 Dear colleagues, dear friends, allow me to introduce myself for those of you who are joining for the very first time. My name is Serge Rangoni, President of ETC and General Manager of the Théâtre de Liège in Belgium. It's my pleasure to open the very first ETC week of new European drama, which was organized with the kind collaboration of Charles Spilot's Gratz, where we meet in person and in the theatre's venue on the Dramatode Digital microsite. Through this innovative programme, or aim, is to first inline the importance and relevance of new European drama, contemporary theatre's creation and the richness of stories for the stage. Secondly, to celebrate international collaboration in theatre, bringing together artists and audiences. These two topics have obviously become very dear to us after more than one year of closed venues and theatres across Europe. In order to help us achieve these goals, we organized the Young Europe Festival to gather as part of a Young Europe 3 programme. From 7th to 9th June, the festival will present nine productions from five countries, focusing on performative research for young audiences with topics such as identity and democracy from young people's perspective. The detailed programme is available on ETC's website, europeantheatre.eu. A range of related activities will enrich the festival and push our societal thinking even further. Our ETC International Theatre Conference of 10th and 11th June will focus on the unprecedented situation currently our sector is facing. It is arred by the pandemic with the topic silence theatres in 21, illiberal democracies and effects of Covid-19. Secondly, participatory readings of new translated texts as well as the kick-off of the pipeline's projects and the meeting of the European authors, the Dramatiker Innen Festival, offering a huge insight into new trends and tendencies from all over Europe from 8th to 13th of June. All these events constitute ETC's weak long celebration of new writing, the weak of new European drama. Let us not forget that international collaboration in theatre is the key to continue, to connect, to extend and to bring in new perspectives into art, into people's life and into society. The weak brings together ETC's result of all four-year programme, engage and powering today's audiences through challenging theatre. We developed and tested with partners and audiences around Europe new theatre practices for young theatre and participatory theatre. We are very proud to share all new works to discuss with all colleagues, new colleagues, students, artists and politicians. Finally, I would like to express my special thanks to the European Commission and especially to Barbara Gesler, who has already been at our site through this year long. To the ETC member theatres, to the participants, guests and experts and to all the people who have been involved in the process, I wish you all a very inspiring week of new European drama and I hope that this is the first step to see and to share things together. Welcome to the ETC week of new European drama. I'm Heidi Weile and I'm ETC's Executive Director. And it's an immense pleasure for me to greet you to this week long celebration of new writing and European theatre in our new virtual host theatre, the Schauspielhaus Graz in Austria. Let me invite you to this week, which we created and curated together with the community of ETC theatres for part of our European theatre network that counts over 40 public theatres from 25 countries. As you can imagine, this was all but a given and an easy task as COVID-19 stopped our theatre and international activities a year ago. And we had to deal with the uncertainty of the future as new habitus. And let me say one thing ahead, creating an online and hybrid theatrical international festival was nearly unthinkable a year ago. So this week is mostly and above all the result of the accelerated learnings we all made over the last 12 months and the joint desire to find new ways of working together internationally. Therefore, I really would like to congratulate our theatre partners and colleagues who were committed to bring four major international initiatives come to life as part of this week to be a window into the European contemporary theatre landscape. And why is this important to us? Let me just give you a few programmatic details on what has driven us in our political efforts over this last year. We kick off, and I'm very proud about this, with the Young Europe Festival together. Making theatre with and for young people has already been one of our major goals before the pandemic. Turning the spotlight onto the critical and diverse voices of our future generations was what occupies the mind of our future generation. This is what this festival is looking at. The festival was already postponed from one year ago. So now finally is the time to see those new nine productions for young people using exciting new and old spaces that show the innovative and creative talent. Standing from classroom productions to immersive theatre games made by our ETC member theatres from the Tone Macarai in Amsterdam and the Netherlands to the National Theatre in Kajová in Romania. But this is not all. We invited nine school classes from those nine participating cities in five countries to watch in tandem the performances, talk and discuss with the artists about theatre. You all have heard or know about it. COVID-19 isolated theatre education work and youth theatre groups from each other. Young people had very specific issues to deal with during the lockdowns and the pandemic, including disrupted education pathways, loss of future perspectives and mental health issues. We are convinced of the utmost importance for continued support for youth theatre initiatives to help in the recovery process. Teachers are a valuable community and helps to foster participation and ensure that the pandemic perspectives of young Europeans are heard of and seen. This week gives time and space to do so. We'll also see the results of the selected place by the ETC European Drama Committee. We discussed at the ETC International Theatre Conference silence theatres and the effects of COVID-19 in liberal democracies. And I'm very happy about this, that we are also partnering as part of this week with the well-established and renowned European theatre festival, Dramatica Women. To bring our international audience the best of new European drama. We want this ETC week of new European drama to be a celebration of theatre. Finally, a celebration after more than a year of theatres being closed, not just in Europe, but around the world. After a year of the COVID pandemic, in which our reason of existence, doing theatre and working internationally, as we knew it was taken away from one moment to another. After a year of constantly proving our systemic relevance to remain part of societal and political debates, our sector has been many times now labelled a loser of the pandemic. Being one of the sectors in Europe financially most hit, left behind by political decision makers. So I want to repeat what I said already a year ago. What makes humans human? Our physical needs and our mental needs. Yes, we need to feed our body, but also we need to feed our soul and minds. We need social encounters and exchanges to nourish ourselves. And it's the privilege of action, it's the privilege of art, especially in times of major upheaval. To ask the very big questions of mankind, to reflect on them and to transform them aesthetically. ETC's goal is to show exactly this. European initiatives on artistic, societal and on the political level. They are essences to fuel changes among the individuals and professionals involved. And we hope that our work and initiatives such as the ETC Week of New European Drama reaches individuals and communities to reinforce inspiration for the European dimension and reach wider groups of citizens such as the students of our nine school classes from five countries in the process. Therefore my plea, it is essential to enable and support international theatre collaboration and the exchange of work practices, continued and expanded international cooperation is necessary to create theatre in the future. Now I wish you all inspirational performances, enlightening encounters, and I'm very pleased that we will be joined by our partners and funders, the European Commission and the Allianz Kulturstiftung in our upcoming talks and debates. And last but not least, I want to say thank you to our funders and our ETC member theatres, our partner theatres, and the entire ETC team. Without your support and commitment, the international work would no longer be existing. So let's all enjoy and debate again what we like most. Loat of European drama. Hello everyone. Thank you Heidi and Serge for your kind and theatre celebrating remarks. On behalf of the entire team I would like to welcome you all warmly. Welcome to our panel guest and audience on the virtual festival platform drama digital. I would like to welcome the ETC board, the European theatre convention members and guest, the young Europe partners, and of course again all the live stream viewers. I will give some brief technical details before I dive into the content of today's panel. We want to invite you all to use the chat to say hello and to let us know where you are joining us from. And of course you are welcome to join the discussion with us. For this you can use the comment sections, if you are joining us from Facebook live stream, or if you are right now in Zoom, you can use the Q&A tool, it's a button on the bottom of your screen. And please start asking questions now. And if possible, tell us who the question is aimed at. We collect all the questions and take them into the discussion later this morning. I'm very excited to take you through our panel today, new formats and spaces for young audiences. This morning we will discuss our visions, ideas and strategies on how we can bring theatre back to young people, back to young people are back to young people, and how we can make or maybe also reinvent theatre as a relevant space where young people meet. And maybe also I want to add what we can learn from younger generations to reinvent theatre experiences. But first of all, let me introduce myself very briefly. My name is Farai Halil. I'm a theatre scholar, ethnologist and feminist activist. In my thoughts and work I'm concerned with the intersection of politics and aesthetics, so thus with questions of representation and power or visibility and access participation in the art scene. Right now I'm working in the Alliance Kulturstiftung. I'm responsible for the performing