 Thank you. I mean, it's the end of the day, so I think people are ready to hit the dance floor again. But luckily, we're joined by Bitpanda's CEO and founder, Eric, to lead us off in style. For those who don't know, Bitpanda, as they said, is Austria's first unicorn and crypto wallet trading platform. So, Eric, let's just get started by talking a little bit about the last year, 18 months in COVID. Obviously, an incredibly difficult time, but as I understand, a big moment for growth for Bitpanda. That was the most efficient time of the company. You couldn't waste time at conferences. I mean, I sit in front of the computer every day, which is not very much of a hassle for me because I used to be like a gamer and son, so I'm used to sitting for a computer 40 hours a day, voluntarily. And now I do this for work, so, yeah, no, that was fine. And then also, we did series A, B and C in that time, and we did everything virtually. And that saved so much time. That was so efficient. That's really good. And the number of users, I think last time, I saw something like 3 million, but do you remember the growth? Yeah, the growth is really, really has been phenomenal in the last one and a half years. More and more people sitting at home, they are also. And then, of course, the low interest rates from the national banks across the world are also helping, of course, the people look more into their finances. So it was a mixture of everything, of course, yeah. And you mentioned there the three fundraising rounds. So Seamless, this is about investment and investment barriers. I'm curious about your thoughts on the investment space in crypto in Europe. I read just now the data is something like the U.S. has seen 10 billion invested in crypto D5 projects in the U.S., and it's something like two in Europe, which is a massive boost from previous years, but still something like a quarter. How do you see the investment space here for European crypto startups? So I think this is not something where you say in the crypto space or in the investment space. So we're also right now going, we come from being a crypto company and we're now becoming an investment platform for everybody, so with stocks and factual stocks and everything. But this is a general European problem. So first of all, in Europe, you do not have bigger VC funds, very, very little. All the money usually from Europe comes from the UK. But inside, like from the EU, there's very, very little VCs that have big pockets to do bigger rounds. There's a lot of seed investment going on, maybe serious A investment going on, but it is usually historically a problem from the political side. So in most countries, pension funds, for example, that are the biggest, let's say, LPs for VCs are not allowed to go into risk or like equity or venture capital. And that is a huge problem. So you see, for example, our investors, it's all U.S. money flowing in. And what usually happens is you see a trend in the U.S. And then, like two years later, you see the stuff in Europe, but it's definitely a hot market right now for international VCs. So things are warming up, you see? Things are not warming up, it's already getting much, much warmer. So from our perspective, Europe in the FinTech space has a huge potential and it's actually further than the potential stage. So all the international VCs have seen this and they're moving in a lot of money and there's so much money in the market right now, it's also a bit crazy. What about those early days, 2016, 2015, did people think you were crazy on that seed roadshow that you did? We didn't really do a roadshow. It was... The speed invest, yeah, they... Yeah, no, but yeah, it was... We founded the company in 2014. And then in 2016, we became profitable. So we've been profitable every year since then, which is also quite rare for FinTech. But we did like a very small round just to get liquidity. So we were profitable, but we got so much growth at this stage. Compared to today, it's nothing, but at this stage, it was overwhelming. We did more working capital on a daily basis and then we did like a very, very small round from people we know across Europe, across Vienna. And then maybe there was one investment banker from New York, but it was like an angel roundish thing, you know? How do you think people's understanding of crypto is today? So we've seen NFTs, DeFi. I mean, it's still in the very early stages, right? Even for investors. NFTs and DeFi is very early stage, yes. Crypto is not so much early stage, I think, in general. And so more and more countries are moving in. Countries, more and more companies are moving in. And you now see that other FinTechs, that, for example, have a neobank or payment companies or traditional banks, they see, OK, we also have to go into crypto because from traditional banks, we see how much money is flowing out of our system into crypto companies or into the crypto space. Our customers need that, want that. And this is why, for example, we decided to do the White Label solution where we now offer our FinTechs and banks pretty much everything we have. So you can have the whole Bitpanda functionality for fractional stocks for crypto. Everything we have, they can offer to their customers. So and I think this is the next stage of the evolution where you