 Today I have the distinct pleasure of interviewing Pat Bailey. Hello Doug, how you doing? Let's just start right at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about your growing up and your family, that kind of thing. So yes, I was born in Sacramento, California, and I grew up actually mostly in Los Angeles. My family was originally from New York area. My dad was born in Brooklyn. My mom in Montana, and then she moved over into New York. So they were very East Coast folks, and I was kind of their wild child, California child. I have a 16 year older than me sister, and I'll tell you up front, I'm 62, but I can never tell her age, because she gets really upset about that, but she can do them now. So it was funny because when I grew up, I went to Catholic school, and the thought was that she was my mom. She would look like a teen pregnancy. So my sister and I weren't very close when we were growing up. Later in life we got much closer with that. I was a tomboy, kind of from day one. I played a lot of sports. It was always jeans, I hated the skirts and all that kind of stuff. And then as I moved along, I got older and discovered more about myself. But I went to Catholic school for 12 years. So I learned about discipline, service, fear, uniforms, all that kind of stuff, all the basics that you need for the community. But I loved the education. I learned a lot about those were kind of the good old days in Catholic school. Yes, the ruler was alive and well, and so there was some masochism that came in at that point. But I also learned about service to the community, working and building together and being part of that community. And to do good and to think about what you're doing with some ethics and values. Tell us about your coming out. That's actually a very interesting piece. Right. Well, it was interesting because when I was in high school, I met a woman and we were high school partners together. And we ran around and we got more involved. But we had that good Catholic ethic that you weren't supposed to be doing any kind of sex, much less same sex. We didn't even have a word for it. And I can remember that I used to sneak out. This was probably when I was about 14 or 15. And I would ride my bicycle about eight miles to her house after my mom fell asleep. My mom was an alcoholic, would drink, pass out. She wouldn't know I was gone. I'd spend the night at my girlfriend's house. Her parents didn't know we were there. And then I'd ride my bicycle back home, you know, in the morning. So it was that wonderful essence of trying to be out and be creative without knowing what the word was for years. We kept having this imbalance, though. It was like, I'd say no, it was wrong. We shouldn't do this. Or she would say no, it's wrong. So we actually, if I really had to count the number of times we really hit that middle ground, where we actually discovered ourselves in our body, it was not very many times. But it was kind of my first awareness. And I identified as bisexual for a long time because it was about a year after that that I had my first relationship with a guy. And that kind of went on longer until I was about 27. And my relationships with men and women, and I realized about 27 that I was really much more interested in women. And so I identified as lesbian then and dyke. Those terms kind of came out. In Los Angeles there was a really strong sports community. A lot of my coaches were lesbians. And so I had lots of models of how to live that life. And then everything went along kind of fine until I got into my early 40s and discovered that some of the women I had been with transitioned and became men. And so I couldn't call myself a lesbian in good faith if I honored their transition. So at that point there wasn't, you know, omnisexual or, so I called it bisexual light is what I called it. Because I was interested in trans guys and those relationships were there. And now I just consider myself dyke, genderqueer, and queer. How did you come to join the Air Force? Well career-wise, when I got out of high school, I was the first in my family to go to college. That wasn't something my family did. My dad was a post office worker and my mom was a secretary. My sister was a mom. She went to a couple of years of college but didn't graduate. And I became a PE teacher. That was what I studied. I'm the stereotype. I did track and field, softball, you know, so I was in Lesbian Mecca from day one of my life just by doing that. And so when I got out through college and I finished my degree, I was teaching and I was at Kanoka Park High School which is in LA area. And some of my students actually got into the first women's class at the Air Force Academy. And they came back and they go, they've got teams and they need women coaches. They don't have any because the women hadn't been there before and they hadn't thought about staffing and putting women coaches there. So I decided, hey, that'd be cool. I'd love to teach at college rather than high school. So I went to the Air Force recruiter and I said, this is what I want to do. And he goes, well, we don't have that job but we've got this other really great job over here. But it's not an officer, it's an enlisted. So I had a degree already. And what was happening for me in that moment when I was living in Los Angeles was I was on a softball