 live. Good morning, everyone. This is a meeting of the Master's Gaming Commission. We are treating this as a public hearing, but also in the event that we do have any deliberations, we have noticed this as a public meeting. And because of that, I would like to do our roll call commissioners to confirm that we're all in attendance given that we are using virtual technology. So good morning, Commissioner Cameron. Good morning, I am here. Good morning, Commissioner O'Brien. I am here. Good morning. Good morning, Commissioner Hill. Good morning, I'm present. Okay, so we'll get started before we begin with our public comment period. I want to, of course, announce today is February 28th. And I think that all of us have front and center in our minds and our hearts, the people, resilient people of Ukraine. It's a sobering time for us. And I know that the entire team is keeping the citizens of Ukraine in their thoughts and prayers. So we have some important business to attend to, and I'm going to turn the meeting over to Chief Delaney. Good morning, Joe. Good morning. Thank you, Madam Chair and commissioners. So before we get into the public comment, I just wanted to set the stage just a little bit for everyone, if I could. So the reason why we're here is ultimately the commission needs to determine whether or not the proposed development across the street from Encore is part of the gaming establishment. So this process started back on February 10th when the commission heard a presentation from Encore and their attorneys on the proposed project. And then following that meeting, we opened up a written public comment period that closed on last Friday at five o'clock. We compiled those Friday evening and forwarded them all to you so that you would have an opportunity to review the public comment that we received. We have received some stragglers after that. And we certainly want the commissioners to be able to hear all of the public comment that's out there. So we have compiled what we've received thus far and sent that off to you. If there are any further striders, we will continue to forward them to the commissioners. Just in the interest of complete transparency. So today is the opportunity that the public has to provide oral input into this process. We did ask folks to pre-register if they wanted to speak at this meeting. We have three folks who pre-register and there may be a couple more that also would like to speak. We do notice that there are a number of folks who are on the phone. And if you did want to speak at this meeting and you have not pre-registered to us, if you could send an email to Crystal Howard just asking to be put on our list. So her email address is crystal.howard at massgaming.gov. So if there are folks here that didn't pre-register and would like to speak, please send that to her. Again, I'll repeat that. Crystal.howard at massgaming.gov. And just before we get into this, so after this meeting, we have scheduled a meeting for next a week from Thursday on March 10th for the commission to deliberate on this matter and potentially render a decision on whether or not the project is to be considered part of the gaming establishment. And so the proposed project as it stands today, if you recall, they on course submitted a project that was a little bit different than what we're looking at today. So the project itself consists of about 20,000 square feet of restaurant and retail space and up to 999 seat events center with associated pre-function space and approximately 2,300 space parking garage as well as a pedestrian bridge across Broadway that would connect from the proposed development to the Encore Boston Harbor develop. So with that setting that stage, I guess we can now open it up for public comment and I will call the folks who have pre-registered with us first and then we will open it up to others if there are other comments that people want to make. And so first on my list I had here was Troy Siebels, who's the president of the Hanover Theater in Worcester and also president of the Mass Performing Arts Coalition. Troy would you like to make some oh and just one quick thing just if you can try to keep your comments to about five minutes or so just so we make sure that everyone has an opportunity. Thank you. Thank you and thank you for the opportunity to speak and commissioners, thank you for your time today and for being open to this public comment. As you said, my name is Troy Siebels. I'm the chair of the Mass Performing Arts Coalition. We are a group of performing arts centers that are nonprofit and municipally owned across the Commonwealth. We were engaged with the legislature during the writing of the gaming statute and we signed a impacted live event venue agreement with Wynn before the casino was first licensed. As you know the gaming statute prevents performance venues between 1,000 and 3,500 seats being built at the casino. We also signed you know the impacted live venue agreement. It commits the casino and us to ongoing good faith communications and some collaborative efforts on both our parts to benefit both the casino and our performing arts centers. Our frustration is that those things seem not to really have been worth the paper they're printed on either the statute or the letter. The presenting work that Wynn has done so far you know some concerts in the in the ballroom are a technicality perhaps putting 2,000 chairs in a big ballroom and selling tickets to it might not technically be building a theater but it's pretty clear that it's not in the spirit of the legislation. We believe that saying this new theater isn't part of the casino. It seems like another way to skirt the spirit of the rules through a technicality. We have frustration that Encore has moved so far down the road toward building a performance venue that's clearly in conflict with the spirit of the statute and if they're able to ignore that so easily we are we to imagine that they won't be a predatory presenter in that theater. We do acknowledge that the revised plan has a seating capacity of up to 999 which is least as illegal compliance with the statute but I will also say that the conversations that I had and our other performing arts center had with the co-emission with the commission and with Wynn were about more than agreement to forego venues of a certain size. They were about open lines of communication and establishing a playing field free of the predatory practices so many other casinos employ when they're booking events. We believe that there is a mutually that there is a world in which both organizations can can survive but we believe that we are we are not on that level playing field right now and we're grateful to the commission for helping to mandate not only the letter but the spirit of the gaming statute as well. That's all I've got today. Thank you. Great thank you Troy. So Kathy did you want to interject anything after each speaker or would you just like me to go on to that? Thank you Joe. I do think that the commissioner should be able to ask questions of the speakers. Typically we ask clarifying questions because it's a public hearing. We have marked this up as a public meeting as well commissioners so if you if you have questions for Mr. Siebel's um they we can legally entertain them. Questions? Commissioner Cameron? I mean no commissioner Brian? Certainly thank you Madam Chair. Mr. Siebel's is there are there other criteria in terms of the statute and the ILOVS etc where you see your the agencies you represent and the casino operating in harmony as you call it and them having some sort of entertainment venue in the area that they propose? Yes I think it's really about about communication if we can can be at the table together. They can certainly present in that 999 cent space