become, let's say, more than infrastructure provider when you're already established. So we see our app, for example, as our own, like we're the biggest customer for our own tech stack. And this is how we see it. And you don't have to be overprotective with your brand and everything. And finance is not like one brand will rule it all. It's not a network effect like Facebook or Google or something like this. And so this is the B2B model that you've rolled out fairly recently. Talk about, do you have any banks as clients? And how many banks do you expect to have in the next five years, let's say, using that? Which clients? Banks. Yes. So we announced that we're doing this in early summer this year. And since then, many are in the onboarding process. So Lydia is the first bigger one with, in France, five and a half million customers. They started last week. So they're offering now stocks encrypted to their customers. Over the next month, I think, like in Q1, there will be a few more fintechs. And then on Q4, I expect the first more traditional banks. So we have a huge lineup and already signed contracts in there now in the development phase, I would say. So that would be pretty extraordinary. I mean, banks have been famously reticent with trading cryptos, some of the biggest banks, JPMorgan, et cetera, still saying that trading Bitcoin for their clients is touchy. So you're seeing in Europe that banks are responding to this and they are wanting to offer, like traditional banks, not the fintechs. Absolutely. Traditional banks are offering this when they have a proper banking app. Because then they can integrate it. And it's like a toolbox. So you can say, OK, I want this feature. I want that feature. They can try things out. And then mostly what they are doing is they build a few, let's say, user interfaces. It's quite early done. And the rest is done with the API, which is the integration is super fast. So it's just a few months and then some testing. And then they're good to go. So yeah, they are also doing it. But their roadmap is usually very packed. So they need a few months more. So they are coming. They just need to be with the companies. They are coming. We already have some aligned. And so on the B2B side, do you expect this to be the major part of your revenue in the years to come? I mean, I imagine that the deals that you're signing, that could supersede the consumer side, right, in course. Excuse me, that was? It could be bigger than the consumer side of business. That is the consumer side. Because it's like a B2B2C model. Sure, like the pure consumer side and then the B2B. We also have a real institutional offering. We just had it very passively over the past, let's say, 12 months, our exchange. But we just hired great people from JPMorgan joining us. We have our exchange, so it's called Bitpana Pro, has now since last month a new CEO, or like a CEO, actually, the first time. And they are rebamping it. So next year, we were relaunching pretty much our exchange. And then there we will have an exclusive offering for institutional customers and professionals. OK, so what is it about crypto that excites you personally? Why is it interesting? I mean, I'm in this for quite a long time. Originally. I just like everything digital. I just like when things, there's no need really to make it so complicated with bank transfers and everything. And everything will be more digitized. And for example, what we saw with crypto, all the good things, we said, you know what? If the stock market would be invented today, it would look more like the crypto market than the actual stock market. Why is there off hours? Why is there a weekend? Why can't you just have a fraction of a stock? So we said, let's try to bring all the good attributes of crypto and bring it into the traditional world as well. And then it doesn't matter which asset class you have. And this is why, for example, with our Visa card, you can now here at the bar or somewhere, you can just use a Visa card and you can spend whatever you want. If you want to pay with Tesla stocks, pay with Tesla stocks. If you want to pay with crypto, pay with crypto. If you want to pay with Euro, pay with Euro. So everything is treated equally. And therefore, I think this is more the future. So everything that can be digitized will be digitized. And so our asset class is everything that has value. Let me ask you a question that the endpoint of Bitcoin in theory is that volatility will come down as the end of the process comes in terms of mining. Isn't volatility the core of the business model? And what does Bitpanda look like when the volatility goes down? I mean, how do you mitigate that? So you have already seen over the past years that the volatility went down. The more mature the whole market gets, the more money flows in. And then you just, everything is not like, you don't have these 20% ups and downs days anymore. A 20% day would be like a Black Swan event today. And therefore, volatility will probably be always higher because you have so many different projects. You're also lining up every day. There are new projects coming up. And the market cap is just a different thing there. But I expect much higher volatility also in the long term compared to stocks. On other assets? Yeah, compared, for example, to