 Hello, I'm Catherine Bell, Editor-in-Chief of Quartz, the Global Business and Economics website, and I'm delighted to welcome everyone today to join us from around the world to talk about very important topic of how LGBTI people have been disproportionately affected by the COVID-19 crisis and how governments and businesses and civil society can support and protect LGBTI communities both during the crisis and later during the recovery. So we're going to spend the first half hour of today's session discussing why LGBTI communities are particularly vulnerable in some of the same ways as other marginalized communities and in some specific and different ways. Examples of actions, businesses and governments and other organizations have already taken to address the issue and support our communities and also importantly what still needs to be done. So after our first half hour of panel discussion we're going to split up into three breakout groups and in those we'll talk about the different aspects of the issue, three different topics and then come back together to share the highlights of those discussions and talk about potential next steps governments and organizations can take. So I'd like to start by welcoming our panelists. First, Lori George Billings-Lee is Global Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer at the Coca-Cola Company and she's joining us this morning from Atlanta. Andre Duplessy is Executive Director at ILGA, the International Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans and Intersex Association based in Geneva. Jessica Stern is here in New York like me and she is the Executive Director of Outright Action International and Victor Madrigal Borlos is the UN independent expert on sexual orientation and gender identity. He is also a senior visiting researcher at Harvard Law School's Human Rights Program. So thank you very much Lori, Andre, Jessica and Victor for the important work you are all doing and for taking the time to share your thoughts with us today. So before we start our panel I'd like to talk very briefly about the breakout sessions that we'll be having later in the morning or the afternoon or evening wherever you are and I'd like you to start if you'll be staying with us for those groups. I'd like you to start by thinking about which group you'd like to join and so I'll tell you a little bit about those groups. Group one led by Jessica will discuss Access to Health Services. Group two led by Andre and Victor will talk about how to fight against stigmatization, violence and human rights violations and group three will focus on the private sector and discuss strengthening work and social protection. That discussion will be led by Lori and also Alexander Hamelberg who is the International Advocacy Officer at COC Netherlands which I just learned is the oldest LGBT organization in the world. So please think about which which group you'd like to join and when you've decided please rename yourself in Zoom there are instructions on the screen with the number of the group at the beginning of your name and that will allow our organizers to sort us all into the right groups. So I'd like to launch the panel by beginning talking about the outsized impact COVID-19 has had on LGBTI communities around the world. We'll talk a bit about why that's true, why these communities are particularly vulnerable and what in particular those those impacts have been so far what people have been seeing. A lot of organizations have worked very quickly in recent months to do a lot of research on this topic and so we're learning fast and we have representatives of some of those organizations here with us today. So Victor I'd like to start with you and thinking in the broadest sense about what the impact has been and why and you know from a human rights perspective what is happening and and also to tell us a little bit about the UN report on the impact on LGBTI communities that you've worked on. Of course good morning, good afternoon, good evening. It's thank you very much Catherine and hello to everyone who's joining us on this panel. I think that it's a common experience to all to remember that around March of this year when the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a pandemic we all understood that it was going to be an extraordinary set of events that were going to unfold in very many ways unprecedented and the reality is that because of its scale and because of the scale of the measures that were taken to respond and to in some places recover from those measures we were learning very much on the go. We knew however that we had reasonable assumptions that during this type of situations there is usually an escalation of risk of violence, an escalation of risk of discrimination and also of hate speech and incitement to violence and discrimination and in fact this very early on proved to be the case when we were gathering information in relation to these issues and you will hear from organizations that are in the panel today who did brilliant work at actually responding fast to the gathering of evidence. I wonder however to mention a couple of things at the outset first there is a vigorous legal framework in place when it comes to exceptional situations whereas human rights machineries at United Nations recognize that the use of emergency powers may be required in some circumstances it is always the case that the measures adopted must be proportionate necessary and non-discriminatory that is what we could call the first level of the framework. We need to ensure that there's always a link between the measure adopted and the objective sort the necessity of the measure in itself and the non-discriminatory aspect of its implementation this is fundamental and secondly within this framework there is also a human rights based approach as you will recall the secretary general of the UN requested that human rights be placed at the core of any COVID response and the human rights based approach very early on we learned consisted of ensuring that the principles of non-discrimination participation accountability and empowered be respected and through the course of this conversation what I hope that we're able to do is to actually match that framework with the realities experienced in the context of COVID-19 my findings which I have encapsulated in my next report to the General Assembly of the UN