 All right, Lynn, go ahead. Okay. Good evening. We have two meetings tonight. The first is at six o'clock and the second is at seven. The first is a special town council meeting with the Jones Library trustees. I'm going to start by just the usual statement. We are allowed to meet virtually. Thanks to Governor Baker's March 12th order. I'll call each counselor by name, and they can hear me and we can hear them and ask them to unmute their microphone and then mute it again after saying present. So let's start with Shalini Balmone. Present. Alyssa Brewer. Present. At the Angeles. Present. Darcy Dumont. Present. Lynn Griezmer is present. Mandy Johanicki. Present. Dorothy Pan. Present. Evan Ross is absent tonight. George Ryan. Present. Kathy Shane, we expect to join us. Steve Schreiber. Present. Andy Steinberg. Present. Sarah Schwartz is not able to be with us tonight. Seeing that we have a quorum of the council, I'm calling this July 13th meeting to order at 6.06. Lynn, would you please proceed to call the library trustees to order? Thanks, Lynn. We'll do. And thank you to the town council for agreeing to this joint meeting. Tammy Ely. Present. Alex Lefebvre. Present. Robert Pam. Present. Lee Edwards. Present. Chris Hoffman. Present. And Austin Serrad. I'm present. So we are, the library trustees are in order and ready to meet at 6.06. Great. This meeting includes audio, video, and is available live on Amherst Media. It is also being recorded. There is no chat room for this meeting as it is a webinar. If you have technical issues, if you were either on the library trustees or if you are on the council, please let us know by letting Sharon or Austin know, or in my case, letting me or Athena know. And we will make sure that we note that and try to get you reconnected as soon as possible. There is information that was shown on the screen earlier on how to connect. And we will continue, we will proceed from there. Tonight, we have an opportunity to hear expert opinion on one of the several outstanding questions regarding the Jones Library. Quite simply, the question is, what will it cost to repair the Jones Library? This question was raised during Joint Capital Planning Committee meetings as far back as 2017, which led to the first repair quote. But that did not include accessibility costs, often tripped by a magic number of $5 million, or actually maybe less. It was discussed again in 2018 and in 2019. It was regularly heard during the Capital Project Listening Sessions, held in December of 2019. Clearly, it is a question that precedes any other questions down the road. Therefore, I asked the Jones Library trustees to provide us with an answer and to include in their estimate the cost of spreading it over more than one year. With their consultants at Cune Riddle working with Western builders, they are now able to provide us with the answer. This is a presentation about repairing the Jones Library, which by the very nature of its extensiveness of those repairs trips the Americans with Disabilities Act regarding accessibility. Tonight's agenda does not include the following, and therefore these questions are not on the table tonight. What will it cost to renovate, not repair, renovate the existing library? What would it cost to rearrange the space in the existing library? We will not be discussing what it would cost to make the Jones Library more sustainable. And we will not be discussing what it would cost to expand the programming of the Jones Library. And, most importantly, is not about what the Town Council will do, if and when the Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners offers us a construction grant requiring significant town match and Jones Library fundraising. So none of those are on the table tonight. We know these questions are out there, but in the hour we are able to devote to this presentation, we are not going to discuss any of those issues. As we have additional information, we will have those discussions, but not at this point. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Austin, and I believe you are going to have Elon Tierney from Cune Riddle present. Thank you, Lynn. And again, I appreciate the opportunity to meet with the Town Council and to discuss the repair estimate. As you all know, this is really the second step of the examination of the repair, of the possible repair of the Jones Library in 2017. We received an estimate from Western builders of $9.5 million for the repair of the Jones, including among other things upgrading and dealing with the serious problems in our mechanical, electrical, and plumbing unit. Those problems are so severe, they happen at the Jones Library every day. We have today encountered another one, a leakage in the HVAC system, which has done damage in special collections. Following up on that and in response to the discussions that Lynn summarized, we asked Cune Riddle to build on the Western builders' estimates and to look at, in addition to those costs, what it would cost to make the library accessible. And by accessible, we meant to meet the requirements of federal and state law. And what Elon is going to talk to you about tonight is the results of the Cune Riddle study. I want to say great thanks to Elon and Cune Riddle for what I think is very valuable and good work. Elon? Thank you, Austin, and thank you, everyone, for coming to this meeting tonight. I'm going to show a series of slides, only 10, that's a brief summary of the study that we did. I'm going to try to share my screen now. Can everyone see my screen? Yes, thank you. OK, so let's see if I can get it to work. So just a little bit about Cune Riddle. Whoops, well, I'll go through that quickly. I'm Elon Tierney. I am president of Cune Riddle Architects. I did this study in conjunction with one of my senior project managers, Liv Wyatt. Cune Riddle Architects has been in Amherst since 