 Hello everyone and welcome to Inside Leather History at Fireside Chat. I'm Doug O'Keefe, the host and producer of the chats, and we are a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. Today, I'm doing an interview with Graham Isbister, who's in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Occasionally the chats will do an interview with someone who's creating community and that's what Graham is doing. Welcome Graham to Inside Leather History at Fireside Chat. Hello and welcome. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Our pleasure. My pleasure. Okay. You are a community organizer and a leather man in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Tell us a little bit about Edmonton for people who may have never seen that. Yeah, absolutely. So Edmonton is, I mean, we have a population of a million people. That being said, we're a relatively conservative portion of Canada. We like to refer to ourselves, I guess, as the Texas of Canada. Oil is very much a big thing here. But getting back to my before comment is, yes, we are a bit of a conservative area within Canada. When you think leather community in Canada, the three major cities that kind of come to mind are Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. Edmonton does not come up in that. That being said, I'm really wanting to create that space in Edmonton and also Alberta, given our population is small relative to some of those other markets, knowing that I also would like to partner with Alberta as a province and not just limit ourselves to Edmonton. In terms of sort of the kink community, I'm going to call it a work in progress. So it's connecting the community right now and starting to build that up and trying to show that there's a positive safe space for everyone to express themselves. And that's sort of, I would say, step one in my mission right now. Before we go too far, tell us a little bit about your circumstances growing up and how you grew up in that environment. For those of you who don't know, I'm 31 right now. Growing up in Edmonton, this has always been home for me. And I would say I was probably blessed with some very progressive parents and a progressive family that wanted me to embrace who I was at a very young age and unapologetically be who I am. So I am forever thankful that that's how I grew up and probably shaped me as the leather man I am today and the person I am in my regular life. Tell me a little bit about coming out. Coming out for me was, so I first came out as a gay man and then I came out as a leather man. And coming out as a gay man was relatively an easy experience for myself. It was funny when I came out to my parents and my brother all at the same time. My brother looked at me and was like, yeah, I mean you. I was like, awesome. Okay, perfect. And it was like, we just kind of went on with our day. It was not this like, horrible story or this very traumatic ending. It was literally set in the living room on Halloween night because that's how everyone was at home. And we went on with life. So it was a very accepting story. My family is very accepting of me. And it was a very anticlimactic story to say the least as a coming out story as a gay man. How did you even know about homosexuality in the gay community prior to that? Yeah. So I came out at a quite a young age and I'm blessed that I've always grown up with technology, I would say. So you start to sort of Google things and sort of figure that out. I think that's how I figured that out myself. And I'm like, yes, that's who I am. Or that's what I associate with. And not wanting to harbor that for any longer than I had to. Growing up in a family where it was very much accepting to be who you were. It was just natural to say, yeah, I'm a gay man. And that would just seem very fitting to myself. What kinds of things were you finding on the internet at that time? Yeah. So I think it was synonymous with sort of my leather self. So if I sort of translate, you know, what did I know about leather versus being a gay man? I knew I had a love for or a love or a desire for leather before I even knew what sex or gender or anything like that was. I always knew that I liked leather and in sort of, you know, googling leather pictures and leather images and leather as a male body image, you sort of deviate down a path as Google would have it. Probably wasn't Google at the time, but it's Google today. And you sort of sort of funnel down the stream and you're like, oh, interesting, this intrigues me and I like this. And I think that sort of started me down the path to say I have a like for leather, but I also really like this leather male image. Oh, I feel like I'm associated very much with that. Oh, I'm pretty sure I'm gay as well. So the leather actually definitely came before coming up as a gay man, but I enjoyed the leather before I probably even knew what sex was. Well, I know that's how it worked out. When you were looking at the internet, what kinds of images were you finding? Traditional images, maybe of people on a motorcycle or were you finding some of the more risque images of Leatherman doing fun things? Very good question. It definitely started out as leather clothing. It started out with, you