artists that perform in a 999 seat space without impacting most of our venues but there is a there's also potential for them to bring in the acts that normally play 2500 seat theaters because their business model isn't the same as ours and that would definitely impact us. So I think it's not a silver bullet restricting the venue size it helps but I think that it would help also to be in a continued dialogue. And is there a structure that you have now with the casino in terms of dialogue? We don't we don't now we can certainly put that in place. Thank you. Mr. Siebel's have you heard from Encore Boston Harbor personally since this proposal? Yes we did hear just last Thursday I believe and I have an appointment to speak with a council tomorrow. Excellent thank you and so just as a follow-up with Commissioner Brian you you did say there's a world in which both organizations could survive and and she asked for a criterion is there anything specific more specific than what you've offered today that you want to offer right now before we lose the opportunity to have your comments? I think when we were working with the legislatures on the statue we tried to go down this road and had a lot of trouble because there's so much that's just hard to define you know what is a predatory presenter versus a commercially successful presenter it's very hard you know we could ask that the commission prevent when from seeking radius clauses so that there are artists can't perform at other venues for instance but we work in an industry where that's not a silver bullet either because they don't sign a radius clause they just say hey I want to book this artist you're not thinking of playing anywhere else in Massachusetts are you? Oh no not at all here you can have this date we're in a wink at an odd industry it's just the the reality of it and so it's very hard to put a strict framework around something that would be beneficial to us I come back to the dialogue because we can't really find a way to enforce our survival. Thank you commissioners any other questions from? I'm sorry I do have one more follow-up. Mr. Siebel do you're using the phrase predatory presenter is that a term of art that you can define or is that just a phrase that's kind of a general? It's not a defined term it's a general it's an industry standard term for a for a presenter commonly a casino presenter who not only seeks to be successful but seeks to to exclude everybody within say 100 mile radius from performances. And aside from casinos are there other industries that would also frequently fall into that definition? I don't know off hand of other industries that perform yeah there are commercial presenters as well as non-profit presenters but they are also largely working on the same business model whereas the casino is arguably not. Okay thank you. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Siebel's I'm not sure if you plan on staying during the hearing certainly I'm welcome to and it's the end Chief Delaney I'm sure he could be invited back for any comments at the end of the other commentary but we appreciate your input very much. Joe. Thank you so next up we have Dan Rabinovitz who is an attorney that is representing the city of Medford as well as Bill Blumenreich presents. Dan I'll turn it over to you. Thank you very much Mr. Delaney good morning everybody I just want to make sure that my submission that I emailed on Friday was received and circulated I assume that's the case I see a lot of people nodding thank you I don't have a lot more to add above and beyond what's in that written submission I'm focusing on two issues the first issue is really corporate governance and how Massachusetts law treats piercing the corporate veil corporation to corporation in various circumstances and I would submit to the commission that the fact that East Broadway LLC is a wholly owned subsidiary of wind resorts as is wind mass LLC the entity that holds the license I would say that under Massachusetts law if this was brought to court that the chances are very very high that a court would find that the same control group controls both of those LLCs and therefore they are really one and the same and so that obviously goes to the argument that the commission should find that in fact they do have jurisdiction over what's going to happen at the East Broadway parcel and the second issue may not be entirely formally requested for comments on this on the second issue but I think it's important for the commission to know what's been going on and ultimately for my clients and I'm sure for many other theaters the fact that the encore has continually had concerts where seats have been sold and seats have been put in their ballroom that they built that are between a thousand and thirty five hundred seats as I've outlined in my letter on several occasions that's a straight violation of the law that's not a violation of the spirit of the law that's a violation of the law the law said you as a gaming licensee thou shall not build an entertainment venue with a thousand to thirty five hundred seats and in fact they did build a an entertainment venue it's the ballroom they use it for other things too but they use it for entertainment and they've been violating the law by having various events and as I said in my letter as I as I indicated there's actually one planned in March it's a fight night and you know I just want the commission to be clear about something the encore has every right in the world to put on entertainment events okay but what they can't do is they can't put on entertainment events with in a room where there are seats between a thousand thirty five hundred and so as the commission decides what the right and fair and just thing to do is I would suggest that they're not being limited on putting on entertainment events they just can't do it so that it takes customers away from what I'll call the mid-level theater operators the the venues close to the encore for example the Chevalier theater in Medford those those shows are competing with that venue and if and if they continue to be allowed to have entertainment events where they're having seats in their ballroom over a thousand under thirty five hundred that's a violation of the law and the only other thing I would add is that in addition to the conversation that was recited in my letter when Mr Blumenreich went to speak to the encore before the pandemic shut down many many entertainment events you talk about a dialogue one of the things that he offered was to try and work with the encore and that they could have shuttle buses that would go back and forth between the casino to the Chevalier theater and so that everybody would be in a win-win situation tickets would be sold in Medford at the theater and gaming clientele at the casino could have the ability to go to shows as part of their experience with encore and he was basically told we're not interested in that and so I think that taking everything together the flavor seems to really be that the encore is not interested at all in complying with this restriction about the number of seats that they can have in their entertainment events and I think therefore would be appropriate for the commission to either find them as I've asked for because of that or at least issue a very stern warning that they're not to have events anymore in the ballroom between a thousand thirty five hundred seats because I will tell you and I don't say this to be over aggressive or to be a jerk or anything else but I will tell you if we find out that they are going to have those kinds of events again one of the things that my clients are going to consider is to have me file something in superior court for injunctive relief on that I really don't want to have to do that but if necessary