which I will present in October on October 29th in the General Assembly's third committee is that we have three areas of concern first measures that were aimed at discriminating or persecuting and were adopted using the pandemic as an excuse second measures that because of their design they they deployed discriminatory impact even though that was not their purpose and third the fact that LGBT people do not come to the pandemic on a level playing field because of having been historically subjected to discrimination they come to the pandemic represented disproportionately in the ranks of the poor those with outcomes on health employment and economic empowerment that are lower than the general of the population that is a really clear set of impacts that make so much sense and I'm and that's a great opening for us speaking thinking about it in those those three terms um Jessica outright has also done a global research study on on the impacts that the LGBTI community have felt and can you tell us what what that research has found about why these communities are particularly vulnerable and and specifically how they've been disproportionately harmed around the world I'm happy to Catherine can you hear me properly yes thank you okay excellent well thank you everyone for joining us today we're a small but mighty group and I think you know the the test of having a good conversation is not how many people join but how much energy we bring to it and so I'm really glad there's so many people that care here today day outright understood at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic that we were at grave risk of seeing heightened vulnerability increased sickness and even increased death for LGBTIQ people dealing with COVID because of the historical pattern of how LGBTIQ people have fallen through the gaps of humanitarian response public health emergencies and crises in general and it makes sense when you think about it some of the main institutions that organize resources in times of mass crisis are of course governments but if you live in a country that criminalizes homosexuality or doesn't recognize your gender identity whether it's in law or de facto discrimination then you're not going to feel comfortable turning to your government even if there's a public health crisis it's just simple beyond that we know that some of the main organizations that provide emergency emergency relief services are of course religiously based charities and again if your local religious institution is not open and affirming as it should be then you might not feel safe turning to them even for emergency food relief and so with these concerns in mind outright undertook a global research report called vulnerability amplified the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on LGBTIQ communities worldwide and the idea was to sound the alarm early before the crisis hit so that we could prevent disaster as much as possible and what we did was we asked 59 LGBTIQ leaders from 38 countries in every region of the world tell us what you're afraid of and tell governments and media and multilateral institutions what interventions are going to be necessary to prevent catastrophe and I'm really happy to say that they did and if you look at the report you'll see there are seven core findings which I'll just really quickly summarize now devastation of livelihoods and food insecurity one disruptions in access to health care two increased domestic violence three decreased mental health four increased scapegoating discrimination and violence five increased state abuse of power six and anxiety about organizational survival seven quite clear and I'll just wrap up by saying that we know that the the solution lies in an evidence-based approach so we heard from LGBTIQ community leaders and they told us these are the areas where our community is vulnerable and that information enables those of us in the private sector in the NGO world in the multilateral sector to direct urgent interventions where our community is most vulnerable so even though our findings are grave they also give us hope because they provide a roadmap of where to go thank you Jessica so it it's I'd love to hear we have a couple more minutes before we need to turn to the next question and I'd love to hear a few more of the of concrete examples of maybe even you know stories of of places where you've seen really intense impacts and especially where the LGBTI community overlaps with other marginalized communities so LGBTI people of color for example or you know migrants like whatever other groups where the the the problems are even more intense and they were in this country the homeless population among young homeless people is very disproportionately people who identify as LGBT and so I'd love to hear any more stories you have about that that came out about those groups and and also if anything surprised you that's a great question Catherine thank you for that um to Catherine's point what we keep saying about crisis response is that those who were most vulnerable before the crisis continue to be vulnerable during the crisis and can without urgent interventions slip even further through the cracks so that's people that are discriminated against based on the color of their skin their faith their sexual orientation of gender identity their status as migrants there's a continuum um and you know the opportunity we all have is of course to build back better but what we saw in the early days of the crisis is that people from the LGBTI Q community were really suffering and I'll give you two examples Catherine one example comes from from Manila in the Philippines um and when we were doing research for vulnerability amplified we interviewed a woman in a lesbian couple and we asked how are things fairing for you and she said well actually it's been quite difficult because food distribution is happening at the local municipal level because so many of us no longer have access to our regular livelihoods and income so I went there um to get food for my wife and myself and I was turned away and I was asked why are you I asked why are you turning me away and they said this is food distribution for families and you don't count right so that's the kind of thing we hear and there's another story that just really breaks my heart because it it tugs on the heart strings in literal and metaphorical ways