1988, founded by John Cune and Chris Riddle. And I became president in 2018, along with my two partners, Charles Roberts and Jonathan Salvon. So let me back up a little bit because I seem to have jumped forward. OK, apologize, there's a delay. So why an accessibility study? Some something has already been mentioned about that by both Lynn and Austin. In 2017, Western builders provided an existing building evaluation and identified required building repairs. And those repairs focused on the following. Replace the large skylight in the center of the building. Replace the south elevator, which is small and in need of repair. Some interior improvements such as replacing carpeting, painting, et cetera. Mechanical, electrical and plumbing improvements were the largest items. Structural improvements, which went along with some of those mechanical, electrical and plumbing improvements and exterior improvements. So the envelope of the building, the masonry windows, doors, et cetera. Their review, Western builders review, did not take into account many of the accessibility upgrades that would be required based on those associated costs. So the purpose of this study was to identify what would be required if they move forward, if the Jones Library moved forward with some of those repairs. And hopefully this study is giving you the information that you need in order to look at what is the cost required to do the building repairs versus the cost for a whole building renovation addition as proposed by Fine Gold Sender. OK, so accessibility regulations. Lynn mentioned that there's the ADA or the Americans with Disabilities Act that is a federal civil rights legislation intended to reduce physical barriers to people with disabilities. As a civil rights legislation, enforcement is via litigation, not by the local building inspector. Massachusetts has its own set of accessibility regulations, which is called the Massachusetts Architectural Access Board regulations. We often refer to it as MAAB, and it is part of the building code and enforced by the local building inspector. The requirements of the Massachusetts regulation is very similar to the ADA. And in some cases, it's more stringent. We primarily focused on the Massachusetts Architectural Access Board requirements as it is something that is triggered when you do any type of construction. And I'll explain a little bit more about that. I did want to mention that for existing and especially historic buildings, there is a variance process for certain features that you may be able to avoid doing because it's a historic building. But this particular study did not take that into account. It's a much larger process. So the accessibility trigger. The Massachusetts Architectural Access Board code states that regarding existing buildings, renovations or additions, if the work performed, including the exempted work and exempted work, can sometimes be roofing or replacing windows amounts to 30 percent or more of the full and fair cash value of the building. It's just the building and not the building in the site, just the building. The entire building is required to comply with 521 CMR, which is the Massachusetts Architectural Access Board. So the Jones Library is assessed by the town of Amherst at nineteen million one hundred and ninety six thousand dollars. And 30 percent of that value is five million seven hundred and fifty eight thousand eight hundred dollars. So that's the trigger. So what did we do with respect to this study? Cuneville Architects myself and Liv Wyatt did a walkthrough of the building. Liv actually spent several days going through the building, photographing, looking at all the various details, which are required to be accessible and identified them on drawings. And then we created Task Two, which is the accessibility scope of work narrative. So we identified all of the issues that needed to be repaired. If that trigger was was triggered and that scope of work was then used along with the drawings by Western builders to create a cost estimate. We also did a thorough code review for the mass Massachusetts Architectural Access Board. So just going through that, all the regulations and identifying which ones were applicable to this particular project. So all of those documents were delivered to Western builders. We discussed with them what we had found and they prepared a cost estimate based on the proposed repairs that would be required. We then compiled all of those documents together and had several meetings throughout this process. We met initially with the Jones Library representatives through the scope of work narrative, accessibility code review, and confirm with them if they had any questions about it. And then we reviewed that together with Western builders. We then received the cost estimates back and reviewed that again with Jones Library representatives. And then we compiled the entire study document. And the following slides are just a very brief summary of that. When we were preparing the study, the Jones Library Board of Trustees requested that we review if the proposed work could be performed in phases, which is what Lynn had mentioned. And at what point the value of the work would require full compliance with the access code. In addition, they asked us to look at what is the most logical flow of work based on discrete construction projects. So which ones could you do without triggering other ones? What work has the highest priority based on the age of the systems or deterioration of the building systems? What is the most cost-effective way to approach the phases? And what, if any, work could be completed while the library remains occupied? So we reviewed this with Western builders as contractors. They could help us think about all of these questions. Some of the questions in terms of priority is really the knowledge of the Jones Library in terms of how old the