know, looking for leather jackets or leather pants. And then you start saying, you know, men in leather pants and men in leather jackets. And then, you know, searches would have it that you'd find them a little bit more of a risque image with someone in boots. And then it would sort of was a domino effect from there. So it started out as a very much a clothing of leather search that expanded to a male leather search. And then you realize, oh, there's, you know, leather erotic photos. And then you sort of go down that road. And that domino effect happened rather quickly. But I definitely associated myself with looking for more of that leather uniform and leather officer look versus the biker look. Not that I don't like the biker look, but I definitely had an aversion to the uniform first as evidenced by what I'm wearing today. I very much enjoyed the leather uniformed officer look as luck would have it. And that sort of formulated my search for the Leatherman that way. And then I ended up finding out, you know, there were more than just uniform. There was a whole fantasy fetish leather erotic view to that. And that sort of formed the rest of my searches thereafter. Any surprises? Oh, I'm sure there were surprises that happened along the way. Ones that stick out for me along that journey. I mean, nothing that probably hasn't really happened to anybody else. I guess surprises were the fact that I, you know, in that earlier onset search, there were some, you know, female images that would pop up. And I was like, no, not for me. Let's go back to the man. And I think really helped shape the fact that I was definitely a gay man and that I very much enjoyed that visual. So I think that was very much an early discovery for myself. It wasn't it wasn't alarming. It was just an early discovery that I had of myself and one that I would later aspire to be and one that I would hold near and dear to my heart for the rest of my life. I would say I haven't I haven't given that up, but I don't think I will. So I think that's been something that has been identified with and something that has shaped me as the person I am today. You told me when you were young, you were able to travel quite a bit and explore a few things that way. Tell us about that. Yeah, so we were very fortunate as a family to be able to travel as a family at a young age. So we got to experience lots of different cultures and adventure. And that was sort of bred into us as a family and as kids. So it wasn't it wasn't an anomaly for me to watch to travel on my own as soon as I could. One of the first trips I took on took as an as an adult was to New York City, actually, I had just turned 18. Me and a friend went he's very much straight. We went to New York City for was four days. And one afternoon we sort of broke up and we did our own things one for the museum. And I was like, I want to go check out this Leatherman New York City store. So I went and found it. I knew where it was. There were no smartphones back then. I had a razor, so I had to get out my map and figure out where it was in New York City like a very big tourist. And I got to the store and I never went in. But I was enamored by the store and what it stood for just from street level. I would later go on and kick myself that I didn't go in on that trip. But I went in in future journeys to New York City. But that that experience and going to the store, even just standing on the outside of it was overwhelming in all the right ways. Yes, I didn't go into the store and I can admit that now. And I wish I would have. But it was that that overwhelming desire, that overwhelming sense of community, community I even felt from street level. So I am forever grateful and thankful for for that store for being as public as it was for a young Edmonton boy who was wanting to find his leather self. That was still a very positive experience for me and one that I I share fondly and one that I, you know, helped shape me as an individual. What did you hope you would have found if you had gone in? That's a good question. Back then, I would have hoped that I would have found when I walked into that store, an array of leather clothing and gear, not so much, you know, BDSM sex gear. At that age, I would have hoped to have found, you know, a lot of, you know, unique leather clothing, which I know they do have. They have everything and then some in that store now. And I think if I would have went and I would have been overwhelmed again, in probably all the right ways and I wouldn't have known what to buy. I would have wanted it all. But when I went when I finally did go into that store, I was 21, I believe, when I went back to New York and it was everything that I had imagined and then some that things that I had been into other sort of leather gear shops around the world since then. So I knew what I was expecting when I walked in. But given that I was 18 at the time, I would have hoped and wanted, you know, an array of leather clothing that you probably couldn't have found anywhere else. You mentioned you had gone to other places. Other shops, where were those? Yeah, so, I mean, some of the earlier ones that I would have went to were Northbound Leather in Toronto at their