and visual arts and the Alliance Kulturstiftung is a not for profit cultural foundation which promotes open and diverse societies through arts and culture in Europe and the Mediterranean. Very important to make the bridge to our panel today. In the last years and months we are also especially concerned with the topic of, or the question of how we can improve the living conditions of future generations. Therefore we need, or we think that we need to listen to them, and that we need to engage them in conversations about their future. So this is a practice which I really appreciate in the Young Europe project a lot. So telling that and before I speak too much. And before we get into the discussion with our panelists, we will give a couple of young theatre makers the digital stage to hear their thoughts and vision. I want to say hello to our young ambassadors, Franca, I hope I pronounced all the names correctly, Tamar, Jojana, Jana and Laura who will also join us later. So I would say action. A powerful and strengthening word full of hope, fears, uncertainties and a brightly colored prospect of a better future. It has always been considered that the young generation is to be the one that masters, that dares to soar into the inconstant state of our society and take initiative so as to mitigate the already existing problems. To be honest, there is a certain tendency to place considerable pressure on the shoulders of youngsters structuring them as these individuals from which everyone expects glorious deeds. To me youth is indeed a powerful and strengthening word, not only because of the great expectations with which we are regarded, but also because I deeply know that we are the groundbreakers, the ones that break the mold. We are young in our teens, however this does not inevitably imply that we shouldn't have a voice. We are young, a fill from the hectic and poisonous environment of our leaders. Therefore, we are more likely to express a clearer opinion, not being retained by any boundaries or social restrictions. Injustices in our faulty system exist all around the world. Hence, as citizens of this globe well aware of the current situation, it is our duty to intervene and take a stand. Whether we are referring to our educational system or to the level of pollution that massively affects the environment, we are responsible for creating a safer and more harmonious surrounding in which one is to reach a proper development as well. When tackling this extremely delicate and hardly to be defined subject of changing the world, it is necessary to affirm that change starts with your very own self. It is absolutely impossible for us to fight into words or to stop famine. Instead, we, as the proud representatives of the young generation, must acknowledge that our everyday activities and actions are strictly connected to what happens on a more extended level. We average citizens always think that our actions have no influence, but we can do much more than we think. We have the right to vote, which we should use to guide the decisions that affect us all. Elections cannot be taken for granted because democracy is not everywhere. Democracy is an important part of the EU and also of Europe, which we should not under any circumstances ignore and which should not be maintained. We also have a lot to contribute to the climate. We can do more with bicycles or use public transport. We can eat more original food and we can do even more to protect the climate. This action is important to maintain easy travel between all EU countries. Through globalization, we have the advantage of getting from A to B so easily that we should not destroy ourselves just because we are too lazy to vote or care about the environment. If everyone changes their behavior, this will have a major impact on us all and on the future. Politicans have the task of implementing our wishes and identifying problems so that things like Brexit in particular no longer occur. We humans have to do more and not postpone it any longer so that the next generations are at least as well off as we are. Thank you. I hope the current generation of adults take enough care of the Earth so that the next generation can enjoy our beautiful planet too. I want my children to stay happy and healthy. I would for the school system to be reformed. Let's focus on achievement more on the people there. I want my parents to be proud of me. I hope that parents and legal guardians realize the real needs of their children and act accordingly. I hope that young people live their lives to the fullest. I want a job that makes me happy. I want a house. Consumerism should stop. I am afraid of arrogance and foolishness and so I wish that the clever and responsible do not keep silent. I wish that our economy and society remain peacefully stable so that our descendants can live their houses without being afraid knowing they have rights and liberties. I wish for everybody to find God in their lives and thereby have a happy life in a better society. In my future I want to spend more time with the people I love. It would be great to solve all problems around the world without war, violence or weapons. I am afraid to lose people that are by my side now. I am afraid our world will go completely in the wrong direction. I am afraid my dreams will never come true. And yes, my dear ladies and gentlemen, yes, we all are. We all have hopes and dreams and the bigger they are, the more not achieving them frightens us. But let me tell you something. As long as our magic bond lasts, you do not have to be afraid. Look around you. You are here with all those other people. You are in a theater. This is only one of many fantastic opportunities to meet others, strengthen our society and let our magic bond continue. And so finally, here is my wish. I want this world to never run out of those possibilities because if we help them and if we use them, it means that our magic bond stays alive. It means that a palm necklace endures and it means that it is not helpless to hope. Thank you for your attention. The subject I would like to raise is racism and the fear that turns into rage and then crime. First of all, what is racism exactly? For me, racism is when someone has no respect for a person. People are no longer open to new things. It seems as if they are afraid of the unknown and do not delve into new things and therefore simply believe everything and adopt what they see or hear on the news and the TV. Because of this ignorance, fear is created and after a while fear becomes anger. How often do you hear that someone has been attacked because of his or her conviction? Wars are starting because of this ignorance. I am concerned that in the future people will only be prejudicing and not open to wanting to know different religions and nationalities. That everyone keeps thinking in box. You don't have to agree with someone else's conviction, but respect someone as a person and show everyone's worth. I think it's a very important factor in life for today's youth. We see this happening around us and maybe some experience it ourselves. I sincerely believe that the youth can change this. We see, think and do things differently. We are more open to new things. Accept yourself the way you are. We're only human, that's what makes us unique. That's the beauty of our existence, so chill out ladies. The beauty and the best makeup is the smile. No need to hide behind pounds of plaster. Page 19. What I see is a model sealed by some impossible diet and now for a special discount. Get two for the price of one box. Order our new fat burning pills online. Page 25. Triple chocolate brownies within 20 minutes. It will be gone before you can even say splits and you know what? Let's just lay the magazines to rest if that's not a paradox and I don't know what it is and the same goes for the fact that the lady can't use bad language. I have to suffer in heels day and night and when idiots surround me who are blinded by the light, I can't let a few bloody words slip out. One, two, three, shut up. I don't care what other people think, at least they don't just hang on their phones but finally think. I may be a bit overweight and not wear branded clothes but I share my deepest honest thoughts. I've only a pair of high heels and they are hiding in the back of my wardrobe and on many occasions it's sweats that I choose rather than a skirt. I've let the state of my hair go a long time ago and you know what sunshine? I tell you act like a stupid, empty character. I sing a choir of selected nasty words because what makes me a lady is not that my waist is smaller than the ring around my pinky but the fact that I dare stand up loud and clear and take responsibility for what I deem that I do not try to be a model copy, just a girl who doesn't give in to this paradox society. One, two, three, four, five, six. One, two, three. You know what? Let's go and buy some concrete. Sometimes I wish for life without a common cologne. By that I don't mean denunciation or freedom of opinion but the way in which we fall and express our opinions. I have the feeling that it is becoming increasingly difficult to form our own thoughts. Before I am able to, I am bombarded with comments and heated discussions from other users already influencing my point of view. We no longer listen to each other. Instead we are introverted with stones whose opinions we do not share. This became especially clear during the Corona pandemic. The extreme polarization in both social media and press prevents discussions that could take place on a factual level. This black and white thinking scares me. An anonymous man is able to fundamentally change a life of an individual within a very short time. Without question, in many aspects this cancer culture is good. It can draw attention to racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, inhuman incidents. We are able to make a difference and bring about change with our smartphones. However, in some cases this political overcorrectness that dominates social media can become dangerous. The man does not live with mistakes, which creates a culture of discussion that leaves nowhere. There is no repression, compromise or peaceful exchange of opinion. But rather disliking, insulting and spreading of hatred can be just for a moment all our breath. Just like in a theater where I have to be quiet for two hours and am forced to listen. Only in this way new perspectives can open for me and only in this way I can form my own opinion. At the moment I am collecting the space to interpret. Different people can go to one play and draw different conclusions for themselves. In my view, this is