systems are and the amount of maintenance that they're doing regularly on the systems. Ultimately, we looked at two different options. The first option is what we like to call the lowest cost first. So how can we do these projects without triggering the accessibility code? And what are the sort of the discrete projects that would make sense to do together? And this is based on conversations with Western builders. So I don't know if you can see my cursor on the screen. Yes. Okay. So phase one or the first year, year 2021 would include replacing the skylight and the south elevator. The design fees that would be required is about 12%. That's typical for a historic renovation. The library would need to be closed for 30 weeks and move out, which would cost $650,000. That number was taken from Feingold Alexander's estimates for relocating the library. And that phase total then would be about $2.3 million. Figuring that you'd need to take a break between projects. The next project we proposed would be the exterior improvements. There would be three years worth of escalation at 4%. So the cost, the construction cost would be a little over $2 million. About 26 weeks. Because it's just exterior work, you would not have to move out of the library. There would be design fees included. And the total for that phase would be 2.26. So we haven't triggered the 5.758 million yet. So we have to move out of the library in those two phases, but phase three would require triggering all of those items. And these items, interior improvement, MEP systems, structural improvements are all linked together. You can't really do those projects separately. Without a lot of additional cost. So that would automatically trigger the accessibility improvements. And this number, the 1.194886, that is the cost of. That we discovered in this study. So the total for that is 8.3 million plus five years of escalation is close to 1.8 million. The total for phase three would be about 10 million. So that would be a full year project. And it would require again, design fees and moving out of the library and relocating. And we figured five years down the road, there'd also be escalation on that cost. And so we're at 12 million point two. Looking at all of these projects to complete all of these repairs, you'd end up at almost $17 million. The next option that we looked at was. What's most important? What's the work that needs to happen? First, and it's our understanding that the MEP systems are the systems that are really failing and need attention. And as I said earlier, the MEP systems are linked with the structural systems and the interior upgrades. And once you spend, start spending that money, you've triggered the 30% value. So then you have to do the accessibility improvements. And part of the accessibility improvements would also require replacing the south elevator. And then once you've done all of that other interior work, it doesn't really make sense to do the skylight separately later on. So this really becomes a two phase project. The first phase being all of the interior work. And the second phase being all of the exterior work. So the first phase proposed in 2022, because it'll take more time to complete all of the design work. Would come to $10.2 million. Add in design fees. And moving out and you're up to a little over $12 million. However, in this scheme, you're only moving out once. Because the second phase of work done three years or two years earlier would just be the exterior improvements. And the library can remain occupied during that work. So in summary, both of these options would bring the building into full compliance and provide the building with new systems, which would last 25 to 50 years. Before systems would require replacement again. These repair projects would not increase the library space or modify or improve the spaces within the library. The library would essentially function as it is currently functioning. This is just about the repairs. That's my summary of, of our study. And I don't know if we open up to questions. I'll go back to Lynn at this point or Austin. Thank you. Go ahead. We're going to open up to questions. We'll go back up depending on questions. But we're going to start with questions from. The town council. And the first hand up is Steve Schreiber. Thank you. So I've watched the presentation that you gave to the board of trustees and they also watch the sustainability. Committee meeting. In which the topic of the pandemic was brought up. So I guess I'll ask it now. Being the first question asked. Is. Well, I guess I really have two questions. So one is in particular regarding the MEP, that does the mechanical electrical plumbing. So nobody knows what the best science is in dealing with. You know, the, the viruses. So I'm just curious about. What your opinion is, or may there be extra costs, or maybe there'd be a different way of thinking about. The mechanical part of this in light of. Really our new concerns or new different kinds of concerns about indoor air quality. And then I guess I have a second question that's also related to the pandemic, which has to do with a value statement. So one thing you did not cover is whether or not this is worth it. So in other words, what we're getting is a library. It's not the same as it is, but just with new systems in it. And so you as an architect, you're also looking at this as when you talk to your clients, you're talking to them, whether or not it would be worth putting all this money in when you're just getting the same. And then particularly in the light of the, so I looked at all the diagrams in the, the report that you prepared. And there's diagrams of the conference rooms. And I have to confess that I shuttered a little bit because those rooms are very small, very crowded. So I'm just wondering if you're willing to comment on either of those. So the mechanical. And