and it comes from Raise Your Voice St. Lucia another organization that we interviewed for our report and Raise Your Voice was providing emergency mental health services for people who found themselves in crisis because of COVID and you know people were isolated they were losing their jobs LGBTI Q people were cut off from some of the community institutions that we depend on and were forced off and live at home with families that may or may not accept us and our sexualities and genders and they said they were getting calls from community members who would literally take the phone into the closet so they could call privately to seek mental health services so no one would hear what they were calling about so that those are the kinds of stories that just motivate us to do more yeah but that's really devastating and I mean your last point about what you found in the study I think is something that we're going to see more and more which is that the organization it's not just individuals and communities that are hit but the organizations supporting those communities are also being hard hit and that that just adds to the problem and is obviously something that we should be working towards solving so with that let's turn to start talking about what actually works to make things better for people so I'd like to begin by talking about what is has already been happening and and what has been showing signs of working or that we know works from other crises so Laurie let's start with you so part of what we want to focus on here is not just governments and civil society but the private sector and the business world and what what we can be doing to support these communities and the other organizations working to support them um so I'd love to hear of um examples of company policies and programs that you've encountered and seen work to support LGBTI people in the workforce where they have often um you know even in um advanced economies um not a lot of protections often um in response to COVID-19. Pleasure to be with you all today as you've heard from the other panelists we all know that COVID-19 pandemic has impacted individuals in every country around the world and that minority and underserved communities in particular have been disproportionately affected in many ways and as community amenities and facilities have closed due to lockdown and social distancing regulations many LGBTI people have lost connection to their community I mean Jessica just spoke to this with those powerful examples that she gave so we know that buildings of isolation anxiety and depression are on the rise universally and support groups which specifically service the LGBTI community are becoming harder to access so at Coca-Cola our LGBTQA business resource group has embraced the move to virtual work and has established an active online presence using our digital workplace tools such as Yammer which is basically Facebook for work community members use the platform to share resources and events and to contribute to an inclusive community to ensure that we continue to encourage people to bring their whole selves to work during this very unusual time the LGBTI group also exists to foster an equitable and inclusive and engaging work environment where employees are valued for their contributions to the business and are free to participate fully without fear of reprisals or discrimination of any kind in fact this group has been active within the company for almost 15 years and continues to ensure that we're providing an equal and inclusive work environment we also know that as medical resources and we heard a little bit about this have been reprioritized to address the ongoing pandemic access to much needed health facilities and services for the LGBTI community have been increasingly difficult to access we also know that LGBTI people may be particularly vulnerable during the COVID-19 pandemic as those living with compromised immune systems including some persons living with HIV AIDS face a greater risk from COVID-19 so our system the Coca-Cola system including our foundation has pledged more than a hundred million dollars to support COVID-19 relief efforts in communities for all people around the world and we've actually taken immediate actions to address health and other needs to help lessen the burden on strained health systems around the world you also asked Catherine about some of the policies that we have in place within our company and so in 2011 our company began offering transgender inclusive health insurance coverage and in 2015 we began assisting with the cost of taxes imposed on eligible U.S. employees whose same sex partner or spouse was enrolled in health benefits and who lived in the states that did not recognize same sex marriage and the last thing I'll mention is we've also used our voice publicly to support policy changes such as marriage equality and have invested our marketing muscle in partnership with NGOs including campaigns like the love campaign in Australia so those are a few things that we've been doing to address this issue you're on mute thank you if you were to give advice to a company that had not taken as many steps yet and given the urgency of the pandemic what would you say is the first step that businesses should take yeah the first thing I would say is and it's and it's what we've been doing with all of the you know the recent social unrest that's been happening around the world is really listened we've been doing listening sessions with our employees to understand what's important to them what actions they're recommending that we should take and then actioning against some of those recommendations so you know for example we've received over 500 suggestions on things that we can be doing around the world in support of social justice including things that are impacting LGBTI communities and so we've really been listening not only to employees but also stakeholders and partners and understanding what are the things that they feel are important that we can then get behind and advocate for so I would say start by listening and then don't just listen but actually let your actions speak louder than your words thank you so Andre I'd like to turn to you to talk about how how the private sector and LGBTI communities can partner in response to the pandemic and and what you've seen work there yeah thank you thank you very much