team and anybody who plays on, you know, community softball teams knows that when a couple breaks up on a team you have to form another team. And then there's a whole league that forms of everybody's breakup with all that. And I was having a very dramatic breakup with that point with my partner. And so I always termed it that what I was doing was joining the foreign region and kind of like that. So I joined the military and I did a lot of training there so I was an educator there. But they didn't quite see fit for me to kind of move into the education that I wanted to which was that they catabased and things like that. But it was fun and basic training because the day I walked in, my technical instructors I looked at them and they were two cute hot twin red heads. And I went, oh yes. A little gaydar went off. Went off, they looked at me and kind of went, you know, wow, this looks like a little baby dyke. And so they ended up making me the dorm chief and I graduated from basic training. Went, immediately got selected for officer training because I had all the requirements. And one night, my two drill instructors said, let's go out for a drink. I went, okay, that sounds good. You know, we were connecting up. I didn't know too many people in San Antonio. And we ended up going to a lesbian bar and they're all nervous. They're going like, well, if you don't like this place, you know, we can leave right away. We know about and we hang out. And I walk in and we get to the bar and I said, oh, I've been here before and they go, why didn't you tell us? And this was long before Don't Ask, Don't Tell. This is when the witch hunts were around and people got kicked out quite frequently and doing those kind of things. But what they had done is they had actually brought women who were retired and still active duty, high ranking officers who were also lesbians who sat down and talked to me about how to survive in the military and how to survive in the doors. And it was an incredible gift that they gave me. And so I was out and queer in the military in my own way which, it was funny, because I went to a couple of Imsils during my career but nobody ever knew I was there. You know, it was registering under another name, never in the cameras, the yellow badges and things like that. But I felt like I had to kind of pay my whole debt back to them by being out and supporting other folks who weren't out. It was three times when I was in the military. The first time was my first assignment playing softball but I was the only officer on the team and they tend to bring the enlisted folks in the security would question them and that kind of gets into the next part of the story we can talk about a little bit which is more how I got involved in the leather community but I knew a lot of the leathermen that lived in the community so I started doing matchmaking.com like softball players and they would say go have coffee and then when the investigators would come in and say no I've been out with Joe so I kept the pressure off the team a little bit. I went to Alaska and I was up in Alaska for a year which has been fun this year with Saraw coming from Alaska and I was under investigation there and it got dropped and then later in my career I was under investigation based on my security clearance. I was with a woman at the time who was the pastor of a metropolitan community church MCC and my security clearance was such that I had to disclose who I lived with so I put that on there and they came to me in the security clearance and said well we understand the person you live with runs a lesbian church or a gay church and I said well I think the way I practice my religion is not subject to a security investigation now this is before a lot of the being out and all that kind of thing happened because a year before on coming out day I called up the Pentagon to change my religious affiliation it said Catholic when I came into the military and I'm going I'm tired of that I'm a reformed Catholic and I just don't want to go back there at all so I had her change it to MCC on national account coming out of day and she spent all day going is that a Buddhist religion or is that you know but on my doc tags and I wore them it says MCC on it and so again those little pushes of being out a bit with all that so that investigation they said well we're not asking about that we're asking if you're a lesbian and I said I wouldn't answer it before again about two and a half three years before Don't Ask Don't Tell came out and they said we have to we went back and forth and that started a three year dance where they didn't take my clearance away but they didn't grant my clearance either so one of the things with a military career is you have certain points you have to hit and if you don't you don't get promoted by gay brothers in the military is that those that were HIV and were caught for being gay didn't get promoted in 19 years and got nothing for their service no retirement, no benefits nothing that and so it was a truly a a concern of mine that I had missed that window when I needed to be a commander so I got another assignment ended up in a Navy position one day in a little envelope came my clearance and restored and it was good but about that same time Clinton had announced Don't Ask Don't Tell and on the day he announced