then just overall value as to whether or not this is worth it. So, Eileen. Elon. Please stick to the first question. And then we'll go to the second. Okay. So the first question about the current COVID crisis and air quality. First of all, that was not part of the plan. In fact, we started the study right before everything fell apart, I guess. What I will say is that is. It's all very new. And the HVAC experts are figuring it out. And I can't really speak to that personally, other than to say that I am very, there will be a lot of information about that coming out. So the second question, is it worth it? Intentionally, I, this study was meant to be just looking at the numbers and not about the values. And really the, I think the point of this is to provide you with a lot of information about that coming out. And it's really up to you as, as a town to make a decision about. How does one value the other? And I'm sure that fine gold Alexander would say that libraries are being used very differently now and in the future. Then they were in the past. So I'm not going to answer the question. Kathy, you have your hand up. Yes, and I apologize for joining late. Somehow I put the wrong time in my calendar. So if, if this is a repeat, just stop me. As you looked at a build on Steve's question, as you looked at the way spaces being used currently, it configured. And I know you, because in the report, you periodically talk about something in the fun gold Alexander report. Did you have any sense of how we, it could be reconfigured or do you know whether there are space, space, and I don't mean outer space. I mean library space consultants who can do what. People with old houses often have them do and say, if you moved this to here. So for example, in FAA's design, special collections is moved to a different part of the old wing. Oh, old building. And, you know, thinking about children. Did you have any impression of that? Or I know you weren't asked to do it, but in terms of walk around or thinking about it. That's a difficult question to answer because it's as architects, we walk into a space and are constantly thinking about how it's impacting us and how it might be impacting others. But the reality is that this study, we were asked specifically just to look at the existing conditions and the accessibility of the existing conditions. And it's a dangerous slope. Once you start to tinker around and think about how the space could be better organized. And that is a much larger study. So as, as hard as it is as architects to not try to think about how to reorganize the space, we had to intentionally not do that. Otherwise, we would just spiral down into that rabbit hole and that's a much larger scope of services. But it is a scope of services that architects can do. Of course, just like renovating your home and thinking about where the kitchen and dining room are and maybe flipping them as better. That is absolutely something that architects do and, and especially architects that specialize in libraries. Can I just, build on one part of that for the special collections. The current location. With an open door that makes it hard to do climate control. Does what you propose solve that problem? No. That the, all of the mechanical systems that were reviewed by Western builders, we just built off of that study. That was previously done in 2017. We did not review or reevaluate the study that they have proposed. And it's my understanding that that. The special collections. Peace was not reviewed thoroughly. So I think that's still an issue that needs to be. Considered. Thank you. Lynn, may I just say, I'm not sure what you're talking about. When we go into the next phase of conversations with the town council, I think it'll be very helpful for all of us to review actually what the board of trustees did to get us to this point. And of course, one of the things that we did was we examined the question of what we could do. With the existing space. And we concluded at the time that we could, we could review what the board of trustees did to get us to this point. And then we looked at what we could do with the existing space. And we concluded at the time that we could not with the existing space accommodate. The program of the library. So when the time comes, I think it'll be very helpful for all of us to review those studies and to kind of walk through the evolution. Of why it is that the board of trustees. Found that we could not do what needed to be done with the existing space. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Dorothy, you have your hand up. My question is, what are we supposed to do with this? And that's a serious question. Do you want me to answer it? You can go ahead and yeah. So the point of this study was to look at how much. The building costs X amount of dollars in conjunction with the required accessibility. Upgrades or repairs. And I think the idea is to go off of Steve's comments. Way the value of that. Just repairing the building costs X amount of dollars. Doing the renovation expansion costs X amount of dollars. What is the value to you as a community? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Given that there would be accessibility on all of the floors. After that, if we chose this option one or two. Doesn't that open up some space in the library? That hasn't really been able to be used very well. And does it also give us the option. To move. To move administrative offices. It does seem like. There should be some flexibility if we have accessibility throughout the building. That, um, that's a, that's a possibility, but it doesn't expand the space or move any walls or. Change any of the layout. This, this study did not look at that. