 Hey, there we go Hello everybody and welcome to something. I haven't done for quite a while, but it seemed like the right time to do it so this is our well today's my 40th birthday and So I was I'll share this story real quick of how this came about I was talking to my wife on Monday I'm a person as I had told the people who are here with me that I'm prone to a bit of Onwe around all these major birthdays and I always tend to spend them alone most milestones in life this is what I've done and And I was like, oh, you know, I don't want to party. I don't like that kind of stuff I don't like people. I don't like those sorts of things like a big fuss being made or I don't eat cake all these sorts of stuff and And I was like, oh, but you know, I feel sad that I'm not memorializing this in some way It is a fairly major milestone. I suppose as much as any other day in the in your life and And she was like, well, why don't you just do a hangout? Then you'll hang out with all the people you really like and I was like, that's a great idea. There it is so thank you to my wonderful wife who gave me this great idea and Thank you to all of you who've sent wishes along and birthday thoughts that means so much to me And I it's so deeply appreciated so we're gonna do a little paint and hangout and there's a bunch of different content creators and people who will join me throughout we're just gonna sit here and Talk and chill and hang out. So there you go All right, so let's let's go. Let's go. Let's do a little roll call first up. Hey, Martin. How you doing, buddy? Hi everybody It's nice to be back on the show. Thank you very much It's good to have you back man And we've got we have good painter storm cast man as well as the man who dubbed him good painter storm cast man It's a whoa twitch. What's going on brother? Hey, what's up? Happy birthday. Thank you, sir Hey, whoa as usual bringing an a-plus hat selection as I was already commenting before the show starts Absolute classic absolutely every time Also joining us from the great white north. He's north of the wall But that's okay. The white walkers have been repelled that we know soon. They'll return. It's moroc wolf. How you doing, buddy? Amen, happy birthday Thank you, sir so the first and most appropriate question we've got to ask here is Where is Tom was the question? This is my Tom is like one of my oldest friends. I've known him since I was 15 I think 16 maybe and And and yet no couldn't clear a schedule. He might pop in at some point in time. So that's fine So what are we all working on? Martin, what's what's on your palette man? What are you doing? What are you working on? First of all, happy birthday. I forgot to say that and as part of my introduction Thank you. Yeah So I'm working on a relic. I found in my hobby vault Just is a little bit a little bit of a break from a games workshop product because I just finished a Legion's of the gas army and just under like five months, which is like unprecedented for me So I'm working on a 75 millimeter some sort of elf king From a company which doesn't appear to exist anymore So usually the case with those kind of boutique minis, especially if they're even you know remotely old That's usually what happened. They came up. They made a couple sculpts that went away. Yeah The last Facebook post they have is of releasing this many in February of 2018 It is a very Warhammer style elf king People can see my Facebook and like social media posts about it I'm gonna be doing something a little bit special just to like, you know Like fulfill that that that urge Chuck has his witch elves and I have my high elves Well, let's face it. We're all glad they're dead. So there you go They they served it and now this is finally justice and I don't think really what's what's been amazing about it Is how few people want any kind of high elves to return? I think that's wonderful Oh, so speaking of which I went I went into my games workshop today. I picked up some battle tomes and some orders and people were asking me about so our giants an army that's coming and I just yelled at the top of my lungs That's right. I think we can confirm that yes, they are and the elves are gonna actually come back as giants I think those two things were absolutely confirmed in the article. No question about it. There we go Just count it on the board now. I'm technically working on a giant elf a 75 millimeter scale. There you go You're already in theme. That is true That's amazing. All right, so that's what I'm working on All right, Joe, what about yourself? What are you working on buddy? Well, my tribes just came out and I played Beast Claw. So I got a terrain piece for my army And you're better than orcs. That's what that says right there because you have But so I got this maw pod right yes, and if you're terrain piece You know some terrain pieces are better than others But if it's lacking you have to make it bigger and more impressive looking and then it feels like it has better rules So we got a maw pod and I'm gonna put this on this and It will be rough It'll be like the exact same base size and so it'd be like a Thunder tusk with a maw pod on its back and that'll be the terrain piece Arguably perhaps one of the better uses for a thunder tusk in the new book. So now I think it's actually the best use But it'll look really cool and isn't that like why we do this is why we do this you're absolutely right Thank you everybody and in the chat by the way much appreciated Thank you all very much Yes, Steve I do hope to fill up the next well, I've only got another 15 years in me. So that's all I've got I'm sure I'm like the I'm like the Cyclops and Krull But at any rate yes, I'm looking forward to see what I can do over the next years Morocco, what's on your desk man? What are you working on? I'm Belting a mask on to a werewolf who's gonna be the great brachium and in my wolves of chaos army Rock I don't want to say you're predictable Because I would mean that only as a compliment, but I could have literally said I should have opened my question with Maroc what type of wolf thing are you sculpting right now and that would have been like I could have nailed that That's a real miss if you part If you would have like asked that question 20 minutes ago, it would have been bases. I made a bunch of bases nice nice Excellent and nothing wrong with making some bases. That's obviously what I'm working on I have my new little palette cam here. So you I don't know you all probably can't see it if you're watching the stream you can see it, but I will mute my phone and look at my phone to see it. Oh, you're all right. You're all right. Looks like we're okay Yeah, there we go. I just realized I was like, wait, why did the video stop? Did it do that thing? No, dumb dumb you just pause the video on the screen. You're watching it on because technology is what I'm good at That's me. That's me and oh, well, that looks great Vince Yeah, it's it's a I got a new little camera specifically for doing this because I thought well It'll be fun to do it like there may be reasons to want to do this on occasion So where I can actually stream and show what I'm working. I just got to figure out I'll probably have to adjust the height so I can get closer, but this is fine enough for this kind of a stream And what base is that for can you not set? Oh, I can say sure. I don't mind at all. I Don't generally key. I'm not Tom I'm not like trying to keep whole army secret because my list tech is so incredible that no one else could have ever thought of what I'm doing. I meant more like as a painter thing because some people like hides different competitions Or if you're working on a project for like, I don't know what the weight work challenge or something I don't know. Well, sure. Yeah, that's the only time I've ever not been able to does two times I've been able to not share a project one was the white dwarf challenge because you're not allowed to you agree to Not share it until they publish it in the white dwarf and Two is a thing that I haven't shared yet. So really, but I kind of did so there you go Yes, I finished up my boat. So here's the this is the this is my freegill general on Griffin So, oh, yes in the the magitek army. Yeah, this is his Griffin Gotcha, and you can see that because right here. It says SS Griffin. Oh, yeah So that way there'll be no confusion which one the Griffin is it's the one that says Griffin on it if you just yeah, you're fine So yeah, I'm pretty happy with how this has come out to a degree I kind of made it this thing in the middle of it and I'm still not sure I like it But obviously there'd be a guy on the front and so now I'm just working base because the guy's a little small to To do detail work on while we're sitting you're hanging out So if I may say it reminds me of that magic expansion, I think it was called Kaladesh That was the one with all of like the the very whimsical airships I don't know if you remember seeing like stuff of it in stores when you buy your product I'll go to Joe Joe is that correct? That's a guy was a it was somewhat of a clockwork Yeah clockwork punk India is how just drive the setting it was pretty pretty cool actually nice That's cool. Yes. I will openly admit it's been it's been some years I still like look every so often a new magic cards I look at the new sets that get released but they don't they don't stick You know what I mean because it's been years and years since I've actively played So now it's just like me looking and going. Oh, that's a neat thing that they're doing. That's cool I like that mechanic when they introduced like quests or whatever in the Or not whatever called sagas sagas. I think whatever it was in that set I thought that was a fun-looking little thing. So just that kind of stuff But yes, nice. Yeah, I like you know I'm not it's not that I'm a huge fan of like some kind of steampunk aesthetic or I'm obsessed with that I'm really not probably in the end It was just it was just something that grabbed me as a fun As a fun concept for an army and that's what you want in the end, right? You just want something that seems interesting. So So there you go right on. Absolutely All right, so gentlemen Let's wait, you know, we I think we should just continue with we've got a few different items here on the docket Oh, there you go. Okay. So Jack has a question for you, Joe What is the drawing behind you of? Uh, would that be the green framed picture? I assume so. There's there's three interesting pieces of art behind Let me look at my own reflection here. Um, so I have I have an Omar Ryan painting Which is the guy with the giant horns that has a little bird on top of them And it's just an artist I like and I met it Jen kind of a long time ago Um, and then I have Clayman from the Neverhood Which is a Douglas Tenapele um Video game claymation video game that he made after earthworm gym Ah, okay. It does look earthworm jimmy. Yeah Like it's you know, it's I don't know came out in 98 or something like that and I found it really creative and interesting Just all around. I think it was the first Fully like stop motion claymation video game. I think it was the first one of that and I got an original, um Ink and charcoal from him on that. So, um I keep it I keep it with me always and then the other one here the big one behind me Is the poster you could send away for from Mike Ditka's power football for the Sega Genesis With it it's like so ridiculous that it's got like some I think bears are like tackling the packers in it Then I don't know it just like Mike Ditka's power football became a meme I suppose amongst me and my friends and it has ridiculous quotes from him on it like 16 megs of power is all I need to win games or something like that And you could send away for the poster and when my friends actually found it and gave it to me Like all these later amazing Uh Original game like kind of right in front of it. Sure. Sure. Sure. Nice. Uh, I love how the first two things are like very artistic and You know, like interesting unique high brow expressions are sort of this This different sort of takes on different kinds of art, but still very artistic nonetheless and then a 90s video game Second Genesis poster I mean it was it's an oil painting. It is an oil painting. Yes That's what's funny too because it was kind of blocked out and I couldn't I was like Oh, it must be some nice oil painting of something because it does you could I could see just like the outer edge of it of the That's amazing You have high art you have cartoon art and then you have memes and that's that's me the three modern forms of art. Yes, correct Yeah, absolutely. Uh, hey, well, guess what? Uh, and Andreas happy birthday. He said it's his or Andreas says it's his 40th birthday today too That's amazing. There you go. Well, uh an auspicious occasion. You were born on a good day. There you go This is uh, this is a good day to be born It's nice you get to Thanksgiving comes on your birthday once every like seven years depending on leap years. So, you know, it's nice Kind of depends on the on the year, but there you go. This year's the farthest away we get So Let's let's uh, let's talk about sort of this, uh Let's talk about this current world. We're living in with warhammer. Okay. Let's just have a little aos discussion Shall we gentlemen? Okay. All right So what I want to talk about is Is the following this has been a good year, right? I think we can all agree on that overall This has been a pretty good year for releases and getting stuff out there. There's been some hits. There's been some misses But on the whole pretty good year fair statement It's a prodigious year. I would even say indeed for 12 books. Yeah It's incredible like aos players are gonna have to Learn not to get used to this eventually because there is a 40k game that this company also makes. Yeah. Yeah Although they've had quite a bit of releases too to be to be They're just blasting sure. Uh, oh my god letter Kenny. Yes Of course, uh The uh, I yeah, yes, obviously all about that show. Um The What would you so so here you go you get to be king for a day All right, and you're gonna give them one piece of advice for the new year What is it? Like with the book making with the direction they're going What's your what's your thing if we're on a sort of inspect and adapt? Mind frame. What would you Tell them they need to work on focus on improve on add whatever do What's your what's your message there? Don't start with me All right, I'll start with whoever you want. It's it's of whoever has an idea can talk first I have an idea. I have an idea, but I'm scared to say it. Oh, okay Okay I'll go um I would like to see them move even further down the path of like When you look at a model and then you look at its rules The rules make sense to what the model is. I want to see that like even more and like take it to 11 Let's see some like crazy shit Okay, so in other words you're saying uh Really push the versatility. Do you want to make sure that that remains? So if we get the when we get not if when we get our our Giant angel elves Right, you want to see things like their ability to use their size their wings to win combats that kind of stuff It's just that sort of thing. Hell. Yeah, I want to see I want to see rules where it's like I don't know. Let's say They've got a special rule called gust where they just like At the start of the combat phase you can make the choice to roll a dice or not On the roll of like a four or five Move the enemy back four inches. Sure things like that. Yeah. Yeah, I got you. Yeah That would be awesome Uh, I will say that You know all the joking about the angel giant elves aside or whatever I would love to see them actually take give a take on Like biblical style angels At some point, uh, like a bunch of wings. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Like what was the what was the magic set that had all the really weird Like kind of whacked out angels the ones that were like, um There might have been a new prexia kind of thing. Yeah, I think it was yes Yeah, like some election ornian, you know odd instead of even number of wings and kind of almost like freakish alien looking thing Because they're not at all. Yeah, like whoever The sterifum and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, exactly I would just love to see a take like that not that I don't love the classic angel because I do and I'm very excited because Speaking of finding old things uh, Emily recently found a Like the statue That was for sarah angel that was made like the special edition statue of sarah angel that's like eight inches tall that was made And she's gonna hook me up with that so I can do a repaint on it Which I am very excited about because sarah angel is the best angel ever I mean, I that was the card that officially sealed my way into magic right there Back in the 90s. I saw that and I was like, oh, this is this is amazing. So So there you go Uh, all right. Good. No, I like that. How big is it? It's like eight inches tall. It's huge. It's really big. It's a big statue. Oh, that's amazing of like a 75 mil basically It wasn't really made to be in scale by modern anything, but it's it's sizable Yeah, I don't have anything to tell them Sculpt wise they're doing they're really just kind of out doing each themselves over and over and um Even it's not just like they keep going bigger and bigger like when with we what we saw with the new chaos Warriors for instance Like that could have been Arguably some people think verand guard might be over designed or busy. We'll say, you know, sure But they're they're showing restraint when they need to but still making stuff interesting and still tying it back to the originals like You know, for instance, the ogre tyrant Is still very mongolian and still you know harkens to the earlier models, but it's still Now that they're on circle bases They're allowed a little room to breathe as far as poses work and that was one of the biggest I think Changes and moving to aos that I really appreciate right Is there's You know, the models aren't so like kind of boxed in a little bit because they're not having to be ranked up so close And so I mean just keep doing what you're doing on the models. Obviously, right Um as far as books. Yes I think a little more consistency Might be in order. I hate to be a wet blanket here But um It's that's okay. We can always inspect and adapt. That's the idea There might be a group of books that seem designed under the idea that this is how like interesting and How many boundaries we can push and how like powerful a book can be And then there's another set of books That have a different idea of about like what the power level of aos should be and they're kind of at odds with each other And there's a gap there I was gonna say a little more like Communication inter team Or some overruling body that can really just look at everything and be like, okay. Now. Let's let's consider The entire landscape and just kind of smooth some stuff over there. But um Then again, I make videos complaining about balance. So of course I would say that It's on brand for you. That's all right on brand You gotta stay on brand and thank you to everybody who's saying happy birthday. That's that's amazing and and so much appreciated Uh, all right, martin. What's your what's your thing? Um, I uh, just to add on to hey woes thing because I was gonna say something similar. I just didn't want to be like, um, it's party pooper Uh, it's all right. Look, this is done in a friendly nature. This is constructive criticism No, yeah, I do enjoy like I do decide. Let me say that real quick. Like, yeah, okay Like really I want to drill on this but not to interrupt but I just want to drill on this real quick You know if I go to like a painting competition or something Do do however I do It doesn't matter Win lose place don't Metal don't doesn't matter. I still get feedback from the judges and it's always going to be like The feedback is gonna be like, well, I like this. This is nice. This thing's here But here's what you can do better. We can always keep improving There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to keep introspecting and improving That's just what we should always be doing in our life and our professional career and everything and everything, right? Like that's let's just we should be on a journey of improvement always at any rate continue. Yeah um So the one thing I will say it's like I really do enjoy the commitment to like sort of finishing up the reboot this year And I know we're about like three books away. I think like serif on ko and zinge think of the last ones That still have the a was one banner on them and it's like I I I did not expect that And as someone who grew up in war ember fantasy like I picked up more ember fantasy like in 2010 And I was used to so in that entire time I played fantasy until like aos for like five years I got two books And so it was like I got high elves were like that was their book from like 2000 And then They got another one in 2013 and then the world blew up So the fact that like all of these things Like and and not just like moving along the the the balance of the game because this is a strategy game And we we we are enjoying like these constant updates and new armies Um, like I I don't think anyone really expected bone reapers when when the open day came around or it's like What could that be? Uh, so it's like when when hey, what was talking about Then no longer having to be in these rank and flank poses. I just finished painting 30 graveyard They all have the same exact pose You cannot build them another way and they are built to be diagonally in front and back of one another And I painted high elves for the longest time, which look which are just like cool chess pieces They have their spear which is either Sort of forward or upright all of the sword masters. They are one pose models because their sword is upright When they revisit them and they get to put all of these models on 35 40 50 millimeter bases They're going to be all over the place within sorts of detail and wind direction and stuff. I can't wait to paint Um, uh, so it's like I keep doing that. It's great. But um After playing now Stormcast and then legions of negash had a few events I would which are 2018 tomes I would like to see some things like free cities Where a little bit more future proofing is I think the best way to put it into like one word Where if you guys have if the developers have an idea of where they want to take the game I think that they should um At least put some goodies in the books to think about that or it's like well This is this is all this army is going to get for maybe like now instead of five years. It's two years Uh, you know what I mean? And it would it would be nice if I felt like I was bringing uh A decent book to an event instead of well, I have a 2018 book Which has answers to 2017 problems and we're living in a 2019 world Like a lot of these armies have pylon and attack twice abilities And I don't know if I think there's one trick which legions of negash has that does that and nothing that stormcast does So I mean, I'm glad I'm not a game designer because it just took me five minutes to say all that I'm sure And I'm sure someone who actually knows what they're doing would be able to articulate that a lot better Well, it's it's no it's fair Uh, and I agree like the slaves of darkness to me are it's an interesting case because I love new stuff and like Joking aside on the giant angel elves like if they really did do a giant army or whenever the Heish elves whatever shape they take them out or you know, like I love you know, I'm all over that Like I'm waiting of course. Oh, yeah Giant elven women is no joke I I would I would love anything like that. I love the idea of what the mortal realms gives us to explore Uh, you know, I've talked many times about how my world of choice in uh You know in these in these in this stuff is planescape So planescape was always my favorite thing in d&d Uh, I love the variance of it the philosophy of it the way that the planes if like by the way so much of like the mortal realms is is like I don't want to say sourced but uh homage echoes of the same ideas where like if you if you're on a plane that plane tends to Have its impact on you it pushes back. It's not just a place you live Right same here with the mortal realms So like I love the idea that they're huge and vast and that we can just introduce whole new races Armies that just weren't really there or they're hidden because no one can ever really conquer all of it, right? Um Also, it'll be a lot harder for cast to blow this one up, you know, that's tough So it's as many it's pretty big it's tougher to explode So they got that going for them And I'm surprised that my thread about the elves like after that article dropped I'm surprised it got as many hits as it did Even though I tried to show like the first post is the the conspiracy board from it's always sunny Like this is supposed to be a joke Like these aren't really clues, but they could be Um, and a lot of people were like picked up on that and we're are excited. So when it does drop I think it'll be well received by the community But at the same time, I'm super excited about that slaves to darkness Yeah release because they really did Re-invigorate those models, but they still feel like those models You know, they just they feel like that Hell yeah, those new chaos warrior cast night. I've always loved just through a modern lens of design, right? Yeah Speaking of yeah, those the new chaos warriors are freaking sweet like yes. Yes. They are yeah They're amazing. Go ahead, Joe Oh, yeah, I was going to say speaking of planescape. Um, Tony D to Lizzy's art was a big part of that And for me it would be it's probably formative art It was some of the first like art that I really got into and like tried to meet him at gen con and stuff like, um Planescape was was completely awesome Let me ask you a question. Did you end up meeting him at gen con? