 Okay, so here we are at the front of Morrison's we've got the vegan pasties and the vegan sausage rolls We're going to hand them out to the public and see what they think about red tractor approved So if you can see they're on concrete floors. This is a factory farm So Morrison's put this stamp of approval on there, but these pastries here actually contain no animal products at all So there's no meat or anything in these No, this is a gas chamber I put the pigs in there I hope you've seen this standard before, red tractor Yeah, my boyfriend Dad's actually a big farmer Is he? Here you go mate, are you a farmer? Uh, relatively, yeah, actually What does this mean, this red tractor approved? It applies a little on the red tractor, traceability Standards and stuff Yeah I started adjusting this agriculture degree here Did you? Yeah Wow Well this farm here is Moserow's Pigary, sorry Yeah In Blackpool And this was red tractor approved and this applies Morrison's here Yeah Yeah Yeah, see I've worked on a pig farm like this before And it's tough because it's not necessarily nice like that But at the same time That window of opportunity where The red tractors, you have your area And you have your set amount of pigs so you can have any of that area It only gets like that where it's at the very end And it is not nice to see, it's horrible to see But at the same time Pigary like that doesn't make any money unless it's like that And that's how it is, we either have to They have to cut corners to meet demand Yeah exactly, so the pigs go into their pen when they're like that And when they're small It's fine because they have loads of space And it's just the last couple of weeks where they get so big And I think it's horrible as well I think it's They have like They bite their tails because they're stressed It's not very nice at all But at the same time it's just a few weeks They're suffering in there They are, they are And like that when their back ends get infected like that They should be culled straight away And that certainly is a far away work Should kill them and put them out of their misery And it's horrible to see like that And the far away work certainly wasn't that bad So people who see this People who see this right This red tractor How can they be sure that they're not getting this Because this was red tractor approved True, very true It should be maybe more stringent checks But Is it ever going to Are you ever going to be able to regulate it? I would say this is an exception as opposed to the As opposed to the standard Yeah I would Well these are vegan So they don't have any animal products in them at all So we can definitely be sure that they're You didn't like yours? Did you like yours? You can take one to try if you want later I'll try to take you What type of farming are you going to get into? I like all types of farming Or just plant agriculture or Both I think for plant agriculture To be sustainable You have to have animal agriculture with it as well Especially going forwards when we're We're not going to have the use of the chemicals That we've had in the past We've got no effective insecticide in farming We've got one insecticide license That's completely ineffective Like 80 to 90% So you think we need animal agriculture To sustain plant farming? The only way we're going to be able to Lead a growing population for the next 100 years Is it on meat? No, it's not necessarily on meat But meat is going to have to be a part of it Because crop farming doesn't work sustainably Without animal manure What about permaculture? Not just animal manure As in you need it for controlling weeds And systems because we're not going to have the insecticide What about crop circulation with plant farms? Can't you circulate crops? We've been doing that for years And we rely too heavily We rely too heavily on chemicals like that Do you think we should continue this Because otherwise we won't have plants to eat? Is that what you're saying? Absolutely not, no I just said to you I think this is an exception rather than the rule Yeah, it's an exception this is I'm saying that's not normality now 97% or high 90% of pigs in the UK Factory farms I understand that But I'm saying that case study you've got there Is not the general I worked on intensive pig farm And it was nothing like that Oh really? I've been to some that look a bit better But I've also been to ones that look a bit worse So why do you choose to be kept nice to them? Have you seen the slaughterhouse though? The gas chambers? No Could that ever be nice? The slaughterhouse? You know what they gas? I do But a very small number of gas We generally use stun and slit Stun and slit? They're throat? Yeah You think that's better? What do you think is better? Absolutely stun and slit Have you seen gas chamber footage? Yeah And what did you think of it? I think it's traumatic but it's quick Traumatic I think it's traumatic for us to see But I think it's For them to experience what do you mean? How do you feel about that? Well they don't have a clue what's going on They don't have a clue? Absolutely not, no I think you're delusional if you think they do have a clue You think that they don't have a clue that they're being gassed in