old location on Young and St. Nicholas. So that was one of my very first shops that I ever went into and one that I will still share fondly of today, most of my years from Northbound. Also, having gone into regulation in London, that was another very first one for myself. And Fetishfreak, actually, which is a very local one to London as well. So those are some of my very firsts. I've actually never been into Mr. S in San Francisco, I'll figure. I've never been there myself. So that's unfortunately one of the ones that's not on my list, but have been into some of the other shops in Europe. But why were you comfortable going into the shops in Toronto and London, but not New York? I was older then. I was wiser. I wasn't 18 anymore. And as I had grown, you know, I was two years after that experience when I went to Europe for an extended period of time, I just felt very comfortable. One of the very, very positive experiences or early experiences in the leather community that I had was actually in London. I went to Compton's. It was a very social experience. There was no kinky sex that was had or any any sort of huge fantasy, if you will, that happened that afternoon. But I will share that. And that really did help shape me and who I was that day. I went there in no gear. There were leathermen that were there and they just sort of embraced this young Canadian bloke that just happened to walk into Compton's and was clearly very curious about them and who they were. And they I don't even know their names, unfortunately. I didn't get them. But it was just an afternoon of like sharing a few beers and just chatting. And they shared the world with me and allowed me to ask questions in a very safe space. And I'm forever grateful for that. That was 11 years ago. The internet was very much a thing back then. But it's not like it was today. Social gatherings were in that sense were very much part of our community on an ongoing basis. And that one experience, I still feel very strongly with today. And when I started talking about, you know, building a community here, I visualized that experience as a driver for how I want our community in Edmonton to be a very safe space with a social aspect to it where you can truly be yourself in all your glory and that would be a huge win for me and a sense of accomplishment. Coming back to Compton's, you indicated that they shared the world with you and enabled you to ask questions. Tell us more about that. What kinds of things did you learn? What did you ask? The first questions I asked were, you know, where do you get your gear? Where do you get your leather folding? Like, I've never seen leather pants like that before. And that's where regulation came up. And then I subsequently went to regulation that after. And we started talking about, you know, it starts very, I want to say, innocent around, you know, what are you wearing and leather folding? And then the questions are coming up, well, you know, how do you have any fun in leather? Have you had any sex in leather? And my answer was no. And, you know, the conversation then started going down a bit of a BDSM route. And I was very intrigued by that and enamored. And I was like, that sounds very interesting. I could probably get on board with that. And there was there was no difficult question that I couldn't ask that they wouldn't they wouldn't answer it seemed like. And there was also no pressure to do anything. Like it was it was a very safe environment. And when I look on, you know, so my journey is a Leatherman versus my journey as, you know, a leather dom or into the BDSM world was probably spurred on by a bit of that conversation when, you know, you see innocent handcuffs on someone and you think, well, I could use those on someone and have some fun that way. I would say that would be their early onset to, you know, some some very fun leather experiences that I would go on to have. From that afternoon, what was the most profound thing you learned? The most profound thing that I learned was be your true self and be humble. And I think maybe that's maybe that's an interesting comment to say, but I think it it really resonates with me is to be humble and be true to who you are in every sense of the term, because you only have one life to live. And if you're going to. You're going to. Closet that side of yourself or be arrogant towards someone about, you know, what they're wearing or what they ought to be. You're doing yourself and the community, no justice. And I think that has always stuck with me in more than just the leather community, but also who I am as an individual is to be humble, to be who you are and be encouraging and create that safe space. Because I was forwarded that opportunity at a very young age and had it been a very negative experience, I don't know how it would have shaped me. Like I said, I wasn't from there. They did not know me. I did not know them. It would have been very easy for them to carry on with their afternoon, drinking their beer and saying piss off like, I don't want to talk to you. But that was that's also not the English way either. So again, I'm forever grateful for that. And I will always look fondly on that on that afternoon. Did anyone ever