 Welcome to JSA TV Europe together with the greener data movement for these quarters live event focused on European additional infrastructure Stainability, I'm Jean-Marc Lehmann joining me today Stein Grove board member of the climate neutral data in the pack And Stein good to see you a couple of weeks after your massive and gigantic successful event In Amsterdam, which I hope you managed to get some sleep afterwards a little bit But we look back at a very successful event and was great to see you again In person and it was great to see so many people in person again It was very interesting. You can see the audience has also changed for even for better Than last year. So it is really evolving into something quite special Within the European data center event space But talking about sustainability now. So what would you say are the key challenges? The Europe is still facing in achieving its goal of making data centers sustainable by 2030 Well, I think that the first and utmost thing is Understanding our business and that we can connect also with government on on these type of Topics and and how this industry is working. I think that As an industry, we're always been have been focusing on on sustainability and If you look at the results that we got on and how we use green energy The amount of green energy the percentage of green energy We're really at the front, but I think as a new industry. We're still not completely Understood in how this industry works that for instance co-location Isn't controlling the it in the it in the in the data center and that gives complications with with legislation so we're trying to to Yeah, give the helping hand to legislations and be very close to that because I think it's vital and to have the basis right Okay, so for our viewers that don't know the climate neutral data center pack Can you just give a brief overview of what the organization does and wants to achieve? And also, how do you work with data center operators and policy makers and other stakeholders? within the data center space Yeah, the the the the climate neutral data center pact is a unique pact because it's made by uh, it's it's it's raised Started by the cloud industry and the data center industry together. So udca and syspa the The umbrella organization for the cloud providers in europe work together on creating a pact in which we say as an industry we want to achieve a sustainable industry and set goals in On water on energy use on waste heat on recycling and and really Make also for instance a framework in which we can say Where we're only not only doing a saying that we're doing it, but you can also Check on what we have What we we want what we want to achieve and and this is something that And this pact also combines the industry which makes it easier for a government to To work with an industry because we're all in this pact together. Yeah, and I think that's the key message We're all in this together And and this is an issue that affects even beyond of course the data holes Into the the the wider society and the human species as a whole But then an organization like the climate neutral data center pack It's quite interesting and the ambitions are very big and very important to the to the marketplace But how are you going to kind of measure reports on your progress? In your goal of making data centers climate neutral And then what's what metrics will be looking at from an organization point of view? Well with a new industry there There are a lot of challenges and we know that there are challenges for instance if you want to report on What is happening? You need to have a good baseline you need to have standards and if you look at the the international standards in europe the e and 5600 That's still under development. So especially the The kpi's These are the ones that are still being worked on but We have made the initiative to to create a framework in which we can monitor the progress And and this framework which is developed together with bureau veritas We set a real So like the main areas that we want to monitor We have set a specific goals Science scientifically based goals That can be monitored via These specific kpi's that we put forward and by doing so we made the framework also Usable for smaller providers so that they can do self-assessment and on the other hand we can use the framework also for Auditors that they can use it for larger firms To monitor on the same specific Areas and in this with this you can sort of like create a real clear baseline for smaller providers And for also the larger providers that are operating europe Interesting and then so one implications will the the the pack have for businesses in europe They rely on data center services. So not so much on the operator side But the people that actually use the data centers to store their stuff How is the pack gonna impact them? Well, I think that people that That run it they look for reliable data centers. They look for A chain of digital infrastructure which can be Really audited on every level so on the cloud level on the data center level on the energy used and By having clear frameworks and clear Ways of doing assessments audits on every level. I think that will give also some assurance with companies that That can show to their people or they are investors or their users that every part of the The value chain or the digital change is actually Doing It's in the most sustainable manner. So I think that In a world which where accountability is becoming more and more important I think having a clear framework that can be monitored and that can be audited Is is vital for also