you know that that may happen so I'd be interesting to know if any of the commissioners have any questions for me commissioners questions from Mr. Vrbinovich first off thank you and thank you for your written submission I appreciate it very much thank you for missioners questions commissioner Cameron you're all set commissioner Brian all set commissioner hill the only thing I would say and I appreciate the comments on the letter that you sent to us but this sounds like it's two very different issues one that's happening currently and what we have to decide about what oversight we have in regards to the development across the street so I think madam chair it's something that we need to look into but I think it's two very different issues of what we're listening to today for a hearing and open comments but I do appreciate the comments and it's something that I think we do need to look into I agree I agree with that I have to say I'm very appreciative of Mr. Vrbinovich's bringing his concern to us you know it is certainly not not related as we think about the the entertainment venues but I appreciate that distinction as well commissioner hill I'm all set to Mr. Vrbinovich and that's usually because your letter was very clear I don't have any follow-up questions it's it's because of the clarity and not because of lack of interest so thank you very much I appreciate that thank you thank you chief Delaney thank you so next up we have Kenneth Krause who is representing the friends of the Chevalier auditorium uh can I will turn it over to you thank you and was my letter received as well yes thank you thank you uh so yeah Ken Krause I'm a Medford resident and I'm on the board of directors of the friends of Chevalier auditorium and Jean Mack jim Chevalier auditorium is the city of Medford's uh 1850 seat performing arts center in Medford square and um our mission for the last almost 30 years has been to provide financial and community support for the venue which is a very crucial element to to our community both from a cultural standpoint and an economic standpoint as I said I submitted the written comments so I'm not going to elaborate on that very much but I'll say the letter contained my analysis of the four-part test that the commission is using to determine the uh the east of broadway project whether or not it it should fall under the gaming regulations my conclusion is it it should and we just want to highlight a couple of things that I did mention in there particularly because some of the information has come to light since the February 10th presentation and some people on the call and others who have been following this might only be basing what they know about the project on what Encore presented on February 10th well five days later the win resorts president and chief financial officer had a conference call with investors following the release of the quarterly earnings for the company and also an announcement the same day that the Encore Boston Harbor property and buildings were going to be sold and leased back and the comments that day were quite in contrast with the comments that were presented to you by the other win representatives just five days earlier for example the leased back sale agreement specifically mentioned that the one of the benefits of that setup was to infuse cash in the company to construct an expansion that is expected to include uh non-gaming amenities and covered parking across the street if you recall from February 10th the the win Encore people stressed repeatedly that this was an entirely separate project both in terms of the ownership entity and also the type of activities that were going to be going on over there they they never said it was anything like an expansion but the chief financial officer and and when president five days later referred it repeatedly as an expansion and an expansion that would drive Encore Boston Harbor to even higher levels of performance so the the fact that the the previous commenters a presenter said it was unrelated um seems certainly questionable um the other thing that was notable I thought that Mr Billing said was he specifically talked about the parking structure and I'll read part of his comment that uh the growth of our adjacent areas through our upcoming expansion project again across from the property the expansion will see us add additional amenities and importantly additional parking parking particularly on weekends remains a constraint from us Encore still has tremendous amount of growth ahead of it so if you recall from the presentation on the 10th the the parking deck uh presence was was very much minimized and the presenter said that they they felt very few people would park in that parking garage and come over to the casino well that clearly isn't the case so that's just sort of some new information I think that should be considered in the analysis of what is before you and that demonstrates why the east of a Broadway project is part of the gaming establishment and you um could rule that way I do want to speak a little bit too about what the two previous uh compander said and I really think this uh situation about the the the events being presented currently is very related to this um uh topic and it's something that the the gaming commission has never had an opportunity to even be aware of probably let alone rule on so whether it be part of this ruling or is a separate ruling I think it's this is the time to do it um because if if the uh venue goes ahead and it's not part of the gaming commission first and foremost they can turn around the next day and make it 1800 seats so that's part of our concern is that if it's not ruled part of the gaming commission there's nothing that would preclude them from raising it back up to any number they want um and as was stated you know they are they've been violating the the prohibition on events between a thousand and thirty five hundred seats almost from the beginning they opened in june of 2019 and october of 2019 they presented their first show uh the b-52s which by the way they talk about predatory practices the b-52s were all but signed to perform at chevalier theater uh in that year then the casino came along and offered the b-52s three times the amount that chevalier theater was going to offer them to pay there so that's an example of the predatory practice I guess that maybe predatory isn't the word but they have an unfair advantage because they can offer these uh these acts much more than the conventional theaters can where their business model is they pay the act and they have to recoup the money through ticket sales and concession sales that's not that's not the model they use there they can pay much higher because they're not reliant on uh income from the event itself they have lots of other sources much more lucrative sources to cover their costs so this is sort of a marketing uh tool for them to get people to come into the casino area go to the show often at a reduced ticket price or free tickets and then spend money in the restaurants and the casino area where they cover the cost so it's that's with the total different um business model that we we're talking about trying to describe so I think this is the appropriate time for the gaming commission to really look at like you always do is this entity that has the license complying with the license and again uh as Dan said it was brought to the attention of staff in late 2019 and there was a staff change and then COVID came and the the show ceased so but now they're back doing them again so that's um I think a very relevant relevant issue that's related to to what we're talking about and again why were the regulations that put in place it was to protect the smaller municipal independent nonprofit venues that operate in the