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I met him a few years and uh, he's one of those guys his wife is His wife is super cool. He's super cool and he actually remembered my name from one year to the next with his impossibly impressive to me because i'm the kind of person That shakes someone's hand and asks what their name is and they say words, but it they just disperse Right, like it's it's immediately gone. I have I have trouble remembering people's names. Yeah, I can somehow remember Like 20,000 magic cards and most of the war scrolls and you know all these details, but somebody's name It's just gone. So to me that was That was one of those impressive things. I guess he's just always meeting people so he gets a bunch of practice, but No, he was he was cool That's awesome. Yeah, it's like that is honestly one of the better and cooler things about Uh, gen con is just meeting all those artists who by the way So often get ignored. It's shocking to me Like yeah, I would bet there was nobody at his his booth or whatever when you walked up Or there was maybe like one other person staying there talking to him All the times I've gone and talked to the artist that I love and that I'm mind blown to talk to There's like maybe one person there. Maybe nobody, you know, it's just kind of like not much going on And I'm just like wow, how how how is this happening? Yeah, exactly Do you think that's maybe because in the early 2000s and I'm just like how is no one talking to you like this is Crazy, right Go ahead and rock. What were you gonna say? Do you think that that's maybe because people are like intimidated to go and talk to these like crazy good painters? No, I don't know. I think they just don't want to get roped into buying something And they're just uh, they're like, oh, okay. This is this is the art aisle. I'll just turn around now Yeah, I really think it's it's just that like they're not interested. Yep. Yep. I think that's exactly right I mean you watch like the artist alley in in At gen con which by the way, it's just full of so many amazing people and like I I've met him as well I don't know how to say his last name. Tony Yeah, Peter Lizzie. Yes. Thank you. He has a very complicated last name and I'm bad at names Uh, but he again, I completely agree with you. He's one of my favorite artists of all time His art is so Like integral to me into why I loved that world Right. Yeah, just the way he brought it to life The so for example, like modern are one of my favorite things, I guess ever Okay, and who did who did he paint for? For well, it would have been tsr back in the 90s. Yeah, he was doing yeah for playing scape and a lot of the second edition monster manual Yep. Oh, this is the watercolor looking looking stuff was was him. Yes. He just had a wonderfully imaginative He's the one who ended up doing what's the what's the very famous Torchwick, what's that? Torchwick. Yes. I think yes. There you go So like he's done a bunch of other stuff outside of that in like realms where other people would come to know him But but like his style is very unique. Yeah Okay, but I was it was just d&d was what I was looking for gotcha. Yes, okay and uh Like modern are pretty much the greatest thing in the history of the world and the reason that That race that said that species that whatever Looks as cool as it does is because of basically his reimagining right because when you look at the earlier art before that of them, it's Shall we say dumb And then he came in and took this silly concept of living You know Shapes basically right cubes and circles and triangle people and just made them amazing and funny and Weird and just awesome all at the same time So just yeah, I love everything about that guy's work But like him elmore I walked out like phil foglio who was another one from like early magic cards was an absolutely hero of mine Because he always had just the most wonderfully creative hilarious art that always made you smile You know, yeah foglio was a little pulpy like pulp humor. Yes. Yeah, which was one Like his uh, what was that? What was the one of the like goblin I was like artisans or something. I don't remember exactly what it was But the one with them all sitting there looking at blueprints That I always thought was just like the funniest piece of art so Anything goblin related in magic was always pretty fun Uh, yeah, so exactly it's a it's a great. It's a great excuse I'm sad now when I go there and I see that most of them are like doing most of the artists have to do uh Basically like magic art art like that's the That's the thing now just selling little dollar special art cards And then some dude walks up Cards and is like, can you please sign all these in the same way? Thank you and just leave um, if if I just may like inject a little bit of like uh, uh, like a maybe a positive note So I went to a Star Trek convention on my birthday weekend with my mother and uh, for those who don't know My mother used to help run world con World con is this is for the audience. Sorry I've already told told the story to vince and joe and everybody World con is the original science fiction famously cool parents. Yes Yeah, actually Yeah, um, uh world con is the original science fiction and fantasy literature convention You can go look it up on wikipedia The only I think they started in 1929 and the only years they were not running were the years of world war two And they used to have like original like artists like asma Like you can go find this stuff on youtube because the earliest days of the internet all of those web zones like the earliest websites They're all still online. You can know all of the stuff is still googleable Um, so like asma of um, arthur c. Clark um, who wrote starship troopers, uh The original book Yeah, I can't remember the hind line. There we go. Yeah hind line hind line and people like that and um, all of them were like would be guests of honor and those like, um conventions like world con transformed into like the like starting star trek and the star wars conventions and um, so I went to one of these there's there They're generally you would only have you have to be in the fandom like to understand like where these are It's not like a lot of these I would say have embraced social media as well as like full gaming events have Um, and so I went to this one in in maryland. Um, I think it's hunt valley it was called shoreleaf and all of these old school style dealers rooms were just like people who either at one point in time worked professionally as artists or Had like might might just be someone who has a lot of talent And once a year when they're not selling their stuff online has a booth at these conventions Not only do they they make like just art like portraits, but you can buy Like carved boxes goblets like there are silversmiths. There are Leather crafters any sort of like imaginative like Cool stuff. You can think of it's for sale at these conventions. I really recommend them for people nice Yeah And yes, like a million people shouted out high in line in the comments. So there you go. Good our audience I'm glad to see our audience is well informed Yes, although look You know speaking of starship troopers. I'm just gonna say real quick I do love the movie and find it to be a wonderful piece of satire That I think is underrated. So there you go. That's what I'll say about starship troopers Oh, it's it's completely amazing anti-fascist satire and um The greatest irony is all of all is that the audience didn't realize it when it came out, right? Right, right. Absolutely. I mean you watch it. I don't know how people miss it Like it's just it's so It's it's like one of the least subtle things Verhoeven ever did and yet Sometimes I guess it's it's one of those troubles of satire. How do you the line between satire and uh And and seriousness can sometimes be easily lost I suppose I mean even robocop was pretty blatant, but it was more low-key than starship troopers one, right Right Uh, absolutely So returning back, you know what I think my singular, uh thing would be I think my singular thing if I had to pick sort of Uh kind of one One piece and I'm assuming I'm not going to double up because I like all of yours Okay I think my one thing I would say is I want to see something truly Truly like unique in the next year And what I mean by that is like the world of Warhammer, especially as it was the world that was Has often been very tightly constrained to some classical fantasy con concepts now Stuff like chaos demons and things like that have done good those aren't original But there are still good concepts that were that were fleshed out into original ways Like I understand that you know a lot of the concepts of the the chaos demons and those kind of gods were really drawn from like Michael Moorcock and stuff like that But I would love to see something that just that I look at and I just never would have seen coming Some sculpt some army some something that just feels completely the mortal realms Uh, you know deep kin were great, but they're still just elves. They're wet elves, but they're still just elves, right? I want to see something that's not an elf. That's not Tolkienian in any way Uh You know to me like like the revelation I had the first time I saw Modern or you know that that kind of a thing where it's just such a whacked out concept right So yeah, something like that And yeah, they build up to it. They're ready. They've come close a couple of times. Oh sure like we're getting there We're primed, right? Yeah, we're ready. They finally got they finally got all the old stuff out of the way So like now is their chance if they've been building up to it. They put themselves in the position to start doing it yeah Like truly do something that is the mortal realms that is unique that is you guys like Let one of the sculptors let tom walton or somebody just go nuts You know get get like get darren in there and have him just go completely crazy With uh with any with the most whacked out idea he's had, you know and just say okay, this is the time What do you got? Uh, I okay, so with that said Yes So with that said what uh What would be your like craziest most whacked out idea? Oh my god It's so hard right because it's like saying create something Just to return to uh uh Just to return to the idea of this it's so hard to make something truly original like like modern or You know like when when dark elves sort of like drow in d&d came and there's been a couple times like that Where they've made shodderkai were probably one Where they made a race and they made this new thing cut from whole cloth sort of And it just hit I remember there's a great article about things that had traction And like they were seeking when they were entered when they were doing third edition. They were trying to make new Races that had traction Okay, wherein it became something like that where people got obsessed with it and uh rosewater did an article about this too At some point when he was talking about how he never knows what's gonna hit in the specific elements in uh In magic cards like especially within art and things like that because there's like some wasn't there some little homunculus in a set? Oh, he's talking about fibble. Thib. Yes. Fibble. Thib. Yeah That was a surprise, but they just let it go in there Because oftentimes the little details are what people fall in love with like what he talks about in his His speeches. Yes, exactly. So so, you know, fibble. Thib was like a little weird what one-eyed homunculus. He kind of looked like Like uh, uh, Mike Wachowski right from uh from monster zinc a little bit. Yeah, yeah And he just like became this sort of weird, uh mascot that people really loved seeing him And so they just started slipping him into more cards as time went by But always in the background just the art or like the flavor text of it like he never It was never like a spell. They never made like Fibble tips revenge or you know things like that for for most of the life of this thing's popularity People would just try to find him in the background of art and like knit pillows and stuff out of him and make fan art and stuff and eventually they did turn him into A card, you know, so now there is a fibble tip that you can play but It took a long time to get to that place right and it naturally or like wajowski looks like him not the other way around Sorry, sorry fair enough Uh, I I I didn't mean to impugn fibble tip in any way. I I do apologize But yeah, so it's just it's the point is it's hard to say and I get it That's the risk right you make a whole new army and it doesn't hit Right like the advantage to just doing like more elves and dwarves and crap like that is that As wrote as those concepts are they've stood the test of time, you know what? I mean like they're they're good for a reason the reason when people try to rewrite superman. It usually fails is because Superman's a good idea. He just clicks like he's designed. He's correct already You can't he's very hard to improve upon in any way, right? Yeah I really want a famous thing for 80 years in all culture Go ahead. Yeah, I I really want to see like them do Like I want to see them bring all of this new technology that they have to make these amazing miniatures and put it into one army like I Like we kind almost had it with beast claw raiders. I want to see the monster army like I want to see Just Huge lumbering beasts Moving across the fucking table and just mow and shoot it down like that It's it's the one thing it's missing Like ages to Mar Knights where it's like you got these five like Crazy kaiju creatures, you know Hell yeah Yeah, I mean that's the that is the thing right like there there is that missing hole in aos of it would be Neat if we actually legitimately had a sort of knight equivalent I think the closest thing right now is probably in vcr and fec Right where you can run like the five big flappies or the six monster trucks That's that's night esque, right? And then and then use that to segue like well what fights these things then what hunts them What does whatever right like use it to move into something else after we have got these in the lore, right? So there's even there's even a full tie in there to be like children of the god beast or something like that right already right already in Yeah And and by the way, I would argue that this is this space can be found. Here's my proof Sphyranks Okay, that's phyranks model that they revealed that was it like at the same time they showed the slaves to dr Oh the the the demon lafa. Yeah, the cat llama demon That thing yeah was incredible like that thing was amazing looking and You know is Lov in the in the chat raised a good point like is anything truly original is an everything derivative of something Sure, sure. I mean, of course Yes, but at the same time you can still have a good take on something that makes it feel like a breath of fresh air That makes it feel original, right? um I would say a good example of something that's like a breath of fresh air Which like captivated like a generation of imaginations was fallout What if you take mad max plus the jetsons and that was like, oh my god And it became this thing. Sure. I mean that is star wars, right? It's completely derivative and yet absolutely captivating. Yeah, yeah It's just world war two movies that that are the sum of which are shot for shot re-put in with space lasers and stuff, right but like It's a war two plus flash gordon plus kurosawa equals Space opera star wars, right? Yeah yeah um But you know, so it's sometimes it's just about combining or sometimes about reframing and all that kind of stuff Uh, and so there's a lot of different options. By the way people are uh People are talking in the comments. Let's let's let's look at some comments here of our viewers original ideas Let's not look at the comments All right, so let's see uh All right. I'm just going back to the beginning duckenoids. All right. Yep. So duck people sure That's just the thing a lot of it's just like well Let's make different animal people and animal people are just like, okay Although given I was captivated by like lupin from red steel when I was uh When I was a kid. I don't know if anybody else knows what red steel is. It was a dnd world You want to hear a fun story about red steel? Here's a fun one. This is my show. I talk about whatever I want Here's a fun story I loved red steel. It was one of my favorite campaign worlds to play in when I was a teenager And in my moves over college, I managed to keep most of my dnd books, but somewhere I lost my red steel box set So this year this last year like three months ago or whatever at gen con I uh, I went to Uh, I went to the booth found a nice mint cherry copy of red steel and bought myself a replacement Right. I was like, I like this thing. It's not that expensive. I'll get myself a new copy of red steel Fair enough. So I'm leaving the convention. This is on sunday end of the day checking out of the hotel And it's now back So anyway, uh, so he looks down This guy looks down. He says, oh, do you like red steel? And I said, oh, yeah, you know, I love doing as a teenager blah blah blah I repeated the same thing I just did And he said that's cool. I wrote that And it was it was tim the guy who wrote red steel. I was like, oh my god, that's amazing So he and I had this short conversation That was great to meet him I still need to reach out to him and like go find him on facebook or something and and say hello But it was just awesome to to meet this dude and completely random that the guy who wrote the module Walk was staying in my hotel and happened to walk outside in the two minutes I'm standing there and then he walks away and then all my friends come out and they're like, all right You're ready to go. It's like you guys will never believe what just happened. It was crazy So and I have no I have no proof of this so I could totally be lying, but I'm not lying. So there you go Anyway That was a long tangent, but that's what this is. Yeah, we were talking about what we wanted at a war hammer and what you want is like, uh Crawlfish people with like magitech guns. Yeah, but see that's not like I don't just want to like take people plus Yeah Yeah, it needs to be more abstract Uh, so let's see elemental armies eh meh you know and like So so Dave said all fantasy tropes have been utterly exhausted. I'm not seeing anything groundbreaking for decades I don't I think that's being ungenerous man Like there's a lot of groundbreaking stuff out there. Go look at like what monnie cook is doing or people like that like they've made some really incredible worlds with with really interesting takes on fantasy and just you know, really really interesting stuff, but I mean The reality is the audience seems to just want mostly the same stuff Right, that's the challenge Is it's not a challenge of can people create it it's do it does anybody Does anybody actually want this different interesting stuff or are people just going to keep wanting more elves and dwarves and orcs and stuff stuff Maybe we should um dip into I I don't want to be like we a boo alert or we've alert A lot of typical Tolkien fantasy is based on Western Like folklore And I think if we want to dip in not just Japanese stuff because A lot of pop culture has had japan fever for the past 20 years Maybe like china or southeast like southeast asia like things from like weird stuff out of thailand and and Like all of these places where it's like what what sort of magical creatures did they conjure up like 2000 years ago and something like that I think is right for By creating in fictional worlds sure. No, absolutely Uh chaos halflings salon with laser pistols and swords cat llamas skeleton halflings Frog and turtle people. I'm just looking back through our through our uh through our uh through our options Yeah, we'll be back. I don't know why that's happening folks. I've tried like 10 different settings to make it stop doing that I don't know why it's not. I don't know why it's doing that. So there you go Uh, but I'll I'll keep messing on with it Uh, let's see Oh, yeah, I