 From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Dell Technologies World, digital experience brought to you by Dell Technologies. Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Rick here with theCUBE. Come to you from our Palo Alto studio with our ongoing coverage of Dell Tech World 2020, the digital experience. Let's jump into it. We're really excited to have our next guest. He is Sam Bird, the president of the client solutions group for Dell. Sam, where are you joining us from today? I am joining you live from Austin, Texas, Jeff. Oh, it's beautiful. Great fall weather. Yeah, it's turning really nice. Nice time to be here in Austin. Right. So Sam, let's jump into it. I mean, you cover kind of the heart of what Dell started with, which was PCs. And it's funny, a couple of days ago, Michael tweeted, because he likes to tweet, which is fun. An article that said the PC officially died today. It's a reference back to an article I had to look at the January 26, 2010. The PC officially died today. That is so bizarre. And that is not, in fact, not true. You guys are seeing unprecedented demand. So I wonder, as you look back at that, and I'm sure you saw Michael's tweet, what kind of goes through your head? Because we're in a very different space than we were 10 years ago. Yeah, I think the world's changed a lot, Jeff, from 10 years ago. I gotta say, the PC died 10 years ago. It feels pretty good being dead for 10 years. So I think we actually saw a still alive and very vibrant PC. So you think about everything that's happened with COVID. We have seen the PC and people using technology to stay connected, whether it's working in their business, learning from home, staying connected with other family members. So we like to talk about it as the renaissance of the PC, the kind of this rebirth, reemergence of this really good friend that you had has become really core to how we're getting stuff done in the world today. And we've stayed bullish about the opportunity around the PC. Michael's had that view from, you know, when he started this company and we've since expanded to many other areas beyond selling PCs, but we continue to be really committed to the value of that technology in people's hands. Right. So just in defense of the article, it was written on the launch of iPad, right? Which was a new form factor. And, you know, we've seen this proliferation of form factors both within PCs and mobile phones and, you know, the sizes of screens getting bigger and the sizes of green getting smaller and surface all kinds of different things. So I wonder if you could share, you know, kind of your perspective in, you know, kind of the opportunity that opens up when people are looking for different types of form factors. And then more importantly, I think now it's horses for courses. So when I'm sitting at my desk, you know, I own a big giant XPS with all the RAM and GPU and stuff I can stuff into it. If I'm going to the airport with a long flight, I want something small and light and easy to carry. What's interesting, I think with cloud, it enables you now to basically have the form factor that you need, where you need it for the types of work that you're trying to get done. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. You know, if you take that 10 years ago article to today, we have had an enormous amount of innovation in the industry that's made the devices exciting and appealing for how people want to operate. So, you know, we've seen, Jeff, a shift towards more mobile form factors with COVID. So a commercial space that used to be maybe half desktops, half notebooks is now in the 70% range, more mobile form factors, which reflects how people want to use them. You know, they're sitting at home. They need that device to be portable. They want to go between rooms and home. That's the other thing that we've found in some of our research and work on the space is, you know, people might want to sit at the kitchen table in the morning, in the afternoon, maybe they're outside. They might have their kids doing school from home and have to be around them part of the day. So they still need a mobile kind of form factor, but it's plugged in. I want full power to run my applications. And like you said, we will get back to a world with travel and people being mobile. And then you need to dial in the right form factor that has maybe a smaller screen, more portable device. So one of the things that's kept this business vibrant, you know, for the past 10 years and right now is a bigger screen experience is really, really valuable. A keyboard and multiple ways of inputting into devices are valuable. So those core things are great. And then we've got systems that are set up for how people want to use them. You know, we still, I have designers sitting at home using big desktop workstations because they're the most powerful thing. Their time's really valuable. There's a right system for how you want to use technology. And I think that's a tenant, you know, an approach we take in our business and that's what we see in the industry. I think that's what's helped keep it very vibrant and alive. I love it. I love it. It is truly that work from anywhere and anywhere as you just defined can be a whole bunch of things. And it doesn't even mean just at home or just at the coffee shop. But that's really interesting as you even change locations where you're working within the home that really supports that. So, you know, COVID hits, light switch moment, everybody's got to work from home. So huge, huge pressure there. And now as you said, you know, we're seven months into it. Still going to be going on for a little bit while, a little while before people go back. Huge boost to your guys' business. I'm curious if you can share some thoughts in terms of, you know, now I need to kind of project a little bit of that office back to the