a lot of businesses that everybody needs to be responsible for Making their operation 100 percent green and if they outsource them to a data center It is great that the data center can also provide that evidence Very true And then so let's look at to to the pack as an organization itself Where are you in terms of numbers of members? Where do you want to go? What's coming up? Give us the speed of what's happening now and what's coming next. Yeah, the pack Yeah, well, we started, uh, I think around three years ago And we have grown into an organization where we see have around 20 NTAs both from the cloud side both from the data center side involved From every part of of Europe and Around 80 larger operators and these operators are on the one hand Local cloud operators a lot of data center operators, of course, and also hyperscale operators, but They represent really, I think Above 90 or above 80 percent of the capacity in Europe So it's a real good representation of this industry that are that have also supported us in this idea of creating a real industry backed backed Okay, and then sign you're a very easy person. So I'm going to take advantage and just ask a couple more things Give us a spin as well on what's happening with the digitalization association. We kickstart And anything else they're involved with because you're involved with a lot of different things Yeah, well, I think that working together in in a european way helps us also to To to offload a lot of work in the common things that we have together and by doing it in a european way We we have the same issues also in the Netherlands and So so that's a very positive thing. Yeah, well on the one hand in the Netherlands We we focus very much on on the public affairs side and on the other hand Very much on the promotion side and like you said, yeah Six years ago. We started with kickstart to promote and to bring a event on the On the on the agenda where at the start of the year to to to meet each other and now Yeah, we grew from 250 people now to 1500. So that's really Has been a big success. It's also a big challenge to to to really raise the standards every year, but i'm very happy how It went and the reactions that we got so very happy on that And that's really on the one hand. It's of course in Amsterdam So it's easy for us to attend as as as dutch But it's really a european it's become a european event where the whole industry is coming together We had over 20 nta's in in in Amsterdam having separate meetings. There were a lot of uh Good events but also updates from uh, northern europe southern europe west eastern europe So i'm very happy that that is all coming together and and especially since covid I think we just today also had a nta call in europe and everybody Or there were some remarks that it was so good to meet each other finally again And that helps to to to to work together and to move forward Yeah, and if you look at so like the real issues in in the Netherlands, of course, we see growth As as as the rest of europe But we're also sealing it a challenging environment. So The energy market the grids There are challenges Yeah, we have to think of a new way to to to make growth possible on the one hand We are growing because we have more people are moving to the cloud to to ai is Is stimulating growth on the other hand we see we all are also Having the same problems as the rest of the Netherlands that Everybody is moving towards solar panels on its roof Cars that are electric which is putting a large large burden on the energy grid So we need to find new ways to work together with the grid companies to expand the grid to also make long-term Plans on how to grow the industry. So that means a lot of dossiers a lot of issues in which we want to be on the table and And work with government to to find the solution in that Interesting. So and then so just going back on the pack now. So if people want to learn more about the pack and maybe join How can they can they do so? How can they get in touch? How can they learn more? About the the climate neutral data center pack? Well, we have a good website where there's a lot of information called climate neutral data center Dot net and they sent spelled in the english way re and On that website, you can find information about the pact On how to join who has joined on the working groups on the resources. So There's a lot of information there You can also follow us On the news there's a timeline of what we have achieved Since 2021 and and where we are going to so we have just renewed the website It's a very clear website. So you're there. You can also see in in summary. What's Actually what we're trying to achieve. So that is something I would recommend everybody to to go to first and otherwise if people have questions Contact us and contact me and we're happy to help and and provide more info because Oh, yeah, if you haven't joined as an operator or as a cloud provider Yeah, I think it's very good if you are part of it and you're backing it and so that we can make steps together to seal off approval Stein has always has been a pleasure speaking to you It's been a pleasure to see you a month ago as well less than the month ago In amsterdam. So and I can't wait to see what's coming up in the next few months And then of course amsterdam 2024. I wish I'm so he's going to be bigger and better I'm bolder as well in terms of conversations So thank you so much for coming on board as for your home. Thank you for tuning into jsa tv live Don't forget to check our social channels for more content and until next time. Happy networking Thank you very much. Bye. Bye