil, so I don't think that's a make or break comment. It just seems to me like it's just slightly off. It's neither a statement is lower or the same height, but it's neither here nor there to me, I think. So would you recommend that it be higher? I would think you either do something that's noticeably different or it's the same rather than just slightly off. That would be my recommendation. I don't know how others feel. Are there any other questions for the applicant? Anyone here who wishes to speak about the project? You're finished, I assume. I am. I'll see you have another question. Thank you. Sorry. Yes. Have you been sworn in? Yes. And if you could state your name and get closer to the microphone, please. My name, oh, hello. That's close enough. My name is Julia Stefik and I live in the University Hill neighborhood. My family and I often walk the downtown area. Mainly, I saw a sign on this project and wanted to hear what the development plans were. I'm glad it's not going to be a building, but it's going to be an outdoor space. And I wondered, since we have fewer and fewer areas for children to play in the downtown area, if the designers might consider adding some sort of child-friendly component into this market eatery area. Now, I don't know how complicated that would be if it would just be a couple animals on springs on a foam mat. But I know there are a lot of families that go to market, and there are a lot of us that walk downtown, especially on the weekends, and having some place for the children, especially a fenced-in area where families and parents, I'm sorry to wake you up, honey, would just be so valuable, I think, to attracting families to the downtown area. So, I'm not sure at what stage or if that's a realistic suggestion, but I just thought I would bring it up. Also, if it could be connected into the lawn area, I don't know if that's architecturally an okay thing to do, but anyhow, just wanted to bring up those points and see if there's anything we could do that's child-friendly. Thank you. Well, outside of our purview, unfortunately, but this project is a little unusual, so point well taken. Any potential for that, or is it? That's really is actually outside of our purview as DDRC, but I think you should suggest it. Any more members of the audience who wish to speak? Any other comments from the commissioners? Were you suggesting raising the columns in line? I was. Okay. I'm in agreement with that. Is that something you're open to doing? Okay. That was easy. Yeah. Any more comments? Mr. Cohn, would you like to make a motion? Sure. I'll make the motion that we approve the applicant's request for a certificate of design approval at 1310 Main Street with the following conditions that the applicant coordinates with one Columbia to select an artist for this project and that the applicant continues to work with staff on developing details such as the front fence design and raising the columns to be in line with the existing. Is there a second? Any discussion? Would we have a vote, please? Mr. Broom. Yes. Mr. Cohn. Yes. Ms. Johnson. Yes. Ms. Moore. Yes. Mr. Saber. Yes. The motion passes. Thank you. And I think that's the end of the cases on the regular agenda. Is that correct? But we have other business. This project is here as an informational presentation. This is at 700 and 800 Jervay Street and 1100 Wayne Street. You're probably familiar with this area off of Jervay. This is the property and you can see the two parcels. Jervay Street being on the left. This is the proposed site plan and the lavender at the top is the proposed hotel that you guys will be looking at. So this is kind of an elevation view of the building from the sides and you can see it sort of behind the old Zipo building and on the left is the Jervay Street elevation and then on the right is the rear elevation. These are some of their branding materials, photos. They're actually going to do a presentation. We just wanted to click through what was put in the packet and they have a couple of perspectives right by Abu. And just as a note too for context, this is largely in the Inovista district but the front of the building which is set far back from the street but it does come into the historic district too so it's going to be sort of looked at from both of those sets of guidelines. And they also, the applicant did get a variance for height. Just the top sort of corner of the front of the building sort of extends. There's a height limit of I think it's 80 feet and then it goes up and the top corner of the building just projects into that a little bit so they did get a height variance for that. So the height is allowed at this point as of the height variance. And this is just a view looking from across Jervay Street and some of the distinct site photos. And then we have another presentation I think they're going to load in the back room that the applicant brought today. They just wanted to submit some additional photos. We've had some conversations with the applicants since they submitted their packet. I think they've made some changes to the building since we've had those discussions but we haven't seen them yet either so I think it's just going to be sort of trying to get some initial feedback from the commission today. Okay, this must be their presentation. So that I don't have to do this maybe. Are you doing a different presentation? Primarily it's me and Brian Husting, the architect. I mean the visuals. Do you have something different that you're about to present? Is it the same thing? Okay. I just, if you could tell me when you advanced slides would it be easier than having it... Oh, sorry. I thought it was... No, no, no, that's fine. I hadn't asked you to do that yet. What we're seeing is up here a little different. Pardon me? This is the newest. Well, we might want to show the old one first because that's the one we turned in. I think we should. Right, but this is the newer one which has changes. Okay, I'm Ben Arnold up here again and with me is Brian Husting, the architect of record. Steve Opp, he's a design and construction manager for the project and Ted Torres is the