do still want to see a true gold faction too. Absolutely like uh Gold faction. Yes a gold faction like a singular faction That is valid under two different grand alliances Okay, oh Okay So like an example of that might be something like There's a person who's in order But they're secretly also a cast servant and you can play them under an as an order army or as a cast Yeah, um, I was waiting for um In in the original like ages sigmar stories like boom year one out of the gate. Yeah, there's no points But we're gonna keep telling the story anyway um Manfred gets away from storm cast with zombie ogres And I was waiting for there to be a way to have like Like some sort of italian where you can take manfred von karstein And zombie ogres and they could double dip into different grand alliances Because that's a thing like a lord relic dare has an argument with a The soul of an ogre because it is too dumb to know that it passed away And it was kind of funny Nice Yeah But I uh, I that's what I thought you meant when you were like dipping into two different grand alliances Yeah, it's more that just like, uh And also when it comes to like culture things I think the answer there is just why limit yourself to one like they already started playing with this in the, uh They already started playing with this with stuff like the with the bone danis, right Where it's hard to search them to one culture, but you can feel lots of influences from different ones That's what I also liked about war hammer's interpretation of high elves Is that you can tell this is sort of Tolkien turned up to 11 But it that's only accurate up to a certain point. There's a little bit of persia There's a little bit of like these different terrestrial analogs And I know that sort of thing like puts you to sleep because you wanted like more imagination instead of it just being like but uh The old world of war hammer was in like great swaths based on Olds like like medieval cultures. You know what I mean? Yes, I do. It was certainly derivative. I agree Yeah And in certain ways, I did appreciate that in terms of how the like the end product was Um achieved with high elves and I hope that they stick with that at least a little bit but who knows because um I think for like they I don't want to um I don't want to quote rob because like, you know rob simes in one of his videos with when he did his old world video And he um and I don't know if he has information I don't or if he was just like because he actually worked for games workshop I did not and he said that a lot of he he equated um Sorry, let me put it this way He said that the reason they did the reboot of the setting was because of the chapter house lawsuit And they wanted to be able to copyright more things And I don't know if that's necessarily why they did it because it's like there's a lot of reasons why they did it and um If you look at the the 12 books that came out this this year Like clearly absent are the most tulking inspired races out of all of the properties games workshop developed and during war hammer fantasy and now Like specifically those factions Are the only ones left And there's a lot more design space. They feel comfortable exploring now that they've made really crazy armies Like deep kin like ko like bone reapers so We will have to wait and see if they Kind of play it safe like warriors of chaos where it's like we're gonna tastefully update these models Or if they go Like really crazy. It's very it's very classy stay classy What happened updating them? Yeah I like the way you put that it's just a fun way to put that It's not an insult. I was just like it's that's kind of like they specifically said it's like we didn't really want to Mess with what chaos warriors look like sure. Well, it should be pointed out that chaos warriors are like They're the Design because like chaos warriors were what? Uh Was like the big thing that got identified with them originally when they went and decided to do sci-fi like Their goal was to uh Was to create a Uh A silhouette and an image Uh a singular thing That was that did have as much traction and was as iconic um as The uh as the chaos warrior and that's where the space marine came from Yeah, like he was based on they were trying to reimagine like a chaos warrior in This science fiction world and so they came up with the the space marine and then we came back around and obviously then we looked at the the Storm cast eternal and that just that continues on right that continued They're they're swaths of archaion like classic archaion's armor design Like if you have the archaion on foot or horseback Especially like in the legs and the hip plates a lot of the storm cast have that but just with like more like fancy curves instead of the Kind of unwelcome or like dangerous looking spikes right Yeah, yep So yeah, I say go nuts take them off the chain. That's what I say right on I will I will do I will do the citizen cane clap in in the in the room at adepticom if it is high elves If you if you finally get your high elf announcement Yes, sure. It'll be like me when the slanesh announcement happened. Yes Yeah, and just hopefully not with the people like I get that the people were having fun But during the sisters thing they actually threw their wallets at at andy and p. I was like really I I thought that was a different thing they threw their wallets at them for yeah, that was for sisters, but like Yeah, that was for we were at nova. We were sitting next to each other. They were right behind that I remember them throwing their wallet. I just didn't think it was sisters related I thought it was one of the other things they announced but okay. No, it was for sisters. Gotcha fair enough That is actually pretty funny though. So wait that That that's kind of funny, but yeah, the other guys stood up and literally tossed their wallets up at andy and p Who then proceeded to take the money out of it and give it back to him? Like I mean like you you throw somebody a wallet full of money. What do you think's gonna happen? I don't know what you know should know better The alms. I don't blame him at all. That's just that's just a contribution Uh-huh Yeah, thank you your sister's box will be in the mail in six years Well to be fair they were giving everybody in that room a free sisters of battle figure. So which was pretty awesome That was pretty cool of them Uh, that was a very nice thing Yes. Oh, yeah, I I I hope that does not become a regular thing because I like that it was like the special thing that they were doing I don't want people to be like Well, I definitely need to be in the room because they're probably going to give us a free model in the room Well, that's a a free bonus once becomes an expectation But yes, the real problem is going to be a fee like I know for a fact that if a bunch of people put them on ebay They won't do it again Yeah, that's that's your real problem right there So So there you go eBay is a problem I mean it is what it is. It's just like I get the dynamics of it But I think you should probably probably like I get it if you want to go sell your thing. That's super cool I'm fine with that like I understand I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be that guy who says like, you know, it's once it's your thing You can go sell it but they were on there were literally some of them on ebay Uh within 10 minutes of that session ending Yeah, see like I I don't know if it's it's just feels in poor taste Not saying don't eventually sell it on ebay. Maybe just like You know wait like a little bit like be kind of You know Don't don't Don't spit in the face of somebody who just gave you a gift. It feels like is what you're doing there kind of you know So Like if you're yeah, like I I don't know if it's just because I'm of the type of person I am or not But like that would be something that like if if I had no use for it I would give it to someone who would get some use out of it. Of course like absolutely Yes, a hundred percent a hundred percent that like just to find somebody else the con who didn't get a go to that and be like Oh, hey, buddy. I know you like sisters like maybe but maybe these people don't have any friends. I don't know It's okay. Maybe you don't have friends That that all being said Um, we are going to be going to adapt to con where it's normally 400 people in the room It's gonna be a thousand this year and I was in a chat and a certain a certain Person who will be presenting there Did not know it was a thousand people and he asked me to check again And I just showed him the spreadsheet and he was like, well Guess we'll definitely have an audience for our stuff then Uh, hey good. Yeah No, I just I just think it's like that's crazy. I've never I've never I'm used to I'm used to these being a little like smaller Like 300 people in a room is one thing a thousand people in a room That's almost like well, it's not Hall H. But it's it's definitely big for games workshop. Sure Somebody asked a hobby question, which is what's a good undercoat for Purple and pink miniatures. Uh, my answer would be a traditional zenithal Maybe with a little bit of purple In an anti zenithal like shoot up from below With with the purple and that's perfectly fine for purple to pink. It sets the tone appropriately No flash tone Uh You're saying like oh for that like use flesh tone as one of your higher highlights You mean like as part of the zenithal sure you could you can go nuts with that stuff Like there's no you could play all over the place Like you could actually use you could use a flesh tone if you want it to be softer and feel more warm and magenta You could also use like an ice blue if you wanted it to feel Kind of cold at the top at warm at the bottom right go for like a a deeper warmer purple But then use like a cold blue at the top You know what I mean like you could go nuts There's I don't I don't think there is a bad answer to questions like that It's just you I mean like there's some colors that just don't work But my point is like you can kind of play around and have a good time with different with different, uh Different recipes So it's best to just experiment I actually have an interesting hobby question for you vince, but it might require a photo reference So if you're gonna be like I need to see it then I'll just ask you it later Go ahead So I'm working on the elf right now and I want to incorporate like different elf themes like elves from this universe And this one just into one model Um and for um elder scrolls elves Have sort of like yellow eyes like if you took someone's eyeball and like dyed it like with a little bit of like iodine So instead of a white it's like this very kind of pale gold Would you just for like a miniature of the scale just use like yellow eyes and then just dot it with like a very dark brown For the black. You know what I mean? Are there their eyes aren't actually gold their eyes are yellow right like just Like cat eyes Um, no like uh, this is my where I might be um instead of the whites of their eyes It's like sort of like um, uh, a yellow brown And then the actual where it would be eye color It tends to be like either gold or green or blue or something like that. They don't actually have white in their eyes Hmm Yeah, I would just make it a uh, I would go for something deeper like an ochre it'll show up better Yeah, like they look jaundiced. Thank you narcolepsy in the comments. Yes. That's literally what I was thinking too Is that they look jaundiced? Yeah But yeah, like just I would use like a deeper ochre and just put a light coat over it I I'd I'd actually do it in brown first like a sort of warm A warmer brown first and then I put the ochre over that like just in the same way as you'd normally do like a darker You know purple black or something at that and then and then put the gray or ivory eyeball over it So you have that nice dark line around it Yeah, well, that's what I'm gonna do right now because I just finished the skin. There you go Somebody asked if I was drinking on my birthday. No, I don't drink at all. I haven't I haven't had a drop of alcohol for Not quite 20 years but almost so there you go Uh, I had I had a sip of alcohol to toast my wife at our wedding in 2003. So there you go So you you were Dancing with adam at that last convention there. I saw a video and that was with no drop of alcohol No, that's stone cold sober buddy That's amazing. Was that a nova? Yeah, I like I said, I have I have not been intoxicated or inebriated in any way shape or form for quite a long time So, yeah, no, it's great because I remember everything Everything people when you're there at nova and you're acting like a loony toon I remember it all So that's uh, that's just that's just a good way to make sure that I always stay on the top of the information war Oh, it's got something to hold for people just in case Vince has his own black male folder. Yeah, I'm on nilla envelope. Yeah Um Tom asking about the can con classes because I'm teaching a can con Yeah, I'm gonna put together a little information packet for travis to put out here very soon I just needed is is tom in the comments, but he can't make it to the stream different tom This is a tom a gentleman in australia who is who is attending the classes. I'm teaching a can con I'm gonna put together a little uh information packet for everybody for the two classes So, you know what to bring So don't worry look for that soon Oh, this is turning out to be like way more than I bargained for Oh What is oh, yeah, when does adepticons stuff go live? That's the december There we go You think that's the day after packs You're not going to packs right vince. I do not Yeah It's one of those weirder conventions My games workshop will be there, but they will be doing paint and takes and stuff They are not running any events the local philadelphia clubs are running events Um, they're welcome to it. I did it last year and I'm not doing it this year Okay Yeah, I will be playing though. So hopefully uh, I can continue my uh my streak of uh, at least doing well with paint Nice Right on Now joe and maroc are both maroc still here. You're just a little bouncing ball now, which is fine Yeah, I turned my camera off because everything was going all Stupid, so I could be a wolf. It's just as much you that image is just as much you You brought this on yourself, but go ahead So, um, I've been like I had a local event or whatever that I went to and I um I took this like really weird, um Piece of chaos list using the dark walkers, okay, and uh Nothing about that. It actually so far Yeah, it it actually did like Pretty good like because it just jumped around the board avoided as much combat as I could and grabbed objectives and such So It's kind of like ballooned into me redoing everything Okay, and so like I went from having like a very Small force with like a some best of gore and on gore and stuff to now it's like 150 models, so I'm just like Kind of overwhelmed with the amount of wolves that are sitting on my table right now Yep So rob asked have so real quick here. I'll talk to a couple different topics that went up Uh Let's see is your demonstration ogre from all of your videos making his final appearance for the army. No, he's still fine He's right here. Homeboy's still good to go. He's he he did not join the force He might get converted someday into something special for the ogre army, but he's still here He's actually not in the completed army back behind me over my shoulder here, which they're all up there now Demonstration ogre Yeah, the ogre who appears in so many of my videos like this little guy who's been repainted like 80 times You can't oh, oh, oh, yeah Yes Used him for skin used him for tattoos. Absolutely that guy. He's got a long and and And and prodigious history absolutely Um, no, he's still around he might get converted if if the reason was I didn't just want to make him some random Glutton that seemed insulting so someday I'll I'll probably if I'm bored I'll put it like I like working on characters for armies and just adding characters to my existing armies It's just fun to kind of screw around and add additional characters. That's why I have basically six of every scaven type of hero like I've got six claw lords and four regular engineers and two bombardiers and Six assassins and blah blah blah blah blah blah like four arch warlocks Because it's just a fun side project to do stuff like that to just hit a character up Uh, so he'll he'll probably get converted into a tyrant. He deserves to be a tyrant if he's gonna if he's gonna join in He's he's he's been far too far too storied. He's got many big names. It's It's Probably like I got to imagine for you. That's like a just like a straight up palette cleanser, right for all the competition pieces Correct. Yep. That's exactly how I use it and you're exactly right Like when you're when you're doing a lot of like competition models constantly it gets like really overwhelming And so it's just fun to like stop and paint something that's by the way, it's the same for doing an army Right. I think we've all felt that um where like if you're really you know Uh If you're really like locked in and working hard on an army for a long time It just becomes a grind, right? So whether it's one force for a long time where you're not you're not doing like 80 or 100 hours a model or whether it's like, um You know, you're trying to work on on a golden demon model You do have to put 120 hours into or something and you just want to die in the middle um Those little things where it's like i'm going to take a day Maybe like eight to ten hours and paint a scaven hero. That's unbelievably relaxing so Wait, I imagine like It's got to be nice just to like okay. Well, I don't really have a plan for going into this So i'm just going to throw paint at it until I like how it looks it's got to be hugely different from Doing a competition piece where every single piece of the miniature is planned out ahead of time before you put paint to model Yeah, I don't know that I plan that much like that I mean kind of I do a lot of pre research is how I look at it. I think about colors But I always I always always always end up changing things halfway through like things end up moving I don't think I've ever had a competition model that really came out exactly like I thought it was going to um It just ends up being that like you get into the actual paint And you're like, oh wait actually this thing would look better over here or whatever But I spent a lot of time looking at reference more for like palettes and colors and things like that So I get it. It's a little I'm a little from column a and a little from column b, right? There are people like uh like Yeah, Ben Cantor who like will digitally do the whole model before he ever puts You know paint to brush and then he's basically just recreating what he did what he spent hours and hours and hours and hours on digitally creating Um, which is cool. I found that that's good at that I can't do that though. I found that that like after Like I I sat down and watched like a almost all of james waffles content that he's put out for the last little while and uh I found that after doing that it's like changed the way that I paint almost completely Yeah, like yeah, just the way like I'm using a size Six brush now instead of yes, you know now you're in the right place like Yeah, like much larger and it's I find that I'm using Like way way way thinner paint than I was before I'm using more inks and stuff now like it's just I don't know and it feels liberating too because I'm Literally just chucking paint at the model until it looks the way I want it to and it just I don't know It's it's much nicer than all right. This color has to go here and it can't bleed out at all and right No, no, that's it's it's such a more like Sort of bob ross. Just let it, you know, just feel it kind of thing. Yeah 100 yeah Yep Um, yeah, absolutely Uh, so speaking of ogres, uh, joe have you gotten more games in with your ogres recently? Yeah, um beyond just holy havoc. Yeah Had a bunch of test games and stuff like that. I wanted to really, um Like get real games in not real games I suppose because it was like empty bases and stuff But you know what I mean like proper 2k opponents trying to win right stuff like that I wanted to make sure and get like a decent amount of that in With um at least most of the strategies Or yes And like oh, I wonder if I can use this here use that there. So I tried, you know, I've done, um I've done under guts with uh with all the blasters shooters and a bunch of lead belchers and stuff. I've tried, uh You know the classic slaughter master with gluttons and just seen how they work out and they're fun Um, I tried an army with uh 24 iron guts Okay Like just glutton's not big enough. Sorry And um, you know, I went with some of the Like I did the meme, you know, because everybody wants to do the meme or at least I did where it's just it's six models You have two frost lords and four beast riders. Yep, and it's exactly And that's still 60 capturing bodies technically, right? Um I would think wound count is actually your biggest challenge. They're not not objectives anymore Yeah, um But uh, it's like It's not unreasonable to play that that's the crazy thing is um You know, it's not like hyper competitive or anything But if you're especially in deployment like you deploy Six beast riders six stone horns in like pillars in a parking garage formation Sure Presents somewhat of an interesting problem for a lot of opponents who are like flow charting it, right They're like, well, I I buffed this thing and I signed it in and I use my bridge and it shoots their good thing And then you know I have my two other things to kind of protect the backfield and then we're good Like where they're a little maybe a little too formulaic a better point and click I suppose, right And then suddenly your opponent's just like yeah, I run six 300 point dudes with five upsaves Them out like eight inches between each other just in a big line And it doesn't matter what you attack because everything is the same And then once the game starts objectives from beast claw now Which was a real killer before Where you would play armies like flesh eater courts and of course, you know grizzled gore General, you know, he's just like so crazy and he does a lot of damage and it's hard to kill him But really what killed you Was all that board edge summoning where you just had little guys kind of funneling in from here and there And just kind of standing near objectives And so sometimes it's not the big splashy thing that kills you and and now it's like You can't just summon 10 guys and Score a point by standing like a beast riders Or I can just have oh two monsters just kind of charge in And now that's 20 models like it's it's like the meme I made, you know Objectives are back on the menu boys. Like we're playing actual age of sigma here, right? And for all the for all their other problems Might makes right allows Beast claw to play actual age of sigma like the way that you try to win the game