conventional business model like I just described we'll you know you sell the tickets and try to recoup the cost and make some money to put put on future shows and we don't have that other third revenue source or outside revenue source even sometimes from other properties that casinos can use to to cover the costs of the events that they're putting out for live entertainment so and you know if if this is approved and and one venue can be allowed to um have this this exclusion um to the detriment of 10 or 15 other venues in the greater boston area we really have far-reaching impacts you know these are really crucial venues for um economics for one thing uh michael bobbett gave an excellent presentation to you on the 10th and talked about the the value these venues bring and you know each loss to the community um it is great uh more so too because these are venues that the state and we as taxpayers and people who are elected to serve us have invested tens of millions of dollars in these venues your theater alone has gotten millions of dollars to update this 1940 building with new seats with accessibility improvements with air conditioning which we got three years ago which makes it a 12 month venue which it never was so we would basically be saying if these venues can't survive in this uneven landscape that we just put all this money into all these venues for what we we're basically we're basically throwing it away because these these venues aren't going to be able to survive we're not going to get anybody that can book a show no no company would come in and book the show for the city of medford book events because they know they've got you know both their hands tied behind their back when they're competing against the casino and it's in its resources and as uh as trice said we're not against competition um competition is good um more entertainment is good um where i'm where i'm from uh before all the high school sporting events uh the crowd is uh is told to be on their best behavior because the teams are friendly rivals on opposing teams and that's how that's how we view each other uh blend auditorium lowell auditorium we're friendly rivals on opposing teams but today we're we're friendly rivals on the same team and that is in support of a gaming commission ruling that the east brosson project is part of the encore harbor establishment and also enforce the regulations um prohibiting uh live entertainment on a on a certain um size there so we can continue to be um you know competitive in in this arena the last thing i would say about what could be done to the question came up about to to make this work better you know one is just to have went on go live up to the agreement that they made with the impact of live entertainment venues uh as was pointed out in the letters they were supposed to notify that coalition far in advance if they ever decided to build an 1800 seat venue and uh talk about how it could be done in a way that would still maintain the integrity of the gaming statute and their license and everything they agreed to well as they admitted at the february 10th meeting they they hadn't done that at all and finally reached out last week so there's been number of examples where they've completely ignored that agreement um as was referenced earlier so one of the things we can i think is important is that they are required to live up to their agreements and one of the agreements as mentioned is to not have seats in anything they build anywhere on their properties have venues with a thousand to thirty five hundred seats so thank you for the opportunity to go on about that mr kraus thank you for your written submission and for your comments today i am have a question that i'm not sure i don't have the written comments in front of me and forgive me i might have read over them but it occurred to me i should probably know this more accurately chevalier theater and chevalier auditorium two different entities you are the auditorium and jim you said has a seat seating of 1850 so the it's the same entity yes okay i wanted to i said well i wonder what the i wanted to make sure um that i knew that because i wanted to ask well why chevalier why give me the history of the name sorry for the confusion so yeah the chevalier memorial auditorium was built in 1939 opened in 1940 as a works progress administration project it was named after god free chevalier who was the um he was a pioneering world war one aviator from medford and his uh most prominent claim to fame was he was the first american pilot to land a plane on a moving ship and he was very adept at uh landing planes uh taught many um more lee more well-known pilots like admiral bird and others to to do this early on unfortunately he died in a plane crash a few years after his um famous landing so the building was named in his honor and when it opened in may 1940 so but the official name is chevalier auditorium it is interchangeably used chevalier theater it was the high school auditorium uh in 1940 when it was built the high school was attached to it the the high school had a major fire in 1965 and most of the parts of the building that could be salvaged were turned into condos but the city was persuaded by residents to save the theater and there's a gymnasium underneath which is the medford recreation center and youth center currently but that's so confusing so the so the gymnasium is under okay very helpful so that was the that's sort of the history of it and it's uh theater auditorium it's the same the same building i think there's been more of a stress to kind of distinguish it from a high school auditorium when you've got you know top-notch entertainers coming here to perform that you know the image you don't want is a high school auditorium it's a beautiful building it's been updated a lot so um but that's the that's the history of it and why that it's the same thing and it's 1850 seats and that that's what i wanted to confirm and i thought for uh just for clarity um it is it does the the uh theater itself the auditorium seats 1850 actual seats correct correct okay that's really helpful and and thank you i think i had read about the history of chivalier before and you reminded me so thank you so much commissioners um do you have questions for mr krauss commissioner brian are you well set commissioner cameron commissioner hill i was um a little taken aback when you started talking about predatory practices and the fact that the b 52s were going to be going to medford and then uh ended up going over to on-court are there any other examples that you could share with us where there have been predatory practices like this that's one that i specifically know i would have to refer to bill blumenreich who does this on a daily basis um but in talking to his booking representative from uh bill blumenreich that does the chivalier theater and the wilber theater in boston and some other venues um they said they called it the casino play the agents know it the you know it's a small circle of people that do this work and when they know a casino is competing then they ratchet up what they're asking for and very frequently they get it so that's that's what is the most um difficult thing for uh venues like ours to compete with and like lin auditorium lin auditorium is owned by the city of limb just like chivalier auditorium is owned by the city of medford lin runs it with its own staff i don't know if we're speaking today we have a contract with a professional man the company that books and and operates them but i guess as i explained they have um limited revenue streams to make the shows successful and don't have anything else to fall back on but with other specific ones i don't have numbers or specific anecdotal information that says you know they paid two or three