that I decided it was time to retire and I had 15 years in which usually you don't get benefits but it was right after Desert Storm when they were drawing down the forces so I got a full retirement and I was able to go ahead and get all my benefits with a little bit less money and when I went to the 10 year anniversary at Hofstra University to speak on Don't Ask Don't Tell so for 10 members on the panel I was the only one who could wear my medals because I was the only one who had gotten out honorably and got a pension and doing that so I every month when I get my pension check that is my, I did it I'm standing up for those folks who met me in the bar you know, 20 years ago fantastic well how were you introduced to the Kink community that's probably one of those I remember since I was 10 or 12 I realized those kind of things I knew it, I mean those were the kind of fantasies I can remember playing with the guys in the neighborhood and I would tie them up or they would tie me up it would be Cat Boys and Indians is what we called it those kind of things and you know it was fun and playful when I got in the military I actually the woman I met basic training that's another story we kind of were in the same dorm together and there were 30 women sleeping in the other room and we'd be in the day room making out and kissing and all that so I didn't you know my blood pounding in my ears knowing that somebody was going to walk in and catch us but it was just so hot I just had to do it and I got lucky, it made me caught as I got into my career I found out that the job was very stressful and I was in charge all day as an officer and I came home just exhausted and I just went, you know I just need to let go and not be in charge you know, yeah that's cool and so it kind of started with that and about that time my first assignment was in Phoenix, Arizona and I was at Luke Air Force Base and we she was working with a guy in the office she was a travel agent and he you know he was this really great guy he ran him over for dinner a few times got to know him a little bit and he was a member of the Phoenix Levi and Leather Club was a men's club there that is no longer in existence had about 24 or 25 members and he said why don't you come on down and have a drink and have a beer with us and so we found the men's leather community that way and found out there was a lore and a history it was hot and about 11 o'clock all the guys would go in the back room and we'd go, night, catch you later guys you know, thanks very much and like we'd go home and say, do you want to try that that was kind of cool, did you see what that guy was doing I kind of explored that way and we had parted ways with that in terms of her being my partner but my interest was definitely cued up and I was starting to look around to find that and there's only about three of those guys that are still alive now most of them were, this was the 78, 79 time period most of them were hit by HIV and AIDS and got to march in the San Francisco parade with them one year because it is the only club I've ever pledged for because they were starting to say well you hang around, you're cool you kind of look like a neat leather person and they kind of taught me those traditions and we did a lot of community fundraising when people were sick you go help somebody when they had a motorcycle accident so that, again, that community service piece keeps coming through with that and I know that as we lost them that was part of the tradition that I bring forward too so again, service, community helping others and doing that was really how I got started and it took me a while to find the women's leather community and when I did, I think I found them in San Francisco I think I went to Folsom Street or some of them and the women scared me they had blood and they were cutting and they were yelling and screaming and punching and the men's leather community was not exactly of that it was all about sucking, fucking and having a good time and you know a little bit of pain and stuff like that but it was more the erotic hot and heavy kind of stuff so it took me a little while to kind of get adjusted to the women's community and I think somewhere in my past Sharon and I had crossed paths because as I started to move up to be a title holder and all that I went up to Seattle and that was one of the parties I went to going oh my god, what are you people doing up here they're putting up sheets and tarps and there's blood splattering on the walls and all this kind of stuff and although I didn't meet Sharon at that point I had a great time and it's expanded and grown since then What sort of expansions and growths have you seen? Well for me in terms of my growth you know is that never say never it's like oh all I want to do is a little slap and tickle and a little bondage and then I want to do this and then I want to do needles and let's check out this blood stuff and all of that but for me what I learned from those men in Phoenix was really about that community service I've seen on my Icaria seven pins that's on a leather panel that I wear when I get into kind of formal dress and it's the Kinky County Fair in Phoenix, Arizona in 1979 80 somewhere around there and that was what they did they brought the whole community together I learned that kink and drag and rodeo and all