 Now, how did you become so passionate about the HubZone program? I mean, there's obviously, like you said, you mentioned a couple other social economic programs out there. What made you so passionate about the HubZone program? Because the HubZone program is all inclusive. It doesn't matter what color of skin you are. It doesn't matter where you're from, what you did. It's a program that allows access for anyone. It's about supporting, like, it's something that makes sense to me. Even as a woman, you know, the woman in program, I know that we had a large population of unemployed women, but HubZone is for everybody. And right now in our society, we continually to provide fracture. But I think that one of the big things that divides our society is, you know, social classes, economic drivers. And I come from a small town. I come from, I spent most of my life in West Virginia. And, you know, I love living in these rural areas because the people, they take care of each other. But the economy is just not there. And it's not that they're not willing to work. And everybody says, well, you can't find those companies, you can't find qualified people. Well, last time I checked, we're mobile. People move to where the jobs are. You know, these people might want to come back home to their small towns and be closer to their family. And me personally, I don't like sitting in three hours for the traffic. Oh, neither do I. Trust me. I, listen, I moved, I moved about an hour and 20 minutes outside of Miami into a small town. And let me tell you, I have such a peace of mind from it. You know, I've lived in Miami my whole life. And like you said, the traffic is horrendous. And you're just like me. I mean, literally, it's an hour and 20 minutes outside of Miami. And it's a whole, it's a world apart. Exactly. And like the culture, the nature, and especially in these communities, like every, we want to pit each other against each other. But every state, every county, every community, like when companies relocate into an area, we all know like if they are profitable, they recognize they can either pay Uncle Sam or they can invest in their community. A lot of them donate to local nonprofits. Our community, one of the biggest employers actually donated a cancer wing to the hospital. So when companies live and work in communities, it's not just the jobs that they're creating, it's a holistic effect. You know, they're investing in their communities. And when that happens, when companies come into these communities and they, they are successful and they build an infrastructure, they're investing in the schools, the medical care, the environment, some of our very, you know, you know, environmentally friendly, and they change, they change these communities, communities that were like lost, that have completely just like dwindled or might be being overwhelmed by crime or they bring them back to life. They breathe life back into these communities. And that's the point. And I've obviously, I've been working with the program for 10 years and I used to be the help desk representative for SBA. So I've heard the stories where companies found hope in this and, you know, people gave them a false sense of hope. And they lost a lot. But I've also heard the stories of companies that just hearing what they've done with their communities and what they, and some people are like, well, I don't really do charity in like five minutes into it. Like, I find out that they're funding afterschool programs and they're a mentor and that they've fostered all these children. I was like, oh, yeah, you're definitely like you're certainly a menace to society. But like, that's why I love this program. It's not because I like government contracting is because I love to see what happens when these companies are successful. Because Right, like the residual effect from it. Yep. Yeah. Pretty amazing. Oh, I like that. That's interesting. That's definitely a totally different take than I've ever heard anyone state on the HUBZone program. Well, I mean, I definitely understand the contracting perspective and the spending and then the fundamental flaws, meaning that majority of the HUBZone contracts are not actually being performed in the HUBZone community, nor are majority of the contracting dollars. Like when I did an analysis in 2018, it looked like 9% of the HUBZone contracting dollars being counted towards the goal where actually HUBZone set-asides are sole sources. Really? Yep. I have charts if you need them. So let's restate that. You said 9% of the HUBZone dollars were not being spending HUBZone? No. So basically in here, let me pull up the chart because I actually have the presentation in front of me because I did this presentation today. So when we do an overall spending, as you're familiar with, this is very prevalent also socioeconomic set-aside. The government can count if they solicit a small business set-aside and the company happens to be HUBZone, woman-owned, service-abled, that same dollar, regardless that it wasn't set-aside for that contracting opportunity is being counted towards every one of those pots. Right. So right now, we kind of gotten a little tizzy on my LinkedIn post is because I posted what the HUBZone set-asides and sole sources were not in comparison to what the government counts. So for instance, the government in 2018 was counting a little over $9.8 billion and then if you look at the total amount towards actual set-asides, so I was doing a comparison analysis between the amount of contracting dollars that they were counting towards the HUBZone goal versus the amount that was actually set-aside and about 9% of the total dollars that the government was counting towards the HUBZone goal was actually being procured as the HUBZone set-aside or HUBZone sole source. So that's what I'm saying and that's consistent. That's not just in 2018. That is, you know, prevalent throughout the course of the history and that's not just HUBZone, that's basically everything. Everything. Right. Except for 8A, you know, 8A and small business and they're pretty consistent with that. They've been, I mean, I always tell you 8A, I guess because of the history of 8A and so many contracting officials know how to use it, they always exceed their goals on 8A, is what I've seen. Well, yeah, they do, but 8A was never supposed to be a means to funnel traffic. Like the 8A program, you can't compare 8A to HUBZone. 