times more i do know the b-52 was one that was was tentatively booked for chivalier and they lost that one some of the other performers were listed in our uh letter the uh straight no chaser show with another one that i know chivalier was competing for again bill blumenreich could could give you specific numbers on that um the comedian wane brady also performed there the dropkick murphy so ones that typically would perform in venues of our size thank you can we just add one thing to address commissioner hill's question on that uh chair person uh judge absolutely you know the term thank you the term predatory uh is an interesting and kind of a sexy term but that's not really the issue the issue respectfully the issue is that the law was written and it's very clear thou shall not build an entertainment venue with a thousand to thirty five hundred seats and whether an act is potentially possibly could be booked at another theater is it's interesting to think about it and you know if there was a ever a civil lawsuit for unfair competition and you wanted to talk about damages that might be very germane but right now what we're talking about on this particular issue is that the law says you can't do it and they've been doing it and whether they acts or you know potentially going to go to another theater or not the law i believe was specifically written so that you didn't have to analyze that it's it's very clear they can they can have whatever acts they want in a theater that has less than a thousand seats or more than thirty five hundred and if they don't put on the entertainment in that way shape or form then it's a violation of the law thank you I just had a follow-up question for that um Mr Reveno it's if ebh puts on a show outside no seats in an outside area in that range that's excluded under the statute would you read that to be a strict violation of the statute or no no i would not it says seats for better or for worse that's what the law says it says though that shall not build an entertainment venue with those amount of seats and the fact and so the ballroom having seats that are moved potentially in and out you see is not a differentiator no no difference in my mind if they're having an event like the seating charts that i've presented in my written material you can see those seats right there one one of them um the uh i think it was the uh straight no chaser seating chart it there's 2300 seats right right shown right there you have the straight no chaser show so whether you can move seats in or out is besides the point they're having they're using that ballroom as an entertainment venue with with a number of seats in there that violates the law thank you i'd like a follow-up question to Mr Reveno it's um you're in and the input is very helpful for us thank you um all three provided really valuable input um if the event is um put on sponsored not by the licensee the casino but rather by a third party do you see a distinction not not if it's not if it's being put on in the gaming licensee's physical room no they they built a room that they're now using for entertainment with seats that violate the statute and whether some other entity is actually doing the booking to that room if they built the room then they violated the law thank you commissioner brian were you leaning in okay no no that's okay um commissioner hill are you all set do you have a follow-up all set commissioner cameron are you all set okay um mr kraus um back to you uh do you have any additional comments that you'd like to make just from that last uh dialogue there um um you know the the competition is such that you know some some people do pay more uh within the venues that we're talking about and occasionally there'll be a show come up and say hey did you see also got that show and they're like i'd never pay that much that money so you know it happens that you're free to try to pay whatever you whatever you think you can recoup how would then you have to price your tickets accordingly so but um again the casino has much more basically unlimited resources to put that money toward um what they pay the performer to come and in some cases as was mentioned there's geographical restrictions and some of the venues that are currently operating do the same thing they say you can't perform within a certain uh radius or within a certain number of months from from that um for that so i think you know that it does it does happen um i i would the question about the outdoor venue um i i guess there would be a technical difference between seats and an outdoor venue but i do recall that in the ruling that the commission made i think in 2019 about what constitutes the gaming establishment area the outside areas were included um there was a gazebo and there was a green space and things like that so i mean if they wanted to put something out there that was more than a thousand attendants you know you didn't get into capacity versus seats but i think that would be there would violate the spirit of the law and and the last question about you know could a third party put um another show a show on across the street or something that would not necessarily be considered um part of the gaming establishment that's that's probably how they would do it but as i stated at the beginning on core wind resorts and its multiple subsidiaries that they put forth on the 10th they're contained they're they're they're going to continue to own everything over there so the bottom line to me is they're the owner uh they're the licensee and whether they're putting on the show themselves or they're using a third party to put them on uh if that's you know that's part of the gaming establishment over there because the licensee is the owner it's physically connected and they should not be allowed to put on shows of the size that we talked about that's all thank you thank you commissioners any follow-up again from mr krauss thank you um joe i think i think we're all set at this point um thank you so much mr krauss so yeah so so uh actually next up we have a late edition uh mayor uh brianna mongolcone from uh medford uh mayor thank you commissioners and thank you for the time i'll be brief because i know our attorney and mr krauss and troy from handover have stated quite a bit and we did submit public comment on friday but i just also want to argue that these two llcs are one and the same and having a walkway which is makes it very clear that it's the facility is attached um i know the last meeting it was said that uncle was not trying to be cute but i i feel with these two decisions you have to make that is exactly what they're trying to do and i just asked that you go back to the reason that the legislation was put in place and that was to protect some in small theaters such as the chevalier in medford and the handover um the theater and handover and in many other communities and enough speaking to you as an attorney although i am one i'm speaking to you as mayor who has is trying to make sure that the economy flourishes here in medford our downtown economy as well as our chevalier theater that we've owned for a very long time luckily we have bill blooming right who has done great work and brought the economy up to where we are today and we've suffered through cove it like everybody else but i think there's a purpose for on core and is one who's been there i think it's wonderful but i really hope that you look at why that legislation was put in place and rule accordingly so thank you thank you madam mayor um um do we have questions for her and and there's our we have generous amount of time for today's conversation so there doesn't need to be any restrictions commissioner cameron are you all set for me along with cone commissioner brian all set commissioner hill all set um