exactly what a successful culture of discussion is. Diverse opinions that are based on unspeakable facts. Welcome back. After these committed, strong, critical and courageous statements. Now we will hear a keynote from Pauline Gallings, who is I would say a real expert in theater with a young audience. For those who do not know Pauline, Pauline is the vice president of the European Theater Convention and head dramaturg at the Tonal Makarai in Amsterdam. Pauline, you have to tell me how I pronounce it correctly. After studying theater and philosophy, she has worked in several theaters as dramaturg or artistic director. And since its foundation in 2009 as a dramaturg of the Tonal Makarai, which is the leading Dutch theater company for young audiences today. As a dramaturg, Pauline has a strong focus on new writing, coaching of playwrights and supporting writers initiatives. So also creating new repertoire for the contemporary society. In the Young Europe Festival, Pauline is also the dramaturg of a play with the strong title H of Rage. H of Rage is about a girl who wants to be heard, but nobody's listening. I won't say more about it because we can see the play also tomorrow at 6.30 p.m. Central European Time in the Young Europe Festival. And before I turn over to you to your keynote Pauline, I would like to invite the audience again to participate through comments and questions in the chat. Pauline, we are eager to hear your thoughts. Thank you for introducing me. Yes, Tonal Makarai it is, but it's hard for non-Dutch people. I practice. Okay. It must have been about 10 years ago that I first heard about the ETC. At that time, Paul Kneriem, who meanwhile is the artistic director of Tonal Makarai, he was still a young emerging director. And he was going to make his first youth theater production at our company. It was going to be a classroom production and he was interested to read existing repertoire for the classroom to make up his choice what he wanted to create. In the Netherlands, it was already quite a long tradition of performing in classrooms, originating from the social political educational theater that flourished in the 70s of last century to reach out to new audiences. The classroom place by Dutch authors, I handed over to him, were of good quality, but kind of old fashioned as well. So I had to continue my search elsewhere. At that time, perhaps I was a late adapter. The internet was not my first place to search for inspiration. But getting kind of desperate that the existing Dutch classroom repertoire didn't appeal to him needed to me, I started to search the internet classroom place. And dated as I was at the time, it came to me as a big surprise that my first hit was the announcement of a young Europe festival showcasing for classroom place created by eight European theaters under the umbrella of the ETC, a European network of theaters that was totally new to me. Excited, I clicked on the link and got even more surprised when I found out that the in my perception old school classroom format was presented as a brand new invention. Furthermore, the description of the young Europe place sounded really contemporary and topical, which made me think why aren't we part of this as high quality youth theater company. One of the four plays presented my mother media by the Austrian playwright Holger Schober seemed to be a perfect match with Paul. I had a meeting with him next day and I wanted to read the play beforehand so I sent an email hit and miss to a for me unknown drama Turk in Heidelberg, who was part of the mother media team. Within an hour, she replied with two PDFs of the play, one in German and one in English. I was delighted and next day I convinced Paul to stage our own classroom version of my mother media. I got in touch with ETC and Paul and I visited the first young Europe festival in Strasbourg. Not knowing yet that in the next 10 years quite a substantial part of my professional life would be fulfilled by the ETC and the young Europe's to come. Side note in the first lockdown, we were forced to change our program for the next season. Instead of making a new production for the theater, we decided to restate my mother media, forming it more than 50 times in school schools while the theaters were closed due to the pandemic. The classroom format turns out to be corona proof. So I took this moment to recall my first encounter with the ETC network and the first edition of young Europe, because the this anecdote includes two topics I would like to highlight. The continuous reinvention of the old format of the classroom play and the disclosure of the European space. Let me start with my last point, the disclosure of the European space. It may sound naive for the vice president of the ETC, but at the time I was thrilled to get an immediate reply from a German dramaturg. And I was thrilled to receive the play not only in its original language, but in English translation as well. Pointing out that translations are crucial in the multilingual European culture of performing arts. Next later, I met the dramaturg in real life during an ETC conference, and she became a colleague next to many other new colleagues from all over Europe. Pointing out that personal contact getting to know each other offline as well as online is crucial to create a European space. From there the exchange of ideas starts the solidarity, the engagement with shared comparable issues and the acknowledgement of differences within our societies. Nevertheless, the European space is not defined by the mutual bond between its theater makers. It is and will be created by our audiences, especially by the young audience that ETC is reaching out to with its young Europe project. This brings me to my second topic, the continuous reinvention of the classroom play by using an old format with always new content. Why is the classroom, after 50 years, still such an inspiring and urgent place to make theater for? As I mentioned in my opening, it stems at least in the Netherlands from the 70s of last century. It was a time of social revolution of democratizing and emancipation. Young theater makers started their own revolution in the Netherlands, which became known as action tomato, throwing tomatoes in bourgeois theaters to old fashioned actors in bourgeois performances for a bourgeois audience. Socially engaged theater makers renounced the traditional theaters and decided to make theater in alternative places for new audiences that didn't find their way to the bourgeois theater houses. This so called formings theater related to the idea of building had the aim to empower the powerless in society with a focus on the working class and the emancipation of women. At the same time, youth theater makers fought their own two sided emancipation struggle. As artists, they wanted to be taken seriously. Their work was not merely to be seen as educational and children had to be taken seriously. Like adults, they had the right to art. This generation of youth theater makers started the development of creating high quality repertoire for the classrooms. Fifty years later, society has obviously changed and in the last 15 months even more than we could have imagined. Theaters were or are still closed and the classrooms are confined to computer screens, if at all families have those for their children. The political and societal call for sustainability for diversity and inclusion increases every day. A new generation of makers, thinkers, speakers, writers and activists have risen. The changed streetscape in many European cities, the increased empowerment of marginalized people, global movements like Me Too and Black Lives Matter, national movements like Decolonize the Museum and the effects of COVID-19, they all forced the theater sector to reinvent itself. One can do this by trying out new formats, which I'm very much in favor of. But what I would like to stress now is that the reintroduction of an old format like the classroom play can be highly effective starting point to reinvent your theater practice and to reach out to new audiences. In the classrooms, all layers of society are present and within its this intimate space, young people of all kinds of backgrounds can experience the power of theater and storytelling by showing with a minimum of theatrical means a multitude of voices and histories that make what Europe is today. As a theater maker, it aids to have this diverse audience in direct focus. It makes you aware of the dominant perspective in European theater literature, which is why it's heterosexual and male. New intersectional stories and new role models are needed, written, created and performed by a new generation of makers, thinkers, speakers, writers and activists. Side note, the intersectional approach acknowledges systematic discrimination due to sexual orientation and identity, gender and gender identity, race, economic status, national origin and ability, among other aspects of one's identity. And it acknowledges that this systematic discrimination impacts access to opportunity. The roaring call for diversity, gender equality and inclusion in the theater sector. The call for change from within which I do here to create tension and discomfort. It's confronting to become aware and acknowledge that we all are culturally conditioned by prejudices and stereotyping. Perhaps it's even more confronting to realize that we as theater makers take part in the reproduction of affirmative images over and over again. At the same time, it's a great opportunity for the European theater sector to become front runner in the field of safety, inclusion and accessibility. The format of the classroom play is the perfect arena to explore the polyphonic society that goes beyond prejudice and stereotyping in order to truly connect to to empower and to create a sustainable young Europe. Thank you. Oh, thank you Pauline for this important input. There is so much to discuss. So, due to the time, I would say we will have the keynote of Anton first and then discuss all together, I guess, because yeah, we also want to give the audience space to ask their questions. So, and at this point I think it's the best to take up the idea with a new or the point of the new format you made and Anton will give us a little more practical input about this new format and about the challenges of new formats. Yes, Anton Kurt Krause is a stage director and media artist. He studied directing at the Academy of Arts in Ludwigsburg. He worked for the Tariat Theater in Hamburg is part of the collective Anna and I, and has collaborated with contemporary art collectives like Machina X or double look lucky productions. Since 