And that's that's a huge thing And I probably did so like overall Are you really like unhappy with the book or are you actually like yeah, we got we got some stuff, but No, I'm I'm super disappointed in the book But I'm not like pure winging. I mean It's not like there isn't good things in there. There are you know might makes right Really changes things for beast. Well, it allows us to play the game. Like I said, you know Do you think you do you think it's your the dark side of your prediction has come true? Where you said like if you were more of a and you had made this prediction Quite a bit beforehand where you said like if you're a gut busters player chances are this is going to be a Uh, you know a good book for you if you want to play both together chances are this is going to be a good book for you If you were a pure beast claw player Well, sorry Like do you think that ended up coming to pass No, I think I think I had a little wrong there. It was a I don't think that prediction went true Okay, it came true in a way that I wasn't expecting. Um It's actually kind of hard to mix them up That's that like if you play pure beast claw, I think you can do some fun things Just not particularly come like not crazy competitive or anything like that. Right And if you play pure gut busters, you can do Some pretty good things just not like Super competitive, but if you want to mix them beyond just like one unit Sure beyond just having a a murder horn in your gut busters or whatever, right? Yeah Yeah, I think they're harder to mix than Warclans is and those are like Kind of two separate armies, right? It's uh, it's kind of the keyword soup that we see in in corn in a way Where there's this where's the there's this division and like some guys are buffing some things and Some guys are buffing some other thing and um If you want to make something good, you kind of have to specialize in it So it actually is kind of hard to mix them even though they've made them one thing which is a A weird take it's like it's even hard to fit a frost lord into a pure gut busters army because he needs an artifact Right be taking a tribe and that takes your artifacts. So now you're going to want a battalion And if you want iron blasters to be good, you're going to take a battalion So that you can give trophy rack to the guy and then now you need a third artifact for a frost lord And so there's there's a lot of like goofy list building Stuff when you really start looking into it, right? You know it'll has that it'll be super fun like maybe I shouldn't have or maybe I should have Put more of that caveat in the video although I did try to Where like there's that there's fun stuff to do in here like let's not lose Has that like Has that like piqued your interest with it more because it's harder to find those like little spaces where you've got a Find where you can pull this stuff out of it or are you just kind of like it's just not here Like loose building interest you mean? Yes Um Well, you're thinking real quick. Let me answer a few questions. You gotta go ahead Rob Johnson said if you tried lowering your bit rate to stop dropping streams Uh, I did I actually when I went to a lower lower bit rate. It actually dropped more So I don't know what's up with that. So I went back to like a medium bit rate and that seems like kind of okay I'm actually above where it says I should be streaming, but I'm still way low versus like where you're ideally supposed to stream for this kind of a Thing so who knows Uh, how do you feel about painting old miniatures? I don't like to paint old miniatures unless they're an old miniature. I really love how do you feel about green blue and brown as a color scheme And green and blue together are always a highly suspect because they're quite near each other On the color wheel and like brown isn't actually a color. It does not actually balancing anything off. It's it's a neutral tone It's not a color. It's just a it's a thing that exists Now you can make it into a color if you like turn it red or something like that Which is what I would probably recommend in that case If you had it mostly like green and brown with a little bit of blue as a pop color You could get away with it or blue and brown with a little bit of green as a pop color. Sure All right. So there hopefully I gave you enough time to think about it um no, I don't uh Yeah, I don't I don't think that um that That limitation makes the list building that much more interesting. You just end up driving into a bunch of dead ends much faster So I guess I'll I'll put it that way I suppose Well, I'm for what it's worth. I'm sorry, dude like it No, it's it sucks to have like your your your army of choice and be disappointed when there finally is a release like that that does suck and um, um Truly sorry man that like that sucks Yeah, but there's a bunch of different ways you can look at it, you know, however you choose to for instance A month ago my army which much was much worse, right? Right and before before realm artifacts came out like Beast call were like Actually unplayable even in casual you couldn't win, you know, and so realm artifacts came out now We're a little better and we got this new book And it wasn't what we wanted, you know, but um, it's better than it used to be right And uh, yeah You also get to take like you're given what is Hmm You also get to take what is like seen as not a Competitive army and like ram it down somebody's throat in your traditional like magic. I'm gonna crush you style Yeah, like if you bring your rogue deck, there's a there's a certain charm in being the underdog because your wins are more Um, not meaningful, but like you take them to heart more Yeah, they're satisfying. They're more. Yeah, your wins are more satisfying um And everybody likes rooting for the underdog and stuff like that. So it's not um That's not a tragedy or any such And probably I'm looking at it from the perspective of somebody who got my hopes up, right? And you don't want to do that With a new release because in your in your head, it's always going to be like, oh, I bet, you know What if they do this and what if they do that and you know, then when it comes out you only ever see missed opportunities like maybe Maybe nergal too when that came out somebody was looking that and they're like, oh Man, I really thought as such and such would happen. Maybe this is just how everybody feels in their bubble In their own little bubble when an army comes out that was there and got an update book I haven't been in that position. So maybe it is Yeah, it's funny because obviously the ogre book was fun enough to me that I decided to paint an ogre army in 24 Hours is a fun project, right? So some other people in the group could play it And I will say like watching you get piloted It is one of those armies that's like if somebody asked me what are some good armies to start as for my first army Like it's probably one I would recommend Honestly, I think it's a great new player friendly army in ways that I don't think stormcast and corn are even though they're marketed for it, right? Well corn especially now has become like so fiddly with so many little tiny interactions and holy within and stuff like that Right corn. Yeah when I when I um when I when people were first picking up the game It was always like almost a meme where the army of Of frenzied cannibal barbarians were choirs all of like the stout and planning in depth into the synergies It was it was it was nuts and still is Exactly go on No, exactly. That's why like corn I think is is somewhat of a is somewhat of a Of a failure in some respect Just because I feel like the theme and the feeling of the army should have a play style that fits that And corn looks like this blood thirsty just in the sane run forward, but actually it's like so meticulous And there's some there's a lot of tedium there and these circles and and Everybody in the right place at the right. It plays like a zinch army should Technically On the table except it's the it's the furious, you know, blood thirsty one which is kind of which is kind of goofy to me It is very strange. I I totally agree with that When you look at the way that army plays doesn't it feel like They should be like it feels like we should look at the game and go Well, who are the melee you kind of just charge across the table And smash people as one of the options you have as play styles To be moderately successful. That doesn't mean like winning tournaments. That means moderately successful, right? Like the book is functional if you act like that Books you look at the world and you go well, okay It should be like the iron jaws like orcs They should probably act like that because that feels like their thing the ogres Yeah, okay, that checks out and you know corn because blood for the blood god and let's go Let's go mess some people up like if you all you know about the world was kind of the 6000 Foot view, right? Then it's not that they're bad. So Andrew, I'm not sure which part you're disagreeing with there um But like to me the problem with corn is it should have the option to just like go nuts And there is a lot of fiddling mess to the army like there are some versions of it that are slightly less than others But there's always some fiddling There's a lot of like holy within's and things that require very synergistic because all their troops are very Underpowered until they get together and get all their buffs and get going, right? Um when it feels like what corn should be is a bunch of the best warriors All just hanging out together ready to go beat face Right not needing each other Yes Yeah, I'd like to reiterate that this isn't a power level discussion in any way, right, right? How the mechanics are playing out and what you're what you're doing to Make your things work on the table like it's a rip stream. Are we seeing that in chat? Yeah, like vince talked about the thing and it was just like it got lost in the ether Yeah, it's back such as life Now there's it's it's it's it's interesting because it's like ogre ogres We're in a specific place where it's like nothing got cut So, um, you had you had an understanding of what everything That used to be available to ogres did from warhammer fantasy into the beginning of age of sigmar and then from aos 1 into aos 2 So it's like you didn't You had you had something in the back of your head of like that 1000 foot view of this is what ogres have been doing I can't imagine they will dramatically change it especially Especially if they announce, okay, we're coming out with a new ogre book and boom nothing's getting cut and Unfortunately, nothing new is getting added either except for the mop up Whereas something like high elves where They basically don't exist anymore Like they they slowly got rid of most of the army and then the rest of it has now Been moved into cities of sigmar. So while we know they exist thematically within the fiction Um, they could go effectively anywhere like are they really gonna be angels? We don't know We only have vague themes and ideas and that tecla centurion exists That could be anything Yeah How close to how close to complete do you think all that is? Um, yeah the tecla's model right now somewhere in the back. Oh, oh, yeah. No, it's it's been done probably since like halloween of 2018 Yeah, I think basically how far in advance these guys work and Like I I I mentioned this to to some friends in other chats where it's like Like deeper and deeper into because the design space at least within their fiction was already there Like they took a slayer and made it its own army They took the technological acumen That dwarves are stereotypically associated with and made it into its own army that I think no one expected Like vince, we did when you saw carriage drawn for the first time Was that something that like really checked the box for you in terms of yeah Yeah, I think they're one of the most original takes of all the armies we've had. I mean, they're still dwarves Again, right most of the new armies we've had that are like new new are still just like the existing races In a new skin, right? Sure elves but wet dwarves but sky right And and and even tyler emerson and I were like talking about what does a high elf army look like and it's like well We already have an established pattern of they're going to have a mutant unit Where they're mixed with some sort of mythological creature that was associated with their army in the old world And it's going to be elves plus mutant elves plus a god model plus this and so forth So it's like there's already a little bit of a predictability in terms of like like release composition but um I I think that uh Elves are the most Tolkien of of all of the fantasy races that we in western pop culture like like can think of And if games workshop wanted to try and Not make it like Tolkien anymore elves are the hardest things to work with And the health armies we've gotten I honestly I don't think you're gonna get a mutant at all I think that these elves are going to be the epitome of perfection And they are all going to be like Well, we see pristine When we vision was of when we say mutant It's because that's there's already a precedent for that in in the new warhammer fiction In that um all of the elf souls are effectively the same ones from the old world whether they remember their past life or not because slanesh and a food coma Is slanesh is a food coma chained up in the that the hidden gloman which is that that realm near where shade spire is between heish and ulgu and Tyrion, teclas, malachith, namalaryon and marathi just keep punching its stomach and it spits up elf souls And they're tainted And those tainted elf souls when they are made back into mortal flesh Are permanently transformed and that's how we get the kinari the melusai And now the kernafi which are the the half deer half goat And half like the centaur elves basically and I think high elves are going to continue that trend But there are instead of angels or like they might look like angels, but they're going to be like half eagle maybe I don't see them doing cat people Because one that's like already done in like a main line like like epic fantasy thing like in elder scrolls There's already cat people who are buddies with high elves, and I think it's just unnecessary um But that's why when we say there's going to be a mutant faction It's because we're basing it off of there being a precedent for daughters of kane and now kernafi to exist Look at that the coach is in the house Elves or lamb what shasa there you go uh Oh, I said like no so no like rock shasa elves or leonan or something like that Yeah, bring in the backwards thumbs Backwards on what? Rock shasa have backwards hands They have like rock shasa have inverted hands Right, so they're like, you know their hands are backwards like a they're like, you know Opposite hands that would be so amazing if they sculpted a race like rock shasa with backwards hands because it would be the most confusing thing to every painter ever for assembling And every person who didn't know about the lore of it would be like You know you put your hands on wrong right and like no it's all they're supposed to be your buddy What's up coach that would be like every converter's dream Oh, look who it is. Yes. He's on mute, but he's here It's mario. He's joined the chat Just woke up and I thought I'd jump on and uh not paint for say happy birthday and hang out with you find hobby legends Uh, hey, great to have you buddy. And also I appreciate your sign in the background We just recorded a show the other day so I watched it sounds good That's why it's there and I thought I'd put on a bit of costume a little bit of a sneak peek for an upcoming episode So a bit of mario, but I'm going to go on mute while I eat my delicious fig and walnut toast That sounds absolutely gross. Absolutely. Have a good time That sounds disgusting A combination of two bad things into a perfectly fine thing wonderful uh all right so uh the Yeah, I mean When it comes to like creating something truly iconic, I feel like just doing animal slash person isn't going to cut the mustard You know like no It's fine. Don't get me wrong like the kernaughty stuff where you like centaurs But can you find something that enough people think is cool? Like I think it'd be cool to have like so haish is the realm of the mind and thought and logic and stuff like that, right? Yeah, and crystal. Don't forget crystal. Well, that goes exactly to where I was. Thank you, martin That's it's as though you were about to set me up for what I was going to say Because what I was going to say was I think it'd be cool to have like, uh crystalline type of humanoids that aren't there aren't people Like maybe they just make themselves like Pseudo suits of kind of armor that let them inhabit it and they act Humanoid ish, but otherwise they're more or less just crystalline energy beings Fashioned into like suits of armor They've beaten into to let them go to war because they've been roused by whatever's there And they're all psychically linked because they are effectively just energy mind creatures that have formed themselves into like A physical thing and so they have just like a giant crystal that's at the center of it like a big pylon And uh, and that's actually like that your terrain piece is actually like the leader of your army Right because that's like the brain crystal That's sort of sending out all of it's it's it's connecting all of them And yeah leader so it's like the mind flayer with uh with the big brain Yeah with the overmind. Oh the overmind thing kind of but that's a more control like command and control thing I'm not that I'm thinking of it more like a network hub You know what I mean? Like it's it's routing all of them together like they're individuals They're all all these little energy beings are still beings They are themselves But they connect through this thing Does that make sense? I think it just be it does. I think it'd be cool to see like that idea Put together with like your crystalline armor idea and just have like these little Like imps or something that live in the realm of light that like Make these big suits of armor Oh, sure. Yeah, they can absolutely. Yeah, they could be yes There could be little little homunculi or closets or imps or something who help them out who are like their little hands For them, you know that actually like do the sort of minuscule dirty work for them Like that kind of stuff would be amazing Yeah So like just just I want an army. I want an army that Is all endless spells that gain sentience nice And oh my god endless spells That they have names and stuff and because there was that one wasn't there a um A purple sun that was so ancient that it like gained sense and gave itself a name and stuff like that And it couldn't be found normally I think in the lore. Yes, it's a great scenario It's in uh, there's actually a scenario where you can take control of him and and like he's just kind of a a thing Uh, the chain closet scenario. Yeah, the chain closet scenario. Yep, exactly. What's his name? Uh Don't know his name Nope, I don't remember either. It's a game's workshop name It is. Yeah Um, but the point is like That dude would be that dude is awesome. That's a great scenario, by the way It's super fun Like if you're if you're looking to not just practice on the competitive scenarios and you want something that's really interesting and fun That's actually a very fun scenario to play. We've done that a couple times Because it's always a good time But yes, that'd be that'd be amazing like an all sentient spell army Holy crap, dude That'd be a lot so by the way. Oh, there you go. Yeah, that sounds right Okay, nice. Nice. Yeah, his name was larry Steve keen said larry larry the purple side. That's the googly. I want right that we see that picture all the time Yeah, yes Um, but yeah, like I gotta back this up. Hey, well, I love the idea like small it could be an elite army, right? So you're not painting Uh, it's not like units of 20 or 60 or 60s right answer. Maybe there's a unit of 20 There's not like a unit of 60 small spells Right, but like there could be little spells and there could be bigger spells Yeah Yeah, and you could even do stuff like oh here's the uh Um, like here's the flaming skull except it's in a trench coat with a wizard hat and it's like one of your catheters or something There's some You could do I think with it and one of the main ways you can do significant damage to it is to attempt to unbind a unit Right. Yeah, like like if any of your guys are successfully Dispelled like you dispel an endless spell like it does a d6 damage to them or something Oh, yeah, so there's all sorts of fun. Hold on. Let's do a doom train thing where Undead and final fantasy like if you heal them it hurts And so if you like unbind or dispel them and like you can do extra damage to them And that's a different like way of handling that Let's follow this rabbit hole. This is fascinating. Let's let's try to let's try to actually see what we can do here Okay. Yeah. So I want to um, so we got spell units and spell characters, right? Yeah Okay, so the first thing that occurs to me is that they're going to be difficult to kill, right? Makes sense because they're they're just magic like if you open stab it with a sword It's not as effective, right? Okay, correct Uh, so how about Uh at the they uh How about a universal mechanic for the army like I'm trying to decide between a couple things like at the end of the the the turn Or maybe the battle round or something they automatically return to their full strength of the unit unless they're wiped out Oh like magic. Yeah, like magic the gathering creatures and the cleanup stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yes, exactly Yep And however total sense I I love your idea of like dispelling and unbinding being powerful against them like any wizard Yes, just use a dispeller unbind attempt on the unit to do like d6 mortal wounds to basically blood boil Right, and so everybody has counterplay or something like that. Yeah Uh, I'm noticing your comments quiet side. I'm actually seeing them I just we're just talking and it's a lot of comments, but I see them, buddy Don't worry. How many people are watching that stream? That's about 140 people right now. So wow That's a big ass party you've got there. It's it is. This is great. This is what I wanted play Age of Empires Yes, absolutely You can have a thing where if somebody else summons an endless spell you can wallow wallow it And it joins it joins your endless spell. Oh, yeah That'd be sweet That yes, you actually bring it over to your side. Yeah Uh, this army's rocking and rolling. So so like Should the purple sun just be like one of the big bads in it? Should he just be like the that's one of your big characters? Right is the purple sun Yes Should I make the the named character an actual special character in the thing? Yeah, the army will still have sculpts It's not like you just buy forbidden power and you have the army like They're they're all