Catherine I think just at the outset just kind of acknowledge that the huge outpouring of support by so many companies at the start of lockdown and COVID-19 epidemic and there's a huge thank you I think we've seen amazing examples of that I think probably Jessica's going to mention some of that as well in the work that outright has been doing there with PGLE I think we've also seen companies leveraging their social media impact as well to kind of call out sometimes the way that we've been scapegoated as communities for COVID-19 Jessica also raised the story of the lesbian couple in the Philippines and being told that you're not a family I think one thing we've seen in in COVID-19 is companies often creatively at the last minute discovering new policies or at least implementing family leave policies which are more open I think actually it was I saw an article by Human Rights Campaign I see Fonzers on the call here where Mass Mutual had it open to their employees to define who their loved ones were going to be because everyone was using you know this kind of loved ones or family paid leave and then actually what I think that's great about that is it's a policy which doesn't work just for queer people but it actually is good for all people and I think that that's something which is really important in any of the the responses that are happening we have seen occasionally people saying well why are you queer people trying to claim that you're the most marginalized and we try to never use that word because the whole level of marginalization how do we even possibly compare but actually finding solutions that work for the entirety of the population but also address our needs is so important in that so I think that was a really great example of that there's also I think a great example we saw down in Brazil Transembregos which is like a trans job platform this is a moment I think when trans people in Brazil are particularly being excluded from being able to get jobs in normal in normal times so this is an entire job vacancy platform and there's training and finding matching jobs and they did that even throughout COVID-19 times to make sure that there was employment happening there and they started to partner with some kind of you know big fortune 500 companies as well to kind of provide support there which if you just give me just a few more seconds to say I think that's the piece where we don't have enough information is the informal sector I think huge parts of the LGBTI community are those working in that informal sector where whether it's people working as domestic workers or it's tourism industry which has been annihilated in so many countries so we don't actually have yet a lot of good examples there but we are going to be doing a collaborative study with groups I'm glad the outright's on board for example with us we're working on some of that which shows like the longer-term impacts and I think how business has responded as part of the solution is going to be a big part of what we find there and I know when we're going to break out groups I'd like to hear more from other people who've got great examples of how business has done this thanks that's a great point about the informal sector and I would add the gig economy in there too which is sort of crosses those boundaries where it's run by powerful corporations but where the people working there don't have the protections they need so Jessica as Andre mentioned I know this is something that your organization has been working on as well so can you tell us a little bit about what you've learned from the COVID-19 global LGBTIQ emergency fund that outright launched in partnership with the partnership for global LGBTI equality thanks so much Catherine Catherine is referencing outright's COVID LGBTIQ emergency funds which we started pretty early in the pandemic and I remember meeting with my colleagues and saying to one another you know we know there's going to be need we don't know how severe it's going to be we don't know what regions will experience the crisis worse but let's try let's do something and when when we've done emergency fundraisers like this in the past we've set out to raise you know 10 or 20 thousand dollars and that 10 or 20 thousand dollars has been an essential infusion of support but there was so much compassion and so much sort of collective rage and grief about how LGBTIQ people were falling through the cracks of this pandemic that I'm really happy to report that outright raised 1.2 million dollars for our COVID emergency funds and you can like sing or dance in your seat a little bit like this is not a normal thing that during a crisis that people turn and think about others but it was really wonderful because it enabled us to distribute grants to grassroots LGBTIQ organizations in countries around the world grants that started as small as 25 hundred dollars and went as high as 10 thousand dollars and you might be thinking to yourself you know what's 25 hundred dollars what's 10 thousand dollars but actually when people are going hungry that can mean the difference between life and death and so outright has distributed over 100 grants so far and we're just about to initiate our our fourth round of of grant making which is great but you know the sober fact is that outright received an avalanche of funding requests and 57 percent of those that contacted us were asking for emergency food relief and I get chills just saying that it makes me so heart sick to realize that that was the immediate reaction of our community to a public health crisis was to go hungry and it speaks to the importance of the world economic forum and the kind of intersectional work your members are doing because if LGBTIQ people don't have access to strong and sustainable livelihoods we're forced into the informal labor market and when there's an economic crisis guess what we don't have any reserves we don't have reserves for food for shelter or for health care and I want to make another point that I think you and Andre were both alluding to which is the destabilization of LGBTIQ organizations if the first wave looked like food scarcity then my fear is that the second wave will look like the destabilization of the LGBTIQ movement globally right we depend on charitable contributions in all forms I'm looking at Sarah K. who's on the line we're in a group of LGBT executive directors