lead developer on this project. And we're here today to talk about an exciting new tower for Columbia. As staff mentioned, we went through the BOSA process to get a height variance and through that process we met with the three primary neighborhood associations, the Vista Gil, Vista Commercial Property Owners Association and the Residential Association, I believe some of which are here today. And one of the primary comments was we like it but we want to make sure that you really build what you're showing us. So it's important that we get, we don't deviate too much because we promised the community in downtown that this is what we would do. Anyway, so I'll let Brian do most of the presentation because he drew up the building. Brian? Good afternoon commissioners. Again, my name is Brian Husting with Colin Altamari Architects. The package that we're showing you right now is based on the comments that we informally received from you. So we've made some modifications and we also want to give a backstory to how the design became the design that you're seeing. So if we can go to the next slide, please. Oh, here we go. I'm in control. I'm in control. That's dangerous. So just kind of some basics. We're attempting to do a music themed hotel, not a hard rock, not a house of blues, very subtle themed hotel, much more authentic. The site area, when we add two parcels together, about 520,000 square feet, 11 stories, and we got approved to go up to 133 feet high. Hotel is averaging between 150 to 158 rooms. Just depends upon which day we count the rooms. And above ground we're at about 300,000 square feet and a floor area ratio at the end of the day of both parcels of about .58. We're proposing 492 parking spaces to satisfy the existing entertainment center as well as the new hotel. This slide is showing it as the Hilton Tapestry Hotel since our submittal owners have gotten back to us and now we'll be referring to it as the Hotel Anthem. The zoning is a mixed use development and it has two overlay districts, West Gervais Historical Commercial, as well as the Anavesa Design District. So some of our project goals that may not have been communicated in the original package, we're trying to create a synergy dining entertainment district that links the convention center, the arena and the historic Gervais Street. We're trying to create an exciting center with activities, entertainment, high quality dining. We want to give your visitors another reason to come to Columbia. We want to give them another reason to come back. We want to create a destination for residents and visitors to come to the historic district, show people your Columbia and hospitality. And we want the residents to call this their own and be proud of what we're producing for them. So Hotel Anthem is the first step of a multi-phase development that it hopes to achieve these goals. And within the development in a future phase is a large public plaza that I think expands upon the goals of planning to create these kind of civic spaces for everyone. So here is kind of an outline diagram of what we're trying to achieve. We put Hotel Anthem as shown there in purple. We're keeping a lot of the existing entertainment center as the quality level of the components increases. We may be changing those out and increasing the quality level of the various elements that's to be decided. But what we're trying to do, we've got a very unique site here. It's very large, very deep, but it's right next to the convention center. It's right down the street from the arena. So we're trying to capture the audience from the convention center and the arena through our area, have some fun here, enjoy dinner, throw some axes if you like. And eventually some of the future expansions are other hospitality elements and residential areas. So I can't share much more with that, but we're trying to create this path from the arena all the way to Gervais Street and create something exciting along the way. So as best as we could determine, we overlaid our understanding of the outlines of a West Gervais and where that line hits. And unfortunately, I placed our building right there on the borderline. We did that also with the height limit. Unfortunately, we got approved there. So the north end of our project is in the West Gervais area, and then the south portion is in the end of this design district. So we started looking at what were the requirements of both and trying to understand how they apply and so forth. Height is determined by maximum height limit, set by zoning. Most of the scale of West Gervais is one, two, and three-story brick buildings with a retail component at the bottom, very classical, very historical that you see everywhere. It's difficult with the amount of height that we're doing to kind of meet that element. And had we been closer to the street, we certainly wouldn't be at the height that we are. What we noticed as we went through the West Gervais guidelines is the guidelines are really set up for new structures that are built on streets. The facade is right there, assuming what might have been our prior retail use, either offices or restaurants above, and that's kind of the formula for your historic area. And had we been there, we would have certainly done that. But we got this odd-shaped property that's fairly deep. In fact, the Hotel Anthem sits about 400 feet deep from the property, so we're not sitting on the street. And we're trying to bridge the gap of connection to the convention center visually, an attractor for the arena people, as well as being in an energetic entertainment zone. We're trying to have a little element of fun to it as well, hence the reason of music-themed hotel. So we kind of wrestle with the design districts, and that's why you're here today, trying to get some clarity. There's talks about rear elevations, materials and so forth. Some of these applies, some of these we felt were kind of outside the boundaries. And similarly, when we got into the Intervista districts, so much of it was based on buildings that are sitting right on streets, and it's just not us. What's interesting about the Intervista district