express concern that you were coming into the community very young? Yeah, I would say so. I know there were some experiences about that. You know, so much young as in maybe you weren't wearing the proper gear, which would translate into, well, you're also young. I would say a lot of people have, you know, I would say a lot of people have always commented on the fact that I have a very low bluff number. I was very fortunate to have been given that number when I registered, but I can assure you that the original pictures that I sent in when I became a bluff member were not this. My year collection was a lot smaller back then and a lot less uniform. I met probably the minimum requirement, but I was a very confident young man when I signed up to be a bluff member, and I'm glad I did. Please tell us, please tell the audience about the bluff. Some people know what that is. Yeah, good point. So bluff is an international membership for, I would say, the Leather-Fetish community. They are, if you ever see anything on social media where it's B-L-U-F, chances are that individual belongs to the bluff brotherhood and family. They're encouraged to be who they are in every sense of the term, building the community. It's Leather uniform and breaches. I think that I'm wearing them presently right now and then some. And I would say, again, it's really about identifying, connecting with the community with a very heavy Leather uniform emphasis. Those numbers typically mean when you joined, although mine is not indicative of that. So the higher the number is, chances are that's when they would have joined. And it's just a unique identifier to connect with the community on an international scale. There's also other local groups within different cities. Like I've belonged to Bluff Montreal. So there's a Montreal group that meets monthly. There's other groups around the world that meet on a cyclical basis. And when you go to some of the international events, chances are there's going to be a bluff meetup while you're there. So it's always nice to see those individuals when you're at those events. You said your bluff number is very low. What is it? Yeah, so I'm bluffing, too, which would probably indicate that I should have joined right on the early stages of bluff. I did not. And when I was reading up on bluff and the experiences that it was sharing and having chat with other people, when I was registering, I truly believed in everything that they spoke for. And then when you read their page and the about them, I was very much felt connected to that. So when I signed up, I gave a financial donation, and I still do. And I was, I guess, rewarded with that donation with a small number. That was not my intent. I just, it's a nonprofit group. And I know how much work goes into creating those groups and those spaces and wanted to show my appreciation and was rewarded with a small number, I guess, which was very nice of them. How did you even learn about it? How did you find it? Instagram. Instagram is a really good place for that. Again, internet. You see everyone quoting these bluff numbers. And you're like, well, what is this? And then you start talking to random people and like, you start talking to random people. You start talking to random people and like, well, this is what the group is. And then you go and search for it. And you're like, oh, here's bluff. Oh, I can't access it. I got to be a member. How do I become a member? I'm also a very research inclined individual. So to me, I will research anything. And as I was doing some of my earlier research, I was like, yep, this is exactly who I identify with. And do I meet the minimum requirements in my leather gear? Arguably, yes, I do. And I'm a very confident individual. So I signed up relatively quickly. And I have kind of the rest of history with that one. What do you feel is the most beneficial element that bluff has afforded you? A sense of community, for sure. Living in Edmonton, I think, so expanding to Alberta. I think there's four of us that belong to bluff in Alberta. So a very small number. We have four million people here and there's four of us that belong to bluff. So you can deduce how small our community is here. But bluff really gave me a sense of connection to an early stage to be like, I belong to this community, even though there's no one really in my city that belongs to bluff. And again, that sense of community stemmed back to again, my early visit to Compton. I guess it was a very positive experience. And I felt like I was a sense of the community and I wasn't. I wasn't challenged. I wasn't belittled. I was just accepted for who I was. And again, it was that experience. I was like, absolutely, this is who I am. And I want to be this and then some. I want to be all of this. And I want to experience this for everything that it stands for. My first bluff meetup was in Montreal, which for Edmonton is actually a very far journey. It's like a six hour flight. So it's quite far from Edmonton. But yes, that was my very first bluff meetup. And it was a very overwhelmingly positive experience. There were actually quite a few of us that day that had never been to a bluff meetup before. There was, I believe, four of us that