and we're all like how are we going to sustain our organizations when people are suffering financially and the thing I want our listeners to realize is that LGBTIQ organizations are essential workers in our communities right now that is what we do so we can't afford to lose our community-based organizations because that will have a spillover across the community and I'll just say with regard to what companies can and can do and have done there's so much I echo everything Andre said outright was fortunate to receive contributions from 13 companies to our COVID emergency funds but the contributions came in many different forms some companies made financial contributions for which we are enormously grateful a lot of companies volunteered to review the applications that came in from grassroots LGBTIQ organizations that kind of volunteer support matters when you're trying to distribute resources very fast and a number of companies turn to their platforms for public education and you know I don't know if you caught but there was this thing called legal recognition of their gender identity based on an assumed connection with the pandemic this is absolutely absurd because we all know that in situations of emergency conformity of a person's gender expression with their documents is an essential element of access to the most basic of services which in many cases are life-saving so how the connection gets drawn as to this being the moment where legal recognition is backtracked and in fact to deny is quite mind-boggling to me and I'm on the public record as actually expressing concern by this measure I also would would like to bring another example known to to many in this call which is for example the raid on a homeless shelter near Kampala in Uganda you mentioned Catherine the particular reality of overrepresentation of LGBT persons within the homeless population and clearly of LGBT youth within the homeless population and yet this is the moment where local authorities choose to carry out a raid in a homeless shelter and for the first 24 hours specifically saying that it was because of the fact that homosexual persons were lodged there as soon as this is perceived as a something that gets in the media being discussed then the narrative changes and the state says oh no it's because actually particular rules of COVID-19 were broken and then I established an interlocution with the state and I asked to obtain information as to how many other raids had been carried out in relation to this issue and it turned out that none not even one single one which in my view creates a situation of high suspicion of persecution under the excuse of the pandemic so this is the first area where I think we need to be very mindful and unfortunately given the connection that many political and religious figures have tended to draw between the pandemic and LGBT rights the idea that is being proponent in some public discourse that the pandemic was a response to gay marriage existing in certain jurisdiction or to the very existence of LGBT persons hatred and discrimination is something that actually we have seen an exacerbation of so that first line is there and it needs to be very much the work of states to actually not carry out those actions in the first place but also to ensure that its agents are protecting LGBT persons from such persecution and that organizations of the civil society are supported in their monitoring work in relation to this so that's a first line a second line needs to be about ensuring that there is good knowledge good evidence base in the design of pandemic response and recovery an example that comes readily to mind is the fact that in certain countries in Latin America they were gender based quarantines designed the logic being that you could actually divide the population in two if you said that males came out on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays and females on Tuesdays Thursdays and Saturdays well guess what it turns out that gender dynamics are at play in a very vigorous way and women are disproportionately represented in the ranks of those that actually carry out all of the errands of households in Latin America so it basically turned out that you had empty streets on three days of the week and very full on the other days but most importantly it also turned out that gender diverse persons were effectively prevented from being on the streets unless they were in a context of full recognition of their gender expression which is of course not the general rule in Latin America that's a policy which one could argue was not designed with an insidious or discriminatory intent but because it was designed without knowledge of the community it actually deployed a discriminatory impact in reality and one that was very real for many trans persons who were not able to actually go out and procure their medical goods for example or if they were they were subjected to horrible humiliation in cases that we've heard about and then you have the third great realm the third great realm is that of the great the great asymmetry in which people have come to this pandemic Jessica, Andrea, Lori all of them have identified the issue that people are not coming to this pandemic in a level playing field how do you react to a situation of shutdown when you don't have a home to lock yourself in but how do you react to that situation when you don't have any savings or access to credit at all and where you're actually the the money that you have is the one that you have in your pocket and when that's gone that's gone so creating solutions building back better understanding the situation of disparity in which many LGBT people come of exclusion from health employment education housing structural exclusion understanding those parameters seeing the pandemic not as a cause of its own but as a magnifying glass of inequality as my colleague Hela Leval has said and I cite her constantly COVID-19 is inequality in steroids it's nothing but a magnifying glass on inequality so to this end I have identified a framework that I will allude in concluding very quickly is the Aspire framework Aspire is both a call for aspiring to the very best that we can perform with and also a mnemonic device it stands for what I think needs to be state led response and recovery from COVID-19 and it stands for acknowledge that LGBT people are everywhere