guidelines is it says a facade is defined as that part of the building that faces the street. And so if you take that definition, so much of it just doesn't apply. And so I think there's a judgment call that's needed between what the actual guidelines are and what is the right thing to do with what we're trying to achieve, and again, that's why we're here today. So in both guidelines, there's references to the surrounding buildings. So the size of the west of a district and that actually makes a lot of sense of being respective for the buildings that are around you. So we're going to talk about what that is. I do have a lot more references here. So we have two structures that represent our surrounding area and that's the Adela flour mill silos. And those are characteristic. It's taller than any of your other historic buildings out there. It's an existing industrial use. So you can say it's historic, but it's actually has a legacy and ongoing use, which is pretty cool. Trucks continue to go in and out about 20 a day. The building is designed for absolute function over aesthetic. It's weathered. It's got corrugated metal concrete panels, brick. It's just a mixed bag to put out a great product. It has weathered nicely and it's really become quite an icon to not only the historic area, but to Columbia in general. So the facade is chaotic. It's unordered. There's pipes, conveyors and everything there. So that's part of the neighborhood that we're in. And here's some photos that reinforce that. We don't see this ever coming down. It's too iconic. Maybe some of the supporting metal structures will change over time, but we think this is always going to be there. Our other building that's next to us is the Arnold warehouse building. And right now it's wet willies. There's the tenant out on front in Jervay and the depot extends all the way back. It's an industrial use, nice brickwork. Large overhangs could have protected the deliveries from the trucks and the trains coming in. Limited fenestrations. There's hardly any openings to the building. Just a few doors on one side and the openings in the back along the train tracks have been infilled with corrugated metal panels. There's exposed conduit and drainage. So our surrounding areas is pretty industrial between the depot and Adela. So we're trying to respond with a structure that is also industrial. It's a little more raw. It's trying to create something a little different than most hotels. A little industrial, a little raw. And then we're throwing the music theme on top of it. So we want to thank you for the comments that you gave us informally because at that time you saw some projected bay windows on the facade. And what you didn't realize is that they were inspired by the player pianos and the roles of randomly placed holes. And if you actually were to play our facade it would have been your state anthem. But we've now toned that down a little bit and we're sharing that with you. But in producing a beautiful piece of music it isn't necessarily ordered and structured. There is chaos, there's rhythm, there's flowing. And we tried to pick that up as one of the backstory lines for the hotel. We also believe as with great musicians our hotel should have a personality, a cap that makes it distinguishable for our areas. Something that we can project light up on the evening and say, hey there's hotel anthem, let's go be a part of that. Create a personality and this doesn't fade into the background but it stands out a little bit. So here's our revised elevation. Per your comments we have straightened out some of the brick work out on top. We have removed the tapered angle at the cornice and it's not projecting out quite as far. We've eliminated many of the projected windows on the right side of the drawing which faces Jervay and cut down on the number that's on the left. As part of a larger development what we're trying to do is create a composition of this building in conjunction with the buildings that are part of our future development that we're working on but we chose not to share it today. So this is kind of the bad boy of the compositions right next to Adela, next to the depot but as we get closer to the convention center those compositions become much more formal, much more stately. The convention center has just done so nicely so we're trying to be respectful of that when we get into that part of our project. So this is actually the shot from the street so Jervay is running left and right and you actually have to get off of Jervay just to see the back part of hotel anthem. Again we're using some signage hanging onto the blade sign because what really disguises it we still need to make sure that people can actually find the hotel so we're picking up a lot of the signage themes from Adela this kind of raw industrial elements distinctive signage to kind of pull people back and if you were to look between Adela and our tower you would see the next phase of development that was shown in the diagram. And this is kind of where we are the long glazed area that's in the middle is kind of the fret neck of a guitar the fret work being there and the top is the rooftop bar that we're going to have and it's going to be surrounded with landscaping area up there so people have a chance to come up to the top take a look at the state capitol maybe look over at Adela's some of the thoughts that we might actually project movies or concert videos onto the Adela tower in the evening we still need to work that out let's see what else yeah that's kind of where we are there's another shot of the tower you can see some of the projected bay windows on the left hand side which is in the Inavista district and then on the right hand side we toned it down a little bit the projected elements are roughly about 18 inches maybe about two thirds the size of this TV produce a little bit of shadow line our windows are inset back with a cast stone lentil so there is some movement in the facade in and out just trying to make it more lively a little bit more fun it's in an entertainment desk, why not the angled support rods were meant to be as if a string