gold or something. I mean, gold, for example, has also a much lower volatility than stocks. And crypto will always have a higher volatility than stocks, for example, in my opinion. Could be wrong. Yeah, but it will get, you know, there will be less volatility. And that's part of your plan as well. Yeah, but this is completely fine because people just need to find the right strategy for themselves to invest in on the long run. You can have, let's say, 80% long-term investments, maybe savings plans, and then you have a strategy. And you keep that strategy. You go with it for three or five years, at least, or 10 years. And then the rest you can play around with. And the more you try things out, you will find the right asset classes for you. Nobody else can tell you that. No bank advisor, especially no bank advisor, can do this because they're just selling their own stuff. But yeah, this is education. And we don't learn this at school, so it's the task of also platforms like us to, we have our BitPen Academy to create good content and explain the world of finance and how everything works. And it's not rocket science, you know? So again, the panel is called investment barriers. And the other investors other than VCs are obviously your consumers invested in this. There's some people who will be very reticent to use the app and to invest in crypto. Some will say, we've missed it, it's too late. And others will say, you know, this is scary. This is very volatile, as we've discussed. What do you say to those investors? What's the general pitch? The whole thing of, I miss crypto. I hear this every year, since I'm in, every year. So, and you can also say this to stocks. We now have all-time highs around, all-time highs for stocks. Now you can say the same thing there. So, but people tend to say more, okay, it's on Bitcoin, I missed it, you know? But not for stocks, why is that? You can't predict that. So, it looks like, or for me, it looks like why would it go down now? Or why would this be the peak, you know? So, therefore, I'm a long-term investor in stocks and in crypto because I, and also, for example, the Bitcoin market cap is like one-tenth of gold. And seriously, why would you invest in gold in the digital age? There's, let's say for me, Bitcoin is way superior as a store of value than gold. Does it make you uncomfortable, though, that there's people like Elon Musk who tweet and the price of these crypto assets just spiral up and down? There is no oversight of that. Or actually, you could regulate people tweeting but obviously not of the market itself. I mean, what do you think about that? When he tweets, the Tesla stock goes also up. It's not a crypto exclusive thing. Maybe slightly less, yeah. Yeah, so therefore, this is fine. And also the first time someone bigger goes in then there is some market movement. If he does this, let's say more often, you see less movement in there because people get used to this stuff, so on. So, we had this over the past years with many different events and then there is like an article misinterpreting the China stuff. For example, every year or every second year, you see this China banned crypto, which is complete bullshit. They just extend something that they have the regulation for since 2017 or something or even earlier. They're just extending it. And I always see the headline, it's forbidden now. No, it's the same thing that has been there for years. So, yeah. And these things, let's say, slowly get less impact. In terms of investment barriers, is the other remaining barrier also gender? I mean, what percentage of men, women do you have on Big Panda, for example? Yeah, this is something we definitely want to tackle in the next one or two years. We will start tackling this next year. How do you tackle? It's like content educational part. It is a huge, so like it's a mixture of tech and finance. And I don't know why, but historically, this is a very male-heavy area. And it shouldn't be the case, why? There's no reason for this. So we will try to bring financials, more, let's say, bring more women in there, yeah. Have you, so what else? I think it needs role models in that regard. Because the whole industry is so male-heavy, it needs some role models. Do you share the gender breakdown in the app today? No, but it's heavily... If I would have to guess, it's probably around like three quarters or maybe 80, 20 or something, so it's very male-heavy. Yeah, it is, it is. The other question about skeptical investors is also on geography. So obviously you're in various markets, I think Spain, Italy, Austria, the Dark Region. Now I think you have some new news about your next geography. Feel free to talk a little bit about that. And also, so far, what the most challenging geography has been? Yeah, so we're... I mean, our home market, of course, was Austria. This is where we grew up and everybody knows us there, let's say. But we now started to enter France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, very new, and we tried it out a little bit. We now have experience, and then next year we're gonna move in quite fast or quite aggressively. And also, for now, this is also news. So we're going to the Nordics, and so now Denmark is the first country, so you can now sign up from Denmark. And then the other