work from anywhere situation. And, you know, you guys are that, you're kind of that edge device that ultimately connects back to the mothership. Yeah, I think it's, and that's where we've seen people realize it's a really valuable device that helps keep them, you know, productive and connected. We have seen, it's very interesting of it. Used to be, you know, pre COVID, for most people work was a location, you know, post COVID it's something you do. And suddenly it's very location agnostic. And we see the world operating that way in the future, Jeff, of these devices at the edge are going to be working in a world where sometimes it makes sense to be in an office. Maybe there's collaboration, other things you need to do. But we're going to see people working from home, working from a coffee shop, working from, you know, anywhere in the world. And we're going to need to stay connected in that way. It's enabling a great set of talent. It's enabling people to be where they want, you know, get done what they need to do in their personal lives and then be contributing in a great way to a business. So I think technology plays a huge role in going and getting that done. And to me, the world doesn't just return back to a, you know, pre COVID space, but we're now in this, we've learned we can operate in this kind of multimodality world where technology can help keep us connected, collaborating, getting stuff done. In some cases more productive than ever before, and it's kind of unleashed this new wave of thinking. I think we will continue to see great creativity on stuff we're putting in our devices to enable that, you know, software applications approaches that are going to enable that that will really take us forward as we look at the future. You know, I'm just curious if you could share, you know, kind of a general breakdown by kind of form factor, what do you see between kind of, you know, I don't know if you split high end desktops and low end desktops and then, you know, kind of laptops and Chromebooks, what's kind of the high level kind of breakdown and how's that, is it changed significantly over the last several years? And you just mentioned a boost, you know, during the time of COVID. Yeah, we've seen a shift towards notebooks. Now, you know, much as the article you pulled up from 10 years ago, I think the death, the death of the desktop has also been much exaggerated. So we're more in a mode of 70% of the systems that we're selling are notebooks, 70 to 80% range. It's a little higher in consumer. And that's, you know, 20 points up in the commercial space. So we're seeing, you know, people have valued that kind of portability of systems. You know, that said, as we talked through some of the ways people use it, there are great uses for desktops where people are in the same place where I need ultimate power. And then as you're at home, we've seen a little more shift to a suddenly, you know, portability that was really valuable because you had sales forces, engineers on the road all the time. And I really wanted something that, you know, lasted, had great battery life and was really easy to carry around. Suddenly we're in a world plugged in at home. Like we look at our devices, we've gone now more than half of our laptops are basically on as we have intelligence built into our systems that tunes how battery management is done and power management's done. More than half those systems are now in a mode of all basically always on AC. So people are, you know, plugged in all the time. They would like a little more powerful system. So whether they're running Zoom or Teams or some other app, multitasking, it's like there's a, you know, different requirements there. I think that changes as we go forward and we get back to, you know, the notebook, it's like the ultimate design people want is a great big screen that's super light and the battery lasts forever. And I'm like, that's what keeps our engineers and designers working every day because that's a really hard, complex thing to solve. And, you know, we continue to work and push that next forward. Now it's a little more biased to power sitting on a desk. We will be back in a world where it's gonna be, yeah, I want power to sit on a desk, be on a video conference, get work done, but I also need to be able to take that on the road with me. Yeah, I just think, you know, because of the proliferation of online applications, right? And, you know, so much of our work day, no pun intended, you know, is done in all these different cloud-based applications, whether it's Salesforce or Slack or Asana, or whether we're, you know, working in social media applications or even our, you know, kind of cloud-enabled local applications. You know, a lot of times I find you don't even have to carry your device, right? I can leave one device at one location, one at the other. I know it's almost like you pick up exactly where you were when you log back into Chrome or you log back into whatever your browser is, if you've got it all configured. You know, you don't even need to carry it a lot of times. I find it's really nice. And if I have to check a message on the phone, you know, it's this very different way of working and I think it's really pretty slick. I do want to get into productivity, which you've talked about a lot. You know, I've always said the best productivity investment anybody can make is a second screen on a desktop. I mean, it's so much more productive to have a second screen, a third screen. You go to places like Wall Street and the NASDAQ floor where time matters and productivity matters. There are screens all over the place and you guys are doing a ton of fun stuff with screens, big, giant curve things. And you made an interesting observation in other interviews that now people are consuming their entertainment content via those screens, whether it's an over-the-top service