those parts and segments of what we consider the other parts of the community we don't hang with in a place like Phoenix you've got to work together so I was able to cross back and forth all of those lines and so I know that when I did my speech when I ran for Emzel I was going to die in the house and say hey guys fags in the house say hey and all that kind of stuff that came from a drag queen up in Alameda that was the way she'd always start her shows and she's still in the community and we catch up once in a while but that's the connections that I've seen and so now if anybody knows Lady Sharon she's my lady you know all kinds of blood and pain and things like that so I'm definitely a masochist I'm a boy, I love service I'm not a slave and I love to excel and do community stuff so I don't know there's a community hanky I have to make one of those here's your opportunity it's clear oh okay miss that so there's a clear hanky that I did not know about service there we go well please do a man at one time please tell us about that I was, it's kind of funny because I've actually been married three times the first time I had missed that right after high school everybody goes off and gets married and that didn't interest me at all graduate from college everybody gets married after that gets settled in, missed that and I got my master's so I had a master's degree in physical education and a pre-med degree when I got out of college and I met a guy and he was black and we just really had a good time together we became very good friends very quickly and I had grown up in the 60's we had watched a lot of the TV and all the civil rights movement catheters definitely stood up for a lot of the freedom writers and all that kind of thing so my media the way that looked and the way my community responded was always about this isn't right, segregation is wrong you should change that you should move forward and then I brought a black man home for dinner one night suddenly that theory kind of went out the window I also was in school at the time Vatican II which is when the Catholic Church turned every rule in the world upside down you can now meet on Friday you know they got rid of limbo they did all this stuff and if there's any Catholics in the audience I know you're going like oh yeah I don't know it was like everything I had been taught had been kind of turned upside down and it kind of drew us together because he was a military brat and he had traveled around with his family all over Europe so he also had an experience the US experience of being black in the United States and as a result we ended up getting married my sister did not come to the wedding and it caused lots of issues in my family I was kind of a side note my dad had died when I was 13 and again in my teens I kind of laughed about this because my mom was older when she had me and I'm going into adolescence my mom is going into menopause so the only way a respectable Catholic man could get out was to die and literally it was a crazy wild household with an alcoholic mother who was also rageaholic taught me my rageaholic kind of behavior and it was just I was out all the time and kind of running I was lucky I got involved a little bit with drugs and things like that it didn't destroy my life because I was always that person who wanted to go out and do more so again one of those lucky survivors who didn't quite get that but basically so that was my first marriage didn't last very long and the reason that we broke up is because I didn't learn about this open relationship kind of stuff so we both cheated but we cheated on the same moment I thought it was funny so I was still bisexual in those days and so it was basically kind of a moment to go like okay and so we broke up and he's still in contact we still talk with him my second marriage was the man that took me into the leather community who I kind of consider my leather daddy although he doesn't kind of do that role kind of position but he had about a hepatitis and was really sick and needed some help and didn't have insurance I'm in the military they're bugging me about my cousin is coming to town and he's going I'm in a relationship you know and trying to dance around that and be obvious I married him and all that happened the only problem when we were in Phoenix is I would take him out to the base and it was an air base and he would go into the back bar and the German pilots were back there he has a perchance for German pilots so I had to keep dragging him out so he didn't like blow the cover on that we ended up getting divorced when my partner at the time had my son, Josh, who's now 25 and then she was a mother, I was the the other parent and he's not real aware of that of that relationship because she got cancer six months after he was born and has had major health things but came back, she's fine she's got another couple of kids but at the same moment that she was getting ready to have him Bob, my leather daddy his partner, his love of his life and from HIV and so literally two weeks before my son was born, I was going on a flight to bury his partner and I had the birth of a son and we kind of looked at each other and we went, wow and we lived in Texas and there's a lot of community property there so on a purely financial part it was like, alright, we gotta break up for