8A is a business development program and HUBZone is contract. And that's what a lot of people get confused. They go, oh, they always meet their 8A goals. Well, we know that's because of sole sourcing. Right. And we'll be like, well, you can sole source with the other, but with that pesky little rule of two language and the JNA process where you basically need to sell a kidney to do it, it's not everyone's like, well, they can just do a sole source. And I was like, it is so not that easy. You know what? I've actually never seen a HUBZone sole source before. It has happened. I can tell you that there is a couple. I've had a couple of companies that have received HUBZone sole sources, but it is difficult and it shouldn't be too easy to do a sole source unless you have a valid justification. I agree with, I am a firm believer that the best person for the job should get the job. No socioeconomic set aside is going to get you a contract. No. And even if you're 8A, you should not be getting a contract award just because if you're 8A, but unfortunately that's what's happening because we give these like be strict deadlines and we give these erroneous like requirements that's typically impossible for these contracting officers to fulfill the average procurement time is 12 to 24 months for a HUBZone. And then because HUBZone is subject to so many changes, what happens? If they do a HUBZone set aside, it can be protested. You don't see as many HUBZone set asides because you can't protest somebody's HUBZone status if the contract is not being solicited as a HUBZone set aside. That's the reason why you don't see that like because and I've been in events with you know SVA where they're like, we don't get that many protests anymore. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, I was thinking I'll be excited that fax machine for quite a while. Like so you don't see that many protests because you don't see that many set asides. I had a company a couple months ago. That's true. By the way, I just I just did a video on that where I showed that and I'm like, look, look at the percent of contracts posted on FBO just on Opio and then look what percent are HUBZone service stable. And like you said, there's very few percent as HUBZone set aside at all. Yeah, because companies themselves also, when they don't win, if it's a HUBZone set aside, they immediately protest. And I'm like, come on, I know because I get the calls from people like, you're going to help me with this protest. I'm like, no, stop being a baby, figure out how you can work together. Right, right, right, right, right, right. And just, you know, listen, so you said you were at the help desk. Tell me what, tell me about the day in the life of the Executive Director of HUBZone Contractors National Council. So when I was referring to the help desk there is I used to be a contractor for SBA. And my first job when I was about 20 years old is I started off at the lowest level position at SBA running the help desk. But by the end of the contract at 22, I closed out the contract at the end of it as the PM. So I literally worked my way all the way up. And because I also believe that how do you how do you tell somebody else how to do something if you haven't done it yourself? Nice. I was familiar with every aspect of this program. And I loved always working with the companies. And so when that contract ended, just as a side project, the HUBZone Council said, hey, well, we're going to bring a help desk on. And that was back, I think in 2013. So technically for years, I've managed the help desk and been like sneeze support for the council. But last year, the Executive Director, who was the director for nine years retired. And during the transition, they were like, well, you know, we'll give you an opportunity because I love, I love helping companies. I love doing the strategy. Now, managing the nonprofit and the logistics of that, that's a learning curve. That one's a learning curve. Right. Being able to work with the companies and meeting new people every day. And honestly, I love the challenging questions. I got a request today from a company and I was like, well, I don't have that. But now it's, I'll go figure it out. I'm sure that you probably are familiar with that too. Like it gets dull sometimes when it's the same question. But when you get to the thing that can make you think about it, you're like, oh, yeah. No, I agree with you. I get that all the time. You know what? You know what's something I get that was very common. I don't know if you get this a lot. But I receive a lot of requests from people that work in the government that want to come out and open their own business. Do you get that a lot? Absolutely. I actually, that is something that I'm always stumped on. And I've had people give me responses. But, you know, again, that's, that's like treading the water for me. And I'm really cautious about that, you know, but I have received a lot of requests from government officials, government employees wanting to come out and start their own businesses. What, what has been your experience with that? Oh, I totally called everybody out. I got to brief at the DOD mark event the other day. And I really enjoyed it because it's all the, it's all government or SBLOs like large business primes. And so I, and I was talking to them, I was like, listen, you guys, a lot of times there's certain things when you are in the government, you can't, you can't, you don't get opinion. You have to say what falls within that, you know, cookie cutter box. And I go, you guys are sitting here telling me that these companies lack capacity or you can't find qualified companies. I said, I guarantee, majority of you in this room, your retirement plan is to go into government contracting. You know how many companies that are in our portfolio that are former government or former large business SBLOs that went into the business. And you're trying to tell me, I was like, are you implying you don't know what you're talking about? And they all started laughing because they knew I was right. Yeah, that's