like sculpts that are really reminiscent of those except they're More this would this would also be a perfect This would be a perfect time for games workshop if they want to sculpt an endless spell army To bring in some of the the spells like from 8th edition I know they're slowly bringing them in to like newer armies like you'll remember spell like Something like uh, sylvaneth have dwellers below or something like and and this would be a good opportunity to like manifest some of those Older iconic spells as units like gehenna's golden hounds. Let's have a unit of gehenna's golden hounds. Oh, yeah Yeah You could or you could even take that a step further in each lore where you had like lore fire lore life lore Whatever you could actually make those like the enclaves of the army. Whereas if you were You took it under this. This is the certain artifact command trait whatever that you got Uh, I like it. I like it. I think we're getting somewhere with this Yes, I think that by the way somebody asked like what would their command abilities look like It would be a lot of movement based stuff because most of them would retain something like their normal abilities Where like when they move over people they do damage and then like in actual combat They would be unbelievably weak because they don't actually fight Right, it would just be like a lot of them trying to push into you Uh and stuff like that like moving over you hex wraith type type of interactions Right, and so the command abilities would be all about like pulling people out of combat Being able to retreat and charge You know being able to push people extra inches increasing move speed that kind of stuff What are the chain ones called chains of uh, the soul of soul snares? Soul snares, yeah, the soul snares, yeah Maybe maybe their way of of doing actual damage is like taking over people I was literally gonna ask about possession is I would love to be able to possess Someone's models and get them to do something for me Oh, oh, yeah, I like that idea. Do they have to be a wizard though guys? That might be a little too npe But I was thinking like you have 10 scaven that are all bound up in full snare shackles and are being forced to attack on your behalf and that's like one of the little Models and I suppose that wouldn't work because they They have to be different on different bases and stuff nevermind No, I I I think I think fence if I'm if I'm gonna just push back a little bit some of them like like Bring back the Gehenna's golden hound concept could be depending on the Yeah, some of them could be able to fight because they are manifestations of a of like a specific thing rather than A little more abstract like the gnashing jaws or the purple sun Totally fair, you're right Martin and especially because we're not just talking about using the existing spells There'd be new ones here and I agree with you. There's a deep well to go from Uh real quick here Brandon s question. I'm thinking of doing an iron jaws army that is based off white walkers with grayish Deadish flesh and ice weapons. What would you recommend for painting that? Well? I mean I Those things you just kind of answered it Like do the grayish dead is deadish flesh Probably like a dark armor So something like blackened iron would look best against a bright flesh like that And then yeah, just just traditional ice weapons. So there's lots of different ways to do ice weapons I have a tutorial on it. There's a couple other ones out there. I think Uh, like I think I know there's been other people who've done it as well. I can't I can't quote exactly who but There's a little there's a little bit of brown in in the white If you if you watch like the game of thrones episodes like on a really good screen If you take a good look at their armor it has like this weird basket weave to it Maybe it's just supposed to be like weathered iron, but to me it looks a little bit almost like this brownish I don't want to say basket weave because it's not like straw or like some sort of like Like weave Like it has a weave pattern, but I think there's a little bit of brown in there And I think that could actually like go a long way in terms of yeah Yeah, because then you have a little bit of warmth to counter out the cold Yeah for For the weapons, uh, I would recommend going out and picking up a bottle of doll around the turquoise ink Yeah, as it's like like super awesome Super amazing for doing ice weapons and a ton of other stuff You're right. It is just a useful ink to have I love that color. Yes Good recommendations all around there you go All right, so elements so so the the endless spell army Yes, frankly, I think we've got a winner here Like obviously you have a few new characters. You have a few existing things. Here's so here's a question Do can they summon more of themselves? Absolutely Yes, demonstrate they can okay But when they're summoning them they're not summoning like an endless spell they're summoning themselves Essentian endless spells or is this like a Pluto and goofy thing No, I don't I don't think I think they think that summoning endless spells is like cruel You know and so they don't do it. They're fighting for liberation Yeah, they're they're fighting against that right I I think that they should get bonuses to stuff if your opponent casts any endless spells because it like pisses them off Yeah Sure. Yeah, because you've enslaved their their potential brothers and sisters. Yeah, absolutely That tracks Uh Let's see colossal gel gelatinous cube the army. Yeah, there you go Uh, I do love the idea of a gelatinous cube and the spell that'd be pretty great Just moves around and like Squishes a unit into it starts slaying models Ignores attacks that it doesn't have rend Right. Oh, yeah Not not only does it pick up and move a unit off of an objective But they take d6 mortal wounds as you're moving them right right because it just squishes them around. Yep Imagine the conversion opportunities where you just pour a giant cube See resin of resin and if just fill it with whatever you want Yeah, like some like deteriorating like Being eaten by acid Dudes just a really pissed off catacoros or something like that I got locked in the cube pretty too much into the summoning humanoid like things but a lot of times when I've um Encountered magical enemies and save video games. They are like spiritual manifestations of like a volley of archers Instead of instead of like is I don't want it to just be like I'm going to shoot fire at you with my Like incorporeal fire monsters, you know what I mean? No, I'm not sure how exactly what you said There's a bunch of good old spells that haven't been brought over yet And some of these make absolute sense to be created as endless spells. So yeah, I mean, there you go That's it's easy Do you know I'm specifically about ranged attacks like I don't know what ranged attacks in this army look like Oh, sure It is a rate checks out. Yeah Yeah Easy-feasy Yeah I like it I think I think this is this is a winner right here The endless spell army is good to go No This is uh, we're just we're just knocking out these ideas See totally new totally weird and yet builds on the already existing stuff That's a winner winner winner chicken dinner right there. All right Gw I expect to see that in no more than two years from now. So I was I was watching your slanesh review earlier this week And you say winner winner chicken dinner quite a lot. I do as a matter of fact. It's one of my favorite things There's a lot to say about that book that involves the phrase winner winner chicken dinner. So yeah It comes up a lot when you play other people as well. Yes, it's one of those things I did have a test game of ogres against slanesh and um It was it was kind of as you expected slanesh player is just beaming Ear to ear. Yeah, it's like oh the depravity to just look at this depravity Yes for slanesh. This is showing up at the buffet and you see it stocked with all the finest Like this is rolling into the belagio buffet when they just put out the fresh lobster or whatever, right? Yes, you mean I get Because then I end up getting like the second second Like I mean if you go 3-0 you're paired up against other people who went 3-0 But like right below that or the other people who went 2-1 and most of the time I just can't win um The next two games So like I played a daughter's army and then as a punishment for losing to a daughter's player game five I played a slanesh army And he had and this is just off the top like it could be like slightly tweaked on like the certain units But I know he had a keeper and then shellaxi And then he had the mask um a contorted epitome And I don't know if there was another hero after that but there was one blob of 30 daemonettes three units of five What are the the seekers? Not health starters health starters are the ones with marauders on back right? Yeah All right, so it was three units of five seekers the unit of 30 daemonettes And then all of those slanesh endless spells and I think it was just shy of 2k And he had 30 daemonettes on the table Yes Oh fluffy list. Did you kill anything? What um Well, I was like it was kind of going back and forth and then right when he was about to lose He had like six command points in reserve and a ton of depravity It's like I'm going to summon these daemonettes back that you killed earlier And then I'm going to make everything pilot an attack choice And that was I lost by one point. That was a better part of valor Yeah, I think something gets worse than the In the buzz about slanesh is that it's so fun To play Uh-huh Like it's actually incredibly fun to play I I tested a little bit when the book came out just with empty bases and stuff against iron jaws and it was It was like guiltily fun to play where you know your opponent is having inversely proportional amount of fun, right, but you're like, uh, this is such a Such a tragedy because it's so fun And you wish your opponent could somehow manage to have fun too, right? You know, yeah, I I I did like how the endless spells are like sort of like a give and take. Um, he used the mirror and the mirror is the one that does, um Mortal wounds equals to or like multiplied by the amount of sixes your role or is that the wheels? That's the mirror. Yeah, and and we kept playing with the mirror back and forth There's like do I want to do I want to waste an unbind trying to get rid of the Um The mirror because I had to use all our cons old scroll for that event Which I was grateful for because I still got to cast van hells through him But he also didn't get any bonuses to um dispelling endless spells What you're on his updated scroll So it's like do I try and roll straight dice at the mirror? Or do I cast my excellent debuffs that I absolutely need? And I kept losing the priority roll. So I pointed the mirror at him instead And it just it was fun. I mean he doesn't he doesn't lose anything because the mirror can't damage slanish units. I think Um, but as a result, I never got appointed at me again, but that was like a fun trade off I wish more endless spells were like that where They they they can be high risk high reward for both players you know, I I haven't taken like the actual, um Like swan ash swan ash like I haven't run like a bunch of demonettes and the keeper of secrets in that But I have run like the depraved Drove underneath The swan ash allegiance. Oh my god. Do beasts of chaos go to like 11 underneath swan ash? Holy crap Like yeah running just your little torpedoes of 10 bestigore It around the board with exploding sixes and like it god forbid you take a unit of 20 or more And then your exploding sixes turn into three hits instead of just an additional like it's just insanity Yeah, I've I've said that uh I don't know what show I was on but uh with beast of chaos Depraved drove is the best battalion in the game because it lets you pay points to get slanish battle traits It's for what you're paying for what abilities you get It's it's like a powerful battalion ever right So great and yeah, okay, you have to up the beast of chaos ones, but it's like no great loss So yeah, it's it's super fun. I thought that was gonna that was one of my predictions I'm like, okay beast of chaos is dead everyone will just play depraved drove now and uh, they really did I I I stopped playing it because my opponents weren't having any fun It was like I was I was rolling a shit ton of dice and their stuff was dying and it just It wasn't any fun for them. They were just standing there watching me roll dice all game. So it was kind of like All right, I'll just take my stuff off. So I was like, okay going back to beast of chaos allegiance So you were you you were doing what we call the uh doing the plague monk Or you just sit there and roll dice and then and then other people take things off, you know, yeah Yeah, you know it like I I totally understand it and like beast of chaos is so fast like and then you add like The command like you're you give a beast lord some of the command traits out of there and he just gets stupid like I Many players or if you decide to take one I was just in my area Well, just maybe a question in general is are we even seeing many beasts of chaos armies? Around I know certainly I don't see many of them. Uh, if I keep asking I keep I keep asking But uh, I'm not only one in my area. I have there's any of one. There's only like there's only like 10 of us I would say that it's a pretty low representation army Right. Um, yeah statistically and anecdotally probably both line up there for the most part But the people who love them love them Yeah, yeah It's it's kind of like a beast claw thing. You won't find many people playing it But the people who do are just like I really love this like it's so sweet, you know I know I I will enjoy being the only Sorry You will enjoy then I'll just start yeah Yeah, I will be I will enjoy being the only elf like high elf player because that was how it used to be like I would say I would say and especially like the southern new jersey philadelphia scene Um, it was definitely you are either playing Um, like even from wherever fantasy into now, it's like you're either playing a chaos army You're playing like a vampire count style army of undead or you're playing any form of orcs Or um, and that's still mostly true Uh, and I was always like and then there's marty with high elves Yes, yeah, it was me me And it's gonna be like that again And I hope that they're not just like an eel army where I have to take one unit And then that's like there's no nothing else other than that unit is good in the book Let me answer a question real quick here inspirational mini I said I bought the velhejo nocturnal purple set most amazing thing I ever saw anyone tried the red ones Are they any good? Yes, I have I have them on my desk. Yeah, I know I know you have them too marty Uh, yes, I have the purple and the red ones. I know you have the purple ones. Do you have the red set too as well? Um, all three of them are in front of me right now I just got the fairy flesh set yesterday and I used it to paint the skin on the elf. There you go their nocturna is like, um, their story is kind of convoluted like how they got picked up by velhejo But the point is is that their paints are available to the public now And that is one of the best things to happen in fantasy figure painting as far as I'm concerned like by these What kind of properties do they have are they like scale 75 where they're like ultramat? Are they like a gel type medium like what? They're pretty standard like velhejo like acrylic paints. It's more Um, the color like mixture like sometimes it would be pretty hard At least in my opinion to get to colors of these specific hues and um, they include instruction manuals within each of them like the scale 75 and velhejo ones which, um Put them like ask you to blend or like glaze them in a certain order Which create an even more interesting color effect, which I just rarely see on other miniatures Like it gives you like this dark almost like brick red A pink and then sort of like a neutral red And you glaze them in a certain order and it creates a red that I've like never seen before Um, and it's like that with their flesh set both of the flesh sets Like the vampire skin like I don't paint vampires any other way anymore Like their their purple tones are just excellent Like just just buy them like find them a wall. Yeah Yeah, I agree the purple tones are especially nice because you know, there's not a lot Most miniature lines really don't have a great range of purple paints And these are actually really nice. They're really vibrant I would like the the thing that makes them good is just they have a nice intense Sort of pigmentation and a bright color to them So they give you really nice intense and varied Purples reds things like that and a lot of different tones that you can't you'd have to Color mix very carefully to get to the same place So if you're not like a whiz at paint mixing on your own with how you can get different effects This is a good way to do it Which by the way, there are very few people who like really are right who wants to do that Yeah So it's there are they like Yeah, so are they like super pretty pigment rich then or like yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's right They're pretty they're pretty pigment rich. Yep I'm I'm just trying to get a gay age like because I I paint almost exclusively in scale 75 because I Really, it's just a you know when you find a paint that you're super comfortable with using and you Just kind of stick with that. That's what scale 75 is to me, which is why I was asking like In that case you'll you'll find a little bit of more of the same like it's it's like the the way the paints are made like in terms of like, I don't like chemically like the the mixture of like pigment to To medium and whatnot like I wouldn't say there's that much special about them It's more the colors that they offer and the ways that you can blend them together Like really create interesting not often seen hues Uh All right. Yeah, yeah right on coach. I want to bring in your man. You haven't we we haven't got to talk to you much What are you working on besides breakfast? Yeah, you're still eating No, I was I didn't want to uh Chew on on toast non-stop. No, so now you're hobby and so what are you working on buddy? I am uh Pretty myself to use and priming a free guild general on foot So this will be uh from the forge world range the discontinued uh general um Yeah, that's what this is like. This is a legit forge or a free guild general model not a conversion He said this is one of the no, no this is the legit one Yeah, you used to get the the empire command set which included this general this amazing battle standard bearer and uh What could have been a flagellant hero? um So he's been sitting on the bits box for a while and i'm bringing him out now that i'm forced to play one on foot so All roads lead to can con right now So trying to lock down a list and my god to these of sigma It is the worst book in the world because you're building a list. It's just impossible It literally changes every second and then my twitter fills up and people want to recommend like oh I just realized hawkeye with long strikes are amazing I'm like, oh, maybe I should get them and then someone else that tells me about pistol air a pistol air army I'm like what guys stop trying to lock down an army Yeah, but more more books need to be like cities of sigma Look, look i'm winging but it's an amazing amazing book but locking down a tournament list is incredibly impossible Yeah, I I almost jumped in because I love the rules for the shadow warriors The the thing that made me not jump in at first was that they got rid of the way watcher That's it. That was the thing that broke you right there. No way watcher. I'm out absolutely Not even i'm sure i'm sure i'm gonna find a way That that was my favorite order hero like I used to play all you know like back for all you know when we don't come back way watcher could come back Well, that's that's cool. But then he'll be in that army not in the free people's army. So my decision will still stand is correct I Look, I played with I played with a particular General I had my empire general that was the I think it was called he was called radigar or rotgar from a war old warhammer campaign Um, I think it was idol of gawk And I've run him as my empire general and my free guild general since fourth edition And no longer do I have generals on horse? So if I can come over and and lose my favorite general I'm sure you can find a way Yeah, just put him on a big boat I don't know man. There's some general on griffin boom. There's some upgraded nurse There was just something about having like a hero general whatever That special actually specialized with a bow that was good That really resonated with me and like he was the only one Yeah, he was quite good You play months. I have uh wanderers, right? Yeah Vince I have an interesting question for you. Okay. This isn't the time for interesting questions martin. No, go ahead. What's your question? Um, all right, then. I'll never mind put away your answer questions nonsense only on this stream my friend Right, right, right? Come back in one year So so now now that cities of sigmar is out because um, Is uh, we'll post an interesting thing or it's like certain things are disappearing For the longest time now We've had these two elf characters from silver tower the mist weaver and tenor bro shard and they haven't done anything with them Like and they're still available Like what what what do you think are eventually going to happen to them? Like do you think they fit with some an army? Like people thought that the mist weaver was going to be in deepkin But they forgot that deepkin don't have hair and mist weaver does um I'm just like what what what purpose do these characters serve? Like malaria again I mean one sure maybe But also let me make the reference i'll explain it like this And i'm sure this is this probably gonna land with you joe joe. Do you remember future site? Yes, I do So there was a cycle that was done like there was a set This is one of the things that like I had already been dipping my toe back into magic And I've been playing for a little while and then this was like I this was the first big pre-release event I went to When that when that set came out like I had started playing in 94 I played up until like 99 and got a few years and I came back for future site or not that one But whatever that what was the name of the core set for that one? uh Time spiral, thank you So they did like a Basically a present past and future sort of thing right And because time was getting all wibbly wobbly because that's when they introduced planeswalkers And so when they did future site the whole idea of future site was they were going to future shift in A bunch of cards from quote-unquote future sets So it had like a bunch of just it was a set of like one-off mechanics Crazy mechanics of things that there was no other thing to feed it Right like