of a guitar broke loose and it's dangling a little bit let's see what else and that's kind of the end of our presentation so we've responded to the comments that you gave us the question is did we get it right or do we have more work to do so that's why we're asking not for approval today this is an informational session with you trying to make sure we're moving in the right direction produce something that everybody can be proud of while creating something that's exciting that people want to go see any questions for me I have a question oh, I brought bricks so, yeah so the bricks are a little bit dirty a little bit raw a variation in color trying again to be much more of an industrial approach we don't want to match the depot building the depot is a depot and we are something different when we get to the other phases our brick choices will probably have a lot more orange in it be much more respectful to the convention center as we move forward so this is my question and I'm looking at a slide here I'm trying to determine the if I'm looking from say West Columbia towards the Adlew flower building where does how does this orient from that sight line to the Adlew flower like I'm looking at the sight plan here and I'm just trying to figure out because when I'm looking at number 13 photo number 13 you can't really tell see right there okay that's what I'm calling this one it doesn't matter to produce this drawing that we have we actually had to remove the Adlew building because you can't see it in its entirety this way but we thought since you're reviewing the entire facade it was important to show you the entire facade so the Adlew building actually if you were looking at this is to the left more the actual tower and then on the right hand of our hotel it kind of goes across the metal portions of that so it's kind of an industrial mess it's funky it's interesting and some of the things we want to do is maybe play with some of the rail cars that are already there maybe those become performance venues and so forth so we're in a process we will get there and hoping to get there with your help so a couple of things I am really excited that a building this size is actually going down in that neighborhood I moved from a city with a lot of density many years ago and I like the density so I think that's great and I think you're moving in the right direction in terms of simplifying the components I don't really buy the music metaphors very much I don't think that the guitar neck thing works you know I don't think anybody would recognize it as a guitar neck I think what I would do is and you mentioned it earlier is I think that the most successful building in that neighborhood is the convention center not with Vistalos not withstanding but Vistalos came first and then I think they took it a step further and simplified the architectural language in a really interesting abstract modernist way that works very well I would continue to take cues from what they did with the convention center I think in terms of it's lower but the scale of the building is large and in terms of the relationships of planes of planes of masonry to planes of glass separation of the roof from the planes of masonry which you've done to some extent I think those are the more you can go in those directions I think that the you know I'm not really I don't think I would think of player piano roles but I think that it just happens that these somewhat randomly projected bays in my opinion they're playful and I think they're interesting I think they help break up the mess I would encourage you to err on the side of fewer moves rather than more moves you got a lot of moves going on in this and I think you know the more that you can distill down the poetic part of it the more confident of building it will it will be it doesn't need to shout it's gigantic everybody will see it from everywhere it can really sort of take a little bit of a breath and relax a little bit and I would encourage thinking along those lines because it's massive and you do see it from Jervais street even though it's not building on the street I thought at a glance that the and I understand why you are going in this direction but I thought that the north facade that you showed here compared to what we saw on the packet it seemed to maybe it's because you have in the older version the windows are more square and I think that they're now more horizontal I thought it was kind of step taking a step and kind of a more bland direction in this with regards to the upper part on the side facing Jervais that I agreed with you because we just had one floor of glass in the previous submittal to you up there and then there was a request that there should be more glass and making sure that we had the railing correct so we actually increased the amount of glass there and I felt the proportions are a little bit awkward I'd almost like to retreat back to what we had at least of the building yet I might be another way to do it I mean I just think where it's ended up in that drawing just looks a little anemic compared to other aspects of the building yeah that right well I think it's a particularly the proportion of those openings just is seems not not terribly successful to me you know I mean I think that the signage I would caution against doing things that imitate Adlou I think that that's a really bad move to try to emulate Adlou but I think that the signage your tapestry sign actually kind of is you know it's not the building it's a piece hanging off the building I think it kind of works in that regard because it's a normal thing you would do on a building and you know which is why I think it I think it works I would just you know wherever you see something on this building that looks like a significant departure from other buildings in the vista like those triangulated columns you know you've already gotten rid of the angle on the roof I would move again I go back to the convention center I would move more toward for lack of a better way of putting it more international style modernist kind of gestures because you've got all of the piece I think