kind of thus was our first time at a bluff meetup in Montreal. For those of you who don't know where it is, it's at Listad. It's not at Eagle in Montreal. And again, very social experience. It was a bunch of guys in leather gear that looked sexy as hell in all the right ways, sharing a couple of drinks and socializing and getting to know one another and sharing experiences. That was all it was. And again, I'm forever grateful for that. I'm very much still connected and friends with a bunch of that community to this day after that meetup. You said it was overwhelming in all the right ways. For example, how? What? Oh, I mean, I mean, walking into a room of like 50 sexy guys in full leather, I mean, how is that not overwhelming? I was just, I was enamored by the audience and the room that was there and just the smell of everyone in their leather. That was overwhelming in all the right ways. And then just the opportunity to have a conversation. I mean, no one there knew who I was and coming from Edmonton, they were all shocked. Oh, an Edmonton boy is coming to Montreal in leather. What is life in Edmonton like? I think they were very curious about me in Edmonton more than I was of them in Montreal. So that was really interesting. Again, they're like, well, how do you live in Edmonton? And what is life like there? It must be really hard to be a leather man. And in some aspects it is. We don't have a space like that here. We don't have at that time where there was no real at visible leather community in Edmonton or in Alberta really. So I largely connected with those individuals on an online basis. And it was those, that experience and others alike that really got me thinking to say, you know, going to all these cities is wonderful and I'm able to travel and I'm afforded that opportunity. But why can't I build that in Edmonton in some capacity in a capacity that makes sense for Edmonton or Alberta? And that has always been in the back of my mind, which really challenged me to start creating a leather group for Edmonton. And I'm happy to report it is in the infancy stages right now, but it is being created. We're having the group is called Edmonton Leatherman. We've walked on all of our social media. We would have had our first event on Friday, but COVID has somewhat denied us that ability, but we're forging ahead with connecting the community here. So that really challenged me to want to build that community locally here in whatever capacity it is. Knowing that that community does exist. It existed at one time in the early 2000s and it has dissolved unfortunately, but I'm looking to rebuild it in a new fashion or whatever that might look like. What do you know of its previous incarnation from years ago? There was a title event in Edmonton. I have messaged the title holder or one of the title holders. I don't really know where it all existed. The gay bars of the time are no longer in existence in Edmonton. We have now one gay bar and at the time there were three, I believe, in different locations. Locations where it was held and the individuals who were part of that, it seemed very disjointed, unfortunately. There's not a lot of history that has been left for my generation to pick up on. So the little bits and pieces that I've got from individuals that I've chatted with around the community, that's kind of what I've yielded. I did reach out to, like I said, one particular individual hoping to maybe connect with him and try and build something up and fortunately that hasn't been responded to at all, but that's fine. I will forward ahead myself. And like I said, build a community that is for 2022 and onward. So it might have a different flavor and a different outcome in the end, but one that hopefully will last the test of time is the goal. Now, you've had the privilege of being able to see leather communities abroad, leather communities in Montreal, in Toronto, other major cities. From those communities and from those experiences, what are the most valuable pieces you're bringing to the creation of a community in Edmonton? Yeah, that's a good question. I would say for starters, having a realistic expectation. Edmonton is not any of those cities. Those cities have had established communities for decades and ours arguably is not visible if there is one. So I'm trying to build a community from the ground up. So that in itself is a challenge. So having a realistic expectation of connecting and creating a safe space would be ideally number one. People need to feel that they're accepted and are in a safe place to be who they are before they can open up further. And I was given that opportunity as a young age and I want to give that to someone else or others alike. From there, I think the journey is kind of endless. I mean, I would like to have opportunities where there's social gatherings, fun kinky sex gatherings and everything in between. I think the leather community, there's no mystery here that we do enjoy a very good time. And would like to have an opportunity and events that would sort of cover an array of expectations, everything from a social gathering to an amazing leather pink experience and everything in between. So the long journey would be to sort of create