here? Absolutely not They may look it But they're screaming and suffering in there? Hear that? But that's not because they're traumatic because they're being gassed That's traumatic because there's just lots of them in there They only started screaming when they're at the bottom? I don't think that's the case I've heard I don't think that's the case Do you think I'm delusional if I think they're suffering in that gas chamber? Absolutely, yeah I'm delusional I'm delusional I assume they're using carbon dioxide Have you seen a human get killed by carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide? I've never witnessed a person in a gas chamber like that But I daresay that'd be true It's no different whether it's in a gas chamber or not in a gas chamber No If you see humans that suffocate from CO2 or carbon monoxide poisoning It's the classic case with carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide poisoning People, it's the home killer People sit down their homes and then they're dead without realising it Yeah Most pigs in Australia are standing in gas chambers People think these pigs gently fall asleep But the opposite is true They struggle violently It's like being choked under water until you fall unconscious First thing I felt when I entered the gas chamber was my eyes and nostrils burning intensely What the industry don't want us to know is that water and high levels of carbon dioxide perform carbonic acid on their eyes and every surface So when the pigs inhale, even their lungs, throat, nose and mouth become acidic In their last minutes these pigs are burning from the inside out Carbon monoxide is different to carbon dioxide stunning But it's the same, both of them kill the same way It's the suffocation So do you think it's ethical to... It would be ethical to carbon dioxide gas humans against their will It's not... I'm not going to justify this You're not using it... Do you think pigs have will to live? You're not using good arguments on that No, but do you think it's ethical to gas chamber pigs? Yes Absolutely I do What if we didn't gas chamber them and let them live? Didn't breed them into existence, didn't use them for food, would that be more ethical? That's just absolutely ridiculous because we're an omnivorous species Oh really? Yes we are Do we have... We have canine teeth, that's a meat eating meat Otherwise you wouldn't have canine teeth Canine teeth They're real canines Have you seen a real carnivorous canine? They're massive, big But that's because we're omnivorous, not omnivorous But how do you eat your meat cooked on a barbeque? That's not how we've evolved You're completely discarding evolution my man Why is heart disease the number one killer of human beings? We overeat meat, we do overeat meat Real omnivores don't develop heart disease from eating their natural diet That's ridiculous, of course they do, we just aren't aware of it I completely agree with you on the fact that we need to reduce our meat We need to change our farming system and we need to have better farming standards I completely agree with you I'm happy to talk about that What about sustainability, you talked about that How much water and food do animals need to... Reducing animal produce intake is a vital part of sustainability Of water use, land use I completely agree with you, but I will not sit here and have a debate with you And listen to you raise completely irrational arguments about... Pig suffering in gas chambers It's not suffering, it's a completely... Well they're definitely suffering in here They're definitely suffering in here And I've said that's an exceptional case An exceptional case Would you like that? You're talking to agricultural students Yeah, but I've seen many of these investigations We've got thousands of hours of footage of animals and farms like this across the UK I've probably been in more farms than you have my friend I don't think you have Of course he hasn't worked for Morrison, he's trying to down Morrison No, we want to promote Morrison This is from Morrison's We're promoting Morrison's here You're also attacking Red Tractor Yeah, because this is not... This is absolutely disgraceful I don't think that's disgraceful Do you actually work for Morrison's? Because that's putting their food up If you're not promoting this Well, I'm promoting this I'm promoting their product here That's fine, but I'm just saying You don't actually work for Morrison's I'm demoting this because that's... Do you agree that that's disgusting? What you need to be doing instead of demoting that Promoting ethical projects You need to be fighting for that to have improved standards By demoting that, you're saying Let's get rid of the only real body that regulates how animals are produced How can you... It's a vegan pasty from Morrison's What you need to do is instead of... How do you improve throat slitting? How do you improve throat slitting? First of all, you need to be fighting against Halal Where there's no stun whatsoever Why can't I fight both? Second of all, when you stun You touch and it's done I've been in a slaughterhouse while they're doing stun instead I've done home slaughter pigs at home So you kill pigs yourself? Yeah, absolutely I