i think at this time it would be really helpful for us to be reminded joe um in in mayor longer cone of the community mitigation support that um i think medford has been quite strategic in in accessing and we're delighted when we see applications from medford but also a reminder of the uh um agreement that i think ends up supporting there's the surrounding community agreement does support some dollars to shabalier and i think it's important for us to know that some as we think about our decision ahead i believe it's a hundred thousand a year is that correct i don't have them the agreement right in front of me but i could then interject there if you like um so the city entered into a um surrounding community agreement separate from the i-level agreement right um to um provide one hundred thousand dollars a year directly for shabalier theater which we've gotten three payments of there's also a fund that the city gets the medford community fund from the casino that's one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars and that can be used at the discretion of the city um for example one year when the grant process was announced the friends of shabalier applied for ten thousand dollars to help refurbish the gymnasium floor and the recreation center underneath the theater we were successful in getting that so it's a hundred thousand directly for the theater hundred twenty five thousand for general use for the city and then prior to that early on there was some work that went agreed to help pay for to make some transportation improvements in the welling circle area particularly on the east side of medford near near everett and then as was mentioned we have gotten some grants from the mitigation fund for some other transportation related improvements um in uh particularly on that um cited on wellington um station landing area of rivers edge area so we'll put a plug in for our community mitigation program madam mayor uh chief delaney runs that and we're always delighted when we see the communities access those critical dollars uh but i commissioner is just a reminder right now under the surrounding community agreement one hundred thousand dollars does go directly to the theater mayor it may be worth clarifying too i mean we were in a different time as a city then we we did not have professional management company running the building so one hundred thousand dollars was appealing because that at that state's point could mean that we could put on maybe two three four five shows um because the city was doing it with an all volunteer commission and a great part time one person booking agent who mostly fielded calls for for rentals at that point so um one hundred thousand dollars is while we certainly appreciate it most of that money has now since we have a professional management company who puts up all the money for the events the city of medford has no risk at all on the success or failure of the events the booking a the booking company that runs the events manages the events books the events puts up the money out of his own uh and we from the from that we get a dollar per ticket to go for the restoration of the building but the hundred thousand you know in the current level of acts that bill blooming rice brings in might pay for one show you know two shows so um in the big picture while we we greatly appreciate it it's um it's not a lot of money in terms of keeping the theater viable or competitive um in the the market that we face in because of going head to head with the casino i um i live in a nearby town so i do go by um and i south on 93 to go to work and have seen the billboards advertising the programming for shabaliah theater and you have a had rich success i know commissioner hill follows it um carefully too because he does the same route this um are you able to tell us how many bookings you have right now uh plans through a certain month or a certain for the year it's well the average before the covid was just about 100 a year bill's goal is to have 200 per year um i know this month there uh we had a couple in the early part of the year we had some postponements through the covid january's kind of like traditionally just looking at the schedule earlier this morning there's about 12 uh shows i believe in march similar amount in april and may so we'll be close to if not over the 100 shows again um this year so that's a great sign that it's ramping up congratulations um any other questions all right um fair lungo con thank you and thank you for your leadership all right chief delaney so the we had in one of the letters that we got a letter from the city of beverly uh and the cabot theater they had expressed some interest in speaking here we reached out to them but didn't hear back i just wanted to check and see if any of the folks on the phone if that is anyone from the city of beverly or the cabot theater hi this is kasey sword from the cabot can you hear me oh yes great thank you thank thank you so much we can hear you thank you yes thank you thank you so much for the time um you know our our concerns are very similar to to those that have been brought up by our friends and and medford and and handover and and and we share all of these sentiments you know our specific concern uh is more regarding the the predatory booking practices that have been talked about kind of at length here and i don't want to talk too much more about them but the the the cabot is an important cultural and economic landmark in beverly um where you know economic impact is anywhere from 10 to 12 million uh we we're hoping to get back to that level this year um now that we're coming out of covid um and and this the concern that we have is now with the even with the reduced capacity the cabot theater we're the smallest theater of the of our cohort where we're at 850 seats so a venue of 990 seats or less would would put us in direct competition and you know like like our other friends in the market we you know we understand competition well but we are concerned about the predatory competition uh with the cabot which would be which could be totally detrimental to to our ability to exist and and and so we you know we understand the the the law and what it is but we we're voicing our concern you know we're with with the size and uh with with these predatory practices that we've seen all over the country um and other states that while where this has happened uh thank you so much mr sard for your comments commissioners do you have questions um commissioner hill this is nearby um neighboring community to your home i know that you know the cabinet quite well and there are many times that's beautiful theater and always enjoyable when we go thank you uh commissioner brian are you all set okay commissioner cameron i'll say um thank you and thank you again for your submission too we appreciate um the fact that you've you know reduced it to writing as well thank you very much thank you chief delaney okay um so that was all of the folks that we had who uh registered or or responded uh crystal have we gotten any additional emails uh from from folks so we have a request from lee farrington you're muted there crystal you went sorry we had a request from lee farrington and if lee is on the call just as a reminder you can press star six to unmute oh hello um i'm a clinical social worker and i'm also a resident of chelsea and i'm very concerned about any um expansion of um on core um as a clinical social worker i have observed over the years the ramifications of gambling addiction and no matter you know what's the what on on core might claim its purpose is to make money off of people losing large sums of money and win himself was actually quite open about this um this comes of course with increase in crime the surrounding communities have