that, but again we stay very very close and we're together with that then I've gotten commitment with a couple of other partners that I've gone through so I actually on the day don't ask, don't tell Defense Marry Jack fell I asked Sharon to marry me and she said yes and so we're getting married in September and it's really exciting because it's the first time I'll be able to marry a woman and love of my life fantastic so here's the comment she made about being pianches you building on all of this you have very interesting professional work tell us a bit about your professional work today I'm a professional gay that's what I do my job, I'm director of training and I'm an equal workplace advocate and it's a 501c3 that works with corporations to create inclusive environments for LGBT employees around the world climate and those kind of things so my job is to go out and tell corporations to be nice and clear and it's interesting because I can be very out, my job is really to be the Google events, learning what's happening help to train individuals but when I won the Creating Change Leather Leadership Award from the task force I had to do that come out moment I had to go tell my boss look I'm getting this award, we're working with corporations I've already planned to do some training from my day job there if you want me to back out of that I will and also realize that there's an honorarium that honorarium is not coming to my day job that's about the leather community it took them a little bit they actually had to have a couple meetings about it so that leather phobia in the workplace even in an LGBT organization is still very much there it went fine, it went great but I've actually had one company talk to me who's deep in the south I've never had these discussions before they Googled me and found me and they said we don't have a problem with it but we're not sure we'll be able to bring you in for training because our media will pick it up and our local radios will do that I'm still waiting on that they're still having that discussion they haven't gotten back with me but it is another coming out experience but I love my job doing it I've tried to retire twice now because I retired from the military then I was a government contractor in New Mexico and I'm not ready to be done yet but I can retire as early as November if I want to do you think you will? no the lady does not want me in the house that much well, please tell us how you came to IMSL and about winning your title okay, I had like I said IMSL a couple times in the background and seen it it was very very cool and when I retired from the military I said I will never go back in the closet again and I will be out and by that time I'd been into leather for 15 years or so so I decided to get more involved with the community and I was actually living in Santa Cruz and San Jose had a very vibrant community so what's so fun about this weekend being at IMSL this year is it's kind of a homecoming for me because I was Miss Leathermaster 1995 right before my title I went to go run at IMSL the community title of Miss San Jose Leather came out of whatever bondage it had been in by whatever club member who owned the title and the rights to the name and so I became Miss San Jose Leather right before the contest and it was so short that it happened that I didn't have a title best so Jeff Tucker who was International Mister Leather 1994 came along and he took one of his old vests and we took the R off of his because he was Mister San Jose Leather and we studded it in an S so the vests that I wore that I ran to compete with the San Jose contest was Jeff Tucker's and I had an incredible set of mentors here in the community Gabrielle had been from San Jose if you ever watched my competition I had a silver LeMay jacket because Gabrielle had made that popular Gabrielle Thornton had been drummer and he lived here in the community and my title Sasha then Kevin Roche we were having a great run and it was a really fun time in San Jose again more clubs were all coming together and doing that and I went to the contest actually I had applied for medical school because I had that premed degree and I was going to come to as a requirement of the title to IMSL and I had to tell them look I'm going to med school next year this would be really nice but I probably can't really do justice to this title I got my last rejection from the medical schools that I went to I applied to about five months before the contest and I said what the hell I'm going to run for it and go for it so it's like to be here kind of a transition year because my year was a transition year as well the San Francisco board the contest, Amy Marie had picked it up and she took it on the road and I won my contest in Chicago and there were 19 contestants in my class they had to make a cut and so I made the top ten it was really fun in this theater in Chicago and all the performance stuff that went on with that and we get to the end and the person who was supposed to would be the big winner and that's who the favorite was there and I was still standing on the floor and I thought I did fairly well but I really didn't know how I'd done and I went oh wow okay I guess I didn't make the top three and then they called my name and I got up there I found out after I didn't win a single category I was