with Netflix or whatever. So this kind of shift to, you know, kind of more content consumption as this blend between kind of what you do in your personal life and what you do in your work life, both in terms of time and content, you know, continued to mix. So a lot of exciting stuff happening in big, beautiful screens. Yeah, totally agree, Jeff. And we see, you know, we've looked at productivity and see boosts with a bigger screen around your system. Same thing with exactly as you described, putting two screens around the system or go to a trading floor and there are screens everywhere because it's about the, you know, it's about the content that you can consume and that, you know, the work that you go get done and it's a lot more efficient to be able to have multiple screens, whether it's looking at a presentation and doing a call, you know, a video call for work on one screen or either side of a screen. And we're seeing people build out that, you know, their home office, their work office. I think that's to me the, you know, the exciting piece of, you think about how technology is arming people to get their job done. Like you can't imagine, if you had all the technology taken away from you, you're like, okay, what am I gonna, what do I go do? Like if the internet goes down, I don't quite know how to go be productive here. You know, I go try to find someone who has a landline phone on the block and call someone up and actually have a discussion. But like, I'm not gonna build out a work, you know, a workspace. I've got to build out a home space, companies that are pretty progressive, the ones that are investing more in technology for their employees, we're seeing them be a lot more successful in this COVID era, which equals go get them the right tools, the screen around the system, you know, the extra devices. So it's like, hey, my posture's great. I can actually go get work done and I'm in a nice space. Same thing back in the office. We've built stuff. We're building low blue light technology into our commercial PCs. We put that on our high-end consumer PCs. So, you know, now you can walk into your home office early in the morning. You can go to late at night. It'll have you all tuned so your body's ready to go to sleep. You know, you don't even have to, don't have to talk to your family at all during the day. You can just work all the time from your home office. But I think little pieces like that are going, how do we put technology in this world where it's like very easy to walk in and out of your, you know, your office and being tuned on, but hey, I need to go to sleep or I need to be chilling out after that and get the right technology and capabilities that let people be successful. So I think it's pretty exciting everything we've been able to do. Right. So I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about user interface. One of the reason of this article that we keep referencing 10 years ago was the launch of the iPad, right? And the iPad did have a traditional keyboard. But I think people found out that not having a traditional keyboard, depending on the type of work you're doing is a little bit of an inhibitor to your productivity. But it really begs the question as we enter this new world of different types of interaction with these devices and the increased use of voice, whether it's with Siri or, okay, Google, we've had, you know, regulations on the ADA in terms of access to websites and this and that. As you kind of look into the future of human interaction with these devices as you get more and more horsepower to work with on the GPU and the CPU and, you know, can free up more resources to this type of activity. I know you can't share anything too far down the road, but how do you see kind of the future evolving to get beyond this QWERTY keyboard that was designed to slow people down because typists were too fast? I'm still waiting for the more efficient keyboard option to be available. But what's the future of human interaction with these things to take the degree of efficiency up another level? Hey, Jeff, we will do a custom keyboard for you. So you get me your high speed layout. We'll get you one of those. You know, we do see, it is pretty remarkable how long the keyboard's been around and we still see, it's also remarkable to me how powerful that is as a input device for some tasks in the world. So what we see is it's not gonna be what replaces the keyboard and there's one way of going and doing things, but all this compute, the sensors, the capability on the systems are just gonna allow people to operate the way that they wanna operate. So you look at a PC today, it still has this great keyboard. It still has a laptop form factor that has been there for it's probably 25 years or so. It's actually pretty nice because it fits on your lap. It balances really well on a coffee table. It's, you know, we've looked at so many different form factors and it actually has stayed around for a good reason because it's pretty functional. You know, you take on top of that though, we've built touch into all our systems and screens. So a capability that's available to many of our customers. And I go, people are just starting in the beginning, it was like, okay, hey, how do I take this PC with touch on the screen? And then you go, I don't wanna do everything with touch, but gosh, it's like, how many, you now touch it if it's something's not touch, you know, you have little marks on the screen. I went to, I was looking and working with someone here in a design firm and they had a product that was non-touch and it's like I reached and touched the screen to try to make it bigger because my eyes are not quite as good. And they're like, oh yeah, that's not a touch system and everyone touches the screen. So it's like, that becomes normal. Voice is gonna become normal. And we have capability on the