and that they are a valuable part of the social fabric support LGBT organizations and organizations supporting the lives of LGBT persons protect LGBT people from discrimination and persecution indirect discrimination is a real risk bring it to your risk assessment methodology at the outset representation is key you need to have LGBT voices at the table in compliance of the of the principle of nothing about us without us and finally evidence needs to be procured all COVID-19's response and recovery needs to be evidence-based rather than prejudice and opinion based on the basis of this I am actually monitoring state response and I have communicated the Aspire framework to all member states of the United Nations the inputs to my report were given in the key of Aspire I am very glad to report that over 180 inputs for my report were received many of them from states and hopefully we will be able to not only learn lessons from this but actually understand how to create the work of building back better in a situation that addresses these inequalities for our communities populations and peoples but also for all other communities populations and peoples that have been historically subjected to discrimination thank you for that Victor that's a framework that seems like it would apply just as well to civil society and the private sector as well speaking of which Laurie I'd like to go to you quickly to talk about what businesses should be thinking about now in terms of redesigning their policies and structures to to ensure more workplace equality in this context sure well first I feel like all businesses need to adopt Victor's Aspire framework that was pretty powerful I'll just start by saying quickly that you know we're proud to be one of the founding members of the Partnership for Global LGBTI Equality PGLE which was announced at the World Economic Forum's annual meeting last year in Davos Switzerland I see Dan Bross on the call who was instrumental in getting PGLE off the ground I have the privilege of representing our company on the PGLE and I continue to encourage other companies to join PGLE to help advance its work I think that's something that's very critical that companies can do companies obviously have an important role to play to foster diversity inclusion and promote a culture of respect equality and belonging and we know that together we have enormous convening power to do good things and that when corporations work together with civil society we can ensure that we protect our most vulnerable communities as already shared by Jessica in response to the severe impact of COVID-19 on LGBTI communities around the world the COVID-19 global LGBTI emergency fund was founded and supports organizations and groups on the front lines so these types of partnerships that are addressing issues on the front line of the pandemic are bringing together stakeholders from various industries and sectors that have immense power to bring about protections for the LGBTI community also more broadly for all vulnerable communities throughout the COVID-19 pandemic by addressing a range of humanitarian needs such as emergency food and shelter access to safe and competent health care safety and security and financial stability so companies can play a very large role by again using their convening power by advocating for some of these very critical issues and providing not only monetary support but support of their associates lending their voices and expanding to their networks to volunteerism and other acts so just a few quick examples. Thank you Laurie so I'd like to end the session by turning back to Andre and at the very beginning Victor talked about human rights as a as a structure for thinking about this issue in particular with the LGBTI community and I'd love to hear based on your perspective how you think about human rights as a structure that can help the private sector both itself and in partnership with other organizations to think about how to respond. Thanks I also know that we want to go into a breakout session so I'm going to keep that a little bit short I think actually thank you this framework has been said so I'm going to go a slightly different direction those of you who know me know I have a habit of going to church occasionally and one day I came out of church early on in the pandemic and someone said to me Andre COVID-19 this is the apocalypse and at first I went is it really like what's going on and then someone said to me you know apocalyptic literature is actually a form it literally means an uncovering and I think is what we're hearing all the time is that what we're seeing during COVID-19 is literally just an uncovering it's these disastrous times literally show the systemic problems that were there beforehand that's what we're hearing time and time and time again and we're having great resets we're having built back stronger we're having all these beautiful and very important conversations right now but we need to make sure that those are real conversations that when we click the reset button we don't reset back to January 2020 that we're actually resetting into the new operating system the new future that we actually want this is a moment this is true for queer people but it's true for everybody on this planet and one thing we did notice and continue to notice during this pandemic time is that we are intricately linked with other people who are being marginalized new groups that we never thought would be marginalized we're discovering and we're seeing whole things of our society that are ugly and need to change but we have hope and there are places and I think corporations are a huge part of that so this is actually a moment for us to have a serious discussion how are we going to readdress power and how are we going to readdress inclusion like never before Thank you very much for that point and I think it's so true that this is a time where we have no choice but to start addressing the root causes of what's happening not just the current crisis so thank you again to all of our panelists for your thoughts and experience and evidence that you've been bringing and I'm really looking forward to the breakout sessions and to coming back together to talk about those conversations so I'd also like to thank everybody this is the end of the of the live stream on the web and so I'd like to thank everybody who joined us