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I understand that. Anything else, Pat, at this time. Not right this second. Okay. Darcy. Yeah, I'm just interested in knowing, um, if you have an opinion about, um, regular maintenance and whether. Uh, the fact that we've been deferring maintenance. Um, Has actually raised the cost of the potential repairs. Um, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Raise the cost. It perhaps has, um, quickened the need to make the repairs. Obviously if you take care of an old car. And change its oil every month or every three months through whenever it's going to run longer. It's the same thing with the building. If you're able to keep up with all of the repairs, it's always a good idea to change the car. Um, but then I think that's basically everything does wear out. Um, they are mechanical systems. Is there a, is there a formula, like a, that, you know, for municipal facilities for. You know, like the percentage of the total budget that should go into maintenance each year. Yes. That's above my pay grade. the top of my head. I'd have to, that is more a mechanical engineer question than a good type question. Thank you. Are there additional questions from the council? Okay, then given the hour I'm going to immediately flip to the attendees. If you wish to ask a question please raise your hand now. I'm not seeing any hands. Nobody seems to want to ask a question and we have 28 attendees and that's not counting all the people who are on just watching on Amherst media. All right I'm going to come back to the council then. Are there additional questions from the council? I'm going to figure out how to do it. Okay. Kathy please go ahead. You know I sent a list of questions in ahead to you and my understanding is we're going Lynn is going to take mine and some of the other councils and we'll post them but some of my questions were about build a little bit on what Pat was getting at that if we get accessibility on all the floors or their potential ways of reusing the boardroom which right now has some beautiful old furniture in it but is not used for a lot of community events. A bathroom up on the top floor that is hinged in a way that makes it hard to get into so trying to think of even with just accessibility reusing was one of my questions so I think you partially answered that but it was also about do are there any potential offsets to if we wanted to to move ahead with doing this rather than the larger project if if the Jones could apply for partially CPA money if they're in the historic building that some of the funding could come from that funding source in the larger project they're proposed to start tax credits and I realize at this point it's a complicated question to say how much but I'm assuming that renovating and dealing with a historic part of Jones not the new addition which the new roof wouldn't qualify for the same kinds of potential offsets could apply if we went this route is that correct on those offsets I again it's a historic tax consult we need to be a part of this process to determine what would qualify or not I can't I'm sorry but I can't answer that question about that's too there's too little information and again that's a specialty with the historic tax consultant when we work on historic buildings they're part of our team and they were not part of our team for the study okay okay that's fair you know so you know and I know the the computation is sort of partly what you're doing you know and as is you know special collections is a piece of it but Jones in the past has gotten CPA money to repair a roof because it's a historic building so there are some potential offsets to it so I just was looking at what would be the net cost to the general revenue fund although CPA is still tax dollars you know it's just coming out of another pot of money so thank you sure you have your hand up yeah um I one one just administrative thing is if we're looking for public comment that isn't questions we might want to phrase it that way because we asked when you phrased it you asked specifically for questions there might be public out there that don't have questions but would like to say something so just an administrative thing on that but I you know one thing I wanted to say one thing that strikes me about this study is that it costs a lot of money to just repair the building and that that repair doesn't come with at this point with that that number that we have any gains in sustainability other than that we have a 40 year old a 40 year newer system and one of our council goals is sustainability so I think as we move into this conversation we have to really look at what this gets us versus what our council council policies and all are because anything we would want to do to make this library more sustainable is going to be on top of whatever numbers that we were presented with this study is my understanding because the study isn't looking at adding insulation replacing single pane windows any of that stuff a better upgraded system that doesn't use fossil fuels that I believe some of the other things given my reading of the sustainability report does so I think we need to keep that in mind as we do what Steve was saying that value comparison and continue this conversation on Dorothy I'm actually going to skip you to give George and Lisa a chance and then come back to you George or Alyssa no it's George thank you thank you this can't be answered but I'm just wondering if you could give us a sense or maybe Austin would weigh in what the next steps are going to look like going forward and if there's a timeline that could be given to that I'm just wondering where we go next I think that's a question for Austin so where we go next so we were eager for this meeting because we want the council to be clear about what the repair costs would be the feasibility and design committee met jointly with the sustainability committee to review what fine gold Alexander was presenting for improvements in the plan having to do with sustainability