PC. Like you said, there's a bunch of voice ecosystems not everything is easiest to go do in voice. There are some things where you go, hey, I just wanna go touch that, you know, gesture in the same way. We look at intelligence on the system of also going, there are things I wanna have just happen because I always, I always do that and I shouldn't have to do voice. I shouldn't have to do gesture, touch, everything else. Like, hey, maybe I start the morning and I always pull up my calendar. Why doesn't that happen? Or I like to listen to a, you know, a song in the evening as I'm typing away on email and getting things buttoned up for the day. It's like your system can anticipate some of those things and it will just do that for you. So I think you're exactly right. We're gonna see multiple ways of interacting with technology and it needs to be natural and easy for us and then let the user pick the way that they wanna go and do things. Right. Well, you just touched on a whole, you jumped ahead two questions all by a list of things I wanna talk to you about. And really that's the application of machine learning and artificial intelligence, not in a generic way that's an app that sits inside of the PC, but in terms of using that intelligence as you just described based on my workflow, based on my habits, based on the applications I use, based on, you know, what you can observe and learn about me or maybe it's some dictate down from the corporate setup. You know, how that PC operates for me because I think it's a really interesting thing, right? Everyone uses their machine differently in whether they use shortcuts or not, how many tabs do they have open? You know, the variability, you must have crazy studies on this in terms of the way people actually operate these things is so high. So huge opportunity to, you know, again, kind of remove the, get the signal up from the noise and help people decide what they should do, prioritize what they should do and add a layer of simplicity to, you know, is a complex amount of notifications firing at me all day long. Yeah, and I think that's a huge, you know, you talked about the potential you have in a world where more apps that we use are cloud based of going, how do I augment the capability in this client device at the edge to be intelligent and help me go do more versus just being, you know, really dumb and serving up this other content. And I think everything you described is opportunity that we see. We started, Jeff, about five years ago and have been very aggressive at putting intelligence and machine learning into the systems. We started on our workstations where there was an obvious application of like, how do I tune a system to get the most performance out of an application? And we saw settings, configurations, making them different, helped tune these very specific, you know, CAD engineering programs that developers were running. They're times really valuable. They want the most performance. We used to have to have people sit down and we'd go, okay, let's go run this application under this workload. We can put a table together. Here's a bunch of recommendations. We started going, well, hey, how do we have that happen automatically? Let's try different settings, figure out what works. The machine should self tune itself then and figure out what's right and get based on exactly what I'm running and people can be running different combinations. So suddenly got a lot smarter than our great engineer sitting in a lab and figuring out those tables. And then, you know, from that time then we've brought it to, I think what's just tip of the iceberg now where we start looking at performance across all our systems. What applications am I running? Go set things up so that it works. We talked a little bit about batteries and power management. Hey, how am I using this system? If I am a really mobile person, I'm always, you know, taking my battery down to really low levels, hopping on a plane. I need to be quickly charged. Like the system can figure out, hey, I really need to tune things. Not for, when you go through all the mechanics of a battery, it's like, I am willing to sacrifice some on the longevity of the battery to enable really fast charging of that system. Because Jeff's always on the go. Jeff runs his battery down. I need to make sure when he plugs in he has maximum juice. Hey, here's Sam who's in a work from home mode always plugged in. It's not great on any battery in the world to always be at, you know, maximum charge every single minute of the day. And Sam has not unplugged his system in the past, you know, five days. Hey, we can run that at 95%. And he will have a long life to that battery and be really happy with the system and he's never gonna run out of power. You can start doing it in that space. You can start doing it around sound and the environment that people are in, how we get smart. And I think there's an enormous amount you can do on top of that, like you described of just how people have used the systems and it can sound a little eerie, but like it's what we, you know, the machine suddenly knows how I'm gonna go do stuff. But I'm like, I would like that it to be anticipating what I'm doing. And then it starts taking that mundane stuff that we have to do that just eats up time and, you know, goes and gets that done for us. So we can be focused on the creative and the really pushing the boundaries thinking. I love it. Cause it always goes back to kind of what are you optimizing for, right? And there isn't necessarily one answer to that question. And there's a lot of factors that go into that in terms of the timing. As you said, the person, their behavior, you know, I happened to GPS as I'm at an airport. Probably need to plug in for you in the airplane. It's a good stuff. I wanted to shift gears a little bit, Sam to talk about operating systems. And, you