2018. Anton has been studying the masters program, spiel and object and object came and object at the Ruchschule für Schauspiel, Kunst und Busch. His work is mixture between theater games and installation, which gives them I think important tools and perspectives also for new formats for and with young people. Anton is also one of the directors of the interactive and live theater game. Demo crisis, which you can attend today as part of the young Europe festival. The interactive play democratize right democratize this whole a lot deals with questions of populism nationalism and xenophobia. So like Europe is on trial today. And I think yesterday's election results of the IFT in Saxony and makes the issue even more acute today. So the question is, of the play is what are the perspectives of young Europeans, and also of course how can interactive playful theater pieces help young people test their decisions and actions about what kind of world they want to live in. Anton will share his insights from his current artistic practice with us and your audience you are welcome to ask questions in the chat. And until then, Anton, the screen is yours. I will just like make it a little bit short because we are wanting a little bit out of time and I'm more interested in the discussion, but I wanted to few mentioned like three, like, I don't know kind of advices about my practical knowledge that I gave over the years and doing other formats in theater than just someone is sitting in the audience watching on the stage. So, so my first advice is, if you make like a new format. I will do that a lot because I think like new formats. It's kind of over-execuating often because, you know, it's a broad term of like so different and many types of theatrical situations. So, yeah, my first is my first advice is if you try something new, you have to test and test it early on with as much as people as many as people that you can get in the theater to see. Sorry, to see the thing that you do that don't try to explain it too much. Try to do it, try to test it, try to show it to the people, because this is the only chance that you can get for the others to really understand what you want to do. And it's even for you, the best chance to really understand what you do. So usually when I try something new, I will invite people like on a very, very early stage, like I didn't have the whole thing set. I just have like, I don't know, like the first quarter or something. And then I try to get people because when you do participatory stuff, you need the people to practice, you need lots of test runs. So I urge you to do that. It helps a lot for your work as well as for the theater and their departments to chip in and to gather ideas with you because my experience is if you are able to explain it and explain why do you need this format and how it's connected to the content that you want to express, people understand and people are eager to solve your problems as well. So my second advice is communication is key. So if you do something new, you have to communicate about like everything. One topic is if you do digital arts, it's always the internet. So it's always problematic because you know most of the theaters at least here in Germany struggle with the right way of providing internet services in their stages, because often they are not kind of needed. So and if, and sometimes they will say, or they will like say to you, yeah, we have like an internet and then it's kind of a shitty free Wi-Fi where you can't like work if you want to stream. So you have to be very concrete about your needs. And if you want the people to go on stage to participate, if you want people to go in the, in the addict of the theater to participate, there are a ton of things to consider and a ton of things to work around to make this happen. So it's always communication. So try to communicate with a lot of people more than you think are important for your work. Try to communicate to all people you see on the theater, like even on the entry, like as much as you can to say, I will do something new. The people will be there and they will come here and stuff. So everyone knows about it. And my third is don't accept anything as common or like, you know, even if you think like this is kind of more traditional thing that I will do. It should work on a theater. Sometimes it wouldn't because every space is different. Every theater works in different kind of things. They are slightly different. So, so try to find out what's, what's your frame and how to fit in and how to how to find your, your way to, to your goal. And yeah, this is three major things to consider if you, if you want to make a new format, like try to find out what's the core of it. And then you can communicate about like, like an example, find a nice way or nice center to, to connect it. Because nothing is completely new. If you do like an audio walk, you know, it's like people, people know that at theaters if you do participatory theater, people have a kind of idea of it. And you can use that just to shape like a little bit the idea that you want that, that they can understand your idea. So make it, make your, your, your thing that you describe like vibrant and that I could try to get the idea as, as, as narrowed in as you, as you can because like no format knows thing is completely new, you know, there's, there are always some kind of relations that you can start on with and says it's a little bit like this, you know, the, the show that we had in, in, in, in MacBook, the demo crisis, we did it on a stage but you know the people should go on the stage so we had to figure out a way how they can do it because it's, it's, it's not so easy in the public theater that people can actually go on stage because there's like insurance issues and stuff and so we have to figure out how this kid could work and now we make it completely new format of the new format in zoom so we had to figure out like how to get a lot of PCs there and and infrastructure that is somehow in the theater but like it's it was not easy to get it on stage and to find all these things because it's not easy to go on to a network that's not protected into this building so we have to find ways to get there so but I started off with this idea of it's like a zoom meeting so the people could connect because you know everyone knows we are just right in it. So, yeah, so this was my point to start and then to develop further on. Yeah, this is kind of a hands on advice. And yeah, thanks for listening. And I hope we have a great discussion right now. Thank you, Anton. And, yeah, welcome back to the discussion and welcome also to Christina Cattola, Laura Sabo and Hannah Granger Clemson. I mean, I think I have a couple of questions to you. Also regarding like where about the stand like where I was standing right now in the major theaters what can we also learn from. I think the free scene but before we got to the discussion all together I would like to ask brief questions to our new panelists and starting with Christina. So everybody can give a short input input I think Christina Christina Cattola. I would like to introduce you briefly Christina as a cultural project manager and creative producer for performing arts with a strong experience in strategic networking and mentoring shares a specific expertise in audience development development and engagement methodologies of for young people. Christina is also the artistic director of month over any new generations festival producer of team theater network and chain reaction project. And from April 2021, she's member of the International Association of Theater for Children and youth as it has international executive committee. Christina. As with your expertise in audience I would to address this expertise. Pauline mentioned that the European space is and will be created by our audiences, especially by the young young audience. For example that European theater convention is reaching out to with its Europe projects. So I would like to know from from you as with your experience and what role can theaters play in society to help make young people hurt. Would you like to give a brief. Yes, I will try. I will try to give brief and short and sharp as as I can. I will just add one thing about the asset is international because I think that this is the situation to give you information about that but quickly. I will put in the chat, the website of asset is international so that you can have more information about all the work that is going on and have been done during this year so because as it is international was founded in 1965. And we recently had a work Congress that was both live and online in March, 21, and we had the 1170 unique paying users at this Congress and 30 European countries participating. Why I'm speaking about that because in this context that we had a lot of discussion, of course, about how theater, which is the role of theater in reconnecting with young audience and and the impact in society, because this was one of the topic of this work Congress that was no one is left behind. So this is just, I will say, a great statement, and this huge community because we are more than 100 countries connected in the world. In this discussion, we had several, let's say information or things that were kind of milestones. Okay, I was looking for this word. One thing is that I will start from asset is international statement that is that we really have the feeling that we need to do things to reach those who are not connected already with the other. The topic of accessibility is really the one with, we need to reinforce or to have action on to do action on that on this. So all what we can do is about trying to reach those who are not still in our dialogue. I will really stress this concept because I am really happy to be in this dialogue today and I really agree with all the panelists that have been speaking to before me because I really feel that we have a common dialogue, common language. And we look at the problem from the same point of view, but we, I feel that we need to remember that in this moment, mainly after COVID, we don't need to reflect on the format, or on the topic, or participatory or let's say old fashion style theater, but we need to find new ways to set a dialogue. I am really strong on this fact, because this is also the most important achievement we had after six years of research in the team process. That was the process we set at the starting from 2016. It was a creative Europe founded process with some, I will not list the participants because I will put you in the chat, the link of the platform where you can have all the