there was the contraption mechanic that was in there forever that never had anything else No other contraptions And just you know on and on right? And some of those were Brought in from sets that were literally in the pipeline right they just picked a couple cards out of sets that were in Various stages of development the pipeline over the next two to three years Finished those couple cards and then brought them in right some of them were more just like well We think someday we'll do a thing like this Right or just like this would be a crazy thing that maybe we would do sometime And so that's basic basically these are things that were on the drawing board as in like what do we do? Well, these characters would be perfect for a one-off adventure box Yeah Okay, maybe they'll be a whole army. Maybe they won't right. We don't know yet Yeah It's just like this is some things that were kind of being tossed around. What do you got coach? I was gonna say to be honest with you in the lead up to the gitz book I thought they would bring those scuttlers in from uh, warhammer, warhammer quest right into the box Correct. I thought they would be the gitz the the spider fang equivalent of battle line gitz And I remember I think tom even went out and bought a whole bunch of them as well Oh, there we go and now we're back Yeah Oh good. So whatever I said about my little pony dropped off the face of the internet I believe that is accurate. Yes Uh-huh I I really wish they would have heard what joe said and I also wish that he would have had a hat handy to switch out Because that would have been perfect No, I don't actually own a my little pony hat. Um I look a little too much like the real demographic and I want to just steer clear that so That's fair. That's fair Speaking of my little pony have we seen the the latest series of the toys The toys have made of or the it's a net little netflix series It kind of focuses into the different toys Lines like ninja turtles power rangers The wrestling toys that made us or whatever that is that yeah that one. Yeah. Yeah I think little pony is is in this current series, but I was watching the Um the power rangers and inch turtle ones that that's just incredible if you guys haven't seen it. I have not Yeah, it's on my list It's on my list. I grew up with those toys. So Well, that's we all did that's because that was the that was the whole You know, we were the first generation that actually could be directly marketed to in that way Right because before it was illegal. So Yeah I think the one that's uh, look, I won't ruin christmas But the power ranger one was the one that surprised me the most being a you know A naive five or six year old watching power rangers and Not understanding the I guess the stock footage of from japan and then the splicing in of american content It's like, oh, I didn't realize it happened now, um Anthony this is a question specifically for you in that vein Yeah And this is just because of the the stuff that like I see on youtube and whatnot Did your parent do you did you ever grow up with um samurai shintaro? Was that just like your parents thing? Uh, you have nobody want to talk about do you? I watched samurai pizza cats Hell yeah, you did Samurai pizza cats. Oh my god Like you know My favorite show growing up See if nobody want to talk about No, no no clue. I could pretend and like google it right now and and stole you but no no idea If you google it, you're gonna be like marty. What the fuck do you watch? I'm sorry. All right. I mean, I used to watch a whole lot of monkey or monkey magic depending on which region you're in Not not shinobi shinobles. Sorry Yeah, uh, I mean Shintaro was a black and white Uh, uh samurai like actually like a historical like sort of fantasy show And it took over like pop culture in australia in like the 60s and 70s And I didn't know how much of it's coach is What I mean, how old do you think coach could still be on television? I don't know curious moustache. I understand but come on now I I I shaved to beat it. I look a lot younger now. I'm told this is true. You do look younger Uh, well, hold on we have a question from the audience that martin You are going to be that we're all gonna give an answer to but martin I'm gonna let you go first. We're gonna all help a new player out. Here we go. We all ready Yeah, all right. So alan foster said so help needed. He's an old warhammer fantasy battle player And he never made the switch to aos, but he's looking to now which death army is a decent one for a new player All right, so let's talk him out folks That is as someone who just finished their first ever death army after playing only like order two goody two shoes Good guys Legions of the gash is a good place to start because you have access to the widest amount of troops And the allegiance abilities support um a robust amount of play styles I would also say if you if you are a warhammer fantasy battle player with and with an actual existing death army Like if you have figs From uh, you know, like a previous vampire accounts or something like that army Um, then most of those would translate right like most of those would fit directly and you you have most of the army You need like you've got skeletons and you've probably got dire wolves and you've got a corpse guard and yadda yadda yadda, right? Yes All right fair enough. Do we have other votes? Me next all right maroc your turn Night haunt If you're gonna start new I would start with night haunt be why because there's Rules in there that you just get to ignore like who gives a shit about rend you don't because you're a ghost So that that there's one rule you don't even have to worry about learn Um, I I've been through the process with my wife I taught her how to play age of sigma with night haunt and It it was fairly easy like you just kind of Push stuff forward and there's a lot of nuances in that army too that over time as you You know gain more and more knowledge and figure out the little nuances of the game There's there there's actual stuff in there that can like Really kick other people's teeth in like my wife's like Every bomb i'm gonna tomb banshee you off the table list okay Joe opinion, um Yeah, it feels like feel like martin's answer is the Is like the best slash safest choice like you you're using models. You're already familiar with Um, it's pretty good. You can you have a lot of choices, you know how to build your army and which way to go and what thing to do So I would I would almost say legions and the gosh is pretty good. I don't know what type of player you are exactly And like whatever your play style or personality or approach to games is You know if we got a little of that Um, I think it would help make a suggestion a little more like You know, are you He said by the way, he's starting fresh. He does want to start fresh. He clear. Oh, we want. Okay. All right um, but also like are you Are you kind of a are you the type of player who really likes? You know combos and synergies and trying to figure stuff out or do you like? Um fairly straightforward approaches or do you really get into the theme of stuff? Do you like magic like how much do you like magic? um There's there's gonna be a few different ways I could push you depending on what your like personal tastes are for the most part sure, sure, but Suffice it to say that After the first five games or so depending on how many games you play in your life. And so how used to the Picking up things you are You know the difficulty of the army to play is really neither here nor there Like once you've picked up the game and you've played a few times Like any one faction is just about as hard to play as any other faction And so whether an army is easy to play or hard to play. I don't think that's too big of a deal Like when recommending it to new players so Mainly I would I would ask You know, what kind of personnel do you do you have and what do people play around you? That's a good question games talk to people in real life at your local store If one happens to play night haunt or one happens to play obr because they picked it up just now or they happen to have legions and a gosh or whatever like um Watching stuff in person and talking to people and just figuring out like what happens in your local scene like local scene is super important it could be That the edge of sigma everybody plays on friday and the only store in town There's like seven fleshy to courts players And so maybe not fleshy to courts, you know what I mean? So there's there are things like that to consider as well. I would say That's good. It's a good tip coach. What are your thoughts? Yeah, joe sakin the logical Questions that I would normally ask Being a new player I would I would probably make a recommendation based on what I know so far That night haunt might be a good solution a couple of reasons would be uh, again I don't know your skill level in regards to painting and have you been painting between fantasy and you know, you're coming back from a different game, but Certainly night horn are probably cheaper to pick up than maybe some of the other armies There is the ability to bring some of your older Units into the game later on through the legion of grief, which is a I guess a sub allegiance That you can tap into later, but certainly The night haunt range is a new new range and there's a lot of new models that you wouldn't have had the opportunity to buy or paint Since playing the old vampire counts back in the day. So I think they could be a really good option for yourself but again not knowing That much of knowledge about your game and what you own and your play style and your your meta and things like that but Very very easy to get into very very cheap and very forgiving in regards to both playing and painting So, uh, I'd recommend that one. All right Yeah, I see that he says that he's not playing competitive and in which case there really isn't a terrifically wrong choice here In the death fact All four are quite fine. They're all wonderful All four have fun mechanics that you can really get behind and get into the mindset of playing and all four have You know, there's there are certainly like better model ranges and worse model ranges, but it is all opinion after all so Um, really, I feel like your question is maybe Am I going to step into any bear traps when I'm choosing between one of these four death factions? And I don't think you really are I think the only trap is the new range, which is our bone our bone daddies or our osteoarth bone reapers where You may buy them and you might get really excited about them But you might feel a little bit same Z where A lot of other plays maybe in your area are playing with the bone reapers and you may feel That uh, you're just another person on the table where you maybe you want something unique and something that you claim is your own So I would say that's probably the only trap right now Yeah, and really it's not a trap. It's not but I agree I think like knight hawn has you know, because he mentioned he likes theme and the kind of thing That sort of thing I think knight hawn has a wicked awesome story like oleander's cool. The other people in charge are cool They have tons of character Like fec's backstory is amazing as the fallen noble knights of the age Who think they're all who think they're doing the uh Who think they're all doing the the best and then like Think they're doing good, right as it were Uh, and then obviously the new bone reapers are sweet as all get out as negotius super soldiers that he's birthed out into the world As a conglomeration of souls shoved into a single body Uh, and then deprived of most of their will and left with only the urge to kill Uh, it's pretty great. That's a war analysis move right there. Like I think there was a there was a planetary. I think where where That had happened to like a cyborg and that part of his brain had been removed. It was a freaking great planetary One of the best series of all time Damian mitt brings up a good point here So he's like to the bone daddies have a barrier to entry from a rules perspective Yes, well, not if you're a new player Because you don't have to unlearn any command point stuff I still think they do like I get what you're saying. You don't have to unlearn anything to start And you don't worry about battle shock ever. So it's just a rule you don't have to learn I think to be fair. It is a fairly complex Yeah, for an aos harm, right So, you know, there's the there's the second copy out there But I think if you're the type of person who likes a little bit of complexity or that kind of synergy and that's how I'd break it down, right like um Ghosts if you love that sort of spooky aesthetic and some really cool characters fec if you like big gribblies and fun monsters that can go smash people and uh bone daddies if you like Sort of actually having that kind of strategic complexity to your game, right? Like that's that's a that is a feature not a bug to a lot of players, right? Yeah Yeah, I think I think the challenge with the complexity though is uh, I don't know He's financial situation as well And I know some people with their armies you you you make a quote unquote a poor investment Something that you think was really good doesn't quite work the way you want them to work And maybe you're not in a financial situation to then go buy The the list or the units that you really need and that becomes a very frustrating process for people and I've seen many people give up Especially when they're in that mixed order or that, you know, particular armies that are quite complex Um cities is another example. So um That's the other risk While some more complex armies, there's probably quote unquote net lists around where they go. Yeah, cool You know skeletons are great or you know, phoenix god are wonderful where you can at least get that kind of true north and then build around that nice, uh Yeah, and just because you're a new player doesn't mean you're like another like a simple person. You know what I mean, right? You might be like us, but you might have a 2000 chest rating Right, sure. And and so, you know, there's there's difficult To learn and pick up and then there's once you're used to the rules like You suddenly have all this other information or stuff to draw on, you know from your life earlier. So right You know, there is that as well Just as a as another aside there speaking to what anthony was saying about like the financials in that um night haunt we're in a starter kit and the uh The models are actually like really cheap and easy to get a whole Love so there there you go. I mean you've got you've got those little, you know One or three man boxes that you can purchase from a games workshop for no sense on the dollar So you could even even grab that try it out And if you like painting it and you could see yourself painting armies like this It could be a nice little put your toe in the water Agreed. Yep. All right. We got more another fun question Uh Quiet side asked, uh, does anybody have a suggestion for alternative Stormcast eternal models. He doesn't like the models that you know clearly wants to make the army This is a fun question because it is kind of a unique or ish thing Uh But if you don't want all games workshop product or not because with the rise of the Interaction, let's say. No, let's say it's whatever. Okay Okay, because um that that was that was a thing. Um, one thing you can do is um I I just like the games workshop things so much work Is like one of the things that really really drew me to them was um the the wrath monger slash skull reaper kit And like I think you can do so much with that kit Especially with weapon swaps and it gives them like it's a similar Like vaguely similar silhouette, but it like has this whole different flavor um, another thing you can do is um Uh, some of the bigger mantic Uh, bassillian guys, uh, there there there are units of like bigger knights And like dim angels and you just not glue on the angel wings and put them on bases um A lot of the more archaic looking Uh space marine alternatives like cyber um specific cyber especially because they um A lot of their Um iconography is so close to the games workshop stuff They had to tone back more of the technology Aspects like specifically the backpacks like there's a lot less sci-fi In those in the silhouettes of those miniatures. So if you buy some of like their their um Counts as dark angels or um blood angels You can get a lot of cool beefy knights that way Um I'm trying to think of what else there is those mantic. There was cyber um man, there's always just like the And it can also mix and match Like the the corn the corn skull reaper specifically Is is honestly it might like my go-tos for picking up those liberator guys Okay And another thing just just before um because this this pertains to the question One was asked to me the first time and now you have to ask yourself what you what don't you like about them? And back then this was When storm caspers came out they barely had any detail on them So now we have like the sacrosanct. We have the vanguard chambers Where they have like cloth and they have um more ornamentation especially around the helmets Um, and if you ask yourself the question of what you don't like about Right Yeah Okay Oh, yeah, that's what I have to say. I'm at all right. I dig it. Anybody else got any clever ideas So, uh, my like this is kind of right up my wheelhouse. This is like where I live um so Uh, when it comes to alternative models, there's like a crazy amount of companies that do Like a bunch of different stuff. Um, my entire piece of chaos army is from bronze age miniatures and from merge miniatures um in terms of uh Like trying to find alternative miniatures for storm cast internals What I would ask you first is Do you have like a theme in mind because if you're not going to you Do you want just like big armored dudes still or do you want to like go down a different route? Like what is it you're looking to do because that's going to help you Actually find miniatures that you're happy with like let's say instead of having uh a big armored dude You just want like a big muscle bound brute, right? Who's just got like thick rhinoskin or some shit Well, that's going to help you find miniatures further on down the line, right? So, um Yeah, I would suggest and before you start looking for alternative miniatures Pick out a theme Find a narrative behind your army before you go and buy a bunch of alternative scopes and if you're if you're wanting to continue on down the Like the heavily armored like typical storm cast look Um merchant miniatures actually just uh finished their uh, atlantis Atlanteans or something line and it's literally like Colossus dudes that are like look like big Spartans with like massive shields and stuff Um, so I would look into that if you want to stay down the The armored route nice All right, and uh dicey guy has given us like a hundred suggestions in the comments, which is awesome Like many alternative miniature ranges The man is a fan of all things miniature. He is one of the most passionate miniature hobby as I know great great guy Makes a lot of great content. Um All right, sweet anybody else have any thoughts The the only thing I would say obviously the two Everyone's mentioned, you know, why are you doing this? The risks obviously and this is maybe not for the person who asked the question maybe for others, but um A lot of miniature companies create their their miniatures for what's called a 28 mil scale While we know in in games workshop world. We have more of a heroic probably closer to a 32 mil style So what does that mean essentially for the person who doesn't really know what i'm talking about just yet? It means that most alternative miniature companies are creating models that are smaller than what games workshop produce because they they Accentuate the details they make it larger than life And if you've ever compared, uh, you know a third party or someone else's model versus a games workshop model You find that it's often smaller. So just a consideration to to keep in mind The second of all is that storm cast is a very unique aesthetic now Doesn't mean to say that it's not around Um, the the chaos warrior is where this all started which then inspired the space marine Which is essentially then inspired the storm cast in some way or another right? So if I was going to make a recommendation It would be through either the chaos warrior range, especially with the new kits that are coming out Or it would be through the the um the space marines or potentially sisters of battle I would probably be inspired to touch on the sisters of battle And finding my own way to to create storm casts through that I could definitely see some awesome sisters conversions into storm cast. Yeah 100 I mean you've got you know the celestine who could be tapped into for um for The the celestine prime. Um, you've got very dynamic poses that you can tap into and look to be honest with you There's other cool things like the um, there are storm cast upgrade kits through forge world So alternative heads for male and female as well as you can buy a variety of of um shields and I guess side armor plates So uh, there are ways to customize it from the standardized box. Yeah, if you were sisters of silence Yeah Yeah, that is exactly what I was going to talk about the uh, that is like a Fantastic if you're gonna go down the sisters of battle route, then yeah, I would totally pick up the sisters of silence. Yep Yep, we I was simpatico with you there my friend. I knew where you were going I could sense it. Hell. Yeah. Yes. They're great. They're great storm cast stand-ins 100 percent Uh, right on. All right. We're doing good work here guys Dorn jr. I saw you ask question earlier. I'm sorry. I forgot it Basing out trying to get like star trek teleporter pad energy dots on dark surfaces like they're just beaming down Should I put a little shiny metal under or get fluorescence? Here's my answer of how I would do that Uh, so I would put in a relatively small white dot Okay, and then I would like here. I'll scoop my palette over and then we'll we'll see how I'll show you Exactly what I would do. Basically, I would put in a little small white dot like that Okay, then I would use an airbrush and I would spray an area like that around it With sort of a white color like a light ivory Then I would drop fluorescence Lightly over the whole thing or some kind of light color Whatever it is. Like if you want blue dots, I drop a light blue over there Doesn't have to be a fluorescent could just be any blue And then I'd come back in with another dip of white Go like in a smaller dot there and then I take the bright fluorescent or whatever and put another little dot in the center That way you have a super bright center beam With then the faded area around it. That's how I would go about it So there you go All right, cool. Hopefully that helps Uh, let's see Uh, when using separately painted bases after attaching the model later How do you have a good level surface for the