a space like that, but the community needs to be connected and feel safe first. And being a visible leatherman myself as often as I can and showing the world that it's showing the world and showing the city that it's not as scary as maybe some people think it is. And the community is very, very accommodating. Like I have gone out like this in numerous occasions to various places in Edmonton and no one bats an eye. You might get a couple looks. I've had a couple horn honks that are very excited to see me, but never a bad experience. No one has ever questioned, you know, why are you wearing that? Oh, you look ugly, complete opposite. So again, I've had a very positive experience. So I want to create that for other people. What places are you visiting in your leather? Pubs, I've been to the grocery store, restaurants. I mean, the gay bar obviously, that's a given. What is your gay bar in Edmonton? So our gay bar is Evolution. They're right downtown. It's our only gay bar. It's more of a gay nightclub than anything. Fortunately, we don't really have a gay pub like we would in even Calgary, say or Toronto, but they have created a very good and connected LGBTQ space. There's a lot of other LGBTQ positive spaces and or where they want to bring the community. I think that's that's the difference of Edmonton is like we're a very open and accepting city. So we don't need to have a lot of dedicated spaces because we're just accepted everywhere, which is again a very different it's a different era that we're in where we're accepted everywhere. So we don't have to go to a dedicated gay space because we're accepted everywhere. So going to a local brewery downtown, I've gone like this. People are wonderful. They they like what I look like and they'll serve me another beer. So it's it's not a negative experience. You you mentioned Calgary a moment ago. You've said that's very different from Edmonton. Tell me a bit about that. Yeah, I mean, so Edmonton itself, we we don't really have a gay neighborhood. Everyone sort of lives all over the city. There is no central place for, you know, the gay group or gay community to be. That's just the nature of Edmonton or very decentralized that way, whereas Calgary has still maintained some of that community aspect within their sub downtown core. So they have a neighborhood called Beltline. That's typically where you're going to say that's where the LGBTQ community largely resides. That's a good demographic there. It's relative. That's where their two bars are. They have one nightclub and one hub, although the second floor of the pub is a bit of a nightclub as well. So they have a couple of two unique spaces that they have. So they've sort of diversified in that regard and spoken to more than just the nightclub community. So for that, they're a bit of a unique city. I would say they're also a bit more international. They're a lot closer to the mountains. So they naturally just get a lot more tourists that come through their city. They have a lot more. They're a bigger population than we do. Edmonton is as far from all of that. So we don't get a ton of international tourists that come here and then with the leather community that not a lot of people come to Edmonton. We're not a huge draw like Calgary is. So for those few reasons Edmonton and Calgary are very different. You've mentioned social media a number of times. Is that your primary conduit to trying to gather other kink folk, other leather folk from all around the Edmonton region? Yeah, for starters, that is essentially where it starts with is through social media. We live in an era of technology. So working with it, not against it is sort of my motto. That's how I've been connected to the community and that's how I'm going to reach out to the community. Large is through social media. I also think a lot of people are comfortable with being behind their phone first and through social media lens and then presenting themselves in the public thereafter. I know I was and I would imagine that speaks largely to a lot of individuals. So in addition to sort of my own, so I have a palette of vanilla Instagram and my kink Instagram. Both are kind of synonymous. So they both play off of one each other connecting the Edmonton Leatherman as a group through social media is sort of the biggest draw factor. So doing so through Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and our website will be our high traffic areas to connect the community first and then hoping to, like I say, create a safe public space for then people to connect in person thereafter. What responses are you getting at the moment? Are you receiving a lot of interest via your media? I would say so. Again, it's very early days. So I would say within a year of launch, if we have a group of 40 Leatherman that are connected, I would call that a huge success. So quantifying success here, that's what I would call a huge success. And I would say as of right now, we're on our track to meet that goal within our first year. Again, event aside, I'm sure we will have some events this year coming up. Unfortunately, not right to this moment. So we'll have to sort of roll the punches that way. But again, leveraging social media as an example