raise pigs myself as well There's no issue with that I'm going to go because you're not arguing Rashi I'd be happy to sit here and argue if you argue Rashi I'm not going to accept killing animals as ethical That's my position I'm not going to accept that That's just how it works You're saying lions are inethical Lions live in a survival situation They have to kill the tiny bugs that eat very pesticides I think when you talked about bugs and things we can't avoid Walking around, you might step on an ant But I think that's different to legitimately slitting an animal's throat When we kill bees using pesticides We'll just say about that Because then we can't do any crop production without pesticides Most of the crops are fed to animals for animal agriculture So we minimise death as much as possible Most of the world's crops 50% of the world's crops Of the world's crops? I'll get my dissertation up on the email where I have a valid reference on the journal So 80% of the crops are coming going to humans? Yes In the world? Not for humans, 20% for animal feed That's exceeding bioproduction of things like Is that worldwide? Yes Well I've got a different number than that If you'll put a source and a reference to it they need a lot more calories than we do They need a lot more water, a lot more land What you need to be doing instead of demoting this I'm promoting this You just said you're demoting that Exactly This is disgusting It's a lie It's a humane lie I'm not delusional bro This is reality This is reality This is a red tractor approved farm If you can provide reliable facts and not compete your rationality And also I have not agreed to film This is a public space my friend You come up and talk to me If I see it online you'll be hearing from others What's your name sorry? Sorry, what's your name? What's your name? My name's Joey Yeah I know Yeah I'm an activist dude I don't care what you think I don't care what you think I appreciate the conversation about ethics But this is a public space I see it online You can do that This is from Australia But they kill him in the UK like this as well I chuck him in this chamber He said it's ethical He said I'm delusional for thinking that's You can smell death and animals are more aware of it than people who tend to realise Yeah I mean You're trying to justify that and then they put this stamp of approval on it and people think they're getting something that's a lot different to what it actually is Do you want to try These are vegan so there's no animal products in them They're the new ones Pierce Morgan spat it out he said get it away from me Oh really? I think he's just being difficult It's all controversial isn't it? No! I'm with you on the people should He be trying to reduce death in this planet I mean reduce suffering and unjustified harm in any way form possible Everyone's entitled to a life on this planet To argue that it should be done is just I mean trying to justify this in the face of what's going on to these animals I just don't see why I'm delusional here Like I think their argument was that it's a particular insect too so that it's justified to do what we do to animals for like an unnecessary product They're focusing on the kids at the moment but you know this is because this is a meat breed They're keeping it simple really Yeah well I'm promoting their vegan products and telling people to avoid you know the violence It's just keeping it simple It doesn't need to be dragged out to the insects Yeah and like obviously I don't try to deliberately kill every insect I see It's one step at a time isn't it Only one can move forward It's just by hitting right here and then there's a lot more to be done This is just to try to practice what it has to become This is land of hope and glory This is all British farms and abattoirs Okay and this is Yeah on YouTube I've got my glasses on me So that's a vegan challenge on the back Thank you Do you think any of these people have seen the slaughterhouse like they're buying? Yeah No I don't and as you say they just see a label saying it's been assured it makes them feel better to think that these animals had a wonderful lie Yeah they've been eating flags They see the green pasture on the label That's what it promotes and they don't see this No of course they don't They haven't seen like the gas chambers They haven't seen they're all curing up because they feel what's coming I truly believe they feel it They know when the farmers are bringing them in they can smell good That's why they have to use an electric prod Yeah they don't want to go in They know they're going in there to die Yeah No it is We'll see what the future holds Thanks brother Check out those links Can I try the sausage job? Here I mean people don't know that there's a like really what's the difference between mincing up a pig into that you're not really going to taste the difference Come on And who knows what parts of the pigs they use I don't even go there I think most rational compassionate people can look at this and be in agreement even if they consume the products they can say well that's not right They're lovely Oh they're good I don't know what Pierce Morgan was talking about He's an argumentative f***er Yeah