miniature's feet, especially with Rough muddy bases. Do you make an imprint earlier? Yes, you can make an imprint or you can push real hard Like I it sounds silly But that's like literally my tactic a lot of the time is I put plenty of glue on their feet And I push the miniature and the and the thing together and I just Squeeze because that like mud and grit and paste and whatever you use is pretty soft So as long as you're not dealing with like actual rock grit, you can generally just push stuff down in And if that doesn't if there's still some space let the glue dry Go back in with just a tiny bit of like plastic putty or something like that and just shove some under their feet It takes eight seconds people are always worried about doing stuff like that about like putting unpainted putty On a model at the end it takes like two seconds to shove that white putty in there It dries in about five minutes and then you just paint over it with dirt And then it just looks like some dirt got up on their feet It even just puts them more in the world. It's seriously the fastest process And and there you go easy breezy beautiful cover girl. There you are So Was the question specifically about muddy bases or was it just in general? Yeah, he he had said like he had asked about He had asked muddy. Yes. Okay. Never then then my suggestion doesn't yeah What was your suggestion? Go ahead for your surface Well, uh, well because I had to do that with the entire storm cast or I mean Because all of them are on clay bricks And like a smarter thing to do would be to like make resin masters like what oscar did and then cast them Again and again like there's only six actual clay bases, but then the rest of them are all solid resin Which is easy to just attach something to because it's one surface But for the bricks because the bricks are clay if you pinch them they crumble And so I had to make sure There um, I couldn't pin them directly to the bases if I pinned through the brick it shatters And I've already I've already painted that brick So I had to plan beforehand like Understand where you want. Well, you're building the base where the miniature is going to stand And then either take a photo of it or use like maybe some dollops of paint or any sort of mechanism that you that you find useful On saying the miniature is going to go here after I have applied a paint to both the miniature and the base And then you build accordingly cool Yeah, also, I just Run a pin and then you can just kind of really force them in there because you got the pin to keep it stable if you have pinned feet Yeah, yeah mud is mud is really forgiving. I currently am doing my bases like that right now, but um My new favorite basic material is ground coffee beans Um, so I'm reusing what what yeah, so what I do is um I obviously use my coffee from the coffee grinder To drink that delicious coffee, then I'll put those ground coffee beans, which are very coarse In the oven for about 10 minutes or 15 minutes to kill the the bacteria Then um, you know, basically glue it on your base and then seal it up And it really gives you some really nice texture that I found that you know Let's say for example your valet hole or even your games workshop basic material It gives you a whole range of different sizes, which is really cool But to to your point literally putting on models and it looks uneven. So Literally what vince said it's so forgiving. You can just muck it all up and it looks like mud. That's that's the beauty of that mud There you go. Absolutely. Uh, and jack by the way, you could have joined absolutely Like I pinged I pinged people I put it in a little chat But uh, but jack I would have you on here in a second. You know it if your if your stuff is packed up That's fine, too. It's your court. You would of course be welcome jack Uh Have you painted or played any malifaux? And if so, do you have a favorite model of action? Yes, I I I have and The never born were I think pretty cool. I like all the characters out of that uh, and The as tom is pinging me here I have to answer him and then interrupt everybody else being able to see it because he's a dumb dumb who Who decided to chat to me in a thing that he knows is going to interrupt Okay. Oh tom He's always going to be different. That's why we love him. He couldn't just send me a text Why not? Why would that happen to my phone over here? No That would be fine Is he joining the stream very late or not? He'll he'll be joining. Yes All right If you don't mind I'd like to hop off in like 15 20 minutes so I can make food That's fine. Yeah. Yeah, and then I have um, I actually have uh, um, uh Coaching conference this evening with erin Oh nice very good. Well tell him I said hi and I hope he's doing well. Is he done with his move? Wait, um, all of that cut out. Could you repeat it please? Tell him I said hi and is he done with his move? I will ask him that later. There you go. All right, cool. Yeah And that's erin erin lovejoy for those who I have no idea who we're talking about. Yeah, um, yeah So, but honestly, uh, raspy teen is my favorite girl that I ever painted. I did her faction and I really liked her So there you go because she's beautiful. Uh, let's see Uh, quiet side said do you think this will be a good this is a good question. Here we go. All right, gentlemen opinion time again Do you think that war gaming miniatures nowadays are too busy with adornments? So like and then he gives an example, but so the question is do you like a more or less? Adorned miniature Where where are you sitting at on the realm of let's say ogre glutton? Being at the low end Just is about attacks and it's like do you want do you want minimalism or maximalism? Sure, and there's room and there's room for both Especially with if we want as much diversity as possible in this in this strategy game That's a very political answer Yeah, now now let's hear some real answers. No, I'm just okay I mean, well, like my my favorite army is high elves is what you're covered in detail So that's my answer. They have a bunch of bunch of bunch of little bajangles all over them Yes, they high elves like their bajangles. Yeah, so there's my action my personal answer. All right fair enough. Okay. What do you got? Uh, I am blessed to play the free people empire which come with both So they are minimalist But there is a whole bunch of kits that allow me to Make them all fancy where with feathers and really cool stuff So I prefer the low end of the scale and having less on the miniature That allows me to add my own flair to my miniatures with additional things. So Uh, take me on the low end. All right, right on morocke um, uh, I'd have to say that if it depends on the volume so like If I've got a paint Like 40 dudes and they're covered in like a bunch of details. I don't want to do that I don't want anything zangor for example like foot zangor, right Where they're just swimming with nonsense all over them and you got it. You got to have a good number of them Yeah, that's that's a no. Thank you like Like like your your umgore level of detail for stuff like that Like you get to play around with some flesh tones. There's different textures on the miniature as well so you've got fur and stuff and But when it comes to like heroes and stuff. Oh, yeah, put all the detail you want in there because I'm gonna haveish attention on that guy anyway So you might as well add all the bejangles you want on there But so yeah for for characters and stuff. I like quite a bit of detail, but for my like bigger units and Keep it simple Agreed That's I think that's where I come down like I I hate too much over detail on miniatures It's one of the things that honestly concerns me a little on the new sisters Like there's they're very small and they're just very packed with like a lot of detail and a lot of little nonsense things And I honestly like it when I as the artist get to make some decisions about like volumes and And how I want to do things and explore with freehand or not like Negative space is fun and you get to feel it like the ogres were so pleasant to paint They were just absolute pleasant from top to bottom because they have these big well defined muscle structures and like You know big fabric but you can do stuff like I could add some texture if I wanted to I could add tattoos Like I had space to work the model didn't dictate everything to me Right. I got I felt the same way I felt the same way with my gits. I painted 160 gits and they're just simple But there's so much I could do on those robes and there's not too much bejanglings Yeah, exactly like I see people do cool stuff like put checks and daggs on the moon clan robes and stuff like that Right, that's so you can paint it simple or you can paint it complicated Right you can go either way Yeah, joe. What do you what do you think you're an ogre fan? Well before you answered I was gonna I was gonna frame mine. Like I guess I'm the boring guy in a certain way But no, I care more about silhouette and movement For like the model more than what the details are exactly right rather I'd rather things just be simpler and more elegant than have doodads all over it or stuff pressed into the skin or standing on some little skull thing or Danglies all over the place. It's it's nice to have those as an option And I'm always happy when a kit comes with a whole bunch of crap you can put on your guys as an as an option But I guess I just uh, I'm I'm more simple. I like um I like the option of painting something onto it if I want or putting stuff on of If I want as well, and I you know, I like the big You know the big ogre, you know Areas to do whatever you want with and right and more more things along that those lines, I guess Yeah, it's one of the reasons I like things like like I love imperial nights, right because again A lot of an imperial night is just oh, it's like a car. I mean you face. Yeah You can go nuts You want to airbrush a a unicorn riding on on a fantasy landscape with a big pink lightning bolt in the background? You can do that. You just want it to be red. You can do that You catch her on a mountain and a wolf. Yeah You do both also. Tom's joined us. Hi Tom. Welcome Hey, hello friends Hey Tom Tom where you come down on this in the in the more complex to less complex miniatures. How do you feel? hard pass I want to get my models painted. Yeah Yes, and just get it done. Okay, like and like I mean Yeah, I just want it done Anything that's gonna make that worse is a problem. Go ahead I was gonna say do you still believe that after doing 2000 rivets on your uh, k-o ship? I mean I did that because I had to Right like yeah Like I felt that way beforehand as well Now that's not to say that I don't think make things more difficult for myself You know for my k-o anybody that are not k-o for my fire sliders anybody that had a ward save I painted like a cracked lava pattern on their entire body Like I did that and I'm still doing that I have a bunch over there that are half painted But that's to the point is that like sometimes I'll go in if that's what I want to do But also I just want to get it done and if I want to get it done I don't want all that crap like I love night haunt because it doesn't have all the crap Like it has some like nice like textures. It has some nice like differences And like it paints super quickly Yeah, and like in it and nicely as well Like I'm not talking about doing like a junk job on like the color transitions or the ghost and just a single wash That's what I'm talking about But like What it is just simply makes it go fast because of how they've decided to do the models and what they've decided to include in not right So i'm over here in a corner by myself with my fancy clothes and all the all the jangles Yes Yeah, don't get me wrong High elves did it well and and that's what I like the most about them No, they didn't no I painted an island of blood set basically and it was like one of my first painting experiences and one of my worst Because there was just so many everything Of like and it all needed to be different colors in order for it to really like pop and do the right thing And so like the little golden allegory and the little dangles off the spear Yeah, like it's just all of it Sword master is my favorite model I am I am holding on the 60 of them for when I make a great sword unit for cities of sigmar or cities of elves or whatever Whatever the the faction name will be and then i'm going to make a free city's version of that And all of those island of blood sword masters you painted those are going right on bases as great swords I love those and it's fine That that is fine my big problem Is like the loathor and seaguard like These sword masters were actually the easier paint job the loathor and seaguard were the ones that broke me Yeah, because they had every they have lamella. Yeah, they have leather That's like actually the wave pattern below the the scale and then they had a plate armor with gems. Yeah Yeah, that gold that silver they had uh, they had like, uh Like a lamellar like plate like so that you had multiple colors Yeah, you had gems you had hair you had wood on the bow and arrows And then coral hanging from the wood Yep, and then coral. Hey, it it it was just It like it was the worst. Well, and the best is after you're done with all that you get a loathor and seaguard right It's not right That's not a great reward at the end of that the end of that journey It's not like I have a unit of zangor because zangor are the same thing Like they're just the worst and they have all the textures. Yeah Yeah, but you're done. You've got zangor Right, and you're like, yeah, I got zangor, you know, but like that's that's not the world we live in right now with elves Um, that said I have not learned my lesson. I just had a sky cutter chariot. She'll remember the locks this week, so I mean It happens. Sure. Somebody reached out to me and they're like, hey, I'm at a store and they have everything old Do you want anything and I'm like, yes, what do they have of elf? So I got a couple more elf chariots. I got uh Did you get my lion chariots? So that's what I'm saying like the elf chariots Some of those when I bought when I bought three boxes of them. I know Yep, I could feel at least nine at this point. I do I could feel at least nine at this point That's not really matters. It's being able to field 18 converted white lion demograph calf. That's what matters here Three units of six. I get it. So I'm so in the corner of like of liking all of the bullshit that that they put on models because I think it's great I I think it's actually in like an intimidation factor where like they're just covered in this elegant And it's like sort of like order it's not like slanash, which is just pure excess And I think that's part of like what like drew me to high elves Well, very very, yeah, very very baroque style sort of ornamentation It is definitely intimidation, but it's intimidation for painters I mean, um, so uh, tom were you watching that were you listening in the beginning of the stream at all? Not at all All right, so what I'm working on right now and through the end of Thanksgiving is I'm working on a 75 millimeter high elf king I think I put him in the chat yesterday Yeah, yeah And yeah, and he's all of those Uh, well, I'm painting him like because the the company doesn't exist anymore So I'm not painting him as a statue I'm painting him as a real health and all of the details that are like on lothern seaguard times 1000 Yeah, yeah, it's glory. It's glorious, but it's 75 mil like so like it's not as bad because you're not with like a zero brush or like a You know a triple zero brush triple odd brush trying to paint coral Yeah, I don't know what the hell a zero odd brush is anymore I don't know Or or hyper fine like ultra fine sharp thin lines in small areas like when i'm doing um uh like uh Uh purity seal scroll work Right, that's when I get up that brush Like when I need to do hyper fine text It's like yeah When i'm trying to do I don't point font otherwise anymore sure when i'm trying to do eight point font on a 28 millimeter, right? Like that's like scaled eight right. Yeah Yeah, because like I just like like you can never get small enough With that that's it's it can always be smaller I've only I've been painting wolves for I don't know how long so it's just the eyes are just yellow. That's it About three years Yes, all the time Uh nick asked tom. Are you making doordan handgunners and thunders? Like are you are you making gunners that are made out of dwarfs handgunners out of door? Nope. Nope No, I believe in my dispossessed brethren Oh and iron drakes Yeah, so I have iron drakes all the iron drakes and um iron drakes were to end up today at crimbo bow I don't know if you watched any of the coverage, but they were doing That's they were scary. There was many tables reporting power with iron drakes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah They are a good unit. I believe there was like an army that lined up against us. It's obviously it's a team game, right? So it's a it's a yeah It's like havoc team But there was uh one of the teams was like, uh, there was a slanesh thing going on and the person That was trying to it packed in two keepers, you know into their thousand point army And I believe like iron drakes and a couple other shooting units dropped the first turn and killed both keepers outright And that was only two heroes. Yep Like enjoy your useless depravity your duck now amazing No, it's and like for 150 points like they are They are well-costed Um, they're particularly effective right now obviously because bridge allows you to send multiple small units across And they're basically all at 20 shots when they when they pop on the other side of the bridge Well, happy birthday the grand wombat. He said it's his birthday today as well 11 23. It's a great day for a birthday That's a good birthday day That's all I'm saying Uh Yeah, all right rock and roll uh Chuck said he likes the detail and hi I was with the level of detail on the blood row blood rivers was too much for him Yeah, I don't know. I thought the blood rivers were okay I I thought they were fine Like they were too bad. Wait the blood rivers like what are you talking about? Are you talking about like a corn? Barberines? Yes. Do you mean? Blood warriors, I thought blood rivers are okay blood warriors are more annoying because they do that thing Chaos does where they have like an armor plate surrounded by a Piece of metal. That's my least favorite thing Every everything has to have a trim. I don't I don't get that Yeah, my dwarves right now everything has a trim like all the dis was us in a pain, but it looked really It looked really good on the varingard like their armor with the trim is sharp as all get out Oh, I mean sure, but you want to talk about over designed miniatures Like sure the varingard are like the the poster boys for over design But you know, but like what are you gonna paint six of them in your entire life? Like, I mean, you know, it's They're not a they're not a horde. You know, I don't know. We'll find out in a month. I guess We'll find out in a month. Yeah, probably like two to three weeks now at this point. So there you go Yeah, we'll see arkeon plus uh 12 varingard 2000 points, you know Instead of nine Yeah, instead of nine I mean Remember Remember varingard starting cost and they've gone down something like 60 a year for four years And they were Wonder what there was 360 They were 120 points a model They yeah, they they were 120 points a model Which was the same as the drakoffs riders when they were like competitive But you only had to pay for two drakoffs We had to pay for three varingard So it's like 240 for two fulminators or 360 for three varingard and fulminators Especially back then when people were like legit taking them. It was like no contest Yeah Yep When they come back out, obviously, they'll be uh, they'll be 30 points for for three. So, you know, just standard Right. Yeah And have good allegiance abilities. Sure checks out. Yep Uh, I all right guys, if you don't mind i'm gonna hop off by marty. Thanks for hanging out buddy Again, yeah, welcome and happy birthday again. Thanks for letting me uh, come on and everybody have a good night Same to you sir. Say my youtube man No, I I agree like very good By all means Of course, I was very glad to have you sir. Appreciate you being here Thanks, Joe. See you later, buddy Yeah All right I I'm leaving it. I'm gonna just prep you. I'm leaving a couple minutes. I figured you were just dropping in for a few minutes That's okay. We're not gonna be here super much longer. This isn't like an all day thing Uh, this is yeah, we're we're already Three hours. So you know, there you go Yeah, you're already you're already dwindling down to only 129 viewers No, it's fine. I'm not worried about that. I I hope everybody's watching is having a good time I like all the discussions that people have suggested that's been great It's awesome Uh, I just have to actually play a warhammer game As as crazy as that is uh, who else coming overnight? Uh, just it's gonna be a small game. So what it's it's unusually a one-on-one game tonight. So there you go What are you taking I don't know yet This is a thing that plagues me every time so every time I sit down to play because because of the How many armies do you have 13 now? Um, and it's that's not trying to clearly play ogres What's that? Like you just you just painted them go actually take the ogres out for a spin Sure, I could take the ogres out for spin. Well, that's what I was going to say Is that like every time I I I sit down to play I have a lot of uh, I have a lot of consternation over Exactly what to pick and play with like oh, whoa, whoa, whoa is me right like what a What a what a miniatures first world problem that is um But uh, you know, I like playing my iron jaws a lot Obviously should not slanesh is on the shelf. So that's not a problem. No no issue there Uh, but like I like to play in the jaws. I like getting my skaven out. That's always fun I especially like running, you know weird skaven armies Like we're because we're not playing highly competitive games. So I like to play like weird skaven armies Uh, like doing a full mold or build or something like that is fun those kinds of things So, yeah, I don't know I really should I mean, I guess I have to kind of adjust my army number In that two of those armies I'm counting are Bretonia and two kings, but I suppose they are Theoretically legal now that they're sitting in the compendium. There's your museum, right? Yeah, they're in the museum. Yeah, no, you're just you're just ahead of the matter for the old world Game coming I'm way ahead of the game Got two armies ready to go Uh, there's there's some number of those tomb kings that are on round bases, but very little Which you might say, why would you rebase part of an army? The answer is because I don't care Uh, I rebased part of it because I needed to take some photos of it for tyler When he did the the the the uh his tomb kings army project. So I rebased