information. But during those years of research, the most important thing we understood is that we saw the new format that we can find to set the dialogue and to create a space to have a dialogue with our audience, mostly if this audience are teenagers or young adults. This is what we need to reflect on. I'm telling you that we have been doing in the team project, a lot of discussion with teenagers. We have been inventing new format or using old format just to make you an example. We created a team kitchen table that is the format of the kitchen table format dialogue discussion. But this is like the flippant classroom. That means the teenagers are the teachers, the one who has the leadership, and we are listening to them. In a lot of those meetings, we had, when I say we speak, I mean artists, delegates, producers, director of festivals, teachers. We had a feeling that we know nothing about them and that they are so much powerful than what we think. That is something that, of course, we felt when we were listening to the witnesses of the that we have heard before, but the experience is that we don't have, we don't give ourselves enough time to listen to them. We don't take care of setting in the productive process. This time, this space for the dialogue with them. This dialogue is a so powerful time that in our experience, we can say that even one hour and a half of discussion with teenagers will change. The approach of artists and delegates and producer. So, in those who are responsible for setting the theater proposal. And this changement, this is the turning point that we need to look at in this moment. I will tell you more about this, the importance of this turning point and this approach. We have the teenagers. In the teen project, because you know nothing about that, just briefly giving you the frame and then I will finish. In the next project, we were setting those dialogues with teenagers by giving them tools to better criticize and to better have give words to their feelings after watching a show. This was the tool that we were using to get to create the connection. What did we learn that there are no good shows, no bad shows for teenagers, but there are only shows. The importance is how you create the space to set the dialogue after the show that is able to go against the boomerang effect. The boomerang effect is the effect that makes the teenager or a citizen, because this is what we need to remember is not going anymore to theater because he had bad experience. So this space is the space we need to collect this experience to take care of the experience and to give the citizen the tools to transform this experience as one of the experience of his cultural life. That means that we need tools, ideas, new format to reach those who we are not used to reach. How can we do it, the experience during COVID, the time I will say because it's not finished, is that we should really use the digital space to set this dialogue. In our experience in the teen process, we had a lot of dialogues with our teen community online and we shared a lot of shows digitally. And that was another value because you can really use the digital space to create a community. But be aware that this community will be the community of those teenagers who already have access to culture. So now we need to shift, and I will finish, to how we connect or reconnect and connect to those who doesn't have access. Just to make an example, we are with the team projects. We are arranging a space that's called Teen Academy in an isolated place that is an island in Italy in which we will have a meeting in person in Julius Highland with teenagers, teachers, because the school system is the one we need to speak together, but the person who will come after me will tell us or something about that, I guess. And artists, producer, to ask each other how we can connect to those who have not access to culture. Can we work on cultural nutrition and feed our soul from this point of view? Which kind of setting to reach them? And teenagers are our ambassadors in the sense that we don't charge them to be the one who connect them, but that together we have this change of mindset that makes us able to create those new formats. Thank you, Christina. I think we have, and we will, and we need to come back to the question of access again, but right now I totally agree with you in every point. I would like to ask, right now, Laura or Lala, with our youngest participant today in this panel, what she's thinking about all these questions of access also because I'm thinking like, okay, we want to give access, and make participation possible, but I'm also thinking, do we maybe also need to change something in our understanding of how contemporary theater works. And I would like to welcome Laura. I hope Laura's technique works. Laura was one of our young ambassadors. We saw her in the video, the cool poetry slammer. Laura has been involved in several cultural projects and arts group in the past, and she leans most on performing arts. She does poetry slam. And is a member of the Romantic School Theater. I'm sorry, Laura, if I pronounce it wrong. And she has been doing tensing work under the YMCA and the group Tensing Savaria, where they put together shows that include singing, dancing and theater elements. Laura, are you here? Yes, and I really hope that my sound is going to get better the more I speak, so I'm trying my best. Okay, so my question for you is, I would really like to listen to your experience. Do you feel, you talked about your visions in your poetry slam, very critically, and do you feel seen and understood in the contemporary theater scene? This would be my question. Do you want to say something about this? How is your position yourself there? First of all, I'm very happy to be here and I'm honored to be a part of this panel. And to answer your question, the short answer would be that, yes, I do feel completely understood and completely comfortable expressing myself in the contemporary theater part. As you have mentioned in my introduction, I'm a part of a renaissance school theater here in Sombat, Hungary. And there was actually a play I think it was like two years back. And the poetry slam you heard in my mission statement was actually my monologue in that play, because I was like getting into that type of character. Why I chose that monologue, because we put together the play ourselves, which was a really great experience. And we were heard by the other directors as well, and we had the artistic freedom to do it. I chose that topic, because as I mentioned, this was like two years ago, at the time, that was what I was struggling with. But as I grew a bit older, and as my living environment changed, because I moved from Sombat High to Budapest before Covid, now I'm back home in Sombat High due to the Covid, but I'm in Budapest for university most of the time. The focus I have on different things and the problems that arise in my everyday life, they keep changing. And the main focus keeps shifting, but I think that through contemporary theater and poetry slam, which can be described like a one-man show theater in some contexts, I think that gives a huge opportunity to get a therapeutical view, because I can get the things I want to say, and the problems I have to share off my chest, which makes me feel a little lighter. And I actually wrote a slam like a year ago, which is kind of like an ars poetica of mine for the stage. If there is only one person who looks at me, listens to what I say, and feels like that they feel understood, they feel like they kind of see a bit of a reflection of themselves, and they know that they are not alone, and it's okay to struggle and we can overcome it, whether that be mental health issues, whether that be just the everyday problems or the global pandemic that we're having right now, I think that gives purpose to why I'm standing on stage. And that is why I feel like contemporary theater, theater in general, and poetry slam and tensing work brings people together, because even if we don't know each other, we know that there's someone who understands us, that our voices are heard. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things, apart from art, like transcending culture and language barriers. So I'm really happy that I get to participate in contemporary theater. Wow, thank you. And so I think we have like in this panel very different perspectives also on this topic because we heard at the beginning from Pauline, the perspective of young theater makers as speakers of their own that has to be taken seriously. And that like adults that are not participating only for an educational manner but also for like as artists, I think so and I can see with you Lala, how you bring also all this like you know purpose driven, traditional therapists and artists come or components together. And there is another important perspectives in the panel and I'm, I know that we are running of time but I would like to give her the space next to give a small input on her work. It's Hannah Granger Clemson. So, thank you, Laura Lala, do you want me to say Lala Lala. Yeah, thank you like most people know me as Lala in the artistic when you so I'm thankful. Yeah, sure sure. Lala, thank you. So, so. But before we discuss again all together or you can also ask questions to each other or we have hopefully questions from our audience and I will give us a first short input also our intervention. Hannah is a has a PhD in drama and education. She's a former school policy officer for the European Commission, where she focused on supporting ministries with their school education systems and the development of cultural awareness and expression. Currently she's working as an education and cultural researcher and consultant. And I want to pick up all the discussions of for example classroom play again and hand it over to you Hannah are you here for your input just on school partnerships with the cultural sector. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. Hello. I'm going to share my screen if that's okay because I like to have a sort of visual representation of what I'm going to talk about just a few minutes. And really to come back to, well to pick up on so many things that have resonated is in the discussion so far particularly I mean Pauline as you were talking about the classroom as a democratic space and Christina talking about access and I feel very strongly that I'd like to bring in this perspective of formal education of mainstream school education into this discussion because I think reflecting on how we can improve school partnerships with the cultural sector I think is going to help us move from where we are at the moment. As we all know such partnerships can take a range of forms so artists taking production on tour into school buildings, such as the Belgrade Theatre in commentary that I've worked with. But there's also the longer placing of artists educators within schools to work on various outcomes and I think a good example of that is the creative schools initiative in Ireland. The thing about those initiatives is that they are sometimes quite heavily reliant on ministry support as it is with the cultural backpack idea in Norway and Latvia. And that is something that I want to come back to but I think what these successful partnerships have understood from the start, or have come to understand better is that they need to, they need to begin with a common purpose or a shared role that works for both the school and for the organization or theatre company that it's working with. And what I mean by that is why is it important that schools devote time you know that's already under pressure in the day for these experiences is it important for the cultural organizations to be more engaged with teachers and pupils and their needs and of course we've got I think many of the answers have been expressed already this morning. I think the answers that we've already heard and I've always always on my mind is this recognition of the importance of empowering young people to speak and debate and find a negotiated voice through storytelling. This idea of dialogue Christina that you also talked about and I think also Lala were you talking about having that sense of purpose of creating something about and for your peers. I think it's very very important perspective about you know the why for you in terms of participating you know it needs to be meaningful. Any learning from a school's perspective and I think of course the cultural experience perspective, you find that energy in going on a personal journey and moving forward in yourself. And it's not just about changing the whole world but it's about you know starting from yourself and we heard that from the ambassadors and seeing the word world differently. From what I know of the European Theater Convention this has happened brilliantly but we need to still work on I think and understand better how to embed this within formal education systems so that it can be embraced and so that when we're talking about access. You know we are using or including education as a means to reach all young people, particularly those who often miss out now. Fortunately, speaking from or thinking what we've got from a European perspective, there's this powerful European education training agreement, you may not know of it you may know about it called a recommendation, and there's one called key competences for lifelong learning and that states that developing a range of competences so that includes literacy math, science, personal, social, citizenship, digital, entrepreneurship, these are all essential to citizens personal fulfillment, their healthy and sustainable lifestyle, their employability, their active citizenship and their social inclusion. Now this is perhaps something that the cultural sector can refer or link better to. And I hope we in the future we as a combined education and culture community can put the arts on an equal level. Particularly through the competence that's also included cultural awareness and expression, which is an understanding of and respect for how ideas and meaning are creatively expressed and communicated through a range of arts and other cultural forms. And as a way of understanding, developing and expressing one's own ideas and sense of place or role in society. Now, this is all very sounds very straightforward and it works on paper and a national policy documents in theory. But I think the problem that we still have is that the action, the practical examples, as Anton was tuning us into that the practical challenges are not so well connected. And I think we need to find ways, as again Christina was talking about interconnecting practitioners with those who were developing policy reform, those who are in charge of funding local authorities, regional authorities, so that we can manage this. Is it coming from top down or bottom up feeling of new ideas and revolutions to make change happen. I think there's a challenge generally in education at the moment, and course is a great deal of change been happening. But I think what we need is the research evidence because with that we can. We don't need to prove it to ourselves we know the value of theater and education. We need to show it to those who got to make other decisions about funding and transport and spaces and so on so that those resources are available. I think the pandemic has brought more interest openness into learning in different environments and with different tools. I know that the European Commission is focusing on blended learning, which is fantastic business emphasis on well being that Heidi talked about earlier. There's an emphasis on environmental sustainability which I think we need to take into account in our cultural partnerships. I talked about this need to work cross sectorally in terms of funding, even you know buses to take get children to cultural venues like they do in Wales like they do in Belgium. The EU's also recently devoted funding, of course through Erasmus and through creative Europe, and there are networks of ministry representatives and of researchers, but bringing it back around to schools to finish off and I think this is something that we've mentioned and we could maybe discuss in what time is how as artists educators, we can actually support teacher education there's perhaps a fear there. It's a delicate matter teachers are under a lot of stress. And so I think this brings it background to my original point about trying to find this shared purpose the shared benefit so it doesn't feel like well schools now you have to do more, or on top of but actually by working together, we can achieve these common goals. So I think hopefully that's helped bring a bit of the formal education perspective I think education is open. I think the time is ripe to to address these issues and to bring in more dialogue, and this idea of the classroom or school as a democratic space. So look forward to hearing your ideas about that. Thank you. Thank you, Hannah. And I think Christina has a question right now or yes. Yes, I just have a comment because, as you know, I will go in 15 minutes. So I wanted just to add the or to reinforce what Hannah said, because in our pandemic time with our team community. We were asked by our teenagers to have a dialogue between them and us on which kind of tools to give to teachers to better face the digital school. So, it was really interesting for us, because they were the one that were in this kind of approach of which can be the shared benefit of this digital situation. They were thinking and asking themselves how to have their teachers, and they were asking to us. So it was curious to know to for us to see how those teenagers that were in a dialogue with us and that have been asking themselves a lot of question about how to connect and connect with the community, the team community, and the teenagers were already in this approach, feeling that they were already behind us. They were already feeling to be in an alliance together, then the school system and the theater system. That is something that we, I feel that we sometimes need to remember ourselves that we are in the same environment, and they were connecting this level of which is the connection between school system and theater system and how the one can help the other in this situation. So, for them, was definitely and clearly connected with the sustainability level of the theater sector that, and so then it was already there, and we, and I felt that we needed to reach this awareness that they already had. For them, this awareness of being in the same environment and the topic of and the question about sustainability was connected with the environment and the sustainability level of awareness. Sorry, it came from the awareness of the fact that sustainability is not only a matter of economics, but is a matter of perceiving our system as one. So, that was really inspiring for us. And so, yeah, just wanted to have this turning, and this was for me a turning point, because after when you have lived one hour enough with a human being that is a citizen that is giving to you this evidence, you can't avoid thinking about that. It makes in yourself a change that the next ideas, format and everything will be generated by this meeting with the youngsters. This is what I wanted to add. Did I respond? It's super interesting because I think it also comes back to what you were Pauline was saying and Anton also about the bond is created through the participant, not through the designer necessarily, and it's in the act of sharing that the bond is made and I think that's, I think that's a difficult it's been made the the pandemic and the shift to online learning has made this more obvious to teachers is that they were trying to design the experience of which the participants actually had more sense of what was they preferred than the way in which they engage with each other and as you say they are some like the participants are somewhere else and that I think that I think I had a question then for Anton is that whose whose responsibility is it to bring people into a new space or a new way of interacting when they, if it's, you know, you were talking about bringing audience on stage, there are practical challenges but there's also a feeling of this traditions and we're breaking those barriers and it teaches a struggling with the same issues of trying to design a new way of being when actually what it is you want to do is you want to test out a new way of being rather than pre design it and then try and push people into it. I wonder what you thought about that and perhaps Lala to about this, how you come to an agreement about how to have a dialogue in a new space. Yeah, I just wanted to to to enforce my my point of testing the stuff with the audience or the participatory members of the of the gamer of the player, the people that you invite the students. I just invite them early on and just explain we try and you forward and and use your time to speak with them afterwards as Christina said like you need the discussion with them how they felt about it because they will say something completely different than you imagined. They will be smarter than you, for sure. And yeah, and it's it's it's a very valuable