and several questions were addressed back to fine gold Alexander which need to be clarified in terms of what they can do and are recommending about sustainability once we have that then we will be taking the next step and the next step is to really be in a position to present to the town what the revised plan would would be so that's kind of what the next steps are from the point of view of the library board of trustees Alyssa that was actually the perfect segue thank you George and Austin because that's what I wanted to make sure before we left this meeting tonight doesn't have to be this second but in a couple minutes is to be clear what the community's role is next and what the town council's role is next so Austin indicated that the sustainability committee which is a committee associated with the library it's not like some overall town sustainability committee gets some more answers back and feels like they have a more fully fleshed out picture then it's a question of when you say present to the community does that mean the community is supposed to watch one of your regular Jones library trustee meetings that typically haven't been filmed in the past doesn't mean you're planning to have a zoom webinar and how does it all fit in terms of you know beyond the pandemic right which is hugely an issue right now is the idea basically okay we we got that data and now we're just putting it on the shelf until we find out what's going on with the library grant or is there an ongoing conversation to be had between now and again and obviously again this is not a question for Allen but it a question for Austin in terms of what do I tell people on the street except you know we don't actually see people on the street anymore to say what's happening next and here's who you can ask more questions of and here's what the timeline looks like it are we just in a holding pattern or could you be a little more specific about that so thanks that's a good question we're not in a holding pattern what we've done is we've asked find old Alexander to refine the design that was presented to the MVLC the MVLC came back to us and it's approved the you know put it put it it's stamp of approval so to speak on the proposal we're number two on the wait list it said we needed to make one significant change and that was to move the large meeting room that occasion some rethinking of the arrangements of elements in the plan and final go like Alexander's been working on that and then we've asked them to think about the sustainability piece how could we make the library even more sustainable than it would have been under the prior plan and so we're waiting for them to come back to us now and say well this is this is what the whole package looks like there may be things that we wanted to do in the building that we're gonna have to sacrifice because of the sustainability piece that we are trying to achieve Finkle Alexander is a pretty well known and pretty expert in working with historic buildings but they're also really well known about working on sustainability and in fact the Jones Library proposal has already attracted attention around the state for our interest in sustainability so once we have all that then that'll be presented to the feasibility and design committee and then the feasibility and design committee will make recommendations and at that point will be laying out a process of how we're going to go forward from that point on with Dorothy you have your hand up yes two-part question before plans are finalized I think you need to add the adjustments for COVID-19 which we hear may not be going away right away which would mean some rethinking of space use in terms of program use because we've we keep adding things as we go on but I think that not to have that in this plan would not would be a bad idea but my short-term question is I read Paul's email about the damage in the special collections which sounds extensive and that's right now and there's tarps and the ceiling the HVAC system is dripping so that can't wait for whatever this process is and so my question is what can you do to try to save the special collections that's a very good question and I'm gonna ask Sharon to answer it but I do want to just say as you all know what we're worried about is a cascade of things so what we're worried about is what begins with yet another leak in special collections will begin to trigger or cascade into other failings in the mechanical electrical and plumbing in the in the library and that's why what we got from Coon Riddle looked at two different options right one was you know kind of what could be done first and the other was what needed to be done first Sharon do you want to say something about the special collections problem sure literally as of between 430 and 5 it was still being worked on so you know I don't even know what the magnitude of the damage is quite yet and so we will fix it and regarding how much it will cost and where we get that money from so a year ago during the JCPC process we had asked the town for money for these kinds of issues you know just in case and and so we were told that when the just in case emergency happens then come back and ask for it so if it's a large enough repair issue that we're dealing with then we'll come to town council and ask for money to get it repaired and and Cindy our curator will work on how to best save the documents that have been damaged Alex you have your hand up yeah I just want to add thanks Sharon I want to add that so we had this exact same issue last August so every time we're running the air conditioning units again because our systems are at end of life and this this is our concern and this is why the MEP systems are probably one of our highest priorities and I'll repeat what I repeated last year at JCPC is that we have an end of life system there's one guy who knows how to work on our