know, Chromebooks are out now. And, you know, it was kind of this breakthrough to go beyond kind of Windows based systems. I think there's a lot of people that, you know, hope at some point will be, you know, have the option to run Linux based systems. But it's just, you know, with a cloud based world and a multi, you know, kind of device interaction with all those different applications, whether it's my phone or my desktop or my laptop or my Chromebook or my whatever. As you started to think about kind of operating systems and opening up, you know, kind of a new level of innovation with the, because the expectation now for like a Chromebook is that it's almost 100% web based apps, right? That there's really not a lot of need for anything local, maybe a quick download of a picture to attach to an email or something. How do you kind of look at the future in kind of operating systems for PCs specifically? Yeah, well, I think as you described, Jeff, the applications and what you're doing on the system has become increasingly important over time and it will only become more important as we go forward. So, you know, from that point of view, Windows, we do work with Windows, we do work with Google and Chrome. I mean, Windows 10 is a really good base operating system. Chrome has a lot of nice capability in that operating system. You know, obviously Apple, a competitor has a different approach in that space. But I think we have a really good set of offerings that we can put on our systems. And then we're focused on tuning that experience on top of the operating system. I think it's still too complicated to go and put a, you know, get a new PC and do a worker home environment, retire the old PC and manage that system. And what we look at is independent of that operating system, people want to go get their stuff done. We need to make that great. They want to get their device, they want to turn it on and they want to go use it. And we want to build a world where like, as I'm getting a new device, my device should know me well enough to go, hey, Sam, this is the right time to get a device. This is the right kind of device that you should get based on what you're going and doing. Hey, I'm going to just keep you up to date. I am going to, you think about any issues with the system. We still have too many things that flow through a traditional, hey, there's an IT help desk and then they figure that out. And then I go to level two or level three, if they can't sort that out. Hey, how do we put that stuff to your point, Jeff, before around intelligence? How do we automate those processes? So we're thinking through what needs to happen on that system, keeping it up to date and fixing and remediating that system. So I think there's a huge potential regardless of what operating system is beneath it. And we have very good choices there to go, we've got to make that experience be one that's great for the users. And that's where we're really focusing our time and our energy. Right. So let me shift gears again, a little bit and full disclosure, I've bought in, I don't know how many XPS towers in a row. I think I'm on my third or fourth in a row. I love it. I mean, I'm a desktop. I like to just pack those things full of as much horsepower and GPU and CPU and memory as I possibly can. Cause to me, again, back to an investment in productivity, I don't want to be waiting for slow machines. It's a couple hundred bucks for this upgrade, that upgrade, it seems brain dead to me that people don't do that. But in terms of when you get these things now and it comes in the mail, it's basically a box and a machine. And you think back to the old days, right? When there was books and warranty cards and a whole plethora of stuff that kind of fell out of that box. I know that's probably a leading indicator on the consumer side about some of your efforts around sustainability and being efficient and obviously taking advantage of things like the cloud in terms of activating these machines and this and that. But I wonder if you can share a little bit on what you guys have been doing about sustainability because I know it's important. There's a big focus around kind of environmental trash on old electronics, which is a real problem that people are addressing. So I wonder if you can take a minute to share your guys' efforts in this area. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, Jeff. It is really important. And we see, you know, arming the world with technology so people can do better things really matters. But I love doing stuff outside like I want the environment to be great and we need to do that in a sustainable and environmentally friendly way. So a couple of places we, you know, pushed really aggressively. You touched on the packaging. So whether that's taking content out of boxes that doesn't need to be there. We've made very aggressive commitments with a series of 2030 goals that we're marching towards as a company where we said, you know, 100% of our packaging will be from sustainable or recyclable sources. So we've already moved aggressively in that space when you look at ocean bound plastic we're putting in our boxes, how we think about the materials that we're picking, you know, cardboard and using that in ways that go through the, you know, the mail and can be shipped effectively. So we have maximum content there that can be recycled. We've committed that we will take back a system for every system that we ship. So getting and building this circular economy for electronics we think is very important. So we take the stuff that we've got out there and we put that back into a recycle process where, you know, your old PC can become part of your new cutting edge technology PC. And we've led the industry in doing that in plastics we're taking plastics from cases and plastics from systems getting that back into new systems. We've