lesson to learn like how to make them comfortable in a way and how to challenge them in another way you know it's not about just making them comfortable you always have to try to push them a little bit to to to get this point where you can start your discussion because when I do these interaction things. There's always like 55 minutes interaction, 55 minutes discussion afterwards with with the people that just had this experience so my experiences are designed to be a start off and another interaction discussion because I really believe this is the foundation of the focus is learning a way to discuss and find a way to to to go into and discussion and to to to operate on an on an eye level. So, yeah, test testing testing and inviting the people early on. Okay, so first of all, I would like to say that I completely agree with Anton because one of one of the purposes if I can use that word again of art is to give people a safe place while pushing them just a little bit out of their comfort zone. And going back to Hannah like to answer the question how to start a dialogue and how to bring new people in. In my eyes from my perspective what makes dialogue hard is the fact that it's actually too easy, because anyone literally anyone can start the dialogue about a certain topic about a certain problem about a certain experience, but the fact that everyone can do it makes it harder for people to stand up and start it. So I think some of the people who are like more assertive personality wise, it's a little bit more of our responsibility to like take the lead and go forward. For example, if I were to bring a couple of my friends or even my sister who's not that deep into theater as I am into a space where we discuss a certain play a certain problem to start a dialogue. It's, it's kind of our responsibility as I said to take the lead and make sure they feel comfortable enough to speak up and be the part of the dialogue or be the start of the dialogue. Thank you. I guess right now. And I would also like to give Pauline who started today with her input, the chance to answer, because I think you also spoke a lot about the changes needed on theater. And I would like to bring this about what Lala said right now about the safe space or the feeling safe at theater and challenging it together with the idea that I think that like theater with young people can challenge a lot in the theater and I would like to hear a little bit more Pauline about your experiences on this tension between having a safe space and challenging also in theater with young audience and not only audience with young actors of course. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I like to pick up on what Anton actually said about inviting early on. That's, I think that is something really important not only when you do like for yourself new format, but also to be really in touch with your audience in the creation process. So when we and that is also about creating a safe space and and giving a bit of a challenge. So if we, for example, create a new text for an audience we always have to decide for which, which age group, what is the minimum age. And I find it very hard to I mean I remember very well being a child but it's it's always a very difficult process to to decide what they can take and what they can't take. And then the only thing to find out is go to a classroom ask a teacher can we try out this new text and see what what you get back from from the youngsters or the young children. And then you can decide afterwards what you do with it if you are going to adapt or that you want, want to be still a bit of a challenge. And my experience is that we always underestimate youngsters children that they can take much more than we think of. Yeah, and that's also nice in the rehearsing process to invite them early on and just show your vulnerable work and get a get their feedback on it. Because I can only make as myself in the end and not as as a youngster so I need to dialogue to to create performances that are in dialogue with them as well. Yeah, and I truly recommend because I think in youth theater in general we we are quite aware of our audience and and are quite in dialogue with with our audiences. And I truly recommend adult theater makers also to have their audience in mind while they are creating their work. Because at least in the Netherlands it's often that it's it's about the issues still of the of the playwright the issues of the director the issues of whomever but not exactly the audience. So I think it would be very interesting for adult theater as well to create that dialogue with their audience and have them in mind to make your work. And then I come maybe to your second point very is that I, because you're hinting at what has to change. I think to be are still talking also about a big group of people who are not our regular audience or not going to the theaters but we do find them in schools, as long as you also go to the lower education schools and the, the so called black schools as we have in Amsterdam and then I think it's really important also to really start to make something that they can relate to and has at least one perspective in there that that they that youngsters can relate to also when they have like a background like some are who was our young ambassador. I'm not talking about racism. So I think that is very important that you need to be and also who is on stage. So it's also says something about your casting and and now I think we need to do ourselves also new steps in who is directing who is making the costumes who is who is the playwright. It's important of course. Yes, so and then I think it's. Yeah, I think theater for young audience has to be a very, very high quality because you need to make work. It's definitely perhaps their first experience. So they need to like it. I think this is something I like to see again. So yeah for me the standard of creating theater is very high for young audiences. Yeah. Did I give an answer I don't know but I gave some input, perhaps. Yes, thank you thank you. Yes, saying that it's really exciting to see what is changing like who's directing for example. I want to before I think Anton and Hannah wants to answer I want to remember our audience also that they are allowed to ask questions. If they want, but Anton or Hannah I don't know Hannah or Anton who was first just please go ahead answering. I don't mind. Okay, okay. I would just like share two quick moments of my life in a way. Because I am actually from Youth Theatre Club here in Magdeburg where I'm now like on the theater like 15 years later I'm directing you know, this is kind of a pretty story I think because I started here with 16 to direct as a director I really directed my first play with 16 and I was given the opportunity from the theater pedagogue here. And she, she just decided to make like a structure like her own little theater just with young people you know, we have young drama talks we have young authors we have young directors young actors of course we have young technicians young stage fighting directors and stuff so we were like 150 people like young like under 25 and, and everyone like has was like thrown just like a lot of responsibility on you know and you and you just had to make it so it was like 13 prime years like just from from use and was such an amazing experience like that some of them people like are grown into a theater business, some are actually not but I have, I'm still in contact with kind of with a lot of them in a way and, and even though like it is 15 years right now, I'm not exorbi- exorbi- exorbi- exorbi- exorbi- exorbi- it's really 15 years. It's not like, not over-execuated, it's really 15 years. And I'm still going into the theater talking with one of the technicians and he said I will remember this time forever, because it was so inspiring for all of us. to share like a history of giving them responsibility at your theater, let them do the work in a way. And yeah, so I'm really grateful from just because now I can really say I'm 35 years old, but I can say I'm working in theater for more than 20 years and it's not a lie, you know, and it's always on a professional level. So I'm grateful for that. And yeah, that was my first experience, like a good one. And now I want to emphasize a bad one because I tried. It's kind of, I don't know, it's in my studies when I was a director. I made like a, I worked with a young author that she made like a play for, I don't know, like second grade and was very like a post-modern play. It doesn't tell any story, but we did it and we tested it in a second grade and they were, they found out their own stories in this way. So we really were able to give them like this art experience to watch at something and to get your own story out of it. And they really did it and they liked it a lot, but when we did it, because it was as well like in a festival and we did it without the class because the festival didn't manage to get us young people. And so we had to show it in front of adults and all of them, like after the discussion said to us, the kids don't understand that. And it was so sorry for my language fucked up. I was so devastated from this experience. I was so, I said, no, I don't want to do, I don't want to have to do anything with young theater anymore. If people are like this, I can't get my, I was really angry about them. And I was, I didn't work at those places for five years because I was so, and now I found my way back with this participatory stuff and I tried to inherit it and I have another standing. So I can say, no, they will understand you come to my show and you will see they understand because afterwards they ask the right questions and you will see they are more intelligent or more able to watch art and to interpret it as you think, as you will urge them. Thank you, Anton, because I have a comment on this, but I was wondering if Christina, she had to leave if she's still here to say one last goodbye. And if not, thank Christina. But Anton, yeah, to be honest, I'm really touched by what you are saying because sometimes I'm, I mean, I'm also in the theater. Christina. Christina. I don't have anything to add. I just wrote you because I will take more time and I want to let my colleagues to react. But I just want to tell you that in the chat I wrote you an email that you can write to if you want to join us in our process of the team engagement to join the team ambassador across Europe community, because we are currently working on a new large scale cooperation process that we are shaping currently. So really feel free to join us or to have a look to the platform in