Nordic countries will follow in the next quarters. So Q1, Q2 next year. But yeah, so we're now starting with Denmark and also they are improved user experience. So what we always do is, I think we're best in class when it comes in Europe, when it comes to regulation and all these license and stuff. And this is also good for the user experience because you won't have any problems with banks and so on. As a private user, and we will add more payment services and make it more individual, let's say, for each country. So what do you have, Denmark? Denmark is the first. We have a Danish supporter, all your PR, I'm not sure. What's been the most challenging geography so far, though? Who have been the most skeptical investors? We talked before about that you have very little VC money in Europe, right? And you also have the problem that in Europe, compared to the US, you have very, very few people, private people, investing themselves. Because we've never been taught, and for example, when I'm German and I live in Austria for 30 years and people there are completely about there, what is it like, savings accounts. You don't get any interest, you lose money there. But the other stuff is very, very new to them. So you really have to educate because we don't have, let's say, something like a 401k plan. You don't have something, because in the US, pretty much everybody is involved in the stock market because you have a small part of your pension plan every month goes into the stock market. So naturally, already from the beginning, you are involved in the financial markets. And here, this is like a very, very complicated thing. It's not very complicated, but we were told it's very complicated. Leave it to professionals. Yeah, so, and therefore, for example, Spain also is a country that is very much on saving, you know, everything like, oh, keep it on the bank, keep it on the bank. Spain's the most. Yeah, but you know how the inflation is going, it's moving right now, and so therefore, people have to, and now we have to problem in Europe that people have to stock from scratch. Never did this before, and so with our product, with our stocks product, we're still in beta now, but at the beginning of next year, we will roll it out big. We will educate and try things out, make it very, very simple and understand so you can't make too many mistakes and then have like a long-term plan, like savings plan, and then get more people into the investing space. Including the Spanish. We've got about five minutes left. I want to talk a little bit more about you as a founder versus just Crypto and the business. I'm interested in perhaps the peak and trough of the last six years of your life as a founder. What has been the moment that most stands out in terms of what felt most successful or most memorable, and perhaps also the biggest challenge of being you? Honestly, I don't know what the biggest success, it's like a constant flow. It's not like you wake up next day and then like everything change. It's also when you, for example, when you announce a fundraising and then you're like a billion company and then the last time was, now we're 4.1 billion euros dollar worth. It's not like, because everybody thinks like you're waking up and then everything changes. This is the same question if you would ask like, oh, you have your birthday today, how do you feel? Yeah, the same like yesterday. Because it's like a constant flow. It's not like you were in the coma for a year and then the world has changed. So as a founder, it's a constant thing. You see everything transparent on the table. So therefore it's not like this one big event that really like shocked you. But of course, what happened afterwards of these big fundraising, you see that the company is seen differently. By partners, by banks, by politicians. And you get so much more talent. You get a completely different also, different people that come from tech companies that come from Silicon Valley that wanna work for you. So that changed a lot, that changed a lot, yeah. And then the most challenging thing perhaps of on a personal level of being a founder. I mean, as I said, you're valued at nearly a billion dollars on paper at least on a personal level. I guess that also changes the way people see you and maybe treat you and the way you live your, perhaps the way you live your day to day life. I mean, it's not, it's a first world problem. Don't get me wrong. But it can't have. So, the biggest changes also the valuation of the company happened during COVID. Yeah. And my life didn't change during COVID because I'm sitting in front of the computer all day, every day. The only thing that changed was I have a much more expensive computer. But like, yeah, so I'm also, when I have free time, I'm gaming and stuff. So there were only a few months. Now we have another lockdown in Austria. There were only let's say three months where I was a bit more out. But the rest, I'm literally just in front of the computer every day. So I don't know what's coming up in the future after COVID, but right now nothing really changed. Life's good for Eric. Yeah. I just need proper internet. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for talking to us. And I look forward to continuing the conversation again next time. Thank you very much.