done that with precious metals from the PCB board designs inside the systems. We've done that with rare earth metals and magnets. And we think there's opportunity to go farther in that space. And then the third kind of thing that we've committed Jeff is by 2030 to have half the content of our new systems be from recycled or renewable content. And we do a good job today of having the content in the systems be recyclable. It's almost over 90% by weight. But what we wanna do and the work we need to go do is go get that recycled content going into the cutting edge technology that we're putting out there. And it's not, that's not a simple problem of going people want things as structurally strong as possible, as super thin, as performant as possible. And then we need to, we gotta use basically waste that comes through and gets turned into new products. So we have our engineers, our material science people working on how we make that real. And we set some aggressive goals with Michael and the company that will be leadership and that we don't quite exactly know how to get there but put us on the right kind of edge of pushing and doing the things that we need to so we can have great technology and be responsible in the way that, as you said is very important. It's great. And it's good to write it down, right? If you don't write it down then it just disappears into the ether. So Sam, I really enjoyed getting to catch up. I wanna give you the final word with a little bit look to the path and a little bit look to the future, right? A lot of conversation about Moore's law and we got to the end of Moore's law and blah, blah, blah. And I think there's obviously technology behind that and there's some real conversations. But to me, the more interesting topic around Moore's law is really the idea of Moore's law and this continual advancement of technology that's better, faster, cheaper. You've been doing this for 20 years at Dell. You've seen tons of kind of Moore's law impacts and operating in this world where compute store and networking just is on this exponential scale and whether you wanna talk about GPUs or whatever again to me it's not about the number of cores in the transistor. It's about the transistor in the core. It's about really the concept of this working in a world where you know you're gonna have a lot more horsepower to work with. How do you kind of reflect on the stuff that you're shipping today versus what you were shipping five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago? And then more importantly, as you look forward what are you excited about? What gets you up in the morning? What puts a big smile on your face still come to work after 20 years at Dell? Yeah, Jeff, it's a great question because the industry has changed so much over the last 10, 20 years. So it's sometimes a fun thing to look back at some of the products that we put out before that seemed amazing at that point in time and you stack them against what we're doing now and then it can bring you down to earth a little bit. So you see just the exponential improvements that we're able to make around the design of the product, the capability of the products and I see that continuing. The thing that gives me huge thought around the device and the PC and the role it's gonna play at the edge, we just did some research and we were looking at millennials and Gen Z and looking around the world and that is a huge and growing part of the population. It will be the users of technology in the future. With the world we're in today, 45% of them, so almost half of them said they would take their dollars and they want a premium high-end PC experience and they would prioritize that versus other things they'd spend money on to go and have a great PC as a personal tool. So you think about that translating to in a work environment, they're gonna expect those same kind of great tools and then to the question you asked, I see a huge opportunity to continue to push forward the value and the way people use these devices, whether it's the intelligence we talked about that to me is really exciting around building a machine that knows me and does things for me and how I wanna use it. Are going to build immersive experiences so that whether I'm gaming after work, collaborating with coworkers, like how do I put it so that we're together and it's as good as that in-person experience? We're gonna be able to do that with technology. You talked and had great questions around, hey, the ways people interact with the systems, it will become natural, it will become whatever way they wanna go and do that. And I think we can do that in a world where yes, you can walk between all kinds of different devices, there will not be one device to end all, you'll be in a small screen device, you're gonna use a monitor, you're gonna use a PC device, there will be technology across the home. But to have that, have that link together in the role that PC is gonna play in that to me is exciting. And we continue to invest aggressively. Michael saw that when he started the company, we continue to believe in the power of technology and we're gonna figure out and drive those breakthroughs that will make the products exciting. And I love doing that every day of seeing the innovation we can put together and how that makes a difference for people. To me, that's really an exciting thing. Well, Sam, thank you for the update. Again, the rumors of the PC's demise were greatly overstated 10 years and glad to see that you're just kicking tail and doing this exciting thing. So thanks for sharing your insight and your experience with us. Thanks a lot for having me, Jeff. Great to talk to you. Absolutely. All right, he's Sam, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE's continuing coverage of Dell Technology World 2020, the digital experience. Thanks for watching. I'll see you next time.