also helps connect the community. So in December, instead of getting the group together, I hosted an Instagram live session where everyone could just watch me and ask questions. I did so right by the Christmas tree and sort of tried to again connect the community in that regard. So not being defeated, but trying to leverage the opportunity in any way it presents. How was that received? Oh, good. It was wonderful. I had about 16 local guys that joined throughout my hour and a half chat session and given it was right before Christmas, I was pretty happy about that. And then there was about 200 international that probably joined throughout that chat. So yeah, it was, it was a wonderful draw. I had a plethora of questions that people were asking me such as, where do I get my gear? What's your gear like? Do you have a dungeon? I'm working on that. Yes, I want to not home dungeon. It's coming. What is my husband like? Is he into kink? No, he's not. That is my thing. How does that relationship work? So yeah, I pull through our questions right from A to Z and I'm pretty much an open book. So you can kind of ask me anything. I do want to ask about your husband because you two are on very different points of view with this. How do you two manage a relationship like that? Open communication. If I'm going to talk about one thing when it comes to any relationship, you have to have good communication. And that's paramount and key. Kevin, my husband is not a Leatherman or a kink individual like I am. That's definitely my thing. And it really just starts with open communication and open dialogue between the two of us. And I really can't stress that enough from there. It really comes up to, you know, what, what are we looking for? What are we wanting? We're very fortunate. One of the reasons why we still like to live in Edmonton, although our families are here is our cost of living isn't atrocious. We have a fairly good life here that allows us to invest in things that we want. My Leather and Gear collection being one of them. It is not a cheap fetish. So we are able for me to invest kind of how I see fit in that regard. And I'm forever grateful for that. You mentioned when we were preparing for this interview, you mentioned you have a fetish for gloves. Yeah, tell us more about that. Yes, absolutely. So we're going to pair right now. Tough gloves. One of my favorites or favorite brand. So I would say when we start talking about leather gear in general, my very first love or fetish was for leather gloves. I would that is where it started. And from there, it was a domino effect thereafter. And I you're going to get my attention. A tight pair of leather gloves is probably your best bet. The sure way to not get my attention is either not have them or have them be ill-fitting. So that's just my own personal thing. I think at last count, I had 120 pairs. Yeah, it's a fetish for sure. It's a love of mine. It was always my first love and first desire. And from there, my Gear collection grew after my leather gloves. I'm gloves tight on Instagram. So I associate everything with sort of that persona of myself. You're a very sex positive individual. You are very much an extrovert. How do people react to that? I'm sure it probably comes off as intimidating at some points because I am a very confident individual in probably every sense of the term in myself. And I do try and be cognizant to the fact that I do come off maybe overzealous and confident and an extrovert, but I'm doing that in the most sincere way possible or the most sincere way I can perceive myself. Again, I think it comes out to the fact of how I was raised. We were always raised as being very confident self-aware individuals and be who we are. And that has carried through my entire life in all aspects. I think well, that's probably one of the most common misconceptions is in me is that I am so overconfident that I can't be approached and or maybe I come across as you know, overconfident and you know, how would I approach someone like that? And I think that's why I like hosting Instagram live videos and showing a visual of myself that is the true me because I think it sort of helps break down that barrier and that perception that oh, he is very accommodating and he is really wanting to build a community because that is really what I am about at the exact same token. I really don't give a shit what people think of me to be completely honest. If someone and the grocery store said to me, you look awful in my leather gear, I would say I didn't ask you for your opinion and keep walking because I truly don't care what you think of me. I have and will wear leather pants to the office not going to wear a leather uniform not because I don't want to it's just a very professional setting and I do keep part of my life separate. But I'm not going to hide that side of myself and if you don't like it. That's your problem not mine and I recognize the fact that that is a truly unique part of who I am and not everyone possesses that same level of confidence and I hope my confidence is perceived as a community builder not a roadblock. What do you see for your community in the next couple of years? For example, what kinds of events? What