system we have to wait till the one guy who knows our system can come out and work on it so last year we had to wait a week before this person was available so this has become a recurring problem and to to to counselor Pam's question we do fix it every year we do as much as we can to protect things but when your systems are at end of life I mean we keep repairing them I mean they're just they need they need to be replaced so I'm going to quickly flip back over to the attendees and ask if there are any questions please raise your hand I see none are there any final comments or questions yes Kathy Kathy you need to unmute I do indeed need to unmute as I've been listening to the additional information we're getting out of the sustainability committee and I saw some estimates of those systems will you be putting them together with a revised total cost of the project and you mentioned that in the the larger I'm talking about the larger project right now and will you to the extent you have to you use the word sacrifice something else you wanted to do I'm assuming you you have to do the things you told the granting authority as I understand it so I don't know where you've got the flexibility but I think it would be very helpful as you present these so I'm not asking you to do it now to present those pieces because I think some of what we're looking for is that we didn't ask Alen and her team to look at different systems but we've got an opportunity to say you had an original cost for your internal systems and now you have a revised cost how much did that add so we can do oh that might add that much if we just did renovate but at least it gives us if you want a building that is more sustainable in terms of fuel so I think just following the pieces to a new total even if it's the same total and one of the worries I've had about the total aside from the town's ability to finance it is that that total was originally priced out assuming on a 2019 construction so if we're at 2022 you know if you get a grant extension so just walking all of us through that so there's a full can be a full public dialogue not just with the council but with the broader residents on what are we talking about sure I think that's exactly right and we're certainly doing that we've asked find gold Alexander for exactly for that information but again I want to remind myself and maybe others that what we're doing is you're trying to think about the program that the library needs the services that the library needs to provide so that's where we began and that's where we're going to come back to at the end what is it that the town wants our library to do and we've designed a process and work through a process in which the program led the design and a land may not want to opine on this but typically that's what architects say you should do you should begin with the program and let the program lead the design that's what we've done and when we're we have more time as I said earlier we're happy to review right from the beginning how we got to the point where we believe an expanded and renovated Jones library is the library that the town should choose because of the services that the library needs to provide and we're going to be able to tell you exactly what the costs are and for sustainability we'll tell you exactly what the cost of moving to the level of sustainability that we are trying to move in which would make the Jones library a model of sustainability for the town thank you you know I do appreciate that the program led to the design and it's just when I was running for council one of the things that struck me is that we rarely think about the whole town we think about one big part so you're the library trustees it makes sense that you focus on the library and some people are asking me we're about to hopefully build a new school so where should the big community room be and and you know a question of if you look across all our public space so it's those kinds of questions Austin on the library trustees under one roof and others have asked me so I I think that is the right way to approach it and so there just are going to be questions on that vision in terms of what else we need to do in the town so this isn't in isolation sure I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't want to trade my place on the library board for a place on the town council so thank you for reminding me of my privilege so thank you first and foremost to the library trustees for taking on the responsibility of answering this critical question it's a question that all of us have needed the answer to in today's dollars and with the implications that have been presented. Elan thank you very much for your study and with that we're going to say this is just the beginning of our discussion with the library we will be back as we have more information and at that point we will engage the council and library trustees and the public once again so going to adjourn this meeting you need to adjourn the trustees and then we will be turning around and in three minutes reconvening for our hearing so yes go ahead did you want me to adjourn the trustees first please okay is there a motion to adjourn this meaning of the Jones library board of trustees is there a second okay Robert Pam are you in favor of adjourning yes Alex the favor you in favor of adjourning yes Lee Edwards are you in favor of adjourning Lee yourself Lee is saying she is way to go Lee Tammy are you in favor of adjourning yes Chris Hoffman are you in favor of adjourning yes and Austin said if we are adjourned thank you very much those just in the town council we don't even have a motion they're so anxious to adjourn just let me adjourn the meeting so we will adjourn and reconvene at 7 o'clock thanks counselors we can stay right here we're going to use the same webinar for the that makes it more likely I'll be here on time