true. I go most of the companies that go, I'm not saying all, you know, there's a very different group. And I said, you know, you guys make it sound like, you know, these companies are just completely oblivious. I said, but have fun when you switch over to this other side, I'm going to enjoy this conversation as much as you think that they're oblivious to your side of it. I was like, you, you don't know what it is on the other side. And as soon as you hit that, the contractor side and that door closes, you're like, wait, what? Wait, uh-huh. That's true. Yeah, that's true. You're right. No, that's a very strong, accurate statement. Balzi also, by the way, just Balzi. I know that they're intelligent. And, you know, any company that comes into starting their own business, if they think it's going to be less work, I'll tell them right from the get go. Like, I'm not one of those ones that's going to give you a cupcakes and rainbow speech, because I want you to be successful. And I certainly don't want to be on the other side of the call when you're losing your house or you're having to fire your employees because, you know, you believe the cupcakes and rainbow. And I've been on those calls and I can't, I'm way too empathetic. No, I know what it's like. I mean, I've seen people finance their homes and like you take out second mortgages and it's tough. It's tough. It's tough. And sometimes that the way, even the way the government writes up some of these contracts, the way that they write it up in a manner that, like you said, it strange about a long time with money and payment. And we've had, we've had some close calls before. But for the most part, I can tell you what, it's better for me and my own personal experience, it's better than working on a private sector where, you know, they just won't pay you at all. How do we a subcontractor? They just won't pay you at all. Let me ask you something. You said, so you've been to Washington a lot representing companies. Yes. So the National, the Hubs and Contractors National Council is very like DC based. And that's one of the things that we're trying to change too. Because I was like, we need to get out of the metropolitan area. But I do spend a lot of time in DC. I will be in DC a lot next month. And a lot of the vendor outreach days. So, but I commute back and forth. I do not love that three and a half hour drive, but gotta practice what you preach, right? While you were in one of your trips to DC, did you ever get a chance to meet Linda McMahon from the SBA? Yeah, she actually was our keynote speaker at our conference last year. Really? Yeah, she was very personable and really enjoyed her coming out. We, have you ever had the pleasure of meeting Mariana Pardo? No, I haven't met Mariana. So she was the director of the program. And I'd have to say that like this woman, I drove her bunkers. I know I did. But I had the utmost respect for her because a lot of times people have the notion that federal employees, they're lazy, they're this, that woman was a boss status. Like first one in, last one, I don't know how she did it. I'm kind of convinced she's a robot. But she just, she just retired. And, you know, to the HUBZone program currently, Art Collins is the acting director who was, he was around with the program during an inception. But it's going to be some really hard shoes to fill. I, we still don't know who's going to be fulfilling her role. But we did kind of a retirement thing for her because she made a big difference in so many people's lives. Because you know, working with feds, a lot of times it's the canned responses. They have a wall up, like you can't approach them. And that was never her. And so it was really, and Rob Wong has definitely been out at a lot of our events. He's extremely approachable. And I really love seeing federal employees that have that, just that open door policy because it means so much to the companies because these people don't get their jobs because they're oblivious or extremely intelligent. So. No, I, you know, that's, that's, and you keep making that point, which is great. These people, they're obviously very intelligent people. So why, you know, why do they make it difficult for some of the small businesses? I don't blame the contracting officers. So one of the things that is going to be one of our top legislative priorities is, and this is one of the things that I'm seeing the other side of it is the acquisition process is just ridiculous. Like, I know we created it like burdensome to make sure that it was a fair market, but we've done exactly opposite of that. Like eight A is like people are getting contracts of the path of least resistance. Like it's the same way with category management. We've all heard the death word of category management, which was strategic sourcing and contract buddling. That is significantly narrowing the selection. And I've been in multiple roundtables where everybody keeps talking to me about goal this goal that I don't care about a goal. I do not care about a goal if you fail the mission. It doesn't matter. We met a percent goal if it went to 10 companies. Congratulations. And I said that straight to the head of our army's acquisition office. And he was a general. I said no offense though. So I feel like they covered you. They covered you right there. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I was like, listen, I'm not speaking to you just from the Hubzone program. I'm like, what does it matter if you, I was like, will you meet the 3% goal with category management? Yes, you will meet that goal. I said, but you will collapse our industrial base. So congratulations. I'm not really sure we can claim it as a win. If we're reducing the number of contract awards, we're reducing the number. We have no enforcement for subcontracting limitations. So we need Congress to look at it and be like Congress, we're sitting here telling you that you need, they need to meet this goal, but we've made the acquisition process, the JNA process, you know, limiting soul sourcing. Like we know the answer to meeting small business goals and it shouldn't be category management. It is soul sourcing because no one should get a soul source contract unless they're the best person for the job.