him of mine to add some photos for him Man, that was a good book. That was such a cool book It was a great book. He did a great job. Yes, exactly LV like, uh It's I have all these beautiful RVs woe is me. Yeah 100% Oh, jeez feel bad for me and my decision my my indecision But no, I'll probably play the ogres just because why not it'll be I imagine my opponent will be playing corn So that'll be a good match corn against ogres is fun Two armies that want to get in and punch each other real hard is a good time Seems Yeah, that's legit seems like ogres chew that one out I don't know I mean the like especially if you're going MSU ogres that might actually not end well for you because of the, uh That just means late term blood bloodthirster for them. Sure. Yeah, but it's his birthday So if they beat him on his birthday that your opponent's a jerk Nah, not at all. It's it's going to be a fun game either way. I love I love playing corn. It's always fun Like corn is such a fun army to play against Uh It's a fun army to to like we talked about it a little earlier and you know, one of the challenges is the whole like, um It is kind of a fiddly ish army But but at the same time it does have bloodtide itself as a concept Is like one of the better concepts they've ever come up with Now we can talk about like the execution of how it turns into summoning and all that Yep, and maybe that's off or whatever, but you're just saying that there's there's consolation prizes Yes, like being rewarded for losing units Is incredibly fun because then even if you lose a unit you're like about bloodtithe point you get the corn consolation prize Right and that's just so like there's a little positive thing that happens every even if you if one of your units gets wiped out Uh, that's great Yeah, uh, yeah, and and there's someone who plays a lot against a lot of corn. They're probably one of my favorite I played uh, one of astrali's best players the other week matt campbell and I did lose at the end But it's always a good game. I think we lose a draw against corn. You always have a good time. So Um, I haven't yet to be proven wrong on that one. So uh, I I agree like they always feel like they're playing a Compelling game with you right and like there they have some tricks, but it's not overwhelming You're not trying to keep a million things in your mind But you got to watch that bloodtithe because it might suddenly charge you or fight you in the hero phase or just do crazy stuff So like they're just fun to play against, you know, it depends on what kind of list you're playing as well um Because like I'm not thinking of like I will agree I'm thinking of like more of the mortal based force than like the Four bloodthirster kind of council of blood spam Well, like let me say it this way I don't think I've ever lost against any game against corn Okay, that's a bold statement I'm thinking through sure No, like I like I I honestly whether it's like friendly local games or event games I don't know that I've ever lost a game against corn and I think it might be because of the types of armies that I play sure like Some like because of the matchups the corn Yeah, go ahead go ahead Tom I was just saying because of the way that some of the matchups like because of the way the types of tools that I bring to the table Like it makes a lot of corn matches non-starters for them Gotcha I mean, that's right. You know, I don't feel bad about that But it's just like it's because of the weaknesses of that that army I I love playing against corn. It's it's always amazing It it's always amazing because I don't know the the corn army feels very like Urgent Like everything has to happen right now, you know what I mean like they're rushing across the board to get into combat with you They're Everything's moving as fast as it possibly can like everything feels like it's two minutes to midnight in the game and I don't I just I love that like high intensity like I'm gonna get you I'm gonna get you All right, right on Tom. There's a question in the chat here. I want you to answer Okay Here we go. Oh who Tom I want Tom to answer it All right, here's the question Tom if you were using ko bits for converting ogres into mildly fancy lads And you had to pick one ko kit for bits. Which one? What do you mean mildly fancy lads? I don't know like just I imagine Imagine what he means How do you make ogres fancy lads using some ko bits? How about like the full face masks of endring rigors or Skywardens replacing the ogre heads so they have yeah, the the heads are too small like the ogre heads are too small You mean the ko heads are too small are the ko's are too small. I think Well while tom thinks about this, I'm going to tell you to ignore ko You're gonna go to get some free guild handgunners and you're gonna go pick up the awesome monkey that's holding the barrel He's a fancy. He's got something I know something fancy You've got a whole bunch of feathers in that that as well as other nice little fancy things you can add to your ogres So forget the dwarves. It's all about the humans. I mean if I was going to do that I honestly would make a bunch of green stuff top hats And then stick feathers in like the bands around the top hat from the free guild stuff Um, that's fancy to me. That's classic Um, you could go the you could go the funny route as well and just like cut the faces off of the The ko heads and just sort of crudely put them on and then green stuff straps on the back So the ogres are wearing these masks that are too small for their faces I like bang masks from ko That would be I mean, I think your best bet like I've been so I think you're correct Your best bet would be that like if any heads fit it's going to be the endringer heads, right? Because they have these super long beards And they are like disproportionately a little bit larger than the rest of the ko heads So I think that's your best bet from ko That said like I I'll bet you could order like 35 millimeter straw hats What's fancy about a straw hat hold on wait for it and then do like like Green stuffed overalls and you could make a bunch of Cajuns making gumbo Like that's a project That's a project that I've been dreaming about doing like an ogre like Like Cajun theme so instead of like saber tigers you have like alligators Get the necromunda alligators. Oh you could do that or like I think titan ford used to have um They used to have a bunch of ogres in this like vein Yeah, no, I saw one on ebay. It's been there for about 12 months. Uh, yeah, exactly 400 bucks, but it's a sweet ogre Yeah, I know I'm going to check titan ford again. It makes me wonder Oh, they're the blood blood sale island. So they're their blood sale is mostly like pirate ogres Like that's what they're going for is the pirate ogres Um, but you could still use their alligators because they have like the gator cannon Which actually looks like a Oh, see that That's what i'm talking about hold on Oh, no, tom's down a rabbit hole. I am he's now. No, he's a player. He's excited now Here you go. We're sharing screen. We're going in here. So here's the gator cannon I'll lock on you real quick tom so he doesn't go away There's the gator cannon. Look at that bad boy You have a bunch of gators There's a scrap launcher right there. Yeah, that's or yeah. Yeah, it needs to be a scrap launcher not a Not the other one Um the bad one and uh, so that's one of them. Hold on wait for it and then talk about fancy Look at this. Look at this snake fighter. Look at this dude's top hat He's brock. He's brock of ogres It is Yeah, look at him. Look at this. Look look at this calf. You have some morn fang there scuba steve in the back Just saying do do like some of the uh, sculpt these in and do the uh, the resin bases. Um So you do the water just saying like there's Doing doing cajun slash ogres and you use some top hat in there be be amazing and here's scuba steve, obviously That's a that's a crab All right, is it? Is that what I'm saying? No, it's it does say gator crab, but it's because the guy I think has crab claws Ah, yeah Yeah, he has a he like his one arm is a crab claw the claw It's saying lots of really interesting conversions and you could get some of the fancy stuff. Um uh Now I wouldn't yeah I mean they have some good all pirate stuff here. This is neat. I like this he's saying you can your ogres can be both fancy boys and Can can also have a distinctly Caribbean feel all the same time Right like that was that was part of the culture was to these two Like for the uh, you know, like they had the they had the Well, I'm not gonna go like that. Anyways, yes, you could do something like that. It'd be neat And some of these guys should have great top hats like imagine this guy with goggles and top hat right there. Bam We look wonderful So that would be an easy way to do it. Um Rather than using ko bits. I just I don't know that ko is is the right like thing for that. Does that make sense? sure Uh, somebody asked where they can get the mug We had run a thing a little while back where we did some merchandise. We did a single order Uh, the answer is hopefully at some point in the future I am able to basically host it somewhere where I can just actually have it readily available So at the moment do this saratoza In the vampires that were very much that The ship that crashed into into lustry. I know I thought that would be a sweet narrative and it'd be such a cool army to do Um, so yeah, I'm on board tom Yeah, like my struggle is this like so I have basically like I have a the makings of an ogre army like I like Because I've been reselling feast of bones um, or I I got some boxes sold off all the The one guys and so I have a bunch of ogres and Like I saw I'm like most of the way to an army, right? I'm I'm right now. I'm still planning on selling them like I'm not starting a new army like to be very clear I'm planning on selling these guys We all hear this is I thought about like well, maybe I do in our ogre army in the new year And the reality is is like it just wasn't compelling Like the aesthetic of the like big, you know, the big boy Blood spattered Like I just it wasn't it didn't catch my fancy And like I love the mechanics and I love all that but I don't like the aesthetics um And that's really a problem and so I don't know maybe the titan forge stuff is the right the right way to go Like if I wanted to do an ogre army pick up a bunch of their stuff and go with like the pyrovers With ko being rumored to get a new book. Is it really worth it as well? It's probably might be 2021 kind of like I mean I got bird uh by picking up like 3000 points of silvaneth. I picked up I was gonna convert a ryan out of uh madness and do his cool stuff And then literally the book when silvaneth dropped was the same afternoon that cities of sygma was announced So, uh, I am very cautious these days Yeah, I mean like dude, I think you're dead on because at the end of the day like Give me just one second. Hold on tom. Hold on Uh Because Emily said it cut out when I was talking about merchandise stuff So I just want to answer that real quick the answer is at some point in the future We will have it hosted somewhere where it is available. There you go. Okay. Please continue, john Yeah, I mean I think at the end of the day my challenge is um Like I'm at a place now where like I've been playing my night haunt. I have my night haunt I can I can easily pop that out to to 2k Um, like and and like so that's not a struggle at all I'm working on my dwarves now Like my expanding out so that I have like a true city's dispossessed force um, but I also have a full fireslayer force that I could finish up And chaos about to get refreshed and so like I'm in a really good spot for a competitive play because I have all new books that I can basically bounce between fireslayers cities and Um and and the new ko pretty easily Um And so it's real hard for me to even want to finish my night haunt or my like my elf soul You know, like my soul stealing project when I have this other stuff that like You know, I really enjoy like and I've really enjoyed painting and And doing so um, I agree with you like it's real hard for me to begin to even consider a new army When I have a bunch of stuff that I've been working on but I'd love to see realize You know, I have all the models for a pure um gloom like a pure spider fang loom spite army right And not only that like not just spiders. That's not what I mean. I mean like I have Yeah, I I remember you going out and buying the um the scuttle. No, what's it called the um, yeah Yeah, like that when when you mentioned it and I'm like, oh, would that be a cool idea? I'd love to see that realize on the table Like I have 150 of those guys From silver tower. Wow um, and so like or more Like let me clarify or more and I have at least one unit of uh, a 20 man of of spider Like of the archers that were on the arachnid rock So 20 of the archers on the arachnid rock based as like foot archers So I could at least do like two melee blocks and And I think I maybe I may have actually gotten the whole 180 of doing two melee blocks of 60 Of the the spiderlings and then a 60 block of the archers and then a 20 foot block So like I could do like a standard gloom spite thing of all spiders in addition to an arachnid rock and all But you know, like I also have like 80 80 actual spider writers um so Like I could do the full spider Uh Gloom spite build as well And that's another thing that I like so I have these other projects that are better passion projects that are hobby projects That I'd love to just keep working on and expanding And so it's real hard for me to really like get into any of these other armies when I just have things I can do That I enjoy that are competitive um Sure, but I don't know it's fair. I could do uh, I could do uh A pirate caribbean ogre's army Yeah, I I feel you I mean I could drive with my feet doesn't make it a good idea and We live in a world where we have too much good hobby going around We do we do it's so true like it's so hard like when You know us content creators, right? We're always talking about uh new armies And you know you get passionate people about these armies and they start unlocking this Oh, that'd be really cool. I should try this And you get this like you get stuck in this I want to do everything, but I'm doing nothing at the same time. So it becomes a very very hard challenge It's uh, it's easy to get swept up when you're when you when you're sort of Tasked with talking about everything right as part of what you're like, okay It's time to it's time to buckle down. It's time to do something serious. So now we do this Um really good pirate See no bloods No, like yeah, doom for noblars. That's exactly right. So do like pirate halflings and then do these blood sail ogres For like as pirates as well That's so cool. Don't tell me that There you go. We're back. Sorry everyone I'm gonna figure this stream problem out. I promise at some point I'm saying there might be some pretty easy conversions there And that might make a really interesting army Sure, give me give me a good reason to to bring out the uh the halfling hot pot Right like when you do the hot pot for the the junk mob Like the uh the scrap launcher you do you like you do Maybe it's my terrain piece. Maybe it's the maw pot No, the the maw pot's a big gumbo pot okay Maybe the check the check can help us. Maybe they can guide us to how we how we create this dream So i'm thinking about Yeah, I don't know. I need to think about it. I don't need to start a new army like at the end of the day But don't you I don't are you sure I've made it. I've made it 11 months. Do you know that 11 months without starting a new army? Well one, that's a lie, but okay and two What army have I started you did like a whole army of ghosts you're adding a bunch of stuff here No, no, no, I had all those models Uh-huh, uh-huh Like those were literally models on my shelf. I put together and just uh and painted. I understand that's still doing a new army I the the promise was I would not start any army, but I did not already have models for Well, that's see that's not even really that much of a commitment Your your shelves are packed to the ceiling you could do seven You could not buy anything for the next 12 years And only hobby and you would still have you would still not be through your stack of nonsense Uh, first of all, I've gotten rid of a lot of my nonsense. Uh, second of all I mean a lot of my nonsense quote tom 2019 I mean I have like most of that stuff that I previewed on my like crazy insane video that I did years ago Um, like I don't have most of those armies now like a lot of that stuff I've just straight up sold like all of my wonders To be fair your your shelf did look pretty crazy. So either you've just moved them off camera or you've actually flipped them No, I have like I've I've I've liquidated down to like I still have a pretty strong nergal force that I need to paint up Um, I have a pretty significant storm cast force I have a pretty significant night haunt that I need to paint My son's iron jaws, which he's been working on Um, and then I still have a remnants of like I have a big hyalpharmy and I have a big tomb kings army um And then my orcs like in my orcs or my gobble. I'm sorry not my orcs my goblin like spider fang stuff um, I have a little bit of a remnant of Zinch that I don't know what to do with because I like back when you could summon demons I had like I painted up 10 pink horrors 20 brims 20 Like 20 blue horse 20 brims um for just summoning purposes um And so like I'm like I have a start on a zinch army if I wanted to do that Um, I have some like zangor and stuff like that as well So when the book drops like I'll say this if they do a double box of zinch and ko this february um I could definitely see me starting both of those armies Good lord, and you want to start an ogre army as well? And I you know, I thought about an ogre. I don't know like um Yeah Yeah, the impetus for that has passed. Let me say that way uh for the ogre army product like largely because Originally like the talk was I was going to do um Like I was potentially going to do that as my 1k force for a depticon Yeah, I was gonna say like that could be like a good holy wars a depticon type thing But you know, do you want to do to it 2k? Maybe not? Maybe not maybe not So but like but I'm not gonna do that for my 1k. I think we're gonna do all death, which will be fun So I'll play my My night haunt for that. I think um stay tuned next week to find out what they switched to next 17 different ideas have been floated since you decided you're gonna do this teams event. I can't wait I feel like this is something that people your your viewers need to clip and uh when you get to the episode of what you're actually gonna run We can play off all this theory. Well, so my teams by the way have completely changed We were aiming for like a hobby like a very strong hobby team Um, and then we ran into some hiccups of scheduling and basically everybody from that are a lot of people My two of my four people of the team had had to drop or dropped um, and so it went from that to um a bunch of like streamers and internet famous people And so that's the new team and we completely went from like a cities of sigmar concept Which i'm glad because it seems like a lot of people are doing that now And I think we're gonna go all death, which will be fun Because who doesn't like ocr phone reverse? Sure Any ocr phone reverse tom? Nope. Nope. I'm doing night hot. Hmm. Okay. Okay. Okay Mm-hmm I'm doing ghosts. Sure. No, I I believe you I totally believe you I'm doing I am doing ghosts Um, he did he did say he's he bought a whole bunch of those pieces of bones and flipped them and he's now got a Lot of awks. That's an awk. Okay. So Like yeah, I did not keep any of those models Um, and like the other people are all doing ocr not all of them to like two of them I think so two of us are gonna one's gonna two are gonna do ocr probably I'm gonna do night hot and then I think we the port player might do fec so Gonna be fun be fun You could pretty easily even in the format of like not duplicating scrolls that aren't battle line You could easily do like three three ocr lists Um, you couldn't duplicate petrofex, which would be the crime Um, but you could do you have it with that point zine. No, I don't say you need a null myriad Yeah, but if I got two battle line choices But you can duplicate them But like that's the key is that like any pure battle line for the team's event you can duplicate So if it's not battle line if it's just battle line, you can duplicate those units, which guess what? More tech and cav done All right. Yeah, that's that changes things a little bit I play in team tournaments where you can't duplicate any war scroll So that would put that would put the three out, but if you can duplicate battle line different story Yeah, because like you could go with like a heavy crawler list You could go with just a heavy more tech list and you could go with a heavy Um, harvest realist Like like harvester and and and more tech and those is just more tech Or cav um, and then like arc and leading one and then you got some bone shapers leading one and Yeah, lots of options there I'm just doing ghosts though I might try something new maybe the legion at grief. That'll be fun No, I'm I'm sure you're just gonna be doing ghosts. I I would I have no reason to think otherwise so But there's no chance at all as far as I could tell that at that uh two weeks from now You would have a completely different idea It just it just wouldn't occur I I am I think we can all just lock it in now And and yes heroes and bosses. Yes. It is my 40th birthday today. That's that's the the reason for the season as it were Uh, unfortunately, I'm gonna have to bail on us now. So that's okay. I was about I I promised, uh a short 20 to 30 minute call and I'm going on 50 minutes So yeah, I taught my wife that I would get be any for an hour and I think it's close to 19 minutes But I've enjoyed it none the less. No, that's okay because I was just about to call it a day anyways So, uh, to all of you out there watching. Thank you so much for hanging out. This has been absolutely wonderful Thank you for all the birthday wishes wishes not witches Although if you want to send some of those along that's fine, too, I suppose But, uh, thank you for all the birthday wishes. Thank you everybody For having a birthday to you. Stop that. Stop it Happy birthday to you Happy birthday, divin. Although you do Happy birthday to you No demonetization done Please don't worry about copa. It's all about I've just democratized the whole stream. Yeah, exactly No, but seriously, thank you everyone, uh for for hanging out. This has been great A wonderful way to celebrate becoming Middle-aged. I couldn't be happier about it Looking forward to many more happy years of of hanging out with all of you coach tom everybody else who was here Thank you so much guys And to all of you out there. Have a great rest of your weekend and we'll see you next week as normal Bye. Bye