generally you got all the pieces kind of in the right place just to compare what we add to what I think we were heading down some of you yeah that was the only to me that was the only step that I thought was maybe going in the wrong direction I think the other things that you're doing are going in the right direction right that's all I would echo the same thing I liked the windows on the first one the rhythm or just the sometimes you have to draw it one way to realize that it was better before no fair enough I think the more linear nature the proportions here don't what I was intrigued by is you know your architectural inspiration this piece is that's a fine building and a lot of it is because of the restraint the depth of the openings and the restraint and the you know the sort of single move and I don't this is a much bigger building but I just you know by the same token I think the same rules that make that such a beautiful composition apply to any I think it scales up my comment here the sign itself a lot of signs that we see around here are solid and identified the building this right here is letter by letter by letter by letter with with support from the building I like to see something solid here like one piece with the letter yeah I mean I just have a question about the the roof the rooftop something's catching in there I'll have to ask you later are the windows that are in the masonry recessed about six to eight inches okay we like eight better than six we want the lentils to read yeah the more depth the better especially at the scale but I think the deep punches would really be nice yeah I would agree at least the abley flower that driveway to get the back gate how how they get there down the driveway the brick driveway yeah so at the flower mill the trucks are not able to enter their property and turn around so they actually come down the brick road turn left on to their property there's a gate in the back and that's how they access the truck docks of the flower mill so we have to maintain access but because we're expanding the parking area towards the rear of the property we're trying to get the trucks to come in the back way so we want to discourage the trucks from here and let this only be for our hotel guests and people coming to the entertainment center but have the trucks come back the other way we have not come up with another way to facilitate the trucks any more any more comments about the sign if I may for a moment oh it's on the clicker the new one it still applies Commissioner Broom my only comment on this is that as the lead on the development team for Mr. Arnold I've been in the hospitality business for over 35 years developed properties domestically and internationally so is the question that you're requesting a solid panoflex sign okay the I don't think that's what he's requesting okay what would the request be that it just be a solid metal piece with the articulated lettering on it I'm not sure about how to solve that problem I see something too much going on with that sign it's too open it's got too many supports on it so your question is from a structural composition yeah it's too structural looking but I I don't know I mean I think if you look at some of the stuff that's stuck on Adlou Flower all the sort of industrial stuff I think it in an interesting way does actually kind of relate to that it looks like an Adlou Flower sign understood understood the only comment that I would make is that you know unlike many many of the buildings that Columbia has seen recently this is one of the newer hotel development projects that you've seen that is that is not just a standard prototypical hotel box limited service type of box like the new Hilton garden and home two suites which have their standard signage and signage package we have the ability to completely create something completely brand new with our own create creativity and our own design intent related to that so we have an opportunity as a commercial business venture where people need to find us and see us and recognize something in this case unique you know there's a unique aspect to it maybe if we can provide greater structural supports to what we're providing up there maybe that could satisfy what your question would be so it's just the design component not necessarily how pretty or lack thereof okay okay thank you that's what we just need to understand thank you any this is informal so anything else just had a question about the rooftop is it a bar or would it yeah yeah I will have an indoor and outdoor kind of component I think that that's a really good idea but just because of how extreme the weather can be and a lot of the rooftop decks that are coming up lately are more fully outdoor I don't know what's in here sorry I like that part sorry about your throat yeah on that particular level we have the rooftop terrace bar and all the meeting facilities are on that level as well so the meeting facilities have the ability of changing to be VIP spaces at night in conjunction with the bar so the bar activities can both move inside outside weather permitting but we expect the views from up there to be spectacular one of the things that doesn't come through in the presentation is we are also incorporating a speak easy into the basement area entering down a small tight stairway into a very refined bar environment down below so again adding to the entertainment complex some unique spaces some fun areas that we hope people will come out and explore only comment I'll make is that this will be his first four star hotel full service and so we need to be unique first class and interesting so Brian I feel like did a good job going in that direction but we appreciate your comments and we'll definitely we get with staff now and then resubmit I guess right thank you thanks any other business that I have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn do we need a quorum to vote to adjourn is there a second second all those in favor say aye aye motion has it thank you yeah I ate pizza from the new place for Phil Fokalar and it had pepper in it and I feel like I have I feel like I have a full