second or third in all of them but because of my overall score and doing well and being able to do all the parts of IMSL that's how I won so I was the first IMSL of the second generation well tell us a bit about the recent IMSL changes what's going on and what can we anticipate for the future well it says Sunday we're here, we're queer, we're leather we did it so much less theoretical now I know when Doug and I talked about these questions a little further back well this is kind of what we hope and now I've got a lot more tangible pieces with that but what happened with us last year is that we were going along I was an IMSL alumni which is one of the perks and benefits of being an IMSL you come here, you get to play, you get to do whatever you want nobody really has very many expectations of you you get to walk up on stage once maybe you do some classes and that's kind of your role in that Sharon had been involved on the registration side and was doing some great work and revamping that making all that work and it came to life to us the writer is part of Sharon's family in terms of the leather family and that came to her attention that in fact monies were being misappropriated for charities or hadn't gotten there and things like that Glenda came to us and asked us if we would buy it to Sharon and I to buy Angel from her first thing we said was hell no that was not in our plan Sharon was a bit more emphatic about that because she was dealing on a very personal level with that as well for me it was like that's not in my plan I had tried when Amy in Gen 2 sold it to Glenda I was the first bid and Amy and I were in negotiations for quite a while and we just couldn't close the deal to sell it so I was attempting to buy Imzel 8 years ago and that did not happen Glenda picked it up and moved forward so it was like that should have sailed I'm kind of done with that and we'll move forward what happened a day or two after that is Sharon got a call from Spencer Berkset who is an old friend of hers from the Seattle area and I got a call from John Crongaard within hours of each other on the same day and both of them said you need to take this this is important this is an important contest we love it we want it to continue you need to do this now we thought for a while they were in Kahoot said somebody in the big Uber leather elder council come along and said yes you are the title holder you will do that in fact they did that was a spontaneous on both of them Glenda had a lot of other offers on the Imzel productions part of that and looked at them and decided that it was what she wanted her preferences were to give it to us when Amy bought Imzel from the board in San Francisco she paid them a dollar what we offered Glenda was a dollar and that she would keep all of the debt to the charities and to the other areas that she still had to pay and we would start clean we would start with nothing but we would start clean as a new Imzel productions and then Sharon and I of course talked about what the part she doesn't like is fundraising education dealing with the title holders on a day to day kind of basis about cover your ears and that's the part I love so Sharon used to produce power search she was one of the early organizers of power search so she likes to throw a hot weekend and I think what we found this weekend was that this is a hot weekend people have been having fun it's a good contest, it's gone really well and I get to do what I love doing and created what was called the Imzel foundation so it has kicked off and I talked this morning in the brunch that we already have gotten in for the travel fund for the title holders over $6,000 so they'll each get $3,000 and I what the fuck video from bathrooms all over the United States and Berlin and everywhere else I just brought in another over $1,000 so that kind of my goal of my passion is to make sure the current Imzel and Bubba can travel with the experiences I got to have and hopefully not go into debt at $15,000 to $16,000 because we're excited this year one of the new feeder contests that's coming to Imzel is a Miss South Africa contest that's going to happen in December and I was at LLC a couple weeks ago and Yaku did a kind of strip and raised $2,600 for that travel fund and what I was so honored about was that both Cowboy Jen and Yaku came to me and said this Imzel foundation is where we want to put that money to hold for the Miss South Africa travel fund so we've got a designated fund that when that person wins that title that their travel and trip will be taken care of now a little beyond the scope of what we want to do for Imzel foundation overall but it's a big part of that so it's been crazy it's been wonderful days of this but it's people have shown up and they've had a wonderful time so I thank the communities and the title holders and the contestants we prayed that we would get at least a contest we wanted at least two Buplacks and two Imzels we ended up with eight Imzels and two Buplacks and had an amazing class that believes in what we do and really move forward so if you could do anything you wanted and had no limitations whatsoever what would you do with it? we've learned a lot and there's a lot of debriefing kind of aspects but if I really take a longer look and say what's that strategic part I think I want to try to