kinds of activities? Yeah, absolutely. I would say in the immediate short term so year to two years would be largely very social very much to connect the community again in that very safe space Edmonton is not like other cities we don't have we don't have a sex club. We don't have a we don't have a bar with a dark room. Unfortunately, that's not here in Edmonton. So I have to kind of work with what I got here. Although other cities have those spaces and they're wonderful and I'm jealous of them. So I think being realistic on the outcome is we're going to be very largely social with the exception that maybe there will be some demos. There'll be some light bondage demos that happen whether that's with rope or submission demos that are happening or safe sex discussions. In the long term, one of the big successes that I would love to see happen for say Edmonton and expand to Alberta is again leveraging what we have and we have a beautiful mountain community here that isn't that far and would love to do a leather getaway into the mountains where we all charter a bus and there's 50 leather guys that have a bit of a call it a convention. We all talk about the knitting conventions that happen that would happen in Bath or in Camor or in Jasper and really leverage a beautiful piece of scenery that we have in our backyard. So I think that would be a huge success in the future that I would like to work towards. Are you able to coordinate with your local bar or another that is welcoming in order to secure a space? Yeah, locally, we definitely have those bases like evolution as an example is very one that is wanting to work with us and work towards building that community. So no questions there. We have another wonderful local, we have quite a few local breweries, but one in particular that I'm frequent quite often has said, you know, we would love to do a partner with you and do a private event. And again, it would be very social, but it would be a bunch of leather guys that come together and have a meeting together at a brewery. We also have a wonderful cigar lounge. So I have reached out to them and said, you know, would you be interested in having a bit of a private event? They have a private space in their cigar lounge that we could probably rent. So we wouldn't be big enough to run the whole space, but a private section of the bar or the cigar room would be another again opportunity for us to leverage. So those are some of the events or gatherings that I'm sort of have in mind in the coming year coming two years that I would like to work towards. Again, cigar lounge and brewery are not, you know, a gay bar complete gay space, but they're very accommodating, very welcoming. Very welcoming. I think that that's the difference in Edmonton that I find is we have a lot of spaces that if you just ask or just talk to you, they're very accommodating. They want to work with the community. They're not off putting, but they're just not a completely dedicated LGBTQ space. Now someone who may want to connect with you on social media, how can they do that? Yeah, absolutely. Um, so my, like particularly myself, the best way to connect with me would be through my Instagram account, love tight, um, because it's open to everybody. You have Instagram, you can access it. Um, I do have recon and I do have love, but you have to be part of those apps or part of those communities. Um, so you can definitely reach out to me there, but you also have to be part of that community first in order to find me. So I would say the best way to reach me would be likely through Instagram. Um, again, cause it's a public public space. My domain is open. You can search it. Um, and that's probably the best way to get a hold of me. That being said, I do have boundaries with Instagram. Um, I have a lot of, I have a lot of followers and a lot of DMs that come through. So if you message me and it takes me a couple of days to respond to you. Just be patient because I do get a lot of traffic on my Instagram account. So I do want to connect the community and I do want to build it up, but um, I also have to manage all aspects of my life as well. Sure. Graham Isbeester, I have to thank you for sharing something new in the community, seeing positive space growth in the community. And I sincerely hope that Edmonton and the surroundings will grow and be a more welcoming and leather friendly situation. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I think, um, those are all outcomes that I want to achieve and hope to achieve both in the short and in the long term. I also feel like when we look at, you know, other cities in the international community, I do think this is going to be maybe our new normal. Um, as the LGBTQ community is largely accepted around the world, some of our spaces dissolve to be open to all. And in some aspects that hurts the community, but if we can reimagine our community in a different way, I think we'll still stay very connected. And I think that's, that's sort of the outlook that I'm taking is this is a new era and we have to change as it's 2022 and let's sort of build that community in a different way. Thank you very much for an amazing interview for Inside Leather History at Fireside Chats.