you know accepted mitigation for this purpose um and this exposure um proposal um really has um no positive impact that i could see on the quality of life in the um surrounding uh communities in addition to um there uh i know this word's been overused today but in addition to their predatory business model um they're also in questionable compliance with their license and i really um don't see any benefit to allow an organization of this nature with the track record of the purpose of casinos in general allowing it further expansion into uh the community and in addition the um the density of the neighborhood i don't think supports it and um i also support what other people have been saying today about the negative impact on local arts communities and um so thank you very much for allowing me to speak today thank you miss uh fairington could you just let us know again um the community that you're from please oh i'm from i'm from chelsea from chelsea thank you and thank you for your work um in clinical social work it's so important so thank you very much um and okay so so difficult questions for miss fairington commissioners um everybody seems to be all set i will note that march 1st kicks off problem uh gambling awareness month and uh the master's gaming commission's director of research and responsible gaming is very involved with his team in um working on important initiatives with our three licenses uh on those matters so um to your concerns miss fairington that we're very fortunate that the um our guarding legislation also gives really additional resources to address healthy choices in gambling so thank you this is the lady it said paul didado i i'm registered uh when you sent me the letter oh i'm sorry i guess um well we'll take you right now then how about that good morning good morning representative um how are you good morning i'm doing fine and i say hello to all of the commissioners doing a great job and you always make sure that you uh the public's welfare in mind yes i'm not going to reiterate that what has been i'm not going to reiterate what has been said by uh people much more articulate than i but what i want to do is at least uh focus on focus on one thing uh you know mcdonnell was pointing out that the uh the venue of the parkour casino and the predatory acts that they bring in to their casino in the ballroom are a separate issue and we hope that the commission takes a look at that and says that uh you know that's not in that's not in the spirit of what the legislation was um but the second part that i want to you know emphasize is that the walkway that is being uh talked about from the casino because of the venue the walkway uh if you ask uh the designers they'll tell you that the walkway goes right to the casino floor so i mean it's very evident that this is without a doubt part of the casino just in you know just in a different way so i would hope the commissioners take those two things into consideration and uh and i appreciate the opportunity to thank you representative um commissioners do you have questions for representative donato thank you doesn't have a good day thank you so much we appreciate your calling in um uh crystal do you have any other names that have joined this time we have no other uh requests to speak so joe um well i thought maybe we could just ask if there is anyone that's on the phone um if they haven't spoken i would like to speak um you can do so at this time uh just need to do is it star six uh crystal yeah on mute yes star six so if um while we're just speaking again if there's anyone who wishes to either email crystal howard to say you'd like to provide uh comments um we are our public hearing extends to one the event that you just can't get quite off your lunch break but you want to email get to your lunch break and you want to speak between now and one you would email crystal and it's crystal dot howard at mass gaming dot gov crystal c r y s t a yeah c r y s t a l dot howard h o w a r d at mass gaming dot gov um we do have one request that just came in okay great from a georgia green are you on the call georgia and again it's star six two on mute looks like good good afternoon miss green joe and crystal can you see is there something that we need to do to help her looks like you're it looks like she's off me miss green you have someone go off mute but then went back on it yeah i saw that too miss green so it's star six if you find yourself on mute if you could press star six i will send them the link as well in case they are having that's that's great so joe i'm i think you're right we um are going to remain open right and through through one o'clock um before we if we pause a bit um i do want to give everybody anybody sort of last minute chance before we pause um um i want to thank those who have contributed already uh this is you know it's such an important issue and so important for us to to hear from key stakeholders you took a lot of time we also received multiple multiple public comments from uh constituents joe i i'm um that really in many ways echoed your sentiments today so we'll be considering those as we go forward as well as your testimony today um our meeting is uh today is a public hearing and a public meeting there's an opportunity for us to address any other business we won't be adjourning commissioners until the one o'clock hour but we could certainly video out and mute out and crystal and joe would be monitoring um if any more members of the public want to participate we want to make sure that every voice is heard um i did want to know that it's relevant to today's discussion that uh because we do have an upcoming meeting on this issue and set aside march 10th as joe mentioned i have asked um um general counsel gross to and and chief delaney to look into the law as it pertains to the ballroom and events and uh and the current scheduling so that works underway um i don't know if my fellow commissioners um we're curious but certainly it was the input that we got today that i learned um about the the planned march 17th event so you know work is underway for us commissioner hill to your earlier point whether we'd be looking into it and and joe and and todd and and karen will be um you know giving us more guidance on that going forward commissioners do you have any other business that you want to take advantage of today okay so crystal and joe do you want to explain how this is going to work now so that we can make sure not to keep this online public hearing yes first um let me just let you know that i did receive another email from the screen okay is on the call i'm just waiting to see if we can unmute ourselves because but i don't know the number so miss green again it's star six not pound six and um or you can shoot me an email and i can unmute you myself but i don't know your phone number yeah we we need that phone number gets so there oh are you okay let me see i think it's the eight five three six number let me pull that one i think it went away actually that's interesting i guess we're having some technical difficulties well oh wait here we go let me try to unmute this it's interesting it's fleeting her yellow yeah it is unmuting but hello okay well there we go there we have it oh my gosh finally thank you very much can you hear me yes good afternoon excellent good afternoon thank you very much for the opportunity to speak i am a clinical social worker who has worked for 32 years in the chelsea community with citizens of that community and the surrounding areas and i'm very familiar with the the history of on core and whatever and as a previous speaker mentioned i have a lot of concerns about uh compulsive gambling and how gambling really impacts underserved communities which chelsea is one of as our other communities in the area so