find a place where I don't have to retire again you know my work in the LGBT community is really fun and exciting but if we can grow this foundation with grants and the things we want to do and the work we want to do with and increasing education and a small community could get a grant from us to bring an educator in that we can have the title holders who could train and build up and be our representatives and get to where they need to go I would love to be the executive director of that organization as Imzel Foundation and that I would work with this weekend as one of the projects that we would work with as the 501c3 because I believe this community Yaku's fundraising was so good is despite all the stuff we've seen over the last year in terms of monies and finance and all that stuff happening that this community still wants to give and still has that heart that I learned way back in Phoenix in those first days you were honored with the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Leather Leadership Award please tell us a bit about that I felt old I looked at the previous winners Aldwin, Grayland Thornton, Judy Revye, I'm sorry and those are the folks that were my mentors when I won the title they were the elders who came up and said good job kid here's what you gotta go do, go do this and I had been a creating change and I go for my job and things like that we had just finished our big workplace summit and I got a call from Suhide and we chatted for a while and it was one of those kind of C-3 to 501 C-3 kind of conversations and then she dropped the bomb that you bet selected as the award winner this year it was only the second woman and Vi Johnson was the first and I just kind of shook my head going me, you know for me I am always a boy in service and I do that because I love what I get from that I get a lot of stage time I have an extrovert because the light goes on but I love just being able to serve and make it better and to see a path forward and so thinking about getting up in front of 4,000 people and talking to them who are LGBT queer intersexed, questioning and allies about who we are as leather is a humbling experience because I may be the only voice that they hear about who we are in the community and that we are standing toe-to-toe with them boot-to-boot to be with them and so getting up there was just an amazing experience and I was really, really honored and the timing was amazing we had two comments to it the first this happened after we bought IMSL and I said well maybe if you buy IMSL that's what you get the community gives you award but because it was selected by the former and so that council of elders that we shall not speak of basically said we we endorse you we think what you're doing is important and going forward and with that award came a $5,000 honorarium and with that honorarium that's how the foundation started we're going to talk about in the coming days about match grants I put 2,000 of that in the account already to start the foundation and I'm going to go ask other people to match those funds and to put the other 3,000 in as we need it and so it was so serendipitous to say wow so it seemed like in my life I've always found that if it is easy and it flows that's what I'm supposed to do if I struggle and try to make it happen it's not the right thing to do and this has been that kind of easy what does mentoring mean to you it's been fun I've kind of transitioned that I thought it was just going to have to be the alumni and I didn't have to do all the kind of out front work anymore and so I when I was in Albuquerque until about 2008 I grew the community we did events I was bringing other people up and we began to talk about how do you bring the next generation and talk to people and I am so proud of the fact that Jason DeBoy and Tyler McCormick were both folks who came to me very young in their leather days and just talked to me about it you know I wasn't the first line mentor with them but they came and they asked me that and when Jason won Internationalist Boot Black and Tyler won Internationalist Leather I could not have been prouder so I realized that for me that sense of sharing it you know Joe Carter you know Imzo 1996 said each one teach one we've got amazing skills and abilities and part of that foundation belief is really to make it a professional development you know I can do it yes but I need somebody who's half my age to do it and I need them to find somebody who's half their age because otherwise clubs come and go groups come and go titles come and go and we're not going to be a community if we have to keep riding the surf what's the biggest misconception about you huh probably that boy to me means only submission I am not submissive anybody who knows me and sometimes when people only see my exterior part they go you're a bottom you're a boy that's amazing that I have found in my life that being a boy and doing good service when somebody says to me your job is to go out and do that the best you can because I'm under order and I love to serve and that I'm not doing it because I'm topping the community or something like that it's really about community service and I love that so thank you all for engulging me this weekend in my service fetish could we stop for a little while say for it well I'd like to thank you very much Pat