this approach. And I really feel that we are in the same mindset and this makes me really happy. And my son, I bring with me back is the awareness that we are aware of the fact that we need to set a dialogue with a safe space for a dialogue with teenagers and young audience and young citizen and not that they are the object. And also what Pauline said about the engaging in this dialogue, artists that are creating for adults. This is the big community we need to reinforce and this awareness we need. And that we can use digital to reinforce that. I see kind of new, really a lot of new opportunities. So thank you. And yeah, let's meet together somewhere else. And since I feel that you have this mission and inspiration about youngsters, join us on Asipage International activities and have a look at them in the website. Thank you. Thank you, Christina. Bye-bye. Thanks a lot. Yeah. Anton, I just wanted to answer you and then hand over to Hannah, who wanted to comment, I think also. But yeah, I'm also in the theater scene since 20 years. And to be honest, I have the feeling that it's more challenging to visit or see or participate in theaters made by younger people. I'm really not like I have the feeling the conventional theater formats, even I know them and it's predictable. I know what happens. So I'm with you. But I'm also, of course, interested in young people like you, who are in the intersection of this participatory game theater thing. So I'm really looking forward also to see your work in the next days. And I want to hand over to Hannah. We don't have so much time left. Hannah, I would like to ask you also as like the last brief comment of everybody. Like maybe you can give us a very short message or what do you think? What is the biggest challenge we are facing right now? And but also combined maybe with some motivating words in the whole context of this young theater and also celebrating a little bit, I think we all miss or I miss theater a lot right now. And we are missing it. So there is there are challenges, but there are also a lot of hopeful thoughts and people and committed people here. So I would like to give over to all of you for like two minutes brief or one minute even words on this. Okay, thank you. I'll quickly respond to Anton and Pauline and then give my final positive. I think really what's a really interesting question for me is does age make a difference? I had a similar experience of Anton. I grew up through youth theater. I didn't really like school, but youth theater was great. I don't know why I became a teacher because I didn't like school, but maybe I was trying to make something positive out of my negative experiences. Working with school pupils, teenagers, we would, I was told by the school to put on a school play and you would take an adult text and they would expect to be told where to stand and this is for the parents and for an adult audience and we did it and they were quite good. But it was okay. I did much more participatory devising drama in the classroom and that was that was also had its successes, including with pupils that the school felt were just perhaps lost. But what was really interesting that I wanted to share and is part of my question about role models is the moment of real breakthrough and success was when I asked or arranged for my teenage students to create theater for a younger audience, for primary, for eight-year-old, for nine-year-olds and then their ideas, their creativity, their their confidence to actually do something not traditional, but actually be, you know, it suddenly it opened up new possibilities and that was completely the opposite to what I expected. Of course they were nervous, they wanted it to go well, but this was that this is something that I'm still reflecting on about what the age of the participants and the age of the audience clearly seems to be very meaningful. Anyway, to finish off, I think my the challenge, but I think this what we can make a positive difference is is to work with teachers and when going into schools and working with schools, not to let them hide. I've seen this. I've been into school as a practitioner and they've gone great, here are my children and they go and they hide in another classroom for the afternoon and they think great, she'll take care of them, but where I've had the success is where I've managed to bring the teacher in and they take part because they need to learn just as much as the young people who've had limited theater experience how it works, how the process feels and then they will carry that as a legacy after the project's finished. So I think and if we can bring, you know, work with teachers and work with schools rather than just providing for them, I think then we will get have much more success in terms of access, participation and this kind of shared space for new perspectives. So bring the teachers with you. Lala, maybe do you want to answer next? Sure. So, oh my god, I've learned a lot of new things today for this panel discussion. So I'm really thankful to be like involved in the dialogue with such respected and amazing professionals. I think that to relate back to Hannah as well a little, whether we are teachers, young people, practitioners, artists, whoever we are, I think the most important is that through theater and through culture and through art, we can grow and when you're doing, when you're doing a discussion, when you are doing a group project, whether that be a play or something completely different, it's important to bring everyone in and even if you don't see completely, I like try to find that middle ground and create, as I already said before, a safe place where you get challenges to be a bit pushed out of your comfort zone at the same time because we are all puzzle pieces and we might be completely different but if we are unapologetically ourselves, we can complete each other's puzzle pieces and something great can come out of it which makes us be our best selves and that is why I experience a lot through theater work. So really be unapologetically yourself and strive to be your best self to create something that will be meaningful to other people but for yourself as well. Thank you, Lala. There is also a comment from Marina from Cyprus which fits at this point. Marina says listening is the key issue. Young people ask for it. They need it. They adore being listened to and it is so useful to us all when making choices about changes and development. So from Marina, Pauline, I would hand over to you and your conclusion. Yeah, my conclusion is for now. I'm very much aware, as I said in my speech already, that as theater maker you create role models and you create or you create images, affirmative images and I think it's very important as youth theater makers to create good role models, especially for girls, not the role models that they are used or that is in a lot of culture already, but really emancipating feminist role models. And I think that in youth theater where you'll make your work for young people, especially girls, it's very, very important to get good role models. So I want to encourage all of us as grown-ups as theater makers to really dare to do some self-investigation and see where your unconscious prejudices and your maybe even racist bias that we all have somehow because we're conditioned like that by cultural images that we get all the time. Yeah, to question that and to become aware and to try to take responsibility for it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anton, do you want to say a couple of sentences at the end? Yeah, I'm very grateful for all your speeches or like because I think it's what Hannah said, like to try to get in the discussion with the teachers. I don't know, sometimes it's a trade-off to create a safe space and to have them in the same room. But yeah, I think it's a possibility to make it more sustainable. Your discussion, the thing that you want to try and you want to trigger into the classroom if they continue with the discussion maybe in the following weeks or so when they use your piece as well as a start-off for discussion could be very great and sustainable. So I'm into like trust them more as well and teachers get younger as well. Yeah, and I also am grateful for Poline's very diverse view of things and how to create the safe space for certain kind of marginalized groups. I think it's very important even to get them more, to participate, to feel them more invited to change the actors on the stage, to change the people that are directing, not me. And yeah, it's something that I'm eager and I also try to find a way to go and to find it. And as Lala said, I'm as well honored to be with you guys. And yeah, thanks a lot. So thank you, all of you. And of course, this is the conclusion for now. And we keep on discussing also on this festival with a lot of interesting program starting this afternoon and on the following days. I want to give at the end some samples from the program which you can watch today at 2 p.m. There is a symposium for theater educators, Aufbruch, important come together all theater professionals working in theater education, audience development and other respecting fields are warmly invited to participate, share their ideas and experiences today. The symposium is organized by Schauspielhaus Aktiv at Schauspielhaus Graz on the virtual festival platform Drama Digital. In this evening, you can also see or participate the Young Europe Performance Demo Crisis, which was also directed by Anton, and Rage by Deutsche Theater Berlin, which starts at 8.30 p.m. Central European Time Demo Crisis will start at 6.30 p.m. Central European Time. And there are in the next days school attendance in the mornings, performances in the evenings, table talks, for example, on Wednesday, and followed by the European Theater Convention International Theater Conference on Thursday and Friday. So explore the digital rendering of Schauspielhaus Graz for more performances and background showings on Drama Digital. And at the end, I want to thank, on behalf of the European Theater Convention, of course, to our speakers for their great contributions and commitments. The team from Schauspielhaus Graz, the partners from WholeRound for the live stream, Heidi Weili and Serge Rangoni, and of course, of course, the whole European Theater Convention team for organizing this festival by name, Theresa Haut, Nelly Gipkins, Kassiroma, Dunia Brugun and Ellen Gauthier. And we also liked the audience for following us today. So please enjoy the rest of the festival, remain committed and critical, and keep on celebrating theater and arts. So have a nice day, everybody.