that is one concern which obviously is not the topic for today but in hearing the i've been on the call since one o'clock and i'm really concerned about the comments that i've heard from the other communities and the legal people and whatever about the constant seeming violations of the licensure of the casino for one and i think the what that says about the intent of the establishment in the area which is not necessarily for the benefit of those underserved communities and the people who are living at the foot of this uh building um and my thought would be that expansion is uh not something that i think will benefit the communities in the area but something that will continue to impinge on them in a very negative way and my thought is that it would be in the best interests of on core to be a or to become actually not just to be but to become a good neighbor um and if there were something that they wanted to do uh that would benefit you know the communities not just for the present but ongoing would be to perhaps build a park across the street or something that families could use for free people who live in that area who could uh recreate with their families plant trees to improve the quality of the environment um and to because that concerns me given the the traffic uh situation that has uh always been horrible along that route and which has only become worse with uh with on core being there and i think that the pollution that goes into the air and into the soil around there just based on um the trucks and cars idling and parking and whatever is terrible so i think if they wanted to really be a good neighbor i'm building some kind of a park for people in the area would go a long way uh and that's all i have to say today and i appreciate very much the opportunity to speak thank you miss green uh uh joe can you remind us is is there a contemplated green space did i read that um you know there's going to be some plantings along the front of the buildings and so on but there's no no particular no public access large green space you know i mean there's definitely be landscaping but okay thank you uh commissioners do you have questions or comments from this green i'll set okay it looks like we're all set thank you very much i miss green for joining today um oh morning we appreciate your input and we appreciate your your work um particularly on behalf of those who um are encountering gambling challenges and problems so thank you thanks for your good work thank you okay joe and crystal do we have others who have joined okay that appears to be it um so i guess we'll just uh crystal and i will just stay on the line until uh one o'clock and i guess the commissioners will need to come back to adjourn the meeting at at one but we'll stay on the line in case someone joins late and we can crystal you'll text folks if they need to jump right back on yes yeah and commissioners it's it's not too bad it's only 15 minutes so if you can just we can probably linger near our computers but i think we should reconvene at 1255 so we can adjourn out properly does that make sense commissioners okay uh to those uh who have stayed on and members of our team thank you so much for joining this important discourse we appreciate very much your contributions today okay and i guess the folks who are on that you're you're free to you're free to go uh or they're free to stay certainly well we are yeah thank you joe so much hello if you just joined the call and you're looking to provide public testimony you can email crystal dot howard at massgaming.gov to get on the list and the commissioners will return the public hearing is open through 1 p.m hi dave we're we're coming back now if you want to your screen is perfect i'm just trying to figure out how to unshare it right now oh thank you so much okay um commissioners i'll just do a quick roll call so that we can confirm we're all here again commissioner cameron i am here commissioner brian i am here commissioner hill president okay so we're all set um uh chief delaney and and crystal do you have any additional members of the public who wish to speak one individual join the call that i have received no request to speak okay your email all right um joe did you want to invite comment for anybody who's joined if you wish to to speak if anyone would like to speak uh who was joined in the last few minutes if you hit star six on your phone you can unmute and give us any comments you have at this point okay and for those who did speak is there anything else that you thought of who are still on i see mr prowess anything that you wish that you had commented on before that you want to add oh well thank you if i could i did speak with the representative bill bloomin rice presents to try to get some more information about the competition that we encountered bill encountered for events with encore and he did mention that there were a couple of other shows um like straight no chaser that bill did have a bid in on but wasn't necessarily a situation where um we lost it to to that uh you know factor uh tony bennett was another one that they were close to having an agreement on i think the tony bennett show might have been a private show there but but the representative reiterated that you know the model that the venues like ours follow is you know there's a break even on every show and they need to know if the economics works in terms of what they're going to pay what they offer the artist to to perform there and then what they can charge on tickets what they can recruit can they make can they make the money and make make some of the profit well that is really not a factor as we talked about with the casino because they can pay over the going rate and get the uh act to come because they're not reliant on the um revenue generated in the typical fashion from the ticket sales and the concession sales they can cover the costs through the money that they they get through other sources gambling restaurants and things like that the other thing he suggested that we pay close attention to is the design of the building across the street because there are venues that are quite creative um in terms of uh of the sort of a performance space that is um surrounded by or there's a ring of restaurants uh around them and they have views into the the venue itself so the venue itself might only be a certain number of seats but there could be an open level of a restaurant adjacent to it's you know looking down into the venue that they would be able to take in the entertainment maybe as part of their restaurant tab or something like that so just to suggest you pay close attention to that if it gets to that point um on the design and be you know careful on what the capacity actually is versus how many can actually um you know participate in the show so thanks for letting me add that thank you thank you any questions on the following up commissioners all set okay thank you um anyone else wish to add any comments joe no i think we're all set um we'll just you know we'll take all the information we have here and we'll prep for our meeting on march 10 march 10 commissioners are you all set any additional business then i would ask for a motion to adjourn with a huge thank you to those who contributed today thank you so much commissioner brian uh yes madam chair move to adjourn thanks second thank you okay any comments okay commissioner karen i commissioner brian i commissioner hill hi and i vote yes four zero thank you uh thank you to specifically to joe very well managed meeting over a weekend so thank you for getting us so prepared and uh to crystal thank you so much for all the orchestration and to dave susan for coordinating all of the communications today we appreciate it so much thank you have a great rest of the day everyone